No Fabric FRENCH DRAIN - Capillary Action in Clay Soil - French Drain Science

[@josephcastaldo4881]

Thank you for your generosity in making these videos. I was struggling with drainage in clay soil and the catch basin seems to be the fix I needed!

[@antoniobrown3219]

Sorry for the confusion and simple minded question but: Clay soil, Fabric or No Fabric?

[@JamesZ1025]

Great demonstration, thank you very much

[@BiblicalApologetics]

Loving your videos and the amount of knowledge you share

[@jerseyjim9092]

Makes me wonder if surrounding the fabric with a few inches of sand would solve the clogging issue or would the sand clog too. Other than that I don't think a french drain is a viable long term solution in heavy clay soils.

[@BecauseHeLovedMe1st]

Excellent. Now I'm going to watch it on your other channel (Apple Drains). Thank you 😊

[@keithowen4698]

Hey Chuck your videos are interesting--how deep should the French drain be and does it need to flow in a downward slope to carry the water away?

[@AndrewDay_Aston-Martin-DBS5126]

I have clay and it has never been in the form of a powder! It's more like what you would make a pot out of. How would you even make a powder out of clay??

[@houndsmanone4563]

Great demonstration. Thanks 👍🏽🤠 12/14/23

[@rhondasisco-cleveland2665]

Fantastic information. Thanks for posting

[@akinun]

these are incredibly valuable videos, thanks a lot!

[@Rick-tb4so]

You should show the same thing using fabric wrapped around the stones..

[@snorman1911]

He did that in another video, the fabric clogged up.

[@forced_youtube_handle]

To be clear, it didn’t clog up, the flow rate was just much slower. About half as slow, but the water entering the pipe was dramatically cleaner. I think these videos miss out on an important part, that the filter fabric is to keep silt and crap out of the inside of your pipe. I need my system to be clog free for 30 years, even if it’s going to run a little slower. If it’s a big problem, I would just backfill entirely with stone and the fabric has nothing to clog with.

[@SeanBaker]

I don't recall seeing this video when first put out.

[@danielosborne8228]

I appreciate all your hard work! In this example, do you think omitting the stone would work, provided one has catch basins (which would also operate as cleanouts)? Since the void area gets filled anyway, is there a benefit the stone is providing?

[@brainjar14]

Farmers do it that way regularly for their subsurface drainage tile.

[@dbaish2004]

I'm so confused, and I'm hoping you can help me out. I've watched a lot of your videos and most of them say you need to have stone wrapped in fabric. Is it true that with clay soil you don't want that? In your other video the fabric didn't allow the water to flow in clay soil.

[@bbreede1]

I'm confused as well. I'm in upstate SC and we have clay. Not sure if I should wrap or not?

[@davidbuche]

I think no matter what you do the French drains will fill with clay. I'm focused on grading, the water from to the torrential rains that I am worried about will stay on top of my clay soil and I intend to direct it to a low point in my backyard.

[@snorman1911]

He said in another video that he uses fabric in all soils except clay.

[@cristefen3712]

@@bbreede1 Hello. I am following your discussion. Do you finally have an answer on whether we need to wrap the gravel with the pipe in the clay soil or not? Greetings from Greece.

[@BenDover4Me]

@Barry Syracuse If you have a clay soil DO NOT wrap the pipe or burrito wrap the pipe . Wrapping in filter fabric in a clay soil will cause the filter fabric to clog with clay preventing water ingress into the French drain. The filter fabric is for non-clay soil types. Hope that helps.

[@beholdcaesar]

Loose clay soil behaves nothing like hard packed clay soil. Could you try the same test but hard pack the clay and then let it dry for a while to simulate real life ?

[@msemakweli133]

Agree. The whole thing will simply cake into one impermeable solid mass, with a pipe through it. I saw a video that was more convincing for longer-term viability. Just gravel, pipe then more gravel. No fabric or backfill. Fabric soon clogs up, making it ineffective. Or could put a piece of fabric on top of the top gravel, add a bit of backfill, then sod - if you want grass. Because the drainage is primarily from the bottom, this shouldn't be a big problem.

[@LaFox23]

Hard packed clay has the lowest permeability rate. You would need a large and deep french drain to dewater the soil.

[@zanepaxton7452]

So, no fabric then the clay’s silt fills up the drain rock. Then it works only very, VERY slowly and the silt starts filling up the pipe. To follow this logic, why bother with drain rock at all? Also, the pipe needs a minimum 2% slope to properly flush the silt out. So many of the drains on YT skip this important point. My conclusions so far are: 1. Use an appropriate fabric for clay soil to preserve the spaces in the drain rock as long as possible. Yes, it drains slower, but slow drainage is better than almost NO flow from being clogged up. 2. Minimum 2% slope on the pipe 3. Use catch basins to optimize surface collection and act double duty as clean outs (with silt collection sumps for maintenance access). Catch basin maximum spacing at 40’ on center. 4. Use bigger rounded drain rock like 1-1/2” 5. Use smooth schedule 40 PVC perforated pipe. 6. Consider running the drain rock to the surface (Less important if there are surface catch basins).

[@LaFox23]

This guy gets it

[@jerseyjim9092]

Maybe but I've never seen clay pour like sand. It's typically dense and water lays on top of it.

[@Keith_Mikell]

its like what they spin to make pottery.

[@anneann9127]

I think this would have been a better demo if the clay was compacted. This is very loose clay under and on top, not really what I'm dealing with.

[@tom4u2c]

I thought the fabric was about stopping dirt from filling the drain pipe

[@LaFox23]

Yeah in 5 years this french drain will have clay sediments at the bottom, which can buildup and clog. Using fabric will drastically slow that process of soil infiltration.

[@joeshmoe7789]

Don't go outside during the rain storm and expect to see water running unless the ground was recently saturated. Water has to make its way into the ground with this type of french drain before it drains water to its outfall. This is used to catch underground water before it can go against your house. The water is water you can't catch above ground. Could be from a neighboring property or underground stream. It is not used to collect roof, patio or driveway water unless you don't mind a large puddle sitting in your yard for a few days. Open top french drains collect surface water quickly and work like a surface drain and groundwater drain. They are a landscaping nightmare. Although it's more work and expensive, if you have water sitting on the surface, I would install surface drains, then give the ground enough time to thoroughly dry before determining whether to build a french drain. Always make sure your gutters and downspouts are clean and working properly and water is sent to an area where it can't run back before installing surface and french drains.

[@Valleyoftexas-43]

So no fabric?…… oh and I also heard that you’re not supposed to cover the pipe you put down with the clay soil you took out. I heard that you have to cover it with regular soil……. Is that correct?

[@frenchdrainscience1624]

Amazing what people are saying about a French Drain.. Check out Apple Drains.. Truly 30 years of Experience! Watch and learn just like this experiment.. crappy clay on top! Did not affect the drains performance

[@sun9912]

Yes

[@forced_youtube_handle]

If you’re doing this against your foundation, don’t backfill with the same clay. Backfill with something better draining, or consider backfilling with stone almost all the way to the top.

[@SlackerU]

That is a decent demo, too bad he/or-YT blocked me. He's still installing 4-inch-corrugated at less than a self-cleaning 2.8%-slope. I've got 200ft of dual-hole 10-inch FD & the intake maxes-out at less than a 2-inch pipe, it's pathetic & I must have Catch Basins.

[@waytospergtherebro]

Run that test for three years.

[@jp-pu7em]

Soooo...fabric, or no fabric? Heavy clay soil here in AZ.

[@briansimon1263]

no fabric

[@gous5649]

Technically both arguments are correct in certain ways. No fabric will equal better flow but over time risk of clogging due to clay drying or wet setting into the pipe perforations impeding flow through. Gravel will also become plugged up by clay particles to a degree and slow down flow, although it will still make its way down. Fabric will help prevent this but flow will be much slower and time dependant. Clay on top of the fabric acts like a barrier reducing flow drastically, however pipe perforations are better protected longer term. The problems shown here are with the fabric, idk if I missed it but is it geotextile, non-woven fabric? As that is the most suitable type to use. Also, adding clay back on top as your back fill is what is the main issue here causing the fabric to clog up how it is. When back filling in a clay soil trench system, use either gravel as high/close to the surface as you can with sod or top soil. Flow will be very substantial. Or, use gravel to the surface without soil on top. Backfill the wrapped trench like this and flow will be almost instant with good rate. Also ensure slope is correct at 1% or 1 inch for every 10 ft. This worked best for me and if you can install a catch basin either tied into the perforated pipe or a separate drain - that will take care of surface water in a real hurry as was shown here.

[@fixitwise7194]

Clay soil, no fabric?

[@WigglesTheDuck]

"This system works great." Your backyard, to scale, is only flooding like crazy while your pipe is emitting drops at a time, but hey, it *technically* works! No, this does not work great. It's slow and ineffective. No homeowner wants to invest so much effort just for a weak french drain system to emit what may as well be a gallon of water an hour. If anything this enforces the concept that is you don't want ANYTHING to impede the air voids created within the stone of a proper french drain system. You want as much air as possible to allow water to flow more quickly.