New Zealand rugby pundits react to shock loss to Argentina | The Breakdown

[@Argenswiss]

Saying that Argentina didn't play as an excuse is such a shallow and mistaken analysis. Argentina are more than capable of playing beautiful high paced rugby, but why would you do that against new Zealand? That's suicide, this isn't super rugby we aren't going to just play to your strengths, we will play to your weaknesses. If the Pumas identified how to negate your attack, Choke your options and generate mistakes to capitalise on, and you couldn't find a solution then it's on you and it is also about Argentina being smart and playing brilliantly

[@emilianoabal1257]

exactly..

[@haroldchong6861]

Agreed to the fullest

[@ricardoezequielneira1795]

As an Argentinian, thank you Tomas, I always remember that one of the greatest virtues of the All Blacks and the Kiwis in general is humility, your words follow that tradition, keep it that way

[@moseseyacalevu3027]

Definitely agree with you. We are in a different era of Rugby. Win at all costs. Argentina played to their strengths. A wonderful game of footy indeed.

[@lunny2230]

Nailed it. Everyone has now figured out that a smother rush defense and keep it simple high percentage territory rugby will be good enough to give a real chance of beating the ABs. In years gone by NZ could wether that pressure for 50-60 minutes and then tear the opposition apart in the last quarter through superior fitness and skills. Now the game is so slow with stoppages, TMO nonsense etc that fitness is no an advantage anymore and the team is finding they are chasing the game and panicking in the last quarter rather than just making good decisions and showing patience to rumble 10-15 phases to score.

[@georginiuss]

I am from argentina, I watch rugby since I was a kid, I play it only for one season and I am a puma´s fan of course. I grew up watching games against AB´s and I never forgot this statement: you have to have discipline against AB because if you don´t, they will make you pay that with points: Well this time, AB´s did not got discipline, and Argentina make them pay. That´s all !!

[@robbiegarscadden2311]

Well said Jorge. The best team one. THe Abs didnt show up to compete in the second half. Pumas demand our respect. Im looking forward to tonights game. Good luck Pumas.

[@georginiuss]

​@@robbiegarscadden2311 I always enjoy facing rugby best teams. Sometimes we win, but no matter what, we always learn.

[@timpawlett2565]

From a neutral background, the Argentina win makes world rugby more exciting as anyone is capable of beating anyone. Argentina will punish you if your discipline is poor, the proof was in the weekend's game. This will be a time to see the All Blacks show some real courage and effort to get back to No 1. South Africa, Australia and Argentina will not make that an easy task. In the northern hemisphere Ireland have already shown the way. France and England will be seeing an opportunity.

[@00Aroha]

🥱🥱

[@351clevelandmodifiedmotor4]

This is the age of professional sports, and professional sports are ripe with sports fixing , money talks B's walks, call me crazy but we were warned, warned by the experts on a Saturday radio interview on talk back zb a few years back that we will notice sports fixing creeping into our sports, since then all blacks drew a British lions tour, lost to Ireland twice lost to England lost to Argentina twice lost to south Africa , next we will lose to Wales and Scotland then Japan will beat us

[@V.M.pescasur]

@@351clevelandmodifiedmotor4 en argentina el rugby es amateur amigo, todos los pumas tienen su trabajo aparte de jugar al rugby

[@ballinlough12345]

@@351clevelandmodifiedmotor4 ya it's all match fixing . Nothing to do with the all black forwards being fucking dog shit. One member of the all black pack would have a hope of getting in the Irish side. And even then its only a chance. All the best players play in europe and the all blacks been left behind . They will never be number 1 again

[@tomasorozco7678]

@@V.M.pescasur los Pumas no si todos juegan en clubes de Europa jaja

[@TheGadfly85]

Jeff Wilson is absolutely nuts...lol. He is praising the AllBlacks' ability to score tries, most of the time capitalizing on the opposition's mistakes, while playing poorly for large parts of the game, but when some other team does the same he somehow seems salty about it

[@drisszyani3497]

The 2 clowns ( Muliaina and Wilson)wanted to see the worst coach in the history continue..

[@kylelouer4323]

He’s out to lunch dude. Jk put him in his place in the first 3 mins of the show

[@gms77777]

Dont rate Wilson as a pundit. Just my humble opinion

[@kevinwillis6707]

wilson is always like this, surprised he hasnt slagged off the ref

[@dsartain3404]

You’re right, I think Jeff was a fantastic player and could offer some constructive Criticism but you’re right, he’s a bit salty.

[@rocksoliddude1]

It's not a shock win, it was a great win. Argentina are a competitive team in the Rugby Championship now and capable of beating anyone. These dull pundits have nothing positive to say about the Pumas, it's all "NZ should have played better". Horrendous arrogance.

[@zabaleta66]

Yeah, I disliked the title too.

[@estudiog_ggoldstein3202]

right

[@PabloKeilis]

They have been the best team for so long that is totally understandable that they have the feeling of being better than everybody else. It's going to take many more bad results in order for them to finally give up this feeling of superiority, and accept the fact that there are other countries with a similar level of skills and knowledge, and also with a great winning mentality.

[@aidanloveridge1721]

Argentina scored alot of points on Pens and Cody Taylor butchered two lineouts 5 meters out from the goal line with a couple minutes to go. Argentinas defence in the second half was amazing and they played really well. We still fucked up a ton and need to do better.

[@treeox]

Argentina played well and deserved to win, but there is no way the All Blacks are playing to their ability, and haven't for a while under Foster's coaching and Cane's Captaincy. Do you even know who these commentators are? Kirwan 63 tests for NZ, Mills 100 tests for NZ, Wilson 60 tests for NZ- Did you think this NZ programme was going to analyse the Pumas? LOL.

[@kevinpillay6103]

Wilson is a real salty character. Winning is not about always banging away at an opponents try line and scoring tries . And no credit to Pumas. The coaching staff made huge errors in their changes that were made. ABs overall are now easy to play against as they can't handle any pressure in-game. Expect furher record losses to teams they never lose too.

[@dylerturden8018]

Hes fucking clueless, always has been, starting to border on delusional. I'm glad Kirwins dragging him back from planet mars

[@MusMasi]

@@holyliable5829 At least JK will admit he was a bad coach, and I am also tired of this bleating online at anyone who is critical of Foster as bring a sore loser and other teams have to go through it, and you know what? Other tier one teams and media are Critical of their coaches when they have losing streaks as well. Now personal attacks and death threats are not on, but there is nothing wrong with being critical of people who do not live up to expectations in high profile jobs, the world is getting too thin skinned, its a not a right to coach an international team.

[@joedennehy386]

Goldie is so far up the NZRFUs backside he can hardly breathe

[@pauljones8801]

@@MusMasi You can't keep blaming the coach, MAN UP, that's the easy out, the buck has to stop at the players at some point or ruther. Put some new blood up there who will be chewing at the bit to prove themselves, what have they got to loose, Too many comfortable players with big heads sitting pretty, lets have some change in the positions first and see how that goes, plus that will also fire up the players who have got to comfortable, THEN look at the coach, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

[@cmwenda92]

Jeff Wilson way way off the mark. Argentina won that game on merit. Hopefully one day, when the emotion is less raw, he'll look at the game objectively. Argentina started taking that game back with defensive pressure and winning back the 3 points. NZ failed to win moments, moments which the Pumas forward pack won. It got to the team, they lost composure, lost crucial set pieces and ultimately the game. The current team can't handle pressure, teams know this.

[@jakesjacobs1737]

My advice...get used to NZers complaining ABs were bad when they lose in stead of saying the opp was good. Coaches complaining abt the rules when opp stifle AB tactics.Extremely entitled. Best thing for world rugby and for NZers is if ABs lose another 3 this year and lose 7 games every year for the next 20 years. They are just human, like the rest of the teams

[@mark-ish]

​@@jakesjacobs1737 ouch, you're a bitter person.

[@sundaze7089]

@@jakesjacobs1737 Pumas were awesome ! . I reckon they will win on sat or come real close.They have discipline and belief , and they know they can suffocate us , and the ABs will panic again like the last 3 friggin years , go willy nilly , drop the pill and give away penalties.And then Jeff Wilson will say the Abs controlled the game .....lol

[@daggylmcgra9653]

I thought Mils' was on the mark with his comments about the lack of the ABs being able to think laterally and try new things when the game plan is not working. Kiwi's need to understand that the glory days of the ABs winning every game are over. The quality of world rugby has improved dramatically and the game has and still is changing. Get used to it, or play better/smarter.

[@ExtremelyBadPlayer]

ya lol did he watch the same game as me? ABs were definitely poor but Argentina were also amazing!

[@kylelouer4323]

Love JK calling out Goldie. Goldie has got this weird idea in his head that the AB’s are okay. They’re not. JK is right,; shut up Goldie the AB’s were never dominating the game

[@jonnyd.2047]

Goldie is mates with Foster etc. He can't be objective about the coaching, and blames the players alone.

[@jukeseyable]

Feel sorry for you kiwis we have Gareth Thomas as our resident hyperactive nut job you have Wilson

[@donbrashsux]

Goldie would be right at home on the NZRU board

[@daggylmcgra9653]

@@donbrashsux ;. He'll never get there now. Not after having a media role + showing the world his shortcomings.

[@gysdewet6060]

They are taking away from the fact that Argentina played amazing Rugby. Definitely the best team in the tournament so far. South Africa is in the same boat. We play one good game loose the next no consistency. Also no game plan playing the wrong players

[@shiozza]

Jeff Wilson was JK wasn't though he wasn't having any of it giving them full credit

[@bertgoat]

they played very little rugby, just waited for fosters imposters to implode

[@justinm5972]

As a massive positive, what a great series of rugby we have had and incredible games. Good standards from all teams and its bringing fans back to rugby here in Aus. Full stadium next weekend in Sydney hasnt been done in a long time! NZ will be back!

[@jonas416si]

Games and tournaments without a certain outcome. Nothing can be more healthier for the sport than that!

[@leswilton4234]

Absolutely agree. I am a passionate Springbok supporter. But, I will say that Australia were the better team last Saturday. The Springboks were terrible. New Zealanders seem to be slating their team. Has it ever dawned upon them that other teams have vastly improved. That means Rugby is now much more competitive - which is a very good thing. The All Black will have to get accustomed to losing some matches. I still maintain that the All Black are an excellent team. Don't always blame the coach or the ref when your team loses. Teams now have to earn their wins, not just pitch up to play the game.

[@andyhunter5869]

@@leswilton4234 New Zealanders are bad losers because for over a century they haven’t really lost all that much. Fans don’t understand the bigger picture, they’re only interested in right here right now domination in every game. I agree, it’s better for the sport that teams are competitive and games aren’t decided before kickoff, but the isolated and insignificant kiwi fans can’t see that as a positive. Go the wallabies and go the argies, love from a kiwi 🥝

[@justinm5972]

@@leswilton4234 My partner and her family are all from JoBerg so I was pretty happy with that aussie win lol! Yep a great series I like the format think they have got it right. Loving it!

[@dsartain3404]

Fantastic!

[@Mojo-IRE]

Wilson says they played no rugby as an excuse. You play to your strengths. How could you honestly fault Argentina?

[@StaalBurgher0]

Very easily as has been proven by many media outlets over many years 🤣

[@mark-ish]

​@@StaalBurgher0 so easily you fail to even try.

[@Gilescowdemdem]

My favourite part about criticising the Argentina try as being from kick off is that the ABs try was from a maul and from an error in the line out from Argentina...not exactly formidable attack from the ABs either.

[@Trajan2401]

Not often the side that scores more tries loses Argentina can thank the useless blow the whistle all day Georgian ref.

[@johnmc3862]

@@Trajan2401 Still hanging that head in shame lol.

[@dkstewy]

@@Trajan2401 Don Clarke??

[@Trajan2401]

@@dkstewy ,bad comparison the ABs still scored more tries than the opposition when he was playing most of the time

[@jonas416si]

@@Trajan2401 Not used to ABs not being free to go with anything but murder on field huh? Fans of the team of McCheat complaining about refs. That is a new.

[@thoughtfulprofessor4198]

Is Wilson mad? JK was absolutely spot on.

[@jono4000]

Argentina won without playing rugby according to Jeff... smh. The truth is this AB's squad can't handle pressure. JK hit it right on the head. There's a massive difference between process and preparation.

[@floydkingi4364]

You could argue NZ are losing because they don't play rugby, Scrums, Physicality at the breakdown, mauling and solid defence are a big part of Rugby

[@theruckinmaul1460]

Well I think that is even worst fact for the ABs, when the opposition can win against you with you playing good and they playing badly is never a sign of a great team. Back in the Robbie Deans Wallabies era, the Wallabies always play good footy but always lost to NZ eventhough they boasted all the stats, possession, territory, 22 entry, the fact that they can't defend on their own 22 and always gave the opposition kickable penalties are what cost them the win. A bad win is always better than a good lost.

[@rianovolmink9621]

@@floydkingi4364 to be honest the scrums and linouts has improved .. What i have a problem with is .. When was the last time u have seen us having 10+ phases in a game more then 3 times ?

[@vernonviz]

Argentina were brilliant, getting pissed off with the AB's were shit routine, give Argentina their credit. After all isn't this what was wanted, a decent competition. The end of the day the sun sets. Go Los Pumas

[@Edgycoo]

give it up made you dont need to harp on about the other teams. Merely a few years back we were the brilliant ones and everyone is rightly pissed off that the entire abs legacy is getting ruined game after average game. No one is suggesting the other teams are playing badly, it is simply we cannot change how other teams play so we expect to elevate our own play. We are rightly focussing on ourselves. It does not detract from the other teams. We just are getting a little sick of the abs effort. It is possible in a game to have two teams play well and at present we arent seeing our team do that.

[@emilianoabal1257]

exactly

[@MusMasi]

@@Edgycoo I am sure if the Argentina's win loss record was 25% and they where critical of their coaches New Zealanders would not be on their case, but it seems no matter what you do, win or lose everyone hates on the NZ supporters. And of course every other teams supporters are going to defend Foster as he is one of the best things to ever happen to them

[@Edgycoo]

@@MusMasi agreed

[@MusMasi]

@@Edgycoo Honestly I use to feel sorry for South Africa because they have had some bad coaches over the years, yes its nice to beat them but it might be arrogant but I would prefer to beat them at their best.

[@expat74]

Thing about Argentina is they can play attacking rugby too. Ball in hand they can be slick but were to inconsistent. We (ABs)suck at the moment but happy to see the Pumas get up and really hope they become a powerhouse.

[@tayikolla6205]

For the first time we had a fair referee. AB never needed them though but against other teams the referee was the main obstacle for Argentina

[@paulrutherford5087]

Argentina are no slouches won a series against Scotland and Australia. Against Australia they were on fire and they rained tried.

[@GabrielFossaRobecchi]

@@tayikolla6205 It's true what you say, the main adversary of the Pumas, are the British referees. They always tilt the court and do not charge equally. That's why I say, the Pumas won on their own merit, and they didn't tilt the court this time. Now comes the second test, with a British referee, we lose for sure.

[@dandan4092]

Jeff Wilson is on a different planet

[@nickrad6966]

Arrogant delusion.

[@janniemeyer9951]

Sir JK is the wise owl. The AB’s are in trouble, as are the Boks.

[@drisszyani3497]

The NZRU has total responsibility with mediocre people and they kept the worst coach in the history.

[@kistingatuhyxz2634]

The ABs need a new coach n captain fullstop....papalii plz no7 BOOM

[@hhgg28]

Give some credit to Los Pumas, we did not play the best match, and yet we won. An amazing defense, a very wise use of the kick, and better discipline. And, may I say, much more will to win. It seems to be that the ABs under pressure loose discipline, don't blame no one but yourselves. Argentina kick the ABs lack of control and turn it into points. Facts. Anyway Los Pumas have to improve a lot of things for next one, but we are in a learning process with new coach, getting better every match.

[@npd6225]

As an Aussie, I actually love that you Kiwis don’t blame the Refs. The South African supporters are the biggest cry babies I’ve ever seen…. They’ve even got a dedicated KZbin channel to cry about referee decisions 😂. The all blacks will be back ….

[@kevinpillay6103]

I'm South African and yes it's dreadful too see how we only blame refs when we lose. It deflects from the bad coaching that we have as well.

[@npd6225]

@@kevinpillay6103 I respect that bro. Fast start by the Aussies, rattled you guys a bit but could’ve been negated if Pollard kicks those 2 penalties. Score would’ve been 7-9 to the Boks. Changes the game completely.

[@albertkotze8974]

but the refs do make shitty calld, no? and not just for the Boks, even for the ABs... so why should ANYBODY take shitty reffing?

[@guyhmajor]

As a Pom I’am just glad the Wallabies beat the Bok’s. It makes for a really open World Cup. With the French holding the top spot in the current world rankings anything is possible, as good as they are I don’t see their temperament holding out all the way to a World Cup final win.

[@doppies2000]

I blame our Coach, our Selection, and ultimately the Players ! however, that doesn't distracts from the fact that the Refereeing is at times shambolic ! it needs addressing !

[@christianellis3651]

Jeff Wilson is the embodiment of rugby delusionality. JK the embodiment of intelligent realism.

[@MickJaggerr1]

Bok fan here, the Abs loss made me feel a bit better about our loss to the Aussies 😅

[@alwynmalan1]

But even worse about our loss to the All Blacks 🤣

[@jameslast7555]

Hahahaha fair enough 😄

[@el33462]

As an Argentinian fan and with all the respect I have for New Zealand rugby, the seventh ranked team in the world simply beat the fifth ranked team in the world, and that is really possible, in this as in any other sport.

[@paulrichards6894]

how big is rugby in your country....is it miles behind football in popularity??

[@paulrichards6894]

i am welsh but i always find myself cheering for the pumas

[@el33462]

@@paulrichards6894 Hi Paul. Yes. Rugby here in Argentina is below soccer, motorsports, basketball, volleyball. But even so, in Argentina between 100,000 and 200,000 federated players practice rugby in all divisions (children, minors, youth and seniors). And every Pumas game is in a stadium full of people. Let us remember that in Argentina we are approximately 50 million people. And most of them very passionate people.

[@premiumlawns2526]

Honestly as a nz kid born in the 90s I’ve always wondered who gave the Argentinians a rugby ball. True dark horse of world rugby…remember 07 against France??

[@shanemorrison1977]

Shock that's a stretch,anyone who has followed rugby for more than 5 mins knows this is the new normal, NZ should be proud that it has helped other nations improve it's style of positive open attacking rugby.its beautiful too see competitive games.its not weather you win or lose its how you play the game Thanks ABs for that!!!

[@MrAhuapai]

The All Blacks seem to have lost the ability to grind a game out. Other teams used to eventually drop the ball or make an error. These days the ABs seem more likely to knock on or make a mistake. Their execution under pressure is poor. When you add the fact they have lost the fear factor with other teams so they play against the ABs with greater self belief than previously. Its all in the top 2 inches at the moment Im afraid.

[@usr7941]

Ab play like average Sr team. No creativity no unpredictability. Just pass wide, too fast. what has foster done with once the greatest team

[@MusMasi]

@@usr7941 They have little to no variation in attack that is for sure, and you can actually see some variation in attack from the better super rugby teams where they can adjust to the other teams defensive systems and how the ref is calling things, *cough* crusaders.

[@corny165]

It's amazing how many NZ'ers either are unable to see or don't want to see something that's painfully obvious... you just have average players mate! A few good ones but too many average ones.

[@MrAhuapai]

@@corny165 ABs fans watch these players in different contexts. When they are not executing skills for the ABs that they see them doing perfectly well for other teams they will question the collective mindset of the team as a whole.

[@corny165]

@@MrAhuapai You mean at a lower level, in a slower game, under less defensive pressure and against inferior teams?

[@keatoncollop6964]

Definitely not a shock. Argentina is blady good this year

[@geoerasmus3154]

Neither does the Springboks “adapt on the go”. When our 🇿🇦 plan doesn’t work we’re stuffed. Nothing to fall back on, no creativity. All too predictable.

[@nicolasgiant3993]

Excelente partido LOS PUMAS UNOS GRANDES de Argentina 🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@justinstephenson9360]

Discipline gave Pumas easy points, time after time after time. How many times were AB penalised for tackling a man without the ball? That is not a complicated penalty to spot. It seems to me that too many ABs were trying to hard to make an impression. It is time for AB to write off this Championship and bring the youngsters in

[@alfredstoffels]

The same with the Irish tests! Penalties penalties penalties!

[@huepix]

Yup Trying to hard. Gotta say seems the ABs are being stifled by some boarder line onsides while being penalised themselves. There have been some well dodgy ref decisions for and against all the sides. The penalty for tackling Cane after he lost the ball was atrocious. As was the shepherding penalty when there was no tackler obstructed and the line out lifters being penalised for, um, something. Everytime the ABs got momentum, the ref would get involved or the opposition feign an injury. Tough gig being a ref, but I wanna see footy, not someone blowing a whistle

[@carlbotha1289]

south Africa and new Zealand both needs a good clean out! easier to make the team than getting dropped is both teams Achilles heal! dreams about how good a player was years ago doesn't win u games today and here I refer to Steyn!

[@rh5466]

I like these guys. I'm Canadian, but each of JK, Mils and Jeff were tremendous players that always had me fixated on the TV when I watched them play. They seems really down to earth and cool too. Whenever I watch these Breakdown shows with them, I always feel like I'm there chatting it up with them about a sport we all love -- rugby.

[@aidankearney493]

"Goldie locks" is lost in his own fantasy island ,Kirwan makes so much sense.

[@petelivinlarge]

Come on Mils ....... Please make another video montage of Sam Cane doing the absolute bare essentials, then tell us these are the reasons he's the captain and how awesome he is at his job

[@Skybar23]

Does anyone think that the first test win vs Ireland was a co incident or the fact the team Foster was so far away from the team..

[@sevmassyn5660]

As long as pundits and NZ fans don't humble themselves and realise its not AB's playing bad but other teams playing better.... there's going to be no progress

[@camwells9726]

It’s both

[@usr7941]

Yes ab playing bad. You're bad at understanding the game. And no I'm not ab fan.

[@camwells9726]

@@usr7941 who is bad .?

[@foxyfoxyyumyum8511]

@@camwells9726 Micheal Jackson

[@mark-ish]

​@@camwells9726 you should be more concerned about, who is slow 😅

[@Argenswiss]

JK learnt from the last time he underestimated Argentina, the rest should start paying attention

[@harleylyons1889]

The side eye from Mills to Goldie at 4:51 sums up Goldie’s response 😂

[@foodbackstories]

I am a huge AB fan since the days of Pinetree Meads. However, Argentina has always been an exciting team who can implode one moment and thrill the next. This is the one team that can beat the All Blacks even when the ABs are at their best. But ... can Argentina go one further and beat the ABs in the 2nd encounter? And, furthermore, win the Championship? That is the million dollar question. Beating the ABs once in a while is fine, but it's time Argentina delivers on the promise they have shown and start going all the way. To win major events/trophies. NZ seems to be battling to replace their former stars who have since retired - which is never easy. Carter, Ben Smith, Nonu, Crockett, McCaw (Legend) Conrad Smith etc won't be replaced overnight. That being said, one thing we can be sure of however: The ABs will be back!

[@ciaranm7900]

All irrelevant really they got out played at the end of the day. Argentina definitely the better team on the day. They played the game the pumas wanted them to and fell into their trap and gave them the platforms they needed to stay in the game and win it

[@Sean-xl5ge]

Watching as a neutral...have to give Argentina massive credit but nz played into their hands and got sucked into playing a type of game that doesn't suit them. Have to disagree with Wilson saying arg try came from kick off error. It came from great chase and pressure on receiver. Nz seem to have no plan b when facing a team with quick aggressive line speed

[@Seactor]

You said it Sean! They can't cope with line speed. Ireland showed several times that if you cut the supply to the wings early and have the manpower to front up against them they are average.

[@jaytee7275]

Mills Muliaina must be feeling so stupid and embarrassed after his predictions the day before the match...🤣

[@drisszyani3497]

Muliaina and Wilson wanted to see the worst coach in the history continue.

[@dkjh23]

Talking around in circles Goldie.... You loved to hear your own voice mate! Congrats Pumas well played.

[@donallally4892]

I think that this result shows that any team you can think of, any tem in Rugby that is, you can have the best team in the world, but you need a really good manager to pull it all together, and Ian Foster is not doing that,

[@anthonyslater3374]

Got to give it to Argentina they deserved the win but new Zealand will be back there a quality side and I wouldn't want to face them then I'm delighted as an irish man we beat them first time in over 100 yrs in new Zealand

[@allin8795]

Jeff Wilson trying his best to make it sound like everything is okay with NZ rugby. As an english fan I'd love Ian Foster to sign a big new contract!

[@MusMasi]

At least you admit it, Most are loving Fosters Coaching because it is bad, then calling New Zealanders sore losers for being critical of their coach. Be honest if you had Foster as the England Coach and he had only won 25% of his games this year would you guys not be critical of him and wanting him replaced?

[@bodhid]

@@MusMasi ad an England fan we'd want him replaced with that win record. In his worst season I think EJ won more than 25% of his games. Even a 50% win ratio is poor tbh.

[@zommellemmoz3999]

I fell your pain - how dare the Pumas win? Whinners

[@Leon71414]

This is such a great time for rugby, so many teams playing great rugby, northern and southern hemisphere . Rugby needed this.

[@usr7941]

What's so great about it? All teams are mediocre risk averse with no identity. Even ab. No outstanding tries🥱😴😴😴

[@chrisbarlow9921]

First and foremost well done Argentina! Secondly, ABs in transition - learn more from the losses than wins. Agree on leadership, composure under pressure, and get the basics right!

[@lukec2226]

Argentina had better game management, something we have been lacking for the last 3 or 4 years. They took their chances when the came, and kept the scoreboard moving thanks to our mistakes. We are starting to look like the Wallabies. A 'leadership' team that is too close to the coach and out of ideas, blaming the referee. There is nothing about NZ rugby at the moment that looks like a high performance organisation.

[@officialkingston3209]

I wish my country Namibia could get better like Argentina and beat New Zealand at the the rugby world cup🇳🇦🇳🇦

[@matiasherrera8264]

For sure ! You gonna make it !!! Bro's!!! From Argentina

[@mjames131]

Keep dreaming lol.

[@mauricegarvey4631]

The Namibia try v NZ at Wembley was an amazing moment - you could hear the crowd go bananas watching it live

[@matiasherrera8264]

@@mjames131 ...as we were dreaming too " lol" from Argentina.

[@NathanFlay]

It breaks my heart to see some fellow kiwis act the way they do about how the all blacks aren't doing that well lately and being rude to other teams and even making the all blacks feel ashamed of the fact that they lost and I'm sorry about it to all other teams that have been in the firing line, I don't want you to think we're bad people we just take pride in our team so much and we're so used to winning that we cant handle losing and we will have to adapt to it in this golden age of rugby. I think we as all black fans shouldn't be bringing them further down in their lows but showing that we support them no matter what. It could be bad coaching, bad game plan or even poor disciplin, but I think we need to uplift them and let them know we aren't pissed off at them for the losses but as fans help them by giving our thoughts on what could be improved and yes maybe the coach could be better at his job but we should stand by our boys no matter what, a real fan would never bring their team down.

[@assassin8or]

We are blessed enough to living in the golden age of Rugby. There are no more clear favourites. Anyone can beat anyone on the day. This next World Cup is going to be tremendously exciting

[@benoitcransac2178]

"every game should be your last" is excellent if you have the charisma to say it to your players, Ian.

[@Jul-nf1ds]

Im from Argentina...respect above all to the All Blacks....when i was a kid...i remember watching NZ training, waitin for Umaga, Lomu...etc they were idols for me at that time.... Nz will get better, and we will see each other next time!

[@tenoakiel2155]

Congratulations to Argentina. My favourite team outside of the ABs

[@naveenbandarage]

Jeff Wilson is in Ian Fosters pocket. What is he talking about not judging off 1 game!!

[@jaguaresrugbyfans8286]

Georgia beats italy, wales beats SA, ARG beats AUS, AUS beat ARG, ARG beats NZ, France beats Ireland, Ireland beats NZ, Japan almost beats France, Chile beats USA and CAN, Scotland beats England. Let's just be clear. Rugby is getting closer. And I think that is awesome.

[@malindirugbyfootballclub1180]

Funny to watch you guys so wobbly! 🤗 the kick off try was about Aaron smith needing to retire. I just think argentina wanted it more and took their chances.

[@tgibso1]

Clarke stood off as well - just saying

[@michaelellard4664]

Keeping the Laws of the Game would greatly help.

[@kelbatt7729]

evenly applied objectivity from match officials would also help

[@mdavidom5903]

JK making the most sense on the breakdown. How times have changed. It’s actually really exciting for test rugby...anyone can beat anyone else on their day. 🔥🔥🔥

[@speak_your_truth.]

Goldie is in that Egyptian river

[@irishgooner6253]

Wilson says their try was off a kick off error.pretty sure the all blacks scored a try off a pumas lineout error.always about what the all blacks gave the opposition but never the other way round.

[@tuluvota]

4:51 Mils looking like he didn’t have his usual bowl of cocoa rice before this segment

[@dhirshg]

Loving JK going up against Jeff! Great objectivity.

[@fabiangroom3228]

JK is a wise man. He may not have been successful as a coach but when things didn't work out he did the honourable thing. I think that in his own way he is advising Fozzie to do the same. There is nothing more honourable than admitting your mistakes and resigning for the sake of the greater good.

[@GabrielFossaRobecchi]

Richie McCaw, towards 100 penalties, and was charged 3. The All Blacks always take more penalties than anyone, but they are charged to the opponent. I'm tired of seeing how they don't see penalties, forward passes, and they never charge anything. And when there is a ruck, they always hinder the exits, ALWAYS.

[@joedennehy386]

Richie McCaw was only penalised 3 times, have you ever watched him play. You're mad

[@GabrielFossaRobecchi]

@@joedennehy386 Dear, is a way of saying. Richie McCow, is a great, an iconic player, of course I saw him play, I admire him. But always Richie, he took a lot of penalties, but he didn't get penalized in all of them. That's what I mean, he was always on edge. It is that you They are used to watching matches in which they play and most of them are from the commonwealth, so the referees dispense justice well. But when they play against the Pumas, we always have to pay the floor fee. Until now. Greetings.

[@aspectlab9310]

Goldie's a dreamer man!

[@kylelouer4323]

And Caleb does run the ball hard, but has given up a try each game he’s scored one this season. So don’t say he’s the most physical player when ardie is clearly the most physical

[@usr7941]

They say Caleb is fast but I've yet to see it

[@imafrican23]

True. Caleb is a liability on defence. I remember how Am and Kurt-Lee Arendse got around him easily when he played the boks. I can't comment on Argentina game cos I only watched the highlights.

[@randomizedrandomly]

sadly and much to the denial of most Kiwis but rugby is no longer "our" sport it seems. Wellington played Norhtland at Jerry Collins Stadium which seats just under 2000 max capacity and I swear there were only about 100 people there. We no longer get behind our boys like we use to and this is across all levels of our game..Kiwis seem more interested in Football, NBA and Figure Skating, the old rough and tumble, get her done days sadly are slowly passing us by..

[@juanmagg5909]

Kiwis have to realize that the rest of Tier 1 rugby teams have finally catch up to them, All Blacks reached a point where they became stagnated and believed they would keep being the best just on raw talent alone. Meanwhile the rest of the world keeps improving and proving the All Blacks they are no longer a Giant between good teams, but a Giant between other Giants.

[@mysticproduce705]

I can not believe your New Zealanders pundits make so much drama for just some losses …it is crazy …you are still the number one rugby team in the world. Your Rugby history is so great that can not be taken away just for loosing upon good Teams that also make Their efforts to try to win to the all blacks and making so the rugby game more competitive and attractive to the masses. Thanks

[@MusMasi]

Correction New Zealand is the number 4 rugby team in the world.

[@mysticproduce705]

@@MusMasi historically has been always number one team most of the time

[@Camcolito]

@@mysticproduce705 Historically there was more ice in the Arctic.

[@mysticproduce705]

@@Camcolito 😂😂👍

[@Camcolito]

@@mysticproduce705 ;)

[@Markthespark1970]

AB's need to put the same passion and energy that they put into the Haka on the field of play.

[@hernan5940]

NZ was never in control of the game. Jeff Wilson is talking bollocks. Argentina beat them in every aspect

[@Kariraa]

People who watch the ABs closly know what the problem is and it is exactly what JK is talking about. Players are in there on reputation and not in there on form. Barrett is not the second best lock, Cane is not the best 7, Smith is not the best 9, Jordie was the best 12 in Super Rugby and Jordan was the best FB...and that is just the start. Play the best players in their best position - what is so hard about doing that?! The ABs need more players who bend the line on attack to disrupt good defence. Fuck just give me the job 😂🤦🏾‍♂️

[@MusMasi]

look at the hookers as well, Finally the best guy is starting but the veterans they have behind him kind of well are not playing the best, they should of blooded more hookers over the last couple of years, coles has been one of the best at the position but that was years ago for example.

[@nathanrota4555]

Il be assistant 😆 lol

[@Kariraa]

@@nathanrota4555 Hired bro! Do we need a third its usually the way 😂

[@clivemarsden5655]

Spot on. Jordan must feel like a little kid out on the wing in the rain, waiting for a ball that's never coming. That centre pairing doesn't work, period. Havili never a 12 and Reiko never ever a 13. Lumpy ride ahead

[@Kariraa]

@@clivemarsden5655 just imagine losing the Bledisloe as well Clive! 😬

[@rivenwizz]

Jeff is salty as he has been defending the ABs the last few weeks and is running out of excuses! There are a number of problems with the ABs but low confidence is such a big problem for them now. Aussies to win the bledisloe? I think they will be favourites

[@dominicm255]

Low confidence? no, its impossibly high expectations. They have an added psychological pressure, which a team like, Ireland or Argentine don't have when they play the ABs. They're not expected to win...

[@bazzybadboy7160]

J K is right we lost and we lost badly we went there to play the game Argentina went there to win the game and they did!

[@D4rthyyy_]

The reality is the world has caught up, we are going through a down period in terms of player talent (just like every team). It’s not as simple and swap the coach and it’s all good. We just need to prepare ourselves for a rough patch for the next while.

[@SILVIOV76]

If Argentina wins without playing "good rugby" then don't put any excuses when they do still beat you playing "good rugby" I say it with respect. Not to give any credit to Argentina its above many things, a big mistake. We, as a soccer nation, learned that a long time ago. We will beat most of the teams, but we can also loose to anyone. In every sport, the gap between nations is closing.

[@subhuman119]

Argentina's win was well deserved. But they won off the back the All Blacks lack of discipline. Call be biased, but they did. Alot of the teams seem to be peaking early, unlike New Zealand and South Africa. Regardless of what Jeff Wilson says, J.K is spot on. Time to bring in younger players, and put the older boys on the side line for a while. Make them find their desire to play in the jersery and earn there spot in the game day 23. People like Sam Cane, Codie Taylor, Sam Whitelock almost expect to be in the team when it's named.

[@MultiAmbivalent]

From an Australian, don't be so hard on yourselves NZers. This is what the rest of us go through all the time lol. It was also only going to be a matter of time before other countries caught up and started to believe the ABs can be beaten. I'm amazed the dominance lasted as long as it has.

[@kelbatt7729]

ABS resurgence will occur in 24 after the dreadful 23 RWC and the great cleanout

[@berserkertraining7236]

For as long as I can remember New Zealand have had this ability to become the best team in the world for about 15 minutes in a game. Where they can score from anywhere and do anything. They can be behind and bring a game back. But outside of that 15 minutes they are no better than any other team in the world. They have gone on down at half time to teams like Wales, Argentina and other teams(by less than 10) then in the second half become the “ALL BLACKS” instead of being New Zealand. It’s not apparent that if you can stop that 15 minutes from being a thing, or instead of panicking and looking for try’s, you can kick them out of the game and nullify that “ALL BLACK” magic window. The professional era of rugby has finally caught up to New Zealand. A 15 minute window of pure brilliance is not enough anymore. They mentioned how Argentina didn’t create try’s, well what happens when they play a team that actually can? Well actually we have seen that with France and Ireland. Is the age of all black magic over? Do New Zealand need to change they way they play?

[@brandoneloff5255]

Goldie saying play the territory game and scrum strong.. Thats pretty much Springbok tactics but these pundits all said the boks were killing rugby with this tactics a year ago🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[@mattobrien7373]

Well done Agrentina, Love it when the kiwis fight with each other

[@priehowell8825]

It's wonderful 😊

[@wakaroawaata1586]

In money terms I bet the All Blacks have lost millions in marketing value, We're not number one We're number five, yeah that's millions of lost dollars, thanks super coach Foster and top captain Cain, I'm not watching AB rugby any more until these clowns are gone.

[@zabaleta66]

JK is real. Goldie is basically saying the Puma's fluked the win due to our errors....FFS, delusional! But fellas, Cane is NOT the answer at 7 or as the skipper!!

[@dylerturden8018]

3:37 but thats exactly it John, they're not gonna get dropped. There are no consequences with Foster, doesn't matter if the player is completely clueless or past it, they'll still appear in the next, unchanged squad, week after week after week, because you're cognitively impaired coach thinks he's 'working on something' or 'building something special' thats never going to eventuate.

[@drisszyani3497]

If we don’t sack the worst coach in the history the disaster will continue and he will beat the wrong record. Nz rugby need revolution total : clean -out = the NZRU clowns + foster + senior players. Give all the keys to Scott robertson to rebuild the team with the new generation youngers talents.

[@marcosreynoso3901]

Even though the team may have flaws and losses currently, Argentina rugby team has been for a long time the best national team from South America and even the whole continent of America, being listed many time on the list of the best from the South Hemisphere along with South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

[@Severino_Radic]

Will these guys one day give Argentina some credit? It seems that every NZ loss is more of a NZ problem than an opponent's credit.

[@SDMotorsports]

Goldie is delusional

[@KelbornXx]

Its simple. The rest of the class A rugby nations have caught up with the All Blacks! The next decade of Rugby Union should be the most fascinating to watch! Even the World Cup just over a year away is completely open for the first time, any of the big nations can win it!

[@bootsandall3612]

The era of honest skill filled rugby is long gone. The sport of rugby is not controlled by rugby anymore.

[@RaterisimoCBA]

Did the guy on the right say Argentina didn't play Rugby ? Lol He must have been watching the wrong sport then all this time. What a disrespectful journalist.

[@dsartain3404]

Jeff, where you are now is where you are now. Being at a loss to understand it, describes how you feel that the team shouldn’t be where they are now - but they are. You sound like someone who is angry and frustrated but won’t say that they are. Over the last several weeks you have tried to hide your criticisms- you never quite criticise but there’s no way you aren’t being critical. It would be far better if you did and then offer some constructive criticism.

[@osnnez]

Discipline is necessary but not sufficient to win a game. Order against disorder, order wins. Order against order, the talent wins. Argentina learned to get organized and take advantage when AB is disordered. Greetings from Argentina!

[@rugbyratingz3731]

Just sack foster! He is the one choosing Sam cane as the captain! He is the one managing the backs and there is always the same tacticts which never work! When foster goes and get razor we would do better!

[@shitstorm222]

Wilson has lost it recently. You need to be professional, Jeff. We get you're a former AB and take these losses personally, but so are JK and Mills. All legends, but only two of the guys are looking at the game objectively.

[@peterclark6290]

On-field leadership is the key to Rugby. Reacting cleverly, positively and accurately to the opposition's initial emphases (game plan?). However the pressure from has-beens, instant experts, traditions, etc. weigh down on the thinking processes within the team _on the field_ because you know Kiwis and Aussies automatically love the underdog, it's in our genes, it is irreducible. We get arrogant and vulnerable when we do not. Any team is beatable; stay in that club. The chattering class should be barred from entry. Jeff, that was a developmental front row from the Argies. 2. Off-loads are the modern/old game (support lines, anticipation, communication, seeing weaknesses, etc.) 3. Holding the ball drains the opposition. Kick less.

[@floydkingi4364]

"I believe we need to be more direct, more physical in the midfield!" Genius Jeff Wilson finally figuring out the obvious!

[@joedennehy386]

You and goldie are mad. We kept running the ball in hand hoping for a different result for the last 20 minutes, when we should have been kicking, and playing territory

[@robertevans9897]

You guys have got to accept that losing now and then is what competition is don't panic and except a bit of humility it's good for the game wales have learned it stop beating yourselves up

[@Marcel-xc6ci]

It wasnt a surprise shock to me. I was expecting us to lose.