Nikon Z9 Firmware 3.10 - Does it solve our Birds in Flight struggles?

[@dance2jam]

Thanks for the video and confirming much of what I've experienced in the field. 1. The AF on the Nikon Z9 with firmware 3.1 is improved. 2. Either wide area modes or custom areas seem to be the most reliable for locking on for BIF. 3. These situations still prove challenging for "AI" subject detection, perhaps more for Nikon than Canon a. Small object to frame ratio, b. Distant subject, c. Low light, d. Low contrast, e. cluttered backgrounds. Personally, I find the WA/Custom to be the best at initial acquisition in most cases (especially BIF). In the situations that are like I described (not birds flying in the sky), then I often times will reach for dynamic small or single point (or even a 1x1 custom area square with subject detection). I love the Z9, but I would still like Nikon to streamline the subject detection AF like Canon, because at the end of the day, it's still more work to juggle AF modes. The 3D mode works best for me when the subject fills much of the frame and moves somewhat predictably or in small amounts (i.e. warbler on a branch). BTW: I shoot with friends that shoot with Sony a1 and Canon R3. My impression was the Canon's AF was a lot stickier.

[@WILDALASKA]

good info

[@duncangroenewald]

At 9:17 that incoming eagle is out of focus until it lands and stops moving.

[@WILDALASKA]

The mode was in auto area af and it switched birds 3 times. I had wrong mode on for the that situation

[@duncangroenewald]

@@WILDALASKA That's the problem with the Z9 you need to switch modes for each situation. Not very practical when situations are changing rapidly as they do with wildlife and especially so with BIF

[@WILDALASKA]

@@duncangroenewald Ive found if I leave it in wide l (custom actually) it behaves in 95% of the situations. my stupid with that flyin when testing

[@duncangroenewald]

@@WILDALASKA Yes definitely better in Wide or the widest custom setting. But then you have to keep the subject in that area or get them in that area and in fast moving situations that might mean missing the shot.

[@jfphotography69]

For BIF I use C1 and adjust the size of the box according to the subject and it's flight pattern, I also use C1 when photographing birds on a body of water , and I usually narrow the box to it's smallest setting, which works great, then just keep it above the water and on the subject.

[@WILDALASKA]

Thanks for sharing!

[@spencerburrows5360]

For cluttered backgrounds where foliage might be the “nearest” subject and grab the focus I use trusty old dynamic at least if I’m struggling for acquisition and can then stick with it or hand off to a tracking mode if I want

[@PhilThach]

Those eagles are amazing! This video could be called "why did Phil invest in Canon mirrorless cameras after years of being a Nikon shooter". It is good to see Nikon improving. Maybe they will make a really good APSC Z camera (Z90?) in a year or two so I can buy it and use my 200-500 with it.

[@WILDALASKA]

I do understand both Canon and Nikon shooters more now. And this update was a big jump for Nikon. Im curious on the aps-c for Nikon future also.

[@felm.974]

Do we even need APSC these days when you can just select a crop version in camera?

[@mlai2546]

@@felm.974 Yes. Most people can't afford $2000+ camera. APSC gets them into photography first.

[@WILDALASKA]

@@felm.974 yes we do. full frame to crop is like 19mp or so. with r7 your at 32mp cropped. The r7 would be like 80somehting mp at full frame.

[@felm.974]

@@WILDALASKA I see, it makes sense then, but can't they just release lower MPs cameras? That would solve both the cost that the gentleman at the top mentions plus the high MP issue that you mention?..

[@peterding4958]

How you tried the 4.0 firmware? Keen to know the improvement...

[@WILDALASKA]

Testing now

[@johnhudson666]

Great Video - Question - Is the autofocus on the Z9 better using Nikon Z lenses as opposed to Canon glass using the fringer adapter or Nikon F lenses using the RTZ.The Nikon F 200-500 is not one of the fastest at acquiring focus? Have you tried one the 600 or 800 Z lenses?

[@johnhudson666]

Meant FTZ

[@WILDALASKA]

Ive used all the z lenses short of the 800 6.3, 400 and 600 tc. The fringer adapted lens works just as well as the z and f mounted nikon lenses. I have a video on the channel on the fringer adapted lenses and have had some nikon shooters look at it as well. the 200-500 on the z9 is much faster than using all the other bodies in the past also. Its a matter of algorithm and power spinning the focus motors. Same with the Canon R3 vs r5,r6,r7 etc with the big whites.

[@Photographersforyou]

@@WILDALASKA so would you say the 200-500 is fast enough for af speed on the z9 as It seemed a bit slower than my 80-400 G on my D850 - appreciate any of your thoughts.

[@reneefariasphoto40]

I find that when I lock something fast moving within the L Area Wide AF, it stays locked even when the subject moves out out of the box. I find acquiring lock with the BB is better as it stays locked even when I remove my finger from the BB. Just my 2 cents and experience.

[@WILDALASKA]

Same experience here. New update has really made the AF work well.

[@frankb3229]

Great video, many thanks. What frame rate did you use for the slo motion videos of the eagles ? I assume 60 fps ?!

[@WILDALASKA]

1080p 120fps

[@AlistairOwensgooglePlus]

Amazing Eagle shots. Is this all with the EF lens, converter and Fringer adapter?

[@WILDALASKA]

thanks and yes as well as with the 1.4x tc

[@kuau714]

great video. I would be curious to hear how the Z9 compare to your R5 in terms of raw AF performance with BIF. I see you compared it to the R3, R6, R7 which are all lower MPIX cameras which in theory should be a little less stressful on the AF then the 45mp Z9... Just curious.

[@WILDALASKA]

oh the R5 is right there with the other canon cameras as far as autofocus. Z9 is getting closer.

[@davidsherman3462]

great eagle shots!

[@WILDALASKA]

Thanks

[@heymikeriley]

That’s good to hear! I got a z9 recently after the firmware came out and thus far I’ve found the autofocus to be superb. Like you, I shot an r5 for quite a while and while most of my friends shoot canon and talk about the autofocus being the best in the game, I definitely think the z9 is up there. The only benefit I feel canon has over Nikon currently for AF is that Nikon stills seems more finicky maybe? With my canon I pretty much always had it on one mode. The Nikon I find myself switching modes, but as my muscle memory and camera iq has grown, that hasn’t been an issue. Glad that I didn’t get the camera until the growing pains were done!

[@WILDALASKA]

Ya the switching modes is what nags me on the Z9. But I still love the camera

[@animestarlord9021]

I got to try my Z9 on wildlife over the last few weeks. 3.10 is still buggy in lower light wildlife shots. Bright light it would lock 70% of the time.

[@WILDALASKA]

adjust your ISO :P I haven't had much issue in low light myself with the new firmware and using the Wide L Box myself.

[@WernerBirdNature]

Hi Scott, really awesome eagle footage, certainly the slow motion parts !! 👍 I'm glad to see this fw makes you much happier with your Z9 ! You compared the AF with the more recent Canon's .. how do you compare it to your old love the R5 (which just received a much tinier fw update than we had been hoping for ??)

[@WILDALASKA]

The R5 AF is pretty close to the R3 and newer canons. Its still above the Z9's AF.

[@livejames9374]

After the recent updates I use 3D for most everything now. In rare instances where I can’t get lock due to size/speed of subject I use the C1 (custom) box then hand off to 3D. Canon just makes it easier where that functionality is combined in one mode.

[@WILDALASKA]

good info

[@hstein27]

Amazing eagle shots! I do find that against busy tree backgrounds, the R7 does struggle with raptors, but that's usually if they are quite small in frame. I was tracking ravens and peregrine falcons against the sky and a granite rock face yesterday, and since they were fairly large in frame, the R7 was pretty solid!

[@WILDALASKA]

May need to set the tracking mode to 2 or 4 for busier backgrounds even though ive found auto work pretty well. But again all af struggle on small in frame and bust background close to the birds

[@mseesea]

Is Nikon improving? Yes (painfully slow). Did it catch up to Canon? No. Great video and honest feedback. Thanks 🙏

[@WILDALASKA]

👍

[@garfieldirwin]

TFP. Nice to hear you think video AF has improved -- nobody else has talked about that.

[@WILDALASKA]

It is a big jump imho.

[@jserenity]

Before, my old 50mm f1.4 would breath crazy on video. But 3.10 now focus with very little breathing to no breathing at all. Still noisy though not like the z lens

[@WILDALASKA]

That's very cool. Nice to see when things get better with firmware patches

[@harryburnett7086]

What happened to Nikon my love ❤️ since 1980s , nikon used to be great bird tracking in older dslrs and autofocus seemed more stable and the yellow box is hard to see for me

[@WILDALASKA]

this camera is very good and you can change the color

[@disco4178]

Run what shutter? 😛

[@WILDALASKA]

?

[@nealPhotography]

Wonderful set of images of the eagle conflict! Fun to see! I agree that the 3.10 upgrade has helped, but I still miss shots that I think it should've caught. Ah, well, for those of us who are pot committed, we're happy with the huge progress that Nikon has made, even if it isn't quite up to Canon yet. And, I, as a Nikon user, am happy for the Canon shooters that they do have the level of AF that they have! We all are benefiting from the progress in camera technology!

[@WILDALASKA]

Yes its a great time to be a photographer. the tools at our fingertips are amazing.

[@Photographersforyou]

Great video, however I feel that your using the wrong settings on the z9, for example once you have locked on in wide-l, with af persistence ON you just switch to 3D tracking by pressing the fn button and you dont need to keep the box over the bird. It literally takes less than a fraction of a second to do that and you can switch back to wide-l or whatever af setting you have set just be releasing the FN button. For example when you had auto area set at the start of the video you could have just switched to wide-l or wide-s or dynamic or 3D tracking by just switching over to your setup fn buttons. I dont really miss a shot as I have all my fn buttons/display/ rec buttons setup to be able to grab any kind of af that I want and instantly. Give it a go and see. Good luck and keep the videos coming.

[@WILDALASKA]

I think you're missing the point of the AF issues with Nikon in general that im concerned with. All the having to shift from one method to the next (3d pass off Henry Hudson method). Having 4-5 different autofocus modes you have shift through is the downfall of the system. and half the time its just a guess if that mode is going to work this time due to light, contrast, etc. etc. When Canon and Sony can do a find the subject anything in the viewfinder, 1 setup, and one button to acquire 90% of the time to hit the body or eye, then Nikon is falling behind in this sense. And I also know as Jared Polin stated that 'this is the bet autofocus system that Nikon has created'. Meaning, if you only have shot Nikon and used the Nikon way then this is all good. I love this camera but its too much work to be hitting so many buttons to switch your focus mode and pray the conditions are right from your memory on that one. And that fraction of a second means a lot of times a missed opportunity (such as the eagle tussle which I botched as I had too much lens as I was focused on feeding birds out far). but again this firmware is getting it very close

[@Photographersforyou]

@@WILDALASKA thanks for your input and I understand that, I suppose I’m used to the fn af buttons now.

[@OkwyUgonweze]

@@WILDALASKAperfectly defined the Nikon issue . I have Z9 and have shot sony A7iv lately . Nikon makes you press one more button to do most things ,while Sony gives you a direct options.

[@HotGates]

I think it's improved also but like you say my R7 still a little better, On my R7 I use Zone 1 and it's great, But I think instead of the R1 I'm waiting for the R5II.

[@WILDALASKA]

Both should be pretty impressive and probably both in 2024 is my guess. Im curious to see the new r5 firmware update specs when it comes out.

[@HotGates]

@@WILDALASKA Ya I'm wondering about the R5 firmware also, That should be great!

[@panepintosimone8140]

I have to be honest and say that this recent 3.10 is remarkable, considering that , as you said , we are fighting with the medioeval AF areas nikon system. Never happened before, I used the Auto area with tracking detection on a Grebe small not more than 1/8 of the frame, in the water, and it locked on the Grebe. The only problem that is still not consistent like in Canon (but not even like in the A1 that I owe close to my z9). The wide area large is the right pick with consistency, problem is that I love handhold a 600mm f4 , and in flight , keep the bird in that smaller area, is tough job. Thanks for the video

[@WILDALASKA]

thanks and completely agree

[@thomastuorto9929]

I hear Wide Area AF L & then have another button programed to 3D. When the Large box & the AF picks up the subject, switch to the 3D Tracking & it is a lock. Sony leads the way with Canon a very ckose second with the R3. NIKON NEEDS A LITTLE MORE EFFORT IN THE SUBJECT DETECTION AI to keep up. That is why they are taking so long to come out with more cameras. They know people already switched or probably will if wildlife & sports is important to them. I still shoot a Nikon DSLR & from what I see in your vid, I can't go $5500 for this camera. I'll wait a little while to see if they come out with something but will probably make a move to Sony or Canon if they don't by the end of 2023. Happy shooting &, don't worry, I wasn't worried if you would get the R1!

[@WILDALASKA]

Ya Henry Hudson talked about that method. Its just too much button fiddling for me. with the new update im not seeing the need to switch to 3d after acquisition now which is good. Sonys AF is not as fast in acquiring the subject as canon atm. This sensor in the Z9 though is amazing.

[@TimLaytonDarkroomDiary]

The 3.10 update didn't help my AF struggles. I finally gave up on the camera and got rid of it. I tested the Z9 side by side with the Sony A1 and I had excellent results with the A1. After this repeating itself for 2 weeks, I knew it was time to send the Z9 to a new owner and now I am using the A1 exclusively.

[@WILDALASKA]

It was a big jump pm the 3.10 but it is easier on the canon. I don't have any experience with the Sony AF but from what I see from friends cameras it works closer to canons set up. Completely understand.

[@TimLaytonDarkroomDiary]

@@WILDALASKA Love your channel, by the way. I am living vicariously through you because I have always dreamed of living in Alaska.

[@darenaubiephotography8570]

I could see how fast moving horses could be hard to focus on

[@vanlee0831]

Canon is just so good !! WOW

[@WILDALASKA]

they are all good. just canon edging out the af acquisition game

[@EugeneMaynard]

👍🏾🙏🏾

[@WILDALASKA]

:)

[@lewcehjitl3282]

The Canon R8 has better AF than Nikons Flagship very disappointing for Nikon. 😢.

[@garfieldirwin]

Canon has excellent core AF technology -- always has. But they sure seem to be having trouble trying to package a complete solution for photographers. Their body lineup is a jumbled mess and their long lens options leave a lot to be desired. Pick your poison.

[@Photographersforyou]

@@garfieldirwin it depends what your used to - I find the z9 just locks on and keeps on the subject.

[@WILDALASKA]

different systems. But the canon af system has had better 'training' which nikon is catching up on

[@WILDALASKA]

yes but with a lot of work. that's the point. You have to do less work with the current canon system

[@WILDALASKA]

The R5 was and is the complete package for wildlife atm for Canon and with its soon to be released firmware will be its semi flagship (r3 is not enough pixels) But the lack of the r1 kills me!