New Protocols for Flying Near Aerodromes: Latest Transport Canada AIM Updates!

[@klassical16]

Thanks for sharing Don. In my experience flying throughout Canada, I'd say 75% of small aerodromes or heliports have no idea why I am calling to coordinate my flight, especially hospital heliports. I sometimes get the occasional comments that I am not allowed to fly in the vicinity at all. It gets quite frustrating doing the right procedures, and working with uninformed staff about these protocols.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks for sharing, Maxime! Yes, and part of the problem is that true 'operator' at these heliports is NOT the contact listed in the CFS.

[@FlyturboKwad]

I like the explanation between "Should" vs "Shall", Thanks Don!

[@DonJoyce]

Glad it was helpful!

[@darrenmiller5893]

Thanks Don! Drone operators need only imagine they are onboard their drones. Nobody wants to be wiped out by a larger vehicle! To say nothing about how a collision with a drone could cost the lives of everyone in said larger vehicle. Great work as always.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Darren! Yes, that is a good perspective. For me, it's an expensive enough piece of kit that I don't want to lose it, so I TRY not to do dumb things...although I've done a few. But never endangering people.

[@the1andonly]

Yes, this video is probably the best guideline in existence. It seems that the authorities see the need for regulating the use of drones near aerodromes, but aren't sure about how this can be done in reasonable and effective manner. I think the greatest danger aren't pilots who have the proper certification and registered drones. But there are people out there with inexpensive drones from Amazon that have no clue they even need to get licensed and registered. Sadly I have to admit that this was me, just over two years ago. Even today you can see all kinds of drones offered to the general public, including those over 250 grams, with no mention of how they're regulated. I had my Holy Stone fly away on me on the third flight (at -15º), and it was due to that incident that I learned about those requirements. Luckily no one got harmed. I even got the drone back after a window washer found it on a roof six months later. It's embarrassing to admit to this, but so important to share, because I'm sure people make this mistake often and it leads to all this conflicting regulation that really aims at the wrong pilots.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure this same kind of thing is happening all the time. One of the goals of the Drone Pilot Association of Canada is to help fill the awareness gap.

[@susanscovill6817]

This is a great update Don. Thanks. 1-IMHO As a rule of thumb you should always test with the equipment you are going to use. 2-You can purchase an air band radio for a few hundred. In relation to the cost of some drones that’s not expensive. I’m sure many drone pilots would enjoy listening to ground and tower freq’s. I’ve had my license since ‘97 because I use it at YVR. I’ll see if I can find you a more current aerial. We’ve made a lot of changes since yours was taken. Like anything new tweaks need to be made and when you’re talking about the gov it seems to take longer. It will improve and evolve. People like you and other drone operators will bring about positive changes to better RPAS and the DMP. You get people excited and bring positive attention to the program. We owe you a debt of gratitude. Cheers from Vancouver eh!

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you so much for the kind words and additional information, Susan!

[@rw5088]

There really isn't better source for drone information in Canada. I really appreciate the content and the style of presentation. Thanks for the great work Don

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, R W!! Glad you enjoy my videos and find them helpful!

[@interlakedroneservices8372]

Don, great job of keeping everyone informed of TC's latest changes in the AIM.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks Steve! BTW, Drone Pilot Canada was updated yesterday to match these new guidelines.

[@timothypryor6154]

Another great video Don! Thank you for getting the information out there for all of us drone pilots in Canada. I joined the DPAC last week and I hope that this committee can help sway the regulatory updates in some way to keep the hobby accessible to the people. I have been dealing with Transport Canada on the marine side for years and I know full well how they get. I imagine the aviation side is no different. I am currently trying to sort through the regulations for home built drones to be able to fly in restricted airspace. I have been getting into FPV lately and live near a large airport. If you have any insight that you could offer on the process it would be greatly appreciated.

[@DonJoyce]

In order to fly a home-made drone in controlled airspace, you'll need to submit a Safety Assurance Declaration. I suggest you read all the references in section 3.4.3 of the AIM RPA chapter.

[@timothypryor6154]

@@DonJoyce Thanks Don! I’ll check it out.

[@patientx77]

Hi Don, great info as usual! The unfortunate side effect of these confusing and constantly changing regulations is that there will be more and more drones flying without the pilot understanding the requirements for a safe flight, thereby actually making the skies less safe. Or, even worse, will deter people from getting their licence and just flying illegally because it's too much hassle. While there are definite changes for the better, it seems like a 1-step forward, 2-steps back scenario. Where I live, we have class G airspace up to 3500ft, but there is a hospital with a certified heliport near my house, so under the old rules, I was required (with my advanced licence of course) to contact them before flying within 1nm. New rules would seem to indicate that I "should" contact them but don't have to. Will there be an update to Drone Pilot Canada for this and the other scenarios you mentioned? Thanks again for the great content!

[@DonJoyce]

Yes, totally agree...people get frustrated with churn for something that SHOULD be simple! And yes, Drone Pilot Canada messaging was updated yesterday (May 22) to mat h the new guidelines.

[@derekcox6531]

Thanks Don! I’ll be reading the document today instead of flying. (Too windy here in southern Alberta) thanks for the link. As always,you make finding the information easy for the lazy people like myself.👍👍👍

[@DonJoyce]

LOL...thanks, Derek!

[@nurbs2322]

The new sub-250 guidelines are a godsend as I built my current 5" FPV drone to sit just under the line with a 450mah battery. Now I can register it, and put larger batteries on it, without giving up the advantages of staying under sub-250. It's trivial for me to change parts as I build, so having to constantly register, and re-register drones as weights changed was a gigantic pain.

[@DonJoyce]

Great news!

[@stuartmunro7926]

I believe what made them add the part about getting away from other aircraft was incidents with RPAS units near water bombers and suppression helicopters... The incident at Billy Bishop involving RPAS unit hitting a plane probably contributed as well.

[@DonJoyce]

Well maybe, but there are already very clear rules about staying 9km (5NM) away from any part of a wildfire. We're still waiting for the Buttonwood drone collision TSB report....it is now many weeks overdue vs their 450 day target day.

[@BobHerres]

Excellent content. Don continues to be the most trusted source of information. Additionally Don always conveys critical facts in a clear manner that's easily to absorb. This clearly proves the tremendous value of joining "The Drone Pilot of Canada Association."

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you for the kind words and continued support, Bob!

[@paul-emilegallant9502]

Hi Don, I'm an amateur photographer and videographer who recently picked up a Mini 3 Pro to fulfill a long lived dream. I mostly use the drone as a flying tripod! I've joined the "The Drone Pilot of Canada Association" about a month ago and really enjoy and admire you work. We really need someone with your leadership in this field. I feel lucky to come into this wonderful hobby at this exciting time. I am not yet a certified pilot, but will get my basic sometimes in the near future. Keep up the good work and feel free to contact me on this topic.

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you so much for your kind words and support, Paul-Emile!

[@jimsdroneing]

great info Don as always

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Jim!

[@davestredulinsky]

Thank you Don for your investigations to get clarifications of changes and sharing with us.

[@DonJoyce]

You are welcome, Dave! Thanks for watching!

[@Newfounddroneproductions]

wow don , i really enjoy your videos ,, keep it up , cheers

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Bill!!

[@Aerosnapper]

Another excellent summary on a really important topic. My own experience of aerodrome contacts is that the Nav Canada staff on the ground are very helpful and knowledgeable about drones; many of them own and fly one. Airport operators are a different matter. If they know anything at all about drones, it's that they don't like them and don't want them anywhere nearby. A position substantially influenced by a lack of information and knowledge. Perhaps they should be watching your videos. Does anyone else find it disturbing that 'Joe Drone Pilot' is being steadily pushed towards expenses like CFS subscriptions and Airband Radio ownership, with associated certification commitment ? It won't make the average recreational flyer any safer..!

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Mike! Good to hear that you have established good contacts with Nav Canada staff. It is unclear if TC is making any effort to inform/educate airport operators of drone regulations, practical procedures, etc.

[@gbower1]

Great info and thanks for keeping us all informed.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Gerry! Glad to be of assistance!

[@rreiter]

Don, thanks for the all the work and research you are doing on this.

[@DonJoyce]

You are very welcome!

[@bmillersk]

I could not agree with you more about it still being unclear. I contacted CYQR to notify them of drone activity near the city and to ensure I had the correct number to contact in case of inadvertent entry into the controlled airspace. They were confused on why I was calling and in fact, were of little assistance (creating more questions). This is the portion of flying that creates much anxiety for myself due to the ever changing wording and uncertainty. Airports and aviation enthusiasts need to be taking this as serious as us drone pilots to ensure the safety of everyone. How is the average person supposed to comply if it’s too complicated and unclear. Most people will just do and hope nothing bad happens, which is not what we should be promoting!

[@DonJoyce]

1000% agree, Brendan. Very confusing...leading to people just throwing their hands up.

[@AndyFyon]

Most (all?) of my flying has been in remote areas where there is no cell or internet. If the "should contact" evolves into "shall contact", there will be issues for those of us who spontaneously fly in remote areas. Yes, I can preplan and could contact the aerodrome several days or weeks in advance of my presence, but I generally do not know what specific area I will fly over until I have "surveyed" an area. Just a cautionary note about a well intentioned guideline whose application may struggle in remote areas.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks for sharing, Andy! This is exactly the kind of practical feedback TC needs to be aware of.

[@propellerhead5890]

This is some very good info and analysis. Sometimes smaller certified aerodromes list procedures in the CFS that clearly keep 'traditional aircraft' away from certain areas within the 3NM range (ie: over built-up areas) where small RPAS ops may be happening at or under 400ft AGL. The changes you outlined seem to make things a bit easier to manage and may prevent operators of smaller certified aerodromes in uncontrolled airspace from being spammed with requests/notifications that would likely not impact them at all.

[@DonJoyce]

Yes, the new procedures are fairly good, although requiring good judgement and common sense.

[@PhantomHodgesDrone]

if you look at a aerodrone map for say, St Thomas , the airport zone covers about a third of st thomas and if you get into bow ties of the runway, it covers most of the city, i believe the regulations state that a aircraft cannot fly less that 1000 feet over a built up area or town and city, yet, i am allowed 400 feet, but yet i usually dont fly that high anyways, actually where i am sitting is in the bowtie and i have to go thru the DJI app in order to just take off here, kind of a pain though, but i don,t think i should have to inform the airport of every flight due to being in the city, but i understand that in the close proximity of the airport or runway or downwind leg and final for runway , we should be cautious and inform airport manager of flight and I am also being sure to listen for approaching aircraft

[@DonJoyce]

Sounds sensible, but certainly if you are very low (eg 50 feet above buildings), there is such a low risk of encountering a manned aircraft, you would just be a PITA to the airport if you were calling every time.

[@johnrumballphotography]

Thanks Don, for clarifying these. Interesting points about listening on air band radios while operating. I recently bought an air band radio to help my situational awareness after a close call with a float plane who came out of no where during taking off. I had been listening only to the streamed feed from CYSB tower but that didn’t help in this case. Always enjoy your videos… thanks for your contribution to the community.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks John! Sounds like a scary encounter! Perhaps you could share your thoughts / cost on the unit you purchased. Previous commenter just asked!

[@johndolson8342]

I too fly my drone in an area near CYSB with float planes on the same lake. Float planes don't just "come out of no where". They are however, almost impossible to hear when approaching on final. You often won't even be aware of them until you see them having flown overhead. They're arriving at idle from downwind. Good pilots will announce what they're doing on the local frequency. But not all do. Even if they did announce everything...they're not using the CYSB ATC Frequency. CYSB tower uses 125.5. Most float plane traffic is using 122.8 as monitored by Whitewater waterdrome in Azilda.

[@johnrumballphotography]

@@johndolson8342 Yeah thats what I meant... I didn't hear anything until I saw it overhead. I was in the south end on Armstrong at the time so Im guessing it came up off of Nephawin (or Ramsey). Now that I have my radio, I have all those frequencies scanning so I can hear it all when they're' relatively close to me.

[@jeanlamoureux7138]

Hi Don, last week I was at the casino in hull to film a weeding from my drone, I contacted the casino heliport authorities for approval even though it’s in unrestricted airspace. However listening to 2 way communication while flying the drone can be disturbing, I have an application called live ATC on my iPhone I can you to listen to aircraft chatter, but a lot of times it’s hard to understand what they are saying especially if they have an accent. Thanks for the video, very helpful,

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Jean. Yes, I would certainly find the radio chatter a distraction when flying...but that's just me.

[@ORGANIZEDCoNfUsioN]

Thanks Don for going through more interesting and confusing information. But of course if the government is involved it's going to get confusing. Like # 187!!!

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Dave. There is more information coming in...and it's no more clear. A meeting is being set up.

[@AsgardStudios]

Great review, Don. Thanks for keeping us up to date!

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Hugh!!

[@exmortis4404]

Fantastic video and a great summary of the changes. Sometimes it really seem the rules are being made and changed with out consultation with even the "traditional" aircraft stakeholders let alone drone pilots. Something the DPAoC hopefully can change.

[@DonJoyce]

I agree. A short consultation session could save a lot of churn!

[@johndolson8342]

Float planes present a challenging situation. As a drone pilot, asking us to contact each float plane operator who flies from his dock is not workable. If you go to a lake that you're not familiar with...how the heck do you determine where there are private float planes? How do you determine if there's a plane on the next lake that may also be using your airspace? If you know the lake...then a plane at the dock means you're safe. If the plane isn't at the dock, be aware that they may arrive at any time. Understanding what the float plane pilot will want for landing conditions gives you a good head start for situational awareness. If you're operating on a windward shore, with a good distance of lake available, then that's likely where a float plane will approach, often arriving not far above treetop level. Keep in mind that a float plane on final is approaching from downwind with engine idle. You may not even hear it! Your first awareness may actually be seeing him just as he clears the shore. The pilot may, or may not announce his intentions...so while using an aviation radio MAY give you some info...it's not a guarantee. Maintaining a good situational awareness is our best way to fly safely.

[@DonJoyce]

All very good observations, concerns, and tips. I'm all in favour of mandatory ADS-B out for all manned aircraft and helicopters.

[@PhantomHodgesDrone]

WoW, more changes, glad you are on top of it, wish there was a way for the government to notify us as a drone pilot of changes to regulations, it seems that the only way we have been getting it , is thru you!, thank you, well to let you know what i do here is: If i do a real estate job that is within the close vicinity of the airport here in St Thomas , i have a email address of airport manager and i inform him of my flight, what time and location, height and anything else that is necessary and he will respond back to me that he has recieved my info. , but now i am more confused of flying in a class C airspace, because of that , i have to go thru Nav Canada to get permission to fly within control zone, is the airport been notified?, i thought that was the purpose of getting permission to fly, so now do I have to get nav Canada approval and get a hold of someone at airport Manager or tower to let them know too?, as you know, especially with pre approval of a flight and all of a sudden the weather changes and flight is now cancelled, do we have to inform them of that too? or when you have completed flight, do they need to know too?, Thanks Don and the crew for keeping us informed

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Paul. Yes, you DO need to get both NAV Canada approval AND contact the airport if you are flying near an airport in controlled airspace....IF your flight might interfere with manned aircraft. I suppose it would be at least courteous to file an 'all clear' if you cancel or when you are done. It is precisely this kind of practical recommendations or at least best practices they should be making, rather than vague 'should' statements.

[@pierre3036]

Thanks so much for a very informative and interesting video. Thanks again for your time and a well presented video!

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Pierre!

[@caninphx]

Recently tried coordinating a flight where I live. We were about 4kms from an airport and 1 km from hospital heliport. The airport which see’s flights daily, zero issues as long as I notify them when the activities are being done and stay under I think it was 60ms which is perfect as I we were planning on mapping our stockpiles. The hospital Heliport though, for lack of a better term the flight controller was unreasonable. They want 30-60days notice, ie F off your not flying near my aerodrome I’m all for working within the regs/laws, NAV can actually was giving me approval to fly the provided I coordinated with the aerodromes and stayed at 60ms I think it was. Zero issue coordinating and providing notice, but 30-60days? That’s being unreasonable, pilots which they want to treat us as, file flight plans within hours, sometimes mins before take off, usually zero issues. I just sometimes shake my head, was easier to just survey it with a pogo, then it was to get in a fight with an aerodrome and cause issues for flights further down the road.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks for sharing this story....it's not the first I've heard about heliports. That said, they cannot refuse you access to the airspace, and 30 days notice IS refusing access (unless they have a REALLY good reason...). So I would attempt the coordination, and if they give you the 30-60 day notice thing, you can simply say, I will be flying today at 4pm (or whatever). Here's my number if there's a potential conflict. Put it in writing if possible. Read the section in the AIM where TC clearly states you have the right to be in the air, as long as you are following the rules.

[@DomChrisOwens]

Another issue to point out with the change regarding maintaining "listening" watch of aerodrome air traffic via radio would be the last bit of the section that states the VHF operator "must" possess a ROC-A license. This is extremely contradictory, their suggestion is that an RPA pilot should actively listen and monitor ATC but nowhere does it state they should use said radio for formal communications. A ROC-A license is only required if an operator of a VHF radio intends to transmit on a specific designated frequency, simply using a VHF scanner or a VHF air band radio with transceiver function disabled would satisfy what they have written and it doesn't require a ROC-A at all.

[@DonJoyce]

Well, that's what I thought too, but I wasn't sure about scanners and license requirements, so I didn't go out on a limb and say that. What you said makes 100% sense, and of course scanners are cheaper than transceivers.

[@DomChrisOwens]

@@DonJoyceExactly, when it comes to radio communications industry Canada is very big on being vague (sort of like NAV Canada in that way). The only time a license or operator certificate is needed is when a person intends to use a mobile radio or base radio station for transmission over an assigned frequency. This is because there are regulations regarding transmit power, identification, etc that come in to play (hence why most pilots are required to have aviation radio licensing as part of their pilots licensing program). A person using a scanner or a radio with the transmit function disabled doesn't need a license because they are only listening, which in theory is no different then turning on the radio in your car to listen to tunes while you commute to work. Just like the RPA laws in the USA, what a radio is used for here in Canada is what determines if a license is required.

[@allenmuirhead]

Thanks Don for the review of this. I should know this but need clarification - what are the specs for an aviation radio?

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Allen. The real question is, why WOULD you know the specs for aviation radio! I talk about the airband frequencies in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYK6kGuFlKdjpck

[@MrNewcook]

Thanks

[@DonJoyce]

You are welcome!

[@drone-rg]

Hi fly often in controlled airspace and I’m surprised that the previous rule was not followed by NAV (the coordination with surrounding aerodromes). Is it optional for NAV not to follow this rules by TC? (Really surprised here!) TC should just enforce this very coordination thing with NAV. I mean, when I submit my request, they already have all the info about the mission, just send it to surrounding aerodromes, we are in a digital world, information is there just use it! It’s 2022! ;-)

[@DonJoyce]

Yes, what you're saying makes complete sense: why DON'T they simply share the drone flight information? BTW, at the risk of defending Nav Canada, the activity they were not doing was not a regulation, but rather a procedure encouraged through the AIM. Still, it is odd that such a procedure would be prepared and published with everyone buying in.

[@zdravkogalinec2044]

Well my experience is that they don’t answer the phone, even busy Registered Aerodrones seldom have someone to answer or mechanism to leave a message.

[@DonJoyce]

That's scary!

[@clauderegnier2568]

Thank you for the clarification & updates. Any thoughts on the proposed medical requirements?

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Claude! I just saw those yesterday, and was glad to see that they applied only to the more complex BVLOS operations 'above and beyond' the Advanced Operations. And frankly, I think someone flying a huge cargo drone SHOULD be medically fit to fly...so I'm all for that.

[@octal7]

For page 17, is there clear wording to identify that this only applies to 250g-25kg or that it also applies to

[@DonJoyce]

These guidelines do apply only to drones over 250g...like all the rules except 900.06.

[@jeanlamoureux7138]

Hi Don another comment, if we are logging our mission into nav drone like I do wether in controlled or uncontrolled airspace, does nav canada review the documentation even though you might be in controlled airspace and advise the appropriate aérodrome or heliport? What is the purpose of logging our mission into nav drone other than getting permission ?

[@DonJoyce]

As far as I understand, there is no human monitoring of NAV Drone flight plans, and as stated in this video, NAV Canada does not advise any aerodromes of your activity. Getting controlled airspace permission is the only purpose of using their app, as far as I know.

[@EliProductions]

how much does it cost for us to buy an aviation radio to comply?

[@DonJoyce]

Hi Eli. I honestly don't know. Scanners are cheaper than full 2-way radios, that's for sure.

[@davidstewart9211]

Don, lets say that I get my ROC(A) and an aeronautical radio. Who is going to assign me a call sign or do I just use the last 4 digits for my drone registration number? I could always use my HAM call sign, that would wake everyone up, and that call sign is unique. I already have 3 radios that are capable of monitoring the Aeronautical bands.

[@DonJoyce]

That is a good question, David! In my Radio Theory Part 3 video, I make a reasonable proposal. Here's a link to where I describe it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGq0iXmvapqqe8U

[@sliggy6834]

Hey Don what budget VHF radio would you recommend for drone pilots like ourselves here in Canada?

[@DonJoyce]

Honestly, I don't have a recommendation. I don't have one, and would find it a massive distraction for the kinds of areas I fly in. You may want to consider a scanner instead of a transceiver. You may want to ask this in my FB group.

[@PhantomHodgesDrone]

I have a question, so at a controlled airport, such as a class c airport with control tower, who is manning the tower?, my understanding it is run by NAV Canada or Transport Canada or is the tower run locally?

[@DonJoyce]

Hi Paul! I'm not actually sure...it may depend upon the airport. I don't think Transport Canada is manning the tower though.

[@borutskie]

NAV Canada manages the towers in Canada.

[@PhantomHodgesDrone]

@@borutskie so if NAV Canada manages the towers. And we go thru NAV Canada to get permission to fly in a control zone, so does that mean they know about the flight or not, seems like with the recent changes it suggest calling airport manager or tower and inform them of flight, just seems a little confusing , if you already got permission they NAV Canada they should already know?

[@timelesstruths]

Looks like an aviation radio and training is in the wings.

[@DonJoyce]

Perhaps....I, for one, am not running out to buy something that could be more distracting than helpful during a flight!

[@PhantomHodgesDrone]

The last time I checked, I still have eye sight and hearing, so when I am flying I am always looking and listening for other aircraft, so why the need for a radio, o am not mingling with other aircraft

[@lucashunter3948]

HI Don, I am prepping for my Flight Review and it's still unclear to me whether I need to call ATC in addition to receiving digital permission from NAV Canada before flying within class C/D/E airspace. Must I call ATC every single time?

[@DonJoyce]

Hi Lucas. NAV Canada does not want you calling ATC if you already have a NAV Drone approval. ATC will have access to your flight information. You DO need to contact other airports that you are flying near (eg, a hospital heliport) to ensure they are aware of your operation.

[@lucashunter3948]

@@DonJoyce Thanks, this is incredibly helpful!

[@Learn2Canoedotca]

If I were involved in the manned aviation industry I would be concerned about all the oxygen that Transport Canada is expending on RPA's that largely stay below 400' agl.

[@DonJoyce]

Hmmm...CO2 levels are certainly rising...

[@Fiddler455]

If it is not a large drone with a payload, a DJI Argas as an example, it should all be taken right out of the AIM. There are existing laws in the criminal code that would cover any potential incident, from mischief all the way to criminal negligence causing death. Pertaining to most drone pilots the only line in the AIM document should be "Don't be a jackass"

[@DonJoyce]

That really does sum it up nicely. Unfortunately, it sometimes helps to put some parameters around 'jackass'.