New Budget GPU, Looks Like A CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 8700G Review

[@johnv3372]

Loved that you compared it to the performance of discrete cpu/gpu combos from a value perspective.

[@madlad4206]

I mean that’s the obvious comparison, nothing game changing

[@arbpaninken6719]

Quite a distracting comparison though as the sole purpose of these APUs is because you don't want or have the space for a CPU and dGPU. The dGPU in question here is still sizeable (6500XT)

[@UserOfTheName]

​@@arbpaninken6719That's not the "sole purpose" The point of these is for budget gaming, 99 percent of people have room for a dGPU

[@maximusraven9972]

But for countries with expensive electric bill, APUs in the long run saves a lot of money.

[@Nauda999]

@@ionutpogacean there are reviews that include these, but obviously most if not all dGPU have higher power usage than 8700G. 8700G power under load is 60-90W, an entry level card like RTX 3050 has 130W.

[@GearSeekers]

That iGPU performance is pretty incredible on its own but I can agree on how weird it is overall.

[@akunmapkah586]

And price...

[@tuanld91]

It's not that weird. I think AMD wouldn't want the APU to kill their entry-level GPU. This APU obviously targets niche ultra-compact ITX user.

[@laden6675]

They should just put these in regular CPUs as integrated graphics, not separate G series

[@lycanthoss]

​@@tuanld91of course AMD doesn't want to harm their budget GPUs, but that is not the reason for this pricing/performance. It is simply a matter of fact that discrete GPUs will always be faster than integrated ones, because discrete GPUs have higher bandwidth memory, bigger dies and a cooling solution that is not shared with the CPU. And the price isn't going to be much better either, because manufacturing a single large die vs 2 small dies is more expensive, though the die cost isn't as significant as manufacturing the whole PCB and everything else for the GPU. Basically, APUs are never the best value unless for some reason CPU prices are okay, but discrete GPU prices are absolutely horrible (sounds familiar 😊) or you are in a niche situation where you absolutely cannot use a dGPU.

[@AnotherComment-rl6fv]

Great product wrong timing, if this existed during crypto GPU crunch it would be out of stock 24x7

[@nekogami87]

The first use case I'd see is a streaming PC since it can encode AV1 on hardware directly. Also, It kind of seems nice for a development focused PC.

[@gadgetcritic]

Wdym encode AV1 on hardware directly ? Please elaborate.

[@Voyajer.]

@@gadgetcritic probably as opposed to software encoding AV1 which will load your cpu down while being slower.

[@mar2ck_]

​@@gadgetcriticRDNA 3 has hardware AV1 video encoding. AV1 is very intense on CPU so being able to encode on the GPU instead speeds things up massively.

[@MoChuang343]

Yeah but if you just want the encoders, then grab the 8500G for almost half the price.

[@Khloya69]

Having a separate streaming pc in 2024 is stupid.

[@Blinker18]

The improvement in iGPU performance is very impressive.

[@anasevi9456]

yeah, but typical 2020s AMD business acumen; or lack there of, hobbles the product once again. Utterly certain AMD could have made a tidy profit on the 8700G for $100 less or more... and that would have put all the other options to bed beyond scouring for used deals. Sucks because 8700G is the first 'renders low end dGPUs pointless' iGPU since AMD launched the monster Llanos way back in 2011, and those actually mopped up in the htpc and laptop market because they brought value too.

[@GhostAcez]

Eh it is but also it's not. It's impressive that this igpu performs so much better than the Vega igpus of the past. But it's not impressive that they are just reusing the mobile igpus that have been out on laptops, mini pcs, PC handhelds like the ROG Ally for a year or so now. Would've personally been more impressed if they would have at least developed a new igpu for this instead of just slapping an old one in and charging a premium for it.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

​@@GhostAcezeven if they add more beefier gpu it will be hampered big by bandwidth. Even if you got DDR5 10,000mhz the bandwidth provided is still pale in comparison to memory used by low end GPU.

[@rcavicchijr]

​@@GhostAcez Why would they spend heaps of cash on an entirely new tapeout and waste capacity on such a niche segment, when strix and strix halo are right around the corner? This product is just a way to sell off dies that couldn't go into mobile now that hawkpoint is out, and strix is close. What they need is more foundry capacity so they can release the desktop and laptop APU's closer together, and guarantee volume to OEMs so they will invest in premium amd laptop designs.

[@rcavicchijr]

​@@anasevi9456 I don't think the problem is the price on this model. I think it's segmenting the igpu along with the cpu for the lower end models. The igpu is the main selling point of an apu, so why cut it down to 1/3 in the lowest model? They could have atleast kept 12 cu's for the 6 core, then used 8 for the 4 core. These have high enough yields I doubt they would ever have to actually cut more than 4cus from defects.

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

I'd love to see an APU memory scaling benchmark with DDR5 6000, 6400, 7200, dual vs single rank, tuned etc.

[@siralex0encmoz]

also normalize escape from tarkov on streets of tarkov for memory testing, since it is that sort of the game that can "eat" ~30-35GB of ram. edit misremembered numbers.

[@racistpandagod]

@@siralex0encmoz jesus 30 gigs is a lot for a game to eat up

[@xfy123]

​@@racistpandagodthat's the average unity dev that doesn't know how c# works. It dumps the same amount as ram into the page file also for some arbitrary reason.

[@concinnus]

The speeds scaling is here @ 9:00 Dual-rank vs single: just don't use 8GiB sticks or a single stick, otherwise it doesn't matter Tuning is a huge ask. But if Buildzoid/AHO comes up with some 8*00G settings, HUB can use those as they have in the past.

[@jochenkraus7016]

​​@@concinnusJust started the video. Interesting CPU/GPU :-) Edit: Quite sobering when you look at the price. Let's see how much slower the GPU of the 8600G is. Unfortunately AMD gave it 8 units instead of 10 or even leaving it at 12 :-(

[@needles_balloon]

There's probably some countries where the i3 + 6600 combo costs much more than the 8700G, and historically that's where sales of the G series has been targeted. LowSpecGamer used to do vids for this purpose. For the US and similarly priced markets, the 8700G is probably aimed mostly to be a home theater PC or for an ultra compact case like you mentioned.

[@BlackJesus8463]

no

[@stranger01422]

Yeah a lot of countries in southeast asia have very high GPU Prices. So, A G series APU is really good value especially after they fall in price in 1 year and also a lot of these countries don't have good second hand markets Too. But Steve's views are very Western Focused

[@jonjon3829]

1700 is dead, by the time a person with an i3 + 6600 decided to upgrade getting a new cpu will be more expensive than they cost today.

[@jment34]

I am not from the US and you are correct. I think the real value will be the 8600G.

[@KatamuroTheFirst]

also people who buy piecemeal. So they could get the 8700g, still be able to play some games for now until they get another $300-400 for a gpu.

[@ilnabboditurno1433]

Immense job Steve, love the effort that you put in this review!

[@thegreatTBA]

Jobs steve

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

40 fps phantom liberty at 1080p low is insane. We're past last-gen console performance now, which is crazy

[@dragonl4d216]

Nothing impressive. Last gen consoles had the performance of an entry level gaming pc 10 years ago. (Roughly equivalent to a pc with a FX8120 and 750Ti)

[@Skazzy3YT]

@@dragonl4d216 citation needed

[@fica1137]

PS4 is half the price these days

[@Salty_Nutella]

@@fica1137 even disregarding the performance comparison, a ps4 is still a ps4. I'd go for a PC for it's other capabilities.

[@dragonl4d216]

@@Skazzy3YT The PS4 is built on a custom AMD APU which on Sony's playstation website list its technical specs as 8 jaguar cores @1.6ghz base and 1.84 Tflops GPU. If you do more research on the GPU, you can see that it is based on the GCN 2.0 architecture (techpowerup). The HD7850 is also built on the GCN 2.0 architecture and has 1.76 TFlops while the HD7870 has 2.56 Tflops, thus the PS4 GPU is between a HD7850 and HD7870 in terms of garphic computing performance with it falling much closer to the HD7850. The Nvidia equivalent in performance for the HD7870 for that time is the 750Ti, hence the PS4 is roughly equivalent to (or below) a 750Ti in graphic capabilities. As for CPU wise, 8 jaguar cores at 1.6ghz is laughable even for 2014 standard as jaguar cores were extremely weak compared to Intel cores; so much so that even Intel's Ivybridge duo core i3 is beating 8 jaguar cores.

[@DaJappasss]

Absolutely stoked seeing this performance in an iGPU! Yes cheap discrete combo's are better value but as a tech nerd these performance increases are really awesome to see! The one thing I'm left curious about is the difference in total system power consumption between the 8700G and I3+6600 combo. As a European this is something I have started really looking at with the current prices for power (undervolting ftw). Specially for some like an HTPC that will mainly just stream video instead of being used for gaming this is something I would do the math on before purchasing. Guess I'm one of this niche cases they were talking about :).

[@peterwstacey]

I'd also be interested in this for HTPC use, but I do wonder if it's TOO good (and hence expensive) for that. Would the 5600G also be good enough? Or is that missing some hardware decoders or something?

[@Eversor86]

@@peterwstacey I am actually one of those cases too. I barely game, and games I play at 1080p cause I don't care for bigger screen, run fine'ish. But my 2500k OCed with old GTX660, is quite power hungry, goes to like 200W easily on more heavy games, watching youtube is basically 100+W endeavour . I got an GTX 780 for free as an upgrade, and power consumption gone up in games if they can "push" more FPS than before. 5x00G from what I saw can give similar FPSes to 660, 8x00 is supposed to beat that easily and be even close to GTX 780 in some cases. Saw some tests on the net and people basically reported like 30/40/70W for idle/youtube/games on 5600G, thats like half of my 2500k+660 combo. If watching youtube/idling is like 70% of my computer usage, those APUs could be a better deal, even if I lose half the FPS compared to like 12100F+some-cheap-gpu combo. All hope in Steave from GN ;). They started to do a lot of power efficiency tests in CPU/GPU reviews, so I hope they will do an such tests on extensive side when reviewing those new APUs, especially after people liked their recent CPU power efficiency tests, and some early tries on GPU efficiency tests too.

[@ZackSNetwork]

@@Eversor86Seriously with a build that old and low end just buy a console.

[@Eversor86]

@@ZackSNetwork Well it was mid end when I bought it :). I thought about consoles like steam one, but in the long round the way I use my PC I am not sure I would want a console only, either I would need a docking station and a lot of stuff plugged into it, or still have a PC next to it. With how shitty low price this old brick of a PC is worth, selling it to make buying a console cheaper isn't really a viable option, thou with price of like 8700G and mobo/ram - its not really that much cheaper than just a console. Especially if I need to buy the faster more expensive ones and more of it (like 32GB vs 16GB which could suffice with a dGPU setup).

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

@@Eversor86 Definitely looking forward to that GN content~

[@zachsteiner]

This is the first review I’ve been excited to watch for a while! Been waiting for a new APU release. No more Vega but instead a modern GPU architecture. First desktop iGPU I’ve seen with actual playable performance. Of course it’s not worth it from a financial standpoint but still really cool.

[@StretchDattass]

Id say its worth it more in the long run, this will give you good enough 1080 low right now, next gen theyre doing a big range of APUs so zen 5 will likely be as big if not more of a performance jump than this was over Zen 3. Then you have the highish possibility of Zen 6 also being AM5 as well, which if it is, given the performance uplift it may get you to 1440p low by then..

[@jamzqool]

​@@StretchDattassit's gonna be bottlenecked by ddr5 bandwith, all modern dGPU use gddr6 for a reason

[@sihamhamda47]

@@StretchDattass The most exciting thing is a possibility about the Zen 5 "Strix Halo" desktop and mobile APUs that will released in the near future as well, that has a monster iGPU like in the PS5 (if it's real)

[@StretchDattass]

@@sihamhamda47 Strix Halo is legit, but it's currently being debated whether it will even be possible to fit on a socket.

[@gatocochino5594]

@@sihamhamda47Strix Halo has a quad channel memory bus, it can't be used in a AM5 socket motherboard.

[@MaTtRoSiTy]

While not really my kind of product, the performance in games is amazing considering what it is

[@BlackJesus8463]

Until you compare it to a 12100 and 6600 lol. then it looks like the terrible deal it really is.

[@robertt9342]

@@BlackJesus8463. Does the value of the deal negate the appreciation of the performance as an apu? This isn’t $ per frame comment.

[@xBinyWolf]

@@robertt9342 well, it always is because this is not a revolution since amd is capable of producing good apus since ps4. A wise man once said "there are no terrible products only terrible prices", even that disgrace of 6500xt if it was 60-80$ it would be awesome.

[@lolitaexpresspilot88]

no its not, as said above it gets destroyed by 12100f and 6600 for a much cheaper price, which is a shame

[@visitante-pc5zc]

In my socialist country, am5 is persistently expensive, mainly motheboard and ddr5. Therefore the 8700g would make 0 sense as a budget option, even if amd would slash its price. People here are better off buying am4 with a discrete gpu

[@riou_gg]

Just a suggestion: you should've compared total system power draw between 8700g bare and the 12100f+6600. The result would have been useful for establishments/businesses eg: internet cafes. Especially with countries with much more higher electric prices

[@AbhishekKumar-vx9ub]

The result is so obvious that the test is not worth doing.

[@quwarq]

Obvious binary result, but valuable data when given specific numbers.

[@riou_gg]

I think results are a bit different when comparing a variety of memory speeds? Cause i think if the gpu outputs more frames when having a higher clocked memory it consumes a tid more watts

[@baoquoc3710]

@@riou_gg even factoring in energy numbers, giving me a combo with RX6600 anyday.

[@riou_gg]

​@@baoquoc3710yeah but power consumption will be a big factor for large scale operations. But yeah if for personal use i would go for the 12100f+6600 combo anyday too

[@hflx]

I love the way you tested, this is not only about graphs but about use case. Cache is still very important, even for a entry level am5 system this is very complicated to find a use case... unless this AI thing is a monster at something...

[@StretchDattass]

heres your use case, have your main PC, the big one with all the big heavy parts, in another room, have the 8700G in your living room for general content and lighter gaming, and when you want to do heavier gaming you can steam link to your main PC to game without the noise of whatever components you have. then, when you travel, you unplug it from the wall and shove it in your bag to take with you for dacent AAA gaming and good lower tier gaming on the go, and in a year or 2 when the zen 5 APUs come out you have a cheap upgrade path, possibly also with Zen 6 but thats unconfirmed.

[@darthwiizius]

@@StretchDattass Exactly, staying in a hotel overnight? Plug one of these into the TV and game or surf, do some work etc. Be interesting to see what the upcoming 40CU part can do, should be great at 1080P I would think.

[@AhaOk2398]

​@@StretchDattass exactly, the work culture of a small PC with an iGPU only and power efficency will blow away the i3 and 6600 combo, not to mention you could build with it a really small case PC that you could potentially take on trips in your bag and plug into a TV in hotel for example... being able to play Cyberpunk on something like that in 30fps? that's almost current gen console level performance. You could also make a very nice machine for running indie games or retro games with great power efficency and quietness.

[@StretchDattass]

@darthwiizius I'm hyped for it too, but I've heard Strix Halo won't be a socketable chip. I hope they're wrong, cuz I'd love to see where it would land, but a lot of people seem to think it can't be done.

[@robertt9342]

@@StretchDattass. Follow-up question, doesn’t that just justify any APU and not just a 8700G? Does the streaming require that many cores or that strong of an igpu? It’s kind of like buying a 7900 for web browsing.

[@WilliamOwyong]

The 8700G would be something I'd buy as part of a starter PC for my kids as i can upgrade later with a decent discrete GPU but can take advantage of the low power consumption (ongoing costs) initially.

[@chrisnesbitt_jr]

Exactly! As soon as I saw those CS2 and Fortnite numbers I knew this could be a godsend for parents building starter PCs for their kids.

[@iku7630]

For a mini pc it seems nice enough (it's branded under 7840hs). I have seen one with 1tb storage, 32gb ram for about 550 euro and it has Oculink, so you could attach a GPU to it later. For a desktop build it is sadly just overpriced with all the other components also costing a lot. A basic mobo, ddr5 ram and cpu would set you back 550 euro easily. Then you still need to add storage, psu, case and perhaps a non stock cooler.

[@anneakhil]

Man i am a newbie so this cores and benchmarks stuff is new to me so i have a few questions ... can i use the r7 8700g just like a nornal pc i wont game i want a 2k pc setup so i will go with a 4070 ti super later when i save some money

[@NirreFirre]

I did exactly this with a 5600G (~3 years ago) that my now 13y old are saving up for a midrange RTX RX card (he's not into Fortnite anymore 😂) for CS2 etc

[@14Gappar]

​@@iku7630😊

[@KickButobski]

Congratulations Steve and all of you for 1 million! You've been a big part of me deciding to build a Ryzen 7600 based system coming from a 4770k!

[@jmporkbob]

main use case is really a low power system and/or a tiny pc with no room for a graphics card. but it's gotta be noted that the rx 6600 combo didnt cost that little on release, so someday when 8700G is discounted it could find its place.

[@FFXfever]

For those systems, there's Chinese boxes with a mobile 6600m inbuilt. In those cases, since nuc boxes are not upgradable anyways, there's no reason to use these. Plus, if you don't mind size, 7L itx cases can fit up to a dual slot gpu.

[@okene]

​@@FFXfeveryou're talking about the minisforum boxes. The ones with the 6600m are quite a bit larger than the ones with just an apu. That's something that has to be considered

[@big.atom37]

This CPU is a good choice for a small Linux machine.AMD graphic drivers for Linux are top tier and those 8 cores are quite convenient for occasional compilations.

[@darkkingastos4369]

And there might be some really cool AI tools that make use of the NUs soon as well.

[@КириллЗарипов-м9б]

@@darkkingastos4369 Don't buy promises. And speaking of this 16 TOPS, in AMD leaks the next generation has 40+. Microsoft also asks for a minimum of 40 for its future features. So by the time if software that uses them appears, there will be much better solutions.

[@zannare]

7840hs its a good choice for a small Linux pc(i bought one minipc at blackfriday on aliexpress at 430 euro) ..... its the same apu with just bit lower frequency , with 8700g u can make an NOT small pc .... i dont get the point of 8700g

[@Hugh_I]

Yeah was thinking the same. During the AM4 days I build two compact mini-ITX systems with Rembrandt and Cezanne APUs for Linux desktop usage. Pretty perfect low power systems for that use case to this day, even if you occasionally need some MT umpf. The opensource amdgpu drivers have worked flawlessly since day 1. These new APU sound like worthy successors for that particular type of system.

[@andersjjensen]

@@zannare You can make a small PC but not a micro PC. There are plenty of Mini-ITX boards and cases out there, and I'm personally going this route for my media center because previous experience has showed me that I always end up utilizing all the SATA ports eventually. Something like the Antec ISK110 VESA-U3 mounts to the VESA mounts on the back of the monitor (or in my case the TV) and at 22x22x8cm you can't exactly call it bulky. But obviously, if you're good with the CPU being soldered to the board, a NUC style machine will be smaller... and a whole heck of a lot more thermally constrained. There is no way you're going to get 150W out of a NUC sized computer without some absolutely *screaming* fans.

[@SHINYREDBULLETS]

Really interesting set of results!! Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce this :)

[@terr281]

Corporate IT worker, here. AutoCAD, etc. programs that (according to specs) require a GPU in a system, but... in reality... really need "just enough cores" and "a good clock processing speed"... are the target market for this chip for "engineering, small form factor, desktops... or even mid to higher end "desktop chip in a laptop" designs where a full GPU won't fit OR the company doesn't want to pay for every engineer to have a GPU. Also, the power usage per processing from the combined CPU and GPU in said situations matters when a company may have hundreds of said machines being used by employees all at the same time.

[@Loppy2u]

Music Production will be another case. With the much faster cores and stronger integrated graphics to easily handle those VST plugins. Silent mini music production workstation.

[@dubsessed9790]

I have office workers that try to run too many (or too high res) displays at work, but don't justify a dGpu... and this would definitely be a good fit for their use case.

[@chrisnesbitt_jr]

All my coworkers think they need to be able to run 4 screens at a time on their poor 7 year old laptops, or overworked mini-PCs. Then they want to come whining to me (the resident techie) when their performance shits the bed lol.

[@ArtifactSkyline]

@@chrisnesbitt_jr In all fairness, SFF PCs are all kinds of ridiculous now. You can get an HP Z2 with an upgradeable GPUs and K series CPUs and they are less than 3.5 liters of total volume. We are actually looking to sample a couple different ones at work because we can cut down on size and they can support up to 8 displays.

[@Jarymut]

Good luck finding mobo with enough outputs for this... AFAIK all Ryzen 7000 cpus have 3 output engines. My 7950x3d is currently driving 3440x1440@165 and 1440p@75 without any issues, there's still one HDMI port free.

[@TheGreenReaper]

So would a DisplayLink hub though. Get an old Dell D6000.

[@manoftherainshorts9075]

RX 6600 could be a great pair with something like Ryzen 5 5600. It's dirt cheap now (like $100 at my place if you know where to buy), doesn't require expensive motherboard and memory, could run pretty much any game you want on a market.

[@WGK90]

I'm running a 6600 with a R5 2600 and I don't have any trouble, the first game I know I'm going to have trouble with is Alan Wake 2 and I suspect I will have to upgrade unless I want to play AW2 / newer titles on low/medium settings at 1080p.

[@XWinterTrainX]

I think it makes a heap of sense for ultra small form factor builds. Like those desk minis or seemles PCs that you attach to the back of your monitor. I'd agree that this isn't a mainstream part but imo it definitly has its place. In 2 years this will be an incredible value part.

[@chovekb]

Already is a good value, cause such gpu performance (RX 6500 XT like) costs at least $100 in a dGPU form!

[@ChrisS-ej6ql]

AM5 boards aren't cheap enough to justify an iGPU-based budget build at this level of performance. Where this gets compelling is if AMD can put this in an X3D chip where you could use the iGPU as a capture card for streaming, since most AM5 boards have less than optimal placement of the non-primary PCIe slots. From a pure technology perspective, what they've done is impressive in terms of generational iGPU performance increase and if they continue the rate of gains with Zen 5, maybe that'll be a truly viable iGPU for budget gaming builds.

[@emdotrod]

The APU was meant for all-in-one solution first and foremost since its inception. It won't make sense to pair it with a dedicated graphic card but for what it brings, it's certainly okay. Just not for the current price.

[@MrStealYoBeef]

The issue is, who needs this all in one solution? 99.9% of consumers aren't restricted on space, so the ultra-compact solution is one that's looking for a problem that doesn't exist. It's also not cheap enough to justify taking over a CPU and GPU combo for consumers who are looking for value in terms of what they get per dollar spent. What's the solution for? People can call it a solution all they want, but solutions exist to solve problems and if there is no problem, well that kinda defeats the purpose. They were so focused on whether or not they could do it, they never asked whether or not they should.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Yeah, with a better price that could be the start now and upgrade later choice. You can get a system that can game, but can add a faster card later on.

[@brosplit]

@@MrStealYoBeef you dont speak of nor part 99.9% of consumers. You are part of a niche target market -enthusiasts. Office builds and many pre-builds for regular users which hold bigger market share would prefer AIO solution.

[@FFXfever]

​@@brosplitfor those cases, they would be buying office fleets, and traditionally uses a lower end cpus cause you really don't need more than the 2cu igpu to drive 4 screens. You'll rarely find a 5700g in them.

[@doryiii]

I built several tiny thinITX "gaming-enough" PCs using the 2400G, then 3400G, then 5700G for my friends and family and they all loved it. I'm waiting for Onda to release an AM5 thinITX board then this one will be next on my list.

[@Nerdelkin]

I love APUs. I have 2 rigs: main R5 5600 + A750 at home and R5 5600G out of city. I need a good PC even when I'm in the village, so I can crunch my steam backlog and do office work when I'm working from home or at weekends. I don't play AAA titles at release anymore, but I wouldn't brush off APUs so easily. For FF14, WoW, LoL, CS2, ANNO 1800, Path of Exile, Skyrim, Fallout 4 and so on APUs with productivity like 8700G or even 8600G, in my case 5600G, is everything you need. With path to upgrade to discreet gpu on AM5 platform, it's perfect start now for a casual millennial gamer who doesn't want to buy console and/or spend 600$ alone on "budget" GPU for 1080p. Or getting stuck with a dead-end Intel platform. Or, in my case, for a secondary rig for casual backlog crunching and office tasks.

[@chadwolf3840]

Fascinating. Good to see a serviceable integrated. Actually pretty impressive.

[@youprobablydontlikeme3206]

Just a personal opinion on improvement... maybe others won't share. I would like to have the stats of the CPU's shown longer in the beginning because I personally find it harder to follow what you say instead follow it with the eyes too. But since english is my 2nd language it may be just harder for me :). Great work, love your videos

[@jonjon3829]

i've preordered 8600g for a new build, the 760m is already 3x better than what I'm currently using and it's better than the cheapest alternative for am5, 7500f + 730gt for the same price

[@schwazernebe]

should have gotten a ryzen 5 5600 which is like 30% cheaper with a mainboard that is like half the price and ram which is 20% cheaper because ddr4 is cheaper and am4 mainboards too. and with the saved money you could have gotten a gpu like rx 6600

[@jonjon3829]

@@schwazernebe I was considering that actually, 5600 with 6700 and asrock b550m pro4 but then what? that's a dead end. I went for an entry am5 because I'm planning to get a x3d and a xtx in 2 years when gta 6 comes out. Right now I only play mechwarrior online and fall guys, 760m is plenty for that. Normally I'd have waited the 2 years but my laptop is a work laptop too and its dead so I had to get something. Future proofed a good motherboard and a good psu.

[@schwazernebe]

@@jonjon3829 if you want to get a 7800x3d and 7900 xtx then ur definetly not one of those that need a 8700g lol, no argument about too expensive when u have tons of money. even more, getting 8700g is a waste if you already want to get a x3d cpu

[@Just_An_Ignacio]

Would love to see some FSR/RSR or Fluid Motion Frames, because i think it's super necessary to play "fine" on these products.

[@BlackJesus8463]

no

[@ilyamur885]

inputlag incoming

[@chubbysumo2230]

Fluid motion frames would only make it worse, when you have a low base frame rate, fluid motion frames make the experience worse, because you don't have enough data to generate good frames.

[@andersjjensen]

No. Upscaling and frame generation is icing on the cake for above-medium speck computers. Even DLSS royally suck at 1080p, and the claim from both Nvidia and AMD that you need a base FPS of 60 before FG/AFMF becomes viable has a huge missing asterisk at the end: You need ~60FPS AVG with ~55FPS 1% Low, not 60FPS AVG with 40FPS 1% Low.

[@RicochetForce]

Exactly, Frame Generation is a WIN more button, not a win button.

[@MinosML]

The i3 12100f + RX 6600 combo is the budget King that keeps on giving! It's wild how many of my friends that didn't know about computers ignored my advice and ended up with a 5700g instead, basically getting ripped off. Got my brother the same combo and it's honestly the best option by far, especially in a struggling economy.

[@Sonic6293]

12100F is the best overlooked secret in the current generation.

[@JohnSmith-oh9ux]

They can drop in 5800X3D later while you don't. End of story.

[@13bmitchell]

Wrong platform.@@JohnSmith-oh9ux

[@Supcharged]

@@JohnSmith-oh9uxoh my, $450 launch price part better than...$110 one???!!?!?!?!

[@kubotite9168]

​​@@JohnSmith-oh9uxlol by that logic... they can drop in 14900k later and you dont lol

[@QuentinStephens]

Great work, but please, when you go onto the other APUs, compare the APUs with mini-PC systems like the Beelink GTR7 Pro, which also has the 780M GPU included. Then you can show us how additional power and cooling affect the results.

[@joelconolly5574]

Having a 1650-ish performance on an iGPU is actually a feat on itself. It's been a while since we have a playable iGPU that could handle AAA games at decent settings. At least you can get away with this CPU before getting a better GPU in the future.

[@rickyking300]

It doesn't make sense to do that when you could go for a cheap rx 6600 with a ryzen 5 7600 for about $100 more, have way better starting performance, and end with higher gaming performance if you upgrade to a 7900 XT or 4080 super if you end up going high end. The 8700g would maybe save $100 if you upgrade to a high end GPU and end up with worse gaming performance. And if you're happy with 1080p medium-high at 100 FPS, then even a ryzen 5 5600x + RX 6600 or RX 6650xt would already get you there for roughly the same price or slightly more. The 8700G is a cool product, but in the gaming market, I don't see it's value at all.

[@demrasnawla]

​@@rickyking300I guess it's a lot better for SFF and low power use cases

[@rickyking300]

@gruiadevil kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZm9koRpiZV2iMksi=RKHv5Vv6bw3Tc_jd&t=802 The difference is negligible using a 4090 at high framerate between a 7600 and a 7700

[@lorsch.]

it's not that close though, the 1650 is still much faster, up to +100%.

[@lorsch.]

@@gruiadevil i don't know what you're on about, it would be cheaper to build a faster system with the 1650 where I live, bad price / performance of the APU was in the conclusion of this video.

[@AgentSmith911]

Impressive improvements! This means a lot of people can soon game on their work provided PCs :-D

[@GameRTmaster]

What the more impressive that poor people who can't afford a good graphics card can bought the ryzen 8 8700g for gaming and get the gtx 1650 gaming level

[@schwazernebe]

@@GameRTmaster or get a used 1650 for like 80$ lol

[@GameRTmaster]

@ScrayaZ that's not true I visited the market online shop here now The gtx 1650 price is for 170$ Maybe in USA and United Kingdom is cheaper but here in middle east and Africa too it's expensive Unlike the cpu market + no one gonna buy the 8700g at the current price We know the price flow After 6 months it's going to drop from 330$ to 250$ or 260$ at max After 1 or 2 years of course it's going to drop to even 160$ My point is : gpu and cpu for 260$ is very good 👍🏼 The full pc gonna cost about 500$ true it's the same price of gtx 1650 full setup but the idea you can in the future add a very good graphics card when you get the money 💰 And with no rush because the gaming performance of 780m is very playable at 1080p with high fps too

[@ZiZo34344]

These APUs selling point are the mini itx builds and living room gaming mini pc systems with 30 fps average medium settings like consoles. Admittedly you're better off buying a ps5, as mini itx boards are expensive and for this iGPU to fully shine you need a premium DDR5 ram, not the typical 4800-5600mhz. Still a cool piece of tech if the price is right

[@pranze3484]

Still, there are super compact m-atx cases nowadays, you're gonna pay like 30-50% less overall with a rx6600 for twice the perf, itx am5 mobos are extremely expensive, add sff or flex psu and it hurts a lot.

[@vh9network]

PS5 games are 60 fps average and some will play at 120 fps.

[@williamrutter3619]

Probably find a stx case board and power supply very cheap. But performance is well off a ps5, try that 6600 or a 3060. Still a micro pc with some power is nice, it could do with double the performance, which AMD could do so if they felt like it.

[@Apollo-Computers]

​@@vh9networkthe 3 ps5 games I have run at 30 fps.....

[@Woodzta]

You can still fit decent GPUs in ITX builds though. Although if you're going this route then you already know you're paying the ITX tax. My SG13 has a 12100 and a 3060 Ti in it and it handles PS3 / 360 emulation fine.

[@alexbanana3445]

Good job Steve, very excellent video. iGPU performance was astonishing.

[@guitarmansg499]

Agreed. BUT the mobile APUs they're putting in mini PCs such as the 7940HS (with essentially the same 780M iGPU) are pretty exciting. I have one that plays games surprisingly "well" (for basic gaming you can easily pack up and travel with) >60 FPS at 1080 optimized settings (with resolution scaling). Of course adding a dGPU like the 6600/7600/or better would be preferred, but it's a great starting point for a cheap travel mini pc. They're starting to make some really compelling mini PCs with dGPUs, as long as the price points can make sense, they're really cool for secondary travel systems.

[@Hugh_I]

the 7040 series APUs not only have the same iGPU, they are essentially the same APUs based on the same phoenix dies - with minor differences only in clock speeds and maybe some tweaked voltage curves/power limits. An all-in-one mini-PC based in the 7940HS should work as surprisingly well as the 8700G, because it's the same thing in a different package. Comes down to price or how much you prefer building it yourself/being able to upgrade which one to pick really.

[@johnscaramis2515]

@@Hugh_I AMD's desktop Ryzen APUs have always been the same as the mobile parts except the socket and what's most important: the much higher power limit. 88W PPT compared to 15W (or 35/45W) gives you much more room for higher clocks

[@Bareego]

Really loved the cleverly chosen comparisons you did. Much Kudos ! IMO looking and the intergenerational improvements I think this CPU is a winner, as long as the price is low enough. Lots of people want to build small systems without a GPU and this CPU fits the bill to a T there. When it comes to IGPUs this one beats all the rest by a HUGE margin. Also interesting to see comparisons with cheap CPUs and dedicated video cards.

[@pranze3484]

Some people seem to think there's only one type of gaming, that is trying the latest AAA and raging if it doesn't run at ultra settings with RT on. But a lot of people out there can play the xbox360/ps3/ps4/switch sort of catalog all year long tbh, plus the tons of indies that are arguably better than most AAA, and age much better (some don't even age, cuphead is timeless). Still, this needs to be 250$, and itx am5 mobos need to drop drastically, so probably hold for at least a year to game at 65W in silence.

[@primozsuhadolnik5468]

Super review. Thank you. Good to know that i3+rx 6600 combo is cheaper and better performance.

[@razingst0rm]

Good stuff. I expect this tech will help handheld gaming in the future.

[@ericwright8592]

3:32 these NPUs are actually quite useful for things like Photoshop and Lightroom. My macbook pro, even though much lower in raw performance than my full tower desktop with a 3080ti, handles various AI filters just as fast thanks to its NPU. Hard to incorporate into productivity benchmarking though as it's not clear how and when the NPU is specifically leveraged by certain programs.

[@Nelthalin]

Very good review and nice to see the 8700G has good overall performance. The IGPU is decent enough. Sadly it has a high price. Like you mentioned aswell you can buy a cheaper CPU + RX6600 and have better gaming performance for the same money. Looking at the performance of the R7 7700 IGPU i wonder if the 8700G is hitting power limits, its about 3,5-4x faster while having 6x the CU count i know scaling wont be 100% but i would have expected more performance based on the CU count / clocks. COD MWIII does show scaling like i would expect. But that is a game that does wel on RDNA3 the R7 7700 has a 2 CU RDNA2 Based GPU. Looking at the memory scaling test that is not the biggest problem at the moment. But the power test is interesting all core peaking at 131 but with IGPU 148w. I would be interesting to see that i would use in a Single thread test with heavy GPU load like 3DMark or One of the lighter MSI Kombustor tesselation tests. I would love to see a test where you would use PBO to raise the max TDP to see if the gaming performance in some games would improve.

[@alive_omi]

PBO might be interesting idea, but it raises cpu vcore mostly. And power budget is eaten by the cpu cores. Another limiting factor can be ddr5 speed. I guess we'll get answers with proper 8600g review.

[@Frazec_Atsjenkov]

These testing results are so neat and elucidating. Cheers! Very niche product at this price level.

[@zodwraith5745]

Their APUs used to be enticing for stuff like mini builds and laptops, but these prices are just ridiculous. It's too slow as a CPU, it's too slow as a GPU, and it's too expensive for even niche use cases where APUs usually live. It's like an experiment that they only asked if they _could_ build it without ever asking if they _should._ These will sell terribly and probably see steep price cuts after rotting unsold on shelves. This is why I laugh at the fanboys that keep saying AMD is magically going to fix entry level GPU pricing with APUs to once again disappoint. I just didn't expect them to be so greedy this time. It's pretty sad when your new product makes the 6500xt look reasonable.

[@Sk0die]

Back in 2021 I spent $250 on an RX 6500 XT to pair with my 5700G without realising the atrocity I was about to commit. I somehow made my bad decision even worse by buying the more expensive gigabyte 3 fan model so I could squeeze out some performance with an OC😂. As soon as I installed my new GPU and ran some benchmarks I knew something was up and after 5 minutes on google I realised my mistake. 3 years later and it still keeps me up at night.

[@skywalker1991]

In 4 to 5 years AMD Apu will have igpu performance of rx6600 , 8700g seems like its as fast as rx570 gpu from 7 years ago , amazing

[@agostonpalatinus1513]

Yes. I wanted to say, it has the same performance as my RX 570. But dont forget the fact that anyone, who cant buy a strong card into their built, this CPU is more than best option. I play R6S on low 1080p to get 144fps, this cpu basically does the same performance with lower consumption. If I could put a better vga, it would be better. AMD wins my heart again damn.

[@foxs49er]

This APU has its use cases. I have a family of 4. My kids are 4 and 6. I have a high end gaming desktop with a 13900k and RTX 4090 and the kids play on an RTX 3060 laptop. But I would like to get 2 more computers set up for family gaming. Things like 7 Days to Die, Minecraft, Forza Horizon, ext. I don't want to clutter my office up too much for these occasional use cases so I was thinking of building (or buying if Minisforum makes one) 2 computers that I can slap on the back of 1080p 144hz monitors. This will save space and not cook us in the office. I already have 1 space heater (the 4090 desktop).

[@RandoBurner]

I only got a 5600g because I needed the igpu if the dgpu fails, for work, for basic display output. With the ryzen 7000 series all having an igpu anyway, no matter how weak, I have no use for this type of product anymore.

[@fayis4everlove]

that is true.

[@InnuendoXP]

Yeah I keep my old 970 around for this reason, but the iGPU is another good thing to have for troubleshooting if nothing else.

[@DMDMDM7]

@@InnuendoXP same. that is why i kept my 580 around. if my 6800 fails. at least i can still play old games with it.

[@darthwiizius]

@@DMDMDM7 When I finally upgrade aging 2060S I'll service it and put it away as a backup/emergency video adapter, I know it can play my current library if needed and I won't have the "what if my GPU fails" anxiety any more. I might even keep my entire current AM4 system and just set it up as an emulation box, whack a big cheap mechanical in it and fill it with stuff up to the PS3 era, as long as the system drive is solid state it'll work just fine.

[@DMDMDM7]

@@darthwiizius i don't know anyone that can service it on my country. i used to know someone. but that person suddenly ignores me. for no reason. at that time i want to fix my gpu. i forgot what type it was. but he ignores my messages about wanting to fix it. it is very hard to look for someone that is willing and capable to repair gpu. i do know they can just buy a broken gpu and then fix it and sell it for profit. because of that trying to fix gpu is not on my list. and some of them only uses the old heat it up thing. that will just broke again easily.

[@Infernosaint]

It's great to see iGPU improvements, looking at upgrading the "media center" from a 2200g, to be able to play less demanding coop games on the TV. For use cases where a discrete GPU is not an option, this is great to have.

[@one_step_sideways]

Unfortunately the 8700G is just too expensive, the 99% of us would benefit a lot from the much cheaper 8600G. Keep in mind that the vast majority of PC users either don't game at all, or game very little, or play eSports titles, which the Radeon 760M in the Ryzen 5 8600G is very much capable of playing. I'd like to get an 8600G at a discount later on for work, AV1 encoding and the NPU workloads.

[@SpankeyMcCheeks]

Adding information about the 0.1% lows along side the 1% lows would be beneficial for testing iGPUs and low ens systems in general as they're more likely to have infrequent, but serious, frame drops.

[@InternetListener]

1 milionth lows helped me a lot together with measuring FPS with 15 decimal points position stored in a double (FP64).

[@SpankeyMcCheeks]

@@InternetListener Oh yeah, that should probably be included as well now that you mention it!

[@Qyngali]

Frame time plots are more beneficial by far, too bad most reviewers don't provide them and most people can't be bothered to learn why they are objectively superior for detecting stutters.

[@InternetListener]

@@SpankeyMcCheeks Next LHC improvement at CERN is using Game Rigs from youtube reviewers to properly detect Sun neutrinos a part from the experimental ones... way cheaper than asking science and engineering to find proper metrics or build alien tech like futurist technology. You can measure FPS with V-sync on , RGB lights, and most expensive power supply or the cheapest that turns on and still make sure you're getting the same result if you're being scamed.

[@KrazzeeKane]

​@@QyngaliI'ma be honest, I just hate looking at graphs, they are far more generally confusing and I feel like I get no data from them. For us visual dummies, non-charts are the way lol

[@fasic46]

2400g was 150$, i got full pc for ~500€ (with monitor) at a time. I just “upgraded” it with 50$ rx580 8gb (after 7-8 years).

[@lexavaritia7596]

Wow that memory scaling with these APUs. cant imagine what would Z1 extreme successor be

[@ArtifactSkyline]

If the rumor's are true, we are getting a new ROG Ally this year. It would be very odd if Asus decided to release another product using the same APU. What I am saying is, you might not have to wait long.

[@nexorabolis]

I have a tiny ITX case that Ive been holding onto for a powerhouse APU build. This comes close to what I'd want, but not quite there yet. I wish AMD would just release an APU on par with the PS5/XBX, give us console power and let me build my own

[@Vinterloft]

780m vs 6500 XT testing is disconnected from reality, you'd want this for an ITX PC where you need the PCIe slot for something else like a capture card, so a 6500 XT is never an option anyway

[@richardbeckenbaugh1805]

I currently have been building 5700G machines for people who just want to surf the internet and do some retro gaming. The 5700G works great for this at a really low cost. Eventually the supply will run out and I’ll have to go to the AM5 platform. The 8700G looks like it was designed for what I am doing with the 5700G, surfing the web and playing retro games. You’d be surprised at how many people are doing this.

[@douglasv4266]

For a small from factor Linux gaming PC to SteamOS/HoloISO this could be a very good option. Even if it does not make sense for a desktop sized gaming PC as pointed out in this review. Thanks to this review I am now very interested as its a big step up from the 5700G from a performance point of few if you dont want the extra size, Power and noise levels resulting from adding a discreet GPU.

[@samgoff5289]

The gpu is over double the performance of 8700g…if you don’t want noise you can easily limit power and fans 10% or he’ll even 25% and still destroy the shit apu while being completely silent

[@douglasv4266]

@@samgoff5289 And that is why it only makes sense when you don't have space for an separate GPU. If you are building in a case that about the size of an Intel NUC, and plan to use the system in something like a car or boat with strict power, space % heat output limitations like the system I have in my boat these APUs are a perfect fit for that application.

[@mehedihasan99]

I opened KZbin to search for this review, only to find it number one on the recommended videos.

[@RayneAngelus]

Unsurprisingly, there *is* such a thing as making the iGPU in your APU too weak for its price class. However, that's assuming it's going to get used in situations where a combo could just as readily be deployed. But for a tiny box (like a NUC-alike), its performance and value are quite good relative to other single processor options.

[@jasonjenkinson2049]

I feel like having the 780m in the 7500g would have been a much more attractive option. But maybe that doesnt work out on AMDs side

[@a.arredondo]

Dear Steve, I'm disappointed in your lack of enthusiasm for the 8700G. You've certainly hammered the point that it's not a good gaming CPU here, and the in the podcast, and in the Q&A. But this is a godsend for mini-itx enthusiasts. How about an FPS per cubic centimeter chart? 😉

[@EdwinJones1234]

Once these drop in price these would be perfect for steam os boxes in the living room…

[@ImOnMy116]

appreciate the very thoughtful testing and benchmarks, super thorough examination from many angles! Definitely agree, I don’t see the purpose of such a product when cheaper CPU/GPU combos outperform it in gaming

[@lharsay]

The i3 12100 is still really impressive, it ran every tested game so well even tho it's unlikely that anyone would use it with DDR-7200.

[@DKTD23]

Very nice chip for secondary dedicated streaming PC while staying power efficient, looking forward to taking one for a spin. And a lot of the benches FSR/AFMF was not being leveraged, and still playable FPS.

[@S3lvah]

Nice that you did the 6500 XT testing. A lot of your audience at this point has to be hardware enthusiasts. I know I started watching this channel for its rigorous testing content to find the best product for myself or my friends/family, but eventually it just became interesting to learn about the progress of technology for its own sake, as a hobby. For people like this, seeing the bridging of the gap between best iGPUs and worst dGPUs is fascinating. Good content.

[@andersjjensen]

You're basically accusing Steve of turning people into nerds! :P

[@MrHamof]

It makes sense that the 8700G and RX 6500 XT perform similarly. They're both 12CU GPUs, the 6500 has the advantage of GDDR6 while the 8700G has the advantage of being RDNA3. So game to game it depends on which of those is more important.

[@gatocochino5594]

The 6500xt has 16 CUs.

[@MrHamof]

@@gatocochino5594 Then it’s the 6400xt that has 12 then. I always have a a hard time keeping straight exactly how much those cars suck.

[@subrezon]

Next year is going to be crazy for APUs. Intel has figured out how to do iGPU on a chiplet, but the GPU itself is not that great. Whereas AMD iGPUs are great, but hold back the entire package due to the monolithic design. Intel must be close to finalizing Battlemage, AMD must be close to figuring out chiplet iGPUs. Next year will be insane.

[@chillinsince96]

These new G processors make sense for those that do not want to have to sell their old stuff on marketplace. If you buy the I three and the 6600 combo you now have two items that are not in demand that you would have to sell on marketplace I have no problem doing so but many others do not wanna deal with that. It would much rather just put a card in with their new G processor and not have to sell anything.

[@marcellopasseri8277]

Probably a very good use case would be as streaming server with applications like plex or jellyfin running in background, as well as a media center / home theater. These kind of machine tent to be always on and an integrated graphics makes more sense than a descrete one

[@chovekb]

Looks like a pretty satisfying general- casual usage APU, especially for a small and efficient pc build, which is not really a gaming cpu, and is not really a productivity cpu, and is not really a multimedia cpu, but all of those in one xD Also one thing for sure is that it's an efficiency apu in power, space and mobility.

[@kasimirdenhertog3516]

The RX 6500 XT is a hacked up, slapped together monstrosity for sure, but when it was introduced there was a mining fever going on and it was a good buy from price/performance perspective (provided you had PCIe 4.0). I remember it was cheaper than the GTX 1050 ti the Babylonians used to do calculus on, and just a bit more than a GTX 1030, which was not even a gaming card! So it might seem ridiculous now, but the RX 6500 XT had its shine at a very dark point in time.

[@samgoff5289]

That is not true…it was shit at launch and somehow worse now

[@darthwiizius]

@@samgoff5289 Utterly pointless card at launch. When it came out almost nobody had PCIe4 systems, it's particularly annoying because the card's bandwidth means it wouldn't have been an issue even in an x8 PCIe3 slot, but, still I suppose when you chop an 8 lane mobile wafer in half that's the result. A card that's useless for most until it's aged and can't run anything new properly. You can get a lot better from the used market than one of these cash grab cards.

[@kasimirdenhertog3516]

Guess you guys weren't there at that time, having to make a buying decision. You could build a budget gaming PC with PCIe 4.0, so not really a point that 'no one had it'. And honestly, you'd spend more money on a geriatric GTX 1050 ti just because the design decisions for the RX 6500 XT (which performs much better) annoy you?

[@samgoff5289]

@@kasimirdenhertog3516 so, you think we weren’t there 2 years ago? Everyone remembers the awful mining boom and insane prices…the 6500xt was $200 or more and awful even if it cost $10, if you were stupid enough to buy one don’t try to pretend it was a good choice lmao have some self control and use what you have or just wait a couple of months, the entire thing was over a few months after 6500xt released

[@samgoff5289]

@@darthwiizius why are you telling me things I know

[@Sonic6293]

I plan on getting one because its gonna be neat to have this much power in a case thats smaller than 3 liters. I already have a system with a decent dGPU.

[@AhaOk2398]

Sounds good for a quiet small PC that lets you run indie/retro games or low spec AAA games and you can probably pack in a small bag.

[@Sonic6293]

@@AhaOk2398 That's the plan, I've already got a bag that will fit the system, speakers, dual portable monitors, keyboard, mouse, controller and cables, in less that 17 liters.

[@artursjoblom5142]

Apus are starting to get interesting, a mini pc build without gpu for emulation/older games would be really cool

[@iikatinggangsengii2471]

my suggestion, build super mini sfx with it, you can bring it everywhere, to office, tv room etc

[@iikatinggangsengii2471]

youtube abt sfx build if youre interested, i recommend optimum tech

[@iikatinggangsengii2471]

and also another one i dont remember davin tech or smth

[@FFXfever]

The major problem for these things is that for price of the am5 board and the 8700g, you can buy a Chinese box with a ryzen 5900hx and 6600m in it. It's a cool experimental chip but price doesn't make perfect sense yet. Hopefully the 8600g will fare better.

[@shadowlemon69]

l think the 8600G will be a bit better value than 8700G. But still, i3-12100F + RX 6600 or even R5 7500F + RX 6600 is much better value and it would be surprising if 8600G + iGPU will offer good value for gaming.

[@robertopazsoldan9641]

7500f is too powerfull for the rx6600 a waste. Better pair with 6700xt or higher.

[@shadowlemon69]

@@gruiadevil That would be like adding an RX 580 to a Ryzen 7 7700 build, which is stupid.

[@TerraWare]

I agree, this is a niche product specifically with a small form factor, discrete GPU-less future. Perhaps multimedia, streaming, capturing and other specific workloads. The x8 pcie lanes for the primary slot make it a bad choice for a mid to high end gaming focused build.

[@H4GRlD]

Could be interesting to see some performance / power consumption comparison with let's say the Steam Deck or some other more powerful handhelds.

[@samgoff5289]

That isn’t even close lmao the steam deck is 15-20 watts….

[@H4GRlD]

@@samgoff5289 Clearly, but otherwise what is the real use case for a chip like this? You could almost buy the whole Steam Deck for the price of this CPU. That's why it would be interesting to see how much performance we get here for what "cost". I'm getting some "jack of all trades, master of none" vibes here, can't really figure out the target audience.

[@heni63]

​@@H4GRlDprobably power saving and being small without the need for a GPU, and still pretty powerful

[@unclerubo]

Outside the tiny PC without a GPU, the best use case I can see for this is perhaps a NAS with multiple CPU intensive services and perhaps using the iGPU for accelerated transcoding in Plex or Jellyfin...

[@micahbonewell5994]

From a software developer perspective, the product makes sense if you are on a budget for building your desktop. the 8 cores/16 thread of the 8700g will be much more sense for compilation than the 12100f (4 cores/4threads). They have a higher base and boost 4.2/5.1 vs 3.3/4.3. If you are a software developer a gpu is a luxury, and it's something you can buy later, and when you do buy the gpu you don't have to go through the hassle of selling the old one. and the hassle and cost of buying a better cpu. Not to mention while all this going on your drawing 65W vs 89W + 132W. So your electric bill will cheaper and in the summer your cooling bill will be cheaper. Also the AM5 platform so far is not a dead end platform with future upgrades being possible where as the 12100F platform is at EOL with no future product releases planned. That's all not mentioning that this product just came out, so there is every possibility that with software updates the product will improve. vs the 12100f is already mature product and most likely will not improve at all in terms of performance. This video only considered the video/photo editing perspective of professional workloads which isn't very comprehensive. I would suggest adding a compilation test to the test suite.

[@alive_omi]

12100f is 4c/8t cpu for sw dev there's r5 7600 or r7 7700 with igpu and no compromise on l3 cache

[@fishinthejar]

Amazing job Steve! Thanks for this review and your insights on the 300$ value.

[@mrityumara]

It's good for niche use of miniPC for living room i guess

[@mrbobgamingmemes9558]

Its more like for low power pc where electricity cost is a rip off

[@madson-web]

This goes hard in HTPCs

[@Safetytrousers]

You can get a small unit with a discrete GPU that will perform better.

[@BuceGar]

I bought a 5700G and never regretted it. It allowed me to get the build up and running and buy a GPU almost a year later when the games I wanted to play were too much for it and GPU prices had come down considerably. I eventually paired it with an RX 6750 XT, and the system is great. Given that the 8700G is twice as powerful I would definitely consider it, and then just buy an appropriate GPU when you need one and find a good deal.

[@NeVErseeNMeLikEDis]

This cpu is for mini itx build mostly Is like a side thing for enthusiasts who just want to have it to check it out. Ino im gettint it n building the smallest pc i can build With it.😊

[@four-play]

Maybe ASRock will release another STX board like they did with AM4.

[@eddieobscurant]

I would like to see a livestream or a short video of igpu overclocking alongside very fast 8000mhz memory kits and then retest these games with the max overclock you would achieve. It wouldn't mean anything new for the cpu, but it would be fun.

[@CHT1992]

It might not make much sense, but it allows for a wider variety of builds... Smaller form PCs for example, this CPU packs a punch on its own. But my most interisting field is how this could be brought over to handheld factor. Better IGPU performance, means better handhelds in the future.

[@lorsch.]

Or a passive virtualisation system with the APU as dedicated GPU for one virtual machine and a passive GPU like the 3050 6GB for the other.

[@jesusbarrera6916]

it's literally using the same iGPU as the the 7840U... which is the root chipset of most 2023 handhelds, including the ASUS and Lenovo it started out in laptops and handhelds first...

[@niebuhr6197]

It's unbelievable the amount of people who talk without knowing... 7840HS, Z1 Extreme, 8700G... they are all the same chip.

[@lorsch.]

@@niebuhr6197 I think you are assuming here.

[@SpawnBootcamp]

It makes a lot of sense if you need a powerful small factor pc next to your 4k tv for streaming and occasionally playing some games. I now have an old ryzen 7 3700x + an amd rx 580 combo next to my Oled tv for watching online media and playing some less demanding games. This could be a nice replacement.

[@alive_omi]

Rx 6600/6600xt/6650xt could fit well, much faster than rx580 and less power hungry only consider upgrading cpu if it is bottleneck

[@savagej4y241]

For that use case, honestly, the 3700X is fine, just upgrade the GPU. Don't need a whole new system for that yet.

[@SpawnBootcamp]

@@savagej4y241 it works fine, but its an entire atx pc. This new cpu fits in a microcase, better next to the tv.

[@6FootVampire]

The "300 dollar combo" is 490 dollars in sweden. With MUCH more expensive mobo on top of that

[@savagej4y241]

That's another thing, Steve picked up the American habit of leaving out the additional sales tax (which is different in every US state). Although, 490 Euros even with VAT included is still much more expensive than in the US!

[@6FootVampire]

@@savagej4y241 our taxes is always included no matter what we buy, but pc parts are insanely expensive here now. Ps5 slim with discdrive is 850$ equivalent new. And that is without any shortage - shelfs are full.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Pretty much what APUs are really useful for. Either as standalone option for SFF systems, or to upgrade to a dedicated card later, which means the CPU part needs to be strong enough. Which is also why APU tests should be conducted in three rounds: 1) test the CPU part compared to other CPUs (Especially to comparable CPUs, in that case the 7700, 7700X and 7800X3D) 2a) test the iGPU as it comes in the APU, compared to other iGPUs 2b) test the iGPU compared to dedicated CPU/GPU setups. 3) test the chip with a dedicated GPU, with a comparison similar to the second set. And those tests now only for raw performance, but also how expensive that performance is. Both in purchase cost, and running cost. And that comparison to dedicated cards, both with the iGPU and dGPU is often missing in reviews.

[@letto18]

With how popular Palworld is, I'd love to see it incorporated into benchmarks, more so given the minimum specs of a i5-3570K paired with 16GB RAM & a GTX 1050.

[@MrHamof]

Might have been interesting to have a mini-pc with a 7845HS or 8845HS in there too, they theoretically have the same IGP but clocked 200mhz lower but it'd be interesting to see if the higher power allowance of a desktop system would allow them to stretch their legs more than you'd think from that clock difference.

[@benjy288]

The real advantage of the ryzen APU's is the fact that they can be passively cooled, so you can have a completely silent PC that can still play most games OK.

[@hypersonicboom]

I'm sure if you try hard enough, you can also passively cool a 6600 + 12100f. It might even be easier, given the surface area at your disposal to dissipate the GPU power

[@benjy288]

@@hypersonicboom I'm not sure about that, there's videos of people trying to passively cool GPU's with limited success, and the lengths they have to go to is pretty extreme.

[@hypersonicboom]

@@benjy288 you can downclock your GPU and ram clocks to half of stock, then undervolt the crap out of the card to land at something like 40 watts - easily coolable with a slab of metal (and you'd still have better performance than igpu)

[@benjy288]

@@hypersonicboom Possibly, but you also have to void the warranty on your GPU buy replacing the stock cooler with something else, you also have to find something else that might fit and try and hack a way of attaching it properly so that it actually keeps it cool enough, and hope that you don't damage it in the process, then you'll also need a case big enough to take the massive air cooler on both your CPU and GPU, where the ryzen APU is just much easier and much less risk.

[@dat_21]

By ok you mean atrocious low quality with unstable and stuttery 30-40 fps?

[@RonMizman]

This thing playing games even at low detail is crazy. This is crazy for the super casual entry-level mass market who play mobile-style or indie games, if at all.

[@harz426]

I think ultra-mini PCs really are going to be the 8700G's main implementation. They are a lot more popular now than many people realize.

[@paulbrooks4395]

An oddity for certain. Too expensive for the console market, too power hungry for the handheld gaming market, and too slow for the price in the desktop market.

[@davidbetancourt4028]

What I'm very interested in is if PLEX will support this APU's GPU for transcoding. This looks like it'd be powerful enough to transcode x265 on the fly. I don't think support would be there for it, not like Nvidia GPUs or Quicksync on Intel. Still, this is interesting. Would like to go back to a dedicated PLEX box in the next year and highly prefer keeping it small instead of requiring a big GPU for transcoding.

[@winterscrescendo]

The APU has AMD's media engine on it, so it does have hardware acceleration for x265. According to their spec sheet, it can do a 4k x265 stream at up to 175fps and 8k at up to 43fps. Also has AV1 hardware encode support for up to 4k @ 240fps and 8k @ 60fps with 10bpc. It just needs the software developers/maintainers to add support for it on their end.

[@EDIIIZ]

AMDs Transcoding is sadly way behind intel. Drivers lack support and quality is not on par.

[@davidbetancourt4028]

@@winterscrescendo My original post is more hopes and dreams. I'm probably just going to snag a lower power GPU and put it in a small form factor box. A NUC like computer would be nice though.

[@andersjjensen]

If you run PLEX on Linux you're treated like a king. AMD's RDNA3 media block is fully supported in ffmpeg. I don't run PLEX myself (my media server is basically my own invention built on Slackware) but PLEX-on-Linux with AMD has had a very good reputation for years and years. My current media server is a full size ATX machine built out of random parts, and I'm getting fed up with the size and noise, so the 8000G CPUs have peaked my interest. There are Mini-ITX cases out there in the 22x22x8cm range with VESA mounts so I can slap it directly on the backside of the TV, which is looking mightily tempting.

[@detroid89]

​@@andersjjensensounds like a plan 😊

[@damienlobb85]

I would say anyone building a mini PC would be happy with that level of iGPU perf.

[@TheDinis553]

Holy integrated graphics have come a long way.

[@RavTokomi]

Could be an interesting pick for niche mini-ITX builds where you don't have room for a GPU. But given some of the excellent integrated offerings from places like Minisforum I'm not sure it would make sense to DIY something like that.

[@Uachtar]

What would be really interesting is a 6 core variant with the full 12 CU enabled at around 200$. Those APU are unbalanced on the CPU side. Maybe the next gen APU will make more sense. The next one will have 16 CU, and there is a rumors for a 40 CU version. The thing is what will be the price ? the main issue here is the 330$ and AMD have to charge that because of the 8 core CPU. Give us 4/6 core with the 12 CU and that will start to make sense.

[@rockindude3001]

I think they should have designed the 8500G (2xZen4 plus 4xZen4c) with 12CUs for exactly that reason. The L3-castrated 8 cores are too close in performance to a real 8 core 7700x, the L3-castrated 6 cores too close to the 7600. With a heterogenous architecture, they could have saved die-space AND have 12CUs shifting more of the available power to the CUs... But maybe that is just easy to assess after the fact.

[@squallleonheart7353]

I really enjoyed where you at at the i-3 with 6600 comparison.