2 NEW Refrigerants!

[@sinistersilverado965]

R290 is the way to go, very efficient, there shouldn't be much worry about the flammability we use propane and natural gas for stoves, water heaters and HVAC already

[@firstbigbarney]

This video was a good primer on refrigerants..Thank You.. The most important part is about the air to water heat pumps, where all the refrigerant is outside in a sealed system and only heated or cooled water enters the building. I consider the r410 and all its cousins to be on the way out. R290 and CO2 are the future where high efficiency and in the long run , in sealed system similar to a window a/c but in a whole house unit.

[@jorzer18]

I’ve been using R290 for at least 2yrs now in small commercial kitchen refrigeration. The US has a set legal amount of R290 that can be used. The R290 is like chemist lab grade propane, it has no odor! I like it. Plus it’s really efficient! The size of the evaporator and condensers is notably smaller including the actual copper piping.

[@Freonleon]

Yeah you see places take r290 and add multiple condenser and evaporator for walk in and stuff. That’s how they work around the 60 grams or whatever it is that is the max amount in a system

[@FatManDoubleZero]

PROPANE is one of the most potentially explosive products on the market. I wouldn't even consider using it as a replacement for R-410-A. Existing manufacturers of air handling equipment will never give a factory warranty on their equipment if used with PROPANE as a refrigerant.

[@Freonleon]

@@FatManDoubleZero it’s a replacement for more the medium and low temp small appliances and commercial appliances. And anything is flammable keep the flame there long enough 410 can catch fire. But it takes a lot for that to happen and the safety’s that are gonna be including in new equipment only a hack will blow something up. R32 and 458b or whatever they are switching to is a mildly flammable refrigerant. By then end of my life time everything will be co2 or water

[@jorzer18]

@@FatManDoubleZero US standards are very far from using propane in a residential system.

[@chrism9017]

It's explosive AND they leave out the odorant??? That's nuts.

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

-Gotta buy a trailer to haul all of the different types of refrigerants around. :)

[@mjwdrones4all41]

yup all those bottles eating up space n the service rig...

[@EP1CNELSON]

we already use r290 in commercial kitchen reach in coolers and make tables. It's a A3 very flammable which also requires it to be carried in small quantities or you would need a DOT Hazmat. It would be hard to put r290 in large quantities in a residential or commercial hvac application.

[@R290s_biggest_fan]

In my experience the flammability is not an issue. Even when unsweating lines. It's really not an issue.

[@williambrennan5701]

looked it up a 40 degree coil is about 113psi with R32 and 120 with R454B so I'm willing to bet they will interchangeable in most applications just fine . I can definitely see people just stocking whatever is cheaper . should be zero issues noticed by the home owner of they topped it off with the wrong gas . Refrigerant doesn't care If you compress it to the proper temperature and allow it to vaporize at the proper pressures it's going to make cold. If the pressures are close enough to what the expansion valve is set for everything's going to work fine. The pipes nor expansion valve could care what number is on the side of the tank of the fluid that's being pumped into them. I do see a safety issue though . the molecular weight of these hfc refrigerants are much lower than their old counterparts. why does that matter? leaks . I've already had issues with fancy stand alone wine chillers and now refrigerators filled with R600a developing mystery leaks but yet when I refill them with R134a , no more mystery leaks... On 600a they just run out of gas. I believe it's simply seeping out of the seal of the electrical connections on the compressor. Here is why this matters . Have you seen the snap on fittings ? nice and easy just push till click basically a shark bite . they are being used more and more I can see all the DIY stuff going to that as a safe solution. copper and rubber don't make sparks nice and safe right? . But can this rubber in the seals of that fitting hold back the gas. is it going to fail? seep through and require regular top offs ? . have they been tested for longevity. what if the installer doesn't get it just right and they have a catastrophic failure like I've seen a shark bite have months after install but you're not going to have a leak of water 410A or R22 spray out You're going to have propane ....yeah.. See R32 in a perfect world is ok R290 is ok but the world is not perfect. HFC are going to game changers . Gonna be allot of burned up installers from not using the right recovery equipment. R290 is no joke . it is propane that has been filtered and has had all of the moisture removed. I know some guys that used R290 right into R22 systems and it worked great ,heck it still is. Ive used it in some of my own R22 stuff but never someone elses. As far as R290 being new it's been around forever . I bought a cylinder of this for half it's current price in 2020 on eBay . here a link you can buy a nice big jug right now mailed to your house no license required for around 400 www.ebay.com/itm/155447356285?epid=6031289737&hash=item2431626b7d:g:CxUAAOSwUDxkCxey&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4AchjzUSBn1v9HSpeBvYOr0kdjsYo%2FSMp4O9QAMXwjUAGqWjolal%2B28fdHlzTS1RKR32ni%2BMGJBXE4RyQdkiwfrfAqxNh8aC8jlKmUnyakph%2Bzx9lmOuPrL613fOy%2F76USjwaGDncFmXGR%2FBylBCR1ZTN10us3YxSZrmwAkAymzK5hFoDerG%2FYPmZ0TFrFzJKpdzhYdVrrKOINTp1%2FzA2mVzwYtC3d3MYW2E3rEg9FpRA1mBMkTamLUTeeePM7nqcD0jm97DbOjdvcRsBSa4N%2Bv41ztMdDsywkQM0i9Uo0RR%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmsr-i_hh

[@JohnnyRecently]

Let me guess. The new Refrigerants are more expensive.

[@maxd4968]

Nope less

[@emile-a2394]

New refrigerants tend to be more expensive the moment they are intruduced due to high demand low avelability, but as they fully fase in, they are cheaper. R32 specifically will be cheaper than r410.

[@tjnorton100]

In the uk there is a limit on the quantity of A2 refrigerant that can be used in a single sysyem. Its been raised from 150gr to 500gr as long as the correct procedures are followed there are no issues.

[@R290s_biggest_fan]

R290 is the refrigerant of the future. Get on board folks.

[@Honestandtruth007]

I just Subscribed for your Great info and video 👍👍

[@NewHVACGuide]

Thank you!

[@LinusJohansson-yu7cy]

Propane R290 is the best stuff ever.👍 Very low GWP, inert to moisture, effective and power saving. And also easy and legal to DIY since it's basically just BBQ gas.

[@miguelquiroz1550]

Great information Brother. Thanks!

[@francescomarchesi-j6k]

Monoblock Air to Water Heat Pump R290 is the way to go ( H+C+DHW). Let's convince UL and ETL to create standards and testing...

[@donfrussell]

Two questions- to vacuum/evacuate an R-32 new mini split- you need a left threaded service adapter- right? -who sells it can't find it anywhere- also tried amazon and E bay? Second question are R32 and R290 the same? are they pure propane? Thanks Don

[@bjre.wa.8681]

why is Bluon R458a not even mentioned. I'm running it for the second year and it's doin' fine. It was WWaaay less expensive than R-22 last year.

[@brent3569]

Pure propane means very little or no Butane in the gas. propane and butane coexist in the LPG distillates

[@archer9732]

What about R-470a? It's a drop-in replacement for R-410a.

[@pablopicaro7649]

Fundamentals are that when the Patents expire, profits drop, and its time to for Chemical companies pay Lobbyists and professors and 'environmentalists' that a NEW Patented refrigerant is needed. Then repeat again after Patents expire.

[@model101jr5]

And who decides which refrigerant is bad for the planet? EPA. Same f tards that say east Palestine is a ok. Smfh. All bs imho

[@rivergate950]

give me a break you are just blowing steam. did you ever think that maybe there are helpful scientists out there who don't care about money and just work for the good of society.

[@dickjohnson5979]

No, we don't think that. It's all about money!

[@emile-a2394]

R-32 has existed for as long as R-410A, part of the mix in R-410A is R-32

[@MrAdamd83]

They need to come up with a retrofit Freon for r410a that we are having to pay for a 600 dollar jug of r410a causing us to have to change the 410a to something else

[@gainestruk1]

I have no problem with Propane, I'm 62 and had Propane heat, cooking, and hot water all my life, I don't see adding it to air conditioner as an issue, right now in Oklahoma propane cost me $1.99 a gallon, I use around 300 gallons a year and have a 500 gallon tank, I do hope they keep it odorized, otherwise you couldn't smell a leak, as it is now you can smell a very small leak.

[@NewHVACGuide]

Need stock up on it before the price jumps 🙂

[@gainestruk1]

@@NewHVACGuide I have 400 gallons now, you can't fill all they way because in the summer when it gets hot the tank will blow off pressure (the propane), im going to keep it full keeping eye on price.

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

I don't believe any of those uses of propane involve mechanical compression and /or immediate proximity to air ducts..

[@gainestruk1]

@@rosewoodsteel6656 Well yes it does, my 40000 but propane furnace blows straight into air ducts, have done that since 1988 when we had house built, its an up flow furnace the coil sits just above the heat exchanger going into the air ducts.

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

@@gainestruk1 Understood! Thanks for the quick response. What I meant, is that evaporative coils can leak and new ones often do. I'd hate to have propane leaking inside of my ductwork. A furnace, natural gas or propane, is not prone to leaking, I believe you would agree. Just my opinion on propane as refrigerant. :) I appreciate your comments, Michael.

[@tairdudeusa7981]

Unfortunately, I drive a van not a semi-truck. I intend on starting the new year with three refrigerants on my truck. That means six full and partial cans of refrigerant and three reclaim tanks. I have a feeling that R-454 B is going to be found on the side of the road dead but not until after it causes a lot of financial ruin and damage to both the customers and the companies that used it. All of my customers already know that R 32 is the only A2L I will be carrying on my truck. That also means I will only be carrying equipment that uses R 32 refrigerant.

[@scruples671]

They are just making all refrigerants an expensive commodity. Key word commodity. Investors are taking over the refrigerant market.

[@klugger01]

R22 and R290 have the same thermo dynamic qualities, R22 eats up the ozone layer and R290 goes BOOM!! when it meets open flame. Not a big deal if you dont have hot water tanks that draw combustion air off the floor of your basement. Daikin is a fully owned Chinese manufacturing company, not sure why you support them? probably not my business! R32 is mostly natural gas, still goes BOOM!! in direct contact with open flame. I personally think that R22 would still be the safest option for the regular home owner.

[@mikaelahyakuya3485]

You mean Japanese owned? Yes, it's a Japanese company owned by Japanese.

[@NewHVACGuide]

Japanese owned company but unlike several other manufacturers that have moved their manufacturing to Mexico, Daikin has factories in the USA.

[@Freonleon]

The ultimate goal is c02

[@eduardoquintero7205]

Hi,Josh will there still have r41 0a 11/2024

[@NewHVACGuide]

It’s not going away anytime soon. Well maybe sometime soon but not anytime soon 🙂

[@Freonleon]

The uk just started the phase down of r32

[@raidone7413]

😂fr??

[@Freonleon]

@@raidone7413 yeah we are 10 years or more behind everywhere else. R32 is half of 410a, 410a been phased out over there for years, they are like the California for the world as far as taking action in epa issues

[@warrenlanham9088]

Im sorry but with all due respect anyone that says "its not about money. It's about the environment" when it comes to ac equipment manufacturers has no clue what they're talking about. Ive been in the industry for nearly 20 years and seen the many things manufacturers have done to squeeze more money out of consumers (especially when it comes to commercial equipment and service).

[@dporrasxtremeLS3]

Is there a dropin replacement for 410a now? What is it?

[@NewHVACGuide]

The FIRST 410A Drop-In Refrigerant HITS the Market! kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5i4pH58rciqqrs

[@FatManDoubleZero]

Yes there is and it's called RS-53 (R-470A); to be marketed in the USA by a New York Company named ComStar International.

[@threeftr3349]

OMG, propane running through my attic. My attic is 140+ in the summer. There's a light switch in the attic. It's one thing in a RV. Funny, the RV industry wants to get away from propane and go to all electric campers. Are they going to raise the price per lb., and make all gas station get an EPA License to touch propane now? Is a natural gas furnace HVAC compatible with propane? Its not fair to consumers, the prices are just going up so high to buy HVAC. I have a 7 year old R410A--and it costed me 100'a of dollars just to fill 3 lbs.

[@davidperry4013]

Lower pressure = micro channel coil friendly.

[@shadowbanned69]

I feel that r410a was a disaster refrigerant The pressures were waaay to high and it ruined alot of good system designs. If we could come up with a refrigerant like r12 and make it cleaner.. boom big dollas

[@timothy5977]

I've been in the industry since 1999 and I don't like anything about it now and where it's going.

[@sundogaudio851]

whats going to be an R410a drop in?

[@zachosborne6577]

R32 or R470A

[@sundogaudio851]

@@zachosborne6577 thanks any non flammable options?

[@pipi7731]

Some of the Pros don't know one end of the AC or the other. Just look at jammed up work people are showing on KZbin. I think we need a safer chemical. Maybe one that is not flammable.

[@jdamx_0000]

i dont understand why they keep making the 400 series refrigerant. they will all phase out in the 2030s. we should focus on refrigerant such as ammonia, co2 and propane (refrigeration) and new AC refrigerant that could be in the market long enough. being in the trade i feel bad for people or companies that need to change or retrofit their unit because new refrigerants keep coming up even though they'll be useless in a decade

[@Adam-ul2px]

Great topic, they will probably make us change refrigerants a few more times and then re-release "R12, new and improved!" They've got to get away from the higher pressure refrigerants though, it can't pollute if it's not leaking

[@adamcraven2002]

12000 years ago mammoth farts ended the ice age lol

[@Deaftractor]

R290 come on 3 yrs later will stop selling they the way do with R22,r410, R32. Stop selling I wonder R290 how much require hi pressure while compression running. ???

[@billyrayhopkinsjr5413]

Howmuch

[@james10739]

Its never actually about the environment

[@FatManDoubleZero]

ComStar International Inc., a New York corporation, announced the introduction of its R-410A drop-in replacement refrigerant with the ASHRAE designation of R-470A and a A-1 certification of non-flammable and low-toxicity. ComStar’s brand name for R-470A is RS-53. RS-53 (R-470A) is a new patented HFO blend with an ultra-low Global Warming Potential (GWP) of 909 (AR5) and is zero ozone depleting: R-410a has a high GWP of 1924 (AR5). It has similar energy efficiency and cooling capacity as R-410A, along with similar discharge pressure and flow rate. While RS-53’s (R-470A) non-flammable blend is formulated to replace the current R-410A refrigerant in existing R-410A units without changing oils or components, it can also be used in new R-410A units. Because the mass flow of RS-53 is similar to R-410A, RS-53 can be used in systems with capillary, fixed orifice, and variable expansion devices of both air conditioning and refrigeration systems. In my mind, the KEY WORDS PHRASES are "DROP IN REPLACEMENT FOR 410-A," "LOW GWP," "NON-FALMABLE," and "ZERO OZONE DEPLETING." These qualities set RS-53 apart from the rest and make it the superior replacement for R-410-A.

[@carllungwitz5171]

Is R290 just deodorized propane?

[@ohiopat]

No, there is a ton of sulfur and oil and all kinds of crap in the propane you buy. R290 is clean

[@lewmiesz366]

Propane for your gas grill has a stinky substance added to it, so you can know if you have a leak. That stinky smell (mercaptan) is not compatible with refrigeration systems. If I have a bottle of r290 in the back of my truck that begins to leak I will not be able to smell it. Until it finds an ignition source and then I become a flaming ball of fire while I'm going down the highway. NO THANK YOU!

[@peterstencell804]

You have heavy ends in regular propane.

[@boopoopies]

That’s capitalism 😂

[@Patrick-hq7sq]

R-290 is probably not a good idea to have in larger 1-5 Ton range in a house rather than a small reach in that takes a couple of oz. Can’t wait for to see what the new standard is in the us for comfort cooling.

[@sciencetestsubject]

Germany for example has rules about how much flammable refrigerant can be inside a home, maximum is 150g. However large R290 heat pumps use water as an intermediate, cold water is pumped to the outside unit, and is heated there. The same idea can be used for cooling. Also the German fraunhofer institute developed a 12kw one way water to water heatpump with just 120g of R290. For comparison, my 2 head 1 outdoor unit mini split heatpump has 1,5kg of R32 and is just 4kw.

[@Patrick-hq7sq]

@@sciencetestsubject so it’s like a reverse water source heat pump? Or chiller depending on the mode?

[@sciencetestsubject]

@@Patrick-hq7sq the refrigeration system isn't reversible, the reversing valve would take up too much volume. But a lot can be achieved with valves and steering water.

[@Patrick-hq7sq]

@@sciencetestsubject oh ok is there a specific model number for that equipment ?

[@sciencetestsubject]

@@Patrick-hq7sq no, it's a proof of concept prototype. Update, just looked it up again, and the project is called LC150, LC standing for low charge