Refrigerants 410a OUT! R32 IN! Here's Why!

In this video, Joshua Griffin goes over the best refrigerant replacing 410a when it's completely phased out in the U.S. He also goes through the website R32reasons.com and touches on the highlights of what makes R32 the best choice when replacing 410a HVAC equipment in your home. Joshua goes over several R32 facts and shares why this should even matter to the average homeowner before they purchase heating and air conditioning systems.
www.r32reasons.com/
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---------Chapters-----------
0:00 Intro: 410a phase out and new refrigerants
0:47 R32 Reasons Website
1:19 Why R32?
3:49 More Reasons
5:43 In Summary
6:58 Why should you care?
7:32 Outro: Your comments?
#hvac #refrigerants #r32

[@TheGhettoLobster]

R-410a is no longer the environmentally friendly refrigerant it once was. Imagine that.

[@bplotts1]

​@neal cassady nailed it

[@patmcbride9853]

@neal cassady ...and control.

[@patmcbride9853]

Every "saving the planet" solution leads to new problems.

[@DavidStrchld]

R-410a didn't meet the standards to begin with, so was never going to stay. It was just a temporary patch. It was environmentally friendlier then what it replaced but still had ways to go. It's like so many baseless arguments today, no Junior, new things that replace older tech don't have to be perfect, just better, it's called engineering.

[@odius94]

​@@DavidStrchld no, it's an evil plot to make money! 😉

[@aBusybee]

I just had a Mitsubishi hvac minisplit heatpump installed in my house. After watching this, I just asked them for a followup on this evolving situation. Thank you for making this video.

[@ricardocalles140]

If I can have a Goodman 3 ton running on R32 I'll be happy. Currently running a R22 Goodman 13 SEER with Copeland scroll that I installed myself 15 years ago which is still running great but will be looking to upgrade to a higher SEER unit once the R32 units come out.

[@ohiopat8517]

I think not being a blend sells me on it. It removes a bunch of variables like you said.

[@huntermcclary7090]

That’s what makes me a bit more positive about it

[@TdrSld]

Looks like the 410a patents ran out, and DuPont needs to come up with a way to keep they hold on the market.

[@bolsabolsismo4889]

you will never understand how leftists destroy the economy, so still blaming DuPont for leftist environmentalist- communist sabotages. At the end people like you deserve what they get, everytime a leftist makes a sabotage rule, there is the people like you blaming others.

[@anthony10370]

Sounds about right

[@brotheraugustine]

That was my first instinct too

[@foghornleghorn8536]

The patent on R32 expired in 2005. Try again.

[@anthony10370]

Well it’s still between difficult to impossible to get a can of it in America. So somebody’s making money if only the people selling units that no one can recharge because of gas availability. I also hear that r32 has a high discharge temp making compressor oil burn up quicker. If you have a source for r32 let me know I’m 608 universal.

[@cosmodog1803]

Great presentation, answered my questions as you went thru it

[@amrohabib7119]

Great video! Thank you!

[@michaelwoody8737]

Dang, I got my associates in HVAC/R in 08 and 410a had its own certification test and was the wave of the future.

[@williamvaughan1218]

Futures past evidently

[@MarshallDudley]

The patent ran out.

[@MrBen527]

Sounds good!!

[@jacobcarlson4010]

Hmmm. I’ll have to look into it.

[@JaxAngela]

Perfect example of excelllent thought leadership content. Mega props to you and your marketing team -- you all are definitely doing it right!

[@NewHVACGuide]

Wow thank you for that!

[@jims.3987]

Oh yea, not one negative talking point about the refrigerant the company he works for created. Didn't even mention the price increase

[@GeoFry3]

My first thought was, "So all their patents ran out again? Time to push new "better" refrigerants." R-32 does sound like a better solution. I'll have to read up on it. Personally, I'm fed up with 410a.

[@BNTNJA]

I have been using R32 mini split system for 6 years. No problems so far.

[@robertmott3533]

I have been very happy with my r32 system, it's a inverter style and I have saved a bunch of money on electric which has helped pay for the system

[@robertmott3533]

I have been considering r32 but the installers have little knowledge and are pushing the 410 units. I have seen very little r32 systems available on line researching a upgrade unit

[@williamsmith6]

Flammable 😅

[@cabbagesoup7879]

Good news. Have never liked working with 410

[@Niveous23]

It was supposed to be on the horizon a few years ago, and jumping into it a year ago, But here we are, still talking about it. Distributors still not sure when and where. It's pretty sad. I'm sure it'll happen, but sheesh.

[@rogerf3622]

Good video. The use of R32 makes perfect sense as most of the world is using it and it's cheap. Remember that R410a is composed of half R32 anyway. Homeowners and business owners should care about the refrigerant. The cost of R32 is cheaper compared to other proprietary refrigerants. When owners get the service bill, they will wish their system used R32.

[@NewHVACGuide]

That’s a very good point

[@1lakeatatime]

How cheap is it?

[@yeudoi66]

hype the consumers pays up the yang yang $$

[@robertmott3533]

The r32 system is a better system than r410. But it's only available in limited quantities in the US. Its not supposed to be coming on to the market till 2024. They are going to liquidate the r410 models first

[@yeudoi66]

really the higher pressure dont support that i dont believe

[@simengineering9183]

There aren't many units using the single r32 gas on the market now, so buying a new hvac with 410 still the best option, even knowing that after you spend 8k to 10k on a new system still will be obsolete and cannot be retrofitted.

[@Chainsaw600]

This month, the cost of R410A jumped $100 to $460/24 pounds in one month. Here we go again…….

[@bobboscarato1313]

Joshua I think EPA will come up with other refrigerants in a couple of years or so to add to the confusion and service companies will need a trailer to carry all the refrigerant tanks!😆

[@PHamster]

Basically another VHS vs Betamax if that happens

[@dankelley9361]

Hate the fact that another refrigerant is now becoming the NEW one. If the R32 variant becomes cheaper & more energy efficient, then kudos for that, as long as you don’t need to purchase new equipment to take advantage of this change, if so, then nobody gains, as the EPA changes to the greenies change without ANY significant change, except costs to the consumer.

[@imun1ty]

Would you happen to know if R32 runs cooler than the 410A? One of the reps told me that it actually runs closer to R22 temperatures at the evaporator coil, which is close to 35 degrees F.

[@brandon1566]

Need to bring back R-12

[@claygodfrey9207]

My 13 year old ac just went out Wednesday evening and we are looking at purchasing a whole new system. Do either of these refrigerate affect the inflation reduction act tax credit? Thank you.

[@optionstraderman]

I will likely have to replace my vintage 1999 R22 Trane XL1800 5 ton dual compressor home system in the near future and I like the idea of the R32 primarily for the reasons you outlined, but especially because the availability of the refrigerant should be plentiful and reasonably priced. I think the ridiculous price of R22 and others has a lot to do with the licensing, patents and greed, kind of like drugs. Once the patent expires, the pill drops from $150 each to $1.50 each, and the availability goes through the roof. I will be specifically looking for a new system that has R32 for sure.

[@Garth2011]

Waste of money until your existing system needs replaced due to no parts or not an option to fix.

[@elgringoec]

And then ten years from now... Companies are undoubtedly scrambling to come up with something new they can lobby the regulators into requiring. It's been working for them, taking plays from the drug trade playbook.

[@Garth2011]

@neal cassady Self employment is getting more difficult due to regulations and oversight by the Government. Cost of doing business is going up, not down as the Government pushes their agenda onto small businesses. Its ludicris some of the fees and requirements are yet they don't care how bad your employees are or how bad you service customers.

[@Garth2011]

@neal cassady For a days labor, thats a rip off for any residential job. My doctor doesn't make that kind of loot per day.

[@elgringoec]

@@Garth2011 It's good to see people realizing what the regulations, bureaucrats, red tape, and liabilities are doing to stifle productivity. It's because we have too many people who don't care, and would prefer to reign in others more industrious than themselves. We had a president once who ordered agencies to eliminate two regulations each time a new one was enacted. You think he got reelected? Those who promote industry are not big on handouts.

[@kossxtreeme]

Green is the new RED !!

[@donjones9300]

here we go again...

[@maxd4968]

It’s already happened US is behind

[@james10739]

If its more efficient and already part of r 410 and seems to be better in all ways why wasn't it used

[@ttt-de6sm]

Rheem 3 1/2 ton air handler and heat pump install cost 9,000 total? Is that the going rate for Virginia 2023?

[@joelballard4955]

I’m in the process of getting a new small hvac system for this little 800 sqft house. It will be a 14 seer ac with a 60000 Btu furnace. I’m getting quotes from all the local vendors. 6000-8000 in cost. If all pricing is the same I will probably get American standard because it’s way quieter than the other systems. Who makes the best value/quality of equipment

[@9852323]

Does all this apply to window units as well?

[@dannydaugherty527]

we bought a new system in 2019 and it was a nightmare the company that installed it was here 5-6 times they screwed up my furnace that I had to fix on my dime and the unit we had before it was 19 years old and the only service it got was when I cleaned it and that was like three time in the 19 years and the house was cooler and after the mess we had if we get air again it will be window air to avoid the BS we got

[@SEEMORE45]

I think that if they , being the powers at hand , are going to force the industry into this direction then they also need to standardize the type refrigerant that will be used ASAP . If they don't then the cost not only to the homeowner but to the service providers is going to get out of hand fast. The HVAC companies will have to have two trucks or vans for each service call to be able to have the right equipment on hand to service the unit, not knowing which type refrigerant they would be working with before hand .

[@oasisoflasvegas7925]

But where do I get it?

[@jayjudd6518]

Oil still the hydroscopic like 410a

[@HackAlko]

Very good video I come from Germany and for about 10 years now all the new split air conditioning systems have been with R32. Heat pumps (air-water heat pumps) are also split systems in that they are filled with R32. The alternative to R32 are heat pumps filled with R290, which are monoblocks. The heat exchanger from refrigerant to water is also located in the outdoor unit. In my experience, it is much easier to work with R32 than with R410a or the R22 replacement refrigerants. In terms of price, R32 is also significantly cheaper than R410a. The R32 bottle costs around €200, whereas R410a costs €350 and R410a will be significantly more expensive in the next few years.

[@LLS1100]

My concern is last year my system went out bought a new system and it has 410A what happens if something goes wrong and needs to be recharged well I have to buy a whole new system

[@robertmott3533]

Not foe a while but the r410 may not be cheap

[@viclotorto9488]

My new dehumidifier with R32 does not pull out as much water as my R410 . The system of measuring was changed in PINTS , the old 35 pint is now a 50 pint. The old machine was half the size , took up half the space , heated up the area better and filled up the drain a lot bucket a lot faster when it’s cold . The new refrigerant uses more electricity to achieve the same results. I think the energy Star efficient sticker on the new one is very misleading. Should say Now not as energy efficient

[@richarddalmau5295]

Where can i find ac units with R32.....thanks, good advice I need to get a 2 or 3 ton

[@robertmott3533]

The mini splits that size are on the market. You have to look

[@Erickscomp]

For a mini split with R32, can I still used a vacuum that was for the r-410a.

[@HonchHeado]

Yeah but change the oil.

[@akshya95]

R410a gas ac , can it be replaced with R32 gas ?

[@heronairconditioning5452]

What is the carbon footprint of r32

[@Mike-01234]

Where is R32 I haven't seen any for sale in the US

[@juanrodriguez-Hvac8]

What type of pressure does R32 run? Because I think that R410A run higher pressure the R22 the coil tend to leak more I just curious on what pressure R32 run

[@TheMinecraftACMan]

R-32 runs a few psi above R-410A, but not by much. R410A is a blend of R-32 and R-125 anyways...

[@dvdmex1978]

How do I check to see if my R410a system can accept R32?

[@NewHVACGuide]

It can't

[@benreber2277]

Where can you get the refrigerant from. None of my local places can handle it. I have all the equipment to handle it but can’t find a place that sells it or handles it themselves.

[@NewHVACGuide]

Some states haven't approved A2L refrigerants yet

[@danpszeniczny9664]

If r410a is not available for the older units does the unit need to be scrapped?

[@robertmott3533]

There is other refrigerants that they claim are compatible with r22. You just have to weigh the cost

[@Mrdubomb]

My old R22 unit is still going strong. Can R32 be used as a replacement?

[@NewHVACGuide]

No. There are some approved refrigerants for replacing R 22 but R 32 is not one of them.

[@JeremyHolovacs]

R-12 FTW

[@tedbell4416]

All day long.

[@janeshure]

I wonder how long it will take for r32 to be phased out.

[@tedbell4416]

I thought the same thing. Won't be long probably couple years then everyone is screwed again and out thousands of dollars. All about money. India and china won't change anything so what benefit is it to the environment. Zero

[@MarshallDudley]

When the patent runs out.

[@carcrasher89]

I just had my HVAC replace a few years ago. If it’s the 410 would we be able to have a vac and fill with 32 if we needed to recharge the system or would it require a full replacement.

[@NewHVACGuide]

I’ve got a video coming on this. But in short, R32 should not be put in a 410 system

[@chasebarrett3801]

A Real badass is still boiling R11 through his system.

[@firstlast1732]

I'm sure the contractors will tell you something completely different and try to push her towards a system you don't need that's under sized

[@keldon_champion]

Not that it affects me much because I'm more of a refrigeration guy but I am curious as to what alternatives there are to R-32 that are being seriously considered as a replacement for 410a. In the supermarket refrigeration world the new hotness is R-744 (CO2), R-448a, and R-449a.

[@robertmott3533]

That's commercial, that's a different ball game. We are in the residential neighborhood

[@keldon_champion]

@@robertmott3533 I'm still curious as to what other options there will be other than R32 or if that is being presented as the only option.

[@robertmott3533]

@keldon_champion I don't know there isn't a clear direction. I am just banking on the largest company that's leading the innovation movement rather than guessing which direction to go

[@robertmott3533]

Well r32 is not going to be available in the US until 2024 at this point. I am very happy with the r 32 mini split inverter ac i have and will buy a central unit when i can. The r32 system is a better system than r410. They have to many r 410 units to sell first. R32 is mainly in Japan, Australia, Asia. Europe is going a different refrigerant

[@Bryan-Hensley]

I thought they just had a meeting and banned the new R32 and/or r290 in residential housing because of flammability. A week or two ago..

[@NewHVACGuide]

Can you share a link?

[@Bryan-Hensley]

@@NewHVACGuide I'll try to find it. It was an article about the international organization that sets the rules for refrigerants. I wasn't 100 percent sure it applies to the USA, but probably does.

[@jfnotk255]

​@@NewHVACGuide : R290 is nothing else than propane. But the crazy side of it is, those people complaining now that it is explosive have a gas heating system with more or less endless supply from the cities gas net. 🙈 (Here in Europe)

[@jfnotk255]

@neal cassady : What bunch of safety do you mean? The old mild steel pipe or in the newer version plastic, that comes into the house? Simple copper pipes with press fittings, passing through the whole basement, through several walls? A single shut off valve? We had more than enough incidents with gas leakages. Most of them where discovered early enough. But not all (fortunately not our own house). We moved and have here now oil instead of gas. Feels better.

[@Bryan-Hensley]

@@NewHVACGuide this seems to be an European thing but I've yet to find that article. I haven't looked really hard though.. been too busy

[@CookiePepper]

Most likely R-32 will not be the R-410A replacement in the US for low GWP (< 750) refrigerant. Trane decided to use R-454B (68.9% R-32 + 31.1% R-1234yf) and other manufacturers are also excluding R-32. watch "Comparing refrigerants R454B vs R32" from Trane EMEA.

[@CookiePepper]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pX-xqWmtf9yWj68

[@NewHVACGuide]

Neither is going to be a permanent solution long-term. The GWP is only slightly lower for R454B than R32. Other countries are not even considering r454B as a solution. Although they are phasing out r32, these countries are looking CO2, r290, or r454c. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. something may be coming that we don’t even know about yet.

[@CookiePepper]

@@NewHVACGuide You will see (I already saw from inside).

[@justinwells8265]

Lol I’m still working on getting the last of the r22 units replaced and telling homeowners that 410A is the current replacement for that

[@NewHVACGuide]

Same here pal

[@jerrym1070]

What a challenging industry

[@tedbell4416]

The ridiculous epa

[@robertmott3533]

Well you are correct for the us market r32 supposed to be next year. I have a r32 mini split inverter and really like it

[@oussamaahkim3909]

I have r32 gas air conditioner exposed to sunlight is this dangerous ؟

[@robertmott3533]

Shouldn't be any different . Mine sets outside and works just fine

[@southbridgeforestHOA]

I want to replace my hvac system in my house since its almost 30 years old r22, but all the local hvac company's only quote R410 systems. When will residential R32 units even be for sale in the USA???

[@rpsmith]

Mine is 35 years old and has a slow leak and I don't want to replace it with a R410 system but no one in my area (Western Kansas) has any R32 System for sale. What a pain in the ass!

[@Trust_but_Verify]

@@rpsmith How much are they quoting per pound for R22 charge?

[@rpsmith]

@@Trust_but_Verify -- $50 a pound plus shipping online but retail is three time that or more!

[@MattFerguson26]

Any chance R-32 would be compatible with 410 units today? I'm about to buy two Mitsu units, and considering if should wait if they release with this R-32 in the next year or so.

[@TheMinecraftACMan]

Strictly speaking, manufacturer’s directions say not to retrofit R-410A to R-32. However, R-32 runs very similar pressures to R-410A, and it is compatible with the POE oil most 410A units use. Also, R-410a is a blend of R-32 and R-125 so... I would advise against retrofitting anything with a variable speed compressor, as those systems use EEVs and have to be programmed exactly. But a more traditional system it could potentially be a feasible option, though I’m not quite willing to outright recommend it yet.

[@robertmott3533]

I would look for r32 systems and pass on 410 totaly

[@chrislester3152]

Hey I wonder if u could talk more on the fact that i know people that think there will be a shortage or 410a But I have more dealers and now on the internet saying that people need to calm down because there will be 410 a around for 20 years at least at low cost so u seem to want everyone to think it’s gonna be gone in a couple years and ur brand will benefit

[@palco22]

I have a heat pump that uses 410a, installed some 7 years ago replacing my original system that was using R22. Now we are talking about this R32. My question is can we just replace the 410a refrigerant with R 32 ?

[@keldon_champion]

Probably not but I'm not as familiar with R-32 yet, personally though I wouldn't worry about R-32 until you're ready for a new system, even if you can retrofit a system with R-32 I don't think it would be a worthwhile investment. I'm more of a refrigeration guy, I do supermarket rack refrigeration and we don't retrofit a system for new gas without good reason to do so.

[@palco22]

@@keldon_champion Thanks for the reply. Since your video raised some questions I since asked around and I'm told it is only for systems specifically designed for R32. You can't retrofit refrigerants in heat pumps because apparently R32 operates at higher pressure than systems engineered for 410A. Sounds complicated so, now I know. Thanks again.

[@robertmott3533]

No you can't, different compressor and the operat at different pressures

[@joeschneider67]

But, are government will shut down R32 one day? Am wondering because DuPont will fight hard to keep the monopoly in refrigerant industry

[@michaelcovertfsr_dsg152]

R454B, even being a blend, is so close in glide, it is approved to be used a top-off....just as 32. Be clear about this....

[@DavidStrchld]

So from your video it seems like R32 is all love and roses, better for the environment, cheaper, more efficient, use less of it. Why hasn't the switch been made already? What are the downsides? (and yes as a second question, like so many others have asked can R32 be used in a 410a system?).

[@hkgonra]

one tiny downside is it's a flammable ticking time bomb.

[@maxd4968]

The switch has happened, just not in the US

[@sv1201]

The downside is only one: availability in the US.

[@jbranche8024]

Yep. US is always behind other countries. The US is archaic compared to other modern countries.

[@dickjohnson5979]

I just bought a new ge window ac that uses r32.

[@JesseDoesHVAC]

Put in 1000s of these r32 units here in Melbourne Australia. Can’t tell the difference to be honest

[@NewHVACGuide]

Is Australia going to phase out R32?

[@JesseDoesHVAC]

Not likely, there are a few hot water heat pump systems that are now using CO2 as the refrigerant, so unless that takes favour id say r32 is here for a while

[@NewHVACGuide]

Are the pressures similar to 410?

[@JesseDoesHVAC]

Pressures very similar to 410

[@simengineering9183]

What will happen to all the units running on 410a? everyone will need to replace their systems?

[@davidvuchetich3045]

I’m building a home the hvac guy is installing a daikin fit … can I request r 32?

[@robertmott3533]

The r32 isn't on the market yet the fit system is a good one I am waiting for the r32 system to come out before changing

[@joeschneider67]

To me the solution should be that all unit brands comes with R32 then all that BS 454 slightly flammable refrigerant

[@Sam-om8ph]

Can 410a be replaced with 32?

[@NewHVACGuide]

No

[@user-bs1or3wc6r]

Question: If R32 is so much superior to R410A and it is made from R32 to start with then why pray tell did they make the blend of R410A instead of just using R32 to start with??

[@NewHVACGuide]

Flammability

[@user-bs1or3wc6r]

Thank you! Your answer is good and sounds logical. However, since R32 proponents brag about all of it's superior single base coolant properties are over the blend of R410A that uses R32 as a base and how much better for the environment and how it is safe and only slightly flammable, you would think that the EPA would have demanded R32 over R410A to begin with. Instead of being logical to start with, now they are kicking R410A to the curb and now endorsing R32 as an approved refrigerant. So now having a more environmentally friendly R32 Refrigerant is approved but with some flammability to be accepted. The folks in charge at the EPA are a fickle bunch indeed! @@NewHVACGuide

[@anthony10370]

Interesting the comment I replied to seems to have been deleted. I would like to know the cost and availability of r32. As of this moment I cannot find a single supplier in the US that has it in stock. I am 608 certified. If anyone knows where to get some let me know. Also I have been hearing about high compressor discharge temps burning up the oil faster. I would like to know more about compressor longevity. Is it going to last 25 years like an R410a system?

[@robertmott3533]

From what I read it was the r410 that had thermo breakdown not the r32 they don't seem to be having the issuse with r32 because the operating pressures are different

[@carllungwitz5171]

What is the GWP of R32?, is it A2L? Or A3.

[@realSamAndrew]

It's a2l and the gwp can be found with an easy G search.

[@wiscofun3028]

Can I legally buy r32 on the open market without a license like 410a? If not that sucks.

[@stevee7774]

R32 is an HFC refrigerant, so you will definitely need EPA certification to purchase it.

[@robertmott3533]

Last I checked , no restrictions yet

[@veijolalli326]

R1270 would have been even better refrigerant. It may be too cheap thou.

[@RapidRepair]

I can’t keep up with all the a/c changes 😂

[@NewHVACGuide]

That's what I'm here for :-)

[@WallaceRoseVincent]

It's called a tax. Every few years the epa changes the refrigerant, you have to buy a new system. Like we are saving the world or the ozone? Yeah right! Like I can't go to Mexico or China and buy millions of pounds of good ole R12.

[@tedbell4416]

​@@WallaceRoseVincentR12 > the rest

[@tedbell4416]

​@@WallaceRoseVincentexactly right

[@marvingarcia8982]

One thing to know is that this is NOT a decision made by the air HVAC/R equipment manufacturer the decision is made by the EPA. Long time ago we had refrigerants like R12 wich is ozone depleting and then it made a hole in the ozone layer. Well EPA said we have to make refrigerants that are less depleting an the famous R22 came out. Then EPA said we have to move to non ozone depleting refrigerants and R410A was introduced. The non ozone depleting have a high GLOBAL WARMING POTENTIAL and now we are moving to a NON OZONE DEPLETING WITH LOW GWP..and thats how we have R32 and 454B in new equipment now. This is the reason why something that was compliant yesterday is not today. We will see new refrigerants in the future for sure.

[@patmcbride9853]

My sister needs to have an expansion valve replaced on her heat pump and it will cost $1k just to recharge the system. It's ridiculous, and freon was never destroying the ozone layer.

[@Arctic513]

Can my existing R410a use R32?

[@realSamAndrew]

To my understanding, no. Which is ironic since 410a is just r32 and r125 blended 50/50.

[@robertmott3533]

No different pressures

[@ronstill3868]

Most window units have 32 in them

[@maxd4968]

All units in Australia under 20kw pretty much all have r32 now.

[@robertmott3533]

Yes but not the US yet

[@ronstill3868]

@robertmott3533 yes window units in the USA are coming with r32 and all ductless are coming with r32 when they rub m rub or of 410a units that is. I have five r32 mini splits in stock for jobs. They need to just make the change and be done with 410a

[@robertmott3533]

@ronstill3868 yes i have been watching for the change. Have a r32 mini split inverter system now, i am very happy with it. Been looking for a central unit, been told next year. Daikin has a Fit r410 system, just waiting to buy it until they change to to r32

[@ronstill3868]

@robertmott3533 my old r22 system is still go Going strong. Waiting do r32 to change it.

[@jme36053]

Daiken propaganda? I’d like to hear a more informed discussion amongst HVAC techs on which refrigerant to replace R410a is best, and more importantly, why.

[@maxd4968]

I mean everywhere else is using r32 idk why the us isn’t already

[@robertmott3533]

Epa for on reason, say what you will. Daikin is one of the largest ac companies in the world and have pioneered r32 in Asia. I would suggest they know a little bit about this

[@Vaseemm]

Can you convert 410a system to R32?

[@chrismemphis8062]

nope

[@robertmott3533]

Well it depends, they claim the only difference in the systems is the compressor. But that's most the cost of any system

[@stevemurzyn9711]

R-32 should have been implemented long ago.

[@bobboscarato1313]

Has been used in other countries but EPA wanted more testing.-

[@rjs9006]

how do the pressures compare between r-32 & 410A?

[@NewHVACGuide]

Very close

[@rjs9006]

@@NewHVACGuide that's terrible- they need to bring down the pressure. 22 was the best. I don't believe the lies about the atmosphere

[@NewHVACGuide]

@@rjs9006 To be honest, I haven't laid hands on R32 yet... So everything is here say so far. But a friend of mine works in the UK where they've had R32 for year and said it's comparable. Maybe slightly less

[@Chainsaw600]

@@rjs9006 Exactly. 220;221. Whatever it takes for these chem manufacturers to make money. R22 was just fine and we all know it.

[@TheGhettoLobster]

​@@Chainsaw600 r22s debut was presented as an environmentally friendly refrigerant to R12. The whole thing is just a hoax that they keep repeating and people keep failing for it thinking they will be saving the whales by putting in a new refrigerant in grandmas house

[@Freonleon]

R32 won’t be out till 2025, in our equipment here r134a isn’t a blend and is long number. R32 is being phased out in Europe now, and I do refer and hvac and I have 4-5 jugs of different flavors and if you keep a semi clean truck holding on to a few different bottles. And when I die everything will be co2, also with new flavors only the pressure changes if your good at your job you know that the saturation temps is what you should be looking at.

[@dwj7386]

R470A may be future. R32 has too many dangers when mixed with heat strip or furnace.

[@tedbell4416]

Yeah heat strips with flammable refrigerant sounds like kaboom

[@maxd4968]

Been using it in Australia for almost a decade no one has had a issue yet

[@HSRA-hg9gc]

Every time they change, it costs more!

[@yolo_burrito]

Imagine if there was a really cheap and effective refrigerant that has basically zero GWP. Maybe we’ll call it R600.

[@williambrennan5701]

In the real world this is going to cause THREE absolutely huge problems. ONE , SAFETY R410A and r32 pressures are almost completely identical we're talking less than a two psi difference basically negligible. R410A and R32 are both compatible with the same oils. So what's actually going to happen in the real world is people are going to put whatever's cheapest in. As they phase out R420a it will become more expensive making R32 cheaper. and by they I mean, Joe blow air conditioning service . I'm not even going to debate this with people because I know it's going to happen cuz it's already happening. many installers I've talked to at work that say that they dump MO99 and other R22 replacement gases in with the existing R22 and just top them off all the time. When it's major repair time and you have to replace all the refrigerant you're definitely going to use whatever's cheaper. which leads me to problem number TWO . CROSS CONTAMINATION of recovered refrigerants. There is no on-site real world way to tell what kind of refrigerant you're actually recovering. You can when there is a large pressure difference but R410A and R32 are almost identical and well within the air range of a gauge set. It doesn't have to be everyone It can just be one in 10 companies that are putting R32 in R410A systems. or like right now I can go on eBay and buy all the R410A I want but you can't find R32 anywhere. I personally have done this already. My friend had a mini split They ordered online It leaked due to a poor fitting It came factory with R32 and I filled it with R410A and wrote with a sharpie on it. I'm sure it'll fade but regardless this situation, regardless of intent or good intentions will eventually contaminate the supply of recovered refrigerant. besides the increased flammability issue you will have by having a way too high percentage of R32 in what the installer thinks he's putting in 410A You will also have the opposite problem when the installer believes he is putting in recycled R32 when he's actually putting in recycled R410A as it's been established here in this video are 410A is less efficient than R32 so your system's not going to work as good once you get it refilled with the incorrect refrigerant.The mini split that I fixed was cold but it wasn't hurt your hand cold like it used to be so it will still cool the camper just fine but it's going to run more and cost the owner more electricity to make it happen.... we're on to problem number 3. EQUIPMENT. The equipment used to recover R32 and store it is going to have to be rated for flammable refrigerant. It will require its own recovery cylinders designed for its use. This doesn't seem like that big of a deal. However in the real world it actually will be. I personally have just ran into a situation where I was recovering for 10A and a brand new recovery tank and for some reason some screw up at some factory It started venting gas at $350 PSI So today in 2023 they're still using R22 rated parts in brand new recovery tanks some of the old parts today 13 years after R22 was phased out are still making its way into brand new recovery tanks. So I'm recovering from a machine and I'm shooting out a trail of refrigerant 4 ft out of the back of this cylinder because it got too hot not too hot for 410A but too hot for R22 What if that was flammable gas instead This is not some maybe kind of or made up situation This was like 2 weeks ago at work...... What if it happened inside the work van. according to the R32 pressure chart if you were to accidentally put R32 in a R22 recovery cylinder the emergency valve would pop as low as 105°. So you go out to your van open the door on a hot summer Florida afternoon after lunch and your van is completely filled with flammable gas...... Going to be a lot of problems. This is not Europe The UK Japan what have you. This is the United States. It's like the wild wild west of refrigeration.. Only now instead of making people's air conditioners work poorly people are going to start with this foolishness and start blowing things up...... other than those things I agree R32 is the way to go given the options🤣😂

[@NewHVACGuide]

You’ve brought up some great points. Maybe we can do a show together 🙂

[@williambrennan5701]

@@NewHVACGuide ha ha yeah call it real world a/c . Some crazy stuff out there for sure, but if it works whatever.

[@NewHVACGuide]

Haha. Send me an email and let’s talk

[@Garth2011]

Here is the big problem when it comes down to the overall impact for "the planet". For a homeowner the cost of HVAC has to make sense, in its efficiency, cost to operate and initital cost to install. When the DOE/EPA decides its time to get "cleaner" and makes all of these changes since the day of R12, the cost to move up from an existing and working HVAC doesn't make any financial sense nor do the added benefits per home. However, from the views of the EPA/DOE, the small benefits that are financially NOT feasible to one homeowner are looked upon as a whole, meaning the entire USA or an entire state population of HVAC's. When you add those up, there is a benefit in being "clean" however they ignore the cost of this benefit. Those same groups are doing the same thing with energy production such as wind mill generators that are very expensive, have environmental concerns, do not produce energy 24x7 and have high maintenance costs. Yet they push these ideas without any concern for the costs being weighed for the actual net benefits overall. The public are being forced to spend their money on energy products that have counter values from the get go. Some areas in the USA benefit from heat pumps, some don't and some benefit from natural gas while some don't or don't have access to it yet the feds and the states are forcing the public to spend extra amounts of money, in some cases its 8 times more, to operate new HVAC systems plus the cost of being forced to replace older systems with new "approved" systems when they are at the end of their life. Its as if the DOE/EPA wants their views to take hold overnight vs. performed over the next decade or two like it has been for decades. People are being robbed of their money and many of them are retired which means they have to use their savings vs. income to meet these standards way too soon to make any sense. R32 has one benefit in my opinion, its efficiency if that is true. The rest of those "benefits" on their list are mostly hogwash reasons. Also, when these experts suggest a new refrigerant is better than an older or existing one, they need to put up a chart and show us how much better it is compared to R12 or R22 and at the prices of those refrigerants when they were the norm in HVAC.

[@realSamAndrew]

R22 has an ODP of 0.05 and a GWP lower than 410a. The conversation should be over right there.

[@jazzfreek54]

Yep. The gov't wants all your money so they can control the population better. Own nothing & be happy!

[@robertmott3533]

Well evidently you have done the research. There is charts showing environmental impact on each refrigerant. If it's correct they have made a improvement. The new r32 system is far better in many ways than the older systems.

[@Garth2011]

@@robertmott3533 Maybe however, R32 is flammable ! High hazard risk if there's a leak

[@robertmott3533]

You should research flammability on r32. It's not what your thinking. Yes it will burn. But it's not explosive if you have a leak. Gasoline is more volatile and it's carried around in a plastic jug.

[@jims.3987]

Like the 30% projected price increase on equipment? Nobody gives a crap about GWP potential we care about a 30% increase in our costs

[@user-wg6fw4ou1b]

Here's why, money. people in the business love this it's a cash maker.

[@NewHVACGuide]

I haven’t met too many techs that love it. But maybe they will

[@apprenticephil649]

No thanks, flammable refrigerant sitting above a furnace? What could go wrong? 😂

[@tedbell4416]

They bumbling epa will figure that out 2 years in then phase R32 out

[@Deaftractor]

I have window AC R-32 and R-410 and R-22 look when all compressor running all high PSI show on label R-32 580 psi, R-410 560psi, R-22 300 psi. So that 560psi and 580 psi still high temperature to blow hot air out into air sky make more heat up rise outside temperature sky rocket. CNG for vehicles is more hot air than regular gasoline. What all about the fussy???

[@jims.3987]

I am going to take my entire 401k and buy a truckload of R410a and hang onto it for 5 years and then start selling it off on marketplace and get richhhh bishhhhh. LOL

[@heronairconditioning5452]

Janitrol Remember them

[@MarshallDudley]

This makes no sense. R32 is better than 410a in every respect. They say it is a newer refrigerant than 410a, yet 410a has r32 in it so it can't be newer. Why was 410a ever used at all if one of the components in it is better all the way around?

[@NewHVACGuide]

Flammability

[@dequavisjones4869]

O yeah well I use r69 so your magical sparkling unicorn fart R32 is outdated already lol

[@stevee7774]

That’s one special unicorn fart right there! 😂

[@HonchHeado]

Why? I know why just like every time they have changed these chemicals it started with hfc's in aerosol cans its to make money for dupont and dow chemicals that is why. If we still just used freon their stocks wouldn't have increased so much. They will change it again and again to increase their stock price. And if not so flammable why already here the regs are R32 lines can not be flared in any internal structure they must be braised its illegal? External can be flared but not internal. Because think if you run lines through a wall and the flare has a slow leak the pressure builds up inside the wall and when some light switch or contactor gives a spark BANNNNNNNNNNGGGG!

[@EvermontKing]

R32 is 375 for 20 pounds

[@NewHVACGuide]

Where are you located? Is about $100 less than that in Virginia