Does Batman Need Robin? | Batman The Animated Series

[@SerumLake]

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[@glenngriffon8032]

I think you're being a little unfair. The fact of the matter is that Robin is only as necessary as the writers make him out to be. They could have written stories that were more Robin centric and focused, but Batman is the main character and they have to show that. They also can't undermine Batman because how would it look for the "world's greatest detective" to be outshined by his adopted son? You can certainly feel like Robin brings nothing to the table but i would lay the fault of that on the writers.

[@adilmyrat3210]

Hey, was Spider-man at 6:09? He punched Spidey in the nuts?!

[@aidanrandall7438]

Hey I got an episode idea for you. DO you think the Creeper deserved to have more appearances instead of just one?

[@thecowboyofoklahoma5866]

Pretty sure Dick was older than Bruce when he lost his parents at the time.

[@BM-wh5qk]

Without Robin, Batman would never understand early 90s computer games.

[@WarhawkBeyond2040]

Robin has been an important part of the Batman legacy since the 40s and adds so much to the character. As Dick Grayson, he brings out the fatherly side of Bruce Wayne and as Robin, he adds personality to Batman's brooding mood while helping to keep him grounded in reality by reminding him that there is a life beyond crime fighting. As far as the show is concerned, Robin adds the family dynamic and fun aspects to the mix but it also proves that the show is so strong that it can thrive with or without him but Batman having a young partner doesn't hurt

[@The_Phantasm]

The idea of Batman and what Batman stands for, would never be there if he had never been there for Dick Grayson as the father he never truly had and it's because of that, that Dick was able to grow and form healthy relationships with people instead of lingering in the darkness which in turn helped make Dick an equally complex character. One of the of the aspects of Batman that I consider to be one of the most essential parts of the character is the concept of found family and how he is given a chance to be a father figure by raising them and inadvertently creating the family he never had. A lot of Batman's personal development is either undercut or non-existent without them. By them being there it doesn't mean Batman can't have stories where he more at the center. Batman is the best person he can be because of his allies, even though there are instances where it becomes a bit too expansive (take Duke Thomas for example). The truth is that Batman would simply not be the character we love today without his family and honestly to say that he can handle pretty much anything without any of them or that he should never rely on them seems a bit nearsighted and would feel more like character regression.

[@zemox2534]

I agree. Bruce can handle some threats on his own but sometimes even he needs help. The bond between Bruce and his partners is best displayed in the S4 finale of The Batman cartoon with this line of dialogue: BATMAN: "It was never about not needing you. It was about not losing you."

[@mrheroprimes]

I remember there's this one Gotham adventures comic where the Phantom Stranger shows Bruce what his life would have been like if his parents didn't die that night and it shows that things would have turned out pretty badly for Richard Grayson his parents would still end up dead and he would end up becoming a crooked Carney, Before eventually becoming a criminal

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@mrheroprimesGotta love "For Want of A Nail" stuff like that story.

[@freshbread4039]

From a Doylist perspective: I saw the Robins as a source of quips during fights. The writers wanted to distance Batman from the Adam West campiness, so when it's just Batman taking on crime alone he's stoic, he's focused on the mission. He's no longer in the business of trading alliterations and puns, so the rogues are left to bear the brunt of one-liners, and Batman doesn't usually give them anything to work with or bounce off of. Sometimes that can result in a lack of chemistry between the characters.

[@The_Phantasm]

​@@freshbread4039 Well clearly this hasn't been the case for decades. The characters (meaning the Bat Family) have become so developed and rich in character building that quips is the least they can provide. And they very clearly completely walked back on distancing themselves from Robin considering that that barely ever even gets acknowledged within the past 20 years.

[@andydrew3834]

Robin isn’t necessary but when written well, he doesn’t ruin any of the stories he’s in. It’s all about how he’s used, not when he’s used.

[@theleonpasta7336]

I agree, when done right Robin either doesn't affect/bring down whatever story he's in, or makes said story better by being there, if Robin "makes the story bad" then you don't know how to write Robin, cuz at worst Robin should be an unnecessary but un-minded addition, and at best he should add another perspective/"angle" to the story that improves it in some way

[@Coconut_Prrson]

Wrong. Without a Robin, you're just completely losing the point of Batman. Read "Dark Victory" if you wanna understand why Batman needs a Robin

[@tillburr6799]

@@Coconut_Prrson nope

[@tenjiurichero]

*I Agree*

[@bensoncheung2801]

143rd 👍

[@Lowkeylie]

Dick Grayson is an important part of the Batman lore to add some humanity and a softer side to Bruce. But just as much, he is there to highlight Bruce’s failings, both to him personally, and by virtue of contrast with the way that Dick grows, often in ways that Bruce never could. Unlike Bruce, while Dick is marred by trauma he is not defined by it. He is somebody that shows the softer side to Bruce, that shows he’s not all edged and vengeance. He’s an integral part of Batman, and I’m glad they included him.

[@Compucles]

It's a lot like Bruce's eventual relationship with Terry McGinnis.

[@goni2493]

Don't worry, The Teen Titans show in the 2000's did Grayson justice.

[@SerumLake]

Absolutely. I’d even say that Teen Titans Go has a lot of fun with Robin.

[@thebloodedge284]

True

[@panzercreed5417]

​@SerumLake the 2000's Titans show may have had a lot of goofy moments but it had some very deep moments too. Tackling some pretty heavy subjects. If you run out of vid ideas I'd say giving Teen Titans a watch may help ya out.

[@thegladve]

​@@SerumLakewhile I usually find myself agreeing with a lot of your views but I have to draw the line on teen titans go, that show's humor aggravates me to no end for being too obnoxious, however if you were talking about the tie in comic by the same name, well that's a whole different story.

[@brianpembrook9164]

Teen Titans Go is a pile of crap.

[@ThePlayTyperGuy]

Batman needs Robin. He’s sort of the junior detective to Batman’s seasoned veteran, which is a dynamic that has thrived in action movies and cop shows for decades. Batman needs someone to talk to and Robin is able to go out in the field with him, unlike Alfred. I also think the Batman and Robin relationship offers more storytelling possibilities than the more straightforward Batman/Alfred relationship -- Alfred is usually always depicted in control and like a paternal figure.

[@tyraydew5668]

A lot of Batman’s character development in the Animated Series hinges on the conflict between his antisocial tendencies and his performance as a father figure. Without Robin, Batman tends to become a static character who can gleefully court self-destruction because there isn’t anyone relying on him. With Robin, Batman is forced to consider the future despite his death wish. He’s trying to rebuild the family he lost and he has to love, nurture and teach this boy to do so. Batman can usually put the bad guy away, but he’s rarely up to the task of fatherhood. The question of his capabilities as a warped family man introduces more tension into the story. You don’t know if he’ll succeed in that regard or not. It’s more dynamic and human even if the kid sidekick thing doesn’t make sense in a realistic context. Batman’s operatic and it becomes nonsensical if you apply realistic scrutiny to it. It works best when it’s emotionally resonant, not shackled to some vain attempt at “realism.”

[@The_Phantasm]

I couldn't have said it nearly as profound.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

That's not a bad take on how to use Robin, but I don't really remember them doing anything like that in the series.

[@tyraydew5668]

@@cheezemonkeyeaterBatman as emotionally repressed patriarch is a prominent theme and source of conflict throughout the DCAU. Nearly every episode that focuses on Dick or Tim highlights their strained relationship with Bruce. Bruce’s tendencies as a father figure and the resentment he instills in his adoptive family members remains a focal point in Batman Beyond.

[@LoganTocker]

I like the way Robin talked in this show "thanks for saving my bacon robin (deep voice), Ay No Problamo Batman (normal voice)!

[@caedrewan]

my brother and I say this one all the time

[@LoganTocker]

@@caedrewan cuz it's funny

[@LoganTocker]

OMG I can't believe it got 68 likes 🤣

[@Tacom4ster]

My fave Batman and Robin duo was 2000s The Batman, it was proper character growth for Bruce from angsty loner, to a caring optimistic mentor Like we start as Robert Pattison but we age into Adam West

[@zemox2534]

I agree. The growth of Bruce is one of the reasons why I enjoy The Batman so much.

[@Tuning3434]

I liked how they handled Robin in BTAS. He is not integral to most stories, but that is a positive because he's written as a separate entity instead of purely being the side-kick. Not integral to the plot, not a plot device, but a separate character that inhabits the same universe as Batman does. It always feel like a bonus when he appears. Robin's Reckoning was the only real story they had to do in BTAS, establishing that Dick while knowing the same pain, became a more rounded individual than Bruce. I also liked how they used Dick / Nightwing to shine on Bruce's / Batman's dangerous aspects in The New Batman Adventures as was further developed in JL / JLU and Batman Beyond. The fallout was a good callout to how dark Bruce became, how much he was willing to sacrifice for the mission, and him becoming less aware on how deep he allowed his fellow team members to follow him down that path. Batman Beyond was possible because Terry was sufficiently light in tone (and mature enough) to not get himself dragged into the deep as cynic Old Bruce threatened to do. Same dedication, same devotion, but not as damaged as Bruce was and allowed himself to become. I personally liked early BTAS Bruce more, but I don't think that Bruce would work in a world inhabited by superpowered villains and superhero's. That Bruce would have respected what he could do as Bruce more than the perils he would throw himself in as Batman, and would allow his JL teammates to do more of the heavy lifting, which would totally ruin the Trifecta of Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman.

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

In a way, I think the episode Lockdown does a good job of demonstrating why Robin is needed. While Batman is fighting Lockdown, Robin is rescuing the people that Lockdown had taken prisoner. That's where Robin shines best, I think. Ironically, the darkly dressed Batman does a great job distracting villains while the brightly dressed Robin sneaks around saving people. Batman tackles the main threat while Robin deals with the problems that require more finesse and less force.

[@TheAzulmagia]

I prefer Robin's role in Second Chance, where Bruce is insisting he has to do everything alone in order to help Harvey, only for Robin to show up and help Bruce when he needs it most.

[@Compucles]

Robin can also be useful as Mission Control, such as when he helped guide Batman through Riddler's virtual reality world.

[@DonWeaselYeehawEdition]

I personally believe that Robin is necessary to Batman’s life- maybe not as a partner, but as a friend who understands what Batman does and the toll it takes on him. Alfred can comfort Bruce and support him, but really only Robin, especially Dick, can support BATMAN when he comes to close to the edge. “I Am the Night” is a perfect example of how Robin is certainly not essential to every episode or villain Batman goes up against, but he is essential to the show as a whole. When Batman has friends, whether it be the JL or Robin or whoever, he prospers. But by Batman Beyond we see exactly what happens when Bruce pushes those friends away. Great video as always:)

[@glenngriffon8032]

That's how i feel. Batman and Dick both know the torture and torment of losing their parents in their childhoods to Gotham's criminal elements and it's because of Batman's guidance and training, helping Dick to face the pain, channel it, use it, and turn it towards something more positive that Dick is able to move on from the loss. We all know the trope: Bruce Wayne is a small child who died in crime alley with his parents and who was reborn into a spirit of vengeance and justice called Batman. Bruce Wayne is the disguise, Batman is the genuine identity. This is not the case for Dick Grayson. He is Dick Grayson. He fights crime as Nightwing but is able to separate his vigilante life from his civilian life. And i think that is because of Batman's friendship and mentorship of him.

[@DonWeaselYeehawEdition]

@@glenngriffon8032 Well said! I completely agree, and I never really thought about that. Robin and eventually Nightwing is everything Batman couldn’t be because he didn’t have a Batman to guide him through his pain.

[@glenngriffon8032]

@@DonWeaselYeehawEdition I mean he had Alfred but Alfred was very different.

[@jacktoma21]

I really like the unique sounding voice that Loren Lester gave Dick. When I read him in the comics I always use that slight nasal sound to help distinguish him from Jason or Tim. I also like how he was able to alter his performance to sound more mature when he moved on to Nightwing. Him and Conroy had very good chemistry that sold the relationship. But overall I do agree if you cut him, the show wouldn’t be much worse for it.

[@SerumLake]

Loren Lester probably is the best version of Robin in TV or movies. Although, come to think of it, there isn’t that much competition…

[@jacktoma21]

@@SerumLake I know there’s a good amount of love for Dicks portrayal in Teen Titans and the Batman cartoons but I never really watched much of those.

[@SerumLake]

@@jacktoma21 they’re definitely worth a watch!

[@The_Phantasm]

​@@SerumLakeYoung Justice I thought had an excellent Dick Grayson.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

A shame it seems to have become a detriment come the Batman and Harley Quinn movie, since he sounded a bit too old there.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

9:06 You're right! That's the whole point of Bruce training Dick Grayson, as well the other Robins. Bruce sees himself in those kids, understanding their grief and pain. So, in order for them to not become emotionally traumatized and unable to move from the pain like him, Batman adopts them and teaches how to use those feelings and energy to help others, while, at the same time, given them a sense of family and father figure to inspire the kids to improve and become better version of themselves. Dick Grayson represents this better than any other sidekick, growing from the boy wonder role, to a independent hero, a leader who is respected by others instead of feared.

[@dlxmarks]

I know this is crossing the DC animation streams but I think this bit from _Young Justice_ is appropriate: Batman: "Robin needed to help bring the men who murdered his family to justice." Wonder Woman: "So he could turn out like you?" Batman: "So that he wouldn't."

[@1000jjwalker]

One scene I loved that you didn't mention was Bruce and Dick watching a Wonderful Life at Christmas. It was a great humanising moment between the two. It was just a really neat moment.

[@icon_uk624]

Yeah, it's mentioned as a story which would have felt the same if he hadn't been included, but I have to disagree with our host there, Robin's more upbeat nature sells the positive side of the family/holiday theme, in a nice counterbalance to the negative side that the Joker exploits.

[@christianbryan6961]

1:23 Huh, so Zorro/The Shadow and Robin Hood make up the Dynamic Duo… Never thought about that before. That’s cool.

[@cinemaarts8795]

I always wanted to see an animated series centered around the DCAU Nightwing, didn't like how he disappeared from this continuity when there was so much more story they could've told with him.

[@ngrjordi2352]

He got Demoted to Extra treatment in TNBA

[@zemox2534]

​@ngrjordi2352 it seems most writers just do not like Grayson

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Well, there's the tie-in comics to satisfy.

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

​@@ngrjordi2352and literally one background appearance in JL, as a random freedom fighter in the AU where Vandal Savage won WWII.

[@brianpughsley8680]

Me too.

[@necro-esque666]

As a big Robin fan, I’ve always been somewhat disappointed that Robin didn’t have much of a role in BTAS. That being said, the episodes where he was implemented used him very well, so I feel that the quality somewhat makes up for the lack of quantity.

[@leonardoavalos1]

Thanks!

[@SerumLake]

No, thank you 🫡

[@Drekal684]

I recently saw a youtube short discussing a case where Batman had a blind spot to a murderer, that Nightwing and Robin both worked out before him. You see, Batman couldn't imagine that a young boy might do that to their own parents. So yeah, I think he does need Robin.

[@tylerbertram7065]

While I like Dick Grayson in BTAS I preferred him in TNBA because of how far he has come as a solo hero.

[@TrumbullComic]

I think the format that BTAS & the 1970s Batman comics had is the perfect compromise: Dick Grayson is away at college, so Batman is a solo act most of the time, but anytime you want Robin to guest star, he can be there easily, as he's only an hour or two away.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Honestly? It’s all in how the writers handle Bruce and Dick (like anything else). In the hands of capable writers/actors (like most of the writers of BTAS and Loren Lester, Dick’s voice actor), Dick humanizes Bruce and helps him avoid falling into darkness and also acts as a reason for Bruce to continue his crusade. In less capable hands? He’s just A Brightly Colored Decoy who Batman has to constantly save. Not every story needs to have Robin in it. But if given a chance to shine, capable writers/actors bring shades of light to a dark story.

[@Scrinwaipwr]

One thing I like about BTAS Dick Grayson Robin is he was a part-time Robin who spent most of his time away at university because Bruce and Alfred made sure he put his education first and had as normal an upbringing as such extraordinary circumstances as being raised by Batman can provide. We got Robin but we didn't get too much of him.

[@videocrowsnest5251]

In the early episodes, Robin does certainly increase the pun counter of the show by quite a bit. He could easily give the Riddler a run for his money when it comes to puns!

[@geronimus-prime]

Worthless? Perish the thought! Robin's a handy device to prevent _The Dark Knight_ from having to talk directly to the reader in square captions all the time. About the precise degree of rancour he's feeling for this story's villain. And also about exactly how many broken ribs he's got, whilst still managing to kick-box like a 28-year-old Jackie Chan. However, I think you've hit the target with: _Ethically questionable._ Never mind Robin's tender age. How can any of us who've seen _Tiny Toons'_ « _Decoy, The Pig Hostage_ » argument in their _Bat-Duck_ episode continue to suspend our disbelief about that costume?

[@SerumLake]

I welcome any and all references to Tiny Toons!

[@mesektet5776]

I’d say Robin is vital though not quite as a partner, aside from The Strange Case Of Bruce Wayne, where Robin is absolutely essential to defusing Hugo Strange’s leverage, I’ve rewatched the DCAU, Batman to Justice League: Unlimited and the difference between On Leather Wings Batman and Destroyer is stark. Been rewatching to see where the change happens, and I think I see it, Season 3 of BTAS is where the ultra competent use-your-head Batman has developed and you can see it starting in season two aka the “Batman and Robin” rebranding. I’d argue seeing his adopted son on the prowl with him is what pushed BTAS Batman into maturing to the best version of this character. BTAS Robin is vital if not as a co-puncher, certainly as a motivator.

[@SerumLake]

I think that Alfred could’ve posed as Bruce Wayne. That’s one of the reasons why they gave him stage acting experience in the comics. Although, come to think of it, I don’t think they ever mentioned that in BTAS…

[@Joe_Kerr_9797]

For the most part Batman can handle things by himself but sometimes he does need help like someone like Alfred, Gordon and Robin, it's important for Batman despite mostly working alone needs someone to watch his back.

[@geraldstephens6612]

This was discussed back in the mid -1960s as DC Comics was revamping Batman....

[@NobleWolf]

Sometimes a Redundant Character feels more real then making a perfectly tight story. Life is messy and soemtimes a bit of a mess makes the story better

[@ftwsam2246]

I always liked Nightwing more than Robin, as a kid I liked the idea of growing up and learning from Batman and going on his own. Y'know like how kids eventually grow up and leave the nest.

[@placeholderdoe]

Not every batman story can work with a Robin. But Robin is a very interesting character, Batman withdrew from himself(Bruce Wayne) and society, but Robin jokes and goes to university. Bruce Wayne became more of Batman than who he originally was, but to my knowledge the Robins have never had this problem to a large extent

[@GusCraft460]

I don’t think Batman needs Robin, but I think Batman is improved by Robin, and all the bat family.

[@flashmusicarchive]

Apparently people had the same thought in the 90s to a point where he was mocked on comedy shows and parodies just for being in the series. Personally I don't mind Robin's purpose since as a kid I did like his quips and remarks on how he himself deals with the weekly plot when he actually shows up.

[@EliteEasyE]

The tears I shed in Robin's Reckoning and Old Wounds say yes...

[@shikishinobi]

On the whole, I think Robin is very down played across most media. No episode of Adam West’s Batman features Robin in the title, but Batgirl does get a title. Robin only captures one main villain in BTAS, and that is the Clock King (no challenge). He is present in all Riddler episodes, and I feel that is important. Riddler couldn’t be tackled on his own in his first two appearances. Robin is key at certain points where Batman clearly didn’t get the answers, such as the key door in the maze, the hand of fate, or how to navigate parts of the computer world. Now, of course you could make Batman smart enough to deal, but then it makes Riddler less of a threat if Batman is waltzing through the Riddlers puzzles like nothing is phasing him. I’m a Robin fan, I accept your overview, however I enjoy his presence.

[@TheSameGoobyGuy]

Fun fact: when Robin was first introduced, Batman sales doubled

[@Stopmotionguy2049-cf2bp]

When I was writing my Robin I wanted to age Robin up, he’s 18 and chooses to go out and beat up criminals. Also I liked the idea of him having autonomy but learning to grow up, which I think teens can identify with

[@SleepingGroke]

In BTAS, sure, Robin is more of a quest character than a main star. Overall, however, I would say that the various Robins tend to bring the best fort in Batman. With Dick Grayson we get a fun Dynamic Duo. Jason Todd shows that Batman will be the one to remind to work with the law against Jasons more violent nature. Tim Drake brings in someone with deductionskills that rival Batmans. And with Damian, it's basically Jason 2.0.

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

Except for Stephanie, who got screwed sideways by DiDio hating women more than your average shonen manga writer.

[@beatlesfansam]

Nice analysis, Luke. I agree that Robin wasn't a necessary character in BTAS/TNBA, though I'd put Robin's Reckoning a bit higher in my list of favorite episodes. I definitely prefer this version of Robin over the 1960s TV series version (though that was enjoyable as well).

[@SerumLake]

Yeah, I can see why you’d feel that way. The BTAS crew clearly wanted their Robin to be likeable, but not at all campy or silly. I think they did a good job with him overall.

[@beatlesfansam]

@@SerumLake Also, I enjoyed Loren Lester's voice acting. I think it fit this version of the character well.

[@Xehanort10]

12:56 DCAU Dick was ruined by Bruce Timm's obsession since Bruce not telling him Barbara was Batgirl and the creepy Bruce and Barbara relationship meant Bruce and Dick never reconciled.

[@ThePlayTyperGuy]

I first discovered Batgirl through the Adam West show where she is clearly depicted as a potential romantic interest for Batman. There’s even an episode where Barbara chaperones a gathering of Dick’s friends. Dick was depicted as a high school student and Barbara a professional adult (at least a decade older). Yes, Bruce was about a decade older than Barbara, but they were both adults and Dick still a kid. I realize that in the comics they were closer in age (though that itself was inconsistent -- she’s at least 25 or so in the Silver Age because she becomes a Congress member). I think DCAU made the mistake of depicting Barbara and Dick as exactly the same age (both college students) so while her interest in Bruce probably made sense (he was more mature than Dick), it seemed to cross a big line for Bruce to ever pursue a relationship with his son’s ex-girlfriend and his closest friend’s daughter.

[@Bee-gc2do]

​@@ThePlayTyperGuy i prefer dick/babs but can be ok with bruce/babs when babs is decently older than dick (like at least 10+ years) but it was super messy in the dcau. Making dick/babs the same age and romantically involved makes bruce look like a massive douche messing around with his adoptive son's ex girlfriend and a bit of a creep. Lego Batman did better than the dcau by making her roughly bruce's age and a capable adult way older than dick.

[@Dhampir101980]

Batman didn’t want Robin to go along with him at the end of “ I am the night “ because Bruce felt that it was his fault that Jim was shot; a “ mistake “ that only he can “ correct “. It was Bruce’s way of mentally putting the cowl back on and re-committing to his mission

[@icon_uk624]

Which to me makes it interesting that the original storyline of "I am the Night", didn't have Gordon being shot, but Robin himself. If you think Batman is going grim when his friend is shot, IMAGINE how grim he's have been if it had been his kid!

[@whyknives]

I LOVE DISCOWING!! Can’t wait for the video on him (richard)

[@chrisbullard5901]

Dick Grayson fails in BTAS and the DCAU, while Terry McGinnis succeeds, because the point of Robin is to show Bruce there is a life outside of Batman. Batman Beyond and JLU pulls this off, because Terry shows Bruce his personal life beyond the mask isn’t just an alibi. Terry proposes to Dana, and through all his exploits as Batman that we see in-show, he’s still forging a path towards a normal life, with the goal being a family and friends. This is also where “Mask of the Phantasm”, “Mystery of the Batwoman”, and every BTAS moment where Bruce shows his empathy as a businessman and charitable donor both rewards and punishes us as an audience. The reward we wish for and never get in any superhero / action show like “Knight Rider” is for the protagonist to realize “One man can make a difference, but that doesn’t mean it demands just one man!”

[@BigJonB36]

I'd argue that he kept BTAS Bruce grounded. Batman, once he loses the sidekicks, becomes a bitter loner until Terry McGuinness shows up

[@SerumLake]

Now that’s an interesting point you raise, but I would argue that it was the cruelty of the Joker and Batman’s sense of powerlessness in that situation that drove him to becoming a loner.

[@sevendeadlysquids404]

As far as more stories being told, I think it also helps having another protagonist who knows who Batman is that can be present in more action heavy scenes. He almost fills a similar role to Alfred or Jim Gordon in that regard but it's easier to justify why Robin is there in certain scenes. I think it gave a series that had been going on for a decent bit (at the time) a bit of new energy and a few episodes may have felt clunkier without him... But yeah, he definitely wasn't a necessity. I also feel like sometimes Robin is there for padding. Perhaps the show's creators threw in a few fun action scenes with the villain's side kick fighting Robin to up the episode length... But this may be overly cynical of me and a bit harsh.

[@tommyfishhouse8050]

Robin is one of those characters that makes sense and can fit into the fantastic world of animation. But it's a lot harder to sell Robin in a live action movie. Especially the Batman movies like Nolan or Reeves that try to make their version of batman 'gritty' 'realistic' 'grounded' 'violent' 'grim' etc. You can't have Robin, at least a kid version of robin in that kind of a Batman story without making Bruce come off at best as criminally negligent.

[@dejaypage1575]

Okay but here is the thing with hindsight, Serum. You bring up how Bruce is a pretty compassionate guy, yes? In a sort of Fridge Brilliance kind of way, seeing Dick as a mostly well-adjusted college student shows that Bruce was able to *raise him right.* That kinda shows that Bruce as we know him in the show was influenced by his time with Dick early in his career. ESPECIALLY if he was taken in a couple of years after Andrea left. You could actually make an argument that while Dick isn’t super active in the show, his presence shows the influence he has had on Bruce. Heck Bruce became *more sour* after he and Dick had their falling out in New Batman Adventures, and Bruce slowly regained that kinder side again thanks to interactions he would have with Tim, Virgil (in his Static Appearances) and Wally West in the Justice League cartoons. Basically Bruce is pretty easy to fall into darkness if he didn’t have someone willing to help anchor him, and him kind of getting emotional attachments to Alfred, Dick, Tim, Barbara, Static and the League help keep Bruce from blinking at the abyss in the DCAU as a whole. And we see what happened when he did blink with the period between the prologue scene in Beyond and when he enlists Terry

[@Rengokuo4o6]

Sorry bro, Dick was not really necessary at all. Also most people use Dick's compassion to justify his existence or to say he's better than Bruce but the thing is Bruce is pretty compassionate as well. So yeah Dick was entirely unnecessary.

[@FranklinWilson-ev9dq]

Robin, Kept Batman,Grounded!!!!!!!!!! Kept Him, From Getting, DARKER!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@sporf_sporf]

"Sucks to be you Zucco." I lol'd.

[@pastpatour]

The fact that Robin didn't go all the way through with his revenge is one of those moments which reminds us of the divide between classical heroes and antiheroes. Very well written and credible.

[@ProfessorAragorn]

I dunno . . . I guess for what we got in the series . . . yeah he's kinda superfluous. Sure he saves Batman or gets him out of a tight jam in a handful of episodes - but he does exactly what Dick does in the comics in the episodes he's in - he gives us some levity with snappy one liners, he works as an audience foil asking how Batman solved that riddle/trap, or by being involved in college-based crimes. Robin's Reckoning is a great character moment and shows us why Robin isn't joined at Batman's hip like we would almost expect - they may work well together, but we can tell that Batman will occasionally push Dick away and Dick isn't liking that. I am the Night is another great story where, yes, Dick Grayson is kinda tacked on (much like Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne), but it shows us that Batman's partner cares for him and his mission. It shows us there is more character to Dick than just "audience foil, one-liner giver". He believes in Bruce's mission and he believes in Batman because what Batman did for him in the origin story displayed in Robin's reckoning. If we look at the series as just a window that shows a world I think it becomes more clear that Robin was necessary - whether he saved Batman countless other times in adventures we didn't see or whether it was just the fact that a young Bruce Wayne in his 20s seeing someone just like him suffer made him realize he can't just be a vigilante tackling mobsters. He has to be a father too and so raised Dick as his son (thus making it seem like Dick Grayson would carry on Bruce's mission like a son carrying on his father's legacy). Also - what gives on not going over Batgirl returns - the one episode without Batman, but instead has Robin chasing after Batgirl working with Catwoman? I think this is where we kinda get Robin's "this is how I do things on my own without Batman" and I think it offers a small moment of characterization.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

I struggle to think of anything to add to this one. I mean, Robin isn't technically necessary for Batman to work, but depending on what kind of story you're trying to tell, he can add something valuable to the story, but that's what you already said.

[@mrheroprimes]

I must say richard Grayson's origin story wise most realistic for the time it was printed but over the years it's actually become extremely unrealistic due to in the 1970s osho was formed, Which under osha regulations the Haley's flying circus would have gotten in serious trouble for not having a net in place because it's required by law, meaning Zuko would have to sabotage the net as well as the trapeze for it to be realistic

[@dougwalker8068]

I'm not gonna lie, I'd love to see you cover the characters of the 66 show and comics. I don't see many people breaking down those versions of the characters.

[@karlthomasson6776]

Considering the vagaries of 1990s channel/network programming, if you asked people who saw the original show when they were kids, many of them probably never even realised Robin was in it. Certainly if you asked me before catching up as an adult I wouldn't have recalled he was around that early.

[@solacehealer7589]

When my siblings were little they were so confused as to why all the villains looked different in (what we called) season 3, so they made the excuse that the original artist (we called him Colorblind Bob) retired and his replacement (Colorblind Steve) hadn’t watched the original. This has very little to do with the video. But you mentioned that the second bit is a separate show and it made me remember that time and laugh. The explanations small children come up with are hilarious.

[@MetaKnightErrant]

Fantastic video!

[@WhiteFangofWar]

Useful in numerous scenarios but not strictly necessary. The Watson role fits him well when dealing with a more technically-involved crime such as Riddler's schemes, and against larger foes like The League of Shadows who have armies of well-trained goons having a partner helps make such a fight manageable. It definitely felt like a deliberate subplot in Second Chance where Robin is feeling unwanted as Bruce is trying to get his 'true best friend' back, so he bites off more than he can chew trying to impress Bruce. He's certainly of better value in an episodic show over a film.

[@nicksmyth4050]

Would you ever consider doing a gag retrospective of the "Dark Claw the Animated Series" comic. A Marvel/DC join one-off issue that parodies their Batman/Wolverine amalgam character Dark Claw. It's basically a real comic about a fictional tie-in comic to a fictional "Dark Claw" cartoon created by Bruce Timo, Alan Burnett, & Paul Dini

[@Coconut_Prrson]

People forget that Robin is a reflection of Batman. They have the same backstory, but Batman was left traumatised because he was alone. Batman taking care of Robin is him saying "it's too late to save myself, but I can save him" . This reflects whenever Dick grows up and becomes Nightwing. He straight up becomes a mentally-healthy version of Batman, and indicatesb that Batman has made a good job at making sure history doesn't repeat itself. And ofc it also works the other way around, with Robin being much more sane and grounding Batman emotionally, eventually helping him heal and find a new family in him

[@taylorscrews2284]

What bugs me about the whole “tapping into the young kids demo” is that kids are already watching the cartoons. Kids are already reading the comics. Hell I was a kid reading comics and watching cartoons. Never once did I look at Batman and say “ooo this is too spooky.” Or better yet I’ve never been watching scooby doo thinking “I can’t get into this, I need a little kid character to relate to.”

[@docweidner]

Tim was probably my favorite Robin in the comics. In part, because unlike Dick and Jason he chose to be there and the Chuck Dixon Robin miniseries did a great job of having him on his own for a bit early on. As you said, I liked the elements of Tim they used in BTAS, his kit madr so much more sense. And I agree, he was not NEEDED in BTAS, thought I will say he never felt overused or even poorly used. Yes, Ras could have taken Alfred or Barbara or even Selina and gotten Batman to go after him, so he wasn't required. I did enjoy him, though.

[@damanireynolds45]

6:11 Robin the Wondercracker!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@CapLives]

I do agree with that in the DCAU Dick is kinda just there for most of his Robin appearances. But I'd also say that BTAS does a pretty underwhelming treatment of Dick compared to say, The Batman.

[@kaylaturnis9486]

There have been many people who had took on the mantal of Robin over the years and the new Robin is Batman's son who is best friends with Superman's son, Jon Kent! The first Robin was the leader of the Teen Titans which were Wonder Girl, Speedy, and Aqualad, and later The New Teen Titans that were formed after Raven gave him a vision of future and assembled to stop an alien invasion and later her demon father, Trigon!

[@subjectdelta7210]

12:42 that’s just depressing and shows they didn’t have a lot of faith in the live action

[@katt-the-pig]

Nevermind whether Batman needed Robin. In actuality, Robin needed BTAS. Robin's only mainstream appearance up to that point was from the 60s show. Without the help of BTAS, he may never have been taken seriously.

[@fletcherclausen4349]

I always saw the differences in personality between Batman and robin being more to do with the fact that robin knows who is responsible for his parents death which means he can insulate that part of him self solely to his interactions with the man responsible were as Batman has no idea who is responsible for his parents murder so holds every criminal in Gotham responsible.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

With the upcoming Caped Crusader show , and how it seems it will take many inspirations from Batman's golden age stories, I really hope it introduces Dick Grayson later on (maybe season 2 or 3) and show the birth of the dynamic duo. I don't mind BTAS take, but I feel he adopting Dick as his sidekick is a important moment for his character, when he grows from this brooding loner to a mentor/ father figure to this young boy who lost his parents like Bruce did.

[@theimperialcombine]

the title itself makes me think the idea as a whole is silly I think without Robin it would be a fair different timeline of batman then what we are used to, Think of how different the 1966 Adam west series would've been (If it would even happen) or how we'd miss out on some Great stories such as Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing or The Death of Jason Todd that would give us The Red hood, While some would argue about the idea of Batman being solo is better I believe Robin is not only necessary but also one of the most important things to happen to Batman, It not only gave Bruce the start of the Bat Family (before robin only person he really had was Alfred) but also help Bruce Gain a bit of Humanity within himself and make him Truly care for those close to him such as Barbara, Jason, Tim, Damian, Etc. even when the Bat Family has issues at times in the end they do try to work things out since Bruce Does still care for them. Dick Grayson Truly Brought out The light inside of Bruce when before He had Nothing but the Batman itself and would've been more aggressive against Criminals.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

Yeah but no one can give a defence of why the worlds greatest detective would willingly carry a child on dangerous missions except saying that their world is fictional. The issue is even in their fictional world, the dangers of having a child sidekick is present and the ethics of bringing a child into such a life is often questioned. We have both Tim drake in the animated series and Jason in the comics.

[@dracrorasco4907]

While Robin may not have been necessary in BTAS I love Loren Lester and Kevin Conroy’s chemistry they have a fun and loving dynamic

[@QueenStodge]

I'm really happy that he's there. So many times, Robin is overlooked, so it's nice to see him in the role

[@milosbatmanvideos]

I like both batman when he's alone and him with robin especially in the 60s show

[@coneheadzigity]

Despite you taling more about DC villains, I would love to hear you talk about Marvel's Living Laser, specifically the Armored Adventures version, mainly because the villains in that show were (atleast in a few peoples opinions) DCAU levels of good.

[@shaddowofthelost1750]

Of course he's redundant, but redundancy is safety, and batman loves making things safe.

[@G-Mastah-Fash]

I just noticed that all of the text in the old Batman comics was written by hand. Whoever did that has some pretty nice handwriting.

[@VoltitanDev]

Batman without Robin is like Tom without Jerry

[@gfilmer7150]

Looking back at it, I don't think Batman's sidekicks were done all that well in this show. Dick Grayson as Robin was cool when he was spotlighted in Episodes but during that whole period where it was mandated that he had to be in every Episode with Bruce showed him as incompetent. Then as Nightwing, he was portrayed as angry which makes sense given the context but still, it doesn't help with the meta context of other Dick Grayson portrayals which also show him as either angry or incompetent. As for the second Robin, he's basically Jason Todd running around with Tim Drake's name. I've heard multiple reasons for this over the years whether it was the writers being forced to use Tim because Jason died, Jason just being that unpopular going into the late 90s, or Paul Dini and the other writers not liking Jason. The first one makes no sense because they could've adapted Jason and not kill him off, backed up by the fact that they adapted A Death In The Family in the movie Return of The Joker. Second one sounds insane because he wasn't that unpopular. Third one has no real evidence behind it besides Tim Drake's portrayal in the Arkham Games. Tim Drake ever since the New 52 has been getting the short stick and is the neglected Robin, with younger fans not knowing much about the character and therefore calling him their least favorite, and whatever he appears in, he never has his detective skills shown. He also gets passed over in multiple adaptations like the DCAMU and Lego Batman Family Matters. Oh yeah, Batgirl is just kinda there in BTAS and TNBA. Not much characterization outside of being the college girl and having the friendly rivalry with the second Robin.

[@nahte123456]

Is Robin needed for Batman? I'd say yes, Batman alone just has limits. Having someone to bounce off of, another fighter, just so many more stories. And over time he's become just such a great character. However is Dick as Robin needed for BTAS? No probably not. I think there's a reason Batman Beyond dealt with Barbara, Tim, even Superman, technically even Alfred and Gordan...but never Dick. The way BTAS was structured, Dick just wasn't needed and when Batman DID need someone there were other people for the job. The one time they "needed" someone like Dick...Terry took his place(arguably even doing it better).

[@seansmith6255]

They are and iconic duo Like abbot and Castello Or peanut butter and jelly Or drinking and driving

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Course's Robins relevant! Let's remember, he Is a brightly colored target used to draw enemy fire!😂

[@jackofallclaws6672]

So, Nightwing is next. This’ll be interesting.

[@TransPandaArt]

🪽 Robin is a bit like one of your good friends. TECHNICALLY you don't really need them in your life, but they're a welcome presence whenever they do show their face.

[@Patryk-eddsworld]

Batman needs robin to unload mental baggage onto

[@mhollis1989]

He also takes crowbars like a champ.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@mhollis1989Wrong Robin.

[@mhollis1989]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Wrong Attitude. 😈🤡

[@Chadius]

As a kid I always wondered how strong Candace was if she's able to fight Robin.

[@zemox2534]

I never had an issue with Robin in Batman the Animated Series. I thought it brought some much needed humour for some of the serious cases, and his banter with Batman was always fun Also, I have noticed that most DC animated shows seem to adapt Tim Drake's Robin costume more than him. He is the best Robin, but for some reason, writers (and even some fans) just do not seem to like him.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Same. Again, the more practical costume in contrast to the pantsless one. Also, the fact that it can be hard to nail the nerdy and techie aspects of Tim.

[@zemox2534]

​@michaelandreipalon359 It can not be that hard to write Tim Drake.

[@Kattlarv]

Robin is also a perfect example in most cases of the difference between "featuring" and "starring". That... SO many for some reason have an issue grasping.

[@MatthewK122]

Strange that flashback Dick got blue eyes and then adult he has black eyes

[@Joe_Kerr_9797]

Same with Bruce, had black eyes in BTAS, Justice League, JLU and has blue eyes in TNBA and Batman Beyond.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I prefer both of them being black eyed.

[@andydrew3834]

I know the ending music is a royalty free track but specifically which one? Can someone here help find it for me? I’d appreciate it

[@SerumLake]

I think it’s called Aplitude or possibly Altitude.

[@andydrew3834]

@@SerumLake thanks

[@jacklansdale77]

Haven't watched yet, thats what the poll is for but... Yeah totally, he was introduced as a sidekick for batman to bounce off of but Batman having someone to look out for and after really helps him both mature and remain kind. More often it's the lack or loss of a Robin that results in an edgy Batman.

[@CannonKnight]

I forget which DCAU movie this was from, but Wonder Woman confronted Batman about bringing on a child to fight crime with him, saying that he did it so Robin would be just like him. Batman calmly replied, "no, so he wouldn't".

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I think that's from Young Justice.

[@Kaden10]

"Why do we fall sir? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth (The GOAT)

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

It's funny how there's so many different robins because of *seriousness* reasons, so they retrofitted a family dynamic

[@fcomolineiro7596]

I think he is, mostly because it can be seen as batman healing a little bit, i mean it is his son now

[@thegreatacolyt1277]

Yes absolutely no question about it

[@ryanmoore6259]

I see him as an anchor for Bruce; at his best he helps Bruce control his emotions and remember compassion. Jason's death as Bruce's greatest failure works well

[@ajerjavec4723]

When it comes to Robin origin stories. I prefer the one from the Batman cartoon titled matter of family, because it makes Robbins anger at Tony more personal by dick dad the circus manager who said no the protection and got one of Tony brothers arrest, and we see more of Greysons before their death I think it the first act mark plus Batman catching as a second chance, the man who killed his parents was never caught that kind of guilt on robin

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Bonus with Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill being guest VAs there.