New FIRST WATT SIT 4, compared with SIT 3, F7, and PASS XA25

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac 1 minute ago *Yes, in more conventional designs the wattage goes up as the impedance goes down. Nelson Pass First Watt amplifiers are unconventional low power designs. This 10 W amplifier @ 8 ohm, 5 W @ 4 ohms weighs 32 pounds! It is extremely well built, and I talked about how it worked with high and low sensitivity speakers in this review. That's it, if you want a Nelson Pass amplifier where the wattage goes up when the impedance goes down, the pass labs amplifiers do that!*

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Won't power 20.7s 😮

[@myself61607]

I alwaIys come back to “Source first”. It was only after getting the extremely revealing Kii Three speakers that I discovered how important the streamer and connecting usb cable are. Pachankolabs and Luna solved that.

[@Hiluxtaco]

It must be nice being a good friend of Nelson Pass..

[@bobsmoot8454]

The ARC SP3a cranks out 25 volts with ease plus it has tone controls and a contour knob which helps dial in a great sound for listening to tunes so that smile and boogie factor is achievable. On the production of First Watt, Nelson use to hand build them himself, it was about building somewhere between 100-250 units I think, so those discontinued models have some exclusivity to them. He uses the same chassis and heat sinks and maybe transformers. That SIT4 transistor is capable of huge output, but Nelson’s chassis and heat sink limit the power output, so that transistor is barely turned on in reality it will last until the next millennium, thanks for the review. Nelson, as a designer, is top of the heap, the gold standard, Class AAA++, no one comes close!

[@alfagerup]

Hi Steve. First of all, thank you very much for your good reviews.!! 👍 🤗 I do not know the exact circuit construction of the amplifiers you describe here. But I know that high wattage does not necessarily mean high volume. Nor does it necessarily result in a high "umpfh" effect in the bass. Since watt output power of course is a combination of voltage x current. And since high amplifier output VOLTAGE often results in larger "head room" in the sound, this, even if the amplifier can only deliver limited power (which is possibly the SIT 4's limitation / problem), may well result in a larger "soundstage" than what a amplifier which can deliver less voltage but more current.. and perhaps therefore can deliver more output power (such as First Watt F7) will be able to. And if the connected speakers don't require a lot of current to sound good, they will often enjoy being supplied with a slightly higher voltage than usual. So they can convey the higher "head room" and thus "live"-like performance than if they had to settle for lower voltage. But what does "Pops" / Nelson say about this possible explanation for your experience of the SIT4's better "impact" in the sound, compared to the F7's ditto? Many greetings from Alf - Denmark

[@stimpy1226]

50 years ago I was using an audio research SP 3A-1 and a D-76A boy do I wish that I never sold them. They were musical.

[@fletchermunson6225]

I remember in college when I got my first blues records including Butterfield, john Mayall etc, and I was hooked. There was something so different from the other kiddie rock of the time like something subversive, or down and dirty about it that I loved. I cant really describe my feelings at the time but it seemed like music that had been hidden and now discovered, authentic and gritty. I'm doing a bad job describing it but the feeling grabbed me.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Fletcher, you did a great job describing how the music moved you. Thanks so much.

[@richardelliott8352]

there is a documentary movie on Butterfield " horn from the heart" named so because that was how he described playing the harmonica. I recommend it without reservation.

[@bryanherr1093]

Thanks for sharing your experience Jim!

[@fletchermunson6225]

It got down to Norwegian Wood or Dust my Broom or Good Morning Little School Girl. McCartney or Mahal.

[@rawheadjim]

Thankfully my brother gifted me his Threshold Cas-1 power amp that was designed by Nelson Pass when he worked for Threshold. It's from 1980 with 70wpc, and matches well with my Schiit Freya+ pre-amp to drive some Zu Omen Mark II speakers. You can tell I've been heavily influenced by Steve as I pieced my system together!

[@jawaka1000]

David Bowie's LOW was not produced by Brian Eno!!! Tony Visconty was the producer for Low, Heroes and Lodger.😊

[@johnpischedda6951]

It's Visconti .

[@TriAmpMyFi]

@@johnpischedda6951. Fuuggett-about-it pisan

[@TheDjcarlos67]

@@johnpischedda6951 how pedantic

[@johnpischedda6951]

@@TheDjcarlos67 Really Carloz ?

[@Lutznn]

Thanks Steve! Would really love to hear this amp.

[@michaelvaladez6570]

Would love to hear this..as Steve Guttenberg gives a very exciting review. What would wee fo without Steve Guttenberg..your impression of this system commands your attention. This post is greatly appreciated.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks Michael!

[@grechan]

I had an F2 (S/N 009) for a long time. Similar to this SIT 4 it was 10 WPC into 8 and 5 WPC into 4. I bought it because it was rated so, so low for noise and it had an absolutely black background that made it sound really nice in certain applications. I ended up trading it but it was a lovely sounding amplifier.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks for sharing, yeah I never heard any of the early first watts.

[@philipadams8615]

Excellent as always 🎵

[@chordasamindow]

Steve, love your vibe, respect your taste. Thank you. I'm wondering if you could at least touch on some important specs related to system matching and synergy with the gear you review, such as gain, input sensitivity, and impedance (input and output), rather than just focusing on raw power. For the SP3 and the microZotl, this may explain some of the differences you heard. Similarly for the SIT-3 and SIT-4. Most audiophiles give these specs short shrift, but they really do matter when putting systems together. I demo'd the SIT-4 in my high-efficiency system and because it has 20db of gain, I was able to use a passive preamp, which is my preference these days. I ended up buying the LTA ZOTL40+ amp over the SIT-4 because of its higher refinement and lower power consumption, but I agree that the SIT-4 is a legitimate tube amp competitor in sound quality! $5k is a bit steep, though.

[@Mr_J_J]

I’m assuming that you didn’t since it wasn’t mentioned but it would have been interesting to run the Mola Mola Tambaqui directly into the SIT-4. Mahalo!

[@5thlevelweb887]

New Nelson Pass amp - woohoo! I wonder about this for Martin Logan ESL's, though. Edit - not at 5 watts into 4r ... :/

[@asan1050]

Thanks much for posting.

[@mikrophonie5633]

Eno did not produce Low, Tony Visconti did, with Bowie. Eno did come up with many ideas on it, however, and he stated that he pretty much wrote and played all of Warszawa, when Bowie wasn't even in the studio.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks

[@Jack96993]

Interesting about the ARC pre amp being 50 years old and doing so well I still have my ARC LS15 tube preamp that I bought in 1996 and still going strong and sounding fantastic

[@arjay5582]

Hey Steve, great reviews. Sooooo is the difference between a SIT-3 and SIT-4 so great that owners of SIT-3 (like me with TAD ME-1s) should upgrade to the SIT-4 with the attendant expense, etc.?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

That's a tough call regarding an amplifier swap, but maybe a preamp upgrade might be a better way to go!

[@Cocteau61]

Maybe @@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Maybe keep both if you can ?

[@thomassaner2478]

Steve, you’re killing it. I’m happy with my John Atkinson recommendation. NAD 3050 Budget component of the year oh Bowie hunky-dory Lo-fi (replaced my rega and my nak) great stuff Nelson pass just Uber expensive

[@markaprill6501]

I was just playing Stevie Wonder records from the early 70’s. Good stuff.

[@willblomker1393]

Reach around to turn it on - noted.

[@vladimirdorta6692]

For those surprised that the SIT-4 puts out less wattage into 4 ohms than 8 ohms, about half of 17 Nelson Pass' First Watt models do likewise.

[@weatheranddarkness]

Decware stuff is similar.

[@JingoLoBa57]

Synergy… the magic holy grail 🎉

[@OgamJan]

I love the purism and experimental nature of the First Watt amplifiers. I wish I could afford them, but still enjoy hearing about them in your reviews.

[@Nils31199]

You could build them yourself for much less

[@OgamJan]

@@Nils31199 I don't think they are available as kits, although it would be a nice project.

[@Nils31199]

@@OgamJan They are. Even the more exotic ones. Search the diyforum. The luDEF for example is greath if you are after the SIT3. You could even build it better with clc power supply etc.

[@bluesoncamera]

Thank you Steve for Paul Butterfield , wow you do love music 'first' may be you' ll try field coil open baffle also once , bit closer to horns keep the music alive !

[@andrewweis5857]

The Audio Research preamp pairing is interesting. I'm thinking a slightly more modern but not recent Audio Research line stage with a simple circuit like the LS7 would be interesting as well though the cool factor of the SP3A is undeniable. The obvious thing with regard to speakers would be to look to high efficiency but I would rather try it with a pair of ProAc Tablette Reference 8s. That system could be tasty, no offense to your speakers.

[@pdj49]

I'm curious how the First Watt SIT 4 would sound with Steve's Zu Dirty Weekend 6 speakers. It seems like with the Zu's high efficiency and sound signature that they would be a nice match.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Sorry, I did use the DW6 with the SIT 4! It's a fantastic combination.

[@BlankBrain]

It would make sense to tri-amp, with the SIT 4 for the high end.

[@stephenstevens6573]

I'm confused...the 4 ohm output is half of the 8 ohm, as opposed to the usual double??

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Correct, Nelson does it this way in this design, not true for his other First Watts.

[@mw3640]

Well, the J2 is the same way.

[@ronniefranks4351]

Nelson is the man. His designs are almost always destined to sound great. I’ve never heard of the output being lower into 4 ohms. Live and learn.

[@musicnexo3114]

Steve.. Who made the restoration work on your Audio Research preamp? I have the SP9 and SP 14 and believe they need service. Who do you recommend? Does Audio Research take this units to their factory for a revamp?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Novalux worked on the SP3 facebook.com/novaluxstereophonic or contact Audio Research directly

[@johnvincent4048]

Steve, I have 1990 Klipsch La Scalas and drive them with Quicksilver Horn Mono tube amps. I also have a Decware SE84UFO amp. How do you think the First Watt SIT 4 would pair with the La Scalas?

[@Cocteau61]

very good question

[@Pixeltrainer]

Beautifully!

[@daverombouts2116]

Loving my Pass Second son of rushmore Sr2, never knew Nelson had made speakers 😊

[@stillaliveandwell5291]

Wouldn't it be nice for Nelson to provide his thoughts, although like you said everything is ad hoc in this hobby and best to hear components etc. in our own systems. My real question involves open baffle speaker placement. Clayton Shaw on his new website for his last open baffle speaker says the room must be symetrical (unrelated to actual dimensions) so that there is the same distance to all walls for each speaker. I cannot tell from your photo snippets if this is the case with your PAPs and wonder if you have any thoughts on this. This symetry would be next to impossible in my set up unless l reorient almost everything and can live with a speaker just inside the front door to the apt. I'm about to try this with my Zen Acoustic Adagios though it won't be easy.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

My PAP speakers are both the same distance from the wall behind them, about 3 1/2 feet, the left speaker is about 5 feet from the side wall, and the Right speaker is about 15 feet from the side wall. It's fine. Hey, if you wanna do all that work to re-orient your room, I'd love to hear a few think it was worth it.

[@stillaliveandwell5291]

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac 😊 That's exactly the dimensions of my current set up so good to know it works with open baffle! You did not mention the seating location distance (probably have done that elsewhere) I have only about 7 1/2 feet from speaker to sitting position and an acoustically treated wall about a foot behind my head. I am going to construct a removable partition wall that will equalize the dimensions for the most part but obviously not as sturdy as a real wall. The re-orient process will actually be ok once I'm recovered from recent surgery as the speakers are on special sandboxes I built (got the original idea from Arthur Salvatore) that I added metal bottoms to and then waxed them with car polish so the whole thing slides quite nicely (for being over 100 lbs. each!) on the 3/4" thick wool rug over tile over concrete slab. Gaia II installed as well on the slab in the sandbox. Only one speaker needs to move. Happy to report back.

[@CORVUSMAXYMUS]

Amazing video

[@TheKravmonster]

i'm wondering how well the sit-4 will match up with my speakers (line magnetic 812 iconic). the specs are: Frequency response:37Hz~20KHz, Input sensitivity:102dB, Power:40W, Impedance:8Ω. what do you think (given the relatively high impedance.)

[@jasonyang3589]

Hey Steve, how does the SIT4 compare to the F8? I own the F8. Is there enough to differentiate between the two amps to own them both?

[@melbguy1]

The SIT-4 mono's should be good when they're released. But the nagging gap in FW's lineup is the lack of a linestage and phono stage which NP will hopefully fill in future.

[@JingoLoBa57]

Maybe the ARC SPA 3, should become a standard wild card in your reviews

[@hilde45]

Has every new SIT amplifier been better than the last one? In your opinion.

[@supercompooper]

I'm thinking if getting a pair of amplifiers to drive a pair of Heil tweeters. What do you think these would sound like?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

That would be great. But why do you need a pair of amplifiers to drive tweeters?

[@supercompooper]

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac My plasma tweeters on my acapellas have to get some repairs so while they're out I can fit a pair of heil's in their place. Before I build an analog crossover for this tweeter I was going to use mini DSP to determine the best slopes and pad for it to blend with the acapella horn.

[@Rahul-ql7cm]

Hey, I have a question that is boggling my head. I've gone crazy I've watched over 100s of audiophile videos. Now l'm convinced to buy a pair of high end wired headphones and dac and amp (if necessary for the pair). But end of the day I'm a movie guy. Does Netflix sound any better on my iPad with all the hifi headphones and dacs. Or is it just like watching a KZbin video on 144p on an 8k screen. Does high end headphones really make a difference or am I better off with Bluetooth headphones if I'm watching Netflix on my iPad. (The question here is regarding the app and the audio it outputs )

[@SounduSleep]

I'm going to build a Aleph J from diy audio. Can it wait till it's done!

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

That's fantastic, let us know what you think!

[@christopherspiro9857]

Your first watt surly won’t be your last watt. Ha! One day I’ll own a pass labs amp for sure! Thanks for the video.

[@kris.ell.b.7768]

OK.... If you listen to side 2 on Low, it will ALLWAYS sound good.... Because that record is so good it transend any HiFi setup.. But tell me, Is the output stage a Push-Pull stage, or is it like a Resistor-transistor output? (is it both P, and N-transistor in the output?) Because when you showed the inside, I only saw one big transistor pr. channel...

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

The output is single ended

[@BicycleJoeTomasello]

So I take it if the great big rocker switch was on the front, it would degrade the sound? Hard to believe, but I've seen who make some engineering decisions like this for sound reasons, other than aesthetics. I'd like to take the leap of faith and build one of his kits. But my soldering skills are not what they used to be

[@geol7408]

I suspect the case Nelson buys has the rocker switch in the back so that's where the switch is. He likes the case so we reach around. Not the worst reach-around situation I can think of.

[@BicycleJoeTomasello]

@@geol7408 I really won't have to worry about it. I was thinking of running them as mono blocks lol, but it's unobtainium $$$

[@paulrudolph8469]

Did you listen with your Cornwalls? Like viewers below, would like to get an idea of this amp with Klipsch.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Sorry no, please understand most of this equipment, including my references, are on loan to me. The Cornwalls were returned years ago. That said, I'm sure the SIT 4 would be a great match.

[@paulrudolph8469]

No worries Steve! Thanks for the review and getting back to me.

[@CheekyFest]

the headphones are on the table in the 2nd picture

[@7029100]

Probably Steve noticed them in the Patreon's private content 😂 Sorry Steve I couldn't resist 😅

[@greenlanternseven]

Hello Steve awesome ch sir , my name is Scott from Canada and I love audio like yourself and I was curious about something. You changed your Klipsch Cornwall s for O B speakers and I know how good they are hence you changing out your Klipsch, did you ever try tricking out the Klipsch Cornwall s with dampening materials better cable and Crite crossovers. ..a fella on KZbin did this and he says there's nothing better and upgrades were well worth it ...have you ever heard a pr of modified Klipsch Cornwall s Steve ? Enquiring minds wanna know hee hee have an awesome day Steve

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks for watching Scott. I do not own these speakers, they are on loan to me. I return them to the manufacturer at some point, so I really can't modify them. And I felt I had spent enough time with horn speakers, I wanted to move onto Open baffles

[@freekwo7772]

I have a suggestion that could be interesting - bi amp with SIT3 and SIT4 if possible…

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Usually it makes more sense to use very similar sounding amplifiers for biamping. Three and four don't sound alike.

[@freekwo7772]

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac ok, thank you for the response. Now I get it even more…

[@mw3640]

The First Watt amps are amazing, I have owned the F7 and now the J2. However, I just changed to speakers with an impedence of 5 ohm and a sensitivity of 88db and the result was disappointing. The sound kinda fell apart, which makes sense: the way the J2 is constructed just was not enough to make the speakers justice. If you are thinking about buying a First Watt amp, take speaker matching into consideration. I am now selling the J2 for an amp with better synergy with my speakers.

[@1974UTuber]

The output numbers you read off don't make sense. Doesn't the output go up with a lower ohm speaker?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Yes, usually the wattage goes up as the impedance goes down. Nelson Pass first watt amplifiers are unconventional designs. This 10 W amplifier for eight ohms weighs 32 pounds! It is extremely well built, and I talked about how it worked with the different speakers in this review. That's it, if you want a more conventional amplifier where the wattage goes up when the impedance goes down, the pass laboratories amplifiers do that!

[@dank.6942]

How many times in one video can a person say reach-around, before I start smirking? Answer 2

[@billirby2541]

My job involves words and the meaning they communicate. Your comments on context were, as good on the subject as I’ve heard or read. Context is king in all communication.

[@jac8828]

All the First Watt and Nelson Pass I have tried sound very good, yes, but they run extremely hot, you cannot even touch the cover. Anybody? Is only me?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Yes of course, they are class A designs, so they run hot! If that is is an issue, there are cooler running designs out there. If there's one thing I have learned in my life in the Audio world it's that everything has strengths and weaknesses. Each buyer decides for themselves which way to go

[@dbert5963111]

the price seems a little excessive.

[@davewin1792]

Paying for the name. Poor value.

[@mkshffr4936]

Nelson has a way with sand.

[@goodsound4756]

The power switch on the back is so inconvenient… (the older you get)

[@HappyHighwayman]

Why is this the only amp that gets less power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms?

[@stevejones8660]

It’s not.

[@HappyHighwayman]

@@stevejones8660 It's usual no? Most 4 ohm amps I see do 50-100% more power vs 8

[@Johnny-Too-Bad]

I think it sounds a lot like an F8 according to your feedback.

[@tomwinchester55]

I have on of Nelson Pass's amps that they use to make in his amp building cases....anybody want to buy it?

[@davidsteiner7155]

That much for 10 watts. I guess it'll work for the 100db speekers kinda guys. Not my kinda rig I like a amp that has some meat on the bone and speekers have to be 85db or less. All that efficient stuff just sounds anemic to me.

[@mikeday62]

Curtis Mayfield 'Super Fly'.

[@tonykazz2779]

HP was this hobby's greatest writer The Audiophiliac is this hobby's greatest Audiophile I had three great amplifiers : Conrad-Johnson MV45a , Elecrocompaniet Ampliwire and the little Stereo 35 . The Schiit Asgard 2 & Vahalla 2 were better than all of them while driving Sennheiser HD 580,600 headphones . Koetsu & ProAC tablettes, Magnepans and Sennheisers were the finest transducers. Phew, $$,$$$.00 prices today seem prohibitive No wonder Schiit is a success !

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks Tony!

[@earl007]

How can “ cool “ be relaxed ?

[@hagbard72]

Who am I to disagree. Well, the price for one.

[@rabit818]

First Labs need a better font for their brand

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Sez you, First Watt is very successful doing it their way. But if you don't like the font, that's cool! They'll do fine without you.

[@rabit818]

​@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac A great sounding amp and the weak link is the presentation/font? First Labs can go to the local art school and a student will be more than happy to design their branding/logo :)

[@TheMirolab]

Sorry…. No matter how great it is, I cannot fathom the putting of the power switch ON THE BACK! This is not a budget product.

[@dougg1075]

Man I wish I had a spare five grand

[@lanx0003]

run so hot?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

class A amps run hot

[@markaprill6501]

5k if you are wondering.

[@seanb3303]

IMO you shouldn’t be using such heavily colored preamps to review a power amp. Something like a Schiit Saga S should be used because you want to hear the power amp…not the preamp.

[@ericmc6482]

OCDHifiGuy just did a demo with a directly connected variable output DAC.....Yes spectacularly good. These SIT amps might need such clean source.

[@seanb3303]

@@ericmc6482 exactly my first instinct would not be to add more distortion to a zero feedback amp…unless you love a soft sound that lacks attack.

[@michaellichnovsky8397]

The LTA preamp has very, very low colouration. It’s very neutral!

[@seanb3303]

@@michaellichnovsky8397 the LTA is a zero feedback high distortion tube preamp. It is of course colored. That is the point.

[@tothemax324]

Yep, using a Khozmo passive pre (relay type) clean and more natural sound, the pre gets out of the way.

[@weatheranddarkness]

this is new? And he's still using that terrible font on the front? haha

[@Carl-bd1rf]

$5000 for 10 watts per side humm…ya NO!

[@mediascapes2011]

Audiophilia should get confused with salesmanship.

[@David-w2z2w]

Considering the parts count and flimsy case work $5k is ridiculous for this amp.

[@richardelliott8352]

Parasitic electrical drain. while I understand the thinking of designing stuff that is always supposed to be left on, it might be time to leave that concept behind as wasteful of precious resources at a time where excessive consumption is damaging the planet. just put the dang switch on the front and plan ahead. Yes , even just a couple of watts is not unimportant in the aggregate of power consumption. My state has asked everyone to disconnect wall warts and everything drawing power when not in use, to help ease reliance on the power grid, important to head off brown outs on days with a lot of air conditioning demands, fuel consumption, and the resultant pollution. P.S. I am a great supporter of high efficiency speakers, they make life so much easier . power hungry speakers are about to ruin my life, my wallet might sue me for cruel abuse if I ever get beyond the upgrading my amplification planning stage.

[@stevenkoski228]

Blues isn’t high-energy music🙈💩.