Nike Alphafly 3 vs Nike Vaporfly 3

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

I'm only here for the Performance Matrix. Can't express enough the brilliance and usefulness of this tool. It's what differentiates the quality of your reviews from that of your peers.

[@SagasuRunning]

It's coming as a subscriber perk. I just haven't had time to work it out fully. I'll get it worked out when I'm back from the US for October.

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

@@SagasuRunning That's great to hear. Thanks, Chris.

[@brane4859]

Agreed.

[@athoughtfulape]

I have about 25 miles in both shoes and would choose the Vaporfly 3 simply because the Alphafly 3 requires me to “be on” for the entirety of the run. There’s nothing quite like hitting your stride onto the Zoom Air pods, but if my form gets sloppy, I regret wearing the Alphafly 3.

[@SagasuRunning]

Interesting. That was also one (or many reason) I didn’t like racing in the AF1. I find the AF3 has a bigger sweet spot though. When my firm breaks down the AF3 works better for me than the VF3, which still rewards a clean foot strike and good mechanics. It’s also so interesting to me how shoe experiences differ so much person to person.

[@stephenrobinson4449]

Thanks Chris. Enjoyed the detailed discussion on the differences and how the two configurations work.

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching! 🤙🏻

[@Skjoldborg8]

Amazing depth on the content as always! Always learns something new. I have to give the VF3 a try when you hype it so much. Thanks for content once again 🙏👟

[@SagasuRunning]

The Vaporfly is a special shoe…. But the VF3 is my favorite one by far…

[@ClubmanGT1971]

Another brilliant video. Fascinating! 👌

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching! 🤙🏻

[@ABucc]

Great review. I have both shoes. I ran in the Alphafly 3 for the first time the other day, and I definitely see what you are saying. The Alphafly 3 is more of a bouncy ride, although bouncy as it may be, I don't think I would do good with them for a full marathon (IMHO). That being said, I love the way the Vaporfly 3 propels me forward when I pick up the pace. At first, the Vaporfly 3 was causing some calf pain when I was breaking them in, but now that I got some good miles in them, they are really feeling nice on longer up tempo paces.

[@SagasuRunning]

Honestly, for the marathon, or any road racing…. You can’t go wrong with either the AF3 or VF3.

[@gaphood4211]

Thank you for going so in depth much appreciated

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻

[@TimGrose]

Interesting (well to me!) that in a US 9 the weights are "almost" the same - 12g at closest. Can you even tell that? A Stryd is, for instance, 9g and I could not notice that when I used to wear one. In my UK 13/US 14 then my lightest VF3 shoe (left one) is 254g and both the AF3 are 291g so that's 37g which is very noticeable. Right VF3 is 258g. Maybe as I have still got quite a few usable VF1 and VF2 I never got more than one pair of the VF3. Still a bit on the fence about it. I've run well in it and equally very badly. Largely says more about me than the shoe. That said I did struggle with the relative "bulk" of the AF3 even despite being a little lighter than previous versions for me.

[@SagasuRunning]

On foot, I don't notice the weight. The VF3 feels more nimble, but i think that is more the size of it and the plate configuration. I'm also fascinated by this scaling issue. Your shoe size is on the extreme end of it all, but the weights differ so much. I now can understand the "bulk" of the AF3 in your size....wow.

[@stevenvreugdenhil3768]

Running Berlin next week, marathon stress to use the VF3 or AF3. Big guy, 6’2/ +/- 200lbs. Marathon time 3:27. What shoe would you recommend? 🙏🏼

[@SagasuRunning]

Whichever one is more comfortable. Seriously, last thing you need to worry about is comfort on race day. Both shoes will perform well on the course.

[@stevenvreugdenhil3768]

@@SagasuRunning thanks, VF it is🤘🏼

[@robin29991]

Wow, very in depth Review. I always found that I run just as well in the Alphafly but I just don't feel as fast. It's soft and pretty bulky(even still in v3) so it's always been more of a Trainer to me. Also have to say, I'm not a huge fan on the VF3. The 1(especially) and the 2 are still my favorites. V3 is still nice and light but it feels a bit more gentle and less aggressive now...

[@SagasuRunning]

The VF3 is definitely less aggressive…. But it’s still my favorite VF of all 4 generations. The AF3 definitely feels bigger than the VF3, but not bulky to me. Not like the AF2 felt.

[@alb.1911]

Do you think the "feel" of the Vaporfly can be compared to a low racing flat when compressed? (Streakfly?) I am asking because I see the plate basically almost on the asphalt and I imagine there is low difference in feeling the hard plate or hard asphalt. Thanks.

[@SagasuRunning]

The VF3 definitely feels like a minimal racing flat sometimes, especially compared to other super shoes. Not quite as minimal as the Streakfly was… but minimal nonetheless. Nike’s flyplate has more flex in to compared to other super shoes on the market. So it’s not rough like you think. It’s more stable and propulsive. It’s a feeling unlike any other super shoe. Even other with the same low plate configuration.

[@alb.1911]

@@SagasuRunning thank you, I think I will give a try. Have a nice day.

[@ucatani]

I do, specially in 20-minutish 5K paces. And i just love the feeling!

[@arjunchills4281]

I have a half marathon coming up in a month. My personal best is 2 hours and 3 minutes on the Saucony Endorphin Pro 4. I'm debating whether to stick with the Pro 4 or try the Nike Alphafly 3. What do you recommend?

[@SagasuRunning]

If the EP4 is comfortable and still has life in it I’d say stick with that. The AF3 will do well but you’ll want to do a few runs ahead of time in it.

[@arjunchills4281]

@@SagasuRunning thank you

[@Minionthesecond]

Great and detailed review! Thank you. It seems more and more elite runners changed from Vaporfly to Alphafly. Do you think the Alphafly is more suitable for those "elite" or super fast runner compared with Vaporfly? I ran on Vaporfly next % since 2019 in almost all races from 5K to Marathon. I am a sub-330 marathon runner. Just thinking should I "upgrade" to the Alphafly.

[@SagasuRunning]

Not really. I think many Nike elites don’t like the VF3 and either could no longer get VF2s or finally have in a tried the AF3 and liked it. There was a big resistance at the elite level to adopt the Alphafly, besides Kipchoge’s training group and some Nike athletes involved in the development of the Alphafly (Rupp, Osako)…. But the AF3 works. It will be interesting to see how many stick to the AF3 next year vs move to the VF4. I can only imagine we will see Nike moving the Vaporfly back towards the VF2 in feel so their elites choose it again and the fact they have a good shoe in the AF3 that dna suit elites and non-elites. I expect the VF4 to be more tailored to elite preferences.

[@Mr_OP2000]

Hi Chris I need your help! I aim to run a half marathon in 1:35:00 and a marathon in under 4 hours, along with a 10K and 15K races. I'm a 5' 7 light runner with a heel to midfoot style and likely have a high cadence. I usually run with the Mach 6, Speed 3, and Superblast. and the Mach 6 is my least favorite I'm looking to buy race day shoes and can get the AF3, Sky Paris, or one of Saucony shoes at a decent discount. They all feel comfortable when I try them on. How should I choose?

[@sambarker5294]

Good luck! 👍

[@SagasuRunning]

The AF3 will have the best performance. But as a lighter runner you might not be able to. Get the most out of it. It likely is the best bet overall. The Metaspeeds are excellent but can be a bit rough on the legs and unstable overall…. But others a great option for a half. It the AF3 or a Metaspeed is an option I would t bother with the Endorphin Pro or elite. Good luck with your race. 💪🏻

[@DTOWNRW16]

would you say for the performance matrix the vaporfly and edge paris are similar and the alphafly and sky paris are similar?

[@SagasuRunning]

The MSEP/MSSP are similar to the VF3, they both have a higher top end than the AF3 and prefer to be pushed. The AF3 is really optimized around threshold running and steady state needs of the marathon specifically.

[@iz5442]

hi sagasu, what shoe will u recommend with an easy run > tempo shoe capability? 😌 i find the type of shoes u like is alot like mine. The SL2 looks like a great choice, but what will u pick? VF3 is also my fav shoe of all time.

[@SagasuRunning]

SL2 is hard to beat for ticking both of those boxes. I actually prefer the Peg41/Plus combo. The Peg41 is my go to easy/daily that I CAN to workouts in (nuts it’s not ideal for workouts)…. While the Peg Plus is my go to workout shoe that I CAN do easy in (but it’s not my first choice). Peg41/Peg Plus/VF3 is a HARD rotation to best for me… you can do it all in those three shoes. Literally… The SL2 has the range to do both, over the Velocity Nitro 3 for me… I suspect SL2/Adios 9/Adios Pro 4 will be a great and versatile combo too though…. I can’t wait to get into testing that. But right now I’m back full Nike.

[@iz5442]

@@SagasuRunning Thank you, i’m not an elite runner and i dont really think i need 3 shoes for my rotation. Since u speak good of the P+, i’ll try it on soon. Any particular reason you dont mix adidas and nike together for the rotation or is it just personal preference?

[@SagasuRunning]

I actually try not to mix brands. As a designer I like to feel how product lines are meant to work together. I spent alot of the earlier part of the year mixing things and have come back to sticking to brands product families. Specifically to the SL2…. I find the ride and geometry to be very anti VF3. They don’t work together, at all, IMO. The SL2/Adios Pro is a perfect match. Just like the Peg/VF3. I get into why, at least for Nike, in my next video. I’m a minimalist…. And a 2 shoe rotation is the dream but I always find a 3rd is needed at some point. To have options for those of runs but also different stimulus for the feet.

[@iz5442]

@@SagasuRunning Thank you so much for the replies, i appreciate it alot. Your thoughts align with me very well. Always look forward to your reviews. I’ll try the P+/VF3 combo for now. I have the IR3 but i just cant seem to fit it in my rotation i truly hate that shoe maybe due to my small frame, i’d rather just tank all my runs in the VF3. I’m pretty sure when i’m faster and clock higher mileage weekly, i’ll find the need for a 3 shoe rotation.

[@SagasuRunning]

With a small frame the P+/VF3 combo should work well. I love the P+ but just don’t love it as a dedicated easy shoe. Intervals and workouts… it’s nearly perfect. Especially when I don’t want to wear a plated shoe or spikes.

[@citystargaming143]

What should i use for 5k/10 run ???? which is better

[@SagasuRunning]

Both will do well. However, I think I'd still pick the VF3 for that type of running.

[@JustinOsmerIV]

I am training for sub 3:30 marathon and trying to find the right as shoe. I am trying the Vaporfly but I’ve noticed by 15 miles my ankles are hurting. With the extra cushion/pods in AF3, do you think it would do better for me or am I too slow to justify that shoe?

[@SagasuRunning]

It’s likely not about cushion, more stability. The AF3 is a more stable shoe over the VF3 which likely will help your ankles.

[@MidLifeRunner]

Took me awhile to get to this one fully. I missed the vaporfly 3 sales on the white and blue colorway so I’ve been waiting for another sale. Might be a metaspeed + situation where it just never ends up happening. Forgot to mention , solid comparison. Makes me want to run in the vaporfly 3

[@SagasuRunning]

If you have never run in the VF3...I'd recommend to get a pair. They are a super shoe that you'll always compare everything else against. A gold standard if you will. Even if you prefer others, you need to have the VF3 baseline. I'd also be curious about your video on them...especially given your overall shoe preferences.

[@MidLifeRunner]

@@SagasuRunning I love the v2. No other company has balanced the softness, bounce and toe-off propulsion in the v2 and the AF1. Nike has always been on another level with their super shoes. Now, other shoe companies are finally catching up after a few years.

[@SagasuRunning]

@MidLifeRunner Then if you know the VF2…and I know you like the AF3…the VF3 would be interesting for you still. It’s somewhere in between them. Adidas is definitely on par with Nike as far as super shoes, Asics pokes into there once in a while…the rest, well….

[@TolunayOrkun]

Would you prefer Alphafly 3 or Vaporfly 3 for a hilly marathon? I think they might do about the same on the climbs but not sure of downhills...

[@SagasuRunning]

Actually, it would come down to how much downhill there was. Assumption is even up and down, then the VF3 has the edge....but if it's an odd course with some big climbs then longer gradual downhills...the AF3 will have the edge (and help save your legs on those long downhills).

[@TolunayOrkun]

@@SagasuRunning I will be running CIM (California International Marathon) on December 8th which will be my first CIM. It is net downhill course which most of ups and downs are in the first half (rolling hills). Basically, I am trying to save my quads for the second half. I don't have Alphafly 3 at the moment but if my training gets me into potential PR shape, I might invest in a pair if it would give me an advantage over what I have. On the other hand, if I am not in likely PR fitness by the race, I don't want to spend more for another race shoe. Here are the options: Alphafly 1 (100 miles), Vaporfly 2 (50 miles), Vaporfly 3 (new), Adios Pro 3 (60 miles), Endorphin Pro 3 (90 miles and 2nd pair new) and Wave Rebellion Pro 2 (new). Actually, if I am not in PR shape I might consider putting more miles to one of the shoes that already has miles. Maybe AP3 is the best option in that case. So far I only used it for some long runs. Others with miles have a race in them. FYI, my Marathon PR is in Alphafly 1 and HM PR is in Vaporfly 2. Both in Houston, pancake flat. I ran my last (mostly flat) marathon in Prime X Strung OG which was great for 23 miles but weight and shoe instability got me in the last 5k (form breaking down as I got dehydrated and fatigued). So Prime X is not in consideration for CIM.

[@SagasuRunning]

For CIM… 100% AF3… that net downhill will suit them well. CIM may be the best AF3 course there is…. Straight and downhill. Lock in and go. Also they are not as heavy as the PX2S so they won’t feel like a boot on your feet.

[@TolunayOrkun]

@@SagasuRunning Thanks!

[@SantaCruzRunner]

I searched your video collection and couldn't find anything about how you increased your stride length. I noticed your cadence during those almost 5k reps and you've still just under 190. I'm closer to 200 on those efforts and I'd love to know how you were able to work on lengthening your stride, I know that you've noted in previous videos that it was a concerted effort that you made. Thanks for the breakdown!

[@SagasuRunning]

It was mostly doing drills like....high knees walks and strides, A skips, hill running (& trail running for strength), box jumps, focus on fast feet especially with 200s and 400s and general foot strike and mechanics mindfulness (up on my toes). Recently I've added more strides (8+) after some workouts and plyometrics after others. More strength building. Also being mindful of letting my stride float when I'm out on a rep. Sometimes I can feel my stride get out of control (210+) and then I'll relax and focus on "float". This especially helps in the AF3 there the AirPods really do their job. (a bit) more about it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6XSf5Vje8uHmNU That has made the difference really.

[@SantaCruzRunner]

@@SagasuRunning Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I'll implement more of those suggestions into my current block.

[@ucatani]

The Vaporfly 2 fits me just perfectly, but I bought the AP3 and felt it runs a bit longer. Was it a just impression? Do you feel they fit the same?I can’t pick the wrong size, this was 400 usd in Brazil. Do you wear them both in 9? Thanks!

[@SagasuRunning]

It has been a while since I had a VF2 on my foot, but I definitely remember it being longer. The AF3 is a more square toebox and slightly shorter, even compared to the VF3. Yes, I wear the same size, US 9, in all three. The AF3 fits the best as far as length.

[@ucatani]

@@SagasuRunning Thanks again. I've been going through a lot or problems with fit lately, which is so ironic. Been running in Nikes US10 since 2012 (half-marathons, 10Ks), never had a problem. No shin splits, no blisters, no nothing. I'm going to turn 42 next year and decide to try my first marathon. Figured I should get the best rotation as possible. I got the Adidas SL2, the Superblast 2, and now the Alphafly 3. But guess what? The same size in Brazil (42/28cm) for the SL2 and the Asics SB2 are actually UKs 9.5 and the Superblast is a us 10.5. This means that They have too much room in front of my toe and they give me terrible blisters, I mean TERRIBLE ones, eating through two layers of skin even with the Band-aids, silicone pads and the most expensive socks. In short, I'm now selling the SB2 (which cost me 280 USD) and the SL2 (145 USD), and if I test this pair of AP3, I may soon have to be selling the 400 bucks mammoth too at a loss.

[@SagasuRunning]

@ucatani wait… are you asking about the Alphafly 3 sizing or the Adios Pro 3 sizing?

[@markoljustina]

Not sure that they fit same; I wear VFs 47 and AP3 and Boston 46 2/3

[@SagasuRunning]

I wear all of them in US Men’s 9 (27.0)…the only shoe I had to size up in was the Takumi Sen 10 to a US 9.5.

[@stevros48]

Hi Chris ... Hey have you received amy communication from Chris from the Fordy Runs channel in the UK ? Hes been looking at fellow shoe tubers to do some podcasts and discussions with.

[@SagasuRunning]

Nope… nothing from Fordy Runs, ever. But

[@RobertNaik]

Perfect timing and this was a really informative video. A pair of alpha fly have just been delivered to me today. I really love the Vapor flys but after analysing a few runs comparing them with metaspeed sky Paris I’m going to have to start using the Paris. Probably for a 1/2 marathon. I got the alpha’s for the marathon. But it’s so hard to decide as I’ve not done a marathon before.

[@SagasuRunning]

I have a MSEP vs VF3 video too...though I eventually found the MSEP is a fast shoe, probably "faster" than the VF3 but you need the fitness and strength to get the most out of it. They are close though. The issue for me is FFTurbo+ foam is rough on my legs. I need a day or so to recover. ZoomX leg savings and recovery aspects are unbeatable. I'll take that any day...

[@zr7gaming256]

Still waiting on the adios nine heard rumors about September 27th

[@SagasuRunning]

It's true, but VERY limited...likely only in Berlin too.

[@83CODY83]

I have the AF3 and the VF3. I think the AF3 has more potential…. But The VF3 is smooth as butter… will take the AF3 for some long runs to see if they are good for marathon for me. I actually believe the AF3 might be faster than VF3 over shorter distances, I just need to figure out how to extend it so my legs don’t fatigue from the bounce.

[@SagasuRunning]

How to extend it? Keep on running in them. Train those legs for the bounce...🤙🏻 Totally agree on how smooth the VF3 is.

[@83CODY83]

@@SagasuRunning fair enough.

[@zixednatz]

At 648kms, my vaporfly3 has no outsole durability issues, but the midsole is bottoming out, and the carbon fiber plate lost its stiffness there's no proplulsion and I thought i broke the plate but i was wrong, it's just lost its pop.

[@SagasuRunning]

I mean…. That is an absolutely insane amount of kms on a VF… good to know the outsole can withstand that. I also have exceptional durability from my pairs of VF3s. But nothing near what you are doing in them.

[@zixednatz]

@@SagasuRunning the VFN1 lasted 1,500kms while VFN2 lasted 1,000kms for me. The heels were more damaged, but I remember they had more pop than VFN3. Does the VFN3 have thinner carbon plate? Certainly lost propulsion for me today.

[@zixednatz]

@@SagasuRunning going back to the topic, thanks for this review, i love it. I also didn't like AF1 because it was too heavy and i didn't know how to deal with the bounce, i felt like they tire my legs. I never bothered to try AF2 i felt VF2 was way superior. Now im disappointed with the longevity of VF3 though it did help me with racing for the whole year, but AF3 really feels like the perfect racing shoes for me. Hardly noticeable weight difference with VF3 for me, and way more propulsive!

[@SagasuRunning]

Same plate…. Revised version of ZoomX which is slightly less dense. That makes the difference. 1000k! Wow… I cannot imagine running in any shoe they long. Especially with super foams.

[@SagasuRunning]

The weight difference between the AF3 and VF3, in sizes around US Men’s 9, is unnoticeable on foot. It’s minor. I’ve been very happy with the longevity of the VF3… but my expectations are WAY lower than yours. I’m happy with around 250kms of racing and maybe another 200-250kms of training…. And that’s a lot in my opinion.

[@Chungdol]

Tl.dr.: Try both configurations if you can This video is simply amazingly well done! I always thought I'm a "high plate runner"... I bought and got almost entirely only high plated shoes. My first low plate shoe was the Endorphin Pro 4 - which I found very boring to say the least, so I kept my mind about "I need/want high plated shoes" Then the first exception came, the Xtep 160x 3.0 (not the pro) a very very unbothersome shoe that simply works for everything, but I explained it myself the plate there is mainly for stability reasons. The realitvely good working Endorphin Elite confirmed my thinking again - I want high plated shoes - I failed to understand that the Elite is a special case, while its a high plated shoe it doesnt run like that because of the very firm foam and unique rocker. The Li-Ning Feidian Ultra 3 (this is also a very unbothersome shoe, especially compared to the barking and screaming but stable Ultra 4) and 4 were simply shoes I wished and wanted to work for me and I explained it to myself: well, I'm just too bad and not fit enough to run in these beautys. I ignored the fact that the Li-Ning Feidian Elite 3 and 4, but especially the 3 worked really really good for me, both low plated shoes with a very early rocker. Actually the Feidian Elite 3 feels the closest to the VF3 from all the shoes I know, just firmer and more aggressive but much less resilience (which is actually backed up by spiro datas where the Elite 3 performed better than the VF2 up to HM distance and after HM distance the VF2 was better) Then I got a pair of Vaporfly 3 and I realized... I want/need low plated shoes. It was a running experience I never had before, it was not chaotic, not super special, not "unique" at all... it simply worked and felt great... first run a 25km run and out of the box it felt amazing and my legs 1 day later felt really good. I ordered 2 weeks later another pair of VF3 from my own money, since I very often get shoes for free - actually almost all shoes, that says everything. And datas doesnt lie... at my current fitness level I get 170 cadence in average with low plate configurations compared to my 160-164 cadence in regular shoes or high plated shoes. Does it may change one day if my fitness is increasing a lot? Maybe... but currently low plated configuration it is. Moral of the story: You HAVE to try it. The Metaspeed sky and edge are the best examples... the sky is sold out almost all the time while the edge is sometimes even in a sale. Doesnt matter where I read everyone seem to want "bouncy stride lenght increase bounce bounce bounce". Iam sure I'm not an exception that responds currently to low plated shoes better than to high plated ones... while was thinking for over a year I need high plate configurations.

[@SagasuRunning]

Agree here...try both, own both...especially if you are a fan of Nike and ZoomX, they provide very different rides. The VF3 is the classic super shoe, the best execution of the low plate configuration to date (it still works better than the others). While the AF3 is very exciting and fun to run in and has all the performance you could want. With the VF...I've seen the shoe get better and better...as my fitness increases. This has been true of all 4 generations.

[@Chungdol]

@@SagasuRunning we talked so much about plated shoes these days... Would you still advice the streakfly these days? Especially as entry for trackwork or to train footstrenght. Using the Peg plus as daily trainer and the streakfly for Tempo work... Just came Into my mind.

[@SagasuRunning]

@Chungdol Id advise the Peg Plus instead. For both. It’s a better trainer, more durable and versatile, that gives most of what the Streakfly did. It’s the shoe that I’ve been doing all workouts, except those I do in spikes, as of late. Unless you can get a deal on the Streakfly, there is no reason to buy one right now. Unless of course you want to have one to keep.

[@Chungdol]

@@SagasuRunning thanks for your honest answer, since the Peg plus is also already in sale I would probably go for a second pair of these, shoes an absoluter unit so far 🙌🏻