No-Gi throwing VS Gi throwing: judo is the HARDEST skill in grappling

This video discusses the throwing techniques when performed with the jacket and without, and why judo as a skill is incredibly difficult.
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[@ThePimpedOutPlatypus]

I agree. I have trained Jiu Jitsu/BJJ and Muay Thai prior to adding Judo, and Judo has the steepest learning curve and slowest improvements by far. Judo is straight up hard AF to build skill in, but it is an incredible skillset so I keep working at it

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@RogrM6]

💯💯💯

[@brunovieira8432]

Excelent

[@Todo_fighting]

If you have good thai clinch and add judo you will be dangerous.

[@EthanNoble]

Yes lol I’ve been training it for years and it’s just now starting to make sense. Me

[@NickKano11]

The hardest thing about applying Judo throws isn't the lack of grips, it's the sweat. Once things get slippery, there's a lot more potential for things to go wrong, and timing becomes so much more important.

[@jordankozuch3436]

yes, but then it is hard to do any sort of a throw including double and single leg, arm drag it is just harder to wrestle at all.

[@NickKano11]

@@jordankozuch3436 I feel like doubles and singles are better suited to that scenario than a Seoi Nage (my go to). Too bad I suck at Doubles and Singles :(

[@jordankozuch3436]

@@NickKano11 seoi nage is hard in no gi... And when sweat comes impossible... Yea y

[@davidthewlis4911]

That pinch headlock is one of the easiest ways to kuzushi ive ever found. Its crazy that once you enter you dont really need to do much to hit a harai-goshi

[@StimmedPenguin]

Grip/hand fighting and kazushi are definitely the heart of Judo. Without good kazushi, the BJJ and wrestlers are right that giving up your back for a throw is dangerous, but when you know your kazushi is good, you know your throw is safe to execute and you will be in a dominant position afterwards.

[@pcprinciple3774]

Have you watched judo recently??? They frequently land in terrible positions with f-all control

[@StimmedPenguin]

@@pcprinciple3774 Yes sir and that’s when sport is detrimental to the martial art. Good sport Judo and good sport Jiu Jitsu aren’t necessarily good combat Judo and Jiu Jitsu. What’s the point of an Ippon if you’re not remaining standing, KO the opponent, or land in a superior position or a Jiu Jitsu player pulling guard and going for a leg lock only to get controlled from the top and get punched or soccer kicked? That said, grip/hand fighting and kazushi are still the heart of combat Judo and is still very applicable to combat of the MMA and self-defense variety much like how a good Nak Muay executes good kazushi to create opportunities for sweeps and knees in the clinch.

[@chrisprad8325]

I also agree. I’ve cross trained in wrestling and bjj. While I still don’t have much experience in either, Judo has been the hardest martial art for me to adjust to. I still try to train as much as I can in hopes that I can become a highly competent judoka one day.

[@josephruiz4163]

People act like we can't get grips on their hoodies or t-shirts.

[@radioface3306]

I am not a Judoka, but your videos are edifying for karateka. Also I am still laughing and saying “monkey pants” to myself…

[@mastermindmartialarts]

With the lack of mobility in my shoulders and elbows, I overhook (whizzer) grip most of my throws even in the gi, so it translates perfectly to me no gi. That's one issue I never had, transitioning my Judo throws to ni gi.

[@Chadi]

Awesome, make sure you do rear delts bands warm ups and strengthening and see kinesiologist perhaps

[@mastermindmartialarts]

@@Chadi I definitely do what I can to help them, but it's years of wear and tear that I don't think can be reversed unfortunately.

[@SoldierAndrew]

​@@mastermindmartialartsSame issues here as well.

[@martinlaser7819]

No Gi judo? Does this exist? Or is it an invention of Ishii I don't think he patents on this because if not everyone could copy his techniques the sport would be blocked. - I have heard that it is possible to let patent dancing steps. I don't no.

[@mastermindmartialarts]

@@SoldierAndrew which issues ? Shoulder and elbow mobility?

[@Soukinho]

C'est vrai, la distance et le grip du gi vs nogi fait toute la différence. Merci pour tes vidéos que je suis régulièrement ! PS : un pratiquant de jiu-jitsu et désormais de judo aussi 😉

[@Chadi]

Nickel ! Merci pour le support 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@moonrunrs]

I agree. I am 2nd degree black belt in BJJ and Sankyu in Judo. Many BJJ people do not know how to gi throw and only pull guard. Throwing with the gi is extremely difficult. I wrestled before too and many of the wrestling throws are easier. Greco Roman throws are like Judo and difficult to pull off. For both Judo and Greco you need to be extremely strong and explosive.

[@benjass377]

Hello Chadi, your videos are so incredible and interesting, you explain Judo as epistemology, my favorite Judo channel 100%. But for you, what are the limitations of Judo? seen from how it has evolved in history or deficiencies to be a complete martial art. Not to discredit of course but to see how it can be improved.

[@Chadi]

Just let them attack and defend the entire body, and more self defense drills like Kano wanted

[@feirabbitt]

I did goshen jujitsu and tomiki aikido. I am currently learning wrestling and bjj. Once you under stand over and under with the inside biceps ties and collar ties some of the throws come pretty easy

[@JukidoAcademy]

Another fantastic video!

[@JukidoAcademy]

First?

[@Chadi]

thank you and Yes

[@patrickamos5390]

Thank you! Chadi for another awesome video! Yes, I agree the variables increase with gi throwing. Slack in grips makes for delayed application of force and feedback, which can give uke/defender more advance warning and bigger window of response time. Being able to sustain grips (connection) can also help uke sustain defensive frames. At the same time the slack in the system can hide a build up of force by tori, such that by the time uke feels the trajectory... the trap is already set. Yoko makikomi can be a good example of this. In general, the greater range of connection with gi makes for a greater range/array of possibilities - and this comes and goes as abruptly as grips are established and broken. All in all there is just a lot more going on...

[@SoldierAndrew]

Very true. Kuzushi is much more difficult using gi grips than using overhooks & underhooks.

[@danielmontilla1197]

This must be part of the reason why the Gracies started to de-emphasize tachiwaza so strongly and ended up with a handful of bodylock takedowns by the early years of MMA and BJJ's exposure to the world. Just saw an old-school Rorion instructional and the biggest throw taught at the Gracie's at that time was a basic Ogoshi from the clinch. They did fine with just tackles and body folds, though 🤔

[@uwemaxjensen3028]

De krævede. at judokaer og brydere ikke stillede op i UFC.

[@JJDon5150]

No, honestly the reason why the Gracies de-emphasized tachiwaza was to give themselves and BJJ an advantage via ruleset. Several of the Gracies lost to or had draws with the Judoka's like Kimura and the Ono Brothers. And if you think back to UFC 1, the Gracie's also gave Royce an advantage by letting him wear the Gi, which helped him against the superior wrestler in Shamrock. The Gracies dem-emphasizing throws IMO was the worst thing that ever happened to BJJ because it watered down an essential part of the game.

[@marcelodiaz5006]

​@@JJDon5150here again the Gracie delevopment syndrome... First of all, a Judoka was in UFC 1, heavier than Royce... and he still lost. not forgetting Renzo knocking out Oleg taktarov in the ground, and putting Spijkers to sleep (yes, his sportmanship was trash, but is not the point). The reason why BJJ is now less focused on tachiwaza is other (is related to a prominent dojo in Brazil delevoping a Strategy for practical purposes against Judokas, other story), but nothing to do against "ruleset" (all the ruleset were "no points, just submission or KO). And honestly, is pretty pointless discusing about Helio, Kimura, Ono brothers and whatever, because they are just sand in the earth right now. The sport evolutionated a lot since then, it would be pretty great to have a recent example. Don't get me wrong, the Gracie family aren't saints of my devotion (and i love tachiwaza), but i simply don't understand the obsession of people that aren't that relevant anymore

[@JJDon5150]

@@marcelodiaz5006 @marcelodiaz5006 what Judoka was in UFC 1 because a quick glance of all the fighters show no one who was a judoka. Judoka entered the following UFCs, but not the first one. And Gracies absolutely did gear BJJ towards a favorable ruleset and what they knew. Just take a look at UFC 1 and the fact that Royce was able to wear a gi. Without a gi, Royce would have probably lost to Shamrock like he did to Matt Hughes. Obviously others could wear clothing too, but the ones who did had no sense of ground fighting as it wasn't their speciality.

[@Mamluk8989]

I agree I think wrestling is the most instinctual and throws are the hardest

[@throwzilla]

Why is it that during uchi komi, the hikite is pulled high but during randori almost everyone pulls low ? Shouldn't we practice like we throw ?

[@Chadi]

Not always, but the basic form is for learning only, to see the desired effects, and tilted opponent on their toes

[@user-ud9kw5ym4x]

Nage no kata -Sutemi waza Ma sutemi waza 1)Gi-throwing : Tomoe nage 2)No-Gi throwing : ,Ura nage 3)No-Grip throwing : Sumi gaeshi, Yoko sutemi waza 1)Gi-throwing : Yoko gake 2)No-Gi throwing : Yoko guruma 3)No-Grip throwing : Uki waza

[@jordankozuch3436]

From my experience as an weak judoka trying to throw bjj guys in no gi, it is easy to get over/under hook, collar grip but almost impossible to get grip on a wrist. It easy to score O soto gari but more in Ono style than standard, even without wrist grip, easy to ouchi gari, easy to outside trip (dont remember judo name), easy to get de ashi or kouchi gari, easy to get harai goshi. It is harder with uchi mata, but my uchi mata in judo was also weak so maybe this is why. kouchi ouchi or reverse are good in nog gi also. But bjj quickly adapt to you if they understand you are "judoka" and then it is harder to throw them.

[@jesselowe9374]

I agree with this video. I also feel like that's the reason that so many BJJers turn to wrestling for their stand up because it has a shorter learning curve. The kazushi in wrestling a lot of times if a forward and backward, if I'm not mistaken, along with other details mentioned in this video.

[@twinsunpredator7998]

it's to get in the trouble chadi used to be a judo kid now im a bjj guys 40 , 6 years in , i want my judo back , im master at o ghoshi but to get in , it is so hard people are not stand up straight like judo , they more have a drop wrestling base, to get in to get o goshi is so difficult

[@user-pq3le3tu1s]

شكرا على المحتوى المفيد. أضف لنا سلسلة الجودو في الشارع (مقاطع واقعية) لكي نزداد خبرة💙

[@Alexsnakedoc]

I agree with you btw, no gi has also been alot easier for me to throw then in the gi, because of being able to get closer and easier to handfight in no gi aswell in my opinion

[@slavicvolk]

4:04 underhook and pinch headlock uchimata

[@wendellbenedict4793]

Can you do a video on breakfalls? I saw a show that I can't remember where two guys go around training in different arts. When they went to Japan if memory serves me well oneof them trained at a Judo dojo and the other one trained in a traditional Jiu Jitsu dojo. One thing I do remember is that the guy that trained in the Jiu Jitsu mentioned that the breakfalls were taught somewhat differently. I might be wrong but I believe that the Sensei taught the breakfalls without a slap. BTW I'm not talking about a roll but an actual breakfall. I could be wrong but I want to think he did some while using the bottom of the feet to land which I myself have done when taking a fall with both arms being held.

[@jesselowe9374]

There are two shows that I'm thinking of, Human Weapon and Fight Quest.

[@wendellbenedict4793]

@@jesselowe9374 thanks. It could be either one since it's been so long ago.

[@Jesse-qk6wn]

Would you say ouchi gari, kouchi gari, and osoto gari is smoother and easier in nogi as well?

[@MizanQistina]

In my experience, i ripped off a guy shirt when fighting with him, doing clawing so much, well "tiger style" 😁. So I think your gi throwing really depends on your opponent shirt material to work. Of course Judo gi is made to withstand such stress but common shirt are fragile, so easy to torn apart when you grab and force it around making your technique not effective at all. Imagine you grab in an attempt to throw but instead only end up getting off your opponent shirt 😆

[@vids595]

We once bought packs of white t shirts and attempted naga waza and gi chokes with them. Not very viable.

[@lambosnicko]

Depends where you live. Throws can done without grabbing. That being said its cold where i live so people wear thick jackets that are perfect for throwing and choking.

[@Chadi]

You can throw a shirtless person with over and underhook

[@martiallife4136]

​@@ChadiIppon seoi nage, ogoshi, harai goshi, kuchiki daoshi, morote gari, kata guruma, koshi guruma just to name some that can be and are done without the jacket.

[@MizanQistina]

Well, jacket isn't popular in my country, only motorcyclists wear them and we wear them backward. It is a confusing phenomenon to tourists and foreigners, they even making videos to talk about it. 😂 We wear jacket like this --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4nceqt5hsuWiac

[@keropnw3425]

I think nogi is more strength dependant and more slippery. If you get no gi holds its harder and more strength reliant to keep them, in gi its easier to apply speed and skill, and be much more locked in once you get grips. But actually mastering judo throws takes a ton of skill because of tbe distance exactly like you said.

[@MisterLinner85]

❤

[@marconopolo5723]

Chadi where is the ronin theme?

[@fabioronci8348]

At minute 3.35 the move seems more like a hane goshi than an uchi mata as you say in the comment

[@TimothyGrabarczyk]

What about back takes when exposing the back without a gi to hold on to? Just curious? I am just a beginner in BJJ who did Judo a long time a guy when I was a kid.

[@danielmontilla1197]

You can't take the back if the other guy has an underhook or a whizzer on you.

[@TimothyGrabarczyk]

@@danielmontilla1197 Yeah, that's why uchi mata is so popular. But certain throws are risky like seoei nage.

[@danielmontilla1197]

@@TimothyGrabarczyk All throws and takedowns are risky if done wrong. The key is the setup, if you don't setup properly a double leg and just blast, you might end up sprawled upon. Same with Seoi, if you don't "sneak" the throw, or if you try to muscle down the other guy instead of being explosive and sudden, you'll get your back taken.

[@TimothyGrabarczyk]

Not all have equal risk. But the point here is that you a gi will give you more control of someone behind you. It's a common opinion, whereas I simply have no personal experience, that certain throws are just too risky in nogi submission grappling. @@danielmontilla1197

[@user-pq3le3tu1s]

الجودو هو الأفضل في الدفاع عن النفس

[@Chadi]

100%

[@stefangurguriev1047]

Hey Chadi, I enjoy your videos and usually agree with you, but I have to disagree on this one. The gi actually gives you more leverage and the ability to hoist and disbalace your opponent by pulling them, which you do not have nogi, trips are also easier. I‘ve always found the fireman’s carry easier with the gi than without. My experience: circa 2 yr judo, 8 years bjj(purple belt)/ catch, been focusing mainly on the wrestling

[@Chadi]

Fair enough!

[@7-_Kh]

Джейсон Моррис дал давно ответы по этой теме.😊

[@Alexsnakedoc]

Chadi can you try sparring against a freestyle wrestler and make a video with your views on that

[@josephbreza-grappling9459]

Throwing BJJ people without a Gi is easier than Judo because their stand up skills are terrible…try walking into a wrestling room and see how far you get. I was a Division 1 wrestler. There’s a reason at 44 years old that I don’t walk into the University of Michigan’s wrestling room and wrestle anymore. I wrestle with BJJ guys because it’s easy as fuck. I have to work harder for takedowns in a highschool wrestling room against children than I do against grown men in BJJ. Unless they have wrestling experience then it’s different. So, I wouldn’t conclude throws are easier without the Gi. It’s that the people you are throwing have no clue what you are doing

[@KingOfSwords720]

There is a reason Judo has so many levels of application. Olympic, sport, self defense, combat. Many people don't know Judo techniques were taught to US military before they fought Japan in WW2.

[@vids595]

It is WAY easier to throw people when they are wearing a jacket. There are so many more options. This is insanity. You do not have be far apart to use gi grips. As in the uchi mata example where he still grabs the gi.

[@vids595]

Underhooks and overhooks still work with a jacket and can be made extra sure by also grabbing the material, and t-shirts are not equivalent to a jacket, so if you had to only learn one for self defense (you dont) maybe no gi judo or wrestling would be better, but we do not have to learn only one.

[@Chadi]

It’s not insanity, understanding kuzushi you would know that a lapel grip is harder to unbalance someone than an overhook.

[@TheDevourerOfPancake]

​@@Chadiagree collar and lapel grip are harder to throw with than over and under hooks, but you are comparing long distance ties to short distance ties. Throwing with a georgian grip is more powerful than anything in no gi grappling.

[@patrickamos5390]

These are good points. Worth discerning between getting the grips/hooks in the first place... and what you can do with them once established. Establishing a Georgian grip down the back in a savvy judoka no easy feat. I think Chadi's point is what is possible once you have the grips/hooks@@TheDevourerOfPancake

[@ubcroel4022]

High-level Judo is why the Dagestanis do good. They train in Combat/Sport Sambo, Judo and freestyle wrestling since 3-5.

[@judofloriana]

also super wrestling champions as Saitiev brothers, used just judo to throw lot of times their opponents, their style was a lot more upright and they used just judo throws

[@skyedog24]

It's always a good idea to take a couple of anti-inflammatories before you start throwing such as Advil 👍

[@Chadi]

I usually feel fine

[@navnnavn1226]

Inflammation is part of your body's healing process, I'd rather recommend training softer

[@cipmaster1]

I'll have to disagree on this. Getting underhooks in no gi is quite difficult in the first place if the other person know what they are doing, and even if you get grips on the wrist or the collar tie, they are so much more loose than a strong Gi grip.

[@JoriMikke78]

If you don't understand the benefits of pulling guard then you really don't understand anything about grapling. The reason it works so well has nothing to with learning takedowns and knowing/not knowing them. If you have dangerous guard, then it might be the best and smartest move to do - and if not, then you should do so. Turning your back isn't a great move in self defence or in real fighting, but pulling guard can be.

[@JoriMikke78]

No it isn't. Wrestling is much, much harder physically and BJJ is harder technically - there is also so much more to learn in BJJ, since the number of techniques is so much larger. Judo is hard too but that is also the reason why modern MMA doesn't include it at all. You have to train years of it and there are just so many more effective styles to learn that are far more useful in the ring/octagon.

[@atshabal]

Did you ever train judo ?

[@mygfishotterthenurs]

Yeah nage waza is a different flow from ne waza the objective changes and the rules and physics have shifted a little gravity plays different cause now one guys on his back and not his feet it’s like 2 grappling skills but one can’t work in the other because the rules are at different play and judo is the hardest one to understand I still have trouble trying to understand the physics of it. we’re at bjj is a bit more easier to understand