Noam Chomsky - The Educational System

[@Steve-eh6qv]

Obedience is highly enforced in graduate school. I was even told not to use Chomsky in my research because "no one in political science takes Chomsky seriously." No explanation was given, I was told to read Agamben, not Chomsky.

[@zakshah3480]

Could you elaborate on who said "no one in political science takes Chomsky seriously"

[@Requiredfields2]

Probably don't want to deal with his fundamental critiques of the whole Poli Sci foundation.

[@ColorMatching]

From 1972 to 1992, Professor Chomsky was cited 7,449 times in the Social Science Citation Index -likely the greatest number of times for a living person there as well, although the research into those numbers isn't complete. In addition, from 1974 to 1992 he was cited 1,619 times in the Science Citation Index.

[@destrygriffith3972]

Hahaha grad school and it’s still “He’s not cool.” Omg Chomsky is *such* a nerd, I just can't… 🙄

[@destrygriffith3972]

Well he tears the entire poly sci establishment a new one on the regular - who in that *doesn’t* hate him? It would be weird to have anyone who IS taken seriously *not* poo poo Chomsky: they probably almost all do, except a bright few. Remember the rule: if it has to have the word “science” in the self-description, that’s because it’s not one. It’s more like a religion.

[@RobertWGreaves]

As a retired professor I look back at my efforts with disillusion. I tried to educate, but education is in many ways undeliverable. Did I teach things that were irrelevant? No, but college is not how people really learn. Yes, to be educated requires having access to accurate and inaccurate notions, but more than that it requires thinking for yourself. That is something a professor cannot make you do, you must do that for and by yourself. Roll up your sleeves, do the work, discover your mistakes, learn from them. Struggle to discover. The doer learns more than the student.

[@unrealnews]

I completely agree that the doer learns more than the mere thinker. I would add that clear, coherent thinking about where to direct one's focus is absolutely necessary. I think talks like the one in this video help inspire people to think tor themselves. The trickiest part is that the ones that can help you the most sometimes seem to see you as someone to compete against rather than assist. The distrust yields resentment and willful rejection of real wisdom regardless of its point of origin.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

Although I hold a graduate degree, I consider myself an autodidact. The trouble with autodidacts, according to Milton Babbitt, is that “they have the worst teachers”. Well, they have the worst teachers in the sense that they tend to focus just on what particularly interests them and ignore the rest. In short, they tend not to be well-rounded. I can think off the top of my head of three advantages to a formal education: you have a better chance of getting an overview; you have access to educational material you might not otherwise have access to; and you can see how you stack up against others. (If I hadn’t clearly been the best in my part-writing, counterpoint, and analysis classes, I would have abandoned composing long ago.) So I don’t regret college, but I’m still deeply bitter about a lot of it.

[@RobertWGreaves]

@@jeffryphillipsburns at best professors can be well rounded guides to those who self educate.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@RobertWGreaves Probably quite true, but nothing to sneer at.

[@TheEmmef]

I think a professor _can_ greatly help with people thinking for themselves. Apart from the usual physics stuff, I also appreciated scepticism, philosophy of science and independent thought. I fail to remember whether the courses about that were mandatory, *but if not, they should be.* Especially in the (international) political or history sciences, I see so many academic or renowned publications that are basically speculation and conjecture, navigating selectively through evidence and knitting it all up with logical fallacies. The worst thing is even very highly educated people don't recognise, don't want to recognise it (appeal to authority), and attack you with the same lame reasoning and even emotional blackmail. It is disgusting, stupid, and it sets the world ablaze.

[@camipco]

"Best seller in supermarket racks, which is where I read it" is some spectacular shade at a book.

[@megaforse]

or could be a hard flex as to how fast he can read.

[@ahh553]

I would listen to him for days ....real lighthouse

[@englishwithmuzammal3596]

This is what it is; no matter how hard someone tries to change any inane system, failure, frustration, and rejection are the outcome.

[@destrygriffith3972]

That’s why you abandon rather than reform totally unredeemable systems. See the book BEYOND CIVILIZATION for more.

[@gaebitch3200]

can’t change it with that mentality

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@destrygriffith3972 I have no opinion about whether education can be fixed systemically, but there are certainly quite a few excellent teachers, and there is generally a lot to gained from studying even with mediocre teachers under the right circumstances. All we can do in education as elsewhere is our own small part. (I’m not familiar with the work you recommend, but its title conjures for me the old adage about throwing out the baby with the bath water.)

[@HeatherHeatherWilson]

Having years listed in the description (regardless of how timeliness Chomsky’s thoughts tend to be given he speaks of longer trends) is essential. For this one he references recently seeing the fatuous bloom book that was published in February 1987, so this likely took place later that year on in the following one(s).

[@henrikmanukyan3152]

7:00 "in 60s students were looking away and asking questions that previously were not asked, from the point of view of universities that could be compared to burning libraries and universities"

[@mwj5368]

We had a rarity in my hometown high school. I don't know how he ended up in the north woods from California, but wow, he was a free thinker and one who stimulated critical and creative thought. I think he temporarily for the '71/'72 school year replaced someone on sabbatical or on some extended leave. He was my instructor for Archaeology, something our high school never had before, and I think has never had since. I don't know what happened to him after that year, unless he was fired, or was there on temporary assignment.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

I was one of those students who simply refused stupid assignments. In fact, from third-grade to twelfth-grade I did no homework at all-at home, that is. Fairly often (but certainly not always) I did homework at school. That wouldn’t work in college, so college took a bit of adjusting. In any case, there was significantly less stupidity in college (though still a fair amount). The rampant corruption in graduate school took me by surprise. The students were cutthroat unctuously hypocritical sycophants-and uninterested in their subjects, interested only in graduating and securing a teaching position. Most of the teachers were thoroughly quid pro quo and took little pain to disguise it. Three of the teachers in particular were constitutionally incapable of admitting what they didn’t know, sometimes with serious consequences. One of the three plagiarized me for publication. So yes, I agree with Chomsky here. Our educational system is a disgrace.

[@generalmalaise2930]

im just like you

[@UniqueGeekFreak]

Im the same Sadly i was coerced to become a teacher (indictrinator) i flunked , didnt get an exam, but worked as a teacher in school and preschool. Everything reeked of BS, so i quit, i just cant tell lies nor am i a puppet to do bad unto the future, which are our children with their agandas shoved down our throats

[@Aquamayne100]

0:47 man this is a gem

[@colleenhowe5035]

My mind went straight to dead poet society when he said some teachers encouraging original thought.

[@coreycox2345]

This makes me feel better about being a high school drop-out.

[@jameshicks7125]

The best decision I ever made was dropping out. I got my GED when I was 16, and started a Laser light show business, eventually building my own lasers and projection equipment. Along the way, I took up philosophy, astronomy, optical engineering, and music. I am better "educated" than my peers who got degrees. Education doesn't necessarily equal success. Success is primarily determined by the stability of the Anterior Cingular Cortex being in a hypoactive state. Higher conformity increases the stress response and hyperactives the ACC, thereby impeding self-directed goals and executive function. Capitalism is totally incompatible with an individual's neurological requirements, and an individual's hierarchy of needs.

[@Karyabs]

That could be the best decision you've ever made.

[@lobotomizedamericans]

@@carpenoctem775 Well, at least it is within the realm of feasibility that liberals can be pulled to the left out of their fascist-enabling states. Whereas, modern "conservatives" or right-wingers are *hardened fascists* and proto-fascists who can never be reasoned with in any way that would bring about _meaningful,_ lasting change.

[@leot6167]

@@lobotomizedamericans how about what Malcolm x said about liberals

[@lobotomizedamericans]

@@leot6167 I'm only going from my anecdotal experience. I have seen liberals (including my former self) evolve and be pulled to the left via reasoning and education. I have _never_ seen a right winger moved to a far left position. And I believe the reason for this is that these individuals tend to hold positions that are so antithetical to even basic human decency that I cannot imagine it happening. I'm not saying it cant happen, I'm merely suggesting that It's a lot easier to pull centrist/fascist-enabling liberals to the left than to pull *actual proud fascists* in that direction.

[@xasancle]

01:41 Obedience Selection. 🔗 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obedience_(human_behavior) 🔗 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[@caesar4857]

Heard homeschooling is on the rise..if that's true, I'm not that surprised

[@johnmoore8855]

That's principally because homeschoolers only want to indoctrinate them in their religions rather to promote critical, creative thought.

[@jenniferirvine7827]

I was Home Schooled for a few years and turned out fine.

[@israelsrealm]

@@johnmoore8855 A large part of the problem with the results of homeschooling is the motivations/ignorance of the parents who do it. It's largely white evangelicals and Christian fundamentalists.

[@joeduece1]

You said it.

[@user-gz4ve8mw9l]

Only for the privileged as precious few can afford such.

[@skiphoffenflaven8004]

I was lucky. I saw none of that behavior in my formative years (back in 82-94). My schooling was fantastic and self-promoting. I was encouraged, in every grade, to be who I am and to grow as much as I wanted to and was willing to. Same when at university (science major with three degrees today). But I do know that students were peer pressured to be a certain way to a much greater extent than by teachers and faculty. The Bloom book was insane.

[@noamfinnegan8663]

Couldn't have been any other way.😉 And yet it's still all about you. Don't worry, everybody knows 💚

[@discodave4500]

That’s because you already have the right “attitude”.

[@E-BRYMO]

Dropped out of high school but this keeps me going 😟😟

[@flutsch3265]

get your act together and try again dude. yeah it's really rediculous, but the alternatives you'll have are all a lot worse.

[@apatheticviber2437]

@@flutsch3265 what’s ridiculous ?

[@flutsch3265]

@@apatheticviber2437 School

[@apatheticviber2437]

@@flutsch3265 yhhhh thank u I was about to say

[@tatianahawaii13]

♥️

[@MixtapeKilla2004]

DemoCRIPS and ReBLOODlicans: No More Gangs in Government Paperback - May 28, 2013 by Jesse Ventura (Author), Dick Russell (Contributor)

[@nm7781]

i cant escape wrestling

[@cragjones1799]

chomsky is a gangster

[@winesap2]

I can see people questioning the status quo or questioning what’s being told to them by some kind of teacher or instructor. But simple disobedience for the sake of disobedience makes it really hard to have an atmosphere where you can learn something. I don’t think the entire purpose of public education is to turn people into obedient automatons. It’s to educate the public so they aren’t stupid and can be functional members of society. I’m glad that I was taught what I learned in public school.

[@blablabla7380]

The purpose is not disobedience, but creativity and a critic mind

[@munafghori4052]

I ask noam noam chomsky to give me some solitions to finding truth. He gave this. 1) Find and understand a problem. 2) Develop pathways to find a solution which means that have a plan for the purpose of finding and differentiating sound information from unsound information. By sound information i mean facts and truth out of those facts. 3) learn from mistakes.

[@palletcolorato]

Nailed it.

[@ivanc.6064]

"Don't cause any crisis of democracy, don't ask any questions" This is essentially saying that there is a correlation between democracy and creativity/reason (creatives being the ones who ask questions?). Interesting correlation. That could mean that contrary to the double axis political model established by Pournelle the relationship between creativity/reason and democracy is in fact linear?

[@Knightgil]

I'm a creative. I'm also a questioner. And I'm also someone who gets in a lot of trouble. So, there's absolutely a correlation.

[@samshado1744]

Behavioral problems 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@edmqnd8128]

I strongly disagreed til I quickly realized I was educated in Sweden and that his critique was directed to and would probably hold up in the US.

[@deek177]

and canada... we're not as neutral as everybody thinks... just another indoctrination think tank

[@lsd938]

Bullshit... schools in Sweden are too product of the times... could be slightly better than everywhere else...

[@destrygriffith3972]

Yeah I gotta back up M S on this. I’m sure Sweden is only superficially less bad. And the reason is that Swedish votes don’t affect global power. But they still affect local power. Look for the limits to thought imposed on Swedish students by that metric.

[@edgarhernandez3059]

Sweden is worse, a factoryof mediocrity.

[@henryfox6293]

This is somewhat true in Sweden, just to a much lesser extent than the US

[@Ashish-ss5nt]

Science part is same in india as in japan.

[@sibivasanthy6032]

So true. Indians feel so happy being obedient sometimes that it borders insanity.

[@samshado1744]

رائع

[@outroutono4937]

4:10 precise

[@TheLieselMD]

I’m looking for a video in which chomsky talks, among other things I believe, about why colleges and unis are not actually left wing or liberal. He made those comments far more recently. I saw it once and cannot for the life of me find it again. Does anyone know by any chance?

[@USMoxi]

colleges are predominantly left wing -

[@feraiivie]

Did you find it?

[@AnhTuPhucDerrickHoangCanada]

I have this thought on the matter in terms of money. A hs graduate is fully funded by the public. The higher you go the more of your own earned money is invested. So that the higher the attainment, the more leverage a economic agent has as something awesome. Now lets think of wahe theft or plagiarism. Its not the same work though it requires alive.

[@lionelmessi6857]

How old is this which year

[@Professor-taboo]

@@Descart-lw1nu looks like early 80’s by the clothes

[@Luckymillion96]

I went to the principals office😊

[@annalisavajda252]

Well I was very smart and it was expected I would go to University but family matters arose the year I was graduating grade 13 and I had to move and thought I would just take a year off to work but got used to a pay cheque didn't want a student debt and didn't really like school either as much as I enjoyed learning which I could still do just reading and watching documentaries etc. Maybe it was a mistake but my life was ruined by domestic abuse anyway I had years of retail customer service and management experience but now traumatized I can't stand to be around people anymore which is required in sales to be friendly and helpful.

[@lain2236ad]

I believe in you

[@marshakriss]

Try to find your inner peace.

[@wellingtonboobs7985]

Elon Musk has said the corporate sector feeds off the innovations that can only take place outside of the corporate world.

[@coreycox2345]

Noam Chomsky said that first, Wellington Boobs.

[@megaforse]

he also said "I put the art in fart."

[@sebastiansilva7481]

Some idiot created a lame "song" with this speech on the background and now he owns copyright. Well done, KZbin.

[@joshuablack711]

If I had kids I wouldn’t send them anywhere near the public education system ever

[@viviandarkbloom8847]

how do you know that?

[@kirkstewart-vf6hg]

What is educated? A hillbilly from the Ozarks or wherever that lives off the land grows own food processes own food listens to the signs nature gives them etc. Is more educated in their field than a professor from the highest university that has lived in the city and only read books that someone else wrote. Stimulating thought and having a college degree dosent make a person educated. Only in the field of their study are they educated and if they don't go out and experience in life first hand what their particular study was they still know nothing..

[@USMoxi]

he was way off - the public school system of education is a great deal more sinister

[@DipayanPyne94]

Fundamentally, it is not. If public education is problematic, it is because of defunding or lack of adequate funding by big money.

[@user-yo6qk9ds2q]

@@DipayanPyne94you need to see its history. the intentions are clear and written.

[@Mansurism]

Can Somebody tell me which writer he is referring to?

[@sakethrayaprolu2000]

2:56

[@КолзакМикхаылов]

im a right winger but this is one thing i can agree with him.

[@abdshado1748]

Behavioural problems 😹😹😹😹

[@eugenepohjola258]

Howdy. I believe Chomsky mixes intention and outcome. I do not think the aim is obedience and conformity. I believe that kind of thinking is paranoid. I believe the intention is to deliver knowledge, wisdom and skills to facilitate a humane existence. The result may be something else. Yes. Regards.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

Intention determines outcome. Different people within education have different aims, of course, but those with the most control and influence seek obedience and conformity. I saw public school from the other side when I worked as a substitute. I don't remember any teacher I met who seemed the slightest interested in the subject he putatively taught. Most teachers work to squelch creativity and original thought because they themselves are devoid of it, which is not surprising considering that most people are devoid of it.

[@eugenepohjola258]

@@jeffryphillipsburns Howdy. That may be the case on teacher level. Yes. With the intention I aim at legislation about public schooling. I still believe legislators mean well. Regards.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@eugenepohjola258 It depends what you mean by “mean well”. Virtually all Republican legislators (but not Republican legislators exclusively) mean for education to train workers for corporate use and nothing else. They can’t even comprehend the notion of education for its own sake. They’re not reticent about saying this openly. Legislators only affect education in broad outline, however, and they have very little effect on private education, especially at the college level. The most emotionally stunted and least sincere people in education are the administrators, and the administrators are mostly former teachers.

[@eugenepohjola258]

@@jeffryphillipsburns Howdy again. Obedience and conformity for corporate use. I would say team players for success in life and careers. I believe we both understand each other and what we mean. I see no purpose in entangling in word games any further. Best wishes.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@eugenepohjola258 It’s a cheap trick trick to label logic “word games”. It’s also a cheap trick abruptly to abandon a discussion just because you’re losing the argument. “Team player” is an obnoxious (and extremely trite) euphemism for “corporate drone”. Do I “understand you”? Not really. It does seem clear to me at this point, however, that you are opposed to education-although you give a contrived distortion of it lip service.

[@ThomasHaberkorn]

japanese motorbikes are still the best.. why?

[@RootinrPootine]

cause the science behind of motorbikes was understood 150 years ago?

[@ThomasHaberkorn]

+I speak loudly and my stick is quite small. This is true around the world. cannot be an explanation

[@ajdc88]

right, because all scientific innovation has to do with motorcycles and cars? i think Chomsky was speaking about bigger innovations, not just finding ways to perfect gadgets already established (wristwatches, etc)

[@ThomasHaberkorn]

+ajdc88 true, however I find it interesting that for some niches Japan tech is top notch (e.g. cameras, motorbikes, pianos, cars)

[@reneemmen3835]

+ThomasHaberkorn The book Noam is refering to (Alan Bloom - Closing of the American Mind) was published in 1987, and it was a bestseller "the last couple of years", so this talk dates back to 1989-1990. That is almost 3 decades ago...A lot of things changed in Japan since that time.

[@vijaykakade7086]

0:29

[@jenniferirvine7827]

Thank God I was homeschooled and Christian Schools. Dropped out in 8th grade. Went back to school and graduated with my High School Diploma.

[@Descart-lw1nu]

did u go to Uni ?

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

Oh sure, no indoctrination whatsoever at “Christian” schools.

[@USMoxi]

the “ Natzis! “ “so on and so forth!!?” lord

[@annalisavajda252]

Well I was very smart and it was expected I would go to University but family matters arose the year I was graduating grade 13 and I had to move and thought I would just take a year off to work but got used to a pay cheque didn't want a student debt and didn't really like school either as much as I enjoyed learning which I could still do just reading and watching documentaries etc. Maybe it was a mistake but my life was ruined by domestic abuse anyway I had years of retail customer service and management experience but now traumatized I can't stand to be around people anymore which is required in sales to be friendly and helpful. So I think book smarts are one thing but social skills are important too.

[@rodpadgett415]

Well tough.

[@suzannecastello4380]

Abusers are good at destroying one's self esteem. You deserve everything you've ever dreamed for, before you were knocked down. It is never your fault or your "mistake"; abusers prey upon people and are good at what they do. Maybe your earlier desires to read and learn will lead you to a different place. Good thoughts your way.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

When I worked at a music store (teaching piano) I remember one of the salespersons joking that "this job would be great if it weren't for the customers." I suspect this is virtually a universal sentiment in retail.

[@destrygriffith3972]

Omg I just had an epiphany. What happened to Chomsky was this. He’s milling about, Carol shopping. He sees Bloom’s book. He has to take a look, just in case it’s good. Serious. And, of course, it’s really just more of the same paranoia about leftism in the schools, teach them the classics, bla bla bla. Little could Noam have foreseen how correct those early worries were. I mean, I’m still on his side, don’t get me wrong. But now he’s just too old to admit it. The takeover is nearly complete. I want humans to survive as much as 94 year old Chomsky still does. But I have serious concerns about how that’s going to be accomplished by an intersectionalist-brainwashed electorate.

[@HousmanBrandon-r8p]

Taylor Mark Garcia Maria Martin Joseph

[@davidkokaska8130]

I think sometimes Noam needs to step back, I never felt like my neighborhood schools - elementary, high, and ? College indoctrinated - 1960s-1978 - but, to me - and true - it’s really the very gifted, talented and exceptional who really must be careful about indoctrination - get it!! And fast forward to today - yes, yes, yes, now, and how dangerous - it affects us other people too - true! Get it!

[@ancientnpc]

Chumpsky. The man who advocated "starving out" the unvaccinated. Yeah he's a real hero.

[@Hacktheplanet_]

Bot

[@sixmillionaccountssilenced6721]

the salt is real

[@JMBen]

This should be retitled "Chomsky talks out of his ass about something he knows nothing about for 7 and 1/2 minutes straight."

[@smilealways8954]

You are surely a highly educated person. Everybody is in awe for your knowledge and insight LOL

[@JMBen]

@@smilealways8954 Yes, I know, thank you 😊

[@emjane74]

Chomsky is absolutely correct...

[@JMBen]

@@emjane74 he's talking out of his ass. He has no evidence to back any of this. He's just giving a perception of education. The last time he was in a classroom the Berlin wall hadn't been built yet

[@emjane74]

@@JMBen Experience is evidence, I totally agree with him. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion as am I...👍

[@iezioaudi22]

DAMN!

[@R.Eg.S]

Having years listed in the description (regardless of how timeliness Chomsky’s thoughts tend to be given he speaks of longer trends) is essential. For this one he references recently seeing the fatuous bloom book that was published in February 1987, so this likely took place later that year on in the following one(s).