Non-Euclidean 3D Modeling - Hyperbolica Devlog #5

[@bjarnivalur6330]

"So, how big do you want the model to be?" "Infinitely big, but, like, also infinitely small depending on how you look at it."

[@proggigs]

What is this, a centre for ants??

[@mattiasselin4955]

CodeParade: "Ok no problem"

[@stertheblur]

@@proggigs Yes, and elephants.

[@kingminceraft9487]

@@stertheblur aleph ants

[@HenryNWhite-zp5zp]

"So, how big do you want the model to be?" "Yes, but actually no"

[@horsewater4140]

oh my god playing this in vr is going to be terrifying I can't wait

[@pancakes9648]

Don't

[@ianwagner3603]

Do it

[@zedfalcon6972]

i dont think it will work

[@zedfalcon6972]

never mind just finished video, ignore me

[@DrakiniteOfficial]

Agreed

[@markbv591]

I dont know why, but I find it so fascinating how when you get closer to objects in this game, it doesnt look like you're actually getting closer, but rather just zooming in.

[@bengineer8]

Perhaps because moving a certain distance scales all objects by the same amount, assuming that they are sufficiently far away.

[@Gaswafers]

That's how getting close to objects normally works, it's just that the speed at which you "zoom in" as you move is much faster in hyperbolic space.

[@bengineer8]

@@Gaswafers Not quiet. In euclidian space, the apparent size of close objects change much faster than those farther away from you with the size change approaching zero as the distance approaches infinity. Meanwhile, in hyperbolic space, walking some distance d towards some objects will always double their apparent size no matter how far away they are, as long as they are sufficiently far away.

[@bengineer8]

What d is depends on how hyperbolic the space is. The reason that objects need to be sufficiently faraway is because hyperbolic space acts like euclidian space on small scales. Example: For small enough circles, the area is the familiar pi*r^2. However, as the radius gets bigger, it becomes proportional to e^(2r).

[@markbv591]

@@bengineer8 Yeah.. I have no idea at all what that math stuff you said was.

[@SilentNyite]

That building looks really cool-HOLY CRAP WE ARE SO HIGH WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN??

[@AdamCDagg]

Had the same reaction. Went from "oh, so basically tall objects just look really short then? meh..." to "wait- WOAH don't look down!!"

[@user_rKChwLeBqKYyurEfiSLFmCBNC]

@@AdamCDagg basically anyone with fear of height

[@MandrakeGuy]

*okay now play it in VR.*

[@solarean]

@@MandrakeGuy oh boi

[@gallium-gonzollium]

**holds up gun** “Always has been.

[@captainsnake8515]

People like these amaze me. Being able to take immense artistic talent and translate that to an unintuitive environment is truly impressive. Really disproves the idea that there are only “math people” and “art people.”

[@wretlaw1203]

sometimes, the two are one and the same, and when that happens, you get amazing results

[@cerebralm]

People who are both math people and art people are usually my favourite people :)

[@seraaron]

@@cerebralm I'm one of those people! I was formally trained as a mathematician, but I've been an artist my whole life. Just this month I got into unity and game dev. I made a video recently on my channel about it, if you're interested :)

[@cerebralm]

@@seraaron subbed :)

[@maciejkamil]

Well, some areas of math literally overlap with art.

[@Fowly-Fr]

While I don't understand every concept presented, I find it fascinating how non-euclidean geometry can alter perspectives

[@theodoreglenn8230]

This reminds me about how Disneyland tricks you into thinking their park is larger than it actually is.

[@Kokurorokuko]

@@theodoreglenn8230 How do they do it?

[@theodoreglenn8230]

@@Kokurorokuko The top of the Castle is way way smaller than the top. Every story of their buildings are about 3/4 the size of the story below.

[@officiallyjk420]

Burj Khalifa: Oh? you're approaching me? *reveals true power*

[@boykisser-1]

HOW THE FUCK HAS NO ONE REPLIED??

[@arisadefazio7885]

@@boykisser-1 because it's not that interesting or funny

[@lordpsi99]

I love this

[@ttanfield5616]

"No PBR work flow... YET" Can't imagine how a non-euclidean world might look if it was photo real...

[@sighmon5640]

i imagine it would fall straight into the uncanny valley

[@ttanfield5616]

@@sighmon5640 Yes I have the same intriguing fear

[@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7]

It might be easier to get hyperbolic projections to work in raytracing or raymarching, if anything, because you wouldn't have to deal with as many hardcoded assumptions coming from the GPUs' fixed-function rasterizers. But you'd need to implement that raytracing/raymarching shader, you probably wouldn't be able to use something like RTX for this.

[@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7]

Also, I remember having the 'camera turns upside down when rotating' issue in my earliest days of attempting to make a 3D game. I probably messed up the Quaternions the engine expected and treated them like Euler rotation or something, Idk.

[@chromarush1749]

Mm. Technically the world you live on is non-euclidean. The curvature just isn't incredibly noticable.

[@Taaaamas]

"Wake up honey, there's a new Hyperbolica Devlog video!"

[@pfvento]

Sempre legal achar um brasileiro participando de um projeto massa como esse. Parabéns João

[@Eroamagorath]

de fato, o projeto é incrivel e até agora eu não fazia idéia que tinhamos um br por trás, valeu, joão!

[@the.perceptionist]

Pensei a mesma coisa

[@КрасныйОрёл-л9х]

Единственное, что я понял - Джоао либо из Испании, либо из латинской Америки.

[@pfvento]

@@КрасныйОрёл-л9х Бразильский!

[@gabreeles]

Ele falou o nome arrepiei

[@rafaellerescapone]

i love when i find out by accident that there's a Brazilian artist behind a project i like. Continua mandando bem, João! Estou super animado pra Hyperbolica

[@Lolatronn]

Im going to love buying this for vr and then immediately throwing up.

[@OrangeC7]

You aren't making full use of your headset if you don't throw up at least once a week

[@DS-tv2fi]

@@OrangeC7 Laughs I’m not getting motion sick easily.

[@GGreenHeart]

It was really cool to hear from João! Always interesting to see how hyperbolic space throws traditional game dev techniques on their head.

[@ZenoRogue]

The most challenging thing in HyperRogue is procedural generation. The space grows exponentially, so you cannot just create the whole world (of size 10^7000), because it will not fit in the memory. We also had to use unique algorithms, and a completely different game design which makes sense for such a world. And all this work is basically invisible for the typical player. Difficult things seem easy, easy things seem difficult. (It seems Hyperbolica does not go in the direction of lazy procedural generation.)

[@Taaaamas]

AIGHT HOLD UP... did my mans just say this is going to run IN VR!? Like damn now I want to go out and buy a VR so I can throw up in it.

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

"mans"

[@MuffinTastic]

my guess is that it won't run on standalones like quest, and you'll have to get a regular one that hooks up to a pc

[@wupsje1]

@@MuffinTastic quest can play pc vr games though with virtual desktop or via cable if you also have a pc with the game

[@OrangeC7]

It's possible it won't be quite as disorienting as one would think. Apparently, when seeing a hyperbolic space in VR, because parallel lines diverge it causes everything to appear much closer than it really is. Although, I haven't been able to witness this effect firsthand because I haven't been able to find any demos that I can try out with my VR headset.

[@GameVyse]

This kind of work must be one hell of a thing to put in a portfolio.

[@albingrahn5576]

Always nice to see talented artists go out of their comfort zone to work on things like this, huge props to João!

[@JuroJanik]

With all that stupidity in the world now, its super relieving to watch and listen to someone smarter than me. Amazing! Looking forward to trying out the game :)

[@JelleVermandere]

oohhh, I've been waiting to see this! Great Modelling João!

[@joaokalva5573]

Thank you!

[@secondengineer9814]

I can't wait for this. It's so interesting to hear about.

[@tiedie3763]

I am HYPER for Hyperbolica >:).

[@UCWjF-rlGGWBHxEPLGJXZBoA]

The low-poly art style is unique and cute and I am happy you guys settled on it. My PC has an old AMD Radeon graphics card and most Steam games can't run. Hopefully, since I pre-ordered this game on Steam, I will be able to have it run at 60 FPS. Since Unity is the primary game engine, it should automatically optimize all of the shaders. Hope your game will do well and get a lot of sales!

[@unvergebeneid]

It's amazing that you can still immediately see that this is Gauss in that painting, even though it's just a couple pixels.

[@asdddddaaaaaaaaa]

This was the best explanation of UV mapping i've ever seen. Its looks like you squished an object, dropped it into a pool of paint, pulled up and unsquished it.

[@themanintheback7697]

There he does it again. My brain got stretched and squished in order to understand everything :O

[@STANNco]

every still frame of this game looks like a flat drawing, ironically

[@MrFram]

Yep. It's the same reason walking in hyperbolic space looks like zooming - there's no parallax in hyperbolic space

[@ynntari2775]

I experienced none of these. It looks fine to me. Depth looks normal, movement looks normal.

[@STANNco]

@@ynntari2775 not a criticism. I just think it looks flat somehow. Still very freaking cool

[@ynntari2775]

Oh no, I'm not responding to a criticism, I'm just pointing out our perceptions appear to work differently, it just amazed me. It seems my brain is used to interprete hyperbolic spaces.

[@igorjosue8957]

@@MrFram well, yes, and this since this is a not so distorted one, in some highly distorted hyperbolic spaces maybe it even has inverted paralax, the far away things are, the faster they move

[@KidKusU]

Imagine getting Isekai'd in a Hyperbolic world

[@tsuyu2200]

Props to the mangaka that takes up that challenge.

[@neopalm2050]

you'd just immediately get lost if the curvature is worth noticing lol

[@gerobi1233]

What's that? Your House. Ok, looks strange. And what about this? NOOOO, don't go in the forbidden corner.

[@Kipwich]

If it’s an Isekai, what kind of overpowered abilities are you going to get?

[@SimonClarkstone]

@@Kipwich Lots of small bone fractures when you arrive, and a poor sense of direction. :-) I have considered the situation before and decided the best explanation to give people I'd meet is that I come from a very small universe where everything is tiny, and the change of size injured me because obviously (in hyperbolic geometry) a small thing cannot be scaled up without being slightly distorted.

[@zikunwang8286]

The animation explaining the UV map and the UV unwrap is amazing

[@nickcunningham6344]

Y'all don't rush this game. I want your best work. That said, super excited to play it!

[@lisafenixx]

as a 3D environment artist this is really interesting!!! thanks so much, I would love to see more dev logs about the art some time, keep up the amazing work you too. also the texturing workflow is genius.

[@FunkyPants3D]

With every update I get more certain that, once this dropps, you will never have to worry about money for the rest of your life. Take your time, we're all very much hyped to enjoy hyperbolica

[@allanroberts7129]

Those are some very interesting details. I can't even imagine the complexity of trying to add things like clouds or birds without defaulting to a classic sky map with its own rules. What you have done is really incredible! I wish you the best of luck and will be looking forward to the future.

[@JonixMaroni]

A really nice move putting a picture of Carl Friedrich Gauß in such a space, chapeau!

[@MrMcJazzhands]

I am living for these Hyperbolica Devlog videos. And getting a dive into the 3D modeling aspect of things is even cooler!

[@danielsilva9502]

Big portuguese hug to João! Happy to see PT gamedevs!

[@mattpreece6106]

I love this so very much ... it is so fascinating to see the distortions and how everything is so relative

[@afailable]

The fact you guys can pull this off is mind-blowing

[@ArthurSilva-te5rt]

Caraca mano, eu realmente não esperava um br aqui. Parabens pelo trabalho Jão

[@TheDuckCow]

Really like that tip of using a single image texture for a region/level/model with different gradients, might adopt that idea

[@jfp0763]

I cannot freaking believe there's a Brazilian working in the project, it's so amazing to see how this community grew in the previous years, also "João, tu é foda parceiro"

[@MinatoCreations]

Oh my god! It is so good to actually see another brazilian doing great projects like these ones

[@lazilexi]

This is looking great! Can't wait for the release

[@Favmir]

This kind of visual effects would be complemented super well by A Beginner's Guide style storytelling. You walk away from a small object, and it gets lost in the fog. Later, when you're far away, the fog clears up to reveal it surrounding the entire world around you. You climb a ascending stair, up and up, and when you look back down, the ground is so far away you can't even see. Things like that feel like some kind of metaphor.

[@hyperbeast4340]

Yes!

[@lucasvicari6508]

Muito bom ver brasileiros ganhando destaque em projetos como esse, ótimo trabalho joão!!!

[@Im_Derivative]

This is the only game I NEED

[@mutcholokoW]

I was gonna say: "imagine this in VR" Seems like we won't have to imagine :) You guys rock!

[@r3dp9]

The reaction videos will be priceless.

[@element_119]

It's awesome to see more into how this works, and it's also cool to see more environment sneak peeks!

[@dipayanpaul7569]

The people making this game are geniuses. Really glad something like this exist.

[@TheLiverX]

Tessellation can be used to uniformly address the geometry matching issue, controlling the subdivision amount with the norm of the distortion tensor (presumably max norm). OpenGL version 4.0 nicely supports it, it increases time spent on the vertex stage, but can be controlled to only tesselate highly distorted areas.

[@p9rk]

How it feels when you have 120 fov:

[@randomcatdude]

The true Quake Pro experience.

[@BrokVoekler]

AH CAN SEH FOR FOOKIN MIYLES

[@rtyzxc]

how about infinite fov?

[@p9rk]

infinity*infinity

[@lordpsi99]

vineM8

[@xaytana]

The outro scene makes me want a hyperbolic maze game. Where everything looks fairly normal in 3D space, but the pathing doesn't line up to Euclidian space, where the hyperbolic mapping is so subtle it's almost not noticeable without prior knowledge of the game being in hyperbolic space.

[@eeeeeek]

modeling is one thing.. but it amazing they can animate and explain this in a simple way so we can understand more easily

[@rafaelpaz2046]

Parabéns!! Agora os comentários pertencem aos brasileiros. Congrats!! Now this comment section belongs to us Brazilians. (If you dont get it, João, the modeling guy is clearly Brazilian)

[@justinesalgarino2718]

Even though I've watched the other devlogs on how non-Euclidean spaces work, seeing it in real time still amaze me by a lot.

[@yShrimpy]

This games just keeps on looking better and better! Looking forward to release!

[@pascal5926]

the decision to hire a professional artist to make such an intereting game look fantastic is ultimately why I'm going to get this. wish I could buy multiple copies

[@popvotocek]

I mostly have no idea what is happening in these devlogs but I still enjoy them and I'm exited for the game!

[@axelprino]

This game is gonna be so disorienting, but it looks so interesting and cool.

[@Xandawesome]

Yup, I already know this is going to be such a great game

[@ДанилаизТагила]

Order-5 square tiling Dual polyhedron Order-4 pentagonal tiling. You should attach objects to tile centers instead of vertices to avoid distortion. That is, the tiles should not have physical vertices, only centers and sides.

[@truth14ful]

It's always interesting to me how walking while looking at the horizon looks more like zooming in than moving toward it, since horizontal lengths grow exponentially the farther they are away from you

[@mrconscious9820]

I really look forward to playing this game and I just discovered your channel 10 minutes ago. It looks amazing so far!!

[@neolynxer]

That last forest maze tiles are exactly the confusing yet predictible stuff i hope for

[@anatoly3354]

your videos are always so good. keep is up and i can't wait for the game to be done.

[@PopLadd]

YES. I WAS SO HOPING THIS WOULD BE VR-COMPATIBLE. YES. THANK YOU. YES.

[@autotactic]

If I played this game I would be like "Wow, how they did this? I dont understand anything" But we have these incredible explanation videos, so now im like "Wow, how they did this? I dont understand anything"

[@V4riousMind]

This is definitly a game i will buy and also love while playing. Incredible Stuff you have done there. :D

[@gamestroyer891]

Me: I like your funny words magic man

[@BogoblinGamer]

Oh my god, I love the idea of using a palette as a UV map. Going to steal that idea

[@andre.drezus]

Meu Deus, é um brasileiro modelando pro Hyperbolica?!?!? QUE SURPRESA MARAVILHOSA!

[@sekken4209]

Imagine what VR would be like in this. It would be absolutely headache inducing, but really nifty at the same time.

[@dreamchild7378]

Now I can finally experience what it feels like being a main character in H.P Lovecraft's stories

[@bettercalldelta]

don't google Lovecraft's cat name

[@nicefloweytheoverseer7632]

@@bettercalldelta is it CAThulu?

[@bettercalldelta]

@@nicefloweytheoverseer7632 no it's the n-word

[@terdragontra8900]

I am so excited for this, I really hope this becomes a trend and we see more non-euclidean games in the future.

[@michaelmcdonald3427]

with each passing devlog i get more and more excited for hyperbolica's release

[@MattSeremet]

That technique with the versatile texture is amazing!

[@clockworkkirlia7475]

Awesome! Glad to hear the voice of the artist working on this too.

[@frog1405]

All this has made me realize that a Hyperbolic/Non-Euclidian Horror Game would be awesome.

[@jacobcw5427]

I was thinking, man this would be cool in vr, and then I was told it is! Even more exciting than before.

[@ross2k220]

Your voice + peaking on 3 tabs = ≈W E I R D≈

[@ross2k220]

Nevermind it's trippy sober too lol

[@oddixgames6704]

Very good explanation, wish you guys all the best!

[@AlejandroSilva-mr7yy]

What the hell I discover your channel, binge this dev diary and an hour later you post a video after a whole month like what????

[@sanssoleilfilm]

This is so state of the art, I love it!

[@atarixle]

I am not a gamer in any means, but I love this devlog!

[@Testgeraeusch]

The forest near the end looks awesome. If the game features running through partly hidden paths like that, I'm all for it. You could easily have some interesting neat places like a pond, cave or lonely house in a forest like that since running around easily misses out on huge parts of the actual map and therefore makes exploring it more interesting.

[@dudealan2001]

This looks so cool I really hope this catches on

[@mikeohc]

I had a hard time dealing with quaternion, but this is literally in a new dimension!

[@Mrjcowman]

Oh, man, hyperbolic maze in VR is going to be a wonderful nightmare "Why are you cutting up that paper, folding more paper, and taping it into the cuts?" "I need to make a map where four 90° turns aren't enough to get back to the start"

[@julianemery718]

Ah yes, the hypersian rug.

[@windums560]

New videoooo!! Can't wait to see the game

[@danony_ya]

Muito bom, muito informativo, excelente conteúdo.

[@NStripleseven]

Different sort of thing for this video, but equally cool to see.

[@slamtronx5834]

So cool an actually innovative video game!

[@wellyngtonweller6575]

It's great to see a Brazilian person working on this project. We have a lot of qualified people here but I don't know why there isn't many companies developing games around here :/ It's probably due to the government bureaucracy but no way of knowing for sure Ahh, parabéns João por estar em um projeto tão incrível como este :)

[@carboncuber3147]

This game looks so amazing. I can't wait for it to be released.

[@thecodeprism]

Normal people: Bro I am using a texture pallette Code parade modeller: we makes the models infinitely small on the UV map and then use the colors

[@LogicEu]

Absolutely incredible. Keep it up!

[@jerrygreenest]

This type of game devs make psychodelic trips real

[@chasemarangu]

It is painful, trying to get a game to run in realtime AND have decent lighting/shading effects, I know it is. Baking the ambient occlusion into the texture was destined not to work perfectly since we are not using a Zeno Rogue style hyperbolic raytracer, but a 3D rasterizer on euclidian geometry projected into hyperbolic space then projected back into euclidian space...

[@leonardomadona]

Hehe que boa surpresa ver um artista brasileiro trabalhando no jogo! Mandaram bem!

[@megalunalexi5601]

When it split into both eyes I held my phone close to my face and refocused my eyes until the images kinda-sorta overlapped and it was pretty cool

[@megalunalexi5601]

Too blurry to get a sense for things though, so I'll appreciate how good everything looks normally lol

[@micahhesketh3448]

Gosh, I cannot wait for this to release!

[@JoakimfromAnka]

Love the green sky in the forest.