NEW Walthers Turnouts: How Have They Improved? (259)

Walthers turnouts were off the market a few years after their manufacturer, Shinohara, shut down. Now they're back and I managed to pick up a pair from my local dealer. So let's compare one to the old design and see whether Walthers have made any changes, and if there are significant improvements.

[@mikedurhan9941]

"..........and just like that, the Micro Engineering turnout was obsolete............" (which could not be found anyway). Another thing; one of my new Walthers #5 turnouts was assembled incorrectly and was defective. I spoke with Walthers about this and they said they were completely sold out - as was the dealer I bought mine from. I "patched up" the defective turnout and it seemed to work, although it was rather fragile at the repair. Much to my surprise a brand new #5 arrived two months later. I was very pleased at what Walthers did for me in that situation. They didn't forget me. They must be a really great company. Thanks for the fine review, Larry.

[@csxtrainman95]

Thank you for this video! I am starting my first layout and this was the most helpful video I have found about a review/opinion on model railroad track

[@chrisridd9423]

Kudos to Walthers to investing in, and updating their turnouts. The continuous point blades look really nice!

[@kents.2866]

Man Walthers thought of everything designing these. I like the idea about the pilot holes for nails, makes us people who don't use nails happy, makes the people who use nails happy.

[@avlisk]

These look like the turnouts I've wanted for my layouts for the last 60 years! They are beautifully thought out!

[@gsigs]

Concur, best turnouts available. One note of warning - while the #4 looks like it is a drop-in replacement for an Atlas #4, the geometry is slightly different. It is not a problem in most cases, but in a tight situation like a yard there will be issues. Still, definitely worth the cost to upgrade, and I am a cheap SOB. (Note that Walthers has full size diagrams of the switches that you can print out and see if they will fit where you want. The differences between the Atlas and Walthers switches were too small to notice when I did this.)

[@TheDCCGuy]

I think the no. 5 turnouts are an excellent compromise where space is a concern. I use larger ones where passenger cars will be operated but for freights the no. 5 works very well.

[@EL-nc1cs]

Thanks for sharing.....hopefully we'll see these in code 70 also.

[@PeterGlen-s9z]

These look to be the best points out there in model rr world, their double crossover is also very nice.

[@nicksanto882]

Interesting segment. I just rebuilt a couple of Shinohara turnouts I had. Walthers did make some very fine improvements! Thanks for sharing!

[@johnbanicki7232]

Walthers did a great job upgrading these turnouts.

[@dchiler1278]

Larry, Nice Video. I've replaced several of my older Walthers turnouts as well as the Atlas brand and one thing I noticed is that there are very small holes through the ties and (tie plates) in several places on each side of the rails and I've used "track spikes" instead of track nails. Not sure if this was intended but to me it looks more realistic using track spikes instead of track nalls.(#6 turnouts have 8 set of holes, one on each side of the rails for a total of 16 anchor points.)

[@tas7997]

I like the new Walthers turnouts. They work great for me. Only had one become unsoldered at points and was easy fix! 👍

[@dundasjunctionmodelr.r-jam8267]

Larry yes I really like these turnouts, much better than the new Peco unifrog, I will using these on my new layout, hope to build a helix to my new yard , great video

[@lionellance]

Great update..thanks for sharing and keep up the great work..Lance

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing. A very nice-looking turnout.

[@coyotterestoration1754]

Nice work on the helix looks great!

[@billdeitemeyer8325]

Larry, I'm fairly new to your site but really enjoy your commentary. You seem quite objective regarding different brands and you are detailed in your explanations. Thanks

[@peterjhillier7659]

Excellent new Turnout, looks just the Ticket, Thanks for the Critique Larry, by the way in the UK on the P. Way we used to call the Track in front of the Switch Blades the Forearms, what do the call them in North America?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Do you mean the main track rails that lead into the turnouts? I have always called them the running rails but I don’t know if there is a railroad term for them other than the rails. Once they become part of the turnout they are the stock rails.

[@4everdc302]

Some have had issues with the M.E. ones. So this looks to be a very promising product line 🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲🙋

[@kenmaloney2793]

What sort of issues? I have one loco that is having some sort of interference problem with the old model turnouts. I can't see what it is but if I push the loco through the turnout it starts to drag on something about half way through.

[@4everdc302]

@@kenmaloney2793 Check out Sparky107107 on him ripping out all his new ME switches(real issues). I know he had mentioned to me in person about powering frogs&"Don't".fried a decoder. He's the guy to ask.🙋

[@frankhellman6879]

Great review! A couple other changes I see. The point rails on the new turnout are thinner than typical code 83 rail. Obviously this is what allowed the nice bending ability. It's still an aesthetic improvement to my eyes. The plastic point slide is a bit different. This isn't germane unless you're replacing old Walthers with new Walthers and depended on something that's changed. You didn't mention length or diverge angle, but they're likely not an exact replacement for any of the Peco #5 units. Side note - Some I know won't nail or glue down a turnout. The reason the give is it can create twisting & undulations in the unit that can affect function. Caulking with or w/o weighting them down can also bend the unit if the base/roadbed isn't level or the weight isn't evenly applied. Some cite that the ballast & adjacent track will hold turnouts just right w/o any other attachment. Thanks!

[@TheDCCGuy]

My feeling is take the time and effort to get the roadbed perfectly flat with good construction techniques and then sand the roadbed before installing the turnout and you won’t have twisting or deformations. I test my turnout installations by running my trains in reverse through them at half speed. I don’t have derailments in normal operations.

[@frankhellman6879]

@@TheDCCGuy You sure do! That's the gold standard I'm going to emulate right now as I've just finished covering my plywood with 1/16" cork, spent several days weighting down the seams, then a small planer, then sanding it (I'll be laying track directly on this cork to build up in-street rail for a 1940s Philadelphia urban industrial area). The cork really makes a difference in sound deadening. I'm following a number of your techniques. My comment was in the vein of 'have you seen some of the roadbed work out there??? '. 😧

[@michaelwright185]

Not permanently attaching the turnout would make it easier to remove in the future if needed...

[@charlesweston4352]

I noticed that as well. Actually makes the turnout look a little odd. They are not that thin on the new Peco Unifrog, although the Walthers frog is better looking.

[@Bigfoot-ju9ws]

SUPER HELPFUL - THANKS!

[@ronaldrondeau7870]

thanks and great news

[@mariner3485]

I have been using the old Shinohara code 83 turnouts in my current layout construction (since I had them) - they required quite a bit of work to make them DCC friendly as well as fitting them into tight yard spaces. Like the new Walthers turnouts, they look pretty good. You made no mention about the new Walthers turnouts requiring 'surgery' to fit them into yards or to maintain 2" track spacing - in a past video, you praised one brand (Piko or was it Micro Engineering?) as not requiring any 'surgery'. Just saying - that point was not discussed in this review.

[@artiekrass7391]

Just re-watched this video as purchased some of the #4's for my yard. Quick question as I intend to use these just using the built in spring switch - if I use the Tam Valley Dual Frog juicer can I wire up some dwarf signals/LED's to these turnouts using the the LED outputs from the Dual Frog juicer board? If so - would make a good future video for you to make 🙂

[@alanmusicman3385]

Excellent video as always Larry. These new Walthers turnouts do look very well engineered and as you said a very well thought out package overall. I'm a bit vague on why retaining the over-centre springs on them might damage a Tortoise or other point motor? Sure I can see it would make the changeover happen suddenly in a most unrealistic way (as the old solenoid motor approach did) , but damage the motor?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I assume it is the increased pressure required to overcome the spring. DCC Concepts have done tests and found the spring can significantly decrease the lifetime of their switch machines and also recommend removing the springs in turnouts.

[@alanmusicman3385]

@@TheDCCGuy Oh right - well I guess they know their business. Maybe it suddenly races the motor and creates back EMF that their drivers can't cope with. Ah well, I think (I hope) most people know to remove the springs anyway when using slow-mo motors.

[@billwalsh5023]

Support, made in USA!

[@Shoobylives]

I'm an N scaler. Any plans for us little guys on this brand? The PECO unifrogs, which were my original plan, are simply not available in large radius, and even medium radius unifrogs are scarcer than hen's teeth.

[@TheDCCGuy]

You’d have to ask Walthers. They seem to mainly focus their production on HO scale though.

[@Shoobylives]

@@TheDCCGuy I checked the catalog: all HO. Everything seems to be out of stock. I can't find those clevises for the Blue Point machines anywhere, except on Ebay at ridiculous prices, and the vaunted PECO Unifrog is only available in "medium radius", which is no help since I don't know how to compare them to the KATO number sixes I used on my old layout. I may be stuck with Kato for life. Keep up the videos. They've helped me quite a bit and you always do a great job of explaining every step.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, much of what Walthers sells is made in China in batches. They get it in and ship it out to hobby shops, fulfill back orders, and then wait for another shipment from China. And once tariffs are slapped on you may not be able to get much of anything.

[@TheDCCGuy]

PS-check with Tonys Trains, I got my control pushrods from them when nobody else had them.

[@B-and-O-Operator-Fairmont]

7:10 - That's "digital" control!

[@DeadbyA10]

Is that a through-hole in the tie that connects to the frog so you don't have to use the eyelet at the end? I feel like it might be easier to hide a connection there.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’ll test it with a meter to see if it is.

[@alanloizeaux4881]

Nice improvements. Are these gauged correctly?

[@Ken-Kaef]

G'Day. Thanks for a great comparison. At our club, Adelaide Model Raiolroaders, we have been using Shinohara and Walthers code 83 track and need to purchase some more turnouts and track. One question you did not answer is are the thickness (depth) of the ties on the new Walthers turn outs the same as the old ones? Cheers Ken.

[@TheDCCGuy]

OK, I measured one of my older Walthers and one of the brand new ones and the ties are essentially the same thickness. The older ones measured 1.51-1.54 mm and the new one came in at 1.54-1.56 mm. Hope that helps-Larry

[@derekalexander4030]

Great review. I’ve been waiting for 2 years for these. Can the spring be removed from the top of the track? I ask because I plan to install them without switch machines in the beginning and convert them as money allows. If not, I guess I would have to remove the springs and use ground throws in the meantime, unless you can think of an alternative.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I am not sure, but you could try it with one as a test. I have done it with a MicroEngineering turnout in the past and it is a similar mechanism. I think I just slid a no. 17 blade between the ties and pushed it out. You also need to drill the hole for the actuating rod before installing the turnout and that fives you a place for the spring and it’s little cover plate to fall through when you do eventually pop it out.

[@RFMCabooseNP1713]

Cool.

[@ronwalters9085]

They look great. However, I have several 3-way turnouts code 83 which look like the old kind in that the point blades are hinged. I thought the packaging said DCC friendly but how do I know and can you help me or point me somewhere that I can find out what needs to be done and how to know if they need modified or not. Are there wiring diagrams available using tortoise machines and Frog juicers if I want to go that way? Sorry for all thequestions but am having trouble figuring this out.

[@TheDCCGuy]

The package should say whether it is DCC friendly or not. For specifics on wiring a 3-way check Allan Gartner’s wiringfordcc.com website.

[@ronduz1281]

Looks like Walthers did a great job. Cost vs the competitors?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Current MSRP: Walthers $31.98, MicroEngineering $31.60, Peco $37.99. However I got them for $23.66, $22.04, and $26.06 respectively.

[@isaiahfurrow7414]

i think I will be using Walthers flex track, turnouts, and some of their switch machines... just can't decide between code 100 and 83.... any advice on that?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Code 100 can be useful if you have older locos and rolling stock with deep flanges. It’s also more forgiving if kids are involved. Code 83 is much closer to prototype so looks better.

[@michaeldenoncourt1526]

Hi Larry, As always thanks for what you do. Would you still use the microengineering ladder track system for tight spaces?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I don’t know. I have never actually seen those so don’t have a feel for their quality and operation. However, if I needed such a specialized installation I guess I would give it a try.

[@derekalexander4030]

Check out sparky107107, he used the ladder system and had big problems and tore them up and replaced all of it.

[@dwightatnorthernstar1820]

Makes me wish I was rebuilding my layout. Will N scale also be offered?

[@TheDCCGuy]

So far it looks like everybody BUT Walthers is making N scale turnouts so I would expect them to jump in. However given how long it took to get HO into production and the state of the Chinese economy It won’t likely be soon-check out Peco unifrogs.

[@stewarttrains98]

Are you able to swap head block ties to either side like on the atlas ? If so that would be a complete winner. As there are times the switch stand needs to be on the opposite side.

[@TheDCCGuy]

They seem to be molded in so the only option would be surgery.

[@george_panella]

I'm really curious what your opinion will be with the Peco Unifrog turnouts compared to these. I have 14 Peco Unifrog turnouts waiting to be used on my "in progress" switching layout. I certainly hope I didn't make a poor choice.

[@avlisk]

Peco makes quality turnouts. I have always liked their Electrofrog turnouts. When my local hobby shop was liquidating stock, they had a great sale on Peco Insulfrogs. I was hesitant, but took a chance. I found all my 4 axle diesels have no issues with the Peco Insulfrogs, #5 or #6 or the curved ones. A month later, I heard about the Peco Unifrogs, but have no experience with them. Yes, I am curious too.

[@avlisk]

And I run NCE DCC.

[@dundasjunctionmodelr.r-jam8267]

I think these are better than the new Peco unifrog turnouts

[@TheDCCGuy]

My dealer shipped me the Peco yesterday so I should be able to answer that question today or tomorrow. If all goes well I could do a video review for next Friday.

[@dundasjunctionmodelr.r-jam8267]

Major issue with unifrog is how how throw bar is assembled, very poor only bent tabs, I needed crazy glue to secure mine

[@PeterGlen-s9z]

I am a little confused, What type of switch do i use on a control panel for these nice points

[@TheDCCGuy]

Watch my videos on building control panels.

[@donaldshroyer8633]

Are the rails nickel silver, brass, or something else?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Does anyone make brass or steel rails anymore, I don’t know of them?

[@chicagodenvernorthern999]

Do you know if they will add code 70 to this line?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’m just happy they got the code 83 out of China.

[@claytons8263]

What would cause a DC engine cross 1 switch but stalls in the middle of the 2nd switch?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Are the frogs of both powered? If not then dirty track, irregularities in the frog geometry, dirt or oxidation on one side of the wheels, etc. Does this happen consistently with more than one loco or just occasionally with one or more?

[@claytons8263]

@@TheDCCGuy Yes it does it with all locos steam and diesel.The switches are brand new manual (no power) and the engine is a first time run over the switch I forgot to mention earlier that all locos run great on and off the siding (sw 2) it stalls on the main side of (sw 2) Sw 1 works both ways.

[@TheDCCGuy]

They may be stalling on the electrically dead frog or one of the points may not be clean and not getting electricity.

[@claytons8263]

@@TheDCCGuy It's stalling as it goes a x the frog was thinking about buying another switch to replace it.and see what happens. I will check the switch and see if there's a short Thank you for your time

[@rapcreeperproductions3269]

Do they have n scale switches as well?

[@kents.2866]

Unfortunately I don't think so. As far as N scale, you have Pico, Atlas, and Micro Engineering.

[@donaldshroyer8633]

Did you mean Peco?

[@BASILPANAS]

@@kents.2866 How would you rate Peco, ME and Atlas on terms of derailments?

[@kents.2866]

@@BASILPANAS I had Atlas a kids, worked pretty well. From what I have read others are better.

[@Hutch314]

Wants the best switch machine

[@diliplandage5817]

In maharashtra India me available hai

[@TinShackVideos]

Teeeeco

[@TheDCCGuy]

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