Noam Chomsky - The Nation State

[@tracksuitjim]

If anyone is interested in a book that talks a whole fuckin lot about this shit, I recommend 'Nationalism and Culture' by Rudolf Rocker.

[@tracksuitjim]

also on the different types of state formation and what drives/repels state formation 'worshiping power' by gelderloos.

[@falulah-gu3qv]

thank you

[@eddiecurrent7721]

Legend!

[@gadisazaliatiarakasih8651]

YOURE A LIFE SAVER

[@geoprof6993]

𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝘂𝘁𝗵𝗼𝗿 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗯𝗼𝗼𝗸 𝗶𝘀 𝗱𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗿𝘂𝗰𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮. Rudolf Rocker was an anarchist. His views were more aligned with anarcho-syndicalism and a decentralized approach to social organization.

[@salmannasir3571]

Brilliant!

[@alexivanov7567]

Can anyone for whom US English is native help me and check misspelling in auto-generated subtitles? I already fixed few errors, but I'm afraid I didn't catch all of them. I need it for translating this clip into Russian latter.

[@Acceptall]

I can help. Я тоже говорю по-русски.

[@Зеленыйслоник-е8ъ]

Good that antinational empires are not based on violence.

[@astro8255]

Naom chomsky The most respected mind in our era .

[@drewmcmahon2629]

Quite telling isn't it? Scary stuff.

[@مرادمحمدصبري]

Thanks a lot

[@bjornbuckley]

Bring back city states!

[@danielcarvalho1453]

So basically Chomsky admits nation-states are good but non-Europeans should also get to form their own nation-states.

[@baconstripsareswag3060]

people naturally want to live with others who are like them. nation states are beautiful, they allow for a unity that cannot be achieved otherwise, ethnic and cultural differences have caused so much conflict historically, having nation states helps to eliminate so much of the potential for internal conflict.

[@mistycloud4455]

A.G.I Will be man's last invention

[@rampantmutt9119]

Democratic Confederalism as described by Abdullah Öcalan would make much more sense than the nation-state. Instead of assimilationist, militaristic, and practically imperialist states that poison people and commit ecocide to fuel their never ending hunger for GDP and surplus, communities brought together by consensus-oriented democracy and their love for each others' differences would be much better.

[@teriyakichicken1848]

There is so much truth emanating from Chomsky's words in this video.

[@JamesBongo]

Nah

[@sirip8505]

Are people united by genetics or by shared interests?

[@kx7500]

The latter

[@jlupus8804]

Of course most of today’s conflicts are driven by nation-states. Or do you expect the tribes that live safely under the sovereignty of those states, the same states you criticize, to enact war against each other? The ones outside national sovereignty certainly do. This is not a what-aboutism. This is an answer with fewer assumptions: maybe the problem isn’t the fact that states are at war with each other, but instead that the ideologies they propel are asking for war, both just and unjust.

[@nightwish1000]

His remarks about nation-states are all biased by his his own liberal pseudo-progressive ideological thought. I wonder how such a clever mind like Chomsky isn't able to see the enormous benefit of nation-states. the mere existence of states has reduced violent conflicts enormously especially due to the monoply of violence by the 'legal state'. without a state a social system, a system of law or democracy would hardly be possible. all this further reduced conflicts. (constructed) national identities (although they can be and have been abused in manipulative ways) created or intensified the mutual trust of citizens necessary for solidarity and functioning democracy. all in all, the nation-state is an important civic achievement despite the flaws that come with it and before we dump it we should always ask ourselves if the alternatives are really better.

[@boorhaave5880]

What is the source of this clip? Is it a recent interview?

[@sonofsoweto]

Now it's not in 2020

[@kabbfixwow4343]

0:41 what about German unification? The German states willingly joined Germany.

[@stoenicairi]

Germany is a federal state.

[@konstantynopolyt6770]

Most of these states were already semi-puppets of Prussia before they joined but even then Prussia had to wage two wars, one with Austria and with France to gain enough recognition for them to claim to be the sole unifire of the German state.

[@thatman3107]

I think the point is not that the previous systems were better (even tho it can be argued that they were better, since there were no large-scale massacres like those that happened after the birth of nation-states), but that we can and need to do better. As long as there is this us vs them tribalism, whether in a small or a large scale, there would be unnecessary conflicts, on smaller or larger scales. The primary basis of conflicts is the availability of resources, and of course, that fuels even further conflicts based on religion, race, etc. There is no reason why we can't overcome this in this day and age, except for the inhumane selfishness of a few who hold the cards.

[@Indicverse]

But was the scenario any better prior to the nation states? Were not people cutting each others heads off at the slightest provocation and wasn't the political instability stifling scientific progress?

[@IJust2PlayI]

The world has changed a lot since those times

[@greenchilaquiles]

Yes the scenario was better. Horrors like the holocaust, Armenian genocide, Khmer Rouge, Leopold II's congo, World Wars I and II, Hiroshima/Nagasaki, gulags under Stalin, weren't happening at anywhere near the same scale, before the rise of the Nation-State

[@wexqlp3863]

Since Nation-State caused massacres Kurds massacred number 500,000 (Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Balochs massacred number (100,000) Berbers massacred number (200,000) Tamils massacred number (200,000) Jews massacred number (6 million) Chinese Malaysian Korean Indonesian Filipinos and indochinese massacred numbers 10 million people by the Japanese America’s bomb on Japan (230,000) All due to NATION-STATES.

[@NeXuzMotionzz]

Before nation states, you essentially had empires that expanded and contracted but on the whole, people lived along ethnic and cultural lines instead of lines drawn arbitrarily to form modern nation states.

[@janbittner1465]

@@greenchilaquiles The fuck, the soviet union wasn´t a singular nation state.......and mentioning Leopold II´s congo is more of a topic about colonialism, but colonialism isn´t inherently nationalistic, empires existed even before the rise of nation states.

[@DeannaSouders-sg6of]

Music books movies magazines took comments out put me through hell and back they have to be watching and listening i dont vare only my real team Deanna souders Rensselaer in souders llc and todays is july 13 2024 Rensselaer library Deanna souders Rensselaer in souders llc

[@PrivateSi]

I'm for geographically limited direct democracy. Yes, most nations were born in blood but we have them now and they're useful for state administration and some defence against aggressive imperial empires. Nation-states reduce internal conflict on the whole (ie. between city-states or tribes) - but do risk greater external conflict as if one part of a nation is attacked the whole nation-state responds with more (potential) force. This is why I am against federalisation (ie. The US / EU / Russian Federation) as they're too big for their boots and mean wars between them escalate to world war immediately or very quickly. This is also why I am against NATO and other international military pacts (at least ones that don't include all nations)...

[@maxheadrom3088]

I'm from Brazil and we learn in school Portugal was the first nation-state of Europe. The historian that informs our schools is Eric Hobsbawn ... I came here after I found Snyder saying there never were nation-states in Europe. The Kenyan delegate at the UN did a wonderful speech during the first days of the Ukranian invasion about borders. Yes, a lot of the borders around the world were drawn by colonial powers but if they (Kenyans and Africans in general) were to worry about borders they would be in war to this day - that's more or less what the Kenyan diplomat said. Chomsky is a guy I rarely disagree, always to understand and a person who always teaches something - even when I disagree. (the title should be, to be fair, "Noam Chomsky on The Nation State" - this are some comments about the Nation State not a definition or history.)

[@SatpalVerma000]

India is not a nation state either. Its extension of British Empire. Tens of nations are bound together by military force. We want our Punjabi nation state just like Bangladesh was formed as a nation state out of Pakistan

[@rajdeepmane795]

Do you canadians have nothing better to do?

[@Blackpanthersrevenge]

What about Israel Noam?

[@BollocksUtwat]

We know what he has to say on that.

[@SatpalVerma000]

And India

[@JamesBongo]

Now go to Ethiopia and tell them its wrong to have a national identity...

[@walec9724]

That’s what you got from the video?

[@jarrodyuki7081]

tribal loaytly ahs rpelcaed the antion state and and the state.

[@falelaster]

Chomsky thinks multiculture is a bad idea, but seriosly, witch states or soseitys has not been founded on violence?

[@amlandeepbhadra242]

Facebook

[@geoprof6993]

𝗖𝗵𝗼𝗺𝘀𝗸𝘆 𝗶𝘀 𝗹𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴! Geopolitics 101 defines the following: - A 𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 is a distinct cultural or ethnic group sharing the same language and religion, history, and traditions. - A 𝘀𝘁𝗮𝘁𝗲 is a political entity that is recognized by most of the world’s sovereign states. - A 𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻-𝘀𝘁𝗮𝘁𝗲 is a state whose territory corresponds to that occupied by a particular ethnicity that has been transformed into a nationality. Yet, Chomsky's description of a nation-state is: "...𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘬 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘶𝘢𝘨𝘦𝘴, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦𝘴, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺'𝘷𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘥𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴..." If Chomsky doesn't know the basic concept of nation-state, then he is spreading 𝗺𝗶𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻. If he does know, then he is doing much worse, he is spreading 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗜𝗡𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗠𝗔𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡.

[@walec9724]

I believe he means US, but most of nation states are exactly as he says.

[@Alexander-James]

As flaws as nation states are- especially the way they were artificially drawn- it is not as bad as civilization states where the minoritys are not even seen as human. Take China for example, only the Han population is an accepted culture.

[@babitayadav4806]

China is a nation state

[@kx7500]

Lmao dude nation states have that as well. Just because China is behind socially doesn’t mean it’s a special issue with that. The US just near fell into a fascist dictatorship.

[@Alexander-James]

@@kx7500 well yes that’s true for America nearly falling into a fascist dictatorship. Meanwhile, China has minority populations in concentration camps, with systematic rape, and forced labour. Surely your cure for fascism, can’t be more fascism? China is also regressing, not progressing. So don’t describe them as a late arrival, when they’re society is becoming more authoritarian, not less. Thanks

[@kx7500]

@@Alexander-James wait, I’m not defending China. I’m saying both are terrible. Hope that clears things up.

[@mohammadismail9000]

china is a nation state

[@88dancel]

A lot of fascists in the comments, lol😂

[@lexle6203]

This is absolutely woeful argumentation. The nation state is absolutely a cornerstone of European civilization and has been a very good thing compared to the large empires that tried to impose one ideology on everybody.

[@hhhahahhhahha]

theres no other conception you can think of?

[@lexle6203]

@@hhhahahhhahha There either is freedom for a people to govern themselves or there isn’t. The lines are either drawn somewhere or they are drawn nowhere. You can think all kinds of utopian concepts but on this side of heaven we have to be talking about reality. I think that the western world’s current obsession with globalism, ”diversity” and ”multiculturalism” can end nowhere but in massive bloodshed. I hope I am wrong though.

[@cybernetichorizon8602]

The nationstate has no care for culture, its an economic structure at its core and any group that wields the economy best will rule the roost. Everything else is theater.

[@darrenronard2087]

@@lexle6203 Actually all those values, diversity and so on, are almost uniformly positive, but they've been misappropriated by forces that aren't genuinely interested in them at all. Obviously populations shouldn't be forced into artificial proximity and externally imposed multiculturalism, but it seems to be Chomsky's point that that's how many nation-states were created in the first place, so it's not only the great empires that were built this way. I do also find the username somewhat inappropriate, since it's hard to tell what the modern European obsession with nationality, "heredity," tradition and so on (all deeply misinterpreted anyway) has to do with Christianity, which surely seems to be about overcoming boundaries and divisions, not only in heaven but on this side as well.

[@lexle6203]

@@darrenronard2087 No. Anywhere in the world you find those things in great quantity i.e. diversity of ethnicity or culture for example it is by and large a source of conflict, strife, hatred and increased crime rates, feeling of insecurity and lack of trust in the public sphere. I wish it was not this way but it’s just the facts. This is human nature. But leftists don’t have a correct understanding of human nature, which is why they are leftists. Christianity is a global religion, a religious super structure if you will that trancends skin color, ethnicity and language so we can have unity in Christ. That being said when we are talking about earthly affairs there is literally no doubt that throughout the Bible, borders of nations(and other kinds of borders as well) of different peoples are very much a thing that is set by God. Just two examples: ”He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.” Acts 17:26 ”Do not move the ancient boundary Which your fathers have set.” Proverbs 22:28

[@rockrl98]

Poor brainwashed disabled human, may he find his salvation.

[@wexqlp3863]

SubVersa - you claim you found yours. Seems like you’re a sub-ordinate Neanderthal.

[@SyedShujashah]

May you find your cognizance.

[@kx7500]

Cope and seethe

[@DeannaSouders-sg6of]

Not retared Deanna souders Rensselaer in souders llc im smart not selling it i earned it they stold my ideas