New Zealand rugby pundits on one of the most controversial ends to a match ever | The Breakdown

The Breakdown rugby show is back with Mils Muliaina, Jeff Wilson and John Kirwan as they discuss the crazy end to Australia vs New Zealand in The Rugby Championship. #TheBreakdown
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[@JethroWestraad]

It’s not only about time wasting, it’s about blatantly ignoring a direct call from the ref three times. Rule number 1 in rugby is to play to the refs’ whistle.

[@plc2866]

Couldn’t agree more. There was no respect for the reff.

[@shezadm6300]

Yeah he wasn't listening to the ref even after so many warnings so it was a fair enough call! By the way, the videos on the playlist on my channel might interest some people!

[@marksheehan8026]

I agree but if was ABS you'd be bleeting

[@edwardparsons5316]

@@marksheehan8026 whenever it's controversial and not us yeah agree bleeding .....

[@MorAodhan]

Rayner doesn't command respect, because he's a narcissistic and incompetent ref. He decided to penalise one aspect of potential _time-wasting_ after a whole previous 78mins of time-wasting, because he saw the clock and Foley annoyed him. I'd have no issue if it was a referee who was consitent with their rulings, had been enforcing them all game and didn't just act out on a whim to make it all about themself. Rayner unfortunately has a history of these antics and should never be refereeing rugby (at any level really) at this level.

[@daynos]

This conversation turned pretty dumb quickly. The Ref asked Foley to kick the ball. Then stopped the clock and warned him. Then started the clock and still asked him again before blowing the whistle. This wasn’t regular time wasting. This was ignoring the Ref. Australia were going to get the throw in yet half the team were having a discussion while half were shouting at Foley to kick the ball because they heard the Refs multiple warnings. Aussies up in arms over this call? Really? How about the fact that the should have been down to 14 men and wouldn’t have gotten back into the lead.

[@brucetaylor8848]

He was wasting no time in time wasting......quick get on with the time wasting, what a pack of clowns

[@richardmatatahi4563]

Last comment was "I wait I wait I wait, penalty All Blacks" was all they (All Blacks) needed. Still had to get the ball over the line to win. One of the rules why a penalty is given states - Any other action the referee considers to be "contrary to good sportsmanship" (such as throwing the ball away while play is stopped to prevent a prompt restart, especially if time is close to expiring) that's any Action. Foley failure to get on with it, was deemed time wasting. Had he just kicked the ball out then, Australia would have retained possession for the resulting throw into the lineout. Then a simple kick out over the sideline would have won it for Australia but that didn't happen Assuming they won the lineout.

[@tommyparis5047]

What you guys did not notice is that : it was not about new zealand or australia. It was just about a men story : the referee is talking to this player, he explains he wants him to play, he shouts at him, stop the time, explain again…. But the other one don’t listen and acts as he was not there… so the referee gets pissed off

[@justinstephenson9360]

Completely agree with JK that World Rugby should be looking at time wasting generally. I also like JK's idea of having an NBA style clock for taking kicks, scrums and line outs. Of course, there are other issues with that idea which would need to ironed out. Ultimately, being an England fan I am not biased to either Aus or NZ. However, I was taught from the first time I started learning to play rugby, that you play to the ref's whistle or instructions. I am sure every NZ school kid starting rugby gets taught the same thing. The ref was very clear in his instructions, half the Aus team knew the risk and were screaming at Foley to take the kick immediately, Foley suffered a brain fart and failed to follow the ref's instructions. It might be unusual but it was clearly the right decision and I hope more ref's follow it especially in the last few minutes of a tight game

[@joedennehy386]

Well said. Play to the whistle

[@seanhobbs5222]

Agreed, no rolling subs though that'll create even more issues

[@markreynolds1112]

yea i dont want to watch a speeded up version of the game wer the subtleties of the set piece r removed. if u want a dumb dwnd version of rugby thn u can watch the league

[@JacovanRensburg]

shit idea, next we are going to have adverts every 10min and strategy breaks and all kinds of other BS, it all comes with more control. All we need is consistent fair refereeing, applying laws equally for all teams

[@kyuzo26]

TLDR : Foley fucked up NZ capitalised on it and won.

[@camwells9726]

I think it’s a bit of both , ref was within his rights , time wasting is in the rules , But the wallabies probably unlucky in the sense that it hasn’t been seen before like that , But looking forward I’d like to see time wasting looked at as a permanent thing to clamp down on , a fast game is a good game

[@georgefrederikoosthuizen891]

From sbok i agree.....its like its new ,but it can be the rule...me personly think the ref could gave more few sec,specially when he saw foley step forward to kick that stage he could give 2sec ,but he didnt even hesitate....,but then the ausies got another chance with scrum and another change to defend..also i understand one try pass was forward and no .11(koboite)tackled again no arms not even a penalty...🤷‍♂️

[@camwells9726]

@@georgefrederikoosthuizen891 yeah we always tend to look at crucial plays right at the end of the game , there were other calls that went Australia’s way through the game , such as the try with a suspect pass and the dangerous clean-out that many are saying should have been red not yellow.

[@georgefrederikoosthuizen891]

@@camwells9726 yep exactly....that koite or no.11 he tackled dangerous with no arms atleast once every game never got penelized...the thing is nz played 81minute and ausies 79min🤷‍♂️and like we said more calls against nz the for nz...🤷‍♂️

[@jasonstewart194]

It hasn't been seen before because in all my years watching rugby I've never seen a ref actually be so gracious as to stop the clock, tell a player what consequences are going to happen if he doesn't do something when the whistle and clock gets restarted, only for the player to basically take the piss a third time around despite knowing exactly what will happen! You might be unlucky to get arrested for pissing on your own doorstep because it's never been done before, but if the cop tells you he's going to do it if you try - are you really unlucky?

[@Richardtv1968]

Love Raynal for his decision, he refereed just as if it was the first minute!! Raynal was spot on!

[@redherronrecords]

The ref told Foley to wait after the Kellaway try and lo and behold he took that conversion right away... then he gets told to play the goddamn ball and apparently can't bring himself to kick it in less than 50 seconds. Listen to the referee, kids.

[@jpc7118]

yes, you can humiliate once a referee, not twice ;)

[@shezadm6300]

Yeah the call was correct. the ref gave Foley so many warnings! By the way, the videos on the playlist on my channel might interest some people!

[@marcusd9192]

It was Foleys fault. He was deliberately running down the clock and got asked numerous times by the referee to kick it.

[@mangatitiful]

And did not do that - at that critical moment - a great decision. He defied the ref.

[@firmfoundation7421]

The ref was like " I'm in charge, not you ". " Do you understand now? " 🙄

[@mvubu6823]

Seen time wasting at scrums and libeouts hundreds of times. As a neutral, this call was spot on.

[@cruise2023]

Spot on if it suits, timing wise not so much, should of been introduced during the game and not with less than 2 min to go. Penalty goal is allowed 60 sec, Mo'unger kick earlier on took him 80 sec, was he penalized, NO!

[@cloudydaez]

@@cruise2023 Richie’s kick was delayed because there were people on the field. If you watch it again you will a team assistant walking off while the ref waited and Richie waited. The ref is the adjudicator of the game he is the one that stops play and says play on. In this case the ball could not be kicked until the team official had left the field so even though Mo’unga had already placed the ball the time didn’t start until the field was clear and he had been given the ok by the ref. From the time he moved in to kick the ball until the time the ball sailed through the posts it was 39 secs exactly. So your 80 secs is way off

[@gerd5479]

@@cruise2023 2 wrongs dont make a right. Why were his team mates screaming at him to kick to touch?

[@ablewilling2778]

Yep Foley was warned very clearly and very audibly. CLEAR CUT. He was too cynical to listen.

[@Natedawg38]

I love how jk is indirectly hilarious with his no nonsense turn of phrase here.

[@dougsaunders8109]

When you see the footage with the ref mic, he warned the Aussies to get on with it they did not. Got pinged. End of. Listen to the ref he kept talking. Bloody great game for the neutral. Brilliant entertainment

[@plethoranz]

JK on point here with the shot clock Introduce that, make it so line outs have to be within 50 seconds or what ever, penalties within 10 seconds. That way we all know it was ONLY Foley's fault.

[@joedennehy386]

The only problem with jks theory is that scrums require co operation from both sides. If there was a time limit on every other plays I agree. Just don't know about the scrum

[@goofusan1448]

The referee’s discretion in the heat of the moment is critical, so there is no need to change the rules. In this case, the referee’s reaction is expected because anyone on the winning side will do anything to waste time in such a critical moment. Unfortunately, this is the mindset and the way it is, and the referee stepped up to the mark and made a warning. If this had happened halfway through the game, it would have been a different story because there is no urgency. Good on you ref!

[@mangatitiful]

That's just how I think. They were cheating at that critical moment - excellent decision. I might have given a penalty try!

[@jpc7118]

@@mangatitiful No, you can't reverse a pen in a penalty try for wasting time, it's not int he rule and I don't see any reason for it. but once the scrum was given, the try was not yet done, it was up to Aussies to defend greatly their line. They failed.

[@wcf75]

People are barking up at the wrong tree. The ref was 100% correct in his decision. They should talk about Nick's attitude for time wasting thus causing them to lose the match.

[@gerd5479]

Forget about the referee for a moment. Focus on the Aussie players demanding that the number 10 kick the ball, as they knew that the delay could result in a decision in favour of the All Blacks. He continued to delay and his team mates were proved correct. Simple as.

[@monian2877]

if the ref call was done in the 50th mark of the game - it would have not mattered. It only becomes critical because of the time of the game when it takes place. I am for sure if the ref would not penalise him if it was in the 50th minute!

[@barrywells6]

I didn't see a decision made about time wasting, I saw a decision made for ignoring the referee.

[@jpc7118]

I would be tempted to say for both... and both reasons are TOTALLY RIGHT.

[@tomom2011]

It isn't just about the time wasting, it was about the blatant disrespect from Foley who flat out ignored the very very clear instructions to kick as soon as time was on. I'm English, I'm impartial, I don't get the fuss. Right call, simple.

[@archiebobo]

Hahaha “very very clear instructions” you can’t be serious

[@tomom2011]

@@archiebobo the ref was so clear that Foketi was yelling at Foley to kick it. We've now all heard the audio, the ref says very explicitly that Foley has to kick as soon as time is back on. What about the forward pass for your try, or the red card that wasn't? Are you still bitching about those calls that went for you and were genuinely wrong? You lost, stop crying.

[@JuanPablo-vw7ko]

@@archiebobo three times calling him to play is not enough? How many more times do you need to make it serious?

[@archiebobo]

@@tomom2011 it’s clear to you because you know what happened in hindsight. “Quick Play” “we play” the referee can barely speak English, very poor communication. And I’m not even talking about this incident, the communication needs to be better for an international test match otherwise next year’s World Cup is going to be a shitshow

[@loxley10]

To give context for ticket prices. Adult ticket prices started at $150 in the Sydney test (Wallabies vs. Boks). As a life long wallaby fan with a South African Brother in-law, I desperately wanted to go to the game with him. But I could not justify that price for a ticket in the corner with the state of the game as it is. I think All Blacks Wallabies contest have been over the years, some of the best running rugby to watch. Regardless of the outcome last game, the contest is so disrupted and at the mercy of the the refs, with interpretation, cards etc. That it no longer provides an experience where the quality of the rugby being played determines the outcome. I can't watch rugby anymore. And I have watched Wallabies for over 20 years, mostly suck. The all Blacks, might in an unstable period, but its because running rugby is not the dominate game plan for victory and they have been slow to adjust is all. The Springboks are perfecting the game plan that will win the next world cup and its no different the one they used to win the last one. It has its own beauty and perfection, but all teams playing that style just kills the joy. Rant over. All the best fellow rugby heads.

[@raf4992]

What a load of shiite...

[@adpmurphy]

As an Irishman I have to agree with my English Fan neighbor it was a good game

[@JuanPablo-vw7ko]

And what about this argentinean fan also neighbor that has also said thati it was a good game?

[@Rustie_za]

The real issue is Aus sporting culture being in a very toxic space recently. Negative play like shoulder charges being celebrated, soccer dives being defended without any embarressment, deliberate time wasting against the spirit of the game, arguning with the ref like soccer players, cricket players using sandpaper to tamper with the ball. It's pervasive and everywhere. Fix your house Aus.

[@cici2716]

Well said!!!!

[@realnohat]

If NZ were on the wrong end of this, we would be whining just as much, if not more. It's a hard one.

[@riaansnyman8747]

Ozzy should have won , you know it

[@realnohat]

​@@riaansnyman8747 Yes, they should have...

[@hellovanite]

@@riaansnyman8747 They also should have been penalised for a forward pass in the last Kellaway try so justice served

[@biggest23]

@@riaansnyman8747 …..No they shouldn’t have. The Kellaway try was from a blatant forward pass, the ref told Foley to wait before he kicked the conversion so that it could be reviewed and Foley ignored him and pushed it between the posts. That was an AB victory all day, every day and as every saffa knows, from having lost their own nation, karma’s a bitch.

[@wallaceclarke3583]

People like you maybe I just enjoy watching win or lose im a All Black fan ...refs is in charge his call ..this is international test rugby highest level in the game

[@stravosio]

World Rugby law 20:5 "A penalty or free-kick must be taken WITHOUT DELAY." The ref had announced time off for play to resettle, then said time on, warned Foley to not delay, he got pinged. Where's the controversy? The Aussies' gripe is really about them losing a game they had in the bag. On the positive side, we should all now know that time wasting is no longer acceptable as a game strategy, certainly when played in front of an international tv audience that is already switching off and instead watching just the highlights on KZbin.

[@jpc7118]

and everyone forget there was still a scrum to play and a defense to put in place instead of blblating to the ref.. .the try was not given, the ABs make it.

[@stealthpakfa]

Referee warned Foley in the 38th minute after getting a penalty and he took his time to kick for touch to kill time since they had 2 players in the sin bin.

[@steveu449]

Commenting as a longtime referee: a correct technical application of the relevant law by M Raynal. However, better (or at least different) game management and clarity of expectation could have been applied. Use of time off and an explicit explanation and warning to the captain would have made the standard required by a rarely applied law clear to all players, spectators and viewers. Set the standard, apply the law. Unfortunately this looked like the reverse: apply a largely forgotten law strictly and then explain the standard post facto. I’m not criticising a fellow referee other than to say there were other ways of managing a tense and exciting moment.

[@archiebobo]

Great comment. I also believe most of then issue here is the poor communication from referee. It really was fairly poor throughout the game. I don’t think his english is good enough for international rugby - not something I enjoy saying but surely it’d be a requirement?

[@alainmathieson9195]

The ref never miscommunicated anything in this incident, He dearly instructed Foley to play, switched time off and said When I switch time on you PLAY. foley even responded to the ref saying we under pressure and gave him a thumbs up. He challenged the ref and the ref stood up to the challenge. No need for the captain to get involved, the instruction WAS CLEAR

[@sirfrancis6058]

That was my opinion too at first but after seeing the footage it's very clear, Raynal made it very clear Foley had to use it

[@steveu449]

No disrespect or looking to incite an argument: referee did not mis-communicate but his communication might have been more explicit; with time-off called the opportunity was there to manage a tense moment differently. Referee could have called captain over and said, “I won’t tolerate time wasting, and when I call play it’s either kicked immediately or it’s turned over”. This brings players, spectators and viewers into the game’s nuances and makes the application of the laws clear to all. If time is the compelling issue then take the time to explain why. No disrespect to a referee doing a tough job under huge pressure and scrutiny but the moment might have benefitted from a more explanatory and less punitive approach.

[@alainmathieson9195]

@@steveu449 i see your viewpoint but I feel his communication was quite clear. The fact that time was switched off and he looked Foley square in the face, telling him I'm going to switch on the time and we play. Foley is a grown man and should have just followed the instruction. It may seem harsh but I do think the ref felt Foley was undermining him and he responded by the laws of the game. I'm not an ref or ever played rugby but do enjoy watching the game. First and foremost Foley is a grown man who clearly understood what the ref told him, was his own doing

[@murrayterwin]

At 2:40 - “was it in the spirit of the game, yes because it’s part of the rules”. Stunning statement considering how it’s typically not in the spirit of the game for them when the ABs lose even if it’s part of the rules.

[@philipalmond1773]

Spot on re time wasting. I was a Rugby Union Fan but it drives me insane watching it now. Im screaming at the TV telling them to get on with it. Roy and HG said quite correctly that Union is a game designed to waste time. It needs to be fixed or only die hards or the inebriated watch it. Rugby League is a much better watch now.

[@iainbarclay6495]

Best discussion from Kiwi's post THE match. We don't want to go the way of NRL in speeding things up - too much of the great contest between the big men on the park would be lost. Maybe put a ticking countdown clock up on the big screens once injuries are clear & the ref calls it. No more time wasting and ambivalence in enforcing the rules.

[@ramsaymillar1948]

The ref was 100% correct. Foley was repeatedly warned and continued to waste time, its all on him.

[@patrickfoley4695]

You beaut Mattieu, had the balls to do it....my namesake got the rule totally wrong!!!

[@ignisraendl3721]

How about this for time keeping: 3 months = 10 minutes... Quin Tupaea has 3 months of knee rehabilitation with potential years off his playing career because of darcy swains deliberate dirty play. no true rugby fan wants to see that either and yet it is hardly mentioned. go figure.

[@erlwinter7000]

Mentioning it brings the industry into disrepute. Thug-life is an ugly side of rugby and it looks disgusting. Better talk about the glory and spectacle and keep the troughs being filled with caviar.

[@clapadamclap]

Nobody would have cared if it was the ABs on the end of that call, the world would have laughed and said good job…

[@pastorofmuppets8834]

No I don't think so. Either way it was a shock, right or wrong

[@ivankurtz1909]

C'mon John don't think 54,000 left frustrated! The roar that went up when Barrett scored to win the game was epic and sounded like 100,000 fans.

[@tahi22]

I was @ the game honestly I was surprise to hear the majority off the the crowed yelling out All Blacks through out the game

[@sunnysamuel7544]

Yeah he's exaggerating abit there But there would of been sum pissed off Aussies no doubt

[@mikespencer4922]

Not Foley's fault?? When his mates are all yelling at him to kick. There were 14 wallabies who knew the rules!

[@geoerasmus3154]

How can you say it was the wrong time to make the call? When will be the right time? It was the correct decision. End of story. Refs around the world should enforce it. Then we will see more rugby! And faster rugby!

[@rileywatson3450]

Because it was a precedent setting call in the 79th minute of a Bledisloe test. It would be like a scrum feed getting called not straight (a law yes but never called) in the 79th minute of a world cup final

[@Chris-vq5vr]

There’s a precedent been set now. Don’t cry foul when the AB’s become victims themselves to such a petty rule.

[@archiebobo]

No, Chris, a precedent hasn’t been set. How often do these things ever become consistent? That’s the worst part. It won’t be called again for another 20 years

[@geoerasmus3154]

World rugby need to grow some balls and teach their referees to enforce all the rules. It doesn’t set no precedent. IT’S A RULE. From a SA fan 🇿🇦. To be honest I thought the call was harsh, but it was in no way wrong, neither at the wrong time. Australia wasted time in the last minutes of the game, which according to me, is a professional foul, rightly so it was punished. The referees timing wasn’t bad, Australia’s timing was bad.

[@NjabuloChi]

I think everyone would agree the Aus/Nz game was exceptional with the time stoppages. For that reason I don't understand what the issue is. I watched the game and didn't even realize the first half was that long .I loved every min of the game .

[@drewideas]

Wow how did this get in my algorithm…. I was on the sidelines during … Im now 56 and struggling to remember but , the pertinent facts are , Grand Final … Mascot vs SouthEastern .. Mascot undefeated all year , its the final minute 's of the game Mascot had just scored to go 9 - 8 in front . South Eastern to kick off. they kick the mascot player gets tackled stays on the ground and the markers line up to let him play the ball, but the Mascot player collapses on the ball and refuses to move and he could be heard saying " We’re Going To Win , We're going to win , The Referee call's Play the Ball , three times he orders the guy to play the ball, The siren sounds and the Referee Penalises Mascot , South Eastern kick the penalty and win the Grand Final. That was time wasting….

[@shaunchandra6008]

i m Australian but am pissed off with Foley

[@Secularworld60]

Wow I was not expecting such an impartial objective discussion , thanks gents , as a wallabies supporter I’m obviously disappointed about the result but what a great game

[@tahlantshakaza5629]

My former manager who happen to referee two world cup finals tasks me as the stats man and other to provide ball in play time stats. Over the years we moved from some games being 28min ball in play time to 38min. I wonder if ball in play is at 40min in 2022. Imagine if fans knew they were paying an arm and a leg for 30min or rugby. Rugby is a better game after that decision. PS we also tracked PK being taken 5-10m ahead of the mark. Which still happens today.

[@harsimarmanj]

Is your manager Andre Watson ?

[@GeorgeWS]

100% agree with ref, enough bloody time wasting! Get on with it!

[@JohnJohn-cu7nk]

The rule is, Play to the ref. The reason England team was so good under Clive Woodward was the players were told to adapt to the ref in each game.The ref tells you to do something you do it,End of.

[@fiachraswaz]

I have seen numerous freekicks for delayed throws into the lineout, that was no different. Raynal was justified in his call, even the aussie centre was shouting at foley to kick it

[@nigelhart3897]

Foley took it on himself to blatantly waste time. That is an illegal act and if pro players don't know the laws then something is seriously wrong. What was worse was that even after the ref called a time out to warn him, he still adopted a "no one tells me what to do, and I'll kick it when I'm ready" approach. In rugby union if the ref tells you to jump, you jump. Obviously Foley decided he was running the game. Spectators also dont pay good money to watch a guy holding on to the ball in the dying seconds of an exciting game. It is the classic win at all costs mentality, and stuff the watching public. Hopefully time wasting will be penalised more from now on. The ref was spot on.

[@frogsoup2241]

Thanks for the intelligent impartial comments about what we want from the game of rugby. As a lover of rugby in general the Referees over use of the whistle and these pedantic inconsistent decisions by them are killing the game. The game of Rugby needs to flow a lot more like it used to....too much unnecessary stopping of the game from the ref is time wasting itself and will kill the game. Why couldn't the ref just stop the clock again or add on some extra time at the end to make up for lost time.

[@ManofMunster]

JK is spot on. Bring in the play clock. And when a ref says play, you play - especially when it’s a French one 😂

[@joshwaihi]

An enforced shot clock on all kicks is a good start. Don't need to make changes to line outs and scrums because Foley can't obey a ref. We need ways to encourage teams to play in the spirit of the game and not waste time or milk penalties and cards. Counter to JKs view, that shouldn't been viewed as "professional" to do so.

[@stevenkingsley7781]

How can they say it isn’t Foleys fault? After a direct instruction from the ref it’s totally on Foley

[@ivanvovanonselen487]

Three weeks ago Smith embarrassed the ref by milking a yellow card. This Frenchman was alert and was not going to be accused of allowing cheating. Live by the sword and die by the sword.

[@samcama]

Im an Ausy fan but time wasting is getting pathetic. Finally their's a ref who did something about it.

[@henkstols9326]

Big moment in the game and the ref begged Foley to play as he was obviously wasting time. Call was correct and the AB had to still play to win the game, unfortunately the game has winners and losers and the Wallabies didnt vome out on top. World rugby needs to start getting their refs on the same page also, at the moment they are all over the place and making poor decisions even with the tmo.

[@JKMeZmA]

Think it comes into the chat around professional and sportsmanship rules like the new era of gamesmanship like the exaggerated reactions to hits, or laying down or yelling at things more. Make it like Ice Hockey where they have rules for this that are very clear, and not up for interpretation. Big ol list of what is acceptable and what isn’t, with very clear rules and lines of when it becomes unsportsmanlike conduct.

[@trevorhutchinsonUK2506]

The kicker disobeyed the ref.. he's teammates can be seen telling him to get on with it! It will haunt him! only he knows what he was thinking.

[@wolfgangvonuce9615]

Thats why I've always watched rugby on stan an hour later so I can watch from start and fast forward all the stoppages🤣they need to make changes to time wasting so I NEVER have to wait and hour after kick off and watch live!! CMON IRB PULL YOUR FINGER OUT AND DO SOMETHING😫

[@brianoliver5640]

At the end of the day they were still in front after that decision, it was their defence on the line that let them down. So Australia get over it 😤

[@michaelosgood9876]

The ref was telling them! The idiots didn't listen, so the ref did the only thing he could do, he blew the whistle. The ABs were good enough to capitalize. If they didn't, no one would be discussing this

[@Truthshallsety0ufree]

I'm surprised that Kiwi's are so balanced after seeing their biased fans crow about this decision. This is a great analysis. Balanced and fair.

[@russellturner1909]

Who's fans aren't biased ?

[@joedennehy386]

What biased fans you talking about.? As a kiwi it was hard luck for Australia it was a call I believe was correct. The game generally has far too much time wasting. In the first test v NZ south Africa every ten minutes a bokke prop went down to give them a breather. England does the same if it can. In the 2nd test they couldn't get away with it, and ran out of puff, letting in 2 tries in the final ten minutes. Bring on a faster game for mine

[@timgregory82]

Wow commentor so righteous he / she makes username The Truth.

[@Truthshallsety0ufree]

@@joedennehy386 Of course you believe it was correct. You're a kiwi FFS

[@Silvercox]

I’m a Brit, it was a good call

[@KrnSMLS]

This man (Sir JK) just said he used to take hamstring injuries to wind the clock down because he’s a professional sportsman that wants to win…..

[@ZiggyFroidable]

Totally agree with Kirwan, go with the time clock, take it out of the ref's and the players hands. The average American football game lasts 3 hours and there is 12 minutes when the ball is in play...do we want this for rugby?

[@StingrayMk1]

10 wasted time. 10 ignored the ref. 10 took the piss and paid the price. But they still had the lead. There was an opportunity to defend well and win. But they let a try through. Tough luck boys.

[@lukewest9179]

I was once rugby mad. I am a SA supporter and remeber the days of super 10, I rarely missed a game. I used to go to the local pub at 4am to watch the games played in NZ. Now I don't go out of my way to even watch SA test matches. Maybe it's because there is too much rugby available to watch. I can switch on my TV at any time and watch rugby. Maybe it's because it's become a bit of a farce. I don't think the ref made a wrong decision here but the problem is consistency.

[@richardwhite2304]

Right decision at the wrong time. Imagine a scrum at 80 minutes and the ref decides this is the one time in five years to penalise a crooked feed .

[@michaelbaxter7452]

soo right

[@supershooter20]

Can't compare a penalty kick (to touch) to a scrum, because the latter involves both sides and 18 persons including the scrum halves!

[@richardwhite2304]

@@supershooter20 point being there are many laws that refs rarely enforce

[@michaelbaxter7452]

@@supershooter20 why does the number of players make any difference whatsoever ??? The scrum half disobeys the law , so the French ref with his fat pocket can wait till the end of the game last scrum and choose to enforce it and provide their beloved New Zealand with one last chance to win . It is disgraceful to blow that whistle for time wasting at that moment in that game

[@supershooter20]

@@michaelbaxter7452 : Have you ever played rugby? The scrum half can only put in the ball when the scrum is properly set and that requires both teams!

[@Sam-lk6eo]

THINGS TO CONSIDER, WHY HE MAY HAVE MADE THAT CALL ? 1, HE SAW IT AS DELIBERATE ! 2, HE FELT HE HAD GIVEN ENOUGH WARNINGS. 3, HE FELT FOLEY WAS IGNORING HIM WHEN HE KEPT TURNING AWAY TO LOOK AT HIS TEAM MATES. 4, THE SCORES WERE CLOSE. 5, THE TIME WAS COUNTING DOWN TO THE END OF THE GAME. 6, KNOWING IT'S A HIGH STAKES GAME. 7, THE HYPE AND ANTICiPATION FROM THE CROWD, THE ATMOSPHERE WAS ELECTRIC ! 8, MAYBE HE THOUGHT NO ! THERES TIME !!!, TO WHEN THE WALLABIES WERE ALREADY CELEBRATING EARLY. 9, MAYBE THAT MADE HIM FEEL A WEE BIT ANGRY LIKE THAT'S THE LAST STRAW !!! WHEN THE WALLABIES ALL IGNORED HIM ! 10, KNOWING THAT PEOPLE WANT TO SEE A FAIR CONTEST, FOR THE FULL 80 MINUTES. 11, MAYBE HE HAD ALREADY EXPERIENCED THE TIME WASTED, WHEN 2 WALLABIES WERE IN THE BIN, (WITH THE TWO SLOW SHOTS AT GOAL) AND IT DEFINITELY WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN ? 12, MAYBE HE FELT HE HAD ALREADY GIVEN THE WALLABIES A BREAK, BY NOT CALLING A FORWARD PASS RESULTING IN A TRY, AND NOW FELT OBLIGATED TO MAKE IT FAIR FOR THE AB'S ! 13, PRESSURE TO MAKE IT FAIR FOR BOTH TEAMS. 14, KNOWING THAT MAKING IT A SCRUM GIVES THE AB's A SLIM CHANCE TO PLAY BALL AND IS A SUITABLE PUNISHMENT FOR THE WALLABIES TO ENDURE ? 15, SEEING HIS TEAM MATE SHOUT OUT TO HURRY ! BUT HE DIDN'T. 16. THE 90 SECOND RULING IS A WASH ALSO, ESPECIALLY IN THIS INSTANCE WHEN TIME BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT FOR BOTH TEAMS. THE LAST 3 MINUTES OF ANY GAME IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME, IT'S LIKE THE LAST ROUND IN THE UFC OR BOXING AND ONE SHOULD EXPECT A HIGHER LEVEL OF MONITORING AND JUDGEMENT AS THE GAME PROGRESS'S TO THE END, WHICH I THINK HE DID QUITE WELL. I THINK A SCRUM IS APPROPRIATE, THE PERFECT PUNISHMENT FOR AN INFRINGEMENT LIKE THIS. WITH HAVING NUMEROUS POSSIBILITIES 1 TO 14 COMING INTO PLAY IT STARTS TO MAKE SENCE BERING IN MIND THE SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, TO SAY THE LEAST. A SCRUM IS BRILLIANT ! THERE ARE MANY REASONS ABOVE THAT IMPACT THIS GAME, THAT COULD SUGGEST A CALL OF THAT NATURE BEING USED, THE RULE IS IN THE RULE BOOK AND HIS DEEP KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE GAME / RULE BOOK WAS ON DISPLAY, WAS IT WRONG NO ! ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE SAD YES, ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE HAPPY YES. SORRY THATS LIFE IN GENERAL AND IT ALSO APPLIES TO SPORTS. IN HIS EYES "AS REFEREE" HE OBVIOUSLY FELT AUTHORISED TO USE THAT RULING RIGHT THERE AND THEN, AND REMINDED THE PLAYER OF THAT. IT'S WHAT HE GETS PAID FOR, AND PEOPLE SHOULDN'T COMPLAIN. YOU DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS ALREADY IRRITATED BY ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES OR JESTURES WITHIN THE GAME, THAT CALL IS HIS AND HIS ALONE WITH CONCIDERATION OF THE TOUCH JUDGES AND TMO IN OTHER INSTANCES. LOOKING BACK, HE WAS RIGHT ! SOME PEOPLE CLASS THAT CALL AS BEING RIDICULOUS AND LIKE TO SUGGEST THEY GOT ROBBED, BUT OTHERS DON'T ? AND THINK IT'S FAIR ? I'M OF THE LATER ! WHEN YOU HEAR CRITICS USE TERMS LIKE, FOLEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HIM EVEN THOUGH HIS TEAM MATE WAS TRYING TO HURRY HIM UP HIS COMMUNICATION WAS GOOD THROUGHT THE GAME BUT NOT THE END (SOME CLAIM), BUT HEARING THE REF SOUND OFF AND SAY YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WERE DOING,7 SAYS IT ALL ! EVERYBODY ELSE UNDERSTOOD FOR THE ENTIRE GAME AND TO HEAR SOME SAY THE REF WAS A BAD COMMUNICATOR DOESN'T WASH, AS THERE WASN'T ANY CONFUSION ABOUT CALLS PRIOR. WITH COLES JUMPING AT THAT BALL QUICK SMART HE OBVIOUSLY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING DOWN AND SO DID EVERYBODY ELSE. TO SUGGEST THAT THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT CALL BEING USED BEFORE, SO WHAT, NOW YOU HAVE ! DECISIONS GET MADE THRU-OUT GAMES AND AT DIFFERENT TIMES WITHIN THE GAME, DO WE ARGUE THE FACT OF THE FORWARD PASS NOW AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT BEING A MAJOR DECIDING FACTOR ALSO , NO WE SHOULDN'T BECAUSE IT'S SPORTS AND A LINE SHOULD BE DRAWN BECAUSE IT'S A RECREATIONAL EVENT, THAT SHOULD BE ENJOYABLE AND NOT TARNISHED BY HARSH CRITICS. 16, A SCRUM MAKES BOTH TEAMS WORK FOR IT AND FORCES BOTH TEAMS TO TAKE IT TO THE WIRE. 17, IT WASN'T AS IF IT WAS A PENALTY TRY OR ACTUAL POINTS GIVEN AFFECTING THE SCORE. 18, THEY BOTH HAD TO EARN IT, IN MAKING IT A TRUE CONTEST, THATS WHAT PEOPLE PAY TO SEE AND EXPECT, A FAIR CONTEST ! 19, WHY SHOULD ANY TEAM BE DEPRIVED OF A POSSIBLE WIN OR DRAW, WHILE TRAILING IN POINTS, BECAUSE OF THE DELIBERATE ACTIONS OR AN ATTEMPT TO RUN DOWN THE TIME, (BY THE LEADING TEAM). I'M GLAD HE STEPPED IN AND CALLED A SCRUM, IF THEY WERE A BETTER TEAM, THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT THEM OUT. 20, HE'S NOT THE ONLY REF TO MAKE A CONTROVERCIAL CALL RESULTING IN THE FINAL RESULT. 21, NOTE : IT'S ONLY CONTROVERCIAL IF YOU COMPLAIN. 22, IT'S IN THE RULE BOOK. AND SHOULDN'T BE CHANGED. 23, WHERE WAS THE TMO ON THE FORWARD PASS RESULTING IN A TRY ? WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE IF YOU WIND BACK TIME, THEN SHOULD WE WIND IT BACK TO THERE AND TO THE SWAIN TACKLE, SHOULD THAT HAVE BEEN A RED CARD AND ALSO BE FACTORED IN AS A PIVETAL POINT. THAT AFFECTS THE DYNAMICS TREMENDOUSLY AND HIGH JUDMENT CALLS AREN'T ALWAYS OBSERVED CORRECTLY AT THE TIME. CAN WE WORK ON IT, YES ? SHOULD WE CHANGE HIS DECISION, NO ! TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE RULE BOOK BUT DON'T DROP THIS RULE, KEEP IT IN PLACE. IT FITS A SPECIFIC PURPOSE AND WAS AVAILABLE UNDER A UNIQUE SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. LET ME REPHRASE THAT ! UNDER A UNIQUE SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES IN CAN BE USED AND IT SHOULD BE USED. BUT IT LIES WITH THE REFEREE AND OTHER MATCH OFFICIALS, MAYBE INTRODUCE FOOTAGE AND SOUND WITH A BETTER ARIAL VIEW TYPE SYSTEM TO CAPTURE THOSE FORWARD PASSES ETC. 24, THE CROWD SAW IT, AND SOUNDED OFF AND NZ COMMENTATOR NOTED IT AS A POSSIBLE FORWARD PASS, BUT NOTHING WAS DONE BY THE REF MMM ? 25, IT SWINGS IN ROUNDABOUTS BUT HIS DECISION COULD HAVE BEEN BASED ON A NUMBER OF FACTORS THROUGHOUT THE GAME NOT JUST ONE PARTICULAR THING. 26, AS INFANTS YOUR TAUGHT TO PLAY TO THE WHISTLE. 27, ALSO TO RESPECT THE REF AT ALL TIMES. 28, TAKE THE REFS DECISION AS FINAL ! 29, PLAY HARD FOR THE FULL 80, PLUS INTO INJURY TIME UP UNTIL HE SIGNALS THE FINAL WHISTLE. BE RESPECTFUL TO THE OPPOSITION AND VISITORS AND THANK THEM. THANK THE COACH AND FANS, AND SPECTATORS. SHOW GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP ! BUT OVERALL THE STATS FOR BOTH TEAMS WERE SIMILAR : AMOUNT OF PENALTIES AWARDED, SHOTS AT GOAL, YELLOW CARDS, NUMBER OF BINNED PLAYERS, TRIES AWARDED, TRIES DIS-ALLOWED ETC, ETC... I THOUGHT THE REF WAS A GOOD REF, FOR NORTHERN HEMISPHERE STANDARDS, THEY NORMALLY LOVE THE WHISTLE AND TYPICALLY SLOW THE GAME DOWN. WITH SCRUMS AND PENALTIES IF YOU DON'T PLAY THERE STYLE OF RUGBY. AND THEY LOVE TO DISH OUT THOSE YELLOW AND RED CARDS. YEH NAH, AWESOME GAME BOTH TEAMS DID WELL ! THANKS FOR READING THAT TO THE END, LOL THE OPINIONATED MOTHERLOAD

[@mangatitiful]

Well done - all good points. They were cheating and at that moment the cheat was enormous and deserved an enormous decision.

[@padriachooper91]

In his discussion with Nic White, it sounded like Raynar was trying to make a point. I don't think it was the right time to be teaching a lesson.

[@robinwilson730]

Whether it is rugby or cricket the Aussies have always used gamesmanship or sledging to try and gain an unfair advantage. The rules should stay as they are and if players want to avoid controversy they should obey the laws and respect the job the referee by playing the game in the right spirit.

[@jonmason1622]

Always baffled when the southern hemisphere teams are surprised when a referee gives a clear direction -“we play”-4 times,is ignored and then blows the whistle.I’ve seen numerous occasions when scrumhalves and hookers have been free-kicked for taking too long.It’s about time time-wasting over kicks was penalised.And the laws should be applied equally over the 80 minutes

[@supervalour8620]

nahhhh the ref was right for making that call. it was not sportsmanship and they were warned.

[@jasonstewart194]

Jesus our pundits are pushovers. You can get as existential as you want - "It's a bigger issue than just this", "I've never seen it called", "What does world rugby want it's game to be in 12 months", I mean it's really as simple as this - the referee comes over and tells him to take the kick, then stops the clock and tells him again to take it or he's going to reverse it and then Foley, like a small child trying to test his parents patience, decides to f--k around for another 3-4 seconds even having a teammate yell at him to kick the friggin ball into touch because he's smart enough to realize what's happening. I don't get how you defend Foley here at any level. If he's mincing around and the ref hits him cold with the penalty, then everything Kirwan, MM and Wilson allude to applies. But the reason you don't see this ever happen is because most players are smart enough to realize that when they are right in front of their posts and get told to stop time wasting or else the penalty will be reversed (under a stopped clock!), as soon as that clock gets restarted that kick happens quicker than a hiccup.

[@thewelshfriend8198]

As an argument around time wasting surely if you decide to kick from touch you call time off, let them breathe or whatever, then call time on and give them 20 seconds to kick it, I don’t know how it would work in practice but seems fairly logical to me?

[@raimaareke3152]

It wasn’t the ref’s decision that won the game for the All Blacks…It was the try that was made after the call was made…HeLLo…Doh

[@flasktalimasa5586]

He’s sir! John Kirwin for no reason 😂 well said sir🫡

[@Benboy1980]

He was told multiple times to kick and he didn’t. Bang, penalty

[@robvanderkroft6515]

Australia has dicked around and wasted so much time this year it's not funny about time someone made an example of them. Anyone blaming the ref clearly needs a head check . The only person at fault is the guy who had the ball his own team was telling him to kick

[@tuluvota]

Sir JK on point as always

[@gs8494]

Not really, in the moment after the game was stopped and Foley was warned for time wasting, and was also clearly told by Raynal to kick the ball immediately on restart, how he has handled time wasting in the match has no bearing, when your instructions are that clear and unambiguous the rest of the game doesn't matter, in that moment there was no room for interpretation, what the ref expected of Foley was crystal clear, Foley blew it and he is to blame, not the ref.

[@canadiancontent352]

Wilson saying it may have been the wrong time to make this call is everything that’s wrong about rugby reffing. The rules should enforced no matter what point of the game, no matter the situation, especially if you are gaining an advantage by breaking it. Now if a goal kicker runs the length of the field and scores in the corner to tie a game at full time, I’d give him a bit of extra time to take the conversion. But I would not give someone in foleys situation any leaway. He’s

[@scottreiri9800]

Time wasting occurs during a lot of general game play, however 2 min from full time that is an issue. There is a deliberate decision by Bernard F too run the clock down. All he had to do was kick the ball, period

[@aaronleverton4221]

As an Australian I think it would have been much easier to swallow if the ref hadn't blown his whistle *after* Foley began and *was seen to begin* taking his kick. It would be like DQing a long jumper after he takes the first two steps of his run-up.

[@BaneLoki]

Stop the bloody clock. Shot clock is a great solution. Makes it transparent

[@gordonwong9366]

Two points: firstly would Foley take that long if we (Wallabies) were 3 points behind? secondly, Foley should trust his pack to win and secure the line out and then rolled the clock down. Foley's action was telling in this regard.

[@dreday77764]

he certainly didnt waste time converting that forward pass but oh no......media wont show that part lol

[@gordonwong9366]

The commentators on Stan did point out Foley converted quickly. Subsequent to this saga, media on this side of the ditch replayed a heated exchange between White and the Ref. White was heard accusing the ref costing the Wallabies the championship!!!?? Hang on, at that time we were leading. A lack of self believe was on show and painful to watch, for us.

[@stundardutch5320]

nothing controversial about it. 100% right call

[@rixonsheppard1247]

If we want to go there. Wallabies should have never have been in the game at the end. The ref allowing a try for AUS from a forward pass by Foley to his FB should be talked about

[@rongt859]

How do the AFL do it , they have times set for taking kicks

[@mornedupreez8203]

The ref decision was right. You can not take 39 seconds to kick the ball out. You must give the other team also a chance to try and win the game at the death. As a Springbok supporter I don't favor the All Blacks but the Aussies like to use this tactic of slowing down games. Karma Ausies. Karma

[@llewellynlamb9545]

Imagine listening to these Muppets if this decision went against the Kiwis.

[@tamahoukamau3664]

He was penalized for ignoring the ref

[@maxit933]

Was the ref right? Kiwi Yes Oz No 😂..good one Kirwan. At the end of the day the ref controls the game.

[@mosesetute1411]

Totally agree with Sir JK.

[@safeman1231]

Not having a shot at the AB'S but they exceeded the kick at goal at least twice and nothing done.

[@leoncoetzer]

I'm not an Ozzy, this Saffa says bullshit, oh yes the Ref was within the rules, but it was not in the spirit of the game, Foley was blown in momentum about to kick, and this extremely decisive and divisive call was sooo wrong.

[@JuanPablo-vw7ko]

Yes, but that momentum was exactly 54 seconds after the ref asked him to play on.....

[@seanrota3359]

Meneer, wasting time is not in the spirit of the game. As an AB fan if this had been the ABs who were wasting time and got pinged I would be saying the same thing. Have a good look at the time line with the ref communicating clear instructions to the Wallabies. The Ref called it correctly he did what he could to get Foley to play the ball, even his own outside backs tried to get him to kick it......can't blame the Ref.

[@dickfister5081]

JK is spot on, I reckon. Too big a decision for a ref to take alone.

[@wildebeest88]

Aussie players were advised to play. Ref correctly stopped the clock and communicate to the Aussies not to stall the game. Foley foolishly ignored the warning and continued to stall the game. Even his own team mates were screaming at him to kick the ball. Ref not at fault here.

[@mangatitiful]

I was in NZ Under 23 cricket team - 1959. We won all our games in Aus for the month and the final game in Sydney the big one. They cancelled it because the manager said they could not find enough billets for us in Sydney. That is absolutely true. If I may respectfully say, still thugs! :)

[@CH-yp5by]

Right call legally yes, never done before yes, good idea to enforce it the first time, hell no! All focus has been on the ref's decision not the game itself which is very bad for the game as a whole. He was also prevented Foley from kicking the ball when Foley was in the midfle of his run up to kick the ball so it was unnecessarely pedantic and blowing for a penalty again slowed the game down so technically it was ironically counterproductive.

[@struesbob7493]

I do not think it was done in the spirit of the game.

[@marcusd9192]

Neither was Foley running down the clock

[@hanlens_on_hiatus]

Controversial, try the end of the last lions tour to NZ. At least this ref applied a law that exists not made one up that isn't in the rule book.

[@wobblertv8083]

Top game ....some handling from both teams .World cup wide open .

[@sherrifrua]

the thing is, its test rugby not super. there has to be some definitive differences. bcoz it is rare to see common law lived out to the letter of the law in test rugby.

[@jule1934]

Laura fulfilling her stereotype straight off the bat

[@savvynz]

Love JKs idea of a play clock, take it out of the refs hands. I'd also like to see all water boys and water breaks stopped in favour of each team having a 1min time-out (called by the coach) they can use per half when play is stopped.

[@brucetaylor8848]

I was watching it live, and my brain was going that aussie's milking this too much, milk it to the end, or try, kick it out if he can bluff it at 80 minutes....ultimate cheat

[@manfredadams303]

Everyone talking about the last minute, what about decisions during game, Foley forward pass

[@d.j.z.j]

This why twiggyfirrest rugby format do good