Nice Conversation with a Christian

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[@TheWileGuy]

"You don't see animals torture other animals for fun." **House cat has left the chat**

[@marasmusine]

Orcas and baby seals. What is the Christian explanation?

[@TheWileGuy]

@@marasmusine Many Christians tell me it's because of the of two nudists and a fruit tree or something. I dunno, sounded a bit strange to me.

[@marasmusine]

@@TheWileGuy Did an orca eat the fruit as well? Did the garden have a big pond :)

[@TheWileGuy]

@@marasmusine Nah, they say a wizard got angry at the nudists and decided to adjust life's difficulty setting from peaceful to hardcore.

[@DomoSensei]

Even ducks do a madness it’s even worse when you know they are monogamous and have partners for life

[@ianchisholm5756]

So...God gave us science so that we could draw nearer to him, but science gives us false information and now we're less likely to believe in him. Well played, God.

[@planetpeterson2824]

Heaven must be crowded, he doesn’t want anyone else getting in

[@Diviance]

@@planetpeterson2824 Well that can't be the reason, the bible is clear that nobody is in heaven or hell until "Judgement Day" after the second coming. Whenever that is. So everyone is just chilling in some endless purgatory until some nebulous time in the future. What a horror show.

[@-Monad-]

​@@Diviance to be super specific, the bible says that heaven is only for God and the angels. For the rest of us, God will build New Jerusalem, a cube-shaped city made of pure gold, right here on earth. Good luck trying to explain that to a Christian though 😂

[@Diviance]

@@-Monad- Yeah, if you are going to go into even deeper detail, that is accurate. And not just a cube of gold... a cube of gold where each side is 350 miles in length. It also describes this _city_ as the wife of Jesus... It is a weird book, man. Weird book. We get in trouble if we marry the same sex, but Jesus is out here marrying an actual city.

[@Metaljacket420]

God creating a young universe with an extensive fossil record, and light already in transit from distant stars, it's kind of like someone forging a fake DaVinci painting and trying to make it look old.

[@gryph01]

Not to mention that he cited Fortnite.....

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Not only that, God would have to create light in transit from distant stars with the false appearance of being bent by massive gravity wells Encountered along the way. God also has to create fake fossil coral reefs With growth patterns corresponding to a twenty three hour day, Matching predictions from paleontologists that earth's rotation is slowing over Long eons. If this God expects me to believe the Rib story, then he's launching a Sting operation on his own creation.

[@Bunny99s]

Right, but there are literally uncountably many thing that need to be faked. We know and understand how erosion works because we can observe it right now. The same is for how trees grow, how specied evolve, how radioactive material decay, etc... So since we see countless things that all point towards an "old earth", every single of those details would need to be deliberately faked to look like it's old- I don't get how that dude can say that this is not dishonest. Your DaVinci painting example would mean he treated every bit of paint with probably countless of procedures to not only make the paint look old, but to actually have the same chemical structure and actually being identical to an old painting. So a true perfect forgery that is literally impossible to discover.

[@gowdsake7103]

Cover it in tea

[@LisaAnn777]

​@@gowdsake7103Tea is disgusting. Nobody should drink that stuff. 🇺🇸

[@darkerrorcode]

I just cannot fathom why god would create a universe and earth with a vast amount of evidence to suggest its 13.7 billion years old only to then create a book, suggest the universe is 7000 years old and tell people that if you don't believe in god you'll go to hell if you don't repent for your sins

[@darkerrorcode]

"This apple is red" "Um, no it isn't" "Yes it is, now worship me"

[@Extraterrestrial-Bilu]

Same with flat earthers. Either everything is at it seems and we live on a globe and their interpretation of bible means god is lying, or Earth is flat and God created this complicated Matrix to make sure Globe is the only shape we could perceive, making God a liar again.

[@bradleyson]

And then never show up to clarify any of it. Imagine a god watching all this science leading people to misunderstand the creation, and never once stepping in to explain. The god either doesn’t exist or is a massive asshole

[@LisaAnn777]

Ahh but you're forgetting one very important thing! God works in dilerious ways!

[@drg8687]

This guy literally said we don't know if Moses wrote a book??!?!?! Moses never existed!

[@celiand2618]

Jews tend to know but not many christians, actually.

[@ThorsDecree]

@@celiand2618 Every time I point this out to a bog-standard Christian (mostly Southern Baptist evangelical types around here) they act like it's some kind of impossible claim and sometimes even go so far as to outright accuse me of lying intentionally. They don't even follow up when I give them links to actual studies. It's like academia is toxic to them or --- oh, wait, it _is_ lol.

[@celiand2618]

I have muslims and catholics around, mostly. And a few witnesses and an evangelist family. They believe Exodus happened. And THE ONE TIME I went to the jewish area in Paris and had a chat with a rabbi, because we wanted to enquire about the lore and all, he was like "look, it may not have happened, but that is not important, the important things are the commandements." Go figure. For some reason I also met a catholic priest when I was younger who was amongst the nice one who had the same relativism : "The important part is not the characters, it's the message." That priest and that rabbi were the kind of people that would have kept me in some abrahamic faith... IF I did not really want to know if, to quote Aron Ra, "there is a there there." Not believe. Know.

[@j.knight9335]

@@ThorsDecree Protestants aren't Christians. You're arguing against a straw man.

[@ThorsDecree]

@@j.knight9335 There's no such thing as a "true Christian" according to Christians in general, it would seem. Yet when it comes to comparing their numbers to Islam, the Protestants and the Catholics gladly share a slice of the pie chart lol. At least they both agree that Mormons aren't part of the club, huh? So of course, being a somewhat reasonable yet still very trusting 7-year-old indoctrinated into the Baptist cult back in the day, I started thinking about the number of churches that my family said weren't the right _kind_ of Christian and did some back-of-the-envelope 7-year-old number crunching... ...and realized I was almost certainly screwed. Cue childhood existential crisis for no reason beyond adults' superstitions lol.

[@cajohnson130]

Allegedly the most important thing in existence and we need to rely on interpretation of texts. No way to know which is correct. What kind of god would create this system?

[@ChickenHunter08]

Every single thing (except going to space) this guy listed that makes humans unique happens in the animal kingdom. Monogamy, torture, empathy, music. All can be found in animals. Seems like a nice guy, makes me sad he stopped learning about the world.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

he is not correct about animal "perversion." There are a lot of animals that kill for fun. Notably, cats.

[@gowdsake7103]

Did he actually say everyone knows right from wrong. Did he say animals do not have morality. Has he never seen a cat playing with prey. All he has is belief

[@nicholasbanton]

This poor dude is another casualty of a belief system rooted in magical thinking and untestable assertions. In this universe, strongly held beliefs are deemed as valuable as proven facts, where mere possibility holds equal weight to established truth.

[@tyemaddog]

Which can easily be swung back on you. The probability of some type of creator god is not 0%.

[@nicholasbanton]

@tyemaddog Agreed 100% However the flaw in your argument is to pressume I take absolute positions. Specifically, on a god. I take a probabilistic approach to truth claims. I still appreciate your reading and replying to my response. The difference is that the interlocutor presented his case (to which I responded), whereas you don't know my positions. Feel free to ask next time.

[@Diviance]

@@tyemaddog I might argue that until a proposition is shown to be possible... the probability should be assumed to be 0%.

[@DanielTate-wt9jt]

At 18:12 he says he has a son.and you can hear his baby in the background. Now, according to his beliefs, his son is a sinner and deserves to die for nothing more than being born. As a Christian, he has to believe human beings are sinners, and as the bible says, "the wages of sin is death." So he has to believe his baby is a sinner and deserves to die. And he has to believe his child deserves to die unless his child accepts Jesus at some point in his life. God wants him to think of his own child as a diseased being that deserves death unless he accepts Jesus. This is the very reason why Chistian parents try to get their children to become Chistians. Imagine someone walked up to you and told you "Your baby is sick and deserves death." How would you think and feel about that person? Would you praise and worship that person? Also God is suppose to be "our father" but he think of all his children as diseased and deserving death? Isnt this Christian bothered that his heaven father thinks of his children as diseased and deserving of death? Imagine your father telling you "Son I love you but you're diseased and deserve to die." And whats worse is were all diseased because God decided to make the disease of sin inheritable. Something thats passed on. God is the one that made it that way. He could have made each person born with a clean slate. Yet he makes them inherit sin. He made it so sin would be passed on. So the disease he says we have, HE'S responsible for us having. And the "deserving of death" part is a completely arbitrary consequence he came up with. He could have made it so "the wages of sin is having all your nose hair ripped out simultaneously." God makes the rules right? But there's no reason to make the wages of sin death instead of something else. It's up to him. He just arbitrarily chose death. So God arbitrarily decides his children deserve to die for a disease he forced on them and they have no choice in having. What a loving father! Why would anyone worship such a monster of a Father?

[@ritchie6162]

“God did it” is not a rational excuse to discard legions of scientific evidence that points towards a different conclusion. It’s intellectually dishonest to accept scientific theories only if they don’t contradict a god claim, but all other evidence can’t be accepted if they do contradict.

[@doranku]

If we really "know right from wrong", why does what is right and what is wrong change over time and environment/cultures? 21:30 you dont' see animals purposely torture other animals Has he never seen a cat?

[@CeezGeez]

nothing can exist outside of time

[@alkaline8608]

Why should your emotions being chemicals in your brain make them any less valid? I never get that. What else is it supposed to be?

[@Detson404]

Right? Whether it works by chemicals, “spirit-stuff,” or clockwork, there’s still some kind of process going on.

[@CleoHarperReturns]

Well, I'm convinced. Bring me to Jesus! Jokes aside, this was a really nice kid. If he were the christian norm and not the exception -- well, the world would be a much calmer, less violent place honestly. I'd be happy to share space with christians like him, despite our different beliefs. Unfortunately the ones around me have gone freaking nuts. 17:12 This is *exactly* what my SiL believes. We can barely stand to be in the same room together. I'm a little ashamed to admit there have been some alcohol-fueled (verbal) battles. Although I'm pretty sure if my brother weren't there she certainly would have thrown a swing or two. I've seen that woman's head split open and fire shoot out.

[@nicksykes4575]

This guys beliefs are all over the place, he doesn't know whether the Earths 6,000 or 4.5 billion years old. Yet if we take the older estimate, and Adam and Eve were "created" at the same time as the Earth, that would mean there were humans wandering around on a lump of molten rock 4.5 billion years ago.

[@isaacbruner65]

This caller argued that Native Americans would still go to heaven if they never heard about Jesus. If people who have never heard of Jesus still go to heaven, then why do missionaries exist? What about churches and Sunday schools? Wouldn't it be cruel to teach children about Jesus, if that leaves open the possibility that they could reject that knowledge and doom themselves to eternal torment?

[@robertcarlyle6102]

"If love is just chemicals in your mind, it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things... I just CANNOT accept that as reality" As if you, as the main character, are entitled to have your personal emotions mean something "in the grand scheme of things". As if your personal indignation makes reality obey your preferences. Your loves, hates, desires, opinions, etc. won't matter after the heat death of the universe. Sorry if that makes you feel sad, but... your emotions don't dictate reality.

[@ethangross6412]

animals 100% torture other animals, dolphins, cats, bugs, different types of rodents, LOTS do this

[@yaritthekid]

I thought u were being ironic with the title lmao

[@virilian]

There's no difference between God creating the earth 6000 years ago, or yesterday, no explanatory power

[@Diviance]

Young Earth Creationism is just a Christian version of Last Thursdayism.

[@timothyt2981]

monogamy is not the default state of humans.

[@Diviance]

Yeah, our whole concept of marriage flies in the face of our nature.

[@figmentoffairies]

How do you determine that?

[@figmentoffairies]

​@@Diviancehow do you determine our nature in this way when you factor in perspective bias

[@Diviance]

@@figmentoffairies Our human history, our evolutionary history, other members of our general evolutionary family and so on.

[@figmentoffairies]

@@Diviance but again, how do you determine what was the most common for our history when history is recorded by us with a perspective bias. Not only that but white washing exsists that actively re writes history to better suit their narratives. And also, our ancestors' nature wouldn't inherently reject our modern ones.

[@Redtornado6]

But dolphins play with their food before they kill them, and sometimes dolphins kill other animals for fun Edit: as soon as I posted this comment I saw in the live chat someone screaming DOLPHINS. Very based

[@2stroke4me]

God needs interpretation? Then either god is too dumb to express himself clearly, or he's too arrogant to know better than god what he means than god himself.

[@derrickminion9874]

If God created Adam to be 25 years old.. Adam would appear to be 25 years old.. the earth appears to be 4.5 billion years old

[@Diviance]

How does the book give genealogy up to Christ... when the book only records (somewhat) the genealogy of the male lineage and Jesus specifically has no such male lineage. His only human DNA is from his mother, his dad did not contribute. Virgin birth sound familiar? So there is no genealogy in the bible that can lead to Jesus because he has no male genealogy.

[@williamcozart8158]

dammit Jordan, we want shit show dumpster fire debates, not "nice convos". Throw a chair or something, jeez.

[@cajohnson130]

Jordan?

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

@@cajohnson130 Jordan "Planet" Peterson

[@doranku]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 Important live lesson: don't tell strangers what you hate :)

[@williamcozart8158]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 yes

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

@@doranku what?

[@tgrogan6049]

Well if Galileo was correct Yahweh is a crappy communicator.

[@srStinnky]

I disagree on that our brains knowing what’s good and bad for us. People do a lot of bad things for themselves. By the way hose cats do torture and kill for fun, in fact it’s the most destructive predator ever.

[@isaacbruner65]

Lots of animals are capable of incredibly cruel behavior. You should read about what chimpanzees do to red colobus monkeys.

[@srStinnky]

oh yeah that's right, they make war like plans and take over the others feeding grounds @@isaacbruner65 but house cats do this hunting and killing just for fun they don't need to fight over food, it's freely given to them by humans.

[@bradleyson]

This guy doesn’t really think his thoughts through much. If god created Adam/Eve, then original sin would have been inherited by every single human, including the Native Americans. And nowhere in the Bible does it say, only those who know who Jesus have this inherited sin and therefor only those folks need to accept Jesus. It’s everybody. Which is why the story is BS. It was clearly written by ignorant tribal people that thought they were the center of it all, and didn’t bother to factor in other unknown civilizations

[@jmr2343]

third

[@lemmyhead8578]

17th

[@user-lz2ok4uq5i]

First

[@lemmyhead8578]

9th