No more rage mode - come learn how! (7 Days to Die: Alpha 20)

[@DH4Doose]

Pancake, you are one of those people that spend incredible amounts of time testing and editing so others can just watch and play. Thank you for all you do and please keep up the good work. Your info is fantastic and has helped me a lot.💯

[@CautiousPancake]

Wow, you're welcome and thanks to you too - it's comments like these that give me motivation to keep making videos!!

[@paragonthemortalddosurvivo6788]

Great info! I had a melee base with a tall pit drop. The zeds pathed along side the base and the players would knock them into the pit with bats and sledges. This explains why they pathed so well even with 300% damage during Blood Moon. Never knew why it worked, so thank you for figuring this out!

[@CautiousPancake]

Yeah - it was the inconsistency in why some bases did so much better than others that was bugging me :)

[@tdunbar6148]

another useful and easy to follow video. thank you for all your efforts.

[@CautiousPancake]

You're very welcome!

[@futuristicbus61]

2:01 this had me laughing hysterically god the zombie ai is so funny. Also great video man! I’ve never really tried making a full on horde base, so having something to help deal with rage mode is super helpful

[@CautiousPancake]

Thanks mate, glad you found this fun and useful!

[@martinlayne5612]

Hey I tried your unclimbable ladder and it worked. Thanks for the tip

[@CautiousPancake]

Great to hear - thanks!

[@donpfoutz625]

This doesn't limit Zeds rage mode, but a neat circumvention is to place random pillars about. Zeds do NOT attack base structures, but ANY nearby structure. I have used these (I call them Akula's Asparagus. 😄). They are only wood or at most cobble and only 2 tall.

[@CautiousPancake]

Ah yes, sacrificial blocks will certainly mitigate - I should have put that in with the water and electric fences section! Thanks!

[@shadowace940]

This was way too entertaining to watch. Probably shouldn't have started it so late lol. Also, amazing idea for a base. I love it

[@CautiousPancake]

Thanks for the feedback - hope you got some sleep :D

[@The_fusion_physics_guy]

Great testing, finally feel like I understand rage mode, it makes sense that it would be coded to be sensitive to player location so random zombies aren't raging all over the map on their way to you and wasting spawning resources! Good game design, but also good exploit =D

[@CautiousPancake]

Thanks and you're spot on - I've been half expecting they change it from time to time, just to mess with us, but so far it's the same.

[@jdszombieremovalservice2394]

Great video! I always thought it was because at 11 blocks the fall usually causes damage to the Z, so they don't go into rage mode. Adding the 11th block and stepping onto it, and the Z only falling 10 blocks kind of messed up my theory. lol

[@CautiousPancake]

Hehe don't you hate it when something breaks a good theory! :) There could be gaps in mine too that I'm not seeing!

[@jdszombieremovalservice2394]

@@CautiousPancake I guess I should test my theories in the future.🤔

[@4bluekitty]

This is like a Maplestory jump quest. The rage is justified imo xD

[@CautiousPancake]

lol

[@viniciuspessoa8628]

Really well explained!

[@CautiousPancake]

Thankyou!

[@tigrecito48]

i found a really simple base idea to make them keep going around in circles that involves just using a staircase in a poi... it works 98% of the time and they do rage but it doesnt matter cos u used hardly any resources... what you do is stand on the landing of a staircase (where they have no other way to get to you) cut away one set of stairs below you only... put a wooden/cobble fence up in front of you, the railings.. it has to be one they can attack u thru... make the railing one high on one side and 2-3 high on the other side... it has to be open above that so they can see it as a valid place to jump... when u stand right up against the railing they try to jump & hit you... all u have to do is slightly step back and move forward again.. if u dont time it right u might get hit.. and also one time the whole horde night i tried it, one zombie did get up and into my landing but every single other zombie fell down the hole and had to run back around to the stairs.. - time taken - enough to cut 2 concrete stairs out... resources used - enough to make 4-5 railings - all night i took only a few hits from not going back quick enough.. almost no damage taken to the poi

[@CautiousPancake]

Nice Kevin - that sounds very effective!

[@donnikubbitz2146]

"Incidents" or "Instances". JS. Heh Merry Christmas and thanks for the vid/info!!

[@CautiousPancake]

Hehe - yeah I tried to patch that out but re-recording that bit sounded too different to the rest, so ... yay we get a new word this week :)

[@shkotayd9749]

I had wondered about distance and rage. I have a 10 block high base, a standard ramp up and a couple side ladders and a thin path right to me, and a zombie drop pit thats 6 deep right below and electric traps at the bottom of the pit. I HAD been noticing that block attacks basically hadnt been happening since I moved to that base, and I hadnt been able to figure out why. Well, there we go I guess.

[@CautiousPancake]

Electric trap damage can also reset rage mode from what I've seen/read - so that's doubly helping! and if they exit your pit away from you that should keep them outside 11 block range, so sounds like you built a pretty good design!

[@infectedgaming4619]

I just build a platform filled with blocks since they're so easy to make; can even make them 8-10 deep. I leave a clear pathway for them to get to me and upgrade the blocks they're most likely to hit. Always works. Besides a demo or cop explosion, hardly ever have a missing block.

[@CautiousPancake]

Nice - and you're right there's something to be said for "simpler" bases - much less to go wrong!

[@infectedgaming4619]

@@CautiousPancake your bases are far more interesting lol

[@filypefx]

I tried a 5x5 2 block "deep" pool, almost 2 days hauling buckets of water to fill it up, and they get rage mode pretty easy, even giving ramps to get out, so try to get a body of water and do your base there.

[@CautiousPancake]

Yeah with the new water physics from A21, filling even that size area with water is not fun!

[@andrejchalas6799]

I always loved the swimming pool prevention of rage mode. The problem was that zombie loot bags and explosions destroyed water blocks and its such a hassle to replace water blocks so far. I hope they somehow change it. If they didnt since I stopped using water as rage mode prevention in alpha19

[@CautiousPancake]

As always these things are a bit personal preference, but my dislike for water pits was that a zombie landing on another zombies head still caused rage mode, so you had to go really large with the pool and deep. The greater than 11 blocks rule I found for a20 just stopped everything, and still works for most rage in a21. But like I said, that doesn't make water any worse, just different!

[@joshuacoleman6245]

Ty vm!

[@CautiousPancake]

You're welcome 🙂

[@DH-zm4lh]

Top notch as always

[@CautiousPancake]

Thanks!

[@stevedixon921]

I have a 'favorite' base design I make and I have noticed a problem with zeds gathering below me and hitting the wall, the first one blocks the path for the others so eventually several all rage for about ten seconds (or more) causing significant damage in the process. I had to build 'peekers' above them to shoot them out of rage mode when I run out of targets up top. This was without them running past to the ramp in front of me on the first pass (as in they spawned behind or to the sides and just raged once they got close). I was considering installing blade traps to the sides to reduce the problem, but those can fail fast. I stumbled upon the 6000ft path video which lead me here. I now think the proximity rage mode thing is my issue. I will redesign my base with a 12 block high fighting position and see if the issue resolves itself, though it will more than double my resource requirements (its already about 700 blocks for a 6 high and 16x16 foundation). My base does not exploit falling mechanics, it is essentially just a big ramp straight to me with electric posts to stun lock them while I work on head shots (zeds will fall off regardless because it uses jumping stairs to slow them down a bit, I use a double wide path for this reason). Unrelated Question: will cops running along a path away from the player stop and turn around to spit at the player? In theory they have their back to the player and thus should not 'see' the player until they turn around at the end, though I suspect they will stop and spit regardless (ie 360 degree sighting). For testing: a 12 block high fighting position with a ramp leading away from the player to the same elevation, then it goes 30+ blocks away and then loops back, full line of sight in front of the player but solid walls on all other sides. In theory the cops would run away from the player and not spit until the return leg when they are facing the player. If by a miracle it does work you could make a cowards base and shoot the zeds in the back all night long (and safe demo hunting as a bonus).

[@CautiousPancake]

Hi Steve - thanks for following the vids through to the source! It does sound like the rage mode is getting you - let me know if moving things up higher doesn't fix it! On the cops - I seem to recall from one of JaWoodle's videos that the cops will still stop and spit while crawling, but I can't recall if they do it while running away - I don't think so, but I'll have to give it a look!

[@stevedixon921]

@@CautiousPancake New base is 12+ tall now (vertigo!). Far less damage and almost no signs of them stalling and raging beneath me. Not that my old design was at risk of falling, but at least I don't have to keep an eye on it. Cheers.

[@CautiousPancake]

@@stevedixon921 Awesome, thanks for confirming!

[@cageykc]

Necroing this comment to add: I just built a version of the "Coward's Base" almost exactly as you describe (before reading your description) thinking it would prevent spit and be great for Demo management. Unfortunately, I am also within the magic range to trigger spit just as they hit the top of the ramp and therefore gain "sight" of me - despite the fact the are facing away. So I'll tentatively confirm the Coward's Base still struggles with cop spit due to 360 degree vision. I think with a smart redesign I can -probably- fix it so the Coward's Base is viable.

[@stevedixon921]

@@cageykc Cop line of sight is broken as they will almost always spit from any direction if you are not virtually boxed in with FULL blocks. Example: in a solid walled room with bars overhead, they can still 'see' you. I compensated for this by adding ablative blocks to my bases (simply: blocks placed to take the hits). That said, I've yet to have my bases compromised by spit alone, but I also cannot run with 64 zeds, so...YMMV.

[@tigrecito48]

9:04 the problem i see with this base is, from what other youtubers have said, zombies dont like pathing up and down in one path - which is why they wont climb down into your underground base from the wrong entrance if u stand far enough away and they have another path and u place a one block going up before that entrance. but i guess its ok on this because its the only path available? if u put a second longer path in but didnt have an up & down to it, would they choose that instead?

[@CautiousPancake]

Yeah, I've heard that too - mostly in the context of a pit base where you want to protect the "easy" entrance by making it higher than ground level. It's not something that I've tested extensively - I had a bit of a play - but as you can see from this base, a bit of up then down is ok, if it's all within an elevated platform. I think if I put in a second longer path, that was all flat, they would still take the shorter path with the up and down. Will see if I get time to test that later and let you know.

[@tigrecito48]

talking of rage mode and zombies attacking blocks.. i had a weird bug recently where i fell thru blocks after they made my column collapse.. and it put my character into 3rd person view... the only way i could get out of it is dying and respawning

[@CautiousPancake]

That's a weird one! Maybe try going into debug mode and hit F5 if it happens again?

[@crazymontanakid]

Audio sounds great! Did you end up getting a new mic? Great info as always

[@CautiousPancake]

Thanks and yes - and massive thanks for the helping hand toward it - I think it sounds much better, but I'm still getting used to it!

[@crazymontanakid]

@@CautiousPancake Of course man, very welcome. Already sounds miles better and I'm sure it'll only improve as you mess with settings

[@TheEpicSpire]

oh, so it's not actually how far they fall, it is how far away from you they are when they hit the ground?

[@CautiousPancake]

Yes pretty much! But also not just when they hit the ground - but keeping them that far away. Imagine a ball with you at the middle - keeping the zombies outside that ball of 11 blocks in any direction. If they come up a ladder 5 blocks away, they'll rage then (not every time, but often). There's a minimum distance that rage will kick in, but I think it's 3 blocks from memory, so even small falls can cause it.

[@nunya2400]

How did you make the box they fall through? I have used other methods but couldn't get enough angels on this video to replicate this one. Wouldn't mind giving it a go.

[@CautiousPancake]

For the box they fall through check out @JaWoodle 's video kzbin.info/www/bejne/fau1Y5ulpK6Ur8U - the build starts at 11:12. Note that that version got nerfed straight after - so he put out this video after as well kzbin.info/www/bejne/naTQqp9smZ18eZY, but that second video is more about the pathing the original video does the build.

[@nunya2400]

@@CautiousPancake Thank you and Merry Christmas

[@CautiousPancake]

@@nunya2400 Merry Christmas to you too!

[@FurlowT]

The AI is kind of confusing me. Was there some update to it? I've been seeing them go into destroy area with absolutely nothing. Just randomly run up and start attacking things when aren't even aggroed.

[@CautiousPancake]

I don't think they do that - but I could be wrong - I'm still trying to figure out a lot of the real detail. From what I understand though they need to have gone into a fall or stumble to have a chance to go rage mode. They might also go up and hit stuff if they think the path is blocked - I've seen that happen in weird spots, and it can look like rage mode, but it's slightly different.

[@erasalams61]

They do that when they dont have a pathing to u avaiable

[@scrapcraftyt]

I want to animate something on this and I will

[@Nyruami]

You don´t need to watch the whole 15 minutes of this video, the answer is, you need to be away from zombies by more than 11 blocks. So if you build your base 11 blocks high and let the zombies drop to the ground you will have an AFK base as they will just run up to the dropper again, without ever switching into rage mode. This video could have been done in 15 seconds

[@CautiousPancake]

Yeah, but if I'd said it like that originally, no one would have believed me :)

[@erasalams61]

Is there a range of which they need to fall to go into rage, like 4 blocks or 3 or what? In theory i could make sheaves of hay and they shouldnt go into rage right?

[@CautiousPancake]

yeah - it's about that 3 or 4 when the chance kicks in. Although since A21 you also can get some weird behaviors just when they run in and go straight into rage mode. I'm pretty sure hay has been tested and it's helpful but not preventative. Same with dropping them into water. They both work a bit, but nothing works as well as keeping them beyond 12 until you're ready to bring them in.

[@bobbytherookie4341]

Great Video! Any updates for A21? Trying to debug why I have raging zombies in my 40 block tower base.

[@CautiousPancake]

I tested in the b313 and it was fine, worked the same as A20 as far as I could see. Depending on where they are raging it could be a few things (sorry if this is obvious) either they are unable to get to you - if no valid path they will do rage mode. If they are getting stuck on a block that sticks out or isn't a "smooth" path they will get annoyed at it and rage a bit, or if they are fine for most of the tower, but then once they get within the 11 blocks they will rage at the top - that is expected - even though the timer for the original rage mode has stopped, they do seem to remember it and go into rage mode as soon as they get near you.

[@bobbytherookie4341]

@@CautiousPancake Thanks for the reply! They were getting bunched up on the rails i put on corners to help them not fall. Removing those helped. I raised the top another 15 blocks, but they still seem to rage when they get within ~11 block of me. I was hoping the added height would run out the rage timer, but I guess it doesn't work like that. I do think they are raging less at the top. Adding some traps is probably my best bet now. Thanks again!

[@CautiousPancake]

@@bobbytherookie4341 Hey Bobby - sounds like you've got most of it sorted. One thing I don't think I explained well in this video was the rage timer, and I agree with you - it doesn't expire when the timer expires. If they get to within 11 blocks even after the timer has expired, they will rage at that point, so it becomes a game of "keep away" or if you want to bring them in close, have enough non-structural blocks for them to rage on once they do get near you! Traps will also work to knock them out of rage, so that's perfect as well! Great work!

[@paragonthemortalddosurvivo6788]

Hey, C.P., You have some of the best videos for 7DTD fans! Why do you have less than 3k subs?? Gotta get you some clickbait or something so you can get paid to do such good work!

[@CautiousPancake]

Thanks Paragon! I'm doing my best (and I thought this one was pretty click-baity!) lol - maybe I have to be more crazy with the thumbnails :)

[@aMcCallum12]

Can you tell me what blocks youre using at the end of this build to make the zombies just walk off the edge and fall?

[@CautiousPancake]

Hey - for this one I used a modified build from one of @JaWoodle 's, so rather than just give you the name of the blocks, here's the build guide for this sort of base: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fau1Y5ulpK6Ur8U - the build starts at 11:12.

[@TheBigfoot425]

What about the hole you had the bottom of the original base sitting in? When the zombies fall they don't land in the hole and chose to run to you instead of running into the hole to rage mode.

[@CautiousPancake]

He Bigfoot - In the original base - the pit was intended to help stop the rage mode. It didn't end up doing that but what it does do still is provide a clean path for the zombies - so they don't come in from the wrong angle and get stuck behind the ramp up. Zombies can still bash on a path if they get blocked, or caught on a partial block that sticks out - even if they aren't in rage mode. I found that out (in a bad way) when testing the Wizard Tower build I did - without the pit underneath the zombies got stuck a lot and smashed on the lower blocks of the path. If that makes sense?

[@TheBigfoot425]

@@CautiousPancake gotcha, thankyou. I would have guessed thay was the reason bit I guess not

[@CautiousPancake]

@@TheBigfoot425 no worries!

[@tigrecito48]

hey can you give me advice how to get a specific map loaded in? someone told me the map they used was called "west vopala valley" i dunno if thats the name that comes up in the names u cant change or the one i type into the random gen bit.. i loaded it in.. doesnt SEEM to be the same map.. but another problem i have is i cant work out how to teleport to where i want on the debug mode... when i look at map location it shows one set of figures like n w but it only lets me type in s e numbers... it seems to put me at seemingly random locations.. i was trying to get to specific location to start my playthru the same as another youtuber did

[@CautiousPancake]

You'll need to use the same seed value rather than just trying the same name I think? Not 100% sure though sorry. Teleport just check that you're looking at the player location not the cursor, and that S and W values are negative, N and E are positive.

[@tigrecito48]

@@CautiousPancake so it doesnt send you to an exact location, but a certain distance in each direction?

[@CautiousPancake]

@@tigrecito48 should be sending you to an exact location - e.g. teleport 100 -300 should always be to the same spot.

[@tigrecito48]

@@CautiousPancake yeah but it doesnt seem to send me to the map location with those numbers.. its like ive been given n w coords and it sends me to s e coords or something.. when i look at the map and say i want to go this location it says 2600, 4000 i type that in and it sends me somewhere else

[@CautiousPancake]

@@tigrecito48 weird! the only other thing to check is that you're doing E/W first, then N/S second so teleport 100 -300 is 100E and 300S

[@pipboythreek]

Will a zed go into rage mode just because? I mean what causes rage mode? If he doesn’t take any fall damage will be still rage?

[@CautiousPancake]

Zombies (have a chance to) go into rage mode either when they can't get to you or when they fall from a height of 3 blocks or more I think it is. EDIT to clarify - they don't have to take fall damage to go into rage - fall damage starts at about 11 blocks.

[@ziodona5634]

@@CautiousPancake doesn't this means that istead of going up higher, we could build lower structures to avoid them triggering rage by falling and avoiding it completly? Also cannot the lower jump be combined with water to totally stop the rage by adding both time to reach the jump again and a safe landing to zeds? I'm new to the game and searching for an horde base that will last long/endlessly without the need of eletrical stuff or turrets (well maby the roof for birds will have a couple turrets later on), i just need the base to buy me and my team mate a ton of time for her to actually have fun killing from range while zeds loop around (knowing her aim/coordination is terrible cos she has an hard time moving the right hand precisely due to health problems). Thanks for any hint in advance!

[@CautiousPancake]

@@ziodona5634 A couple of thoughts that might help. First on the low bases, it's a good question. I think it would be possible to do a rage minimal one with a low path - say 2 blocks high, on the condition that there's still a separation from the fighting platform and the path of the 11 blocks. You could do water underneath if you want, but I generally feel it's more effort to get that working than to build up, but if you're comfortable with water builds then go for it. In terms of a simple but effective endless base without electrical traps, I'd suggest either the design I used in the screamer farming video, or even one from my latest 6000ft horde base - although you wouldn't have to do the full length build. The idea of both is that there's a permanent loop with no rage mode until the zombies are walking to you in the combat area, where you can shoot them to interrupt any rage. Let me know if that works, or if not reply back and we can work on a different design!

[@ziodona5634]

@@CautiousPancake the one used in the screamer farming seems adaptable to other builds, or even rebuildable with a bit of farm, ima try that out rebuilding it, probably on top of a water source with slanted slopes (we got it pregenerated in our proximity), also we survived the first week but the zombies were unhappy to climb the path we made and istead decided to just try wiping the base, i realyze now that it might have been my fault for using the same grade on the fence and on the base so we had to molotov them down to avoid the base crumbling....guess next fence will be done with lower materials or wider to avoid the pathing issue we had the first week. Thankyou for ur help!

[@CautiousPancake]

@@ziodona5634 You're welcome - fingers crossed for you for the next horde!

[@zynjnn277]

Hay Yaa'z .... Do Yaa'z have a Patron Account?

[@CautiousPancake]

I don't sorry zynjnn, until I get to the point that I'm sure I can put out videos on a schedule I don't feel right about patreon - my work sometimes means that I don't get enough time to get videos done. I do really appreciate the thanks though and for asking!! (and for all the support and comments you've left on other videos as well) You Rock!