Nick Pope on UAPs, UFOs, Conspiracies, and Cover-ups

The Michael Shermer Show # 246
Shermer speaks with author, journalist, and TV personality Nick Pope about: what it was like working for the Ministry of Defense as their UFO expert; The Believer’s Paradox; separating two questions: Are they out there? Have they come here?; SETI science vs. UFO/UAP science; Roswell; Bayesian reasoning about UFOs and UAPs; the quality of evidence in evaluating UFO claims; the US military UAP videos and what they really represent; The Disclosure Project; why we should keep an open mind; the odds of ETIs being out there vs. the odds of ETIs having visited here; an answer to Fermi’s Paradox: Where is everyone?; conspiracies and conspiracy theories, and more…
Nick Pope ran the British government’s UFO program for the Ministry of Defense, leading the media to call him the real Fox Mulder. He’s recognized as one of the world’s leading experts on UFOs, the unexplained, and conspiracy theories. Nick is the media’s go-to person for UFOs. He’s made appearances on numerous TV news shows and documentaries, including Good Morning America, Nightline, Tucker Carlson Tonight and Ancient Aliens. He’s also written for the New York Times, for the BBC News website and for NBC’s technology and science site, and has acted as consultant and spokesperson on numerous alien-themed movies, TV shows, and video games. Nick Pope gives talks and takes part in academic conferences, fan conventions, and debates all around the world. He’s spoken at the National Press Club, the Royal Albert Hall, the Science Museum and the Global Competitiveness Forum, and has debated at the Oxford Union and the Cambridge Union Society. Nick Pope lives in the US.
SUPPORT THE PODCAST
If you enjoy the podcast, please show your support by making a $5 or $10 monthly donation.
www.skeptic.co...
SPONSOR
Wondrium
wondrium.com/s...
#michaelshermer
#skeptic
Listen to The Michael Shermer Show via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.
www.skeptic.co...

[@IVANHOECHAPUT]

I was within a stone's throw of a UFO while living in Geauga Lake, Ohio when I was 13 years old. I'm now 74. It was moving about 3 to 4 miles per hour right over our house - which means it had some sort of antigravity propulsion system. No one is going to take that memory away from me. I can safely say that it wasn't ours, it wasn't Russians and it wasn't Chinese (today's scary scenario). No one on this planet possessed that form of propulsion at that time! I owned a high-tech design and development company for over 40 years. I know what can and can't fly by blowing air behind.

[@pioneerventures1737]

Can you tell more about this event ? What do you remember?

[@mosaicmonk4380]

lol ur funny

[@corneliusagrippa4613]

Michael Shermer says that is impossible, you saw Mars, a lighthouse or it was a weather balloon. Kidding. I despise ppl like him, that reject every single person, including authority figures in the military and police that he,and everyone else would take as 150% credible in every other sector of life except UAP/UFO. If we do have a big reveal and it is proven beyond any and all doubt, I want ppl like Shermer chained up in the town square so we can throw rotten fruit at them.

[@Owl-of-Minerva]

When you know, you know and no one can convince us otherwise. I bet you wish you could have recorded it, not for fame, but to end the shame. God Bless. Thanks for sharing.

[@quinyboties]

do you think you can share more of this events? I saw many strange things while star gazing with my friends but only few are willing to listen seriously without preconceived notions

[@westleyburgess3622]

If you're talking about Kurt Jaimingle Theory of everything, it's a great broadcast. He's one of the best I've seen.

[@elstoniobanderas4091]

I AGREE.

[@hoardroarklaughed]

Great recommendation. It’s Curt Jaimungal for anyone looking.

[@voges1001]

Jamangell

[@elstoniobanderas4091]

@@voges1001 I quite like Jaimingle to be honest.

[@kovilanreddy4654]

Linda Moulton Howe is the best to watch... just for a word

[@matthewhoude1399]

A surprisingly level-headed discussion on this topic. And kudos to Shermer for finally engaging this in a meaningful way.

[@pcb8059]

Please interview these skeptic friendly individuals.. Dr Gary Nolan(Stanford director analyzing UFO artifacts reporting anomalies found ), Lou Elizondro , Edwin C May (Naturalistic physicist /skeptic ,and methodology designer and Director of CIAs RV Stargate program) Please try and get an interview with Edwin (hes getting old) , since he gets grumpy and avoids interviews with his own nonskeptical peers and fans in his own field of paraphycology for being antiskeptical, anti science, and anti materialist. He would probably appreciate and love a skeptical interview defending naturalism since he would have the freedom to be critical about his own field of research and culture. I feel he has yet to truly unload his grievances towards Parapsychology Methodology and its culture, because all the past interviewers become defensive when he defends the empirical value of naturalism.

[@spookyninja4098]

Colonel Phillip Corso stated he witnessed UFO wreckage and non human bodies being transported by the US Army Air Corps in 1947 from Roswell NM. Corso served on the White House Security Council and the Pentagon R&D section where he worked on the UFO technology again. In 2020 the Army Times reported that the US Army signed a Crada to study Roswell UFO metal debris from Linda Howe. This was reported by most web media as well. Now there is actual physical UFO evidence from the Roswell UFO wreckage being seriously studied. I cant wait for the skeptics to reverse engineer this Fact. Oh and p.s If the US Navy UFOs were Russia or China then we all would be speaking their language and working in their prison camps today = Because with Anti Gravity craft being recorded by US Military going back to at least 1952 then what have the other countries been waiting for all this time ? And with testimonies from Major Bob Salas in 1967 when a red UFO shut down 10 of his nuclear ICBMs which was impossible according to the USAF = Are you seriously saying this event was China or Russia ? Again I await your skeptic explanation

[@pcb8059]

@@spookyninja4098 Im aware of Corso, Ive been obsessed with Ufos and Anomalies for 40 years. The "skeptic friendly" 3 individuals I mentioned, have enough academic education and knowledge in philosophies of science and history, to understand the common-sense inherent value of scientific skepticism, in a philisophical and methodological Quality Control sense , not the popcultural Us vs Them usage and mentalities like you are assuming. Im talking about individuals who already have confidence in the reality of Anomalies, but have also stated they understand, value and welcome the high empirical standards of Skepticism for empirical sake, . This is strictly about formal Empiricism , Methods, etc. not the imaginary enemy of skeptics. I believe lots of crazy stuff that violate Normative Science, I also understand the inherent Value of Doubt and Empirical Standards. Skeptics and thier culture are your friends, not the Enemy. Although I would argue both cultures have gotten lazy in thier confidence. Look up science philosopher Thomas Kuhn, the Structure of Scientific Revolutions, if you want an argument against Skeptics ignoring patterns of Anomalies, he is required reading for every science student in university.

[@Brian-nh1yf]

@@spookyninja4098 Nick said some years back, that there is absolutely no British UFO coverup. HE IS PART OF THE COVERUP.

[@wildmanz8233]

I'm glad the UFO/UAP conversation is being taken more seriously than in years past. I'm totally open minded to what these objects are, and if they are being seen around military installations and our nuclear fleets we need to make understanding them a priority!

[@williamwaller6689]

Wasn't Michael Shermer the guy who tried to debunk all UFO sightings back-in-the-day?

[@wood-wheel-wizard]

What about them 🛸

[@theseeker4911]

Uh huh...

[@PetraKann]

So?

[@andresocegueda4178]

Yes and when he does this he sounds so stupid there's a video of him trying to do debunk the UFO Pentagon videos..... He should have no credibility

[@anonanon257]

I bet you have never set foot inside a reputable university science program.

[@PipeCat1965]

I am gratified to see that Nick Pope's intellect and insight are finally being accepted by the "ET community" as highly credible and even unique. He isn't a scientist, but I admire his thought process and sincerity. He has shown that he is more than another familiar face on UFO television.

[@woopteedeewoopteedye]

Pope only repeats the same stories heard over and over before he popped up.

[@Chuck-dv6rs]

The chemical detectors, at the time, indicated there was nerve agents in Iraq.

[@howtz4968]

You must have grown up with extremely low expectations. Want to buy some magic beans

[@Edbrad]

Maybe he shouldn’t have done Ancient Aliens

[@markjones336]

Eh no one in the know takes Pope seriously!He was a debunker from the start!

[@adamhatch8312]

Nick pope is the fucking MAN! LOVE THIS GUY

[@24hourjukebox55]

he's a Govt. agent. Retired ?????

[@adamhatch8312]

@@24hourjukebox55 yes obviously. But he a shy timid scientist not a valdimir putin lol. I think pope seems sincere

[@Mysterycultist999]

English people phaze Americans 😂

[@martingrey2231]

Shermer is constantly setting up his "you believe" straw man on anyone who thinks it possible anything is "extraterrestrial" so that he can look like the rational one in the conversation.

[@duyduhh3798]

He does the same thing with conservatives.

[@jefkaplinger2717]

There are tons of videos and photos taken by the public with high resolution cameras! Even with high resolution images, unless its less than 50ft away on a sunny day, its still gonna be blurry when you zoom in. As for the countless videos from the public iv seen has a way of disappearing, and never shown on "mainstream" media.

[@chrissettles4127]

Another reason is the ships are radioactive and super magnetic and have fields bigger than the planet. So interference happens.

[@chrissettles4127]

These to idiots are arguing what the government wants them to . They help the government cover up. And even help them brain storm ways or ideas to debunk truth seekers.

[@corneliusagrippa4613]

When did we, as a species, decide we know almost everything in terms of the universe and science?! We are a cluster of cells, on the way to becoming a zygote in terms of our understanding the laws that control the universe, time and reality. We don't even understand our own biology properly, let alone the vastness beyond our planet's borders. Whatever silly limits we, as silly kids playing w books, state are unbreakable absolutes depend entirely on our utter ignorance. If we limited ourselves to the limits set by dark age intellectuals, we would still be burning witches. Wake the f up. If alien life exists, it is as far beyond us as we are beyond single celled life forms.

[@Koolkarritbog]

Thank you great comment and I wish people like Shermer would grasp this beteer

[@picassoboy52]

We didn’t. Where n how did you ever decide that we did? Unless you actually spoke to everyone 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@corneliusagrippa4613]

⁰

[@worldpeacepatriot9448]

Not necessarily as you postulate in your last sentence ! They , these aliens or some of them could be in various stages of technological , social and civilizational development and therefore our differences may not be that widespread !

[@nuntana2]

Calm down Cornelius

[@erichvonmolder9310]

One last thing that wasn't mentioned in this discussion, they never talked about Rendlestom Forest Incident in England, which Mr. Pope wrote a book on it (I read it). A lot of weird things happened, which can make you believe that an ET or another type of inter dimensional being were involved. Too bad they didn't discuss that Incident to get better insight of Mr. Pope thinking.

[@Penguin_of_Death]

*Rendlesham Forest

[@MilkoOfficialChannel]

Pope is a sellout and disinformer, he tells his stuff without telling the truth he probably knows

[@viktornilsson1777]

No bother It's all coincidences in the sceptic world any way

[@erichvonmolder9310]

@@viktornilsson1777 , Sceptic world, probably that too.

[@thetruthchannel349]

The source data was corrupted because one of the men involved is a looney.

[@JackSarfatti]

The military has classified all the clear videos. The UAPS were over the ocean where the US Navy was operating not near the coast where people with i phones can see them.

[@invisiblecollege893]

Shermer is in for a very rude awakening. I'm looking forward to having front row seats to watching his mind melt when this thing cracks open

[@nestorlovesguitar]

What "rude awakening"? If you really cared about listening to him, you'd realize he never rejects the possibility of ETI in any way. He, and many people like him (including me), would happily accept in an instant the fact of extraterrestrial life when we actually SEE the ships coming down on all cities in the world and get to SEE the alien forms walking down the street. How is this requirement "irrational" in your opinion? It's not as though we are insane or we don't want aliens to exist or something. Quite the opposite, we find the idea fascinating. It's just that for us, testimonials and blurry videos don't count as proof. For people like you, it does. And you know what? That's ok. We just have different ideas on what constitutes solid, rational proof. Now, do you realize that your intellectual position is unfalsifiable and therefore safe from any scrutiny? Another 100 or 1000 years may go by without your "rude awakening" coming true and that would not prove there is no ETI out there. You can simply say "let's wait for another 1000 years, we haven't looked long enough". We, the so called "skeptics" can be proven wrong any day by the scenario provided above, but you, on the other hand, cannot be proven wrong - ever.

[@reddyreddy2618]

@@nestorlovesguitar what do you put some of the sightings with multiple witnesses, from multiple locations down to?

[@johnimusic12]

Only folk with confirmation-bias turn skeptics into antagonists. Science doesn't have a syntax for protaganism vs antagonism. #SYNTAX_ERROR

[@filthycasual8187]

@@johnimusic12 You're a bit naive then. Most skeptics have a confirmation bias of their own, whether they admit to it or not. Otherwise they wouldn't be trying so damn hard to poke holes in things that don't fit their worldview.

[@nestorlovesguitar]

@@reddyreddy2618 I think it's reason enough to entertain the idea in a respectable way, which trust me, I do. I do assign probabilistic weight to those alleged sightings, especially when they come from reputable people. Nevertheless, I just can't reach the conclusion "ETI exists and is visiting us" on just third-person accounts. I don't work that way. I cannot base a belief as spectarcular and important as belief on ETI because "a lot of people say so".

[@Don_Matteo]

I love listening to Nick for hours even when I disagree . Such a great guy . God bless

[@RC-qf3mp]

He rambles and rambles. Not a real thinker, scientist or engineer. Literally, a bureaucrat.

[@philbeckett3254]

​@@RC-qf3mp no mate just a bloke who worked in the industry which i cam confirm without meeting you.. you do not or have not. Incredible.

[@RC-qf3mp]

@@philbeckett3254 Pope is a nepobaby, got the job because of his daddy. Professional talker.

[@JNieckarz]

In regards to the zoom on the fighter jet's camera, the camera was LOCKED on the target. Zooming in keeps that object locked in center when zooming. The object "broke the lock" of the camera.

[@TheHighlanderprime]

The converse of what Micheal noted about the search for meaning being associated with those who welcome the “alien” hypotheses, applies as well to the skeptic’s need to anchor reality in association with his limited understanding of nature. So the characterization applies to all human beings’ subjective quest for meaning.

[@jayfig78]

Yep. And the search for meaning doesn’t automatically mean that there is no tangible knowledge to discover that may bring meaning.

[@neonpop80]

Dude I know. I found the skeptics position so old and tired. His arguments make were arbitrary because they were so general or can be applied to anything while he undermines the subject especially by condescending part of the people that believe it. So people have a need to believe this or that, has no bearing whether the subject is true or not. He seems to be obsessed with characterizing a whole people to differentiate them from himself and create a distance. Precisely what he would call ad hominum. By no means did I hear great reasoning from a skeptic.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

@@neonpop80 A major problem the "skeptics" have is resorting to ridicule and condescension. And they don't seem to realize that just the tiniest bit of arrogance and flippancy can detract from whatever argument they are trying to make. One thing that really bugged me about this interview is that Shermer at the outset tries to "claim" Pope as a skeptic to some degree, creating a battleground in which the "skeptics" are at war against the backward "believers".

[@neonpop80]

@@ryanjacobson2508 totally. That is excellent articulation my friend. It’s good to see people that sees this thing clearly. Well said. It is time to question the skeptics who still sit on the fence crying when faced with the outside world. Real juvenile thinking

[@pioneerventures1737]

Interesting comment. Where do you put the fear of change and the fear of social backlash in the scale of factors affecting the so called skeptics?

[@randy464]

I wonder how much skepticism is base on fear.

[@absolutelyreel8795]

Not nearly as much that is based on arrogance

[@theseeker4911]

@@absolutelyreel8795 Arrogance comes from fear though, surely? The ego

[@alpha.wintermute]

only as much as fear of the dark leads to courage to find out what is there

[@mauiswift6391]

I’d say not much as skepticism is based on evidence, it’s there or it isn’t.

[@sundowner998]

How can he think a UAP disappearing in front of trained Navy pilots in clear skies ‘is not like magic’?

[@unropednope4644]

Because magic isnt real. These things were so fast and maneuverable that they probably appeared to disappear. Theres also the possibility that UAPs have some kind of cloaking technology.

[@custardgannet4836]

Because there's no irrefutable evidence that has ever happened?

[@Dolphination]

Great example of a well-balanced conversation on this topic.

[@helethead]

How can Pope say “we don’t know how fast these things were”? They have radar and more. We might not know exactly how fast, but we should have a good approximation.

[@invisiblecollege893]

Now I will listen Michael. About time you interviewed someone from the other side of your narrow reality

[@rCold21]

Well said.

[@TheHighlanderprime]

Micheal, smartphones cannot capture moving or even stationary objects of such nature; they’re extremely limited cameras for capturing objects that are unannounced, unpredictable, and potentially technological. A skeptic is also a true believer Micheal; that’s the problem with the self proclaimed skeptic; they’re enthralled in a belief system. It is a perspective or identity that renders one skeptical of the professional skeptic. I trust Nick being skeptical and being smack in the middle than I do Micheal’s brand of skepticism.

[@PedroIaco]

Skeptics believe in themselves too much.

[@ryancrozier7674]

The PROBLEM with purely skeptical with out a fair balance of proper understanding of probability (substituting faith) is that it is always "well, what if?" Is that there is no ground for a skeptic to stand on and responsibility of reason is put solely else where and the skeptic can wear a shit eating grin while picking apart everything and every one else. These people are always never accountable and never properly researched nor counter balanced with a multi disciplinary approach because they are so singular. So not as to say fair questioning is not needed. To say no just to say no is childish at best and un equivicably disruptive at best. So smug. Great. conversation all the best

[@erichvonmolder9310]

Being too skeptical has its problems. Is everything by the numbers? Is everything provable? Maybe not. If one is too skeptical, one may miss something very interesting that could change an opinion. I say keep an open mind and don't judge so quickly.

[@anonanon257]

Maybe you just don't understand skepticism and the psychological sources of your own biases and assumptions?

[@monsenrm]

My favorite quote is, “Martha, a UFO has just landed on our front lawn. Quick get the worst camera we have.”

[@bryandraughn9830]

"What's a camera?"

[@alleadmin3294]

If you believe that in a universe this size, with uncountable trillions of suns and planets, that we are the only sentient life forms, you need to stand further away from your microwave.

[@viktornilsson1777]

Jokes aside, you better shoot some bad ones. The best photos and films are taken away and never to be seen again. Listen to Astronaut Gordon Cooper or Dr Robert Jacobs for example. Often not a pleasant experience when you get visited by the MIBs

[@custardgannet4836]

@@viktornilsson1777 lol sure 🤡

[@MrRuffle]

Nick Pope knows how to speak and interact with the media without causing a big stir. He also knew about Gobekli Tepe years before a "skeptic" that is supposed to be knowledgeable about these subjects before trying to argue them.

[@PetraKann]

Definitely MI5

[@stevenhoman7723]

Dr Knuth, a NASA phycicist has made some estimates from the data provided by the Nimitz footage. He determined that the rate of descent and coming to a full stop would have generated 5800G Even our material sciences could not build a structure able to deal with such a force.

[@tim1883]

Shermer, being skeptical is great, I am too. Having a mind closed so tight it could become fissile, is another.

[@TheHighlanderprime]

The problem with Micheal’s skepticism is that it seems to feed on him wanting to believe that all UFO believers are absolutely true believers as opposed to those who embrace a hypothesis until it's disproven. The more reasonable person who embraces the ET hypothesis, did so after after being skeptical in firstly entertaining other natural explanations; in other words, they do follow the available data until the limited cases cannot be explained naturally; but such person is open to being disproven. To me, the idea of a self proclaimed skeptic is specious because all reasonable observers must be skeptical without necessarily being a skeptic. And the most credible people who accept the ET or ED or other hypotheses are skeptical and resilient to other evidenced explanations.

[@spookyninja4098]

Colonel Phillip Corso stated he witnessed UFO wreckage and non human bodies being transported by the US Army Air Corps in 1947 from Roswell NM. Corso served on the White House Security Council and the Pentagon R&D section where he worked on the UFO technology again. In 2020 the Army Times reported that the US Army signed a Crada to study Roswell UFO metal debris from Linda Howe. This was reported by most web media as well. Now there is actual physical UFO evidence from the Roswell UFO wreckage being seriously studied. I cant wait for the skeptics to reverse engineer this Fact. Oh and p.s If the US Navy UFOs were Russia or China then we all would be speaking their language and working in their prison camps today = Because with Anti Gravity craft being recorded by US Military going back to at least 1952 then what have the other countries been waiting for all this time ? And with testimonies from Major Bob Salas in 1967 when a red UFO shut down 10 of his nuclear ICBMs which was impossible according to the USAF = Are you seriously saying this event was China or Russia ? Again I await your skeptic explanation

[@TheHighlanderprime]

@@spookyninja4098 don’t ask me; I’m the one who’s skeptical of Micheal’s skepticism.

[@spookyninja4098]

@@TheHighlanderprime I was directing my comment at Michael;s skeptic medal ;-p

[@richardsleep2045]

I was a skeptic, went out to debunk and got a shock. I guess seeing is believing.

[@TheHighlanderprime]

@@spookyninja4098 Got it!

[@shadouk6737]

With regards to things like the 'Tic Tac' possibly belonging to the Russians, the Tic Tac knew the location of the Cap Point and was waiting for the fighter jets. If we are led to believe that the tech is Russian and that the were behind similar sightings from the 40's onwards, this would be a more frightening scenario than that of alien AI etc?

[@thomastmc]

Michael Shermer's analytical style seems to be best summed up as "lazy".

[@raz0rcarich99]

Lol on point

[@duyduhh3798]

Canned as well. I can always predict what he'll come around with.

[@bryandraughn9830]

Lost his touch evidently.

[@kevincasson9848]

Lazy but Brilliant!! I love his technique! He's an exceptionally bright and intelligent, interviewer, and very thought provoking!

[@apusapus71]

Your analysis of him may be best summed up as "kind".

[@bobbymurphy4384]

I LOVED this! Nick is a great nuts and bolts guy. We met in 2018 at a UFO conference. We discussed our distain for the brain damage that is the New Age movement in UFO field. Unfortunately everything gets lumped in together. So if like me and Nick you're an atheist and also intrigued with the aerial anomalies that get picked up on radar or sighted by pilots, you need to wade through the 'quantum thoughts' brigade to get to some really interesting sightings.

[@adamhatch8312]

Your hot for ufos. Fucking awesome 👌

[@aliensarerealttsa6198]

Ah, yes, quantum thoughts. Hypnagognia. A deep Trance. The Akasha. Dreams that are more than dreams.

[@MultiBikerboy1]

And here you hit the nail squarely on the head Bobby. Nuts and bolts v ‘woo woo’. I think it would be fair to say that up to the present time ‘nuts and bolts’ has yet to be proved conclusively, three grainy vids from the US Navy is interesting and worthy of discussion, especially as it is backed up by testimony of pilots…but that’s all it is. There are indications however that ‘woo woo’ is gaining ground as bods like Lue Elizondo start mentioning inter dimensional aspects. So that saucers slip in and out of dimensions rather that travelling through space the way a rocket would do. Throw a few government lies along the way and no one knows which way is up….just how they like it I should imagine. Me? Well I saw ‘nuts and bolts ‘ saucer come right overhead outside my house in the U.K. one evening in the 70’s. Try having that image in your head for over 50 years.😏

[@bobbymurphy4384]

@@MultiBikerboy1 wow! I'm in Glasgow. Where was the sighting u had in 1971/72? As for inter dimensional, well let's keep a somewhat open mind. After all Einstein didn't know everything, however as Richard Dawkins put it, u can be so open minded that your brain falls out!

[@MultiBikerboy1]

@@bobbymurphy4384 Hi Bobby…my two friends and I were outside my house one summers evening in the 70’s. At the time I lived at Leverstock Green which is in Hemel Hempstead. I think it would have been within the footprint of Luton airport. It was about 9pm and just starting to get dark. There was low broken cloud at about 1,000 feet. We were just chatting between ourselves when suddenly we all saw come from the left of us, what is best described as a Lazar ‘sport model’. Bob said these things were 52 feet across (sounds about right) and he also mentioned that they have the appearance of brushed aluminium. This was exactly what this thing looked like. It just passed silently right overhead no noise whatsoever…no lights on it…just a perfect disc which had a lower portion underneath just like a saucer. We only saw it for 4 secs and then it was gone behind the cloud cover. I was 15 at the time and I’m now in my mid 60’s. I’ve been down the rabbit hole ever since. Well now it looks like my answers might be forthcoming. All I know for certain is that the tech is real, and it doesn’t use gas to fly. Everything else of course is pure speculation. You might want to keep up with a you tuber called Jesse Michels, he has teemed up with Eric Weinstein for a few interviews….and get this…he released a clip recently where Hal Puthoff said to Weinstein that there Aero space companies in possession of materials that have properties which are not known to mainstream scientists. (I.e. that they don’t know about them..not that they don’t know what they are). As you know this whole subject is littered with disinformation and my testimony could easily be a part of that…except it isn’t. I want the world to see what we saw before I pass.

[@Lucianoq]

I was really dissapointed specially with Nick who was greatly influenced or intimidated by Michael and didn't ad a thing to what he has already said. As a former Ministry of Defense employee in a very high position I'm sure he has information that allow him to go further without giving away any secret. For example, when they talk about not reaching any conclusion with just the 3 department of defense videos, it is true those videos don't offer much evidence, but it is obvious that there are many more videos about this (of which Nick I'm pretty sure has seen many different examples), plus the testimonies of the pilots, which can help one reach a conclusion. Not to mention the fact that the government has a long verified history of lying and covering this topic, sometimes using persons like Schermer (I am not implying that he is one) or Richard Dotty. So, now we should think that the UAPs are Chinese or Russians? I think it is possible that they now can have the technology to do the incredible things we are told the UAPs are doing, but... could they have that technology in the 50's? I think the Ocham's Razor principle would lead us more readily to an extraterrestrial, inter-dimensional or time-travel conclusion than the Russians or the Chinese one. However, I don't discard USA, as I believe Lou Elizondo when he says that "It is my belief that the United States is in posession of exotic material" (which they could have reverse engineered in all these years).

[@wellbehaveddogs7694]

I've not actually heard Nick Pope say anything new for several years...

[@JackSarfatti]

Yes, time travel.

[@wasteyelo1]

Really appreciate this conversation. Made me see certain things differently. After watching for an hour and half, it looked like you were sat next to each other in same room.

[@ancientbuilds3764]

Lol. I actually saw two zebras crossing a road in Ireland once on the way to work. Circus escapees. Definitely took a double take on that one!

[@chocolatecityoutlaw6258]

Why are they calling light speed a barrier? Given that there's at least two propulsion systems that can wrap the craft in a gravity bubble or worm hole or even specifically cancel gravitic pull of space-time objects. This makes light speed relative to the observation point.

[@Mysterycultist999]

Science fiction

[@donalddeorio2237]

This is a technology that is generations ahead of anything we even thought of. 28,000 ft to 50ft in .78 seconds do the math. 60 miles in 5 seconds do the math.

[@stephenlamley541]

Definitely I personally think they have visited us and the yanks (term of endearment) have possibly bavk engineed a craft. I've a funny feeling that what has been seen on both sides of the states are black projects.

[@LowKickMT]

thats just sensor data, no eyes or videos on the source. could be glitches, plasma, particles etc

[@donalddeorio2237]

@@LowKickMT they had radar data for 2 weeks and they recalibrated the system to make sure it wasn't a glitch. Kevin Day who was the senior radar tech witnessed multiple objects coming down from 80k ft to sea level and back up for almost 2 weeks.

[@victorgiacobbe4453]

@@donalddeorio2237 when you hear people make a statement like that they talk through ignorance. To lazy to research the subject.

[@carlwide6594]

It was an experimental version of the Multiple Kill Vehicle powered by a submarine that was under the water, using extremely high frequency waves. It fell fast because it hit terminal velocity when the controlling mechanism was switched off, temporarily. The project was abandoned because it used up too much energy and was too easily spotted, due to the fact the heat it generated in operation caused the sea to boil.

[@rickjason215]

I would love to see Commander Fravor and Mick West on the same show. Also, if the person tracking the object doubles the size to get a better view, how does that have any effect on the multiple systems tracking it? It still shoots out of the tracking frame in an instant. If the operator had made the object half the size on the monitor, would it be easier to track? This video is not from Commander Fravor, but from a subsequent flight and the airman who filmed it, never actually saw it with his own eyes.

[@richardsleep2045]

lol that would be fun. I was a bit rude to Mick's vids ;)

[@MultiBikerboy1]

14.10 “as scientists we have to keep an open mind “….JEEZ ….shame Stan Friedman is no longer around to have heard this from this guy.

[@davidanderson9664]

At 1 hr mark: I can't and couldn't at the time believe SO MANY people believed the obvious GWB lie about Iraqi WMD. That and Iraq's "terrorist" reasons were offensively stupid. D.A., J.D., NYC

[@stephenlamley541]

RIP Dr David Kelly if your not from the u.k he was a doctor charged with investigating the wmd in Iraq and was found dead in very suspicious circumstances obviously killed by the state. Disgraceful. RIP a very brave man.

[@Ironman-vq2xh]

Regarding UAP and FLIR footage, as a retired USAF pilot, I have not watched or read one thing where a debunker gets it right. Michael often loses me by either misrepresenting the facts or by quoting wholly inaccurate statements. He did it here. 2+2=4. I’m not going to debate a person who never sat where I sat and saw what we saw. We consistently saw UAP, clear as day. I know what I know. I am 100% sure there is something defying our laws of physics. Zero doubt. To be clear, 2+2=4. Michael is telling me it’s 5.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Well, it's a lot easier to make an argument by cherry picking, and giving undue credibility to a "video game designer" debunker.

[@pioneerventures1737]

Well if you decide to share your experience in more details tag me along please. Most people believe military personnel they just have not the guts to admit it publically. I think you and your colleagues should share your experiences in details. This is pivotal to our progress as a specie, it will burst a wave of innovation. The fact that there are so called skeptics is irrelevant. Every innovation , every new idea is always adversed or ignored by the masses it is human psychology 123, you need to talk only to the early adopters and discard all the rest. The followers will come later when everyone in their circle accepts the idea.

[@kylieryan3523]

Starts 6:00

[@markwinter9001]

This is the friendliest I’ve ever seen this skeptic talk

[@jelliedeels5373]

The podcast is always pretty friendly as far as I can remember. For example, the intelligent design one and the guy talking about abductions etc., neither of which were exactly hostile.

[@TheOmengod]

The reasons are endless for why we haven't made contact with other intelligent beings: 1) Distance: I'm almost certain that there's probably a million earth-like planets with people just like us at close to the same technological point, meaning: we can't see them, they can't see us. 2) Location in the Galaxy/Universe: We could be in a remote point in the universe keeping us safe from the hostile aliens 3) Timing: the universe is almost fifteen billion years old and supposably the 1st civilizations could have started up around seven billion years ago, meaning: lots of them have come and gone. 4) Primitive: 150 years ago we were riding horse and buggy. If there was a scale of 0 to 100 in technological evolution, we would register at 0.01. 5) Government cover up: no matter what you believe, the government knows something that we don't. Why wouldn't they just come out and tell us that we are idiots? It's because they don't care what we think. Chaos is better than clarity in the government's eyes.

[@spookyninja4098]

Colonel Phillip Corso stated he witnessed UFO wreckage and non human bodies being transported by the US Army Air Corps in 1947 from Roswell NM. Corso served on the White House Security Council and the Pentagon R&D section where he worked on the UFO technology again. In 2020 the Army Times reported that the US Army signed a Crada to study Roswell UFO metal debris from Linda Howe. This was reported by most web media as well. Now there is actual physical UFO evidence from the Roswell UFO wreckage being seriously studied. I cant wait for the skeptics to reverse engineer this Fact. Oh and p.s If the US Navy UFOs were Russia or China then we all would be speaking their language and working in their prison camps today = Because with Anti Gravity craft being recorded by US Military going back to at least 1952 then what have the other countries been waiting for all this time ? And with testimonies from Major Bob Salas in 1967 when a red UFO shut down 10 of his nuclear ICBMs which was impossible according to the USAF = Are you seriously saying this event was China or Russia ? Again I await your skeptic explanation

[@shawnnichols8032]

True....

[@ryancrozier7674]

Kudos to Nick Pope being unabashedly neutral with a fair admittance of personal expression of passionate hopefullness.

[@tiffsaver]

Unabashedly SITTING ON THE FENCE.

[@ryancrozier7674]

@@tiffsaver id more so say... Not so quickly swayed with fanciful beliefs. Possibly to keep his public credibility. I dont believe he is as gnostic as he claimed. Maybe he is but i see it more as a strategic self preservation mechanism which also keeps him sharp to verifiable facts.

[@tiffsaver]

@@ryancrozier7674 Knowing how wont people are to conceal their true feelings on extraterrestrials visiting earth, I would totally believe his claim if would simply state whether or not he believed that the many stories of crashed UFOs (as in Roswell and others) were real, or not. That said, the evidence proving alien contact are so enormous and varied, that only a fool could believe that such advanced technology comes from human sources, for the many reasons I have just delineated.

[@ryancrozier7674]

@@tiffsaver generally agreed.

[@tiffsaver]

@@ryancrozier7674 O.K. to "generally" agree, however, that means you had some questions. So please feel free to ask...

[@henryseldon6077]

We don't believe in magic anymore and as Capt. Kirk asked: "Why does God need a Starship?".

[@flashkraft]

Yes space is big, yes technological societies are probably very rare and very far spread out but it is very arrogant for us to try and predict what a post-singularity civilization might be capable of.

[@chrisatteridge]

great channel, michael. Timestamps would elevate this a lot though!

[@MyJohney]

these crafts was seen in ww1 moving at thousands of mph and even before ww1 so how do you explain that technology over 100 yes ago?

[@pjsebadoh5412]

They can't explain it....

[@Brian-nh1yf]

Sceptics main argument against ETs coming here or colonizing a galaxy is the time it takes, but they forget that at near light speed travel time and aging slows down dramatically - making 1000 year journeys entirely feasible.

[@funkymonk8240]

Really weak argument too, because it assumes that we humans have figured out all physics on time and space. Its more than possible that itelligent life more advanced than us has figured out a way to solve the distance/time problem. It also doesn't consider that the beings are inter-dimensional or here on earth to begin with, both options suggested by senior intelligence officials like Elizondo and Mellon

[@jdstinner3868]

@@funkymonk8240 Exactly, just because millions of years on the earth and we have only been to the Moon doesn't mean another civilization in space hasnt an advanced much faster. For all we know there could be alien civilizations that were able to get to the Earth thousands of years ago.

[@custardgannet4836]

No the main argument is there's zero irrefutable evidence of it ever happening, keep up dummy.

[@TheMg49]

Very enjoyable and interesting conversation for the most part. It's good to be skeptical about extraterrestrial (ET) visitation, supernatural entities, etc., while still not ruling out the possibility that such things exist. Simply because we know so little about our universe. I'm currently a hard core atheist, primarily because of the preponderance of evidence that strongly suggests that the supernatural claims of theistic religions are fabrications of humans. Similarly, while ET visitation can't be entirely ruled out, I think that ascribing ET origins to UAPs is mostly wishful thinking. But of course there is that tiny percentage of UAP sightings the origin of which remains quite mysterious. Anyway, I try to stay informed about the latest UFO/UAP stuff, and am an avid fan of UFO/UAP documentaries and discussions. Good discussion by Shermer and Pope, imho. Thumbs up and subscribed.

[@jkuli2900]

Thank you nick for shutting this guy up on wmds ect, you said exactly what I was thinking for a rebuttal. His close mindedness was getting to me like gov are honest or Sommin lol

[@TheHighlanderprime]

Evidence dictates the validity of a genuine conspiracy theory. Let’s distinguish a conspiracy theory from a conspiracy belief.

[@jayfig78]

Good interview. But I would add an fyi for Shermer. There are TONS of real and clear ufo videos out in KZbin land that settle whether it’s an object from out of this world or not. How do I know they’re real? Because I’m an experiencer and know which videos are real and which are not based on what I’ve personally experienced myself. It doesn’t mean that what I haven’t seen personally isn’t real. It just means that what I’ve witnessed and what others may have uploaded to the tube definitely coincide. And the truth is far stranger than fiction. Human emotion and physical UFOs go together like white on rice. And there’s a reason for that.

[@williamrunner6718]

Can you post some of those videos?

[@jayfig78]

@@williamrunner6718 I’ll post one. But there are countless videos. And this isn’t even one of the best. But when you send them to ppl, they literally ignore them and continue on with their own narratives as if they didn’t see anything… also, extreme skepticism can and will leads to toxicity and doubt in anything being real no matter what the evidence shows. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4Grcmh4g5urpZI

[@jelliedeels5373]

@@jayfig78 I don't really see how that video is clear and settles whether the object is of this world. I can't tell what it is. Can you post one of the best ones that leaves less doubt?

[@jayfig78]

@@jelliedeels5373 I never said that

[@jelliedeels5373]

@@jayfig78 Sorry, that was in reference to what you said in the initial post. I just was wondering if you you post some of the youtube videos that do make it clearer in that regard.

[@jamesgreen2495]

How would you avoid crashing into something at the speed of light. Would have to have a protective bubble. Then that points to operating in outside our physical reality in spacetime bubble.

[@garydelcourt2791]

Hi Michael…I preface this by mentioning I fall into the I want to believe category but am waiting for something more definitive. With that being said really with most of these topics there is no definitive proof in either direction. So it boils down to the best educated guess and whether people fall into two categories: I’ll believe it when I see it or I believe now until you prove me wrong. The funny thing is both sides are correct and both sides are wrong at the same time. It only makes sense that you would want to have something tangible to believe in. Conversely, if you went back in time on a whole range of subjects people would have thought it complete insanity to have believed in most of what we consider “normal” now. They would have thought no way things could exist:Jet planes, Telescopes searching the corners of the universe etc. and just because humans made the items also doesn’t mean that is a necessity for its existence. So we don’t know what we don’t know and because we can’t prove an items existence doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Kind of a wait and see deal.

[@TheHighlanderprime]

I disagree with Nick’s angle of whether we know the speeds of the navy UFOs. Those people who understand propulsion and have a better observational quotient, coupled with the instruments to verify their materiality, would have a better grip on the observed.

[@pioneerventures1737]

I saw the interview from the radar officer he quoted 39k miles per hour as speed. I think the guy knows what he is talking about did that job for 20 years. There is no way you can achieve 39k miles per hour in a metter of seconda with reaction propulsion. That thing works on a different physical principle

[@TheHighlanderprime]

@@pioneerventures1737 I’m surprise that Nick took that position … Perhaps it’s because he’s on Shermer’s show.

[@pioneerventures1737]

@@TheHighlanderprime I agree likely he adjusts to the audience

[@AdiMaco]

Always a pleasure to hear and see Nick Pope!

[@wiggamist6969]

Why lol nick pope is is disinformation agent

[@heldersufiano2816]

IS THIS GUY A DOUBLE AGENTE ?

[@bpfromowc]

Would you like to buy a bag of magic beans ?

[@bpfromowc]

@@heldersufiano2816 Yes, he is. He’s a government disinformation merchant.

[@jacksonnc8877]

Awesome Nick Pope he always great guy to listen to about the UAP phenomenon.

[@ganndeber1621]

He actually says nothing

[@MrFlaviojosefus]

It is one of the most interesting talks I have ever seen. It completely changes my opinion on Nick Pope. It is really beautiful to see you both talking so friendly to one another.

[@tiffsaver]

It has "completely changed" my opinion on Nick Pope, too. I have totally lost all respect for him. The next thing he'll do is try to explain away UFOs by, "The light from Venus bouncing off the rear of a zebra."

[@Brian-nh1yf]

It's not difficult for 2 sceptics to be friendly when they agree to ignore 80 years of evidence and turn the phenomenon into a human psychology/perception and want to believe delution.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

The only time I have a theory of everything, is when I make soup! I put just about everything I have to use up in there!

[@adventureswithjonny87]

Lololololololololololololololololololoololololol

[@freezoneproject567]

Out of curiosity, has Mr. Shermer watched the Joe Rogan episode with David Fravor, who was leading the flight when the "Tic Tac" video was captured? It's worth checking out, especially for someone who already has an interest in this topic.

[@wood-wheel-wizard]

He’s sleep and fried if he hasn’t

[@Pencil0fDoom]

News flash from a few lightyears away… he references these Navy videos in the first few minutes of this video. So, yes, he has.

[@freezoneproject567]

@@Pencil0fDoom missed it.

[@DarkForcesStudio]

It's nice to hear ideas thought out logically. Talking through your thoughts and ideas like this with a friend is what we are here for. It's fun.

[@PhantomMagician1846]

Great Vid !! I only knew Nick from AA and always assumed he was a believer. I guess that shows how powerful video editing can be.

[@rebellion2054]

Very well stated

[@XoXo475]

Didn’t realize Nick was an Alcoholic!

[@maxmileski1248]

Doesn’t the word ‘anonymous’ in the name AA mean he is NOT to be named as such?

[@cindyjohns6222]

@@maxmileski1248 Exactly !!

[@seanglynn8971]

It took me a minute to realize AA didn't mean alcoholics anonymous 🤣🤪

[@towlie_the_towel]

What’s a sceptic point of view of the pentagon uap videos ?

[@diogeneskoolaid8437]

I've seen UFOs twice in my life. all I mean is I witnessed a single object on 2 different occasions in the sky that I couldn't identify. I use the term UFO to also indicate my belief that it wasn't terrestrial based on their flight characteristics: rapid acceleration and deceleration, changing direction without any change in speed, no sound, etc. once as a teenager while stargazing in the mountains in the 70's and once in my back yard years later. the first one was just a point of light no different from a star. at first I thought it was a satellite but it did the classic zig zagging around the sky in what seemed like random movements but VERY fast. after 15 seconds or so it literally disappeared over the horizon in under a second. the second time it was just after dark and I was looking at stars in my back yard through binoculars. I saw what looked like a Mylar balloon very very high just off to the west of me. I knew it wasn't a balloon because it was reflecting sunlight so I knew it was up there. I also observed an at altitude airliner pass under it that appeared to be about twice the apparent size of the object, so it must have been sizable. it bounced around, jittered and pulsed in very odd motions - reminded me of those flies that mill outside your porch door in the summer. sort of lazy horizontal loops occasional accelerations coupled with occasional pulsing/jerking forward movements. watched it for several minutes and it too finally zipped out of sight almost instantaneously.

[@funsweed]

The aliens must look at us and scratch their heads at how we get things so screwed up

[@ruthcollins2841]

😅🤣😂 They know they helped to create us. They just like visiting earth to see how we aren't developing! We are their experiment.👽

[@outoftheforest7652]

because Humans have a tendency towards Psychopathy and Narcissism

[@ecipeciepc]

Actually Nick West zoom explanation of tic tac video acceleration is simply wrong. Recently a navy pilot that filmed it called Chad Underwood gave an interview and said on video that the acceleration was real, not a zoom visual artifact. The instrument that filmed it was a weapons system designed for aggressive maneuvering and no amount of zooming can make it loose its target which is what happened. Plus at the same instant the radar signal of the thing was also gone both on the plane's radar and on Princeton ship's radar.

[@cato451]

I’m very skeptical

[@fwd79]

So you should, doesn't mean you can't entertain an idea.

[@cato451]

@@fwd79 oh sure I’m always open to any idea but the crazier the idea or claim the more evidence I need.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

If extraterrestrials would show up here, my first questions would be: Are they edible? What do they taste like? Red or white wine? (

[@klansix]

like chicken

[@roberthatch6153]

As a theist and a Christian we are called to give a defense of that belief but being dogmatic and dismissive has never helped anyone and never will…. Learn the current understanding of information (though ever changing) and then come back to have a conversation with the ever respectful Nick Pope

[@TheCuriousOrbs]

I always feel somewhat disapointed when the skeptic community state our current limits of scientific capability as also being the limits that non-terrestrial civilisations must be bound by. It's too easy to shut down ANY conjecture using that kind of flawed logic. "Because we can't get past FTL transportation, therefore no one else can either" These guys need to think bigger than that if this thing is going to be resolved. This isnt to say they arent good with posing possible explanations but those explanations need to be more encompassing than whatever the most recent papers out of academia can offer.

[@slicgreendueler4884]

Nick Pope is so intelligent and easy to listen to. Well done Nick!

[@invisiblecollege893]

How Mike has to discredit Nick by always lumping in the the very stigmatised term "conspiracy theories" is disgusting. Nick has always just spoken on what he knows from decades in the field and if he speculates, he says that. How easy it must be to be a full time skeptic... also how freaking boring

[@Pencil0fDoom]

Over-indexed. Question for Mr. Shermer; how well defined are your epistemological thresholds for this topic? Are they categorically consistent with other types of observable phenomena? If not, what are your special necessary conditions for acknowledging statistical likelihood of exotic possibilities as valid explanations?

[@pioneerventures1737]

Is this your way to say you disagree with him?

[@fakeshemp9599]

Growing up in the 90s I remember watching all the ufo programs on TV and seeing both you and nick pope featured at times and have been fans of both of you guys ever since! You always do good work Mr. Shermer 👍

[@Keepinitreal61]

Could our ancestors put the moon in place to protect us from a asteroid strike.

[@PedroIaco]

Nature did

[@Cnhfcsh]

Mr. Schirmer is a garden-variety example of a certain personality type. They have to be a crusader. It’s critical. It gives them a sense of worth. Makes them feel that they stand above the crowd. It doesn’t much matter what they crusade for. They just need to crusade. Just need to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Mr. Schirmer started on a crusade for Jesus. He believed the lunatic fairytales and passionately evangelized for them. When he tragically discovered there is no Jesus, then he became a crusader against all things not immediately provable by current science. Example: UFOs can’t possibly be anything from another planet. They have to be swamp gas or specks of dirt on aircraft windshields. His “hard-nosed scientific worldview“ makes him smarter than everybody else - his prestige is restored. It doesn’t matter what he mouths off about… He just needs to mouth off in an exceptionally strident Fashion so that he stands above the unwashed.

[@stephenlamley541]

Just to be clear the famous bigfoit footage Spielberg whilst filming a space odyssey 2001 said he couldn't recreate the footage. The re question for me would be what proof does a skeptic need. I mean bigfoot could gran Michael and corndog him from behind and the reply would be along the lines of a bee flew into my ass. There's being a skeptic and just not willing to open our minds to the strange. Whats the Shakespeare quote; 'there are far stranger things on heaven and earth, than are in your plays Horatio.

[@shirleyhagan8696]

What bothers me is that Pope goes so much further in other programs.Please be truthful. We are sick of all the lies and exaggerations!

[@pioneerventures1737]

The guy knows much more than he says, his goal is to publicize the topic and he adjusts to the audience in each context.

[@RobedLogic]

I hope Shermer gets to see the world in the next 5-10 years. It's gonna be crazy. Best wishes and let's see what happens.

[@SohoComedyClubLondon]

Jeez man, he’s middle aged. I think it’s a good bet he’ll be around in ten years.

[@timreynolds7736]

Care to enlighten me on what's gonna happen in the next 5-10 years then? 🤔 Spill your beans please...

[@custardgannet4836]

@@timreynolds7736 With regards to UFO's? Same thing that's happened for the past 80 years. More "trust me bro" stories and fuck all else.

[@MrGhulamK]

Always a pleasure to watch and hear Mr. Pope speak. 👍

[@spilgeerzurumlugil17]

He's a really nice guy, maybe too nice. Bet he's a bond vilan. Seriously though do you think he's telling the truth or following a script to get the people on the defensive, or worried about aliens and their intentions?

[@ohalloranjames]

thanks for this conversation gentlemen

[@cabruzzofamilyvineyards6614]

As it becomes clear that the multitude of exo-planets in our galaxy is into the hundreds of billions, it is evident that the fact of ET intelligent life existing in our galaxy has become a statistical CERTAINTY. We shouldn't be surprised that we are being visited, that's exactly what we would do if we had the technology. Shermer marvels that we are not getting better quality pics with the millions of cell phones in use, truth is, cell phones are terrible for filming high altitude, fast moving objects. I was surprised at the UAP press conference at DNI no one asked if the DoD was in possession of better quality pics. One of the pilots stated that he was seeing UAP's almost every day for two years, so it would have been absurd for the military not to equip a plane with high resolution cameras, since one of the options was that these could be Russian or Chinese made craft. A high-res pic would help reveal any foreign markings, rivets, identifiable components etc. The truth is the military IS in possession of these photos, Elizondo and others have confirmed this, they need to be released! High resolution cameras are not top-secret items!

[@XoXo475]

Nicks come a long way since moving to America. He used to be much thinner with dark hair and always wore glasses. He’s clearly doing well for himself.

[@phuklyyve8941]

yeah people in england are sooo hungry :(

[@XoXo475]

@@phuklyyve8941 it’s true. We only eat worms mostly

[@bencorwin]

Why always apply the limitations of time and space? It could be inter-dimensional.

[@adampomeroy9463]

If Kevin day Is correct that the craft went from 28,000 feet to 50 feet in 0.78 seconds, The G force is 5700. If he is correct then it would not be human propulsion. Perspective, if you can go out of 1000 G you can cross from one edge of the Galaxy to the other in a few months. Time dilation works in your favor as long as when you speed up you decelerate at the same pace. Also with how fast the craft went by the radars That the people on the ships were saying the craft literally should melt Because of Friction let alone set off an atomic explosion because of the energy. They saw a craft cover 60 miles in a couple of seconds. The international space station does roughly 5 miles a second. If this is true the reason why we would call them spacecraft is because they are moving at speeds that spacecraft go…

[@stephenlamley541]

Glad im not flying one I'd mess it up and get off at a million yrs old. As I'm sure you can tell I don't really understand this fully.

[@adampomeroy9463]

@@stephenlamley541 yes as the galaxy perspective a lot of time will pass. For you no. If it’s AI, science explores, or they are tribal like, they might not care if they go home. 2000 years ago the Roman shields that were in the sky, could be the exact same life forms and craft that we see today.

[@Naturamorpho]

Mankind's most precious gift is the capacity, albeit limited, to observe, experiment, falsify and then apply logic to understand the world that surrounds it. Unfortunately, we waste it with an amazing need to believe, which blindfolds the ability to understand. So much so that many times, even in the face of hard evidence, people still prefer to hold on to old beliefs.

[@TDiddy6278]

Best discussion I have heard on the subject. No insulting theories or hubris takes. Great job to both of you. 👍🏼

[@TheHighlanderprime]

If you say no hubris, you’ve not been listening to Micheal’s skeptic’s rants very long.

[@TDiddy6278]

@@TheHighlanderprime True. 😂 I meant just this one. 😂👍🏼

[@spookyninja4098]

Colonel Phillip Corso stated he witnessed UFO wreckage and non human bodies being transported by the US Army Air Corps in 1947 from Roswell NM. Corso served on the White House Security Council and the Pentagon R&D section where he worked on the UFO technology again. In 2020 the Army Times reported that the US Army signed a Crada to study Roswell UFO metal debris from Linda Howe. This was reported by most web media as well. Now there is actual physical UFO evidence from the Roswell UFO wreckage being seriously studied. I cant wait for the skeptics to reverse engineer this Fact. Oh and p.s If the US Navy UFOs were Russia or China then we all would be speaking their language and working in their prison camps today = Because with Anti Gravity craft being recorded by US Military going back to at least 1952 then what have the other countries been waiting for all this time ? And with testimonies from Major Bob Salas in 1967 when a red UFO shut down 10 of his nuclear ICBMs which was impossible according to the USAF = Are you seriously saying this event was China or Russia ? Again I await your skeptic explanation

[@CalisthenicsWork]

Listened to the podcast earlier. This was enjoyable. I’ve always enjoyed the more outlandish conspiracies as if they were magic tricks. The fun being then hearing the debunks.

[@KibyNykraft]

In the "ETs" question you only need to hear a small part of Rick Doty in the M..rage men docu to debunk it all. But he went first to the MUFON group to talk ,naively, they almost threw microphones at him 😅 Basically he wh..blowed at retirem age about being a part of a coldwar disinf program to create the whole ET hoax temporarily in order to lead the soviets away from curiosity to the airf.'s experim tech projects. But didn't expect it to become a big cult thing on its own

[@westall1966]

This phenomenon- technology and sightings of silent highly maneuverable crafts has been going on for many many years. Whatever the crafts were had nothing to do with US, Russian or Chinese at that time. Now in this time anything is possible I suppose. Many reports out there say someone or some technology knows how to and has remotely disengaged our nuclear missiles. Pretty scary if that is in fact true?

[@testrabbit]

I have a bunch of your books (M. Shermer), and they're all extremely interesting. I also used to have a subscription to Skeptic mag but allowed it to lapse, because I kept missing it going to a previous address. Anyhow, keep doing what you do and promoting critical thinking. Much of society is lacking in this skill to their own detriment.

[@trevorcarterva]

Michael, You need to interview Jacques Vallee. There are other explanations other than extraterrestrial.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Yup, they could have origins in the deep ocean depths, for one thing.

[@2bulrs958]

Nice benign and safe conversation. Most people are drawn to the "logical" or "science" world view. They neglect the fact that there has been a 70 year coverup of the truth on this subject. One might consider the size of the universe, and compare it to the size of earth and the human brain Most, if not all are not capable of understanding the phenomenon. Maybe we should consult Socrates. If Pope doesn't repeatedly say "I can't discuss that" - it's all a softball (whiffle) ball game.

[@TheHighlanderprime]

The skeptic often violate logic if the logical deduction is open to all possibilities. Logic isn’t always scientific specially when the scientist has a bias.

[@AdiMaco]

@Michael Shermer: Physics as a science as we know it now has only about 500 years and General Relativity around 100 years. I believe there is more to come.

[@tomwelch6281]

I run into people that think people can't travel fast I tell them the earth is rotating at 800 mph do they feel anything

[@chuckshipley9917]

Why is it so unpopular and so much less desirable to entertain the idea that they are either future us, or our future A I? It explains the physical similarities and travel obstacles perfectly.

[@joemariejames4757]

Because of going backwards in time is unlikely? You can only go forward in time?

[@Gershwin48]

In 1964 I asked my dad if he believed aliens were out there. He worked to put man in space and the dinner talk often went toward physics and odd questions coming from me, a thirteen year old kid. His answer was typical for him, “If there were aliens out there, they would come down and make pets of us.”

[@captainloaf4767]

Well that argument does have some truth to it based on what we have done on earth, however the argument could be had if a being is capable of travelling such distances they may be more advanced then us in so many more ways then just technology the other argument would be of one other race of beings exist there will be more maybe there is a race of aliens saying no you cannot go down there and destroy these crazy monkeys. I guess the logical way for us to think based on the facts we know is the way your dad thought but then again are we arrogant enough to truley believe we are the only intelligent life form out there who knows I don’t but it’s a great thing to ponder.

[@alleadmin3294]

They already have.

[@a.t.c.3862]

​@@alleadmin3294 🛸 👽 🤫

[@pinstripejohnny]

And that’s essentially what has happened

[@michaelsundseth]

I have always been a fan of your intellectual skepticism and I am happy to see you on this platform. Thank you for your contribution to the richness of my life and others. Keep up the good work. 🤙🏽

[@kevinnix5495]

Never trust anyone named Michael, got it!

[@zarni000]

Wouldn't say it's intellectual

[@markjones336]

Intellectual??More like ignorant&stupid!🥴🤦‍♂️

[@tyamada21]

My new understandings of what many call 'God' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE... Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave. The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist. For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment. The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing. The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence. The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists. Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’. On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication. For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything. NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us. My autobiography explaining how I, and others I've told, have used this chant to change our poisons into medicine titled: 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within', is now available at Amazon Books for 99cents (the lowest Amazon allowed me to price it) To read more about Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo please read Tina Turner's new book: Happiness Becomes You -- or Google 'Let go, and let God' by Olivia Newton-John.

[@EricRosenwaldPhotography]

Corrections: The sound barrier was broken by the X-1, a rocket-powered plane. Not a jet engine. The U-2 was a Lockheed aircraft, not Boeing