Nightwing Couldn't Escape Batman's Shadow | The New Batman Adventures

[@thecactussword4304]

"Nightwing" is what my boss at work calls me. I used to be Robin, but now that I've comfortably proven myself high on the ladder in the supermarket meta, I've been upgraded to Nightwing. It works, too, because corporate never schedules me and everyone working there really wishes I got to show up more.

[@MBiz.]

👍

[@King_Hehehe]

I choose to believe that his disappearance from continuity is explained by Dick finally being able to separate himself from Batman by doing the one thing Batman could never do: Retire.

[@The_Phantasm]

Strictly in the context of the DCAU, considering that Nightwing's appearances weren't enough to fully explore the character, it is true that in this continuity Nightwing didn't completely establish himself as a standalone character, which is unfortunate because Nightwing in the comics was completely able to to achieve that and is a colossal success. Nightwing in the comics has rightfully earned the reputation of "Batman's Greatest Success" and is the true emotional anchor of the Bat-Family. Dick Grayson is my favourite comic book character of all time. What makes Nightwing special is that he is everything Batman couldn't be. Batman is definitely one of if not the greatest superhero in all of fiction but he is obsessed with the mission and has given up his life to be Batman but Nightwing didn't. Instead of lingering in the darkness Dick moved on and celebrated his parents' lives, he formed relationships, became a true leader and devoted his life to helping others out of the kindness of his heart. Dick Grayson is only human yet he is more heroic than most superheroes.

[@gfilmer7150]

The Nightwing-Catwoman team up Episode was supposed to be a test for a Nightwing spin-off show but the WB execs didn't want to pick that idea up.

[@zemox2534]

Sometimes I feel the fans are smarter than the studio executives

[@houseofmatrix6174]

@@gfilmer7150dang that’s crazy I love that episode

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@zemox2534And even the showrunners themselves.

[@HBstudios2005]

Makes sense since Batman even said in young Justice that he has Robins so they don't end up like him

[@dragonhead99]

I'm grateful for Teen Titans animated series. I know that it's not connected to DCAU at all. But, show what Dick Grayson journey would be like if he not under Batman's shadow all the time. Just because he raised and trained by Batman. Doesn't mean Batman should control Dick Grayson's future.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

And his Nightwing identity does get to have a memorably awesome appearance in one Starfire-centered time travel ep.

[@jazzyprince3335]

@michaelandreipalon359 Fr, shit was cool as hell. I think that episode was my introduction to the Nightwing character

[@VALonYouTube]

@dragonhead99 I'm guessing you're referring to Teen Titans (2003) rather than Teen Titans Go! (2013).

[@EliteEasyE]

A huge tragedy about Tim Drake is Mathew Valencia getting replaced because he changed agents then never getting to voice him again. I hope he gets invited to BTAS/NBMA con panels

[@SerumLake]

Yeah, I always found it weird that his newer agents didn’t tell him there were new Batman gigs available. It’s almost like they didn’t want him to earn money 🤷‍♂️

[@EliteEasyE]

@@SerumLake Very strange since he stayed with the same company!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Feeling the jarringness in Static Shock and Mystery of the Batwoman, I see.

[@EliteEasyE]

@@michaelandreipalon359 oh yes!

[@ggbetz]

Totally agree. Dick Grayson is DC's ultimate cool big brother. He's friends with batman, but is totally cool and relatable, has a mullet, his own nemesises, legacy, city, his own wealth, rides a motorcycle, Etc. Also lol when DC relaxed and made an in-universe decision that he had the best butt (too much on his sex life tho) I love in the comics when he took the mantle of batman, he was the one with the difficult sidekick (too dificult for batman), and even the villains took notice that he was so very different (not just a foot shorter). Haha, your ending line about "another light and breezy topic then" re: tim drake! Comedy gold

[@superherochestsymbol1032]

It’s too bad DC doesn’t really think highly of him, and they always feel the need to make his skills and years and years of training and fighting look lackluster, like Nightwing could beat armed ninjas without his gear yet DC you a like “nope, make him look pathetic and get saved by Batman” lol

[@NerdsterStein]

I do remember an episode of the original teen titans showing the future and him being nightwing with long hair

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Oh, yes, S2E1 "How Long Is Forever?"?

[@Cri_Jackal]

5:42 first time hearing the term "domino mask". Look it up, traditional accessory for use at "carnivals and circuses". Holy fuck it all makes sense now. Every other character that uses that mask because they were inspired by Robin are actually using a circus accessory, it's just like the superhero tights, which were in reference to strongmen and bodybuilders.

[@angrytheclown801]

Well you gotta figure, carnivals and circuses were really popular around the pulps and comics golden age. The circus is all through comics. From the original Atom all the way to Hawkeye. It's almost a shot in time to the circus for each of us to enjoy.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

I would say that Terry Mcginnis is what DCAU Nightwing tried to be. Despite being a successor to Bruce, Terry had many qualities that made him different from Bruce (ex: He still had a mother and brother, he didn't had the same years of training) and was able to grow and be his own Batman rather than copying Bruce. Even in his final apperance in Epilogue, Terry decides to propose to Dana, choosing to let people in rather than pushing them away like Bruce did. TNBA spend too much time showing Dick being stern and having difficult relationship with Bruce and very rarely show the aspects that make him his own unique hero, like his leadership and his charming personality (aspects that were presents in other better adaptations like Teen Titans and Young Justice).

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Actually he had these same flaws in the other shows, but because he was able to thrive on his own and with the others, he was able to establish his own character.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

@@mandalorianhunter1 This plus the fact the shows adress those aspect of him as flaws he has to overcome, learning to trust his teammates and be a leader, something we didn't saw much in TNBA bc it focus more on his relationship with Batman and the Bat-family.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@alexandrefrauches132 agreed

[@lexofexcel886]

It's really shocking that Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing has stuck for so long considering how closely he's associated with the Robin concept. More to the point of the video, it's been said by others that Dick Grayson is essentially the kind of person Bruce Wayne would have been if Batman had been around when he was a child. Maybe that's another big reason why he still lingers in Bats' shadow?

[@SerumLake]

Maybe! There’s definitely something there about Dick showing what would be possible if Bruce had received psychological help and support at a young age.

[@Cri_Jackal]

Dick becoming Nightwing and Jason becoming the new Robin actually happened at basically the same time in the original comics, Jason didn't start calling himself Robin until Dick came back with his Nightwing identity and gave him his blessing to use the Robin name. So from the beginning, it's the fact that there are other characters that can take on the mantle of the boy wonder that enables Grayson to continue into the Nightwing character arc.

[@mechajay3358]

I honestly don't mind that Nightwing is more similar to Batman. It just shows that deep down, despite his strained relationship with Bruce and his determination to be his own hero, he still respects him and subconsciously wants to honor him. Hence why I have no problem with the Nightwing suit. I wish they'd given us an answer if what happened to him in Batman Beyond.

[@kaylaturnis9486]

I had seen concept art for Nightwing TAS in the past and they were all on the villains like Sweet Tooth, who was from The Batman & Robin cartoon, Kite Man, Film Freak, Clayface 3, Blockbuster, The Tallyman, The Mannequin, Bronze Tiger, etc. It could have been interesting to see but to no avail. 😢

[@jjrsbigo]

“Oh my God, what happened to the Joker?” 😂😂😂

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I never understood the hate on that though. He's already inhuman to me.

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

​@@michaelandreipalon359same with his redesign for _The Batman_ making him look the monster, it matched who he is on the inside.

[@jjrsbigo]

@@michaelandreipalon359 yeah, I don’t mind Joker’s redesign (though I’ll admit I like his Justice League/Return of the Joker flashback design a bit more); it’s just that deadpan delivery cracked me up.

[@jjrsbigo]

@@nicholasfarrell5981 and I like that design too (and the show overall), once I got over my “it’s not the DCAU, I hate it!” phase and actually gave the show a chance.

[@Bertiboy]

⁠@@michaelandreipalon359 For me it’s always been the fact that they got rid of Joker’s red smile and green hair. Theyre both some of his defining design traits, so it’s really weird that they were removed. I did like his new suit though and head shape though. I think they did the best of both worlds with Justice League and Batman Beyond.

[@aidanhever3369]

His first Nightwing suit prototype reminds me of Batman's lesser-known villain: Lord Death Man.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Who again?

[@CrocsFortress]

@@michaelandreipalon359He is a villain with a skeleton costume who has the ability to cheat death.

[@WhiteFangofWar]

The difference being that Nightwing never got his own show in Bludhaven. The comics have room to try almost any wild ideas they can think of and see if they stick, even giving Nightwing his own Rogues' gallery, but animated programs are more expensive. He does get some good exposure in Young Justice as a big brother team leader and romantic partner to Starfire.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Starfire isn't in Young Justice.

[@LaNoLaCola]

1:39 learning that the bit was from Teen Titans Go! felt like whiplash

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Yeah, not gonna watch that still.

[@VALonYouTube]

Sins of the Father was, in fact, the first episode of TNBA to be aired in select international markets. Holiday Knights would eventually be broadcast around Christmas time, much after its characters had already been introduced to audiences.

[@SerumLake]

very sensible!

[@shanewright344]

That mullet is fierce...

[@icon_uk624]

I don't think Nightwing has ever denied that his identity is patterned after Batman, after all, who else would he pattern it after than the hero he has always, in some way, most admired? The original comic book origin remains my favourite, as Dick clearly states the choice of name is acknowledging the two greatest heroes he's ever known, Batman AND Superman, and since no one on Earth knows about Clark being Nightwing on Kandor, it's a new name to the world at large. In "Old Wounds" I also don't think Dick was being hypocritical in his anger at Bruce revealing his identity to Barbara. Dick had always been FORBIDDEN from revealing his identity to anyone, because of the fact it would also expose Bruce's idenitty as Batman, and he remained loyal to that, so his not doing it was an act of solidarity. After years of holding to that for Bruce's sake, Bruce deciding that Dick's identity wasn't worthy of the same level of protection is very much a valid reason for Dick to be angry (especially when Bruce didn't even have the courtesy to tell him he'd done so) so Barbara calling him out on him not telling her (especially as she never told him she was Batgirl either) is a very flawed comparison, and just makes both Bruce and Barbara look dismissive of how important Dick was to them. (And we draw a veil over the "Bruce then dates Barbara" aspect because... nope, not going there) I thought there had been a suggestion in interviews with the producers that the fate of Dick Grayson would have been the subject of another movie, had they made one after RotJ (and his absence in that story flashback when Tim goes missing, even in a cameo, seems egregious). For comic book appearances I will always recommned Batman Adventures Vol 2 12, which whilst not canon by your (entirely reasonable) definition, has two excellent Dick Grayson centric stories; "The Duo Dynamic" has Batman visiting Bludhaven on a case, where Nightwing is the resident hero, but has developed a very VERY different approach: He works openly with the police, gives interviews with the media, and makes public appeals for assistance from the general population. He's publicly loved and admired, and is an inspirational hero in a way which is, amusingly and appropriately, very Superman like. There's also a backup story suggesting that the trophy cave in the Batcave was not something Bruce created for himself. When tiny new Robin Dick Grayson is disappointed that they can't keep the giant robot dinosaur they'd just defeated, it is Alfred who points out to Bruce that Dick has given up a LOT to be Robin, Dick was used to life as the "star of the show" at the circus and now, on top of losing his parents, he has to hide his incredible skills in public so no connection can be made between Dick and Robin. Dick is used to the limelight in a way Bruce has never been and perhaps he deserves some special recognition from his new mentor. So Dick arrives for training in the Batcave the next day to find the robot dinosaur has been installed in an adjacent cave. Bruce never says a word about it, and Dick never asks, but over the years, the trophies accumulate, and Dick knows that Bruce has started this for HIM, and later on, for those who followed him. The final panel is a gem which I leave for those interested to seek out.

[@cosmo5961]

another goated video, thank you so much serum for blessing us with this analisis

[@SerumLake]

You’re welcome, glad to hear you enjoyed it!

[@chrisboots5768]

that clip you showed at the beginning of nightwing and bat girl crumping up the jokers money was one of my fav joker moments since he just bursts out laughing and goes "let the good times roll" makes me laugh every time

[@cinemaarts8795]

I know not everyone will agree with this but IMO Deathstroke is the true nemesis of Nightwing or any of the Robin's, he tends to work best when he's paired against younger characters. Given how the DCAU Nightwing has a complicated relationship with Batman and Deathstroke from his creation was meant to be the bad version of Batman, that would really be a fascinating dynamic to explore. Slade really is the worse parts of Bruce, such as using people for his own ends. BTW, I think Robert Taylor from Longmire would be the perfect voice for Deathstroke

[@Zzzm517]

No,that's straight up false . Deathstroke isn't some evil version of batman and his relationship with Dick Grayson isn't some dark mirror of Bruce and Dick's relationship.The only way this comparison works is if you scrape of the most bare bones reading of the characters.Dick and Slade have their own unique rivalry with no connection to batman

[@cinemaarts8795]

@@Zzzm517 whatever

[@tylerbertram7065]

I'm personally not a fan of Nightwing being stuck in Batman's shadow I works pretty good as his own hero with his mythos and rogues. Plus part of Dick becoming Nightwing is a way of escaping Bruces shadow.

[@Zzzm517]

Agreed.The whole reason he left the robin identity behind originally was because the robin mantle was intrinsically connected to batman

[@EliteEasyE]

loooove Batman and Harley Quinn eps that Seduction of the Innocent reference!

[@abiam9X]

I always loved the version of Nightwing where he is inspired by Superman to come up with his persona, named after a Kryptonian creature of legend. Good old Uncle Clark helps him find his own identity, be his own hero. Nightwing is consistently portrayed throughout the years as Bruce's greatest success, and for good reason. He is everything Bruce set out to be, minus the brooding. Dick is a leader, a hero; while Batman can get caught up in the need for results, Nightwing is the heart and soul of the family. It always feels good to see him get recognition, and is sadly one of very few areas I find the DCAU lacking. Though I am most likely biased - he is one of if not my favorite hero in existence.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Honestly I always preferred his Future Nightwing appearance in Teen Titans. I honestly wish we got to see more of this version of Nightwing, what happened to him during the events of Return of the Joker when Tim was captured then how he ended up in Batman Beyond.

[@davidBTAS]

If you were Batman, which sidekick would you prefer: Dick Grayson as Robin at your side or Alfred on the Bat computer providing needed information via wireless to your earpiece in your cowl and sending needed assistance when called upon? I prefer the latter. Simply because when I'm fighting criminals, the only personal safety I want to worry about is my own.

[@SerumLake]

I feel similarly.

[@zemox2534]

It helps to have someone watching your back though

[@Rengokuo4o6]

Agreed. Common sense finally.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Would have an army, like the Outsiders/Kingdom Come's "Silent Cavalry".

[@ThePlayTyperGuy]

I've argued that B:TAS and NEW BATMAN ADVENTURES feel like they exist in separate universes (the latter more "modern," not a "dark deco 1940s"), and I think Dick Grayson is very different between those shows. He's much more lighthearted in B:TAS and Bruce is a much better "dad" in that series. It's hard to imagine the Bruce of B:TAS bailing on Dick's graduation or making it impossible for him to live a normal life (as we see in "Old Wounds"). The Dick of B:TAS is clearly able to take significant time off, etc. I might've preferred a less dramatic exit -- Dick simply moves to a separate identity from Robin/Batman without the tension.

[@TapCat]

I love your videos and breakdowns of the various character depictions in the DCAU. I do feel like there's a very big leap of logic, though, in thinking that Dick not being depicted on the later Batman show on a regular basis somehow means that he didn't escape Batman's shadow. We have no idea what he was doing in universe and I would argue that being featured more often in a Batman show would actually be much better evidence that he hadn't escaped his shadow because he's still just working with him all the time. As it is, he might well be in Bludhaven or any number of other places doing whatever he thinks is best. DCs decision not to have a show centered on Nightwing doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything any more than I believe that all of the Justice League retired after the events of Justice League unlimited.

[@triyholloway]

Is it just me or did everyone else instantly realize on their first watch notice that in Batman Beyond: Rebirth Part I the crook that Bruce pulled the gun on looks exactly like an aged-up version of the kid from the TNBA: Old Wounds flashback sequence? It was years after when I re-watched both series one day when the two aired mysteriously back-to-back on the Hub network.😅

[@foxydear4020]

There's hints of Dick in Static Shock being with the titans that translated over to batman and batman beyond, so I always considered that canon.

[@mangrove]

There were plans for a Nightwing series by Ki Hyun Ryu, but they were cancelled after Young Justice was greenlit. Ryu's designs for Dick/ Nightwing and Raven can be found online.

[@Marsh388]

There WAS one tie in of “Batman Adventures #12” where Nightwing was established as more cooperative with police and folk, but it still boiled down to Dick and Bruce’s strained relationship.

[@carolynbrognano614]

Hey Serum, quick request: Do you think in a soon future video you could talk about the Batman Beyond villain Ratboy (aka Patrick Fitz)? I watched his episode Rats! yesterday, & he quickly became one of my favorite batman villains. His voice is way smoother than his design would lead you to believe, & his motivations (along with the implication that he's done more than a few murders) are so interesting & complex. Could make for an interesting video, if you don't mind.

[@MetroXLR]

Personally, I never liked how TNBA made not only Bruce colder, but Dick more angrier (especially around Bruce.) Like, I get it. They left on bad terms and have some unresolved issues, but when one re-watches Robin's Reckoning, Bruce really did care about Dick and blamed himself for him losing his parents (not unlike how he blames himself for losing his own parents.) Looking back, Bruce really loves Dick like a son and I am certain that he was a good father figure when Dick was growing up. The point I am making is that TNBA made Nightwing seem like he hates Batman, and is just helping him out because he feels he has to, but is more than willing to leave if given ANY reason. As such, I am one of few people who actually like "Batman & Harley Quinn", as that animosity is gone and Nightwing finally seems like he is glad to be there (in other words, it felts like the 'Batman & Robin Adventures' again.) Maybe it's just me, but I like it when Nightwing acts more like Spider-Man would if HE were teaming up with Batman (which actually HAS happened in a few obscure crossover comic books.)

[@legoben98productions]

Dick has a long history of being angry especially when he started out as nightwing in the comics, and I think that in the dcau Bruce slowly becoming more cold as the years went on hit dick more emotionally, like imagine knowing how your father figure being compassionate and calm for years it’ll later on after doing the same thing with the same result as he gets slightly more aggravated by what he has been fighting with, having to it’s a “it’s like I don’t know you anymore” kind of thing that hurts and knowing how by jlu comes around he gets more sociable and working with other heroes til return of the joker with Tim getting tormented made Bruce fall apart with everyone again probably would make dick get a hit of Deja vu when Bruce starts pushing everyone away by telling everyone to not work with him or retire

[@Southern_Crusader]

I like to imagine that Dick Greyson retired in Bludhaven and started a family like Barbara did, maybe acting as a consultant for the newer Justice League.

[@netherdominater9960]

“Nightwing is the better version of Batman” - Bruce Wayne

[@WarhawkBeyond2040]

DCAU did a fine job with Nightwing but my main problem was we never got to see him enough in TNBA and I honestly don't think he was fully fleshed out as a character. I thought the Lost Years tie in comic book series did it so much better as we got to spend more time with Dick Grayson and see him develop his Nightwing persona plus we got to see what he had been up to after leaving Gotham. I appreciate TNBA bringing him in but I would have loved to have seen him play a bigger role in the show. I completely agree with you, this Nightwing was just a Batman tribute act lol In my opinion, Nightwing is so much better in the comics and is written as a badass. I think if TNBA continued, we probably may have got to see more of him which would have been great

[@LuizFelipe.1689]

Great essay!

[@weathersama604]

I hate comic Batman being abusive towards his kids. He can be out of touch, and not do best thing, but that's good writing a character with faults. Batman not realising how Robin felt is always superior to Batman being angry, yelling and punching his kids to not agreeing with him.

[@jackofallclaws6672]

Kinda sucks that DCAU Nightwing doesn’t have the connection to Superman.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Yeah it's awful that they didn't go that route

[@michaelandreipalon359]

That's what happens when the Superman of the DCAU came later to Metropolis, and thus never was around when Batman was in his Year One onwards.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@michaelandreipalon359 yeah I think he became Superman the year before Tim became Robin.

[@jackofallclaws6672]

@@michaelandreipalon359 TNBA came out after STAS, maybe they could’ve had a tie-in comic or had Clark make a cameo in The Lost Years?

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@jackofallclaws6672 Well, there was the events of The Batman and Robin Adventures Annual 2, Superman Adventures Annual 1, and Adventures in the DC Universe Annual 1, but even so...

[@TheBlueBaron]

As someone who watched the Batman Animated universe in (in-universe) chronological order rather than when they came out, I can say that having Watched Holiday Knights after Old Wounds, Growing Pains, and all the other episodes that are set before it, I can say it flows much better from BTAS that way. Also, your quote "Yes, there were tragic, heart breaking stories like Growing Pains and Mad Love, but there were also more lighthearted stories that took inspiration from Batman's campy antics in the 50's and 60's, like Joker's Millions and Critters" is ironic, because it could apply just as well to BTAS if I simply changed the episodes listed. Yes, there were tragic, heart breaking stories like Heart of Ice and Two Face (parts 1 and 2), but there were also more lighthearted stories that took inspiration from Batman's campy antics in the 50's and 60's, like Be a Clown and I've got Batman in my Basement. It seems the kinds of stories they told differed very little from what we had seen before.

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

Never thought I'd see you bring up Teen Titans Go! on this channel.

[@SerumLake]

I love Teen Titans Go. “Dance fo yo bees” will be in my vocabulary until the day I die.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

And believe me, I wish it hadn't.

[@burner555]

​@@SerumLake WHAT

[@jackofallclaws6672]

So, does this mean that TNBA is where everyone got the idea to portray Nightwing as just Another Batman in every OTHER form of media?

[@eway44]

Was Dick even confirmed to be alive during Batman Beyond?

[@SerumLake]

Barbara said that Terry should seek him out one day to hear some of his horror stories of working with Bruce, so I assume he was still alive

[@Victor-qx3vx]

6:59 To be fair, Two-Face is probably the Batman villain with the strongest connection to Dick Grayson out of all of them (except for the Court of Owls I suppose). Because: Robin Year One and the other stories I can’t remember that cement how Grayson sees Dent in a very differently way than Bruce does. Also, Two-Face in some level resents Robin for replacing Harvey Dent as Batman’s partner in the crusade against crime.

[@SepRoyle]

I love Robin ❤️ he the best 👌 😊

[@crakatoot5480]

The New Adventures made Bruce way too much of a jerk.

[@Xehanort10]

Worst version of DCAU Bruce IMO.

[@crakatoot5480]

@@Xehanort10agreed

[@FuadFarah-s4k]

i wished it bludhaven could be in the New Batman adventures i hope Tim drake Robin could visit bludhaven and hang out with Nightwing and help him out the city and spend time together

[@ghostwarrior3878]

13:05, you mentioned in the Catwoman comic how Selena died her hair blonde but in reality it was black, is that part of the comics Canon to the show and that's the reason why we see her with the short hair. It's also weird I never understood her character design in the new show when she's in costume her skin is almost pale white at least her mouth area but here in this scene she looks normal

[@katt-the-pig]

The New Batman Adventures ultimately didn't have as long a run as BTAS. I wonder what they might've done with Nightwing had the show been given one more season.

[@SerumLake]

If you’re curious try reading Batman The Adventures Continue by Paul Dini and Alan Burnett. It’s broadly what they would’ve done if TNBA had continued (slight spoilers: it sounds like Rayson Hodd)

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@SerumLakeStill apocrypha that should be Elseworlds.

[@JanjoZone]

I don't think the similarity to Batman is a negative. It shows that somethings don't change, but that said Nightwing proved that he can continue his mission on his own.

[@mechajay3358]

Yeah, like deep down, despite his strained relationship with Batman, he still does respect him and wants to honor him in some way.

[@dancingimmortal448]

I wonder whats your veiw on the batman webtoons comic that focuses more on their day to day live. Personaly i love it, it feels cathartic like the spiderman run where hes married to marry jane and has a daughter.

[@cje499]

The one thing at irked me about the BAT-EMBARGO was that Nightwing would have worked so well in JLU as a chance to expand his character by seeing him react with the superhero community Also, the fact he barely showed in The Adventure Continues comic really annoyed me

[@NESFlint]

I didn't think you were going to mention the Dick Grayson Nightwing content in some later Batman Beyond comics since they're "dubiously canon" at best. In the Batman Beyond _Hush_ storyline Dick Grayson is cloned and that clone is Hush much in a parallel to Tim Drake's Jokerization. Either way that was a dissapointing concept now I think back on it.

[@Redem10]

I'm so annoyed we could have had a Nightwing animated Serie, but it never moved past the character concept stage, I would love to see Dick Grayson on TV not being part of a ensemble.

[@barriehannon6857]

the monk flight costume looks pretty cool to me

[@robertpendola6284]

3:39 I'M LOOKING AT YOU CLOWN 🤡

[@GeorgeCowsert]

One thing to touch up on is that Dick has remarkably better mental health than Bruce. If he was ever in a situation where he needed to kill, Dick could actually pull the trigger and not get too hung up on whether or not he's falling down a dark path. He knows why killing is a last resort option, but unlike Batman, Nightwing will actually consider it. It's a similar deal with Terry. Because both had stable lives and time to mentally develop, both of them have the mental strength needed to self-regulate. So, in a way, Nightwing truly is Batman's perfect creation. He is everything that Batman is, but without that Achilles Heel.

[@prosperotorres7965]

I think that if TNBA got a 2nd season or if Titans 03 was made w/ this verse in mind then we would’ve had more shine for DG.

[@SerumLake]

I dunno, Batman The Adventures Continue was billed as what Dini and Burnett would’ve done if TNBA continued and he was barely in it…

[@SuperPikachuLogan]

Video Essay Request - Why Did They Recast Batgirl Twice Before Batman Beyond? Batgirl's Comic Book Origins - The First Batgirl In Batman Comics Was Kathy Kane AKA Batwoman Who Made Her Comic Book Debut In Detective Comics Issue 233 During Batman's Silver Age. But The Batgirl We Come To Know And Love As Barbara Gordon Was An Original Character Created For The 1960's Adam West As Batman TV Show. Batgirl In Batman The Animated Series - Batgirl Made Her First Appearance On Batman The Animated Series In The Heart Of Steel Two Parter, But Didn't Become Batgirl Until The Shadow Of The Bat Two Parter.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

For one, Batgirl's second VA, Mary Kay Bergman unfortunately offed herself.

[@Hamzakarim-1]

Nightwing was done so dirty in this series

[@Taitosalad]

Well beyond is in the far future so why would Dick use what is essential a primitive outfit in the far future. He probably has his own version of Bruce’s high tech batsuit, that he uses in Blüdhaven, it could explain why he isn’t involved with problems in Gotham city.

[@HOSER922]

Having recently re-watched Return of the Joker, you should really do the same and listen to some of Barbara's dialogue. She casually drops that Nightwing is currently active in Bludhaven while talking to Terry at one point.

[@dimancor2925]

i guess i am going crazy, i do remember comics or cartoon where in future Dick has a daughter, maybe White Knight or Batman Beyond comics

[@SerumLake]

That’s the more recent Batman Beyond comics. They’re completely unrelated to the original cartoons.

[@dimancor2925]

@@SerumLake ok 👌🏻 thanks 😊

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

I actually enjoy Batman & Harley in spite of that scene. It's fun camp. People are against enjoying campy anymore.

[@KingTaterBugg]

I was wondering if you would do a video over Bowman from Superman the animated series due to the episode he is last seen in

[@SerumLake]

Not sure if he could sustain a whole video on his own. Maybe one about The Late Mr Kent?

[@KingTaterBugg]

@@SerumLake that is a good point, but I'd like to see a video on The late mr Kent

[@SWIFTO_SCYTHE]

He learned Invisibility and Limited actual Flight wow

[@SerumLake]

Shame we never saw him be invisible in the show. Unless… oh my god! 🤯

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Even I think the invisibility bit seems far-fetched.

[@ericmiller93]

Nightwing is that dude.

[@A1ml33y]

I like to think Nightwing was with the Teen Titans in the DCAU hence why we don't see him much ( like if there's a DCAU version of the Titans ... Speech, Donna Troy, Starfire, Rafe. , Cyborg , Kid Flash & Bumblebee) Fighting Slade & Trigun

[@Cri_Jackal]

Definitely needs to be something they establish in the future, if possible. I also imagine Dick probably died in battle, hence why he doesn't show up in Beyond, and fighting Trigun is as good a timr as any to make a last stand.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Actually, Tim Drake/Robin II would be one of the members of this offscreen DCAU Teen Titans, alongside Beast Boy (mentioned in Static Shock), Speedy/Red Arrow (JLU's "Patriot Act"), and maybe even Impulse and a female Cyborg (a love letter to that Justice League pilot concept). Either way, Teen Titans the cartoon isn't part of the DCAU, but it may be a secret sequel to The Batman 2004.

[@AnAverageGoblin]

@@Cri_Jackal Dick is implied to be alive in Beyond though

[@billtree52]

Where's the link to the teen titans clips you promised?

[@SerumLake]

It’s in the info button that appears in the top right of the video. Alternatively you can look at the list of related videos listed in the description of the video.

[@kimeraclan3135]

Damn, and I really liked Robin/Nightwing! I thought he was a great foil to Batsey, and not a redundant self insert for the audience. Good thing Nightwing never had a side kick of his own. If he ended up brutalizing a family-man-thung in front of Flamebird, ruining their relationship he'd march up to Bruce in the middle of a rainy night and be all like: "Why can't I escape you!?"

[@1001johny]

Aha so this is why there is so much confusion about Babs and Bruce. And people attribute it to Timm because of his involvement with the Killing Joke adaptation. Or at least think its his idea since there was this weird sexual tension Babs seemed to have towards Bruce in the MotBW film, which as i understand it was written by Alan Burnett. Do you have any insights into this odd element that has plauged fandom?

[@SerumLake]

It’s the downside of Bruce Timm being given all of the credit for BTAS’ success. Some pundits think that he was also responsible for the dream Barbara had in Batgirl Returns, where she saved and kissed Batman. I should add that he is quite vocal about how it was a team effort, and gives praise to people like Alan Burnett, Eric Radomski, Paul Dini, Ted Blackman, Kevin Altieri, and so on. But, you know how people sometimes don’t let the facts get in the way of a bad opinion.

[@zemox2534]

More like a misguided opinion. Timm Co created Batman TAS along with Eric and it was the efforts of Alan, Paul; Shirley, Romano and the rest of the crew and cast that made the series great. It was a group effort.

[@1001johny]

@@zemox2534 Fellow, is that a Lupin III profile image?

[@The_Phantasm]

​​@@SerumLake It's certainly a far cry from Bob Kane who was infamous for taking credit for things he didn't do or misinforming others about the actual amount he contributed. Bill Finger wasn't even officially credited as Batman's co-creator until 2015.

[@zemox2534]

​@@1001johnyIt is a Lupin the 3rd painting. I used it as my profile picture.

[@TransPandaArt]

🪽 Poor Dick, always relegated to be the Night...wingman. 🥁 Looking forward to Tim Drake! Sorta kinda. The abuse he receives made ourselves, along with a number of other people online, feel that how BB:RotJ handled it can basically be interpreted as a sort of plurality situation... up to a point. Obv you can't electroshock an alter to death (lord knows they've tried), but it's interesting how it's handled.

[@Pikashades]

I blame the Bat-Embargo for refusing to let Nightwing appear again in the remaining DCAU shows like Justice League and JLU... and the creators who went "NAH" on using Bat family members in those two shows in episodes they could have appeared in. Like For the Man Who has Everything(I have done a video talking about it) and that episode with Huntress, Black Canary, Green Arrow and Question which was supposedly meant as a Birds of Prey episode before they refused to make Barbara become Oracle TEMPORARILY. The least we got was that blink and you miss cameo of Nightwing in the Grudge Match episode.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

honestly, thank God they weren't any Batfamily in JLU.

[@Pikashades]

@@Rengokuo4o6 "Which God are you talking about?"

[@Rengokuo4o6]

@@Pikashades The one and only true God, Yahweh.

[@Pikashades]

@@Rengokuo4o6 I would assume that one to have bigger issues to deal with telling Bruce Timm to ax Robin from For A Man Who Has Everything.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

@@Pikashades ??? Don't understand your comment. My comment is simple. I am happy and showing gratitude for no batkids being in the JLU. Thank God is a statement usually denoting gratitude. However since i am Christian, i thank God for everything. No matter how little it may be or far from religion the thing may be.

[@ProfessorAragorn]

Eh I liked Batman: Harley Quinn . . . the musical number and reprise of all the BTAS henchmen in the villain bar was great. Sure it's just a worse version of Harleyquinade but it also has Swamp Thing so . . . I think because we never see what happens to Dick Grayson we are left with the impression he never left Batman's shadow but considering that all of post Robin we see is in TNBA it's tainted by having to include Batman. It's like saying The Creeper is a Batman villain if we never saw his appearances in Justice League. But I'm inclined to agree that Dick in an attempt to not become Bruce Wayne/Batman became is surrogate father. I just wish we had more of a Father/Son connection that's developed in the last 30 years of comics.

[@FuadFarah-v7t]

He later left Gotham City to move to bludhaven and became Nightwing i wished Tim drake Robin could visit bludhaven in dcau

[@benjamincarrillo6328]

I like to think that the reason we don't ear about Dick anymore is that he found someone that's not messed in the head like the rest of his "family" settled down and had kids.

[@mlgodzilla4206]

He still couldn’t escape the mullet

[@RaisinHook]

ironicaly the Batman from Batman: The Animated Series and someone from Teen Titans Go! will both be in MultiVersus altho it's likely to be Starfire instead of Roben

[@BottomBunkArt]

Couldn't escape the shadow of that mullet

[@alexlemonds2838]

To me, this is the perfect way to continue the DCAU without Kevin Conroy as Batman. Focus on any dangling threads. What did Dick do during the period in-between Unlimited and Beyond? According to Barbara Gordon in ROTJ he'd established himself in another city by that time, presumably Bludhaven. It'd be interesting to explore his life there. What enemies and challenges he faced. It's true, we can't have Batman himself appear, but if Teen Titans '03 taught us anything it's that the implication of him can be just as powerful. Also, really just the perfect launching platform for other spinoffs. For example: if the Poison Ivy from TNA-Batman Vs Harley Quinn onwards is a clone, then it would be neat to follow-up on the REAL Pamela Isley's current whereabouts. Perhaps she's gotten back into the eco-terrorist racket, but is more subtle about it now.

[@matthewphillipsbetts8470]

Nowadays, I feel he's better off with the titans, even for the dcau version. That felt better justice than the non canon pregnant barb comic

[@michaelandreipalon359]

New Helluva Boss Season 2 ep or new MandaloreGaming review involving the unfortunately lackluster Homeworld 3... ah, kriff it, I'll pick Serum Lake first. 1:30: Him basing it on Kryptonian culture really needs to be an animated show thing someday. 1:37: Please not this costume, Grayson! 1:38-1:55: Just gonna look away from this. 4:09: Dick Grayson's uniform in his younger offscreen days, even. 4:30: You really should talk about the definitive plot order of the DCAU someday. Case in point, Batman Beyond works better on production order and not airdate, though Justice League Season 2 and Justice League Unlimited Season 1 elude me a bit. 5:25: The trauma of which explains "Over the Edge". Adaptation expansion side material can be a double-edged sword to big fans. Trust me on this, a big fan of expanded universes like Star Wars Legends and Bungie's Halo. At least Batman wore his B: TAS outfit on the first issues of The Lost Years. Why didn't they make him wear that in TNBA? 6:54: I assume this is after the tragedy of "Two of a Kind". Wish Nightwing kept the flying monk outfit's hood. 8:36: This scene. Why didn't they also include it in the ep? Feels anticlimactic, seeing it introduced with no fanfare in "You Scratch My Back". "Animal Act" (and by extension, JLU's "Dead Reckoning) works better with The Batman and Robin Adventures issue 15 and Gotham Adventures issue 6, as an aside. 11:06: Batman Adventures 2003 gives this more context. 11:30: He may be using a new Nightwing look and/or leading his Outsiders just like how the old man Bruce Wayne is being the Oracle to Terry McGinnis, for all we know. 11:57: Some elements of this should be deemed DCAU canon, like Dick getting badly injured and receiving cyber-monocle, all the while still being apathetic to Bruce enough that he unnoticeably leaves him while he's reminiscing the gloried past. Sorry, but Batman and Harley Quinn is apocrypha for me too, not unlike the Denning-verse in Star Wars Legends and a lot of the 343i Halo stuff (though exceptions like The Forerunner Saga and Shadow of Intent exist). I'm always miffed that the DCAU Robins don't have bo staffs, while Nightwing doesn't have his twin stun batons. Same with Batman not having his memory cloth capes. Oh, can't wait for the DCAU Tim Drake to be shone the spotlight.

[@luisz0339]

I really want to know why you think Holiday Knights would be a better final episode. You mentioned this in 3 different videos as far as I know.

[@SerumLake]

Because it spoils that there’s a new Robin without an introduction to him, ruins the surprise in Growing Pains, and the last scene of Batman and Commissioner Gordon drinking coffee is a much better ending than Two-Face sitting in a cell muttering “guilty” to himself.

[@biguy617]

I would like to see you do a video on characters from the Teen Titans animated series

[@SerumLake]

Maybe one day

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

1:18 Who is this lady?

[@SerumLake]

That’s Terra from the Teen Titans

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

@@SerumLake Thanks.👍

[@MutantsInDisguise]

When I was younger, I hated Grayson for treating Bruce like shit, but now that I'm older, I realized he was right, abd his words about Wayne age like wine. Wayne only cares about his childish, unfulfillable crusade.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

Concerning old wounds, he was just being emotional.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

@@Rengokuo4o6 that doesn't keep Grayson from doing fine at preferring a life of his own to committing himself to an unachievable crusade.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

@@MutantsInDisguise THEN WHY DID HE DO JUST THAT?? THIS IS WHAT I NEVER UNDERSTOOD ABOUT GRAYSON AND WHY I NEVER LIKED THE GUY. ALL THAT WHINING ABOUT BATMAN'S MISSION, YOU'LL WOULD THINK HE WOULD FINALLY DROP THE SUPERHERO STUFF AND START A FAMILY, FOCUS ON HIS PERSONAL LIFE. BUT ALL HE DOES IS GO BACK TO THE MISSION. WHEN YOU MEET GRAYSON IN THE SERIES, IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL LIFE JUST A SECOND RATE BATMAN.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

@@MutantsInDisguise In the comics they make Batman a jerk just for the sole purpose of pushing Dick Grayson as the more empathetic one. Glad they didn't go that route in the animation so Nightwing fans realise just how useless he truly is.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

@@Rengokuo4o6 useless? Not only is Nightwing one of the most cherished heroes in the DC Universe; he has proven himself to be superior to Batman in every sense. But a nihilist jerk like you would never understand that. 🤣

[@CoenGearhart]

12:11 I know they weren’t canon

[@MatthewK122]

Strange nightwing doesn't have he utility belt in dcu

[@michaelandreipalon359]

And also those sweet stun batons.

[@chairannmcqueen1620]

In my version of nightwing he have one in silver every time I draw him.

[@nightshadebrown7593]

It's crazy Batman got Barbara Pregnant and told her we have to tell Dick. Damn bro that's like your sons girl so not cool. He's one of my favorite superheroes but Batman is my favorite.

[@zemox2534]

I do not care what anyone says, Bat and Quinn is poorly written fan fiction rubbish and a bloody insult to all the characters! But I digress. . . Nightwing was seriously underutilised in TNBA. I do not understand why writers (with the exception of Chuck Dixion) neglect Dick and his growth as NW? Would it have been so bloody hard to write an episode focus entirely on Nightwing without Batman getting involved? The fact that there were plans for a NW spin off just makes the neglect of Grayson even worse.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

Because he's trash.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I wholly agree with you on that incoherent movie, zemox.

[@AnAverageGoblin]

absolutely no one would say otherwise about Bat and Quinn. that movie is just god awful and basically a predecessor for Harley's equally bad show

[@garou12]

the idea that the robin identity isn't dick's own seems a little ridiculous because first the costume is like the yellow daredevil suit: made from the costume that his parents left him and 2nd it was dick's idea to call himself robin in the first place bruce did was unwilling to bring him into the war on crime to begin with (based on the modern telling of his origin). the idea of robin transitioning into nightwing as a way for dick to grow up makes a lot of sense as wolfman did make it sound like dick was trying to put away childish things and become a man. but yes i agree w u the tas version could never step out of bruce's shadow.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

If only Miles Morales could get the same treatment as a character in the comics.

[@dudepool7530]

I never hated Bruce Tim. Yet he has stated he basically has the intentions to push my buttons, for no other reason than his own entertainment. Doesnt seem like someone worth defending. Making something divisive, just to make something devisive? No thanks.

[@Xehanort10]

If you think about it Dick hasn't been well adapted in anything. In the Schumacher films they made him too old with Chris O Donnell playing him. And with how campy the Batman Forever Two Face was you couldn't take Dick wanting to kill him seriously. He also spends Batman & Robin whining that Ivy loves him and that Bruce is jealous of him. Arkham Nightwing's only plot relevance is in Knight. And the awful live action Titans show had a Dick Grayson who was more like Jason Todd with Dick's name.

[@legoben98productions]

Titans dick was more like comic dick, dick was more of the aggressive one compare to Jason (being robin gives me magic) in their early years as robin and dick’s early start as nightwing especially during the disco outfit era Batman forever dick wanting revenge on two face (despite his outlandish attitude, was shown to be psychotic and was trigger happy if it weren’t for his obsession with his coin decision) Batman & robin used actual comic ivy’s tactics of using pheromones to manipulate them, till Bruce snaps him out of it Even the other adaptations like 2004 the Batman, teen titans, even Batman the brave and the bold, showed dick on both sides of him

[@nellidivina5280]

Why kill a criminal when the criminal can be crippled?

[@nightwing1491]

I prefer the 2003 version of the character because he actually branches out instead of wanting to go back to gotham

[@nahte123456]

Not a huge fan of the Nightwing outfit here...bit to black, seems like a blob at times rather than a person. I'll always like the character of Dick, but I reiterate what I said in the Robin episode. I think there's a reason he was the only one really left out of Beyond, he just never truly integrated himself into the story. It'd have been nice if he had, I think the 2 Justice League series, and the characters of, does kind of suffer that Dick, Barbara, and Tim never really got into them. Dick kept getting pushed away while Barbara and Tim are defined almost entirely by Batman even though I don't think that's what any of them, Batman included, would want.

[@srstriker6420]

Well you think that his line in old wounds episode by saying Batman is the Manipulator of all manipulator a bit over the top because this Batman never did that only once as he was willing to cross the line on Zucco but it’s not okay when Professor Hamilton compare Superman to Lucifer because how he mistreated him in Legacy episode and especially that not canon thing in Batman Beyond is why compared Bruce Timm to George Lucas and J.K Rowling.

[@zemox2534]

Except Timm did not sell out like George Lucas

[@michaelandreipalon359]

And at least Timm isn't slowly becoming an enemy to decent civilization, unlike Rowling and Orson Scott Card... still like their Harry Potter books (barring Cursed Child, I guess) and Ender's Game+Speaker for the Dwad respectively though. In the meantime, Lucas was still a hack even before Disney showed up. Just look at his misguided Flash Gordon nostalgia besmirching the ever awesome General Grievous in Revenge of the Sith onwards, for one.