Nine Sols: Shiny New Game

[@eatcrab9565]

It's the bad ending because Yi becomes everything he was fighting against. He'd functionally become Eigong and forced to maintain status quo. Tianhua is inevitable, it is a symbol of Solarian's sin for defying natural order. There is no cure as the genetic factor is tied to what makes Solarians intelligent, their very essence. So the choice is very deliberately sacrificing a budding civilization in order to merely prolong a dying one. The Solarians died when Tianhua emerged. New Kunlun in many ways is not a preservation, rather a perversion of what Solarians once was, and that is what Yi would be maintaining.

[@csidesummit]

Ah BUT! It was not the act of all Solarians that resulted in the Tianhuo! It was Eigong's act alone which resulted in virus. Nor was it a sin, it was accidental. Now the idea that the virus is tied to the genetic factor is not insignificant, but Solarians existed for thousands of years without the Tianhuo manifesting. If something can exist in one state, it stands to reason a path may exist for it to return to that state if possible. Eigong became frustrated and abandoned this goal when the promise of the mutations seemed like a better option. I posit that Yi did not become Eigong, but rather took up the work she, in her arrogance and haste, allowed to lapse.

[@4000z19]

I think people call the normal end bad ending bc it not only against what Yi fighting for, but also against what this whole game wants to deliver the message or philosophy. And for Yi, the normal ending's "hope" for curing Tianhuo put him into an endless agony tunnel don't know if there's a truly solution for this plague. But in true ending, he sees the hope in apeman. One of true ending's condition is give Shuanshuan a bunch of Solarians stuff for him to play and learn of. That means Solarians will still exists even their entire race extinct, their spirit and culture will inherited by apeman. And the burden and hatred that Yi carried all the way can finally been put down. Bye the way, the nine sols's chinese characters are "九日", and there's a character "旭" which is a combined of those two characters and it means sun rise. A little fun fact that come from producers interview.

[@csidesummit]

@@4000z19 Hm... I like that bit about sunrise. I do agree that Yi is putting himself through a lot on a potentially hopeless task, but I don't agree that it's not worth doing. If anything, I see that as a kind of martyrdom. And one could argue that after years of imprisonment, the apemen deserve more than being dropped on a frozen world to fend for themselves. I mean, I might argue that.

[@StripedVideos]

@@csidesummit It should also be noted that the whole game is basically a Chinese creation myth, and the true ending fulfils that. Most of the characters in this game are direct references to Chinese myth. Yi is Hou Yi, the archer from a myth where he shot down 9 of the 10 suns to prevent them from scorching the earth, leaving 1 as the world needs a sun. All the Sols are various deities or figures in Chinese history. Shuanshuan is the Yellow Emperor, Gongsun Xuanyuan. Shennong is also a ruler who taught agriculture and medicine (and ate most plants to find ones edible to humans), and is thought to be related to the Yellow Emperor. And so on. So in this lore, Chinese culture and religion is passed down to the humans by the Solarians for untold years to come, with a lone Sun remaining to grant them prosperity. And while it came from a sacrifice of the dying breaths of an entire civilization, it could be said that Solarians still live on in the new world... through cats. I'm sure you saw the hidden log entry about the feline creatures that resulted upon removing the gene they shared with the Primordial Roots, stripped of their wisdom and evolved form. What's much easier to miss is once the escape occurs, if the room is reloaded (or you backtrack after leaving), the capsules holding the cats are shattered, they're gone. Heavily implying they escaped and made it to the humans. The screens above each capsule even display the chromosomes "XX" and "XY" respectively, driving home that they are our feline Adam and Eve.

[@csidesummit]

@@StripedVideos You know, I completely missed that bit about the chromosomes and the missing cats. Or, rather, I saw the cats were missing but kind of assumed they'd been killed. The analog with the creation myth is very cool, and I don't dispute anything about them using it or that the 'true ending' fits. I just don't happen to consider the other ending 'bad'. Though I do like the implication that Kuafu is the surviving "Sun" to help the world. For however long he survives.

[@Delmworks]

My favourite thing about this game- and there's a lot to like- is that they introduce unparryable attacks within 1 hour of the game starting...and then within 2 hours tell you -"lol, you can parry these after all actually just kick them", and then 2 hours after that "hey it turns out you don't need to kick them, just parry *BETTER*." red candle really did get one mechanic and decide to maximise it.

[@csidesummit]

The combat system Red Candle came up with is truly incredible. Despite what some have said, most bosses can be defeated in multiple ways. There *are* optimal ways, but in this game that just means there's always room for improvement.

[@SirSamVimesSA]

"is yi small, cute, or angry" "yes"

[@csidesummit]

Correct

[@dmitryreymer3737]

Finally, someone mentioned the pasenger tokens and how heartbreaking they are. And had the same opinion on the endings.

[@csidesummit]

If you were like me, they had the impact of making me want to save them. Only to immediately remember that the opportunity passed a long time ago.

[@max-fu4jd]

I refer to them as the true ending and the good ending for exactly the same reasons you listed

[@csidesummit]

Thank you!

[@stalechite4152]

Hi! I played Nine Sols as well before some folks began making their reviews and such, and I was incredibly happy to see its popularity grow! I know this comment will probably be lost in the sea of others, however, I wanted to point out something as well regarding your criticism on the "true/secret ending" and the "normal/bad ending". Apologies if I cannot explain this in a manner that is wholly comprehensive, as I understand it, Daoism is meant to be something innately understood, not verbalized to explain. In any case, it is obvious that the story follows said daoist themes. The loss of the Solarian civilization is something that follows the natural order of the world, or, Tao. While yes, we can say that Eigong was responsible for the Tianhua virus, it was always to be the case that life, just as sporadically as it begins, ends. The Primordial Roots gave the Solarians its civilization and intelligence, and just as well is able to return all to its origin. That is why Heng herself and those who stayed behind believed it to be a natural phenomenon that they should not run from. Again, regardless of who did it, Eigong or otherwise, and regardless of the method, be it a deadly virus or the slow decline of the Solarians, their civilization was meant to end. I know that one of your points was wanting to preserve the memory of those who had fallen to the Tianhua. However, as cold as it may be to say, in the eyes of Daoism (and in the world of Nine Sols), that is not strictly our responsibility. While yes, we may carry their memory with us for as long as we live, we ourselves will also die. However, it is the Dao who remembers all, because it is all. That's why if you go Red Candle's YT Video of their credits song (Nine Sols by Collage), the description reads as follows; "As long as we have lived, the Tao will remember everything." The Tao, this omnipresent and omniscient part of the universe will be the one that carries the memories of all who have ever lived, even if that may be cold comfort for some, that is the importance of the Tao in this sort of mindset.

[@csidesummit]

I get that, I do. But I am a consummate skeptic. The Tao may exist, but it also may not exist. If it doesn't, then the sacrifice served no real purpose. If it does, why are we so certain it's right? If the bear comes to eat a hive, it's entirely natural. Are the bees wrong to fight for their lives and their young even if all that's gained is pain on both sides?

[@stalechite4152]

@csidesummit regarding the existence of the Tao, I believe that in this particular game, yes, it does exist. While a person like Yi might argue that the Primordial Roots are simply something science hasn't been able to explain yet, I believe it clearly serves the purpose in the story as a manifestation of the Tao, so to speak. That's how it creates things like Yi's ability to resurrect, or giving the Solarians their intelligence, or the ability for Lear and Yi to talk together. Regarding whether or not Tao is "right", unfortunately there's no good way of explaining it that won't end up sounding like "trust me bro" (although it is a very very rough summarization of how to understand the Tao), but I'll try anyway The Tao is everything, and it has it's natural way of doing things. One of the best ways I've compared it to more recognizable concepts is how the Force works in Star Wars. It's an omnipresent "stuff" of the universe that has its own flow, and that everything in the world is a passenger to that flow because that's how it works. I assume that by your analogy of bees fighting for their lives and their young, you're speaking about the Solarian's struggle against the Tianhua. No, there's nothing wrong with struggling against it and wanting to find a method to survive longer. However, the Tao (literally translated to as just the "Way) teaches us that some things will simply happen, and acceptance of it is one of the best things we can do at times instead of constantly suffering through a fruitless struggle. Not to say that Yi trying to find a cure is fruitless, however as I've said, the cycle of the Tao would still end Solarian civilization at some point. Perhaps not in his lifetime, but endings are an inevitability of all things. The major difference between the two endings being the Apemen. In the regular ending, Yi would be either subjecting them to the same processing techniques they already had done before, or integrate them into whatever little of Solarian civilization they have left. In either case, Yi is taking away the Apemen's natural right to partake in the cycle outside of simply living and dying. In the hidden ending, they are allowed that cycle, through the creation of their own civilization and culture

[@rednova2212]

@@stalechite4152 If the roots are a manifestation of the Tao, then we're getting into Christianity and Jesus territory. The Tao doesn't manifest in anything other than to simply feel it. As you had said before, it's not meant to be explained verbally, one simply feels it and knows. A manifestation of it in any form goes against *all* of that.

[@Ipratsuka]

BRO YOUR CHANNEL GAVE ME THREE EXTRA BALLS HOLY SHIT!

[@csidesummit]

All in a day's work, my good man.

[@oakenshadow6763]

So pretty a game, that's for sure! And the lore is so clever.

[@csidesummit]

I'm honestly still astounded at how well they did making an action metroidvania when their last games were much slower paced horror.

[@sammyboi8938]

So regarding the endings, I do agree that calling them bad and true endings are just...not ideal. I prefer calling them by different names like maybe preservation ending and salvation ending. Because none of them are bad, they're both good in their own way. But I DO like the salvation ending more than the preservation ending. Mainly because salvation ending is that, salvation. While the Solarians faced extinction, I don't agree with their culture being dead and whatnot mainly because not ALL Solarians are dead nor are they dead culturally. Don't forget, Kuafu, Yi's partner and best friend, is still there to guide the Apeman and undoubtedly, the culture will stay there. Not just with him but also with Shuanshuan. Shuanshuan received all the teachings and wisdom from Yi, the cultures too. They were taught and handed by Yi to Shuanshuan. In the character bio entry, it is revealed that Yi's influence brought the Apeman civilization to new heights as Solarian culture remains as myth but not dead. You could also read it from their dialogue alone. That and all the many artifacts you found that you handed to Shuanshuan, they're part of the culture too. This particular ending has many themes attached to it, hope, mortality, acceptance and many more. It also coincides with Lear's change in beliefs of science doing more harm than good which is not entirely true but also not entirely false either. Lear witnessed the horror of what science are capable of when they detonated the Rhizomatic Bomb on the Jie clan, wiping them out. Even in Penglai, that still happens with Eigong trying to find a way to become immortal only for it to fail and cause the Tianhuo Virus to spread amongst the Solarians. EVEN after what happened, she was still obsessed with her research for immortality that she used Ji's DNA to mutate tge infected Solarians merely because she thought that by mutating, they became immortal. But what's immortality when you don't have sentience to back it up? Yi became the sole witness of both sides, understanding both perspective. The salvation ending sees that both sides has their own merit but Yi chooses to end everything the Solarians build up similar to how Lear commanded the Fangshi guild to ban every science and convenience made by them except Yi also chooses to place his hopes to Shuanshuan to not make the same mistake as the Solarians did. Both endings, from my perspective, leads to similar results but the salvation ending did that much quicker and also more emotionally. Like, the preservation ending is just Yi returning back to Penglai and lead the Apemen to a brighter future but in the end, he will die of either the virus or old age, leaving Shuanshuan and the Apemen to carry his hopes and legacy. It leads to a similar result as in salvation ending, which just does it much quicker and Yi returns to the Great Tao to reunite with Heng. I don't think in the preservation ending, he'll become like Eigong and search for immortality, no. Hell, it even shows in the beginning of that cutscene where he prays to Heng's grave, accepting her death as part of the natural order. And in the end, the Solarians all in that ending too will die due to the virus. The virus infects all Solarians, there were no exception. Those who mutate are a different story as those are the results of Eigong's obsession as not all Solarians were infected with that particular strain of the Tianhuo Virus. So in conclusion, while I do prefer salvation ending more than the preservation ending, both endings lead to the same results; the Apemen or *Humans* more specifically, reaching the heights in which the Solarians once dreamed off both in science and spiritually. They became the newfound hope in the universe. Nine Sols is an amazing game, I do agree that it's not the new Hollow Knight. It's Nine Sols and it should be treated as its own thing

[@csidesummit]

There is one thing worth nothing regarding the Tianhuo. There are three Solarians in Nine Sols who appear to have at least some kind of immunity, and Yi is one of them. The most obvious is Ji, who through some fluke of genetics is biologically immortal. The second is Kanghui, who has spent 500 years being used as a generator for genetic samples used to create the guards. Yi, likewise, spent 500 years not in stasis, and did not die of the Tianhuo. Now his regeneration is not the same as the others. He is clearly infected and when he dies in-game he produces a Tianhuo flower. But when he revives, he does so fully intact. There's no great reason to think this ability would end because of a change in geographic location. We don't really know how the roots work, but this started before New Kunlun was launched and persisted afterwards. So I think it's reasonable that Yi has at least the length of his life to pursue this. If it takes longer, the Apemen will either follow in his footsteps or inherit a planet of technology they'll have grown up understanding.

[@oneofnone7947]

This game is amazing oh lord the dream fight is a nightmare especially that last phase

[@csidesummit]

I didn't even realize until long after I'd played the game that Ethereal doesn't hide herself in the third phase. It would have made it a lot easier, but I'm not sure that would have been a good thing.

[@_SmiIe_]

Fantastic video. I completely agree with you on the true ending - in the end Yi's philosophy fits me better than Heng's. I can't accept that death by virus should be embraced because it's part of a natural order - if a car was speeding towards you would you not move out of the way? Is there not something to be said for fighting against the odds when hope exists? I absolutely agree that there is beauty in acceptance and resignation when the time is right, but there's hope here. The only conundrum is the monkey brain machine. Presumably the brains last some period of time before becoming used, and the amount of Solarians kept alive can scale with this. This sets a time limit on how long Yi can work on the cure before all the Solarians are dead, but it means there won't be any fresh monkey blood on his hands (just old monkey blood). And what's the downside here? Like okay sure, the Solarian society was far from perfect, but no society is. Why is rebooting it any less noble than rebooting human civilization or whatever? Despite my life philosophy fundamentally going against what the game's message is, parts of the story and characters still hit hard.

[@csidesummit]

Thank you! I did not expect that to be such a controversial take. I hadn’t even really considered the idea of scaling down as needed. Itself a brutal choice, but it’s a brutal situation.

[@RicardoLuna]

Fighting every fight is a recipe for a miserable life. Daoism teaches that there is power in being soft, in giving up and in letting go. Life is not about extending it's span at all costs, it's about enjoying it as much as possible. So, the question is not if there is a cure, the question is: is Yi having a fulfilling life?

[@aralanstradivari2841]

As for the bad ending, it is mainly bad due to… SPOILERS The entire fight is futile, you merely prolong a dying civilization, and you do so through vicious imperialism. One could view the solarians and the humans as a colonizer with an indigenous population. There is no reversing Tianhuo, only futile attempts, in increasing desperation and evil, to try and preserve what is dying, rather than finding peace in the end. Either way though, really good video!

[@csidesummit]

I understand this perspective. But I really don't share it. "There is no reversing Tianhuo" isn't fact, it's prophecy. The actions of one Solarian caused it. Purely by accident. Their society lived for generations before without it activating. The idea that it could never, ever, no way be made dormant again is the word of despair. Like saying if the water is boiled, it could never become ice. That perspective is further undermined by the existence of Kanghui and Ji, who for some reason are immune to Tianhuo. And Yi, who is not immune but who regenerates with each death.

[@clockworkprovidence6760]

I will add my own two cents here, about what each ending meant to me. As many have pointed out, the true ending is true in the sense that it follows the themes of letting go, of Heng's ideology of returning to the cycle, and not repeating the sins of not only the sols, but of Yi himself. The "bad" ending is stagnation, it marks a return to struggle against the natural order, and of Yi's slide back into pragmatism. Yi continues forward with an uncaring drive for progress that ultimately led to his death the first time. And crucially, the choice in the ending reflects this idea, Yi chooses between the Solarians and the humans. In the first, while the Ape men might one day inherit a reborn Penlai, we can't really gloss over the brain harvesting. Yi here chooses to continue leeching off this budding race, while actively aware they are sentient and emotive. Especially since he has formed a deep emotional bond with an example of that race, but looks over the thousands of other just like him (barring one or two). The passenger token are heart breaking true, (I didn't sell a single one either), but how many more Apeman will have the exact same stories unheard as their selves are unmade? And what about in the future? Say Yi does find a cure, the planet is now left with two races, one is dwindling and will probably die off soon (I don't think transmuting gene diversity is a safe idea), and another is saddled with the unenviable baggage of once having been a resource, inheriting a world heavily seeped in the ghosts of its past, don't forget, Penlai was not a paradise, even before the plague. despite their advancements, theirs was a race at risk of VR addiction, of ideological clashes, and don't forget had the capacity to build the equivalent of nuclear weaponry. How far will humanity truly go without knowing the lessons these advancement teach first hand? And don't get me wrong, trying to advance under a defrosting earth might be worse, but to choose the Solarians is to rob humanity of the chance to even try, they can never develop their own unique cultures, practices, or even world. On the other hand, to choose humanity is not to doom Yi's race in my opinion, it is to allow change. Heng hints at the Fusang incarnating the dead in its roots, lear is an example, we even see Heng herself in the true ending. But suppose the more spiritual aspect doesn't appeal, I will argue we are not truly killing off the last remnants of the solarians. Kunlun is the last dying gasp of the old, and while many last words and monuments will burn in plasma, penglai still exists. Remember, the solarians dead of Tianhuo left behind fruits, tao fruits to be exact, I'd like to believe these will be the new form of the solarian, whatever form that may take, budding under the endless field of flowers their old world has become. Their world is not truly gone, but also not saddled with another race. to choose the solarians is prolonging the inevitable, dooming the future, but to choose humanity is to believe in the cycle, to allow a fresh start for both the Apemen and Solarians. And while I will always lament those left on kunlun, whose only sin is being born too late, I find the true ending to be the best one for both.

[@csidesummit]

I appreciate the idea that the Solarians continue to exist in some capacity within the roots (I think you're the first commenter to mention that). But I don't think the idea of ending their culture and returning humanity to the stone age will ever sit well with me. Especially for Shuanshuan. He literally learned about computers, then learned how to program them, and tomorrow he'll be back to hoping his aunts don't die from childbirth.

[@clockworkprovidence6760]

​​@@csidesummitI Should think that with Kuafu the tech genius and a literal boat load of tech, that humanity will get its head start either way. And unfortunately the solarian's living culture will die in both cases, whether that is tortuously prolonged or blindingly brief.

[@csidesummit]

@@clockworkprovidence6760 I would love the idea. But Kuafu's days are very numbered. That said, all this is based on the idea that the events of Nine Sols are based in the past, specifically the ice age. If that's not the case, then there's room for a sequel wherein humanity revives through that technology. Which I would very much enjoy.

[@themonadoman116]

thank you for highlighting this game!!!

[@csidesummit]

No problem! It earned it!

[@huangkeqi8263]

more people need to play this game NOW

[@csidesummit]

They would definitely benefit from doing so :)

[@shadespear]

Cool that you're talking about one of my favourite games of all time! I haven't beaten it yet though, so I'll have to save this video for later. (sorry!)

[@csidesummit]

No worries, it'll still be here when you get through. Good luck in the fight!

[@shadespear]

@@csidesummit Thanks mate! I'll need it!

[@finnalexmejia9179]

Wow! Every video you release is better than the last man!!! This was an amazing watch, comedy on point, the editing was fantastic, AGH big fan!!! I would never play this game bc my hand eye coordination is TERRIBLE but it looks amazing, strikingly beautiful and it looks pretty dark too. Another wonderful watch, keep it up

[@csidesummit]

Thank you so much! Admittedly this was kind of a rushed job. But I felt it came out okay.

[@eb924]

funfact the last boss checkpoint node actually allows you to activate story mode because of how the saving is treated because you switching the mode itself is also lost in progress xd

[@csidesummit]

Man that almost feels like a jab. Developer thinking "Yeah it's going to be hard to beat this one, better give them an out."

[@eb924]

@@csidesummit probably a unintentional feature but i ain't against it

[@eb924]

@@csidesummit its because that last checkpoint is completely forgotten if you replay

[@cachotognax3600]

If you like parries and not being slow you might enjoy Furi and Metal Gear Rising: Revengence

[@csidesummit]

Furi interests me and has been on my list for a while. I have seen the final boss of MGS:R and it looked so comical it sort of killed my interest.

[@ejh7698]

Absolutely fantastic video review!

[@csidesummit]

Thank you! It was a very worthwhile game!

[@shadespear]

I finally beat the game and watched the video! Excellent stuff as always! One thing you didn't mention that I'd like to yap about a bit is the Story Mode of the game, as it is THE best ""I suck at the game"" option I've EVER seen in any game ever! I was VERY hesitant to turn it on, despite the intense (and physically harmful to my person) rage I experienced at one specific point in the game, but eventually I gave in; I THOUGHT it would negate all difficulty and ruin everything which made me very sad...but then it turns out that it lets YOU decide how much assistance you need and how; do you just need to cause a little more damage? Up the attack multiplier a little! I didn't fiddle with the other option, but I think it might've changed some damage to internal damage instead? I don't know, I only needed that little damage boost to get through, and again; it's adjustable! So I could STILL have a challenging experience WITHOUT causing internal damage (ha) to myself from internalized anger! TLDR; Nine Sols has an ""easier"" mode that lets you adjust some settings so it can keep being difficult without being "this isn't fun" difficult, AND it lets you bring the settings back to default when/if you feel like you can handle it; baby steps for those who need it!

[@csidesummit]

That's nice to hear! I appreciate when games have wide accessibility options.

[@JustusDalporto]

Dude I found your channel A few week ago And it's really good I can't wait to see you next post🤙

[@csidesummit]

Next video will be going up tomorrow at noon :)

[@csidesummit]

And welcome! Thanks for following!

[@rednova2212]

"One that needs more fan-art.... No, not that kind!" YES! YES THAT KIND!

[@csidesummit]

Fine, just don't let KZbin see it

[@rednova2212]

@@csidesummit XD

[@Milliondollarloser]

The way I see it, the “bad” ending is not learning from the mistakes of everyone. Each sol got fixated on their personal values and never worked together, each falling to their own damnations after damning their sectors of power. Him going back to continue the process is, while could lead to salvation if extremely unlikely, a selfish choice. Preserving his own power as he believes as he always had in his youth that science will have the answer. He may even have the humans continue the work as he sleeps, seeing them as tools as he saw all the world as before he awoke to the nightmare. It’s bad because he goes back to who he was before, a scientist with no family looking for solutions instead of living. He will die looking for a cure believing this is the best use of his life. Worse, the humans will be slaves to his will as they try to continue the process that will likely be the only thing keeping them alive on a foreign “dead” world of roots and flowers. They will also never be allowed to grow and flourish as they will be inclined to continue the process as the automatons he once held so dear over actual people. Best case is a few hundred return to a world thousands of years decayed with humans as their slave race to rise again. Most likely they all die and the humans are left to fend for themselves in a world they have no context nor connection to the roots to survive alone.

[@csidesummit]

See, I don't see it that way. Shuanshuan adapted quickly to use of Solarian writing and technology. The humans shown in the ending appear very familiar with the workings. If anything, I think Yi has given them a chance to jump-start their civilization. The bios for Shuanshuan and Shennong refer to the great things each will do in the future, but neither indicates *where* they are when they do things. That indicates that Shennong will be "Shennong the Great" whether on Earth or Penglai. Hell, they outnumber him dramatically, know where he sleeps, and no longer see Yi and his people as gods. They could take him out at any time if the relationship were predatory.

[@Milliondollarloser]

@@csidesummit you forget their connection to the roots are genetic. While humans may understand the tech and logic, they don’t have that inner connection that let solarians manipulate the roots themselves, the tau, nor the spiritual connection the solarians all shared. The solarians used that connection to the roots to survive and thrive. Humanity without that genetic connection will not be able to connect to it. The entire island ship is made of said roots and needs the tau connection through their spiritual and genetic connection to be formed. The planet was connected to the solarians and without them there are no tenders. Just humans who can only use the tech and hope it keeps working

[@Milliondollarloser]

@@csidesummit my comment disappeared and I don’t have time to write down the whole post. You forgot the solarian genetic gene that connected them to the roots which connected them to the tau and their source of power and creation. Humans don’t have it, they may use the tech, but the roots are disconnected from them, dooming them once the solarians are extinct

[@Milliondollarloser]

@@csidesummit why is my comments disappearing?

[@Milliondollarloser]

@@csidesummit genetic solariarn marker not in humans

[@cicadaenthusiast3954]

dude i am sorry to inform you but "tao" is not pronounced like that. it's pretty much the exact same as you were saying it but the t makes a d sound other than that though, great video! love ya channel and i reckon its severely underrated. Btw just cause you seem to enjoy reviewing indie games that have gone under the radar a bit, i'd really recommend Crashlands, very fun top-down sci-fi rpg with solid combat and pretty enjoyable character writing and worldbuilding. it's got a similar style of humour to deathbulge

[@csidesummit]

Thanks for the info. I really should have taken more time to research that topic. I was kind of in a rush to get this video out on time. Crashlands in definitely on my radar. I actually brought it for my ipad years ago but didn't enjoy the touch screen gameplay. Then I kind of forgot about it -_-;;

[@judahguerrero1090]

To address your perspective on the bad ending, you are, for whatever reason, justified in critiquing because philosophy at its finite core is ultimately going to be circular and given adhoc reasonings to rationalize what could be true, with that said interpretation is going to derive from whatever ethical system you were raised on and seeing anything outside of internal biases is challenging to not interject something contrary to what you believe to be "good" or "bad. The way I see it is that the game wrestles with Eastern and Western philosophies while allowing credence to them as a form of balance, but ultimately, this was a spiritual journey for Yi, not a pragmatic scientific one. Yi starts out as a full-blown skeptic, much like the famous atheist David Hume. He questions everything that is not quantified and measured. Thus, his worldview falls into the line of utilitarianism. Whatever outcomes produced greater numbers for the prosperity of his race, that is, inherently survival rather than what OUGHT to be. It's like one of the most contentious philosophical debates given rise by Christianity and secularists. "How can you get an ought from an is?". The council of the Nine Sols wanted a secular nation, which is why they rid themselves of religious ideologies that consist of Taoism, which is kinda of like naturalism. This ideology was what shaped Eigong motivations and intentions. She could not see this through the prism of what ought to be, she saw it as a tool to speed up the evolution of her race, because animals have no concept of good, they only are biologically adaptive as a species to only replicate. Within this scope, you can not get a good or a bad. You are only left with what IS. Lear saw this and recognize how detrimental this worldview was and decided to undo all of their hard work in retaking societies from who they considered to be evil. He saw the same circular fate if he was to be the next tyrant to only just repeat history. He broke away from the chains of science and did what was good by embracing the Tao. Yi went through a similar journey. He found good in the apemen and questioned his motives and worldview. If he were to become Eigong, then every sol he killed would have been in vain and somewhat murderous because they died for nothing. That's my two cents.

[@csidesummit]

I don't really see Yi's position as a skeptic changing over the course of the game. If anything, he passes his skepticism on to Shuanshuan (reinforced by Shennong). And proceeds to teach him Solarian scientific methods and techniques then celebrates his successes with them. There's an interesting point to note about the two endings. The circumstances which lead to them are determined by your choice. If you choose the true ending, Yi is placed in a position where he no longer really has the choice to save his own people. Destroying the hypermutant with the bomb is the only way to end their suffering. If you choose to save the Solarians, then you don't get the third phase and Eigong simply never finishes her task. So the true ending isn't so much Yi's choice as the situation he's locked into.

[@judahguerrero1090]

@csidesummit That is a good point to raise, and I see your understanding of it. Though there are some things I would put into question. Science and skepticism are not the same thing in terms of comparing paradigmatic worldviews. Science is a methodology, whereas (Arguably) skeptism is a worldview. It holds meta ethical baggage and presupposes things like doubt, mistrust, suspicion, etc. Science can not posit these synonyms because science is a discipline of observation from the senses. So science is morally neutral, like if I put my hand on the burner over and over until I learn that putting my hand on something hot will result in pain, therfore I should refrain from doing so, there is no good or bad within a hypothesis. So there is nothing wrong with sharing things you've learned with other people, as Yi did with ShuanShuan. I think there is a conflation within the two, there. I think the messaging there was WHY was Yi sharing what he's learned? And he was questioning this as ShuanShuan pressed on these things as you unlock all of the snippets of story between the two along the length of the game's narrative. Yi did not have an answer as to why he was because skeptism had nothing to do with an ought, Yi couldn't reconcile his relationship with ShuanShuan bc of the criteria of what his worldview entailed.

[@csidesummit]

@@judahguerrero1090 I'm sorry I'm not really following the train of thought there. What was it about his relationship with Shuanshuan he couldn't reconcile? I feel that any question of his concern for Shuanshuan competing with his initial dismissal of Apemen as a tool was resolved when he saved Shuanshuan at the start. That action only harmed him and his goals, something Yi was clearly aware of.

[@ricochet1732]

one thing about the critique of the taopunk aesthetic looking like mostly chinese aesthetic: taoism is more than a religion, it's more like an entire lifestyle and philosophy branch. of course because taoism heavily influenced chinese culture, a taopunk aesthetic would look chinese in the same way saying a work is inspired by catholism would look a lot of european architecture and art btw NOT saying taiwan == china i mean generically also: the bad ending is obviously the bad ending because it goes against taoism... because it is a TAOPUNK story, which is to take down the authoritarian and wayward administration that has become of the solarians and to allow the natural order of things to continue, where societies wax and wane (again: see chinese history's rise and fall of dynasties!) I guess it would make sense a white person from america wouldn't understand this, beyond your civil war your society never had to learn that renewal over continuation is completely possible and may even be for the best

[@csidesummit]

That's a really good analogy regarding the aesthetic. We don't really have a parallel for that in America despite the alleged christian origins. But that's definitely the case in Europe. So two things on the second point: The first is that our civil war wasn't really a renewal, it was the resolution of a fundamental conflict (How can we be a free nation if slavery exists?). Remarkably little changed in governmental structure, though there were major social changes. That's fine, that from a Tao perspective this is the bad ending. I am simply approaching it from a perspective which is skeptical of that perspective.

[@zainabbatool3179]

Bruh how did this get less veiws than ugly.....THATS TERRIBLE

[@csidesummit]

Twisted are the ways of the algorithm...

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

:+ D

[@csidesummit]

:o}