New Garden Of Eden Insights feat. Bruce Porter

[@ClintThomsen]

THIS. IS. NUTS. I think I just learned more in 45 minutes about the creation/garden than I have in the rest of my life. Bro. Porter has definitely done his homework. Fascinating stuff. Keep bringing him on your show to blow my mind.

[@kurtiszobell7799]

@@ClintThomsen wave

[@siljatanner1318]

Yup. Mind blown, for sure. I had to listen twice.

[@ChapinaUSA]

53:40 satan teaches to “cover” our sins with shame and secrets. Christ teaches us that He covers our sins with His atonement and we need not be ashamed.

[@michaeljhuntsman]

When we start seeing the commandments as the means by which God blesses His children is when obeying commandments becomes a joy

[@savinarasmussen4391]

And the commandments are a shortcut to becoming who we came here to become; the quicker, safer, happier way to become like our Savior and our Father in Heaven. They are like a warm blanket that reminds us how much we are loved by God and that He designed this plan for our success.

[@Kindiah]

Something I learned that I love is happiness is not feeling good, but living a life that is rich, full, and meaningful, a life of purpose. When I remember that, it truly is the plan of happiness. We must remember the meaning and purpose of this life!

[@sagegallagher]

I agree. Happiness for me is the joy of being "covered" by Christ's atonement. All the hard things that I experience are made good through Christ. That makes me feel happiness even while I'm heart-broken over some of the trials I'm experiencing. Maybe the plan of joy would better describe it.

[@AllisNotWellinZion]

I vote we start calling the plan of happiness, The Joy of our Redemption. For example, "Hey neighbor, would you like to hear about The Joy of our Redemption?" This was a fascinating and mind expanding discussion.

[@safrew1]

Love it!!❤

[@andriy457]

There is no plan of happiness , it’s called Plan of Salvation . That is first lesson missionary teaching And it’s name of first pamphlet

[@carmenfarmer337]

I know what you're saying, but i just heard a talk the other day by Dallin H Oaks, I think that first called it the Plan of Happiness too. One in the same, I guess. We learn a lot through the years that's not included in all teaching manuals. @andriy457

[@cameljaque]

I started about a month wondering if Joy is another name for or title of Jesus Christ. I like your take on a name beyond Plan of Salvation.

[@AllisNotWellinZion]

@@cameljaque Thanks. I think you're right. Christ is definitely synonymous with Joy. Our Savior is He who dispels darkness, crushes monsters, and ushers in joy.

[@Crochet_bro]

Sorry for blowing up the comments. I think that Christianity in general, does not understand the concept of submission. A few years ago Elder Paul V. Johnson gave a conference talk and in it he said, "When you follow Satan you give him power. When you follow God He gives you power." After that talk I started wondering how the Lord empowers us when we follow Him. Then I started wondering if we, as his servants, can empower those people we are called to lead/serve. The answer was a resounding yes. The scriptures are full of examples of people submitting to the Lord and His servants. Like was mentioned, submission isn't a form of unrighteous dominion. Among other things there are two things Christ wants for us that aren't in opposition to each other. 1. He wants us to become His equals. 2. He wants us to submit to Him. We can't accomplish the first thing without the 2nd thing. The Lord tries as seldom as possible to step in and help us through our issues. He wants us to learn, grow and make correct decisions. In this gospel, everyone has to submit to someone else. Even the Prophet has to submit to his Bishop and Stake President. Men who are the sole provider for their families have to submit to their supervisor if they're not self-employed. Will submitting to the Lord's mortal servants leave us disappointed at times? Yes. As when Nephi broke his bow, even though his father had acted less than infallible, he submitted to him. Lehi, being the good man he was was humbled by this act and repented and was able to empower Nephi to accomplish his goals. While all this is true. We shouldn't submit to people who do not strive to be Christ-like. They will leave us feeling powerless instead of empowered. Ever since I started understanding what "submission" really is I made more of an effort to submit to my priesthood leaders and to my supervisor at work. They are all good, yet imperfect, men. I have grown in capacity and spirituality. I feel like the Lord is also personally empowering me as I submit to His servants.

[@safrew1]

This is such an insightful comment. Thank you for sharing.

[@curtiste3235]

Yes! Great comment!

[@gayewillis1965]

❤❤❤

[@brb5506]

Wonderful comment. Those who are self-employed submit to the market for their product or service. Or they starve.

[@lorig2881]

I also relate this to submitting to covenant agreement to gather Israel. This empowers people on Earth, but Temple proxy work gives priesthood power to those who accept the gospel on the other side of the veil. This means more power in the Spirit world.

[@matildabanana3516]

Bruce Porter is my favorite guest of yours!

[@kristinrichmond8185]

You took the words right out of my mouth! The spirit speaks to me when these two have a conversation. I no longer will be surprised when it happens. 😊

[@dianacline1439]

Such great insight.

[@SouthernAngel]

When Eve asked " is there no other way". I feel like it's not to the person in front of her. I've always felt like it's a prayer to God. It's just something as a woman that I've felt in my being. Just a thought. Great video Greg and Bro. Porter! Thanks for sharing this inspiration. It's got me pondering and that's how I grow.🙏

[@sophiamcl]

Eve was beguiled in the sense that Satan did not tell her the whole truth, however, both the book of Mormon and the temple text clearly indicate that there was more to her choice than just "yeah, I'll have a taste". She considered it and realized it was the only way forward. There is also symbolism in her being the first to partake -- she, like every mother, is the passageway to mortal life.

[@jimconner3105]

A careful read of Moses also shows that it's possible Eve was not given the law to not partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Only Adam was given the law. She would have been told by Adam to not eat of the fruit. It's very interesting.

[@commanderpurple5228]

She tries to get Adam to partake by using the physical characteristics of the fruit and not with it's spiritual benefits. She is beguiling Adam. Give Eve credit but she was not acting with all virtue.

[@BestMuzick]

@@jimconner3105 I think I realized this along time ago. 66 now. The first time in realizing this as a young mother I asked myself did I just understand this correctly. Was it just Adam that had been commanded in this thing. We all, individually, need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord and with the Lord…what might be a commandment for one may not be the same commandment for another. She realized this, not Adam. All generations were impacted by her choice… was a very necessary decision on her part. I’ve wondered when it was Adam realized this… right away or did it take him awhile? Those have been my thoughts for years. I do not believe I’ve ever shared these thoughts with anyone but the Lord.

[@jimconner3105]

@@BestMuzick I love it. I do not look down on our ancient parents. I appreciate them.

[@Love-ashedid]

I am glad to know that we still are not sure of all the answers to what really happened and why, not just me. Question: Is satan doing what he is “ supposed” to do even though it is wrong. He is part of the plan in all worlds?

[@genericyoutubeuser3828]

I appreciate this so much. This idea of Eve knowing is deeply disturbing. One of the reasons I find Eve having foreknowledge distressing, is because the Adam is clearly acting as a type of Christ in the garden. Christ was perfect and did not need to suffer on this Earth. But he looked down from Heaven at his bride (the Church) who had sinned and would be lost, and he had compassion on her. And he chose to become a mortal man and suffer death to save his bride and bring forth righteousness. Adam likewise hears the distressing news that Eve is to be cast out. And instead of forsaking her, chooses death and suffering to save and protect her. He, like Christ, decides that loyalty to the one he’s covenanted to is worth more than eternal comfort. He decides to suffer as a mortal man and experience death instead of abandoning the one he promised to protect. Adam’s choice is exactly the same choice that Christ made. They both chose to leave the presence of God and suffer death and pain for their covenant spouse.

[@abfavero]

Exactly. The bride is not her own but was bought with a price

[@lindamartinez7006]

@@genericyoutubeuser3828 you don’t have that exactly right .

[@genericyoutubeuser3828]

@@lindamartinez7006 Expound away!

[@TheDovesNest]

It's just like the Ketuba from ancient Hebrew wedding rituals! He covenanted to save his bride if she was ever taken into slavery.

[@safrew1]

I think you're missing something. Keep asking! ❤

[@mrbrian87]

It’s easy to get sad and wonder why God does not live among us and why it feels like he abandoned us but when you think about deep topics like this it really builds my testimony of how incredibly smart God is. The human body is a miracle upon a miracle, as is also the sun, the atom, etc. . But to also say God has created time and space means He didn’t just find elements and learn to use them, He designed each one, He designed electrons, quarks, photons, etc. . He designed nuclear fission and gravity itself! It really brings hope that if a being that intelligent created all this, then He must have some purpose, and I can rest assured and trust that He knows what he’s doing and I don’t need to worry.

[@tomasina10]

Amen and Amen …Exactly what I got from this podcast

[@FalconFastest123]

These discussions provide such rich depth and understanding that I wish every member of the church could hear them. Thank you CWIC!

[@gemelindacjp7976]

A Native American guest on another LDS podcast talks about their creation myth where everything is given a name and a *purpose.* I thought that was an interesting connection. Having a purpose seems to go along with having an identity.

[@franciegwin]

I like the chief! Before he showed up online or I was introduced to him I was so interested in the native American religious beliefs. How similar they are to ours!

[@phadrus]

Checkout the Nemenhah book, if you haven’t already.

[@paigeschmidt7542]

I loved this presentation so much!

[@jacobnelson9144]

Chief is interesting but i have a hard time listening for to long because of hatred of white people. ​@franciegwin

[@hispeedbullet2661]

The words “fill the measure of their creation” come to mind and strongly imply that each creature has a divinely appointed purpose.

[@AshtynJadeProduction]

48:00 “We’ll keep him out of Scouts…”😂😂

[@HeathStowell]

@@AshtynJadeProduction I know!!! He says it so nonchalantly that you almost miss it😝I laughed too!!!

[@brandiw752]

The word in the Hebrew text that was translated as BEGUILED does not mean “to trick” but rather “to cause one to think deeper.” Eve realized they couldn’t fulfill the higher law without transgressing the lower and so she made an educated decision. It helped that the commandment not to partake was never given to Eve, but to Adam.

[@jeffwhipple2658]

I watch all of your videos but I love it when you have Bruce Porter on. He should have his own Playlist!

[@primafacie5029]

Agreed

[@asarg1776]

He does have his own channel. And he has an app.

[@robynmills5534]

Bruce is by far my favorite guest on your podcast! So good. His knowledge is invaluable. Thank you for having him. Great stuff!

[@casualobserver9113]

I absolutely love when you have Bruce on the show. Thank you so much for this discussion. It was very enlightening.

[@CwicShow]

Thanks for listening

[@zuludaddy4695]

The apron has 9 leaves on it, which I believe is symbolic of how many covenants we make in the endowment. I’ve begun to think that the apron, suggested by satan to fashion and cover our nakedness, is an acknowledgment of our inherent weakness as mortals, but weaknesses which can be contained and controlled by the covenants we make.

[@rican8316]

The end of all activity in the Church is to see that a man and a woman with their children are happy at home, sealed for eternity. -Boyd K Packer

[@mikelight2008]

Greg, good reading and questions. This responds to your question on the seeming logical interruption in the scriptures: You referred to where the Lord God says, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." Right after this, the scriptures seem to shift focus to the creation and naming of animals, which feels like an interruption. But if we take a step back, something incredible emerges. God says, “I will make an help meet for him,” then proceeds to form every beast. But note this: “for Adam, there was not found an help meet for him.” Here’s the key point-none of the animals were suitable as Adam’s help meet. It's as if God was showing Adam-and us--that no other creature would suffice-none were “meet” for Adam. It’s a powerful lesson, though hard to grasp at first. Seeing no fit, that none were “meet” among the beasts, God then creates a new "help meet" from Adam himself: "bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh." This emphasizes how unique and special the woman was-no other being in creation could fulfill that role. To tie it all together, notice what God does after creating the woman. Just as He brought the animals to Adam to name, He brings the woman to Adam. Adam recognizes her, and as with the other creatures God brought to him, Adam names her "Woman, because she was taken out of man." The pattern is the same, there was no interruption in the scriptures, but the significance level is much greater. When viewed this way, there’s no logical interruption. In fact, it reveals the depth of the narrative: God’s process highlighted how beautifully and uniquely suited the woman was for Adam, and how special she should be to all of us. It only seems like a leap for us because we’re so distant from the perspective presented in the scriptures.

[@IdaPendleton-mn5hh]

Thank you for this information. It helped me understand more. I also never liked "The Plan of Happiness" either. I've suffered more in this life than I thought possible. Then I realized that the joy comes from our redemption as President Nelson taught. However, it's been difficult to understand how to get through the terrible pain, even with faith in my Lord. I'm afraid if I knew my life before I came, I may have chosen to stay. I still have questions about my life, but some day I assume I'll be iinformed. I'm thankful for death as long as I can be with the Lord. ❤

[@RobertBriggs-h5x]

@@IdaPendleton-mn5hh Romans 8:20 the whole chapter is edifying.

[@lorig2881]

I know my view could offend, but I say this with love. Full disclosure, my childhood was not wholesome or safe. Instead, poverty, sexual abuse, neglect, and danger were part of my very young life. Adulthood included drug addiction and alcoholism (25 yrs clean and sober now). I feel like I met individually with the counsel, and we reviewed the strengths I had developed in the pre mortal, my weaknesses, and the challenges I would face based on other peoples’ use of agency on Earth. I agreed to trust in God’s plan, be obedient on Earth, and turn challenges into strengths through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

[@robincrow6436]

​@@lorig2881 ❤ Thank you for sharing your insight on difficult beginnings and divine purpose. I rejoice to know of your freedom from oppression and addiction today❣

[@robincrow6436]

Dear Ida, I loved reading the elements of your testimony and hope in Christ. I pray for your continued strength and vision. May you be blessed to grow daily in your ability to bless others by your steadfastness, faith and courage. Thank you for helping me today. ❤😊

[@mikeflanders2173]

I too have had a life of suffering. I also have experienced the joy of the gospel. If all you have is 20% one day then give that 20%. You are doing great!!

[@jenniferwall399]

First of all, y’all have got to listen to Dr. Jack Logan’s podcast, ‘The Ancient Tradition. ‘ She gives astonishing insights into the creation, the symbolic theologies and what it teaches about the Fall, about a Savior, and so much more. Then a seminary teacher taught me (and it’s been a minute lol😅) but the most was that a ‘transgression’ is different then a ‘sin’ and that Adam and Eve, of course, had their agency and had to use that agency to choose into mortality. Therefore, God could not ‘command’ them to chose something that would make them mortal and bring them into a state where they could sin (as they were innocent in the Garden). It was all part of the plan, and Satan’s beguiling provided the needed opposition. Elder Bruce R McConkie said the following that resonated with me: Twelve Apostles shared the following insights about the interrelationship between the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement: “It is not possible to believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice, in the true and full sense required to gain salvation, without at the same time believing and accepting the true doctrine of the fall. If there had been no fall, there would have been no need for a Redeemer or Savior. And it is not possible to believe in the fall, out of which immortality and eternal life come, without at the same time believing and accepting the true doctrine of the creation: If there had been no creation of all things in a deathless or immortal state, there could have been no fall, and hence no atonement and no salvation. The Father’s eternal plan called for the creation, for the fall, and for the atonement, all woven together into one united whole” (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith [1985], 82).

[@kamiebushman4367]

This was a great discussion and I'm very grateful to Bruce Porter for sharing his knowledge with us. I do wonder if we have an accurate translation for the word begile, though. The perspective on Eve shared here hinges on the fact that begile means when we think it means in English today. The Hebrew is not as cut and dry. Dr. Nehama Aschkenasy says the Hebrew is a rare verb form that is almost impossible to translate. Quote, "it indicates an intense multilevel experience which evokes great emotional, psychological, and/or spiritual trauma" and that the biblical narrative "makes it clear that Eve was motivated by a set of complex inner drives, anchored not only in her physical, but also in her intellectual nature." I take no offense here, but I do believe women can understand Eve in a different light than men do. I personally have had many moments as a woman when I have cried out, "is there no other way?" knowing that doing what was needed to help those under my stewardship ascend would require a personal descent and suffering on my part. I know that feeling of looking the impossible sacrifice in the eye and doing it anyway because it is the right thing to do and as a woman it is my stewardship to do it. Those moments of condescension are when I have come to know very personally the love and power of the Savior, because He is the one who makes the experience redemptive for all involved. How many of the details Eve knew or was instructed in, I cannot say for sure, but my heart tells me that the very fiber of her being as a woman KNEW what she needed to do - to condescend herself so that the entire human family could ascend. There was something in Satan's temptation that was absolutely true and needful and therefore not a deception - to obtain KNOWLEDGE. As a mother raising my children in this world today, I always lean towards giving them knowledge and the framework for that knowledge rather than sheltering them. Somehow I know in my gut that this is of far greater value. I can relate to mother Eve in this way as well. Lastly, "knowledge" is rich with meaning and points towards Eve's desire to gain the tangible experience required to become as her Heavenly Parents.

[@jenniferwall399]

Yes!!!!!

[@mikeporter6952]

….”we’ll keep him out of scouts”….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣!

[@GaryLArnell]

One of the most powerful lessons we learn from the endowment's version of the creation story that we don't get from any of the scriptural accounts is that after Adam & Eve were given the commandments and constraints, they were told by God that he would return to give them further instructions. Adam & Eve's failure to trust God *in spite of that promise* and deciding instead to hearken a) to the adversary, and b) their own logic, instead of waiting for God's promised instruction that is a central message of the temple endowment that I think is often lost on those who attend. In other words, the fall as it occurred didn't necessarily have to occur that way. Adam & Eve weren't left without context or choice. They could either wait for the further light and knowledge God had promised to send them OR they could heed the adversary's promise of further light and knowledge through disobedience to God's explicit command. As the narrative progresses, Adam & Eve rightly eschew Lucifer's continued advances. They learned their lesson. That sequence contains powerful lessons for all of us that we can see playing out in our own lives every day.

[@BTGordon]

@@GaryLArnell I appreciate this insight, however, I don’t think you are in a position to declare with any authority, beyond opinion, that it is the “central message” of the endowment.

[@JohnK-uq8xw]

​@BTGordon me thinks you need to re-read what the post says instead of jumping on the I know more than you bandwagon without contributing any valuable retort.The post simply says one of the central themes. Surely you can't find fault with that statement can you?

[@lorig2881]

I have often thought this too.

[@lindamartinez7006]

The temple also teaches that the fruit or the plan was first offered to Adam . That is not in any scriptures . It was first offered to Adam. Adam says no . Then it is offered o Eve who sees there is no other way . Eve then offers it to Adam then Adam sees this must be . Also we see in all the scriptures that God only commanded Adam not to partake of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. God never commanded that Eve could not partake. Please go read it carefully . God command only Adam not to partake as Eve had not been made yet . Just Adam. So I do not agree with the fact that God wanted them to wait for further light and knowledge . As Eve was supposed to find that further light and knowledge by partaking from the knowledge of the tree of good and evil . As we see doves coming out of that tree . Meaning the Holy Ghost teaching . So they both did just as planned . Exactly as planned .

[@lindamartinez7006]

Hey guys come on now . Kolobe is just another name for Jesus Christ . Jesus Christ is Kolobe . Go look at the words to beautiful savior and the words to if I could hie to Kolobe in he twinkling of an eye . Who changes you in the twinkling of an eye ? Who is closest to God? Jesus Christ .

[@Coreyofthemtn]

One of my favorite topics. Bruce is always a joy to listen to. Have you read a Discourse from Orson Pratt called Visions of Moses? He goes into some detail on some of the topics here. Particularly why the fall had to occur the way it did. He points out that God’s perfection limits him from creating Adam in a mortal state. That had to be self imposed. He also goes on to indicate that the command to multiply and replenish was given to them as immortal beings. Thus creating the necessity of saving everyone and linking together their posterity so that they could keep that commandment (to multiply and replenish an immortal posterity. Fun listen!

[@safrew1]

Excellent

[@bheer98]

What a great, fresh take from Bruce! I love when he's on; his ideas are not radical, nor are they outrageous, but some of them do run counter to reactionary traditons we might spin up to justify why our beliefs seem a little different from creedal Christianity. From my study and pondering about the creation story, I think he's spot on with everything he's said.

[@rican8316]

Yeah!! Bruce Porter!!!

[@wtfschindler]

@@rican8316 Bruce is effing gangster!

[@dawnireland3677]

It seems like the fall and bringing the knowledge of the fall and agency into the lives of Adam and eve( and us) was such a significant thing that then transitions us from premortal life to mortal life, with the plan of salvation, that the apron is an important reminder to us all how we arrived to this state. It leads us to the place where we are able to choose, make covenants, and through life, have the experienced that teach us opposition and ultimately gives us an opportunity to freely return to gods presence.

[@dawnireland3677]

It’s the point where we gained knowledge of our own nakedness, which is the point where we can learn and grow in a way that innocent children cannot. It covers the parts that develop on a body physically and allows for ultimate creative processes in mortality and beyond. I’ve been asking myself the question recently- what is that apron? What’s its meaning? Perhaps it has many meanings and different meanings depending on the person. I still don’t know. But it does come into play at the critical point where immortality shifts into mortality and the agency to chose with an ability to more maturely understand why we are doing what we do is now available to us. It is a stage in our development and maturation process, where we honestly can be seen by God and ourselves what is truly inside our hearts through independent choice. It’s a symbol of what we all were waiting to do- come to earth and learn for ourselves. And I’m not sure that would have happened without the fall from innocence. Feedback??

[@dawnireland3677]

I do remember in the past about the discussion about the apron representing priesthoods and or powers. Certainly it may be a point were we can finally choose to enter our own priesthood…of our own free will, and with that covenant with god and find directing in mortality that will lead us to exaltation. ?

[@KW-qx5bo]

The fact that the apron is wrapped around the loins makes me think that it is associated with procreation. Gifting a physical body to a spirit could be a conference of a priesthood. If a priesthood is a form of power, then our physical bodies certainly gave powers to our spirits that they didn't have before. There have been ideas spoken about in other youtuber's channels concerning the matrimonial covenant /preistesshood. The preistesshood gets us here, and then the priesthood gets us back. Hence, the old idea that being a mother was on an equivalency with holding the priesthood.

[@jimtucker7161]

I think the apron represents, from Adams point of view, our role in our salvation. Like the Hebrews understand the sacrifice of the fruits of the field vs the blood sacrifice which represents JC's role in our salvation. From Satan's point of view. It's his plan, which is to save man without the necessity of JC as a redeemer.

[@rosemarypalikaboothby9829]

Brilliant discussion Greg and Bruce💯%❤ I must admit I was one who believed Eve was all about moving onward and forward. But, after your discussion, I thought about Lucifer introducing the “fig leaf” in a different light. For one, his belief that he held the priesthood (fake it till you make it). Secondly, his lack of understanding the love of God as opposed to the natural man. Our bodies are beautiful, lovely, and of “good report.” Therefore the word ashamed is Lucifer’s way of introducing guilt as opposed to humility. Finally, the fig leaf is a sign that we are to look for in the second coming. Jesus cursed the fig tree because its leaves were plush, beautiful, (fake it till you make it) and ripe for the picking. Maybe we might consider our own path of whom we shall follow. Thank you so much for your insights and words of wisdom because I learned so much about the subject matter💯%. God Bless Adam and Eve for taking on this momentous responsibility. I just love them.

[@kurtiszobell7799]

Thanks!

[@CwicShow]

You’re welcome. And thank you.

[@BTGordon]

Joseph Fielding Smith taught: “It was shown to the brother of Jared that all men were created in the beginning after the image of God; and whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our heavenly Father. True it is that the body of man enters upon its career as a tiny germ or embryo, which becomes an infant, quickened at a certain stage by the spirit whose tabernacle it is, and the child, after being born, develops into a man. There is nothing in this, however, to indicate that the original man, the first of our race, began life as anything less than a man, or less than the human germ or embryo that becomes a man.”

[@lukeslc-xd8ds]

Excellent point!!!

[@brit0309]

Every person in this video is an amazing human being. I love this one. It has so much good stuff between humans to be happy for in the pain. Also, the host is very articulate and in touch with emotions and feelings. I also like his voice. 😊

[@gingermcgovern5682]

Satan does not say the he has been doing what God has been doing on other worlds. He says he’s doing what has been done on other worlds. The new wording is very specific! Notice the capitalization of words too it’s interesting!

[@jimtucker7161]

Not quite sure what ur saying. I'm guessing ur referring to the temple. If not I'm sorry. But it's my thinking that what had been done on other worlds was done by God. But this world becomes unique because Satan posing as JC gives the fruit to Eve instead of Adam choosing for himself. As was his right. Thus subjecting himself to Satan's power.

[@aussie3215]

Wrote this just before the end where Bruce shares the same thoughts Thought this discussion was marvellous Re the Plan of Happiness I too always thought this badly named but over the years I have thought the Happiness comes from the Christ's redemption/atonement for me. He offers a person like me the possibility of a Celestial life... I am sure happiness will truly lie there ❤

[@curtiste3235]

Perhaps it's the "happiness" of delayed gratification. Or, in this case, delayed "glorification" after a period of growth and testing. It's like the contrast of Credit card debt of the big-spender vs. compound interest accruing over the span of ones frugal working years.

[@denisebagley2342]

Heart makes so much sense with the commandment to be one. The rib is symbolic to protect his heart

[@deborahrhodes4892]

THE KOLOB THEOREM makes good sense of this topic, including time.

[@FreeThinker-n1t]

I loved this discussion. Thank you.

[@twizzles659]

This such an amazing discussion.....loving it

[@juiceweezle]

"Adam fell that men might be..." perhaps this isn't a statement that it had to happen this way, but a declaration of how it happened. Adam was presented with a situation where Eve had partaken of the fruit. From Adam & Eve's perspective and understanding she would no longer be able to remain with Adam. They then reasoned that in order for Adam to remain with her he must partake of the fruit as well. “Now go and get Adam to partake... Is there no other way? There is no other way.” So Adam's reason for choosing to partake/fall was so he and Eve could remain together and fulfill all of Father's commandments... "that men might be". Could Father have presented additional understanding? Might the plan have included an alternative? Perhaps, but that's not how it happened and probably isn't the first priority to understand/learn regarding mortality and obtaining exaltation.

[@safrew1]

I love this thought and would add the question if God has created worlds with out end did they progress in different ways. Did the other Adams and Eves wait upon the Lord- avoid the Beguiling? Or did they choose the same? Was God surprised by Adam's and Eve's choice- like ever?

[@sarahjensen2664]

Oh man. I have alway dreamed to do a travel thing with church instruction like this but we just don't have the funds since my husband went to school and covid. We got hit. Maybe one day. Thank you for sharing these things. I love to learn and take these things into my life daily.

[@DerGlaetze]

I have great love and respect for Bruce Porter.

[@sherielink601]

Wonderful podcast! So enlightening

[@justjamie6458]

In my opinion Eve's error was not so much that she ate the fruit (which she did too soon) but that she harkened to the wrong/false authority.

[@RamathRS]

This is *exactly* it.

[@andriy457]

He have authority to tempt us and apron is symbol of his priesthood and authority, it’s not false it’s different Her Error was disobedience

[@justjamie6458]

@@andriy457 Satan's priesthood is a false counterfeit of his own making. It is not the power and authority of God.

[@curtiste3235]

​@@justjamie6458 Exactly!

[@regularmarc]

I've thought about this as well. I believe there are very deep, important things to be contemplated and understood about the opposition of the tree of knowledge of good and evil vis-a-vis the tree of life and that this particular choice was meaningful for Satan to tempt Eve to partake yet, ultimately, the choice to listen to and act according to Satan's urging is an act of obedience...to Satan and therefore an actor of disobedience to God. We tend to think of "falling" for temptations as a sort of "woopsie. I just made a mistake". But in reality it is an act of obedience to the voice of Satan and, as the scriptures say, one can not serve God and mammon. One can not serve two masters. It makes me think of the temptations of Christ in the wilderness. Yes, there is instruction in the nature of the temptations themselves. Powerful things to consider there. But I think that easily overlooked is that Satan was trying to get Christ to do ANYTHING in obedience to his voice. Doing so, regardless of the action itself, would be to obey Satan and voilà, you've just rejected and separated yourself from God by sin. You can not serve two masters.

[@incogneato790]

My personal thoughts on the Fall: God doesn't lie or deceive, when he told them He didn't want them to partake, He meant it. Also, Satan knew the plan, he was there when it was laid out and he was not made to forget anything. He also was not trying to help God's plan roll forward, he was trying to undermine it. So, Eve is not some kind of hero for partaking the fruit. She was as a child and deceived and so she is blameless. God was prepared for it, but it is not what God wanted. It would also be unjust of God to punish Satan for doing what he did if Satan was actually doing what God wanted, and I really doubt God would make a plan that would fall apart from people obeying Him. If Eve had refused to partake as Adam did, I believe they would have had more time in the Garden to grow and advance spiritually. Likewise, we would have had more time in the pre-existence to advance as well. Keep in mind that Christ, who was the firstborn spirit of Heavenly Father had more time than any of us to advance, and even reached godhood before the creation. He was able to come here and live a perfect life because he was more spiritually mature. While a knowledge of good and evil is needed, sin is not a required experience. Anyway, if Eve refused Satan, I believe at some point God would deem them ready for the accountability that comes from knowing good from evil and allowed them to partake, and things would have been better. What Satan did pushed them to be accountable before they were really ready for it, and so we have sin and Satan has great power to get us to sin. I also believe that thanks to the atonement of Christ that in the end the outcome will be the same for each person either way.

[@joepiloto]

It’s just unfortunate President Nelson doesn’t understand this. See his conference talk Oct 93. He seemed to think they did understand and was not fooled or tricked (beguiled). And the Book of Mormon must not have been translated correctly when it says she was “enticed”. Hel 6:26 2 Nephi 2. Pres Nelson: "That leads us to the fall of Adam. To bring the plan of happiness to fruition, God issued to Adam and Eve the first commandment ever given to mankind. It was a commandment to beget children. **A law was explained to them. Should they eat from “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:17), their bodies would change; mortality and eventual death would come upon them. But partaking of that fruit was prerequisite to their parenthood.** While I do not fully understand all the biochemistry involved, I do know that their physical bodies did change; blood began to circulate in their bodies. Adam and Eve thereby became mortal. Happily for us, they could also beget children and fulfill the purposes for which the world was created. ** Happily for them, “the Lord said unto Adam [and Eve]: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden” (Moses 6:53). We and all mankind are forever blessed because of Eve’s great courage and wisdom. By partaking of the fruit first, she did what needed to be done. ** Adam was wise enough to do likewise. Accordingly, we could speak of the fall of Adam in terms of a mortal creation, because “Adam fell that men might be” (2 Ne. 2:25)." But that's a long time ago, maybe he's changed his thinking? Or maybe he just converted Pres. Eyring to this thinking? [“For instance, it was Eve who received the knowledge that Adam needed to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge for them to keep all of God’s commandments and to form a family. **I do not know why it came to Eve first, but Adam and Eve were perfectly united when the knowledge was poured out on Adam. “ Pres Eyring Oct 2018 “As President Eyring pointed out, it was our glorious Mother Eve-with her far-reaching vision of our Heavenly Father’s plan-who initiated what we call ‘‘the Fall.” **Her wise and courageous choice and Adam’s supporting decision moved God’s plan of happiness forward.** They made it possible for each of us to come to earth, receive a body, and prove that we would choose to stand up for Jesus Christ now, just as we did premortally.” Pres Nelson Oct 2018] And then there was Elder OAKS who must be far afield by hearkening back to Pres Nelson: (but then ,we are taught in the temple "these things are best understood by revelation) : "As Elder Dallin H. Oaks, an apostle of the LDS Church, has said, “Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! **Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her *wisdom* and *courage* in the great episode called the Fall.” ** [6] President Henry B. Eyring has expressed, “[Eve] helped her family see the path home when the way ahead seemed hard . . . You have her example to follow. By revelation, *Eve recognized the way home to God.”* [8] And she and all covenant keeping women are declared "clean - every whit" in the temple, while men are invited to "become clean from the blood and sins of this generation". Certainly the devil "enticed her" because he wanted to get things going and was doing that which had been done in other worlds. Yet it appears here that she did not sin, nor did she make the choice because she was beguiled (fooled or tricked) but because she came to the knowledge of what needed to be done - thru revelation - and had the courage to do it. As the Mother of All Living, her transgression, for which she has been forgiven, was a fully understood choice, for which we honor her and refer to her by this title.

[@ReachingForTheBrightestStar]

Cool insight-God creates bodies from elements applicable to location and purpose. Could make a body to withstand the power of the sun if meant to live there. Certainly can (and will) give us resurrected bodies immune to sickness and incapable of being damaged or dying. God is amazing!

[@denisebagley2342]

If it’s his side,, it’s his heart

[@joshuaerickson8888]

I’d like to have the Talmudic reference to Abraham doing everything Adam did, please. That is very interesting and profound.

[@safrew1]

Yes! I would as well.

[@deathbykungfu]

Greg when are you gonna pull that guitar down and play it for us

[@knelson3326]

I’ve always wondered if Greg’s bumper music isn’t his own creation.

[@juliusschwencke142]

..always wished it was either a Gibson or a Fender, but the Gospel is still true. Greetings from Downunder.

[@ranjanty]

I asked him that long ago. Perhaps it is a home made guitar. You can buy them as a kit.

[@justbob2133]

Hey Greg, I've wondered the same thing about your bumper music... Is that you playing the guitar? Either way, it sounds great. Also, just to echo so many other comments, this was an enlightening interview between you and Bruce. Well done to both of you!

[@explorerofmind]

Any time you create something out of dust, you have to add water to get it to stick. In the Garden of Eden we had the Waters of Life coming out from the tree of life. It also formed as a mist that watered the whole garden. When we left the garden of Eden we traveled away from the waters of life and became dust again.

[@RonDoty-i7z]

Fantastic. What a joy to watch. Thank you.

[@CwicShow]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@keithsmith5998]

Many Native American ceremonies involve an apron also.

[@swampfaye]

If you watch the Pearl of Great Price in ASL (and the temple ceremony) The sign for help meet found an answer in ASL (just so you know, the church is very careful how they translate scripture into ASL, so I know it's inspired). helpmeet is the signs: companion/support/move forward together/side by side - these are the same signs they use for the word in the temple as well. (the man and the woman)/move forward.There is a sign for "helper" in ASL and it's not the sign that the church uses for "helpmeet."

[@swampfaye]

Watch Moses 3 in ASL on the church website.

[@denisebagley2342]

The tree grows in our heart, we feed the tree with the sacrament. Then we eat the fruit of the tree in the garden that gives life

[@incogneato790]

I think with Eve's remarks about being glad they transgressed has to be understood in the context that she was speaking based only on what she had experienced. She and Adam fell, and how experience the joy of redemption. She had no revelation on how things would have gone if she had rejected Satan's temptation to compare against. The joy of redemptions is in reality the joy of being reclaimed from the Fall.

[@safrew1]

Great comment 👍

[@OmahaAreaLoya]

This isn’t an argument for or against anything posited in this episode, but I think it’s worth mentioning we should be careful not to force interpretations upon the scriptures so they match our current sensibilities. The truth is whatever it is, and we need to hold out and recognize the possibility that the truth might not sit well with modern norms and expectations of what is good or fair. But then again, maybe it all will. I’m just saying we should not proof text the scriptures to align with our preferences.

[@safrew1]

Thank you ! ❤

[@CwicShow]

You're welcome 😊

[@elainekoeppel7250]

It says in the temple endowment that when Adam awoke he was then as a little child not remembering what he once knew

[@LouisUtsch-lh4jt]

Could it be that the key difference between the commandment to not partake of the fruit vs. breaking any other commandment was that disobedience to the first commandment was only disobedient in a celestial sphere but not disobedient in a telestial law? To explain further, eating the fruit moved their kingdom down a few notches to where more eating of the same fruit was okay in that (telestial) kingdom. Hence what could be a difference between "transgression" of a higher law vs. sin against the current given law.

[@Justin-u9p]

What is he talking about at 7:44? Discourse on the avaton? Am I spelling this right? I can't find any info about this anywhere, can someone please help me? I'd love to look at it.

[@shauradaudt]

I also would like to read it. But didn't find anything in my quick search. Please direct us to where we could find it. 🙏

[@CliffTOtis]

What is this discourse of the book of the abaton??

[@jeffturner5555]

In this episode you are talking about names. What is your thoughts about being given a new name in the temple? What is the purpose and meaning for this to take place?

[@mattwebb8234]

Yes she was beguiled. Then Adam was as well. This is what happens when we don't trust God's TIMING. He always planned to have them partake of the fruit so they could multiply and replenish the earth. But that shouldve been done at the appropriate time. Ecclesiastes 3 . Satan interfered with the plan but did not change the end result. Apply this to your life. You'll make mistakes but can overcome all of them with your relationship with Jesus Christ and trusting in His Fathers timing.

[@unholywarrior9007]

Adam was not beguiled....1st Timothy 2 14 kjv and Adam was not decived but the woman being decived was in the transgression.... there is things we over look all over in the bible

[@LegalAlien80]

​@Yes that is what I have been taught through all my Seminary and Institute classes ect. The explanation as to why he partook was and is taught, but is also pretty self explanatory if one looks at the plan of salvation. 🙂unholywarrior9007

[@TruthBTold90]

@@THEREFORMISTPlease don’t take a persons random KZbin comment as official church doctrine. Many things stated online are incorrect teachings and opinions about the church. No one is cherry picking anything. Whether LDS or not, the world is largely scripturally illiterate. That’s why Bruce Porter is top notch. He’s scripture based, well read, and a true disciple.

[@mattwebb8234]

​@@unholywarrior9007deceived and beguiled are different. Beguiled = charm or enchant someone. Deceived = CAUSE someone to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage. Eve certainly BEGUILED Adam. Eve was at least beguiled but we could apply DECEIVED to her actions.

[@TheJanesaw]

Spot on!

[@trendingvibes280]

Great discussion

[@kathypearce9958]

I am female and I have never gone along with the fact that people think even knew what she was doing. I’m not cutting down Eve, but she was beguiled and who does she ask if there is no other way, Tan and his the father of all lies so there had to be another way. I also agree with Bruce and I’m glad somebody finally noticed that they were blessed to multiply and replenish the Earth as all the animals were blessed. It was not a commandment. It was a blessing that their bodies could function in the sphere in which they were created. There are not contradicting Commandments. The only commandment given was do not partake of the fruit of the tree..

[@sherriedix5837]

I love this so much!

[@drbcherry]

Are you familiar with Eric Skousen’s “Earth in The Beginning”? If so, what are your thoughts on his thesis ?

[@theresasoaft2201]

Yes Adam and Eve are seeking the knowledge of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s why Adam is offering prayer. He trying to access the Lord. In the temple drama once they receive teachings from the proper authority they’re down by the waters to receive baptism. Then they enter into the covenant path as we know it.

[@sendlazarus430]

Thanks, Greg!

[@mruss31415]

I had come to the same conclusion about the "conflicting commandments" @ 40:00. Glad I'm not the only one! I don't think having children was a commandment. It was a creational/design command of God, not a moral injunction of Adam and Eve.

[@Adam-ww8ei]

I was recently reading the Wikipedia page on “cosmic dust” or sometimes called space dust. Basically the material in space that is not stars or asteroids or large bodies. It says the dust is made largely of organic molecules or in other words it is carbon based. This kinda blew my mind when thinking in terms of “from dust thou art and to dust ye will return” Genesis 3:19. The term dust is very interesting to me

[@safrew1]

Matter unorganized? 😅 Thoughts?

[@Adam-ww8ei]

@@safrew1 that’s what I’m saying lol

[@gleefulbiker]

Speaking of Adam's naming of the animals, could that possibly be also an indication that by naming them, thus knowing their names, that is what gives him dominion over them?

[@Seek-God-First]

Insightful and interesting, and makes perfect sense.

[@ScottDavis-gm3re]

Time is reflective of change. Without change; time doesn’t factor… doesn’t exist. Relativity is dependent on change … on difference.

[@safrew1]

Yes!

[@cameronreed1411]

2 Nephi chapter 2

[@taleemeacham6661]

Sometimes these great episodes makes me feel so stupid 🤦🏼‍♀️🥴😂

[@CwicShow]

We're all here to learn. There aren't many Bruce Porters in the world.

[@alisamuir9864]

I’m interested in reading the discourse of the Avaton? I’m not sure how to spell it.

[@brendamartin3444]

Eve’s “Now I see” statement, shows that the Spirit was helping Eve understand the context of the things satan was saying to her, the Spirit is the person who helps all of us have understanding of truth, without the Spirit Eve would not have “seen” Eve is our example for listening and obeying the Spirit when it prompts us to do something, or in this case, both understand and do something Through the Spirit we can all “see” and then act on the new truth we now see…

[@halsmith7642]

When given the opportunity as here with this subject I like to speculate that God made Eve from one of Adam's XY chromosomes-ribs giving Eve two of the XX to make her female and Adam having the XY making him Male.

[@CwicShow]

I've thought this for a long time as well.

[@MoietyVR]

I mean, the X is "one side" of that pair. Rib is not expressly said in the "original" text, instead it is "side"

[@lorigifford4589]

I have thought this as well. There are 22 chromosomes that look basically the same as far as pairs yet the sex chromosomes look different. The males chromosomes have one long one and one very short one.

[@halsmith7642]

@@MoietyVR that still works, for chromosomes, maybe even better.

[@CryptoSurfer]

The creation of Adam is figurative (this was expressly taught in the temple before the endowment was shortened). How is anything brought to life? (again refer to the endowment) Why was Jehovah not given the job of doing it? That job was left to Elohim. Why, because he had the power of creation because he (and she) had bodies. Entropy doesn’t apply because of the priesthood not because of time. Interesting thoughts, but one needs to study the book of Abraham in conjunction with the endowment. Time is a tricky thing because things are done in order, that means some things were before others and some things come after. This by definition means there is order to things and thus some representation of time in some form. For God, it’s not so much that time doesn’t exist but rather perhaps it is irrelevant because he has immortality and eternal life.

[@safrew1]

Great thoughts

[@vaughangarrick]

No. Eve was the one who understood that they had to move forward. Adam was the hesitant one. So if beguile is the word you want to use then fine, but it moved things forward...just remember, If it were up to Adam, who knows how long we would still be waiting. That's why leaders have said that the women of this church are the Christians while the men are the theologians

[@commanderpurple5228]

She was beguiled and then she went and attempted to beguile Adam.

[@melvinensahbunduka2791]

what's the name of that discourse again that Bro. Potter was mentioning? I would really love to have a read of it.

[@Bigblue16]

Bruce- any insights into the reference to Satan as a serpent and God putting enmity between Satan and man and having the power to crush thy head vs bruise thy heal? What does that statement even mean?

[@curtcrowley6659]

20:55 is this related to time dilation?

[@Silvereagledude]

Great stuff

[@jamesdavidray2468]

This reminds me about Joseph saying if the heavens have not been opened to a man he knows nothing on the subject. Revelation is the rock that can be built upon.

[@CwicShow]

Find me a quote

[@denisebagley2342]

Be fruitful probably means to grow the fruit in your heart together. Think celestial

[@jimtucker7161]

Help me out. I don't know about the fig leaf's connection to a sign of the 2nd coming? I thought JC cursed the tree cause it didn't have fruit. A metaphor for Israel being Baron of fruit. What do the leaves which don't appear on the fig tree until after the fruit does, have to do with the parable?

[@evaherrey5038]

🤔 please tell me where can I get a hold of the discourse of the Avington… not sure about the spelling please help me. I’ve looked everywhere.🙏❤️

[@MoietyVR]

You should do an episode talking about Karma and how the gospel is NOT a karmic system. I know so many people that see the good in their lives to be a direct result of their choices. Yes, there are promised blessings for certain behavior and actions but when we attribute all our blessings to our behavior we will start to question everything when bad things happen. Believing in a karmic version of the gospel can invite a nasty sense of entitlement and cause people to judge others as deserving of their plights. Cause and effect is real, covenant promises are real, but Karma is not.

[@b_rodskin4834]

Quoting from my own patriarchal blessing: “Ever know the great philosophy of the Book of Mormon in connection with righteousness which yields prosperity and blessings, and also of wickedness, which does not bring happiness and which has to bring humbling.” That being said, I think there’s a balance that has to be struck. Because yes, it can be unhealthy to conclude to karma, but it clearly is a reality that righteousness brings blessings as well as weakness bringing humbling. But I think the real key is understanding, natural law and consequences. I think too often we “Gods doing” to too many things. Whether good or bad. Anyways, I appreciated your comment. It’s actually something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately as I’ve reflected on my lack of funds in light of my hundred percent tithe paying. My knee-jerk is to believe in karma but reality is I’m just bad with money. #joking #notjoking

[@safrew1]

​@@b_rodskin4834I need to read your comment today. I appreciate your example of humility. Thank you.

[@tomasina10]

True concept and hard to remember . The biggest test of my life was put into a “karma “ sense …my family “ deserved “ one thing and the person who did it to me “deserved “ another because of HIS perceived righteousness . False thinking . He “deserved “ to take my families inheritance because of his supposed “righteousness “ over who the rightful heirs were regardless of church attendance. It was dismissed as being ok to take because one was more “righteous” than the other and should be rewarded with material possessions .

[@MoietyVR]

@b_rodskin4834 Karma aside,Tithing is a commandment that comes with promises, and I have personally seen those blessings disappear when I become complacent with putting off my tithe.

[@mrsjonse]

This is a great interview full of wonderful insights. Thank You both. Some additional thoughts... Is it possible that beguiled can mean two things?: 1 being presented a lie--alternative point of view--opposition... which is acted upon (successful beguilement) 2 being presented a lie--alternative point of view--opposition... which is not acted upon (unsuccessful but useful beguilement) In Timothy it says that Eve was in the deception and Adam was not. Is it possible that this means that Adam gave no consideration to the beguilement--he just "rotely" rejected it. And Eve considered the deception, thereby entered into the beginnings of agency (knowing good and evil), and then made a choice? I think Eve is already not listening to the "fiery darts of the Adversary" because she already sees that he is trying to get her to disobey Father. Additionally... Joseph Smith said "in the day thou eatest thereof" was a decree from Father. In other words the day is going to come, and I command it, in which you are to eat... just not yet. We all go through this in relation to our sexual activity: - childhood, no--you are not mature and ready yet. - marriage, Yes--now you are properly prepared. It also distilled one day that... - "thou shalt SUREL die" is a commandment and of God stating you shall die "IN Christ"--Surely or safely because of Christ--which is also tied to Christ coming forth by their having children--"the woman is saved in childbirth." - "you will not SURELY die" is Satan's command to not die "SURELY" IN Christ. He is saying... "You can die just like I did (spiritually) and you will be just fine... just like I am fine. God is lying to you." "Is there no other way" can be considered an expression of the internal conflict created by the beguilement as agency begins to have its genesis within her. But I am not sure that the fiery dart response of the Adversary is something she believed. His response was an a attempt to get her to believe his "you shall not surely die" lie. But she had already begun to see that the tree was good--"And WHEN the woman SAW that the tree was GOOD." These are the words of Moses and the Lord... followed by... "The man has become as one of us, to know good and evil." This suggests that when Eve "SAW.".. that it was by revelation in the midst of opposition. Women mature faster than men--Eve matured in her revelatory understanding of what was the right thing to do... and that it was now time. She became the "Mother of all living" both spiritually and temporally because she was the first to SEE the Spirit of the law... fulfilling the purpose for which the letter of the law--the original part of God's decree. Satan was not taking responsibility for his actions--doing the same as in other worlds. If the woman "SAW" and Adam came to "SEE that this must be" by reveltion... then in their interview with Father... to me, they were simply giving a stewardship report. As for the apron... I like what is discussed. I have considered that one of the things the apron represents is pride--which is essentially what Bruce suggests. In this... I think the apron represents this oppositional and essential knowing good and evil component of agency and priesthood power. Consider what we do with the apron in relation to the other Temple "clothing"... and how we finish the apron with a "bow"... like Christ finishing the most precious Christ-mas Gift or Endowment. Thoughts???

[@Hmcc0712]

Yes, Eve is the first to put Satan back on his heels and makes him defend his position. “You my brother and come here to persuade me to disobey father?” Also Eve wasn’t even created let alone there when Adam was told not to partake of the fruit. And that’s true in all three creation accounts.

[@Jamo12]

I tried to hear the answer, but I may have missed it. How is it not two contradictory commandments when God says, “Multiply and replenish the Earth”? And “Do not partake of the fruit.” Just trying to understand…

[@Hmcc0712]

Only Adam is there when god says not to partake of the fruit yet both are there when told to multiply and replenish

[@rustytaylor258]

This was great but I have something to add...in Moses 6:59 it says, "That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul..." We are born into this mortal world by water (amiotic fluid) and blood and the spirit (our immortal spirit put into this physical body). But the phrase "and so became of dust a living soul" (which is in Genesis) is code for the act of being born into a physical body. My guess is that Heavenly Father and Mother came to this sphere and partook of the physical elements (fruit?) which made it possible for them to produce twins...a male and a female...and those were the bodies of Adam and Eve. They may have been kept and taught in that heavenly home until their bodies were old enough to place them into the garden...then Adam is caused to fall asleep and the veil of forgetfulness covers his mind so he forgets everything that went before. The same thing would have happened to Eve, though we don't see it. She, also, had to have the veil of forgetfulness placed over her mind. So they had genetically pure bodies that could live forever because of who their parents were, but once they partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, their bodies "fell" and became telestial and could die.

[@VanessaDuerson]

Any thoughts or additional insights for what was meant by Eve with her question of, "Is there no other way?" She seemed to know and to have understood something from her significant contemplation that persuaded her to eat (though perhaps not in regard to having children like "tradition" suggests). Was it that she understood she needed to make the choice to die because it had been given unto them? Curious to hear thoughts on this. Further, what additional context can be given for the statement made herein that the blessing of multiplying and replenishing the earth then became a commandment around the time of Noah? I look forward to hearing additional insights and scriptural references. This has been a very thought provoking podcast.

[@joepiloto]

Pres Nelson: "That leads us to the fall of Adam. To bring the plan of happiness to fruition, God issued to Adam and Eve the first commandment ever given to mankind. It was a commandment to beget children. **A law was explained to them. Should they eat from “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:17), their bodies would change; mortality and eventual death would come upon them. But partaking of that fruit was prerequisite to their parenthood.** While I do not fully understand all the biochemistry involved, I do know that their physical bodies did change; blood began to circulate in their bodies. Adam and Eve thereby became mortal. Happily for us, they could also beget children and fulfill the purposes for which the world was created. ** Happily for them, “the Lord said unto Adam [and Eve]: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden” (Moses 6:53). We and all mankind are forever blessed because of Eve’s great courage and wisdom. By partaking of the fruit first, she did what needed to be done. ** Adam was wise enough to do likewise. Accordingly, we could speak of the fall of Adam in terms of a mortal creation, because “Adam fell that men might be” (2 Ne. 2:25)." But that's a long time ago, maybe he's changed his thinking? Or maybe he just converted Pres. Eyring to this thinking? [“For instance, it was Eve who received the knowledge that Adam needed to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge for them to keep all of God’s commandments and to form a family. **I do not know why it came to Eve first, but Adam and Eve were perfectly united when the knowledge was poured out on Adam. “ Pres Eyring Oct 2018 “As President Eyring pointed out, it was our glorious Mother Eve-with her far-reaching vision of our Heavenly Father’s plan-who initiated what we call ‘‘the Fall.” **Her wise and courageous choice and Adam’s supporting decision moved God’s plan of happiness forward.** They made it possible for each of us to come to earth, receive a body, and prove that we would choose to stand up for Jesus Christ now, just as we did premortally.” Pres Nelson Oct 2018] And then there was Elder OAKS who must be far afield by hearkening back to Pres Nelson: (but then ,we are taught in the temple "these things are best understood by revelation) : "As Elder Dallin H. Oaks, an apostle of the LDS Church, has said, “Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! **Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her *wisdom* and *courage* in the great episode called the Fall.” ** [6] President Henry B. Eyring has expressed, “[Eve] helped her family see the path home when the way ahead seemed hard . . . You have her example to follow. By revelation, *Eve recognized the way home to God.”* [8] And she and all covenant keeping women are declared "clean - every whit" in the temple, while men are invited to "become clean from the blood and sins of this generation". Certainly the devil "enticed her" because he wanted to get things going and was doing that which had been done in other worlds. Yet it appears here that she did not sin, nor did she make the choice because she was beguiled (fooled or tricked) but because she came to the knowledge of what needed to be done - thru revelation - and had the courage to do it. As the Mother of All Living, her transgression, for which she has been forgiven, was a fully understood choice, for which we honor her and refer to her by this title.

[@Hmcc0712]

How would she have had wisdom and courage if she was just tricked and made a huge error? In ancient language beguiled doesn’t have a negative connotation, it means caused to think really deeply. That doesn’t make sense. Also Eve wasn’t in the garden when they were given the commandment not to partake of the fruit. Adam may have told her but what does that mean? It has significance. The fact that that doesn’t ever get talked about at all, she was not even created yet let alone there!!

[@maryannstout7600]

I would appreciate it if you could have an episode on men having more than one wife. President Nelson gets complaints about his second marriage from people against the Church. They complain about President Oaks, too. As active members we understand but can you please do an episode on this issue? Thanks 🙏 😊

[@kristinrichmond8185]

I too would love that. And to be honest, I, as a fully participating member, don’t really understand it.

[@PilatesAnne]

All answers are found in Pearl of Great Price. Question: Did having more than one wife come from God or Satan? Answer Moses 44-51. Did Joseph write D&C 132? Answer in the in JST. Joseph knew David and Solomon were not justified. He was translating the Bible to bring forth these things. It is not a secondary issue.

[@karenpeaden271]

People outside the church or against the church. Marry again if a spouse dies… and they don’t believe in the ceiling power. They just want to find something to complain about

[@couragecoachsam]

@@PilatesAnneincorrect. D&C 132 answers these questions if you study it well

[@brendamartin3444]

In the beginning is “once upon a time”

[@larrainemoore1880]

I loved this. Then going to the temple, I felt like I got all the back story! I do have a question though about the mark set upon Cain. What exactly was it? It seems like the Church switched its stance on this one. Other Christian churches even faithful afro-Americans say that it’s okay to believe that it was skin color, just also that it’s okay to excel and even do well in your life and live a good life trying to do good. I really got a lot out this.❤😊 Thanks!

[@barbaraoyler557]

Bruce quoted a reference The Discourse on the Abaton...but I cannot locate this. Where can this be located?

[@bettydowd1088]

Question: How can I find the Discourse on the "Aveton" (don't know about the spelling)? I searched for it, but did not find it. I would like to read it.

[@savinarasmussen4391]

My humble interpretation of the fig leaf : Satan counterfeits everything, even the priesthood that he cannot have. The apron is his symbol of power and false doctrine. We wear the apron to symbolize that without Christ's Atonement and our accepting Christ and covenanting with Him, we would stay under Satan's power. As we make covenants with God we are given various powers that raise us out of our mortal state; the garment is one of those symbols that we are given by God, symbol that literally and figuratively represent Christ's power covering us. Wearing the fig leaf represents our lowest fallen state, and as we make covenants we receive power to raise above our fallen state with Christ's power and healing covering us, if we stay true to our part of the promises.

[@karatevideosandmore7685]

Elder Brockbank and I had a discussion on Adam's creation and he got pretty specific about it......and quite clear, and simply.......which leaves no room for any evolution.