New Simonis 860/an incredible difference

An assessment of my newly installed Simonis 860HR cloth.

[@ladonwiley7192]

Happy Thanksgiving Ron, enjoy your table looks awesome

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too LaDon and thank you 👍🏻

[@gman5051]

Cloth looks awesome ! Hey Ron what prompted you to recloth ? My cloth is definitely showing wear , with the burn along the rails and all of the pesky burn spots created throughout the playing field , so I guess I’m close or I’m there already , so I appreciate your input . Thanks man

[@jarrets2292]

Ron, I have the Simonis 860 on my Olhausen table and like it quite well. Do you know the difference in roll between the 860 and 860 HR?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I’ve only played on 860HR at the billiard hall in leagues and now here so no I don’t. I’ve been told it is basically the same but can’t say this for sure 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@bobstaats8127]

I cant tell a marked roll difference in 860 and 860HR. The HR is supposed to resist nicks more and I can attest to that. Helped two friends put on cloth...one went 860, other HR. The non HR is showing spots and wear much more/sooner...I tried to talk him out of it but he said he wanted it as would be faster...didnt see the difference in speed but sure has in wear.

[@jarrets2292]

@@bobstaats8127 I appreciate your feedback, I must admit my cloth looks quit old for no more playing time than it has. I will keep the HR in mind for next time.

[@JerryHolaway]

That 860 blue cloth looks awesome

[@ronthepoolstudent]

👍🏻 it sure looks cool 👍🏻

[@adamalva2911]

I'm about to put this 860 hr cloth on my olhausen as well. this looks amazing. it this the tournament blue or the royal blue?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Tournament blue Adam. Also, It’s super slick when brand new. It takes many hours of play to break it in so beware 👍🏻

[@iLanageddon]

Table looks good! The rails depth is kind of shallow so that might be why people think they're buckets. My own table has a kind of incline on the rails. I got mine installed before the home's air conditioning got set up and one really humid day caused it to wrinkle around the pockets. 😅

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks L. We actually also sprayed a mist of water with a spray bottle over the surface along with leaving the humidifier on all night before. I liked the idea as my old cloth had been installed on a February day when it was super cold and dry. Shortly after when spring arrived, wrinkles everywhere 🤷🏻‍♂️ Thanks!

[@JohnOlson-mb3ey]

By no stretch of the imagination are those pockets buckets, they look to be the same size I have on my Brunswick and are for sure smaller than I see at the local pool halls. Very nice!!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thank you John for weighing in. Since this video, I’ve had the table re-covered once again. Same Simonis 860 but we tightened the gaps where the long & short rails meet. This brought the corners down to 4 9/16” at the points. Loving the the cloth 👍🏻

[@tomburns890]

Nice. What cloth did u have b4 this 860? Funny people have bashed and told me I have buckets on my table too. I have 860 & 4.5” pockets and going to re-felt and this time go back to old school pool hall 760 simonis so it’s fast plus I’m going shim down to 4.25” and again my table is a 9’ table so it’ll play tough(er). Cheers

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thank you Tom. My old/original cloth was Championship. It played OK but seemed to not hold up as well to my insane practice sessions that first year. (2021) Brilliant minds think alike 😊 Next time, I too will be installing 760 as I love super fast cloth. Also, I will be downsizing my sides and corner pockets so I no longer will need to use removable pocket reducers. As for size, I’m thinking 4 3/8” corners and 4 1/2” sides. I don’t want to get too carried away or pocket cheat with be lessened. I’ve been watching closely on my videos of how the balls go into my current pockets. I’m seeing them hit center more often since I’ve found automating aiming. Lastly, I’m bringing in one of the best Simonis cloth installers in the US once I’m ready to change over. Cheers 2 U 2 😊❤️🎱

[@SwamiIsa]

Ron, I am going to have new cloth put on my table. I have two questions for you. 1. When yours was redone, did that include the bumpers? 2. What did you pay for the cloth and installation? Appreciate you vids and look forward to more of them.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks Swami. Yes, the rails were done at the same time. I bought my cloth through Amazon for 341.00. The install was $300. Also, It’s breaking in nicely now and I love it. Thanks again 👍🏻

[@jamesdavis8731]

Looks really really good. Have to be honest - I am envious as a person can get. I am working on getting my own table, which has been a dream of mine. I am a workout warrior. I love to practice so much my wife is worried I might never leave the house - which would probably be close to the truth. As far as those pockets, lol, they are NOT buckets. Not even close. Some people just want to take others down. Ignore them.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Having your own table at home James is great. Instead of sitting in front of the TV, we can spend quality time on our table learning this awesome game. Thanks 👍🏻

[@rhett462]

Looks freaking phenomenal brother…. And on comes more lessons and progression, on legit equipment at that

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks man, I can’t wait to get after it 👍🏻😊👍🏻

[@dinorojo]

Looks great Ron. Looks similar to one of my kids college (Boise St U) football field! Any connection? They call it the Smurf Turf. No insult, looks fantastic. Are you going to post a video on noticeable performance differences after swapping out new felt?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I’ve seen blue FB fields also and yes, I’ll be shooting video of the performance soon. Thanks too 👍🏻

[@SuperAlain123456]

I heard that the opening degre of open pocquet should be around 37 degres.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thank you Alain 👍🏻

[@ericbullock3188]

what was on the table before?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Championship tournament cloth. Here’s what I had to deal with before. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5iwd6ptZdiFic0

[@cj-ef1rp]

155* is the angle of the opening compared to the face edge of the rail (or so I am lead to believe). 4-5/8, 4-1/2, 4-1/4 matters not as much as shelf depth. The deeper the shelf (like a Diamond or a Rasson) and the pocket won’t take a sloppy rail slide. They just bounce back and forth between the jaws. Table looks great. Treat yourself to some really nice balls (Arcos, TV Tournament or Dynasphere Platinums) and you’ll see a marked reduction in wear marks on your table. They are harder, have less friction, and don’t collect as much dust. And a spray of Quick Clean after every 8 hours of play keeps your cloth like new for a really long time!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks cj 👍🏻 As for the quick clean however, the last time I misted my cloth for cleaning, it loosened up thus resulting in having a slower surface to shoot on. Have you found this to be an issue with yours? Maybe it happened because I used it on my then Championship cloth 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️

[@cj-ef1rp]

I haven’t had an issue, and I also have Championship cloth currently. I would suspect it had more to do with the temp/humidity in your pool room. I surely don’t use any pressure when wiping the cloth and use a microfiber towel to gently sweep the surface.

[@beercanbrian1880]

Looks awesome! My Gold Crown VI will have the same cloth. Table will have 4 1/2 inch pockets. Perfect size for the playing amateur.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Four of our Gold Crowns at the billiard hall have huge pockets while a fifth has basically the same pockets as my Olhausen. When I played on my singles league, we played on these tables. The players hated the tighter pocket table and referred to it as being haunted 😀. I played most of my matches on this table and won first session lol.

[@beercanbrian1880]

@@ronthepoolstudent My hall has Diamonds and Gold Crowns. Both tables have tight pockets but play tight differently. The GC will reject shots more than the Diamond but the Diamonds have a deeper shelf leaving some deep hangers. Each table can be maddening in their own way. Still, rather play on a tight pocket table than a 🪣 table.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@beercanbrian1880 I hear ya, my neighbor’s 7’ table has 5 1/4” pockets with 5/8” deep shelves, no challenge whatsoever.

[@beercanbrian1880]

@@ronthepoolstudent 😁 Might as well play at the Grand Canyon.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@beercanbrian1880 Before my table arrived, I played on that table for a couple months. I found I had a false sense of ability once my table was set up.

[@jeremywillhoit7923]

Hey Ron wow love your new felt! Now will your pool balls roll forever on that new cloth for like 3-4 years when you hit hard, or will the balls slow down a little once the cloth has been used for 2 months like it's broken into? I notice a difference in cloth and I don't understand it but at the clubhouse we play at pool table cloth wears out after 3 months and you have to hit harder

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I’d say the cloth gets faster as the fuzziness goes away. I played on this same cloth during leagues and it was even faster than what I now have here. Btw, I’m able to get the cue ball to easily hit seven cushions without hammering it right now, I just make a good followthrough stroke with running spin.

[@bobstaats8127]

Yes, those long rails will let a ball that touches pre pocket go in as the new "slickness" of the cloth wears off. Also banks and kicks will slide ("open") at first too. Many like to tighten pickets so must be more accurate when shooting...there is a "balance" however as learning to make balls into various entryways into pocket ( aka " cheating" the pocket) is a skill that needs practiced also. Table looks great...enjoy!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@bobstaats8127 thanks Bob 👍🏻

[@joebermuda6452]

Olhausen 9 footer?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

8 foot Joe.

[@jalee6587]

Looks like 4.75" pockets not small but not buckets. Add in the 2" shelf and 150 degree angles it will play more like 4.5" pockets.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

They actually measure 4 5/8” at the points Ja Lee. We were able to draw up and tighten the butt joints which narrowed the wings even further.

[@hank6887]

That is a swesome billard room , super nice !

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks, it was my master bedroom 🤷🏻‍♂️😀

[@tmangan327]

Is it the simonis 860 HR? Roylay Blue or Tournament Blue?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Somonis 860 HR tournament blue Tim.

[@tmangan327]

@ronthepoolstudent I'm I'm actually debating back and forth between the HR or doing the Predator Reserve on my 7 ft Valley table

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@tmangan327 I’ve shot on the Predator and found no difference 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@tmangan327 are your referring to the Arcadia?

[@tmangan327]

@@ronthepoolstudent Yes sir

[@638zr1]

Very nice cloth and table! What's your table size?

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks, It’s an 8 foot CW3 G.

[@638zr1]

​@@ronthepoolstudentAwesome, I appreciate the quick reply and info!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@638zr1 you’re welcome 👍🏻

[@638zr1]

​@@ronthepoolstudentanother question for you bossman, is this the Simonis tournament blue color? I'm looking to copy! Love the color

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@638zr1 yes it is CW3. Here’s a link to the cloth I bought. Note: the link below pricing & size, is for an 8’ table. www.amazon.com/Iwan-Simonis-Table-Cloth-Tournament/dp/B089VQH25Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=3G4PQW9SDWEH0&keywords=simonis+860hr&qid=1708211862&sprefix=Simonis+%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-3

[@joelellerbine]

nice job on the recloth. will you post a video showing the installation? on the topic of pockets they definitely favor the bucket side of things. tightness/toughness really does not even enter the equation unless 4.5 or below and now with the slick cloth at all tournaments and clean conditions/balls there is no coincidence why players are considering 4.5 inch pockets a bucket. tournaments are now going to 4-4.25 inch. factoring in the 8 foot table size rather than a 9 foot really also lends to more of a bucket or at least bucketish..

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I have not gone through my video of the install as of yet. I’ll be putting something together but it will most likely be a time lapse video.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Also, one of the things I often do when practicing, (as shown in some of my channel’s videos) I will install pocket reducers. This necks down the pocket to approximately 3 3/8”. This really makes me bear down as even the slightest contact on the way in will kick the shot out.

[@joelellerbine]

@@ronthepoolstudent i love the pocket reducers for certain shots but for other types of shots the pocket reducers do not really give the proper feel for how a ball can and should enter a properly cut pocket even if tight

[@joelellerbine]

@@ronthepoolstudent btw i was not knocking the pocket size just to clarify because you had mentioned some people being malicious but will have to call a spade a spade...

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@joelellerbine yes, pocket reducers are I’ll advised when we are playing position from a shot. When I use them, it is actually for aim and accuracy.

[@wojo9732]

Nice felt

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I love it too Wojo, It plays super nice 👍🏻

[@HillbillyIslandLife]

Let it slide baby. Get ur tourney game in shape while it’s slick. Throw a heater below it and it will be like lightning

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Really? I’ve heard of heaters beneath but wasn’t sure the reason.

[@slprhooptie]

Royal blue? New subsciber and tagging along for the rattle. My new to me Connally does this as well. I'm going to throw new cloth on mine this week and if it's something I can fix while I'm there would be great

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks for subscribing slprhooptoe. The color is tournament blue actually. Very cool btw on the table and it’s new cloth to come. I’m really liking my new Simonis but it’s sure different than my old Championship cloth. Thanks again 👍🏻

[@slprhooptie]

@@ronthepoolstudent that's what I went with is the championship merc ultra. Didnt want to go all out being my first cloth job lol

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@slprhooptie what year is your Connelly table?

[@slprhooptie]

@@ronthepoolstudent not sure without calling. Appears to be a gen 2 ventana

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@slprhooptie 👍🏻

[@HillbillyIslandLife]

What ya wanna know? There is stuff online about pocket degrees and how it’s almost more important than dimensions.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I notice some diamonds look parallel wing to wing.

[@gr8ful68]

I like the blue color...

[@ronthepoolstudent]

My favorite too Gary 👍🏻

[@gr8ful68]

@ronthepoolstudent I kept mine the same as it was in 1966 and went with tan (camel) ... I kind of regret it seeing that blue on your table ... looking good!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@gr8ful68 when I was 16 my parents bought a Brunswick 8’ with your color cloth. I like that color as well. This blue is amazing however when it’s clean and new.

[@johnbell452]

Angle should be 141. Larger angles create tougher pockets with more rattle. 4 5/8 with 155 makes for a tough pocket.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thanks John 👍🏻

[@johnbell452]

The side pockets should be 103 +/-1. 141 is just the corners. Vertical angles should be 12 on both.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

👍🏻

[@PoolandBilliards]

Same as my table - Olhausen 860 - but is yours Royal Blue or Tournament Blue? You can see both on my table as I switched from TB to RB in my short refelting video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kICclK1oi61gjcU

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Cool P and B. Mine is actually the tournament blue.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I shot some video of mine being installed and will be doing a time lapse as well. Cool angle from above btw.

[@PoolandBilliards]

@@ronthepoolstudent Will watch for it and check it out!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@PoolandBilliards cool 👍🏻

[@HillbillyIslandLife]

I know this. Pro pool is going tighter and tighter. Soon, they won’t play on anything over 4 1/4” pockets. Probably 4” when it’s said and done. So keep that in mind next time u recover ur table

[@joelellerbine]

american pool is the only one using pockets double the size of a ball thinking it is not a bucket...english 8 ball 3.2"... snooker 3.5 inch.......chinese 8 ball 3.8 inch......russian pyramid 3 about 3 inch and a bigger ball!!! no wonder europeans are destroying us

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@rackem3273 thanks @rackem, American’s should never win again when playing international tournaments then. 😉

[@2869may]

VERY NICE...!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Gotta give thanks to Lance my sparring partner as he did the install. I’ll pass this along and thank you 👍🏻😊👍🏻

[@2869may]

@@ronthepoolstudent That humidifier was a good idea, I ended up having to re-stretch my cloth... I don't know if it was a humidity thing or just natural wear, but it became somewhat loose.

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@2869may loose = slow too. I had that same thing after I used Pool table cloth cleaner. I’m not 100% sure this was why mine loosened up but it seemed to right after. I noticed the table was playing slow from then on.

[@2869may]

@@ronthepoolstudent I used a cloth that was just barely damp to clean it, It's only Championship cloth with Teflon, But it got significantly loose... Lot's of staple pulling... lol

[@ronthepoolstudent]

@@2869may when I used the spray cloth cleaner, I followed the instructions to a T. Even then, I immediately saw wrinkles occurs as soon as I misted 12” above the cloth. The instructions had warned this may happen but that once dry, the wrinkles would disappear. The wrinkles did go away but the table seemed slower from that point on 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@HillbillyIslandLife]

They bobble because the shims in the pocket facings get dry and worn out. U r angles r actually very forgiving in the angle cut of pocket world. I’ll find the video and share it to you. Gobble, Gobble!!

[@ronthepoolstudent]

They are hard rubber I noticed 👍🏻

[@HillbillyIslandLife]

At around 143 to 145 degrees, everything bobbles unless u hit dead center pocket

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I think the 2” shelf depth is the culprit here. It’s just deep enough that the ball will park just short of the edge (1/4”) when it rattles I’ve noticed.

[@FingerJam12]

Ok that had nothing to do with the cloth, lol. Nice table tho...

[@ronthepoolstudent]

Thank you, this is right after the install Finger. See link below: How to improve fast kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqKypHyBZ9Jjr7M

[@330devans]

Those are no way “buckets”. All over social media it’s comment after comment about pocket size. From my experience, when it comes down to playing these players that do nothing but talk “bucket” pockets and table conditions, have no real game to back up all their chirps. Yes ball pocketing and accuracy is important. I mean can’t win if you can’t make balls. Although there is so much more to the game. Aspects that most pocket nazi rail birds lack. I mean go play Russian pyramid if you want a pocket that just fits a ball. That looks like a real fun time! 😒

[@ronthepoolstudent]

I’d love to play every one of these people that have left that comment Devan and thank you for weighing in. As I’ve had the honor to meet and play some real monsters of the game, there is one thing I’ve come to learn for sure, great players would never criticize another player or make fun of pockets on a Pool table. So when I see one of these comments, I just smile and thank the person for watching as I know, they are just sorry individuals that have no Pool skills and have nothing better to do than play keyboard troll on the internet. Thanks again bud 👍🏻😊 ❤️🎱