Newsmaker: Arguments for and against school choice

[@ac27934]

Thanks for hosting two different perspectives on this. Not much of that happening elsewhere right now.

[@mcawesomest1]

My son made it to 7th grade in public school and couldn’t spell at even a kindergarten level. ESA for private special education school was a life changer. He is graduating in May… Can read, write, spell, is in Physics, and is excited to learn a trade. He would have been another statistic of the failing school system.

[@markraftis]

@mcawesomest1 not surprised. Parents take your kids out of public schools.

[@catztruck929]

Kids failing in school says a lot about the parents too.

[@BEG943]

That’s your fault lmao how is your kid not being capable anybody’s fault but the parents?

[@lydiahicks7290]

This has been a very informative debate. I appreciate the civility. I know there's always a difference between views and facts that back up each. These ladies and moderator handled the discussion very well. Good things to think about.

[@fantasdeck]

The end of this debate was that SOS couldn't even get enough signatures to get it on a ballot. That wasn't some accident. Parents didn't want it, so they didn't sign petitions for it.

[@lorysipel6823]

How much goes to administration? Not to the teacher who are teaching. Be transparent.

[@kwasiopoku8589]

I never get the point of those against school choice. Especially when they argue that it siphons money from Public schools. Take the Charter School approach for example. In Texas, the state spends an average of $8000 on per capita on a Charter School student and $13,000 per capita on a traditional public school student. So is the argument that traditional public schools still need more money on a student? If you cannot achieve what you must with 5k more, what more do you need. It is not more money that will make the public schools better. It is efficiency. Charter Schools are doing better with less

[@mcawesomest1]

What many don’t know is ESA is a huge help for Foster Kids, Special Education for Children with Disabilities, and for Kids in Low Income F-Rated dangerous schools. 70% of Black teachers and Family support ESA

[@timothymccarthy8044]

School choice is a win win for everybody, except teacher's unions that stand to lose dues from fewer union teachers.

[@inessanchez1]

No way, best societies and education in the world are the ones whose goverment improve public schools to the point that the private group wants to be in it.

[@jenn8470]

The words government and improving on the same sentence is just asinine. The government is not helping schools at all and making them worse. Get the government out of school.

[@troywest7045]

Cool, as long as it's not a religious school. If it is, you're paying all that yourself.

[@BigTao]

Coffee makers are useful in culinary elective classes

[@Kevin-wj4ed]

Indiana has it. Best to ever happen!!!!!

[@lorysipel6823]

A charter school does have to except the student. They're a public school. And don't charge $15,000 per student.

[@mcawesomest1]

You are correct! It’s a public school just under a different umbrella and they still have follow all the same rules.

[@Wiseguy3hh]

I love the debate format, but a more balanced talking time is required for fairness.

[@engineclinic]

That school teacher wants more money!!

[@laurend2419]

Of course she does. As a teacher who is now expected to toilet train children, be their therapist in times of crisis, teach reading and writing, solve every peer conflict and wrangle 30 children at a time, I also want to make enough to live independently in a one bedroom apartment. But I don’t, and I can’t! I think every profession would like a livable wage, especially ones that serve vulnerable parts of the community, like children. Should we all go into sales and let the nation rot because we can’t pay living wages to crucial jobs? Lol

[@engineclinic]

@@laurend2419 a teacher is not expected to toilet train children nor be their therapist. It's just something narcissistic teachers have taken on because it makes them feel powerful. We would all like more money. When I was in the military I would have liked more money but I never spoke of it because I didn't serve to make money but rather because I deemed it the right thing to do to donate a portion of my life for the betterment of my country. If a school teacher is there for the money instead of the job then they should probably quit and take a different job and let people who actually care about the job of education do the teaching. The thing about money is that if money is your number one goal you can never have enough. You will always want more. If you put money before children then you shouldn't be a teacher and that's what the female in the video is doing. Shame on her.

[@natanaeldamian2192]

​@engineclinic so teachers deserve to live paycheck to paycheck and to struggle with basic necessities?

[@engineclinic]

@@natanaeldamian2192 no! They should be able to divide between them all your worldly possessions.

[@natanaeldamian2192]

@engineclinic I think you as a "christian" deserve to be reminded of Jesus words: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

[@GoldiLoxxxxx]

Parents already have the choice, it’s already in place. Second if vouchers are passed there won’t actually a choice for parents they would give up the choice to the schools. The school will have the power to say we don’t accept vouchers, or our enrollment is full, or we don’t support special needs, etc etc etc. it’s public funding for the privatization of oubclic schools. It’s wrong. People need to get educated of this topic before voting.

[@davidforbes2366]

If you have no children in school, using your logic is you shouldn’t have to pay the taxes for schools.

[@kwasiopoku8589]

I hope those who are against School Choice are aware that there is already Choice in the School System. It's a choice based on income. Wealthy people can afford to live in expensive neighborhoods that have far better schools. Poorer people who dont have a choice but have to settle in poorer zip codes are stuck with the bad schools and cannot choose a school outside of that bad zone. That is choice based on class. Why not create a way in which poorer people can choose schools outside of their zones through vouchers to even private schools

[@lorysipel6823]

Shouldn't government schools have that same contract as charter schools to make sure the students succeed?

[@lorysipel6823]

Charter school children bring in their own supplies.

[@troywest7045]

Then they also don't need tax dollars for school.

[@lorysipel6823]

@@troywest7045 it's a public school so ya, they do.

[@lisalisa2375]

SOS lady is listing items that were approved by Hoffman, our prior superintendent, who WANTED to undermine the program. She's being manipulative, implying that people under Horne approved those items on the $22m day. Not only did this not occur on that day, it wasn't even under the current administration. I'm willing to listen to both sides, but when you're immediately disingenuous, your whole perspective is just as immediately dismissed as b.s.

[@lisalisa2375]

Why don't they offer context for the "coffee maker?" Was this for a special needs child? Special needs children are entitled to vocational training, and are often limited on the types of vocations that they have the cognitive ability to pursue. So, it's wrong for a developmentally disabled student with an ESA to have vocational training that would allow them to pursue employment as a barista?

[@lisalisa2375]

What about rural areas, where there are no other viable options for participation in open enrollment? Those children don't matter? They shouldn't have ANY choices?

[@NoWaySmokey8889]

@@lisalisa2375this will give incentives for private schools to open in rural areas. Not to mention give the parents in rural areas homeschool options

[@lorysipel6823]

Lisa Graham Keegan made a huge point. Where does the $$$ go. Accountability!

[@lorysipel6823]

Let the $$$ follow the student.

[@20mik20]

Shout out to my sate of Utah 😁

[@lug.5329]

the sate of Utah seems sad

[@20mik20]

@@lug.5329 sad?

[@lug.5329]

@@20mik20 yes, it's a sate.

[@20mik20]

@@lug.5329 intresting

[@pdm4pdm4]

There are many people who can barely afford it, yet send their children to christian schools..

[@troywest7045]

Good for them, private religious schools should never receive tax payer assistance.

[@EarlHayward]

Here is an idea, those public schools with a budgeted deficit should just spend less money… When you lose students, you should lose teachers as well.. Don’t have enough students for a specific grade level, switch to a hybrid Montessori method like charter schools general do… Oh, and maybe more parents want to homeschool because of subjects being taught in schools are not as important as the core math, reading, wiring, history, and science classes…

[@No-ez2ph]

"Normal" child. Nice.

[@markraftis]

School choice, end the monopoly of government schools. Give me a break you do not care about students.

[@troywest7045]

Ok, All Schools are private and citizens don't have to pay taxes for education. So now the parents have to pay for a private school, all of it. No vouchers or anything, works for me!

[@caromartinez4501]

The news

[@lug.5329]

Why not also have police choice?

[@mcawesomest1]

You do. You can call a crisis help line instead of the police. The defund the police movement wants social workers with guns. I’m sorry what is the difference? Real life event in my neighborhood: a guy was trying to murder his wife and 4 children because she filed divorce. She had barricaded herself and children in their bedroom placing every piece of furniture against the door and called the police. He decides to place traps, guns and ammo strategically throughout his home so when the cops come he can take them out. He goes to the 2nd story of his home and army crawls out on his front balcony with multiple guns and creeps up over the side of the rail to unload his gun on the 10 police officers standing on the driveway and in his front yard. He gets one round off that misses as he is shot by a SWAT Sniper set up on a roof 2 houses over. The officers that almost died… one had just had his 1st baby that week, another was a few days from retirement and what I saw afterwards were a group of men that were shaken by the fact they were literally seconds from death. Do you want a social worker or a cop in this instance?

[@lug.5329]

@@mcawesomest1 why not have a publicly funded private police also?

[@mcawesomest1]

Have you ever had a family member that was unhinged or mentally ill but will not get any treatment? Have you ever tried to calm them down or talk sense to them? Because you can talk common sense to people who aren’t mentally capable of operating in reality. And you can’t force those people to get help. Believe me I’ve tried and about all you can do is a 72 hour hold and when this unstable mentally ill person is released, who the heck do you think they are going to be angry at?

[@dannedifyoudo]

Great convo. The leftist won.