Which Ramp Spells are Worth Playing? | A Guide to Mana Ramp in Commander

[@WayfarersBauble]

Thanks for the love! 😊 not being a budget card anymore breaks my heart because it means I don't show up in Mitch's decks anymore.

[@NitpickingNerds]

@Wayfarer's Bauble you can come hang out in our comment section, I think Grave Titan is also around here somewhere

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Armillary Sphere the really distant cousin of Wayfarer Bauble? :P

[@WayfarersBauble]

@@nathanmoore3866 Calling it superior is not really a fair comparison, though. Yes, it is generally the more powerful card, but the two have different purposes. It's like trying to compare something like Explore or Nature's Lore/Three Visits to Sylvan Scrying. In a vacuum, Scrying is probably more powerful, but it doesn't get you ahead of your opponent unless the land you're getting specifically does that. You can't directly compare the two. What's really messed up is that I'm more expensive than Sol Ring. Armillary Sphere just sucks. There's no reason to ever play that card in a world where Map exists.

[@GabetheFrog_]

Hey what’s up. I see you on Mitch’s channel all the time lol

[@junjiito6298]

FIRST UP....

[@ShivaFamilyGaming]

I thinking about building a Abzan EDH with the following components: Ramp: Cultivate Stax: Ghostly Prison Win Con: Grave Titan Thoughts?

[@NitpickingNerds]

This deck sounds unbeatable

[@gravetitan1321]

Is ramp really worth it if you're not ramping into a Grave Titan?

[@NitpickingNerds]

You don't deserve to be cast turn 5 off a Skyshroud Claim!

[@junjiito6298]

The King is here. 😎

[@spinetime4066]

I mean casting a torment of hellfire for x is 50 aslo works

[@jackinthebox1993]

Why did this make me laugh so hard? 😂😂😂

[@arthurvandenbergh1881]

Speaking from experience here after following your advise on the Tormod Kamahl deck; SYNERGY IS SUPER IMPORTANT!! Cutting all the spells that ramp in place of some mana dorks and ETB creatures has made the deck so much more consistently do it’s thing it’s amazing 👍👍

[@NitpickingNerds]

We got you homie!!!!

[@bedwarssweat6205]

The nice part about harrow is that the lands enter untapped costing you 1 mana total. Perfect for landfall

[@pauljimerson8218]

And for keeping up interaction while still ramping

[@shamtactics4712]

Most landfall decks can play lands from graveyards as well super synergy

[@ultratog1028]

And it is an instant for landfall combat tricks.

[@chiggomckekllecuck5117]

Kalamax get four lands for the price of one

[@bigxjeff]

Ive been playing Archaeomancer's Map in boros artifacts and been loving it! It gets actual lands onto the battlefield and in the worst case scenario so far im still able to ramp 1 land so it ends up being a cultivate except it works with ALL my other artifact synergies. Also I hope you guys do that lil shuffle everytime you read it on a card from now on hahahaha

[@NitpickingNerds]

Honestly that's the plan

[@Zedariath]

The map is very good in decks that can abuse artifacts, and honestly the Boros commander really feels like what artifact synergy should be.

[@TheBaconMagician]

I have a silly political Kwain deck and this is killer there. Having a 2 MV commander that draws one every turn is the perfect place for this card. Need the draw to back it up, ofc ofc

[@jeffnorris211]

3 mana draw 3 lands is solid.

[@obskiyurrvideos2906]

Okay....so the part at 36:08 with Yavimaya Elder made me giggle way too much, I greatly appreciate you putting that in there! 🤣❤

[@lunarlight3131]

Anytime you hear a player say “just you wait until I untap” always ends up just dying that turn lmao

[@TheBigPenguu]

I've seen Archeomancer's Map get the player 3 lands into play within two turns, on a couple of occasions. It does pair best with black or blue for card draw, but it's consistent enough to call it a staple.

[@NewOldEBM]

Guys, omg, you're officially my new favourite content creators. Not to throw shade but the number of times I listen to the command zone go "hur dur white iz bad @ ramps hehe" drives me INSANE to hear you lads actually using your brains and seeing it as the secondary ramp colour brings me no end of joy, bless both your souls!

[@MrHighlife1992]

Dreamscape artist is one I've always loved in any graveyard/reanimate deck! Fills the yard, and ramps nicely!

[@johnrecordjr.9420]

One with nature gets the snub once again. Such a good ramp card. Surprised it didn’t come up.

[@tryndameregaming7387]

In the right deck it is so broken, and no-one knows it exist.

[@loganmunoz5373]

Dang just looked it up and it’s awesome just bought one foil and two non foils !

[@mscott1997]

I haven't watched the complete video but maybe because it's too conditional...(?) 🤷🏾‍♂️ I need this card in my life though. Now I have to look through more comments for gems

[@EJsGameplay]

As an Aura, it doesn't look very good outside of very specific decks. Like, if you're voltron/enchantress maybe then, but otherwise probably not worth it.

[@greatbrandini3967]

Nature's Chosen is one of my favorite "ramp" cards for enchantress. I run it in Sythis, and between Serra's Sanctum, Sanctum Weaver, Growing Rites, and enchanted lands, I rarely only net 1 mana per turn off of it

[@nathanandrews2686]

This video couldn't have been more perfectly timed. Just today I noticed my Nekusar deck was feeling sluggish. Thanks guys! Something to add, you guys forgot to add in Aesi during the extra land per turn segment. Two lands and card draw on the same card I think is great.

[@mathieubrebouillet714]

I saw three visits as unco, I was, yeah, great ramp... saw the price... kept playing the cultivate and kodoma's reach I got in my preconstructed decks.

[@mizzlchieizzl]

price has come down since they reprinted in legends but yeah it's not cheapo

[@mathieubrebouillet714]

@@mizzlchieizzl on ebay listing, with shipping prices, it is between 10 and 25 $ in France

[@polruiz6587]

You can get it under 5 euros in france

[@mmartak]

Not mentioned, or maybe I missed it: Land Tax Blue: Apprentice Wizard, Dreamscape Artist, Mitotic Manipulation, Retraced Image, Vodalian Arcanist Underrated, not mentioned (but decent in many circumstances): Migratory Greathorn

[@ChannelPony]

Tempt with Discovery can look for non-basic lands. So even if every opponents say 'no' and you only look for one land, you can tutor that very important land (like The World-Tree) and put it into play untapped. Its a sneakier Crop Rotation because it camouflages as a ramp spell when it is a tutor for non-basics. :)

[@RedCometNurse]

Wayfarer's Bauble is basically an auto include in all of my non-green decks.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Agreed!

[@mattiavenier3898]

Into the North is a pretty good ramp card too, especially if you have some snow lands in the deck which will help you build up your "different land name" for field of the dead.

[@aidankeyes5526]

You guys should advertise the deck help channel on the discord its always super active and helpful

[@tonyrosetti2738]

Archaeomancer's Map is White card draw, not ramp. The Burgeoning part is gravy (get the boat).

[@falandrion2870]

I entirely agree with your view on Yavimaya Elder - but doesn't the same apply to Thaumatic Compass? I haven't tried it yet but on paper it seems reeeaaally slow!? What am I missing?

[@RubrDuky1]

If the medallions count as ramp, so do taxing effects like Thalia. Setting back an opponent effectively puts you ahead. For R ramp, you have the Jaya that + to add 3, Chandra that + to add 2, Pyro Goggles, etc.

[@ryankoulos4614]

What about traverse the outlands that’s solid ramp especially for big spell decks

[@garrettallen3999]

Finally! You guys have been bashing Cultivate and other ramp spells, but not giving examples of what you would rather play. Thank you for explaining.

[@johnperseo1044]

Not exactly true. They suggest 2 mana ramp spell (nature lore)or creatures that ramp(fairhaven elves) .

[@garrettallen3999]

True. I just feel they haven't fully explained it until now.

[@sw33tshar3]

Thanks a lot, guys! I just had to order like 40 dollars of cards because of this video!

[@Talif_Moor]

Dang, no mention for Kor Cartographer? Like, I know it's a little overpriced, but it's my go-to for non-green in white since it has no criteria and thus always works, you can grab a non-basic, and you're in white, so flickers and reanimation are available.

[@crovax1375]

Lotus Cobra is definitely one of my favorite ramp pieces!

[@GreenestTrampler]

Definitely agree about higher costed ramp, though ramping into a Boundless Realms is so satisfying.

[@kevinj4002]

Bloom Tender is my favorite. Paying 1 to untap it is one of my favorite things to do in commander.

[@timtauber5557]

Cryptolith rite and crop rotation can both be a huge burst of mana the turn they come into play, but both are dependent upon the number of creatures you control. So obviously the crop rotations sacs a land when cast as part of the cost, you then put Gaea’s cradle or even nykthos, shrine to nyx into play, and cryptolith rite allows any creature, you have in play that started your current turn already in play, to tap for any color mana. Granted both of my suggestions are situational, but worthy of note. Both cards have low mana costs with potentially high ceilings.

[@AKitchell]

If you're playing blue/red artifacts, I highly recommend Storm The Vault. It costs 4 mana, and flips over to Vault of Catlacan when you control 5 or more artifacts during your end step, which is basically Tolarian Academy. I almost always get it flipped over on the turn I play it in my Brudiclad deck, and it gets me an insane amount of mana.

[@nickjensen1004]

Yavimaya Dryad and Smothering Tithe are also good in my opinion.

[@besabaftw]

I didn't see expedition map, what would you say about it when you have a non green deck with a high end mana base?

[@Nobody-zl3kk]

You forgot isolated watchtower, it might not always ramps you but it could be considered a pseudo Castle Vantress that also ramps you fro time to time, in mono Black, Red and White decks that could be a godsend, clearing the top and simultaneously putting an extra land onto the battlefield for 2 mana and taapping a land can be really nice and if you count Sevine's reclamation as ramp then Isolated is too.

[@robertmorris4163]

Luke your practical approach

[@jordankirby7632]

I think the main difference between burgeoning and exploration is the hand clause on burgeoning. If you are working in a lands matter deck (i wouldnt call it a landfall deck as many of the best lands matter cards dont even have landfall) burgeoning has very little synergy where exploration will have a lot more synergy with like Crucible, Oracle of Mul daya ecetera.

[@XionXLR8]

Personally I haven’t sleeved up a solemn or bauble in forever and never used burnished heart. Even for non green decks. I know it can punished easier but I pretty much only use the talismans/signets/stones etc. with little issue. I just wanna be doing better things by turn 4. Barring some sort of artifact/sacrifice/landfall synergies.

[@skykur]

If I have a 5+ mana commander, I’m playing cultivate and kodamas reach. Keeping a hand of 3 lands and culti feels very safe. If I have a 4 mana commander, I skip them. They often have no synergy and playing them on turn 3 feels bad

[@TheBaconMagician]

Nice video! You two do a good job analyzing & explaining your reasoning, and even when I don't agree I can follow your thoughts. Gotta say tho: huge fan of rampant growth. While I don't often build budget, I think 2 mana land ramp is premium and this card is just fine. Depends heavily on the MV of your commander; i.e. bad if 3, pretty good if 4. Cultivate/kodama's also quite good for 5 MV commanders as it guarantees you play it next turn. -Def not for every deck though; whole heartedly agree. (Also last note, I've built like 20 decks and sad robot has gone in 2. I just think 4 is too much outside a heavy blink/reanimate deck)

[@heartoftanks4388]

I have cut Tempt with Discovery for Pir's Whim in my Xenangos deck for that same reason. So many people just say no to the tempt. With Pir's Whim I can help or hurt my opponents while searching for my Kessig Wolfrun.

[@MrNajie]

One pretty obvious thing to note is for cards like azusa, if you don't have any lands in hand it is no longer ramp. It more accelerates the lands out of your hand than actually fetching them out of your deck. I always like to distinguish between those two types of ramp.

[@PlayerThe90]

My dear nitpickers, great content as always

[@Arisawa_Heavy_Ind]

A video on fast mana/ritual cards like chrome mox and lotus petal would be cool. (DONT FORGET TO INCLUDE TINDER WALL!)

[@NitpickingNerds]

tinder wall is most important

[@GabetheFrog_]

I know Tinder Wall from pauper. That card is actually in tier 1 decks lol. It’s pretty cool

[@Arisawa_Heavy_Ind]

@@GabetheFrog_ I found it on scryfall when I was looking for 1cmc green mana dorks. I was so surprised that I have never seen it in any decks before because it's a really really good card. It's basically a pyretic ritual for 1g with added creature synergy.

[@hunterlopez5001]

Alright the "Shuffle" got me 😂😂

[@NitpickingNerds]

It's like our new favorite thing lol

[@yellowsquashbanana]

I'm working on changing my Quandrix precon to an Esix deck while watching this. Keeping ramp in mind.

[@golgariguy]

Something I noticed is that in many green decks I'm playing so many Elves for ramp purposes (Llanowar Elves and co., Wood Elves, Springbloom Druid etc.) that Priest of Titania becomes a very solid inclusion. Other solid cards are Overgrowth in enchantress decks and Devoted Druid in decks in which you care about creatures dying or about +1 counters. By the way, where can we see Joe Cherry's Xenagos list? :)

[@golgariguy]

@James Black Absolutely, for example in my own Xenagos list I have like 6 or 7 elves so Priest often taps for 2, and even when it doesn't it is still decent. Not to mention thr fact that it counts all the elves *on the battlefield*, and elves are so ubiquitous.

[@zzone121]

yeah, i cut tempt with discovery from my budget deck when i used it to take out an enters tapped scry land and the other guy used it to get a volcanic island

[@crawdaddy1234]

I think Kodama’s Reach and Cultivate are best in the decks that want Exploration. Turn 1: Land, Exploration, Land Turn 2: Land, Cultivate, Land

[@PlaidMagic]

Harrow ramps 1, but fixes 2. That card is something better than it looks, I’ve always been happy to draw it, esp early game

[@dac314]

Burgeoning is great, I love it. First turn Burgeon, get maybe 2-3 extra land-drops in before your opponent(s) waste removal on it because it's so frustratingly good and it interrupts their turn. Sounds like a GREAT card to me.

[@jasonbarry3301]

How do I calculate the mechanical efficiency of my ramp? Does the angle of the card mater? Do I need to account for gravity?

[@NitpickingNerds]

Ummm... yes

[@dj_thunderkwark1536]

12:35 lmao 'GILDED LOTUS' in perfect sync👌

[@jordonpohl7393]

Oh I hear cultivate is a good ramp card!

[@NitpickingNerds]

Not a fan :P

[@GabetheFrog_]

@@NitpickingNerds my dilemma is that cultivate gets all the good alt art. 😭

[@BagAccount]

@@NitpickingNerds have you considered that your deck may not support and/or utilize the extra land in hand in a meaningful way? Pick 1 of the following: Exploration effect Discard effect Discard protection Land for turn Burgeoning Hand size matters Maybe cut back on calling it a mediocre card when you don't see the potential value it can give over other ramp spells. Got 1 mana mana-dorks? Turn 2, cultivate! Got exploration turn 1? Turn 2, 5 lands in play, turn 3 six-drop! Also, I honestly don't know what kind of mono-colored deck wouldn't want a medallion. I run on in my mono-green stompy and it usually saves me 1-5 mana a turn.

[@NitpickingNerds]

@@BagAccount we understand the upsides of it. We just don’t think they out weigh the building a deck with synergy. We will continues calling it mediocre as that our opinion on the card. You are free to disagree as we not the end all be all. I could see certain decks wanting green medallion but definitely not an auto include.

[@waitingwarrior4203]

What ramp would you think of for Jadzi? I love the idea of abusing land to hand ramp effects for her Journey to the Oracle ability. Get like 4 landfall triggers, and make the spell free sounds great to me.

[@SWAT6809]

Sadly no mention of treasure map, which imo is very underrated. A slow ramp spell for 2 mana and if your deck can make treasures in any way suddenly your land also provides some card draw. PS: pls always cut to both of you when you shuffle.

[@Ixidora]

In my playgroup the strip mine response to tempt with discovery became the default, if we had a strip mine or wasteland we grabbed it if not we said no. It quickly lost usage.

[@markoramius4689]

I will advocate for Burgeoning in a landfall deck. I run it in Omnath landfall, and the value I get off it is insane. I don't even have the space here to list all the value it gets, but let's just say when you have a Living Twister on board, you never miss a Burgeoning trigger. I usually have at least 3 landfall effects in play to abuse.

[@nyveara]

I think tempt with discovery is more viable because even if opponents know the best strategy is just to decline to ramp, there are going to be cases where the opponent might be out of lands in hand or want a shuffle effect etc, where you still probably get 2+ ramp out of it. Still not a wonderful card but pretty effective. I prefer it to 'Hour of promise' in most scenarios because 4 mana feels a lot more playable than 5 mana for grabbing *any* land, and 1-4 compared to 2 is a risk I'm willing to take XD

[@magiccardmaster9921]

White has gotten ramp over the ramp but more catch up like land tax but most of it is slow and only going last cards

[@alslayer18]

Yavimaya Elder is card advantage (it "draws" 2 lands when it dies, and draws an extra card if you use its activated ability). I agree that it is not ramp, and as a card advantage card seems really meh to me. (3 mana for delayed 2 land draws that might not trigger if it isnt killed, or 5 mana for draw a card and draw 2 lands (even if paid over multiple turns) just sounds bad)

[@Jaffonso23]

archeomancer's map is bonkers good in white, boros. I even have one in my oloro esper lifegain deck that's pillowforty with sphere of safety.

[@demolisherman1763]

Does Grave Titian count as ramp if you have Ashanod’s or Phyrexian Altar?

[@Greg501-]

If you untap with it or give it haste, yes

[@adambandurak8913]

Fertile Ground is my favorite enchant land, goes really well with Earthcraft.

[@DeanJohnCasey91]

Late to the party, but when talking about ramp in the late game, it ultimately depends on the deck. My landfall Obuun deck definitely appreciates any landfall triggers I can get, even late game.

[@grandogrando6505]

The new one that makes a fractal is amazing in my standard selesnya counters deck

[@oneshot8109]

Is Once Upon a Time a trap? I feel like the upside is big enough to make it worth it for any green deck, especially since you can also grab a creature in later turns. It's also very budget since it's banned in most formats.

[@tonyantony6110]

Daily quality videos. I mean why would you NOT like, make a comment and be subscribed to the NN. Get this boys payed people, help them keep up the goodness coming...

[@jasondeutschbein8102]

The shuffle made me so happy though. XD

[@xyzn1]

Ramp is always useful, but what is the consensus on Rituals? I'm currently using Dark Ritual in a mono-black deck (as well as terrain generator and walking atlas) and I'm curious if it should stay or if there are better alternatives.

[@Mat-bw3ok]

I'm guessing sky shroud claim is best in 4-5 colour decks or something with a relatively lean average cmc? I don't want to ramp turn 4 generally and would prefer to get a creature or something out to take the heat off my commander but I haven't built a deck with more than 3 colours yet. I have one for Ayula just so I can ramp and play a bear right away but it's not exactly a high powered deck (although she is fun to play)

[@imGrisky]

how about recross the path? it can be pretty awesome with the clash in BIG decks.

[@OGjimbo]

Treasure tokens are the red mana ramp.

[@SpainLord]

Ive been using primal growth in my atla palani deck to trigger her ability, i dont think itd be worth running in anything else though!

[@tienkieu4806]

I would argue that Springbloom druid is a solid card for budget players if you are building a 4+ colors commander. To that kind of deck fixing your mana is just as important as ramping itself.

[@kylesavage4525]

Important note for this video is to not take any of the segments of it out of context and always keep in mind that the assessments of the cards are all compared to the best ones in the beginning of the video. Otherwise u will get a very different message from what they intend u to. I remember when i first found out about the existance of Skyshroud Claim and the importance of ramp in edh i bought several of them only to realize that all but one of my green+ commanders were at 4-5 cmc which made the card kinda awkward. Obviously u need a lot of dual typed lands to make proper use of it since getting two basics out of it feels bad.

[@sirknightdude2587]

Opinions on UnTappers? Voyaging Satyr / Arbor Elf, Magus of the Candelabra, Kiora's Follower / Vizier of Tumbling Sands?

[@CaptainRoss]

I've been cutting Wayfayer's Bauble for Surveyor's Scope in my non Green decks. The upside is bigger, the card cost less to play and is more budget. Getting 1,2 or 3 lands for 2 mana is a better deal.

[@billcypher564]

Hour of Promise fetching Thespian Stage + Dark Depths is my go to combo :D

[@kyubikirby]

I play Yavimaya Elder in exactly one deck, and its my Sasaya Orochi Ascendant deck, which wants me to get to 7 lands in hand as quickly as possible. so yeah, not ramp, but there are almost always fringe cases for these cards.

[@radicaledward5681]

I don't consider explore or growth spiral a good ramp because you really don't wanna see them in your starting hand with less than three lands. More than that, if you draw into them instead of normal ramp spell, when you have no lands in hand is makes them 2 mana draw 1 card. I'd rather play rampant growth or edge of autumn (that cycles itself almost for free) rather than them. Well and three visits is incompatibly better than them.

[@gohengcheong7097]

Burgeoning is sick if u have fetches in graveyard and crucible of world effect.. it can scale furthermore then exploration.

[@Zo3yX]

Cultivate goes well with wingrace. Grab a land and draw 2

[@matiassalazar2412]

I would argue that harrow is so much better than you are stating. They do not come in tapped and the sacrifice is so good. It is ramping for one mana essentially. And in my korbold deck is draw a card and ramp 1.

[@mrconchapelua]

by the transitive property of synergy: The Great Henge > Sphinx-Bone Wand => Cultivate < Elvish Rejuvenator

[@WolfPackProductions1320]

What ramp would you suggest for a selesnya ramp running 20 lands and 4 selenya gates

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

My new favorite red ''Ramp'' spell for my Zada, Sudden Breakthrough ( 2cmc instant target creature gets +2 first strike, create a treasure token), last game I made 8 treasures. LOL I won the game next turn after that. Funny how much Selvala cost till they recently reprinted the card ;p

[@serenab5707]

I honestly wish green ramp had gotten a video of its own

[@jameshill2450]

In the case of ramp specifically, I disagree with saying that (for example) Skyshroud Claim only costs two because you get the lands untapped. Especially right after you said the cost of a ramp spell is super relevant - you need to get to 4 to play it, so it can't be counted as a 2-drop in any real sense. Also, making sure you're always able to hit your land drops (i.e. Yavimaya Elder) may not actually be ramp but it fills the same role. Having a land to play when you otherwise wouldn't is basically the same as putting it onto the battlefield, especially alongside Azusa effects when you run out quickly.

[@obadijahparks]

Can you make a video on mono black ramp? I can't hardly find anything besides dark ritual.

[@AbyssArray]

Hmm what about for Rhys the Redeemed? 1 CMC but I guess ramping into actives might be feasible?

[@mscott1997]

I run Rhys elf/wolf token and those dorks are primo with a perfectly timed harvest season

[@Yontanian]

Ive just put 3 visits in my omnath deck. Took out blue suns zenith and i felt good about it.

[@ben_clifford]

+1 For mentioning another Magic channel in the tidbits. It brings us in, because those of us who watch and support you also tend to watch other Magic content.

[@ben_clifford]

Also, it's nice to know about Sakura Tribe Scout. I've been wondering if that's where that came from. 🤔

[@ben_clifford]

Also, you asked about red ramp. For Kiki-Jiki and similar: Mana Echoes Grinning Ignus Treasonous Ogre Sisters of the Flame Edit: Also Dockside Extortionist (forgot about this until your top 15 cards vid)

[@nafaridnafarid]

I was disappointed you considered Thaumatic compass a ramp spell. Can someone explain this? Is it because it turns into a land by turn 5-8?

[@jajahatman8842]

Fertile Footsteps/Beanstalk Giant is underrated if you have other cards which can pay off the second half. For example I play life gain decks and playing Beanstalk Giant with a Verdant Suns Avatar or Trostani to gain a ton of life is something other ramp spells can’t do

[@NitpickingNerds]

I have been underwhlemed by Beanstalk Giant. I never want to cast a vanilla */*

[@calastiels6733]

Archaeomancers map is really good in not green decks. It works really well.

[@afriendofafriend5766]

Is Nykthos a good land in a mono-colored deck with pretty heavy devotion?

[@ghqebvful]

I use cultivate and kodama's in my xenagos deck specifically for when I have xenagos and moraug out. Is that a good enough reason to keep them, or should I look for better things?

[@darron614]

What Joe said about Burgeoning not going in land fall decks because you want the lands/triggers on your own turn isn't completely true. If he said that for 4 color Omnath decks, then that would be totally true. You definitely want Omnath land fall triggers on your turn, but for a lot of other land fall triggers it doesn't really matter. Cards like R/G Omnath, Rampaging Baloths, Scute Swarm, Phylath, Obuun or basically anything that makes creature tokens or adds +1/+1 counters don't care when the triggers happen. If you're making creature tokens, then it's great to happen on an opponents turn so that they don't have summoning sickness when your turn comes.

[@ethanschulze557]

I say this a lot in your comment section, but I really think the "woodland elves and elvish rejuvenator are better than cultivate" take is just nuts. I think a key thing you don't consider is how great the mana fixing of cultivate and kodama's reach are. If you're playing a deck that is three colors or fewer you are guaranteed to have mana of each type. They also cant whiff. Its two mana ramp stapled to one mana draw. They're crazy good. I also do not think that all (or even most) creature decks want to be running mana dorks. If you're a creature deck you're already super weak to board wipes. If a board wipe kills all of your ramp... that's not good! Lands are much safer than dorks.

[@elipetrou9308]

That’s just not how it works in higher power unfortunately, but that’s fine in casual if you’re gonna try that there. Hopefully this didn’t come from that awful commanders quarters video where he says dorks are bad

[@ethanschulze557]

@@elipetrou9308 Dorks aren’t bad! I would say that my meta plays mostly 7s on the power-scale, so if you consider that low power then… okay! Obviously dorks are super powerful especially if you are trying to win on turn 4 or whatever. I just think dorks and wood elves are like not even remotely similar and are sorta weird to bring up in the same breath. Dorks are super efficient mana producers that pay for themselves after one turn and come down early. Wood elves type creatures are really not efficient (like in the way manalith is not efficient) but provide security in that they are land ramp (and like SURE they could have creature synergies but manalith could have artifact synergies. Everything has potential synergy so we can’t use that in broad evaluation like this). Dorks are very high-risk high reward (unless you are playing in a very strong meta where boardwipes don’t exist). The root of my comment and the main takeaway should be: cultivate and kodama’s reach are terrific! Yes they are three mana but they draw you a card and fix your colors which elves and dorks can’t do. I think for most commander players they should be auto-includes in every deck with green

[@elipetrou9308]

@@ethanschulze557 I suppose that’s fair, I like wood elves in any deck that can abuse it, but if I’m playing zacama or something I’d probably run cultivate. But in any decks that’s trying to win fast or can sac or abuse the dorks I prefer them, also turn one ramp is just awesome

[@alenphull]

the problem with white ramp is that it never pays to draw the second one. So, even if they print 6 different white catchup spells, you still wouldnt want to run enough to reliably draw them, because after you catchup once or twice, you jusst dont need any more