NEW: Nakamichi Dragon 12" Sub (x4)

Correction, the twin 8-inch opposing woofers are 1200 as a pair (not each)
I go over the details on Nakamichi's new 12" subwoofer and the minor detail that you can buy four of them ... and they will all work ... at the same time ... and if you want all four it costs $8500 which (along with the sub ... probably) is trailblazing a new path in this market segment
Help a subscriber's gofundme: www.gofundme.c... (I can't personally verify the gfm claims so use personal judgement)
business: [e-mail]

[@neverenoughtech]

Correction on pricing: twin dual-opposing 8” subwoofers are $1200 not $1200 each

[@randymullins5525]

@@neverenoughtech if the original will carry 4 sub boxes....might get another 8 in set for back and roll with the 4

[@Lewis-jn8ry]

At over 8 grand you should probably just suck it up and by an traditional "entry level" Home theater setup with traditional speakers. Shit if you're that far into it, you mind as well drill the holes into the ceiling and add atmos.

[@neverenoughtech]

This is that limit case when burning desire for sound hits immovable disdain for traditional HT setup

[@floydefisher]

For 8 grand, I suspect it would be waaaaaay more than "entry level" home theatre setup. Unless you somehow think a MacIntosh amplifier and Wharfedale speakers qualifies as "entry level".

[@festerofest4374]

@@floydefisherExactly. 8 grand gets you an excellent system.

[@Mr.HotRod]

That's the easy part, (drilling holes in the ceiling) running all those speaker wires unless no finished walls or ceiling up yet is a giant p. in the a. Dragon, all wireless, simple is better when your 70. .

[@DonnieMulligan]

I think the real concern is when companies don't just exaggerate specs. but blatantly lie about them. The original Dragon did not have 4 subs and does not have 4 sub channels. That's just wrong. Two woofers in one box does not equal two subs. Notice the relatively quick pivot to a "Real" chest thumping 12" option to quiet the whiners. I wonder if they will keep the 4 sub/channels in the description, calling the passives separate channels. In that case, I've got a Golden Ear 4 channel sub all in one box.

[@joellouisfire]

Yep. Owners should get these subs included in their Dragon purchase. Take the loss and make it right to the customers that were lied to

[@its1me1cal]

I notice on their KZbin video introducing them they switched off the comments after they got so many bad comments “Nakamichi DRAGON Home Surround Sound System With Quad 12” Subwoofers”. I was really disappointed as I was sitting there, eating my popcorn, reading all the comments.😂

[@neverenoughtech]

I am surprised by how much anger this announcement brought out. I expected sell my house jokes but people been getting nasty. I though soundbar land was a safe space

[@MattyDaddy14]

I wish you’d log n to the “live chat”. 🎉lol

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@neverenoughtech Hi: Us Dragon System owners are a unique group.

[@888YouCantHandle]

I welcome the ability to add on to my devices,dragon included.

[@kenpauley9044]

Glad you are continuing with these reviews and will soon review the 12” sub (hopefully doing it now as others are receiving them). That said, an alternative solution has been created that I’m wondering if you might review as well. There are a few of us that are using a hack configuration of adding 12” SVS PB 1000 subs. The recent sale they had allowed us to purchase two of these subs for half the price of the Nakamichi solution. Someone in the group 3D printed boxes that hold the electronics from the original Nak subs which provide the wireless connectivity to the SVS subs. The SVS subs add additional tuning capabilities that you don’t get with the Nak. Not as easy of an out of box / integrated solution but the price is way better, the quality and performance of the subs could be better (your insight would be great for that) and just feels a little good to not have to give Nak even more money after we were kind of let down. Happy to provide more details on the solution if needed.

[@TheHookUp]

Welp, I think you know what you need to do: Buy 4 of these 12" subs and compare them to a Sonos system with 4x Sonos Subs (not the minis), 4 Era 300s, and an ARC. I promise it will be worth your investment.

[@neverenoughtech]

If the video equipment costs don’t at least get close to 15k, it’s just not worth the effort. They need to release that new arc thing which I don’t want to be called Arc 2 because that’s not different enough.

[@TheHookUp]

@@neverenoughtech Arcasim?

[@Vamanos46]

If SONY released the 12in sub x 2 to pair with hT-A9 /quad arrangements : I think it's game over for all.

[@S1mmz]

​@@neverenoughtechIt won't be. Will definitely be some new 3 letter word 😅 Although might be a 2025 release now with their failed app which looks like they are going to roll back.

[@rafars2246]

ahaha

[@MattyDaddy14]

Not sure if you noticed. But these 12” subs are actually REL S/812s!!!! Even down to the gold plaque on top!! Also says it has dsp with some crossover control!! So I’m thinking 2 8”s and 2 12”s with crossover set higher for the 8”s and lower for the 12”s. 🎉

[@neverenoughtech]

Gotta save bits and pieces for the real review - but you seem like an observant kind of fellow.

[@user-je8zy6yq7f]

I'm going to wait for the next version ! They rebrand the top of line Sennheiser and pair with the REL subwoofers. And they finally "make" a great soundbar !

[@floydefisher]

​@@user-je8zy6yq7fActually, they plan to hire Niro Nakamichi to design them one. 😂

[@Mr.HotRod]

At first glance i thought they looked rally really familiar without quite the glossy finish. REL makes some beautiful, high- end great sounding subs. and they aren't cheap either. That size probably more than the Nakas.

[@arthurwatts1680]

My neighbours would have me run out of town and I can't honestly say I would blame them. This is getting into the territory of folk who can afford a basement with sound treatment and that costs a whole lot more than 8500USD. Still, choice is good and I look forward to your review.

[@neverenoughtech]

I suspect buyers will be moderate and go with the 5600 option. Appreciate the comment

[@ridvan190333]

If, in the first mass woofer production, they had produced 2 woofers with 10 inch speakers in 1 cabinet instead of 2 8 inch speakers in 1 cabinet, there would be no need for anything now.

[@OzzyMandias]

So you spent 5 grand and now you find out you've only got Dragon Lite...😢

[@neverenoughtech]

Well if you want to frame it that way … then yes

[@SmittyAZ]

You know what happens when you have to be first.

[@888YouCantHandle]

Who spent 5k?

[@brosmile9388]

@@SmittyAZ 'Bleeding edge' we call it in the tech world.

[@brosmile9388]

@@888YouCantHandle Nobody

[@Runsteady]

Not going to lie, I feel a bit bait and switched by this announcement as one of the first owners of a Dragon. I wish they offered a trade up program for their customers at a price that makes sense. Granted I’m okay with the current bass setup, though I’m sure the new subs will pack the missing punch that I hoped the original subs had. I still enjoy my system and have intentions to keep it but I’m beginning to dislike Nakamichi. It all just seems like a cash grab with very little desire to build a loyal customer base.

[@neverenoughtech]

Yeah, I see that. Though it’s unusual for all in one box soundbar kits to be able to upgrade components. The Samsung and LG and others model is you would need to buy a new soundbar too. And the quad sub design doesn’t make it seem like they had the 12” as their real option from the start. My understanding is they conceived and pursued that option after a Jan 2024 customer clinic.

[@256alexdt]

Hello NeverEnoughTech, there's a DIY kit now to make the Nakamichi take any subwoofers. I would recommend since you will show the new subwoofers and you've showed in the past that you do make comparison like this like the Sonos. Let me know if you'd be interested to get one of those DIY kit so you can try any subwoofers like the SVS PB-1000 Pro with the dragon.

[@ЯрославЧеркашин-и4у]

I propose to test subwoofers of all popular models and draw conclusions. Content for you, and we're happy about it.

[@californiaballer]

Love your sense of humor. Though sometimes it’s tough to distinguish if you just want to be funny or if you make a sarcastic remark 😅. You liked the original Dragon system. Now you are ‘only’ $6,000 away from truly loving it.

[@neverenoughtech]

There is no distinction in what you’re referring to. It’s a serious character flaw

[@Aerith17]

Hey I'm in a studio apartment on the 3rd floor of my complex. Do you think this will be enough?

[@neverenoughtech]

It’s a good start … just keep the volume levels generous

[@mobettaspice]

This is a horrible feeling. The first systems was pretty impressive but I would of been so mad to find out I just bought the baby budget dragon 11.4.6 for 5 grand just to find out they came out with something twice and better for 8 grand.

[@neverenoughtech]

You can add to your system. You’re still in the game.

[@wilmerfuentes6402]

Mucho dinero para un systema de barra,pienso que NAKAMICHI haciendo algo asi ,están pensado más en ellos , que en los costumers,no asi no se puede, gracias por el vídeo 😜👍👍👍

[@shemsureshot]

I’m wondering whether this is the right sub for a third floor studio apartment?

[@neverenoughtech]

Confirmed

[@britainreynolds7365]

Great as always... I definitely should've hid in the closet though RIP that was way worse than I thought

[@neverenoughtech]

It’s what’s closets are for

[@TradingDom1]

Love this guy, love this channel. Highly informative and always humorous

[@S1mmz]

Usually Daniel is great, although this time round he seems part of the problem with the hype. Probably his worst video to date if I'm honest. Should be addressing the issues more than ramping up marketing crap with more hype. (Sorry I still love you).

[@paulh6517]

I dropped Andrew for Daniel. No regrets.

[@neverenoughtech]

@s1mmz, I appreciate the feedback. I stand by my claims that I think the dragon is special as a package. But I haven’t hidden my issues nor have I ignored complaints. The AR review is still pretty new so I haven’t had time to address all that - I usually don’t watch to maximize independence - this product may not allow for that. I have a job that supports my lifestyle that takes up the vast majority of my time so I do my best with my side hobby. I did amplify Nakamichis claims but far from 100% endorsed - “definitely claims in there” comment should make that clear. Also ive made it pretty clear that the price is out there. The review with the product is where I can grapple with questions more seriously

[@neverenoughtech]

Appreciate it

[@S1mmz]

@@neverenoughtech Cheers for the response. I think the biggest shock around the whole situation is the fact Andrew drops his review, then a day later Nakamichi announces new subs. It just leaves a very sour taste in your mouth. You should join the Facebook group, I'm only a member there as I'm friends with the Admin of the group as said before, I own the Bravia quads and have no issues. However, you should see how angry the members are and what was a very tight group has turned into absolute turmoil. I think what is very strange is apparently they already have 400 units of these ready to go in September. How do you make a sub so fast? Was this planned from years ago when the original Dragon was in r&d? Have they targeted a third party and then are branding the subs as their own ? There are so many questions and not enough answers. The new prices are absolutely hilarious and if I'm honest, I actually feel sorry for the owners, especially those who gambled on the original 500 and even more so the international members who took a gamble and paid a premium for shipping with a 1 year warranty. I'd like to say Nakamichi will have some form of happy medium, however, the further I go down the rabbit hole it doesn't look good on the horizon for how these bars have been made and who they've been made by, especially with the interface design and various other things. I can't really say much more but mark my word this isn't the end of what could soon turn into a messy scandal.

[@bernardmagri6405]

I am not in the market for a soundbar, but I just love your videos. Your sarcasm and jokes are the best on KZbin, plus I learn a lot from your videos.

[@neverenoughtech]

I appreciate that

[@RobWaller72]

did the subwoofer update you needed to download on a thumb drive and insert and install in the Dragon improve the bass? improve it to 20Hz?

[@neverenoughtech]

Will address in upcoming reviews

[@Mr.HotRod]

I did both firmware updates as did 90% of any of the Naka owners. Not sure about 20Hz improvement but I did notice about a 10% improvement on both updates.

[@ingrammcdaniel9799]

Simply..Buy what you can afford.

[@jaystarr6571]

7:15 *BEHOLD,....* My guy said _behold._

[@randymullins5525]

Can they be added to the dragon that has the 8 in? 2 of those in front and 2 8in in back would be amazing imho

[@neverenoughtech]

Yes 4 subs with any combo

[@MattyDaddy14]

Pricing question, PLEASE READ!! 🎉 I wanted to comment on this video rather than the other 2 for this subject. 🎉 Regarding the pricing: the dragon with 2-8”s is now $3299. Individual REL I mean dragon 12”s are on sale for $1,199. So if I do the math, I can buy the Dragon with. 2-12”s for $5,600, since you don’t get the 8”s with that, only 2-12”s, wouldn’t that make the cost for just the dragon bar and surrounds be: $3,200???? (With discounted sub price) that seems kinda not right? Unless the $5600 package comes with the 2-8”s AND 2-12”. Even with non discounted sub pricing, that puts the Dragon bar/surrounds at $2700!! For the 2-12” package. It seems to me that anyone buying the Dragon with the 2/4 - 12” subs is getting really screwed on the pricing!! 🎉 I hope this makes sense!! Was trying to figure out why it is at all worth buying the packages 12”s rather than buying them separately! 🎉 Also, if you read the manual, they even suggest setting up the 2-8”s up front between the bar and the 2-12”s as a preferred setup! IMO that could be a really awesome setup if you the dragon allows one to set the crossovers for the 8”s at like 30hz-200hz, then also allow for crossovers to be set at 60-90hz and down for the 12”s!! 🎉 Can’t wait to see your review!! Btw. If i had to pick any setup scenario, it would have to be the Dragon with 2-8”s and 2-12”s, otherwise I’d like to see the a dragon with 2 front 12”s and a 3rd 12” for the rear/nearfield. 🎉 Thanks for all your hard work!! 🎉

[@floydefisher]

Having had my room absolutely shake when using my Shockwafe playing the movie 'Oppenheimer'. I'm not sure I want to know what this thing would do playing that same scene.

[@neverenoughtech]

I think they showed you in their hype video -- complete ruin

[@brosmile9388]

@@neverenoughtech 😂

[@Mr.HotRod]

Played it many times to show friends. It BLOWS their minds. It is AWESOME!!!

[@billmulvihill8452]

@@Mr.HotRod Yeah, if all you want is huge sound. I hear that playing stereo music through the Dragon, is not a pleasant result.

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@billmulvihill8452 I love many kinds of music through my Dragon. Sometimes you do have to do a little adjusting to the settings if you are picky about different kinds of music. Take Care.

[@ingrammcdaniel9799]

It’s not on there web site yet… the digital processor or possibly digital bass restorer.. like an epicenter..!

[@neverenoughtech]

dragon.nakamichi-usa.com

[@puciohenzap891]

This has nothing to do with the old Japanese Nakamichi, right?

[@888YouCantHandle]

China parent company with Japanese engineers

[@Mr.HotRod]

Correct. Whole different everything. These investors probably just bought the rights to the name and trademark, patents everything so they could start out brand new. All new personnel. All original owners, workers most everyone connected with the old Naka are now dead (RIP) kind of like me. Take Care 👻

[@888YouCantHandle]

@@Mr.HotRod you have something that shows this?

[@SmittyAZ]

I remember buying a Nakamichi sound bar at K-mart.

[@85corolla]

Did K-mart carry any Dragon models then?

[@SmittyAZ]

@@85corolla I don't remember, this was the earlier days of sound bars. I was pointing out how cheap their stuff was. My audio equipment was JVC, if you remember them.

[@85corolla]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@SmittyAZI think every company has models for cheap people and for hardcore enthusiasts. It's all relative. My audio equipment was Carver, if you even heard of them.

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@SmittyAZ JAPAN OR JAPANESE VICTOR COMPANY. I go back a lot farther then that for audio equipment.

[@SmittyAZ]

@@Mr.HotRod Sansui, for one. I've had so many systems, I can't remember most of them.

[@PaulMurray7]

What do I do with the two 8"? I wonder how the 8" and 12" will work together?

[@cordcuttercam]

I hope we get a review from you 😅😁

[@neverenoughtech]

I also hope to get a review from me

[@Mr.HotRod]

Be sure to review your review before you send out any reviews!!!

[@MrBjorn6]

Do you think 2 more surround speakers could add to the experience?

[@neverenoughtech]

I said having 4 surrounds would be “cooking with fire” in the video

[@MrBjorn6]

@@neverenoughtech I just got told not with this current dragon, but with the next version that would be possible 🤔

[@neverenoughtech]

From who?

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@neverenoughtech From true movie theatre buffs.

[@RossSeverson]

@@MrBjorn6OH COME ON

[@bobsimmons1470]

Would you recommend this for a 3rd floor studio?

[@neverenoughtech]

Absolutely, why would you not buy a system you can share with the whole complex …?

[@Drn10n]

the price ain't right. for this much money you can put speakers wires in your walls and build a decent dolby atmos traditional setup. and if you can spend that much money on a soundbar system, you probably don't rent.

[@thetinyflames]

Is this the right sub for a third floor studio apartment? Has to be!

[@thetinyflames]

I'm late to the party.

[@neverenoughtech]

The $8500 should get you there

[@MilGrip76]

Yeah, those sound clips are only like 375% THD.

[@D65Cinder11HDR]

This is great news. I hope they allow for multiple satellite speakers. To be used. For the front left and right.

[@neverenoughtech]

Yes, I really didn’t think there was any hope for that a few weeks ago. Buying two extra surrounds I’m sure wouldn’t be cheap but would transform the sound in a manner that may be more impressive

[@pauli2753]

What were those measurements with the samsung and nakamichi supposed to prove? Neither of them appeared to produce any of the signals all that cleanly; the distortion on both was so bad that you could hardly make out the actual signal; but the distortion seemed a bit worse on the nakamichi.

[@neverenoughtech]

What to expect from a pure 20Hz signal on the original subs. Are you allergic to fun. Diagnosis: Yes

[@pauli2753]

@@neverenoughtechThe section in the video does not make this at all clear, especially when you make fun of the people "poking" at the specs which makes it seem that you disagree with them; even though they are 100% correct.

[@neverenoughtech]

It seems the measurement and playing of the sound helped to cement your preconceived notion. And I never said whether I agreed or disagreed with commenters. I just get so many AR in comments I playfully throw it back in videos. And, I typically agree with Andrew - in my proper review I might even address his comments. I’ve been playfully putting clips of that guy in my videos for like 3 years

[@pauli2753]

​@@neverenoughtech What preconceived notion? That the clips of the subs playing distorted signals seems like a rebuttal? I have no problem of you making fun AR nor having humor in your videos. But for the uneducated consumer, playing clips with no context that make the nakamichi play the low frequency signals and sound louder than the samsung when it is mainly distortion that you are hearing is misleading.

[@pauli2753]

@@neverenoughtech The point was: I would've left the clips out. They add nothing to the video (no comedic nor informational value) and can only mislead when no context is given.

[@S1mmz]

What do you think about AR output results though. He's saying that once you get to a particular volume the soundbar itself can't play below 300hz. I hardly doubt he's lying as has the proper equipment to test this, not a phone app like many. If the claim is true at 300Hz then the subs take over from there, then most subs aren’t designed to be crossed that high and it's no wonder he and others say it's a muddy mess. Also the new subs state they are only 19-200hz, so again when you hit that particular volume what happens between 200-300hz. Seems basically like original owners got scammed and this is just more marketing crap. Further you dig the ones with reliable equipment also state exactly the same and it makes sense why Nakamichi didn't want to send review units to further people with these tools who would likely perform these types of tests.

[@888YouCantHandle]

Man is angry from the start,does NOT own one and can't be taken serious.

[@neverenoughtech]

I think the severe roll off is probably closer to 160 per Caleb and you can kind of see that in Andrews chart … but they didn’t design the Dragon to be standalone (they use midrange woofers) and AR never did such measurements on the Samsung Q990D. Comparing bass performance on a bar not mean to be standalone to much smaller bars that are meant to be stand alone and saying the dragon os inferioris not in good faith. I suspect the the new sub and dragon will make it work such that there is not a gapping drop in volume or presence in the 160 to 300 range. That being said it seems putting a bit more overlap between bar and sub frequencies would sooth nerves (I kind of get that)

[@S1mmz]

@@neverenoughtech Hopefully, but then a sub that size you would ideally want to set the crossover around about 80hz anyway, I wouldn't want a unit like that set at 200. Also, unless they are suddenly adding polarity, zero time delay, phase shift etc then I dread to think how people are going to set 2 of these up, let alone 4 without any issues as it's no easy task without any inbuilt tools like you would get on an average receiver.

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@888YouCantHandle BINGO!!! Someone who knows, sees and hears what he is talking about. 👍

[@billmulvihill8452]

@@888YouCantHandle He had it and tested it thoroughly for 30 days. More than enough time to gather a fully informed opinion.

[@bloodcarver913]

8500 for 4 12" subs? Don't smoke and drive...

[@neverenoughtech]

Well yeah plus the soundbar and surrounds and … free app … and big boxes for fort building

[@Mr.HotRod]

With the main Soundbar and rears.

[@williamriker4889]

Nope. Makes me wonder what's next? 15s or 18s next year. I got the unit as it was sold. I'm not now or ever giving nak any more money. I'll buy elsewhere in the future if need be. Hoping what I have lasts. Time will tell of course. 1 things for sure. I'm not happy!

[@ocsteve3]

If you decouple these subs, you may just avoid and tarring, feathering and any rails.

[@mhaweshtatour2439]

Can I feel the 12" bass from dragon like a 12" sub in car?

[@888YouCantHandle]

Likely more so.

[@feldartillerie1620]

It's time for Samsung to move up a level and offer 4 surround speakers and / or 2 subs... a modular system depending on your wallet and use. The dragon soundbar is simply overpriced... no matter what was installed and for many people there is an additional €500 on top for shipping... ridiculous

[@neverenoughtech]

I’m curious if 6 wireless components can stay stable. Samsung struggled with this with the music frame

[@californiaballer]

@@neverenoughtechI think the limitation is simply based on the chipset that Samsung uses at the moment. Because any off the shelf Wifi router would be able to handle these many separate connections with ease.

[@neverenoughtech]

I agree, the question is whether nakamichis chip set is up to the task. Was 6 wireless components along with the main unit the engineering aim or is it something they think they can stretch and make worth. Open question due to a history of this industry not performing stellar in this area

[@californiaballer]

@@neverenoughtech Well I hope they tested this internally before making the product announcement.

[@Sky-8646]

Someone need to make a video of the new sub..

[@neverenoughtech]

Someone should

[@Sky-8646]

@@neverenoughtech are you the one?😂

[@stacywoode1]

You have the pricing wrong for the original 8" subs vs 12". You are saying 4k for the original vs $5,600 for the 12" subs. There was mention for one 8" is would cost 1200 however it's for two 8" for 1200.

[@neverenoughtech]

Pinned comment

[@lunatrics]

Removing comments eh. :)

[@neverenoughtech]

No, what comment was removed?

[@Keithking4337]

Well obviously 20hz wasn’t even close and now a company that straight up lied wants $5600 with 2 12”s or $8600 with 4?? Why not make the claim true and fix the lies? I don’t root for a company to fail, but this has been nothing short of a clusterfk since day one. I’ll listen to Andrew n Cristy who actually did measurements to prove the inaccuracy and deception by Nakamichi. I’m betting that many dragon owners are super frustrated when they saw these new subs. Scam

[@Mr.HotRod]

I hate to say this but Andrew and his sweetie pie were pissed from the very beginning (middle of last year) because Naka would NOT send them a free whole Dragon system for them to play with. Many companies send them free stuff for their supposedly unbiased opinion but NAka doe not do that for any reviewer except for a few beta testers right before their initial release date.

[@brosmile9388]

​@Mr.HotRod I didn't know the specifics but i could tell they were full of hatred for a great product. The hatred was so over the top it raised my eyebrow. I have a knack for noticing hate with hidden motives.

[@Keithking4337]

@@Mr.HotRod 😂

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@brosmile9388 I believe you are very correct. 👍

[@californiaballer]

@@Mr.HotRodAnd now we know why they refused to send samples to the reviewers. Convenient, isn’t it 😊

[@rafars2246]

Man the jokes you make are effing funny lol

[@neverenoughtech]

Forwarding to my wife and mom

[@mitchellmchone4651]

I've have a dragon I want the 12 4 for me

[@coolarrow30]

$8,999.99 Holy shit balls..... I'm gonna go and find a nice quiet place and have a heart attack.

[@grambo1980]

My poor neighbors. I’m the worst condo neighbor ever. The dragon is going to make my whole wireless unusable lol

[@ZachAJ77]

Lol me too. Sorry not sorry

[@kenshinesca]

I don't really believe them they said the ones it came with played down to 20hz yet they didn't, well didn't play clean at 20hz.

[@neverenoughtech]

No it quite obviously didn’t

[@pervertedalchemist9944]

Four subowoofers at 5000 watts and almost $10,000?! The HOA will be at yoùr doorstep in 3...2...1...LOL!

[@neverenoughtech]

The HOA wouldn’t make it within 50 feet of my house when it’s rumbling

[@Mr.HotRod]

Not quite that price but any lose ceiling tiles would make your room very dusty.

[@AbsoluteFidelity]

Many people just dont know what they could actually get with 8500 bucks. You like AMTs? Plenty of AMT speakers out there that dont cost half as much. Dont like drilling and sawing off your ceilings and walls? Plenty of upward firing modules to add on that will work better than the Dragon. No room correction at 8500 bucks? Youll get it with regular AVRs. No front left right separation? Regular speakers would solve that. At this point, potential customers of this 8500 bucks Dragon Ultra Pro Plus might as well opt for separates as they are dont take much more space than the Dragon. The separates would make the Dragon sound like a kitchen lizard. Samsung now needs to go back to Home Theather In A Box and give us separate speakers and the option for 2 or 4 subs. I would gladly get that for 3000 dollars. Samsung has all the expertise to create an objectively great system, as seen by the measurements of Q990 series.

[@neverenoughtech]

My take is 8500 is not real but it may make 5600 seem more reasonable especially if you have too much money and have no interest in traditional HT cluttering up your space.

[@AbsoluteFidelity]

@@neverenoughtech 5600 can still net you a superior system and I dont really see how smaller separates would clutter up space more than the dragon. The only thing I can think of is laziness, people that want a plug and play system with no hassle. Thats the price of laziness.

[@neverenoughtech]

Towers and wires and receivers/amps adds up in terms of complexity and space- of course laziness is part of it - not like convenience isn’t something we don’t all pay for in various facets of our comments - have you ever had food delivered or bought a thing from a convenience store - what I’m trying to say is dudes with enough money to spend thousands on sound have ladies and ladies with with dudes who have thousands to spend on home theater don’t like ugly speakers in their fancy living room so they compromise on soundbars.

[@fatredditmod]

Can the solution you are proposing get rid of wires though?

[@AbsoluteFidelity]

@@fatredditmod Not really. So lets call them for what they are, wireless hassle free inferior sounding solution. They certainly do not get close to separates in terms of SQ.

[@billmulvihill8452]

NE I want to know from you what part, if any, of Andrew’s review is inaccurate. Based on his review, music on its own is bad,as well. Must be a lot of Dragon owners out there, trying to justify the $4000 they spent on a system, that apparently can’t deliver soundbar bass and is missing part of the claimed frequency response!

[@neverenoughtech]

Well I might have a detailed response in one way or another

[@billmulvihill8452]

@@neverenoughtech I’ll be looking forward to it. You’re both good reviewers!

[@neverenoughtech]

Reaction: Andrew Robinson's Dragon Review kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZebqXiXqZt6mJI

[@alcozar5905]

👀 Nope.

[@ulittlefricker]

Thx 🙏 please provide 🌶️ commentary on AR's review and unplugged videos in your upcoming review ❤

[@neverenoughtech]

Well I heard him say something like the dragon is less immersive than the Bose system (I actually don’t like watching other reviews so I can stay independent) - I guarantee that claim does not hold up in my basement listening space - or any other space I suspect.

[@fatredditmod]

@@neverenoughtech They even went on to say $700 Polk system is better. They are blinded by their obvious resentment.

[@ulittlefricker]

@@neverenoughtech ⁠he said every other system has better dispersion/spaciousness, including the Bose 600, than the dragon. Said the dragon beams sound at you in contrast. AR highlights: (stop now to stay independent!) They didn't like the center channel quality or its levels. Turning up the volume to get better vocals would get your ears blown out by other sounds momentarily later. Also said the sub crossover is 300hz so voices can be heard from the sub. Sub plays well down to 40hz, not 20hz, which he argued was false advertisement. Also despised .4 naming instead of .2, possibly corrected with this new 12" marketing, not sure. Dragon good if you want it super loud but it lacks nuance and is brash. Thanks for the reply and keep wasting $ on systems for our pleasure 😁

[@Shift4g]

​@@fatredditmodAnd everyone else blinded by their fandom?

[@Mr.HotRod]

@@fatredditmod 👍

[@algorithmbluepill]

👍

[@neverenoughtech]

👍 👊

[@jeffc4399]

I don’t care about the subs. I just want front/up firing satellites.

[@LoafRock]

🍻

[@neverenoughtech]

🍻

[@user-hf8ie8mf3n]

A system for that guy from Ruthless People in the Ferrari jacket. 😂. Announce your presence with authority! 👍🤪🏳️‍🌈

[@dicmccoy]

4 subs with zero Polarity settings, zero phase shift, zero time delay, and zero PEQ. What a fail. They are going to cancel each other out giving you 0 bass. 🤣🤣🤣 Steer clear of this crap. Getting 2 subs right with all those tools is hard enough, and they give you zero of the tools.

[@888YouCantHandle]

Wrong

[@dicmccoy]

@@888YouCantHandle prove it. Where's all the stuff built into the dragon soundbar and app? There isn't. Show me polarity settings for individual subs. Show me phase shift for individual subs. Show me time delay for individual subs. Without those 3 tools, adding more subs is just utterly useless. All you're going to have is cancellations. Maybe learn audio first before opening your mouth. Replaying with wrong with no explanation is something trolls do.

[@888YouCantHandle]

@@dicmccoy you prove the claims

[@dicmccoy]

@@888YouCantHandle you prove it first troll.

[@888YouCantHandle]

@@dicmccoy trolling is hanging in comment sections of products you know nothing about.

[@earthzero7]

Why...?

[@neverenoughtech]

42

[@WhiteshadowTV]

I knew hipster glasses was butthurt when he kept recommending the Q990D over the dragon. The 990 series has always been lackluster to me, I've never liked the sound.

[@neverenoughtech]

The dragon is far more expressive than the D. You can recommend it on goods/$ grounds but not on overall sound - that’s a stretch

[@VictorAvilax]

Samsung pays “influencers” to speak well of it

[@Birmingham_racing]

After watching Andrew Robinson view I don't trust the brands word

[@fatredditmod]

you shouldn't be trusting Andrew Robinson in the first place

[@Birmingham_racing]

@@fatredditmod he has been more honest then most

[@CloudSurfer13]

​@@Birmingham_racing His Samsung review is nothing but overflowing positivity and his Dragon review is nothing but overflowing negativity. The contrast between the two is suspect to me, even as a Dragon owner who was underwhelmed with the lack of rumble in the subs (but impressed with the unit as a whole).

[@Gerrit-g5c]

And what about the cross over frequency between those 12" subs and the main soundbar. According to the measurements of Andrew Robinson this crossover is somewhere in the Lower midrange between 250 - 300HZ which by far is too high to get a good solid cohesive transition between subs and bar and totally ignoring good audio and acoustic engineering principles. With bigger 12" drivers the problem will get worse.

[@neverenoughtech]

I’ll apply my 2 cents to this in my next review

[@lbj2146]

According to the 12" sub manual, a new firmware update will include cross-over settings with the new 12" subs. Not sure if this will also apply to the original 8" subs. "• The ‘Subwoofer Crossover’ adjusts the highest bass frequencies that the subwoofer(s) will play. (Options: 120 - 200Hz, in 10Hz increments)" p. 22

[@MattyDaddy14]

Btw. Not saying they are or Naka has any “deal” with them… but $1499 12” Dragon sub is almost identical to the $3400 REL S/812!! Only difference is the options on the amp, and 5lbs!! Lol. 🎉 the driver is the same, the passive woofer is identical, the shape and size is the same, even the little gold plaque (vs REL silver) is the same. The feet are the same etc! The s/812 is rated to 19hz, same as the dragon 12”, etc! IMO that’s kinda cool that you’re basically getting a nakamichi branded REL S/812 (minus the side handles) for $1900 less? Haha 🎉

[@neverenoughtech]

Appreciate the reference

[@Gerrit-g5c]

@@MattyDaddy14 Well REL has a long standing good reputation on building subwoofers. The only difference is the input board which for the Nakamichi is designed for their Dragon Eco system. Rel has to maintain a world wide dealer, support & distribution network, that comes with a price probably. Myself I have a traditional Home cinema / audio system with Dolby Atmos. In the system I have 2 Rel subs which I have for almost 2 decades in use. Their task is to deliver in music playback the lowest octave between 20 - 40 Hz under my full range B&W 804 front speakers (using high level input). When playing home cinema they also do the LFE channel (using low level input)and it's amazing what they bring to overall experience as well on music playback and movies. So I expect the new Dragon subwoofer wil bring a solid upgrade on the low end and deliver 20Hz at -6 db as Rel more accurately specifies.. Doesn't take away my doubt about the aggressive marketing and solidity of the current Nakamichi company. And that's totally different with the old Japanese Nakamichi which in its time was a serious company delivering very high quality products supported by a solid dealer network.

[@QAT4969]

8.5k? get the denon a1h/x8500 with med-grade polk audio/jamo/wharfedale/dali speakers would be the more logical approach

[@m4nc1n1]

LOL! $1500 ea and only works with their soundbar. They really hurt their rep with this soundbar from day one and just made it worse. Another legend falls.

[@Njjhgggggddfhjuu]

😳🤣👎👎👎

[@tonemack2981]

Wow, really?! I have no excitement towards this thing, not the least bit of interest. It seems to me that they are catering to bass heads. You shouldn't have lied in the first place about their product. The system is centered around bass and harshness.

[@neverenoughtech]

Centered around harshness? No I don’t believe that - sure you can make it harsh if you want as with all systems. And you have all levels of flexibility on how much bass you want and how much you want to center it. People can make fun of me for all kinds of things but lying … better come with a solid case.

[@Mr.HotRod]

You unkind sir are way off base. No interest because you cannot afford one.? That's fine I started out a long time ago with only one grand of funds. Try to find a dealer to listen to the Dragon System (very hard to find but are out there). I bet you would be very impressed with it. Take Care.

[@rafars2246]

Nakamichi asking 1.5k for a 12" subwoofer lol