No future here? Living in rural Spain

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Күн бұрын

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@cheamericana 11 ай бұрын

We have just bought a house in ontinyent. They just built schools, a new hospital, renovating the town center and it’s surrounding by beautiful nature. We love it.

@martinrichardhorrocks9869 11 ай бұрын

You chose well! Within an hour of 2 international airports, 30 minutes from the nearest beach and very good infrastructure. Property prices are extremely good value. But Ontinyent is not empty Spain. Empty Spain is the 3 hours you drive through between Madrid and Almansa to get to Ontinyent

@ManjMau 11 ай бұрын

It bothers me to no end how restrictive Spain makes it for people to build and live in a homestead. I wish there was a sttonger push to encourage people to live in the country and small towns.

@pascal2955 11 ай бұрын

Stu touched on a brilliant subject. Depopulation and the effects on small towns. I say DO NOT WORRY. The agri-biz and scientist have been saying for the past 3 decades the importance to let the land, flora, fauna have time to rejuvenate. Humans have been over farming (ex: viticultor o vinatero) to the extent that we now need hydro carbons to produce fertilizers to nourish the plants due to depleted or even dead soils found on farms. hence the issues with the Netherlands, France etc.. farmers.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

I absolutely love the country, but...Please check out my comment and see why this is a serious problem.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

It's the problem of the ageing demographic. Hardly any young people are born into these villages which are quite remote too. The other problem, and it's a very big one, is there are literally no jobs in these places and if there are they will be very low paid. Young people move out and the old remain with the inevitable consequences.

@pbohearn 11 ай бұрын

This situation is certainly true of Portugal as well. A Couple of years ago I stayed at a recently converted bed-and-breakfast, located in a very small town, probably more than an hour from Evora in the Alentejo. Pretty much in the middle of nowhere, but close to some really interesting ancient burial mounds. The town had a church, and all of the residents, which amounted to less than probably 20, were elderly. It There was a very small store that a lady sold some basic items. The abodes of these elderly people had been without heat, and they washed their laundry in a common large pool. All of the young people had left, but these old people did not want to move. So the government built for them on this site new homes that had modern amenities but were also quite small and simple, so the people got to stay together in homes that were better equipped with the modern facilities like heat, and hot water, etc. They took the old abodes and they converted them into bed and breakfast villas, and then recruited a young couple from Lisbon to run the bed-and-breakfast. They took the old laundry pool and converted it into a nice new pool for the guests. the couple were going to get married and they decided to hold their wedding in the church in this town, and it would be the first wedding in probably over 20 years. In This situation I feel really glad that the government proactively, rather than make these old people move, invested in better homes, and found a way to start a business there, and keep these long-term neighbors together.

@123seanaway 11 ай бұрын

It's the same in Ireland but towns are fighting back by seeing themselves up as work hubs and offering a much better quality of life. I remember seeing derelict farms in the hills in Alicante.. Seemingly they were once provided by the government at low rent. Don't know if you've ever heard of them if seen them but government need to help to preserve these small towns.. They aren't buildings, they're communities..

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

It's the relentless demographic issue of ageing populations. Small towns and villages in Spain have very little interest for the handful of young people born into them.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

Spain has always found it difficult to populate these areas and it's a problem that goes back to medieval times. Once these lands were recaptured during the Christian reconquest they had to be resettled by civilians from the north of the country and that was always difficult and problematic. The people of Castile were also ravaged by episodes of plague which decimated the population as well as huge levels of emigration to seek a better life in the New World. There has never been enough people to fill out the land. I know the regions of Guadalajara and Soria well and outside of a handful of regional centres there's nothing except countryside. You can drive for miles and miles in empty space with hardly another car on the road before you come to a small hamlet or village with a tiny and ageing population. These places have no work whatsoever. You're either a farmer or you have to commute to one of the regional centres. They have no schools, shops, cash machines and no opportunity or anything likely to keep a young person happy. Some of these places might have had some interesting history like they were once an important centre for the wool trade or something like that. There's a place south of Soria called Moron de Almazan which has an incredible Plaza Mayor which is worth a detour to see but there is nothing else at all in that municipality today. The population is barely above two hundred people and just a handful of jobs. We all know Spain's population is in decline and ageing. I've driven through hamlets with populations below one hundred and folk look at me with interest as though I must be lost. All attempts by the Government to repopulate these places have failed. Digital nomads will not want to move to a place with nothing to do. South Americans that have tried to eke out an existence end up leaving to a city or going back home. Children born in to these places without schools dream of leaving. Even the children of the farmers don't want to work there. 'Spain Revealed' recently posted a great video about a grape farmer in La Mancha who has to employ Romanians to pick his grapes. The locals don't want to and his children are educated and don't want to farm. He will be the last of his family to do so. It isn't just Spain with this problem. The Italian interior is emptying for exactly the same reason. It's estimated that Japan has a million empty rural homes as young people poor into the cities. (Japan and Korea have an existential ageing population problem.) The cities are bursting and property prices rocketing. It's a modern phenomenon happening everywhere; well almost everywhere. The U.K. is so congested that we are packed virtually everywhere. We are easily the most congested country in Europe with Germany second which is HALF as congested. WT

@subcitizen2012 11 ай бұрын

Thank you for knowing your history, geography, and contemporary economic dynamics! There aren't many easy fixes to these dynamics. Personally, I think Spain has a potential leg up in the region vs places like UK, but whether opportunities can be made or taken remains to be seen. It seems a little obvious to me that places like UK with housing crises would benefit from immigrating to places like Spain. But to do that at scale with any sort of planning, or through some sort of international partnerships and coordination, seems impossible. UK wouldn't want to sign away it's own death warrant, but then again, they were willing to Brexit, maybe sending people away would make sense to them too. Historically, religious and ethnic expulsions have fueled advancements in other places. But it's difficult to know where things could go from here. Will Europe repeat history and expel the impoverished, the Muslims, a d Jews? Lol. Yikes. If they do, forward thinking places can take the opportunity and offer opportunity to immigrants. But that's a tall tall order, practically everywhere you go with similar problems, locals and nationalists don't want them and resent them.

@martinrichardhorrocks9869 11 ай бұрын

Very good assessment. There has been no future in most of these places for centuries, but particularly in the last 50 years the young have left to seek a better life. Who would do anything different? People who still live in the villages do so for a reason, usually that their living comes from the land. Life is fluid, places come and go. I don´t actually believe that modern Spain loses massively when an unsustainable village dies. There is always nostalgia for the past, but it should not be a prison either.

@bradbailey1893 11 ай бұрын

Spain is following UN policy like the rest of EU to concentrate development in urban areas. Their reasoning is public transportation and carbon emissions. Also political dependency and control. WEF is solidly behind this as well.

@pascal2955 11 ай бұрын

Hola, France is a good example to follow as In the next 10 years, 50% of all farmer in Fr will be retiring. The govt has already made plans to recapture a vast portion of these lands to allow the soils to rejuvenate. That is why you are already seeing the issues between the wine producers in France (which has been steadily decreasing) as opposed to the Spanish producers. Spain will need to follow the EU rules but it can only happen if they find adaptive solutions and not always reactive simply bc of political aspirations. IMHO.

@youngspiritsinging 11 ай бұрын

wow

@subcitizen2012 11 ай бұрын

Oh boy, more memes about the WEF and UN during election cycles. Being anti government and anti capital is anarchism. You'd feel right at home in Catalonia. Spain was party to the choices it's made. Dissolve their own sovereignty in your mind at their peril and yours. Spain's been centralized since 1469, and has been part of centralized government and economic systems since early antiquity. Would be a shame to break that legacy and let the country break up, regions go their own way, and shun the international community and international business to save a few olive farming backwaters, and ensure the metropolitan areas become global backwaters. Do you want them to have a future, or do you want them to only have an old glory? Best to drop the meme counter culture that wants the world to burn.

@bradbailey1893 11 ай бұрын

@@pascal2955Very little actual science behind these policies - pols keeping UN and WEF appeased.

@AndresCanive 11 ай бұрын

It seems to me one of the reasons rural towns are dying is because many are based on agriculture. Farming is very hard work and much of farming is moving almost completely to mechanization. The economics of farming favors these large mechanized farms which require more land, more investment and less people. Plus the prices of farm commodities make it difficult to support a family much less towns.

@RobertSmith-cv1cu 11 ай бұрын

We were parked in a car park in a village in the foothills of the Pyrennes a couple of days back. The school bus stopped. 1 youngster about 13/14 got out. It makes you think!

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

That's it Robert. I have a property in a village in Malaga an we now have one local shop opened for half a day most days and a pharmacy. That's it! One school bus a day. 2 km from the coast so it has advantages.

@RobertSmith-cv1cu 11 ай бұрын

@@moltderenou no idea

@joeterra.t 11 ай бұрын

@@moltderenouWhy does that matter? Oh wait, I know.

@felixtorres1895 11 ай бұрын

I love small towns if I could, I would move to a small town somewhere in Spain and enjoy Purlife.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

A small town in Spain has very little to offer. Unless you are part of the extended family you will always be an outsider. I love small towns too and I live in one but my wife is Spanish and we have integrated. Small town chat is just local crap most of the time.

@martinrichardhorrocks9869 11 ай бұрын

@@welshtoro3256 Agree. Good places to live for me are both attractive and have easy access to other places, If you have an enquiring mind, just staying in the village is not an option, no matter how pretty it is.

@suzannederringer1607 11 ай бұрын

Another reason for the emptying of towns is low birth rate...Definitely true in Italy. The small incentives the governments offer, can't overcome the fact that there's little infrastructure in these small towns.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

Totally agree. Check out my comment because I think you will agree.

@subcitizen2012 11 ай бұрын

Correct. The amount of changes to be implemented in the form of business once you've or direct public investment, and social changes, would be massive. It's difficult to incentivize people to have children for the prospects of dwindling opportunities. Italy is relatively ahead of Spain in demographic decline, but it's coming, and most Western countries will follow by 2050 or so. Local village politics aren't exactly keen on international businesses setting up shops and gentrifying everything, nor are they generally welcome of foreign immigrants. This is between a rock and a hard place, immovable objects vs unstoppable forces, these old ways of thinking die hard. It will be extremely difficult and costly for local and national governments to subsidize subsistence living or development. This is along the reasons why some places inevitably collapse into ruin. There has to be money and public will. In today's world and politics, there's none of that. It's too risky to incentivize young people to populate dying towns and industries, it's a lot easier and cheaper to let forgotten places stay that way and fall into ruin.

@pbohearn 11 ай бұрын

Please visit the extremadura if you want to see a province that has been ignored for decades. They actually have three really interesting, dynamic and tourist friendly cities, those being Caceres, Merida, and Badajoz, with ruins and architecture, going back to ancient Rome, the middle ages, and the Moors. In fact, Merida was the capital of the ancient Roman province of Lusitania. Try to get there the weekend that they celebrate Ancient Rome, and all of the locals are dressed in their togas and throw a great Festa. But even a smaller town like Zafra has a nice plaza and a quaint, walkable old town tho they feel completely left in the dust by the larger country as if they don’t exist. I was speaking with the hostess at a restaurant, who is actually a veterinarian but does this to help her brother, and she expressed that very sentiment. The food was delicious by the way.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

I love Extremadura. The entire place is like a National Park with great pockets as you describe. I have to mention Guadalupe to your list as well.

@remym6806 11 ай бұрын

Hi Stu, It is the same in rural Victoria where I was. With my work I traveled around all over the place, small towns are dying. Pubs, service stations, general stores which force locals to drive to larger towns for general things. after a while the get sick and tried of that and move to bigger places such as Bendigo,Ballarat,horsham,Stawell and so on. Great videos, keep up the good work.

@joseantoniodavila2752 11 ай бұрын

4:53 The mineral water that Font Vella sells comes out less than a kilometer from there to the east. Font Vella brand belongs to the multinational Danone. Not even a cent of that bussiness goes to the hands of any one living there.

@subcitizen2012 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Stu! Reflecting on dynamics I've seen a lot of in the US, it's a really difficult thing. Hypothetically, these places could be invested in and maintained in old glory as living museums, or updated and industries brought in etc. But there never seems to be enough money to go around, those are t always the things that the funds are prioritized on, whether public or private. Factoring the progression of technology and history, some of the towns in Spain still have homes and infrastructure from the golden age period. They were built for olive groves and goat herding, and life back when it was on foot and horseback. And when homes are still standing somehow after 200-400 years, sometimes even more, theyre often difficult sales, especially with the prospects. Not that those ancient industries would completely die out, but the towns in their former glory, that's a difficult thing to recapture. Rhetorically, people blame politicians, but are politicians not supposed to build roads and railways and implement industries with newer technologies? Would they blame the politicians if the primary industry was still goat herding and subsistence? The US has a similar dynamic with the highways that were installed in the 1950s, as well as the changes from industrial and agriculture and into communications tech and financialization. There are practical ghost towns just off the highways where the old rail system or even the old river transport system used to support, or never were supported in the first place. Detroit and other former industrial centers will likely never recover, then there's swaths of smaller cities and towns across the south and Midwest that will only longer on as far flung outskirts of major metropolitan areas that are either still holding on barely (Memphis) or doing relatively okay or even good. Booms and busts. California for example, it was built on literal and proverbial gold rushes. The peak of that era seems to be over. What will it be in 100 years or 200 years? Perhaps figuratively and perhaps literally underwater in a lot of places. California, as a former imperial possession of Spain, a prime example of what can happen when there are unimaginably massive political and economic changes over centuries. Similarly, the politicians can be "blamed," but the economy and political system was never set up or intended to maintain polities for the sake of it. A lot of the old infrastructures and ways of life prior to 1950, all the way back to post American civil war to 1860s, was literally built on top of and those eras more or less died out along with the people from those eras. Which is an ominous potential for the future if places like San Francisco go into a semi- terminal decline like Detroit since the tech businesses have gone global and supra national. It's no longer Bill Gates in a garage, herding electric sheep. And so we are building today the ruins of tomorrow. It's relatively natural and inevitable. Not that things can't be done. But they would need to be done. For Spain, I think and wish Spain could help resolve some of the housing crises of northern Europe and UK, even to some degree the US. It's difficult to uproot life and livelihoods and learn a new language and migrate, but imo Spain has huge untapped potential for it's relatively under utilized space and infrastructure and potential development. This trend is generally there already with UK expats for example. If more people knew how much general cost of living and quality of life could be upgraded from other parts of European declining industrial and agricultural centers, Spain I think is comfortably set up to at least continue to have passive immigration from all over. People would rather live in a dying Spanish town than a dying town in UK. If industry and governments ever make note of this and put the capital forth for local development and to entice international business to set up shop, a lot of juice could be returned for the squeeze, but that's sort of immense visionary planning and implementation. China did it - China over did it, let's be real. But western democracies and economies aren't exactly fit to implement such massive plans or international coordination. Would Spain take in boatloads of people from Ireland and UK and US to spur on part of this development? Doubtful, as the general politics of blaming politicians for demographic decline tend to be the same ones unfavorable towards immigration. But a lot can happen especially over time. Imo, Spain has a general leg up in potential over UK for example on a lot of metrics, but it also has a lot of problems as well that are similar. And a lot of Western countries, including the Americas, are going to be facing similar problems eventually, like demographic decline. As we are all declining, who makes the best public policies and appeals to businesses and opens the door to foreigners to ensure they're thriving well ibto the future? It's a difficult set of political compromises that most people and most countries aren't willing to make. But I'll tell you, the first countries or crops of countries that figure out the best social and business hybrid for the late 21st century, they will shoot ahead culturally and economically. Think of the Dutch golden age for example, tolerant and welcomed all, as places like Spain at the time exposed "others" and calcified in beiracracy and cultural stagnation and economic backwardation. (My relatively recent Spanish ancestors went west to the Caribbean and US for opportunities and electricity and flowing water and work, not sure they'd believe it if I could tell them 100 years later I'd be wanting to go to Spain from US). Netherlands and Belgium became a powerhouse that punched above its weight accepting outsiders shunned from other societies, which exploded into wealth, innovation, and productivity. Miracles can happen, but people need to believe in them and work towards them, including in their own mentality, especially as it relates to "social" policies and personal preferences. But that is an extremely tall order for today's polarized politics between maintaining the status quo and those that want to bring back the good old glory days of goat herding. As of now, there is no organic (nor artificial) Western cultural revolution on the horizon, and likely not in our lifetimes. The old ways need to die first, especially the old ways of thinking. That historical dynamic takes with it both the good and the bad.

@martindouglas9839 11 ай бұрын

Mil gracias por el video Stuart I think it's a domino effect it's like a shopping centre once you start losing shops more go like a set of teeth. In Sandakan Borneo at moment there is a nice tribute here to Australian serviceman here for WW2 .Here the death march started. Was at a jungle lodge other day and Sylv my wife nearly walked into a very big male orangutan. Amazing. Hasta pronto amigo

@onedaywewill 11 ай бұрын

My brother moved to Pinoso years ago. I went out there and it a great small town.

@spainspeaks 10 ай бұрын

That's awesome! It's great to hear that Pinoso is a great small town. I'll have to visit sometime!

@martinrichardhorrocks9869 11 ай бұрын

There´s confusion in my mind as to what is a "small town". In Spanish, "pueblo" is used for most places from 100 to 100000 inhabitants. For me, some of the places you have visited are mainly villages (I´m British; towns usually have a few thousnd inhabitants in the UK). Maybe Guadalajara is a state capital, but it´s still a pueblo to most Madrileños (who are connected to Guadalajara by HSTrain and autopista) because there is also a factor of attitude. The existential threat to "empty Spain" is not to towns, but to villages (populations of less than 1000 inhabitants?). And it is a process which has been happening for a very long time.Centuries in fact. Much of "empty Spain" is actually just empty (and not always attractive, lets be honest).....geographically and historically it has hosted very few inhabitants. It may be even fewer people these days, but they mainly have cars and transport facilities which make life in an "empty village" quite feasible. Whether you´d choose to live there or not is a different matter.

@felixtorres1895 11 ай бұрын

I would love a small farm maybe 10 acres nice little house three bedrooms couple bathrooms and just live a simple life. My heritage comes from Spain. I do have family there that I’ve never met. I would love to meet them and see where it is that I came from.

@amandaroberts5111 11 ай бұрын

Wow, you should go amigo

@bradyreed3457 11 ай бұрын

You didnt mention the Digital Nomad Visa. As you mentioned, some people want to LEAVE cities, and the DNV offers someone a chance to work remotely in a tranquil place. I wonder if any of these towns have sufficient internet access to support that?

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

I've commented on this many times. There would have to be hundreds of digital nomads wishing to move to villages which don't even have cash machines, restaurants or anything to do. The tiny populations will be old and have nothing in common with digital nomads.

@kl5631 11 ай бұрын

DNV not the answer really if you want people there long term and build a life. These visas are issued for 12 months and able to be renewed for a further 12 months only. Quite high eligibility thresholds as well in terms of evidenced earnings/tax returns/qualifications/experience etc. You cant earn more than 30% from Spanish contracts/work etc. It is quite a niche visa. What you may mean is being an employee of a company anywhere in the world where you can work remotely. That requires a Work Visa not a DNV.

@IanMossManchester 11 ай бұрын

Rural Granada has some interesting villages. Couple quite lively. Though could do with more investment, and I think a lot of these places would attract digital nomads after they have tried out the coast.

@martinrichardhorrocks9869 11 ай бұрын

But the digital nommad thing is like attracting flies. By nature, these are not going to solve long-term problems. And wealthy though they may be, how much money are they able to spend in a place where there is nothing on offer? Raising prices to profit from the short-term incomers will be price locals out of their comfort zones.

@IanMossManchester 11 ай бұрын

@@martinrichardhorrocks9869It's a chicken n egg thing. Bringing people doing more ambitious things, will rub of, and maybe spark education/collaboration. Equally those nomads sick of the big cities may actually want to get involved in some agriculture projects. Though I agree this is not the majority of nomads. A lot also don't even want to talk to anyone - do their work, sit in the sun for a bit, and then go on their way after a month or so. Having a path from DN to residency maybe a good idea. I think it's better than just attracting boomers, who maybe well off, but don't make any effort at all to integrate, nor want to spend much money as they know it has to last.

@yanassi 11 ай бұрын

Sounds like a plan, for an immigrant if they’re welcomed to benefit. Perhaps if the town would pay for regular medical bus/van visits for each of the medical needs.

@welshtoro3256 11 ай бұрын

There is literally nothing to do. No migrant will live in these places.

@subcitizen2012 11 ай бұрын

Immigration is one of the easier ways out of this. But then you look at the politics and no one wants foreigners for neighbors unless they're bringing wealth concentrations, and even then they gripe about them still.

@alexstewart8097 11 ай бұрын

Stu thanks for trying...but lucky if I have a future anywhere. Maybe a trip a la Santa Maria (Google its original name to SEE) but in reverse puts an end to an era...Shema!!!.

@subcitizen2012 11 ай бұрын

No future. I feel that. Almost everywhere it's a compromise or a fight between the status quo of a perpetual present and the ominous and ever gloried past.

@squarewoodworking7992 11 ай бұрын

Spain and Greece will always be the ‘poor’ EU countries without serious Political moves … I live here , the rich stay rich and the poor are always poorer

@martinrichardhorrocks9869 11 ай бұрын

Well that´s been the same everywhere in the last 50 or so years. Particularly since the trickle down economics launched in the late 1970s. However, I disagree about Spain being the "poor " EU country. The politics are best ignored, but I note that UK has a new Foreign Sectretary by dint of making a disgraced ex-PM a peer and parachuting him into the 3rd most important post in government. That´s real abuse of power, right there! I first worked in Spain in 1976 -78 and it was what you say. In my early 20s, I came from a UK which had political freedoms which were unimagined in Spain, had the best trains in Europe (affordable as well), modern motorways connecting major towns, educational and health services which were world class. And so on. Having lived in several other countries, including 20 years in the UK, I returned to live in Madrid in 2005. There was no comparison with 1976-78- And since 2005 I have seen year on year improvements in every type of infrastructure. I´m not saying this is paradise, but credit where it´s due. I spend about 20% of my time in the UK (and in quite different places, south coast resorts, midland rural spaces, industrial north of England)). I see a zombieland where the only thing which has changed is how much you have to pay for a house. Certainly since I moved away in 2005, I can´t see anything in the UK which has changed for the better.