The BEST Classes for BEGINNERS in Pathfinder 2e - RANKED (Remastered)

[@alexjgilpin]

New GM: "Hey guys! New campaign. Level 1." Old Player: *"Alchemist, then.* Hey, GM, are we using the Gliminal rule for beneficial failures on drugs?" New GM: "The heck is a Gliminal rule?" Old Player: "Targeting squares with bombs instead of creatures. How's the AC situation?" New GM: "Don't even know, man." Old Player: "Do inhaled poisons affect creatures that stand inside them? Yes? No? End of turn?" New GM: "They... don't do that already?" Old Player: "On that topic: As an Interact object is their activation based on Reach so I don't poison myself?" New GM: "Wait, what are you even?" Old Player: "Cool, cool. Other topic: Regaining Versatile Vials isn't action-based so it's an Effect of the feature and not an Activity, right?" New GM: "W-what's the difference?" Old Player: "Oh and what are you ruling as the failure effects of Interact:PassOff? Action is lost? Lands at feet? Adjacent square?" New GM: "Uh... h- huh?" Old Player: "So Versatile Vials employs Wearing Toolkits, right?" New GM: "I... I guess?" Old Player: "Like a good third of all alchemical items are U or R. To weigh the Inventor feat... (Pulls out 400 pages of items) can I get some permissions for this campaign?" New GM: "Oh lawd." New GM: "You're going to be a fighter."

[@AlexKlindt]

1. No idea what a gliminal rule is... but you can voluntarily fail the saves on drugs, it's in the trait. If you're talking about something like' allies to choose to voluntarily increase the success rate of say a reposition maneuver' I suppose something like that could apply to drugs? 2. AC of 10, you have to be able to hit the broad side of a barn. 3. End of affected creature's turn. Like a cloudkill iirc. 4. I'm assuming you're not ending your turn in your own poison cloud. 5. I'd run it like refocus where depending on what you're doing in the meantime, you can regain vials. 6. I legit have no idea what is meant here. lol 7. Yeah. 8. U's can be invented at higher DCs, R's are case-by case.

[@alexjgilpin]

@@AlexKlindt 1. In Drugs on page 120 of the GMG a player can voluntarily fail only the initial save, not the ones after it. The Gliminal "rule" of beneficial failures is found in Bestiary 3, page 114, attached to the Gliminal creature, and might at the GM's option apply to saves after the initial. 2. Good GM. My current one rules that the AC of the ground is a character level-based DC. 3. That's not in the description of inhaled poisons on page 248 of GM Core but as far as determination goes, good GM. I once had a GM that strictly interpreted the description to mean a creature that had the area created around them and stood inside it never had to roll... it defeated inhaled poisons as a category. 4. Interaction range is at reach, according to the combination of Player Core 416 "Interact", 421 "Grid Movement" and 421 "Size, Space, and Reach" - with 20ft reach you can activate the inhaled poisons at the corner of a square 20 feet away just as much as you could drop an item there, or open a door there. A small or medium creature will have 5ft reach, and can center the cube on a corner that is 5 feet away, barely missing themselves with the cube. 20% of the community, as of a recent reddit poll, had believed someone opening an inhaled poison must include themselves in the area which would add quite a bit of impracticality at some tables. 5. The description of Versatile Vials specifically states other exploration activities are allowed to occur, yet as it is not comprised of actions it itself cannot be an activity by the description of activities on page 15 of Player Core and so defaults to being an Effect of the feature. This is important for the Fatigued condition, which could cripple the Alchemist class during any travel if their feature was an activity. 6. The description of the Interact action on page 268 of Player Core states that a player can pass an item to someone on a DC15 ranged attack with a 10-foot ranged increment. It doesn't list a failure effect, which leaves the state of the item in limbo. 7. Good GM. 8. All access to uncommon and rare are technically at the GM's option - both within the Inventor feat itself on Player Core page 257 and in World Building on GM Core page 23 - so within that framework, good GM.

[@Mazryik]

😂😂😂

[@AnaseSkyrider]

@@alexjgilpin 6. How does rolling a d8 to see what adjacent square it bounces off into sound?

[@jchan5210]

And that's where the GM doesn't take on the "Old Player" (likely a rules lawyer)

[@FalcoTheDino_YT]

My very first character in pathfinder was the alchemist. I did not do any research beforehand. Do not underestimate the amount of work you need to put in. Let me account to you some of the many mistakes I made. 1: I never bought alchemical formulas. I thought they were only available per level-up. 2: I picked the toxicologist subclass and expected to be a damage dealer, since I knew poisons were dangerous. In the 6 months of playing it, my greatest accomplishment was killing a baby boar by myself. 3: I never selected bombs for formulas because I was supposed to be “the poisons guy” and didn’t think that they would be useful towards what I was going for. Every alchemist class needs bombs. 4: Towards the end of my alchemist’s time, I became the party healer. And I was really good at it. This was because I had put the formula for a magical healing potion in my formula book, which was something you’re NOT SUPPOSED TO DO since potions are inherently magical and NOT alchemical.

[@Zedrinbot]

Fun fact: if you can get bombs that deal piercing or slashing damage (they're uncommon), technically they are valid candidates for applying poisons RAW. They'd only apply to the creature hit, but they're still a weapon.

[@emptyptr9401]

I would argue that the bard is easier than the sorcerer actually BECAUSE of the composition cantrips. The question of "WHat do I do with my thrid action" is one that can be very difficult especially for beginners, and I think those cantrips give them a VERY simple AND always useful answer to that question. As a sorcerer that can probably be more of a problem imo.

[@christopherg2347]

Compositions are pointlessly complex in my view. Instead of a Sustained spell, they went for 1 Action, 1 Turn Cantrips. Which confuses even experienced players. And then we have Focus Spell Spellshapes to give them longer durations. It is like they picked the most complicated mechanic for any problem.

[@emptyptr9401]

@@christopherg2347 Is it? I have new players one of which plays a Faiths Flamekeeper Witch, and for them the concept of "Once action Cantrip grants one turn benefit" is very easy to unterstand (I know its technically a sustained spell but thats not how they use it). I think that "Once action for an effect that lasts one turn" is quite easy to understand and would argue that it is MORE complex if you could/would have to sustain the spell. Maybe it is confusing for older players who already know the system and thus expect it to behave in a certain way, but for a completely new player who doesn't have such expectations I think it is very simple. The Spellshape feats are also optional, so you can opt-out of them. There are ways of building every class complex.

[@christopherg2347]

@@emptyptr9401 You just highlighted how easy it is to much up Sustained duration and 1 Action, 1 Turn Cantrips. And your solution to the Spellshape Focus Spells is not using them because they are too complex? That highlights my point as well.

[@emptyptr9401]

@@christopherg2347 " You just highlighted how easy it is to much up Sustained duration and 1 Action, 1 Turn Cantrips." Did I? That player doesn't know how the bard works and simply didn't realize (or forgot) that the Witch spell can be sustained. They just know "If I use ability ally gets extra damage until its my turn again." What is complex about that? The ability to sustain it makes it MORE complex. "And your solution to the Spellshape Focus Spells is not using them because they are too complex? " By that logic fighter would be an easy class because you could theoretically also build them as a very complex skill monkey/combat utility class. Its completely fine to have complex options on simple classes. Doesn't make the class overall much more complex if those options are easy to opt out. Options are there to be, well..., optional. A player can read through the option, maybe ask their GM how it works it if they struggle to understand, and then decide whether they like it or not. And if they still struggle to get how it works, they will just not take it (Unless they are willing to invest further time and energy to learn it).

[@MatildatheMoonwolf]

As someone who played pathfinder 2e for the first time and picked thaumaturge as my first class (recommended by my GM), I can confirm your point that the class is not that hard for beginners, you just need to remember the 3 action economy and to have a long range weapon if you are struggling with said 3 action economy. The best way I can describe the class to a new player is like “do you want to play a player character that plays kinda like something out of Castlevania or Monster Hunter?”

[@N1ght2098]

I remember when one of my friends was a completely new player (shes still pretty new even now) and she made a witch. She essentially played like a spell caster most of the time, but her familiar was a stone duck that could stand up and walk on its own. Occasionally, she fucking THREW IT because why not. It was hilarious every time Mr Puddles came on the scene.

[@LucRio448]

I fully intend to play a witch as my first character and holy hell, am I gonna steal the "throw your familiar" thing :D

[@FirstLast-wk3kc]

HEY, I JUST BOUGHT MY MILK, WHEN DID YIU EAT IT?!?!

[@rossjames9267]

Your milk was a dud.

[@Urbanizedfox]

Probably why it was eaten and not drunk

[@joeking1956]

Mmm... Chunky!

[@meliodas8409]

Dang it... I spent like 2 weeks figuring out how to make a kineticist as my first character. No, I've got to play it, I'm going to enjoy this sunkcost fallacy I'm in.

[@danrimo826]

Once you get going they are work really well. Just a BIG learning curve at lvl 1

[@Zedrinbot]

The rankings are always about where I'd put them, but I do find it always amusing how in literally every fantasy system I've seen (especially d20 ones) the base spellcasters are always a head-and-a-half more complex than most of the base martials. The first 5 in the list are all your typical martial options for a fantasy game.

[@theluckygamer7593]

I remember in my first pathfinder 2e campaign I choose Psychic because I love psionics... yeah needless to say that as soon as the campaign had a reboot I changed to into a ranger and never looked back. Although now that I have a better understanding of Pathfinder I might wanna retry psychic, maybe

[@cyrusmann5443]

pick oscillating wave it makes psychic super simple trust me bro 😈😈😈

[@AlexKlindt]

I just started playing an Oscillating Wave Psychic like maybe a month and a half ago. First combat, I shit you not, I stride->stride->shield next turn unleash psyche, ignition->>psi burst, we killed the guy, encounter didn't end as we spent the next turn looking for ambushers, then I was stupefied going into the meat and potatoes of the class.

[@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758]

I've found you can mitigate the luck-dependance of the Magus by taking Expanded Spellstrike and spells that require a saving throw. The attack roll then applies only to the weapon, and the enemy makes a saving throw for the spell, and you'll usually get at least half damage on the spell. It's much more consistent, and Expanded Spellstrike is great regardless.

[@nargileh1]

"You can make a fighter a little bit more complex if you choose to" ... Especially using when using the free archetype rules and considering the number of classfeats they can convert to extra archetype feats. Might be the most customizable class out there.

[@michaelbushee3968]

Seeing Quacks of Quedlinburg in the background made me happy. It's a great game.

[@marianpetera8436]

I protest :) When I first came to PF2 some 2 years ago, I saw the picture of goblin tossing bombs and drinking from a vial and thought "I want this!". Made an alchemist, and got hooked instantly. That was premaster, mind you. Yeah, there was a bit of reading, but in all honesty, I found the multitude of elixirs, bombs, mutagens, and poisons fascinating, rather than overwhelming - it's not that different from reading a spell list to pick spell from. My second favorite was a gator who was arguably more difficult to play, but that's probably because the class required (and still does, to an extent) a lot of GM buy in.

[@amelialonelyfart8848]

My best friend started playing Pathfinder earlier this year with two games. One, a short campaign with me and some of my PF friends he's never met, and the other a one-shot ran by a friend of mine. He was really nervous in the mini-campaign for awhile, playing a barbarian and not really getting used to the 'martial struggle' (~60% accuracy at the early game) but in the one-shot, he played a Cleric and according to the GM 'was the hero of the game'. Made me really happy because I think he was not really liking the ebb and flow of TTRPGs at first.

[@HistorysRaven]

I'd be considered a "beginner" because I've never played a PF2 campaign, but I also know how characters work due to watching your videos and creating characters and leveling them up to see how they work. Swashbucklers were made for those of us who played FF14. Knowing your rotation is so important in both cases.

[@kablueyjoe]

My first PC was a rogue, it’s easy to pilot and flexible in skills. I would say thief is the easier subclass of rogue as well because you can dump str.

[@creativeburst2442]

I think a cleric and a druid knowing all there spells makes them more approachable. If your playing a sorcerer you have to look over the 1 rank spells and choose which ones you want, a wizard will have to look over it for there spellbook, so when creating a character they have to decide which spell they should. (Though GM with new player it would be a good idea to let the swap for free at least a few times). Cleric and Druid having access to all the spell makes it so if they decide they don't like a spell, a situation comes up that preparing a spell they usually don't becomes useful or want to try a different one.

[@DainnGreywall]

4 weeks from now I'll be playing a Gunslinger for my first ever character... still debating which way however. Thank you for your videos btw, they've been a huge help getting into Pathfinder 2E. I've been excited for a new breath of fresh air TTRPG-wise after DMing a DnD 5e campaign for over 3 years.

[@JacksonOwex]

5:43 Now I have to make and play a Fury Barbarian! 8:04 I wonder how big this list of characters I am going to have to make and play is going to be?! OMG! I REALLY DO need to make an Outwit Ranger! "You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to... INTIMIDATION checks... against(word changed for grammar and flow) the prey..."

[@CrownlessStudios]

Fury is actually fine now. They get a damage bump and resistance to weapons is nice. It's not nearly as overshadowed as Outwit is for Rangers.

[@JacksonOwex]

@@CrownlessStudios I feel like Outwit get overshadowed because they made TWO full classes that ALSO do similar things, i.e. get bonuses to do things against them by using your smarts.

[@CrownlessStudios]

@JacksonOwex ehhhh. That contributes to it, but Outwit was *always* overshadowed. Free bonus damage from precision is immediately obvious why it's good and Flurry is a just a dpr machine.

[@caihly2443]

I'm not sure I would reccommend the rogue to a new player. My first-time players tend to forget about some of their feats and items, so having double the number of skill feats might be an obstacle to fully understanding the class

[@Acier25997]

@8:04 *Weeps in My precious Leshy Outwit Ranger for our Kingmaker game* Honestly, Outwit is the most fun I've had with a Ranger in ages, but they only really shine in free archetype games tbh. Figuring out ways to really maximize the bonuses you get from skills can lead to a really fun and unique playstyle. For example, they're the rangers best suited to getting maximum value out of the monster hunter feat line (despite the fact that half of monster warden doesn't stack with Outwits bonus to AC which is extremely stupid) and they def get the most value out of stealthing in combat. They honestly have some really neat combo's, they just play so much different to normal Ranger.

[@JacksonOwex]

I just looked up what all it gets bonuses to and I saw the part about "bonus to INTIMIDATION checks" and thought "OMG! I REALLY do need to make one of these for REAL, not just as a joke against what NoNat said!" The problem with that is, I am mostly(I would not say "Forever" but it's pretty close, though I like it that way as I can play EVERYTHING!) a GM so I likely won't actually get to play one!

[@AlexKlindt]

Iirc, Outwit's bonuses work on beastmaster companions too, so you can potentially have different pets for different combat applications.

[@Acier25997]

@@AlexKlindt They do! Which is really nice because it means you can get value out of skills like intimidate without needing to try and spec into it yourself and making yourself too MAD.

[@ZeroExperiment]

Gonna play an alchemist as my first character this Sunday! I’m ready to craft and sacrifice the blood of the innocent for a Philosopher’s Stone ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ

[@christopherbowers4845]

Are you Voldemort ?

[@duncbot9000]

Nonat stole your milk for cereal requirements.

[@Nonat1s]

I need it for my Cinnamon Toast Crunch! 😭

[@Blizz3112]

@@Nonat1s He needs it to strengthen his monstrous fangs... :-P

[@grugspro]

i started with alchemist and had a lot of fun! my main annoyance was not feeling like i had enough alchemical items made (the campaign i was in didnt really have much of any downtime) and that quick bomber wasnt a default for the class at level one and covered elixirs, poisons, and mutagens. looking through alchemical items to figure out what looks interesting was cool, esp with items like lozenges and it seemed less complex than keeping track of spell slots and prepared spells

[@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758]

I've played a lot of D&D/pathfinder 1, and tend to get bored of my characters quickly (hence often GMing). My first character was a Magus with the free Psychic archetype, and I got do to SO MUCH STUFF. It was perfect for me.

[@dantedetoussaint209]

Did you really enjoy pf2 more than pf1? And getting bored in pf1?? There are so many archetypes and prestige classes and homebrew, templates and much more

[@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758]

@@dantedetoussaint209 Pf1 combined with D&D 3.5 was fantastic for me, but pf2 is much more balanced, so I don't have to basically create my player's characters for them so they don't fall behind in power. The combat is much more interesting to me, the entire rules set and a character builder are free online, and don't worry, there are just as many archetypes, feats, and options for your character. It was tough to let go, but I enjoy pf2 much better.

[@dantedetoussaint209]

@@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758 that's very fair, pf1 is completely free online as well with rule sets and everything. I guess that is a reason why I like pf1 because it is more like unbalanced in certain aspects, I like it, even if it's the enemy or me or someone else at the table. But I got a question for you, I do see the value of pf2, I think it's interesting, but how would you recommend it to someone who runs only 5e (of course I did share many of nonat1s's videos but the dm, respectfully didn't check them out due to the pretext of being busy, I say pretext because our sessions in 5e go for quite a few hours and it wouldn't be hard to take a watch time of a few minutes)

[@QuezBT]

So, Little Story. I've been running Starfinder 1on1s with the playtest and one of the adventures has basically been investigating discoveries made by another Exploration Team and because its a 1on1, I'm in the habit of making allied NPCs using Player Classes so that there are 4 people in the party for encounter balancing. Well, because that other team had been the first to discover everything that made that game interesting, I decided to stat them out the same way because they're another team exactly like them in the fiction of the game. For the Soil Scientist (Pedologist technically, look it up, it's a major branch of Soil Science) I got recommended to make them an Alchemist because I wanted to avoid Investigator since there's an Investigator on the Player's team and they hadn't rolled above an 8 for Devise a Stratagem. Trying to make that Alchemist broke my brain, and I understand that I have been playing PF2e as a GM and Player for about 3 years now. I eventually understood it, I think. The problem that got me so confused was Foundry hasn't implemented the changes to the crafting system to work with the New Alchemist; so what I was reading on the features wasn't reflected on the sheet. I was also having a bad time with reading comprehension and needed to read things several times to understand them. My only other experience with Alchemist is even worse. Pre-remaster a Player picked Chirurgeon for a Side Game that I wanted to run with a small group because my main game was Strixhaven and that was causing me mental damage trying to run and that decision ended up killing that project as He wasn't having fun with the class, so I wasn't having fun running the game, and I just gave up on it. So yeah, every time I've had experience with Alchemist, the class has hurt me. I see why people like it, but it is just the worst combination of Complicated and Situational.

[@nicholasmann4480]

LOL THAT INTRO bro, youre hilarious, make great videos, have a great conversational speaking tone, no "youtuber voice", love your style. Liked and subbed and binging your whole channel. Starting up my 1st pf2e campaign. Amazing stuff.

[@FirstLast-wk3kc]

My first pf2 character was outwit ranger. It didn't go well. My abilities was spread out to everything wlmost equal with exception of strength. And i had a pickaxe... Yeah, it really didn't go well)))

[@nicholasmann4480]

Sorry for the comment spam but just saw your 250 patreon tier. Youre so cool for the "1 purchase and you and your friends can play." It feels supporter friendly. You get your $ and i just think its fair. Youre such a cool dude. Tysm

[@chriss5599]

Good job on adding the fun and flavor into this video my man. Glad to see it 💜

[@Nonat1s]

That means a lot! Thank you! It was a lot more work than I usually put in, but I'm glad to hear people enjoying it 💙

[@arkenlyl]

Magus was my first PF2e class in a 1-13 homebrew game in the Mwange Expanse. I usually play either full casters, rogues, or gish-style characters in fantasy games, so the Laughing Shadow subclass seems made for me, and is still my favorite subclass in the game thematically. I got to do everything I like in these games at once! I'm also someone who enjoys rolling lots of dice and big numbers when I hit hard, and my dice luck is (usually) above decent, so I had a lot of fun with Magus even though I made some beginner mistakes in my build and spell selection, kept forgetting to use my Distracting Spellstrike feat, and had a couple bad fights where my luck turned against me. Everyone at the table except the GM was new though, so we were all learning together. Unfortunately, one of the other players was an alchemist and he had a really hard time feeling useful in combat and understanding how his abilities worked properly, so much so that around halfway through the game he switched to being a Champion and had a much better time.

[@noahs2k]

Four years ago when I first started playing pathfinder 2e I made the decision to play alchemist. After three years and twenty levels we reached the end of the campaign and I was left with the spreadsheet I made to keep track of all my items, lol.

[@flippystudios7933]

I found prepared spellcasting easier to get into because i can freely heighten spells if i prepare them at higher levels, and if i took a spell that didn't end up useful I can just switch it out. I do understand the appeal of spontaneous but the decisions hold so much weight that it was intimidating.

[@notalkmeimangyy]

i was honestly super fortunate to love doing my homework for ttrpgs when i made my first character an alchemist. i approached my chirurgeon expecting to be main healer, which in some ways i was, but i was nevertheless thankful for our party's cleric because, as strong as battle medicine is, having someone to offheal meant i could toss my ghost charges (playing an undead campaign) most of the time! didn't take me long to realize an alchemist is gonna use their entire repertoire of alchemical items and not just their specialty. don't regret it one bit though, super fun class and i would love to take a spin at it again (with some investigator sprinkled in....)

[@gibbcharron3469]

You know, after your alchemist video and whatnot, a list of some of your favorite alchemical items might be handy (and hopefully not as demanding as a full tier list).

[@JasonCorfman]

My first, and so far only, character is an alchemist. If anything, the remaster made alchemists simpler. They are now basically a spontaneous spellcaster with renewable spell slots with a few extra items thrown in for good measure.

[@alarkhar]

The barbarian's anathema is indeed easy to avoid - just don't take Superstition Instinct and you're golden (I kinda sorta think Nonat forgot that the remaster ditched most of the Barb anathemas)

[@SuperPerfomer]

Great content, keep at it!

[@lilwolff]

Post remaster I think the swashbuckler is one of the most beginner friendly classes. Penache just gives you some speed and lets you do finishers. You dont even need to hold onto it for skill and damage buffs anymore. Even if they don't know anything about the game if your player walks up to an enemy, does a bravado skill, finishers, they will do fine for low level games. Monks can be a little unfriendly but not because of the traits. Learning what the backstabber trait does is still still way easier than learning how to play any caster. The thing that makes monks a little more complicated for new players is that their action economy is too efficient. This can lead to: Turn one stance, then move, then flurry. Which is great but what if the enemy is still alive? Turn two: Flurry, then... not sure... attack?, then... not sure... attack? I've had new monk players just ask to end their turn with actions left because new players often don't know what to do with a third action after two strikes, let alone what to do with a fourth.

[@Tolluf]

New to pathfinder in general and I will be playing an alchemist in an upcoming game. Am I making a mistake? Maybe.. but I am just in love with the flavor!

[@Tzimisce]

I'd love to see a video on classes for primary healer and how to get away with it not just being cleric.

[@danrimo826]

Same. I would love to remove the cleric class from the world and would like to see workable alternatives.

[@tyrusdalet]

Forensic Medicine Investigator with Medic Archetype Chirurgeon Alchemist as a whole. Any Primal spellcasters with Natural Medicine and Healing Plaster Life Oracles Song of Healing on Bard

[@PaweMateuszBytner]

@@tyrusdalet Angelic Sorcerer

[@gabriel-rileydrouin8669]

My friends and I had an interesting conversation that made us pause the video so I'll watch the rest after I type this so I don't forget lol. We are evenly split, 3 agreeing with you and 3 disagreeing, that spontaneous casting is less complicated and easier for new players. We came to the conclusion that which feel more complex is entirely subjective(I know this is an opinion video anyway but thought you might find this take interesting!). Conveniently we have a new player in each camp to get their takes. We find some agree that the freedom of spontaneous casting is freeing while others find having to make the choice on the fly overwhelming and it feels more relaxed to go in with a plan. I think what fantasy you enjoy more will also heavily affect your choice as well because its always easier for the mind to accept and understand something it likes. Anyways, rant over, thanks yet another great piece of content. Your videos always make me think even after 18 years of ttrpg experience and I love sharing your videos with my friends.

[@Tgauchsin]

I’m playing a kineticist as my 2nd character in PF2e. It’s my favorite class so far. The creation was soooooo overwhelming. But it’s such an awesome class!!! I do have to say I’ve listened to your video on the kineticist 5-6 times. I feel comfortable with it but still have times I gotta check the rules.

[@Robalexwalter]

My 5e group converted to PF2e, and I picked a Water/Earth Kineticist to start our first campaign with. I agree, if you’re used to Pathfinder 2e, Kineticist is daunting. Thankfully researching TTRPGs & reading the rulebooks is my Happy Place, I find it very therapeutic. I had to buy a second copy of Rage of Elements because I wore out the binding of my paperback copy, and I had my character planned out through level 5 at the first session. 😅 I think if you’re brand new to PF2e, Kineticist weirdly is easier to start with, because it’s bending rules you don’t know yet… 💯😅

[@jmangan17]

17:42 THANK YOU..... i try to never let things like that bother me, but for some reason today it was making me lose my mind. you got it right before started screaming in tongues and throwing stuff around my office. also, awesome video.

[@june4976]

Thanks, this will come in very handy for two of my players for our new Tian-Xia-based campaign.

[@rh3280]

My first ever character was an alchemist, and I fully agree with it's ranking

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

I think the Psychic isn't that bad, mainly being a cantrip caster with metamagic and psychic rage, but then the subclasses they made were just so frustrating for a newcomer. Would've loved more head empty simple blaster subclasses

[@SuperEagle112]

My first character in Pathfinder was a Magus…. I was really curious but hesitant. Luckily the GM and his assistant (yes we had a guy running music and noises for our adventure under Otari.) were very used to the Magus and helped me very much. It’s one of my favorite classes and I’m still a big fan.

[@LyricalAbuse]

When i was first introduced to TTRPGs it was by a friend who was in a level 3 AV group, i spoke with the GM and decided my first ever character would be a Goblin Gunslinger.... boy were those crits great. I personally decided on Gunslinger after devoting myself to learning the mechanics of the game, when i went into my first session i knew my character inside and out as well as a large portion of the game mechanics too (yes i watched like 20+ videos and read the core rulebook front to back)

[@RobynJamner]

I am playing as a Summoner in my first ever P2E game and I am really enjoying it, but I spent a TON of time researching (including watching your video guides) and I don't think it would have worked for me otherwise. She is a spooky spellcaster and her eidolon is the ghost of her father, who was a monk before he died

[@Sumting-r7r]

I'm a new player (well lvl 8 now), chose fighter bc I wanted something simple. Having a great time. Went with polearm bc I thought I could do something interesting with range and attack of opportunity (you can!). Also leaned into tripping a great way to debuff the enemy. And took battle medicine so he can help with healing. So they are a simple class, that you can keep building on to them. Since they just naturally hit and crit a LOT, you can also put resources in to making them goodball arounders. Definitely recommend.

[@jamesk2325]

You can't dissuade me from playing an alchemist if I ever get a pf2e party nonat

[@williamedmonds-gx7sq]

For prepared spell casters (I have been playing 20+ years) I make 3 lists; combat, town, or exploration. Its more prep but makes picking spells easier for me.

[@rmg480]

33:09 another issue with magus is that half the damage it deals with spellstrike is from a spell, and spell damage tends to be extremely volatile, as most is just dice. Magus can deal insane amounts of damage with just a spellstrike, just as well as they can do extremely mediocre damage even with a crit if they roll low, it is very luck based honestly, but when a good setup + spellstrike works it feels awesome. Also, who doesn't like the classic gish archetype?

[@littlelemonaide4223]

I'd probably put the investigator higher. Being a mix of rogue and alchemist, they've also got alchemy, though a bit less complex, and they use the alchemist's formula book which acts just like a wizard's spellbook where they need to both learn and prepare extracts. Yes, there's an investigator talent that cuts it down to one round, but it uses your inspiration points and you don't even have access to talents right away. It normally takes a minute to prepare extracts, so if you plan on using them during combat they have to be prepared beforehand. I'd at least put them above the wizard for this reason and for the wall of confusing text Investigator was my first class for any ttrpg and I didn't fully understand what I was doing until the sixth session where I had spent time between sessions to basically rewrite my character sheet so that I understood it far better and simplified any text to what was actually necessary. It probably also helped that I had previous dming experience. I can imagine it would probably be even more difficult for someone completely new to the game

[@solkanar33]

Going to play an alchemist in an upcoming campaign! A lot of work, but so flavorful! Now I'm even more excited! LOL

[@Athorment]

Playing a psychic right now. Went through a few dnd wizards, but also PF's wizard and cleric so Psychic was super easy to build and play. Amping is like cool unique meta magic and unleash psyche can come in clutch like a limited rage. I wish i could get "Brain drain" to be much more common in the game loop. It would be super cool to get spell slots or focus points back from "stealing" them from the enemy. lol

[@CalypsoTheWanderingStar]

I'm glad I finally got around to watching this, it's a great video I'll definitely be sharing around to help people out :D

[@Morneir]

The same beginner who took Kineticist for his first game (Strength of Thousand). I broke through the whole creation, and then I also read the further progression and roughly figured out what would happen next. In general, yes, for someone who has not played Pathfinder 2e, it is difficult to create a character, but how easy it is then. And I was seriously considering an alchemist for my first character...

[@ghostyuki-kfpinquisitor1038]

On the gunslinger topic, it's probably also the class most reliant on your allies and party comp. If they can support you properly, you'll crit enough to feel good. If they can't then you're gonna feel like dead weight a lot of the time. Bows have the same problem to a lesser degree. Part of this being ranged characters don't always have a way to off guard an enemy. For monk, another issue with the stances is a lot of the uniqueness can come from the follow-up feats instead which people won't always look at. One bit that spontaneous casters have to deal with that prepared doesn't is signature spells and having to learn spells at heightened levels instead of automatically being able to cast them Also if you find yourself thinking there's too many options. Come up with a concept for the character or what kind of build you want then pick the components that accommodate that. 80-90% of those options probably have nothing to do with what you want to do.

[@hammerspace8866]

I'd say that the sherlock holmes movie from 2009 displays how the investigator's device a strategy works. The telltale batman computergame also gives me the same vibes.

[@TaleNodati]

I played an outwit ranger with a crossbow. FA to gunslinger, and go arbales. Yes your damage is lagging behind. But go for charisma and you'll have a very versatile character.

[@ZaberFangAT]

So, before I finish the video, I'm going to hazard a guess; #23 is the Oracle? EDIT: I had forgotten about the Summoner and Psychic. I was prepared to disagree with the Alchemist, but the points made are pretty good.

[@Gristoufle2]

@nonat! Video idea: Tier list of classes that can do really well with a party composed only with 4 of this class! With basic build idea for each member, and objective criterias like you usually do. Maybe using a list of role each member fills (SwingRipper "best party" video lists those roles if needed).

[@Logetastic]

Gunslinger elemental armor also requires an extra action to activate before shooting in additional to loading.

[@Alhana_E]

Oooo, Paranoia!!! Such a fun game!!

[@undrhil]

I'm still waiting on the video with the list of every alchemical item in Pathfinder 2E

[@roberthenry424]

I'm playing my first Pathfinder 2 character right now actually! I've got a Tiefling Magus going on, and our DM is using the Free Archetype rule, so so far I'm archetyped into Wizard and just getting into Gunslinger. (In case it's not obvious I'm a Starlit Span Magus and I use a Dueling Pistol and it's great.) I'm having an absolute blast. The action economy is a little tricky but I got a wand of haste and that's sure helping. Next character I make I definitely want to try out an Oracle (Mystery of Flames). I love the concept. And honestly I'm not even worried about the Cursebound Trait, it'll just be like... okay so I've got some persistent damage that I can't get rid of... so... OW OW OW OW OW ARE THEY DEAD ARE THEY ALL DEAD YET ARE THEY DEAD YES THEY ARE OKAY MEDITATE 🙏

[@thorlocks7818]

I agree with most of your selections, and I understand why you put them in the order you did.

[@mikethewreck]

Great video, sending it to a new player in our group!

[@craftyplayz8150]

I’m a completely new player to pathfinder because I accidentally joined a pathfinder game instead of a dnd game and decided to just role with it. Wanted to play a spellsword since they aren’t really represented well in dnd, so I choose to play a magus. It take me 2 and a half days to figure out the rules of Pathfinder, Character creation and how to build properly by myself but was it worth it? Yeah. Does make me wonder, if I had chosen one of the other classes that you said was harder, how bad that would’ve been. Also as a personal note coming from dnd, the hardest thing for me while trying to build the character was understanding that skill feats generally aren’t combat related as opposed to dnd where many are. I probably only had this issue though because I did my research alone.

[@andiel7043]

Bonk is slang for sex in the UK the Barbarian section was entertaining for a different reason that planned. Great vid

[@BlueTressym]

I'm glad to know I wasn't the only Brit thinking that every time he talked about 'bonking people'.

[@polbecerra7918]

Even I wouldn't rank them in this specific order, I generaly agree with your list except for the rogue. From my experience, the rogue is a bit more complicated because of its survavility in combat. It has less HP (8 per level plus CON is not a priority in general for rogues) than most martial and worst deffense options than other martials, making it easy to kill in comparisson of others. I belive that this simple fact make it a bit more complex. As you mentioned on the video, having bad luck punishes some classes like the gunslinger and magus, but a bad luck with the GM rolls punishes harder the rogue. Finally, you mentioned that the wide variety on skills makes it easier for beginners, but I think that they can be overwelmed by everithing to choose from, specially at lvl 2 and so on with the skill feats and skill ugrades.

[@iandixon1615]

what's the video game he mentions/shows at the start of the video?

[@LadyLagsalot]

I'm only 15 seconds into this video and you already have my like with the fridge joke

[@Tsukiy0mi_moongod]

I tried playing air kineticist as my first class. It felt pretty simple both during creation and playing. Except for one confusing part. I had absolutely no idea what items I need besides better light armor

[@travisa.3141]

15:15 Always remember: Bards do the most damage.

[@ye-roon]

I looked up your video for the champion because of this video. You're wearing the same shirt in that, i needed to look twice if it wasnt the same video lol :)

[@Raczoon]

All I know is my satyr half-dragon Wild druid with his various magic beast forms, playing AS an animal companion to a werewolf beast lord NPC, while each have further animal companions of our own, has been quite a crash course. My GM seems to thrive on keeping me guessing at my own stats and abilities. Fun though!

[@Thunderage03]

Thaumaturge is what I started with, and damn did it help me learn the system. Sooo much reading.

[@rh3280]

I just started a PF game for my friends who all never played PF2 before and only 1 of them made the first half of the list... He is a gunslinger

[@fawcettliquesttv]

I'm new to pathfinder. haven't played a game, but had been making characters for fun and I love that all the classes I have the most interest in are in the "not recommended" area, lol. Witch, Summoner, Psychic 😭 I'm trying to get myself to dig into a martial, but finding a backstory and flavor for a martial just don't hit. I'm also someone that in 16 years of playing video games like WoW has never mained a melee class. If I do try one, it will surely be a ranged martial.

[@nathanielhurley3960]

I am playing alchemist in my first ever pathfinder game. Bombs away

[@donalddouds6033]

Luckily I am no stranger to TTRPGs as my first PF2e character was a Summoner. Was a blast.

[@makaramuss]

I think kineticist gets super easy if experienced helps new player to create character all you have to do is ask them what they want to do and make them select element depending on that request.

[@esther6138]

nonat: the kineticist is very simple to play *ranks it 20th out of 23 on the simplicity scale* i... disagree??? kineticist: pick 1 of 6 elements you find thematically interesting, or 2 elements of 6 you find thematically interesting, then pick either 1 of 4 feats for 2 different elements, or 2 of 4 for the single element, then pick another 1 with another 4 options available sorcerer: pick 1 of 9 subclasses, pick 4 cantrips from a minimum of 15 cantrips, then pick 2 1st rank spells from a minimum of 23 spells. and deal with spell slots your "they're really easy to understand" really should have bumped them up... 14 spots on the list edit: wait. i vastly underspoke on the amount of spells. that was if you're just using player core, but you'd by default be using player core 2 as well if you're playing a sorcerer i guess though. the sorcerer kind of teaches you spellcaster mechanics, which lets you have better understanding for other classes later, whereas kineticist only teaches you kineticist. but i don't know if that's enough to bump it down so far

[@adrasteiaturing5054]

Great video. Still frustrated that sinclairs has not pisted another update and that you arent plugging the release digital Sinclair's content by including those classes in these lists.

[@Enkidu659]

8:04 me and my outwit ranger: aaww...

[@mikegould6590]

My first PF2E character was a Barbarian (pre remaster). Underwhelmed. It was basically bitch slapped to death by lowly skeletons. Second character? Gunslinger. Also underwhelming. Rare crits meant little contribution. Third? Swashbuckler. Super fun. All you have to do is be daring. Do something courageous/unwise, or trigger your "panache" somehow. Then stab. Enjoy. Honestly, very simple, rewarding, and fun

[@christopherg2347]

Try the Gunslinger with a weapon that isn't critical hit dependent. Like a Crossbow. Or a high damage gun without fatal.

[@hammerspace8866]

I think you're ranking the alchemist to high on the list, You pick a couple of potions to prepare each day, you can quick alchemy any potion in your potion book a number of times each combat. And can make quick vials that have an effected added by your subclass. So you have daily potions, encounter potions and quick potions. And you have a potion book to pick your daily and encounter potions from. Not that different from a spellcaster. Most of the work is in knowing your potions like a spellcaster would need to know their spells. 1 cheat sheet with your potions is all you need.

[@amwoodco3049]

Hey! Paranoia! I love that game. So, how about a list of Archetypes to make classes simpler. For example, I know one that makes a Cleric easier than a Sorceror: Flexible Spellcaster.

[@rattatooi]

The thing for gunslinger and Magus about them missing...how come that only applies to those two classes? Wouldn't missing feel bad on everyone? New oracle doesn't feel good. The old one felt more like I was doing a risk with high reward thing. New oracle is like...risk for the sake of the class says you get a curse. It's so flavorful but when in combat it just feels like meh now. Summoner, yeah that really does feel like you're playing to whole characters but god dang is it fun once you understand it. Still one of my most fav classes I've ever played, not just in pathfinder, but in any TTRPG. Would not recommend to a new player! Great list! Corn flakes!

[@HouseOfMinions]

Did you pick up the Shameless Request skill feat while you were gone? Still love your content though man

[@PathfinderPhD]

Looking at running a kineticist. Veteran rpg player, new to PF2e. Played 3rd Ed D&D so I am familiar with complex systems.

[@blondswanson]

Corollary question that I'd like answered. I introduce a lot of people to Pathfinder, and ttrpgs in general, and it's not uncommon for me to be running a one shot for 4 people who have never played before. What would your ideal party make up be for accessibility and balance? 4 fighters feels silly.

[@Aktuvor]

Alchemist is pretty hard but after playing since the whole OGL debacle I still can't get a hang of summoner while alchemist feels much more natural in the system. It's probably me though. Good list in any case

[@mikkelvoigt]

is this with player core 2 in mind ? haven't read what the changes, if any, are for the alchemist

[@NinesTempest]

While I think thaumaturge is somewhat understandable after doing the reading, I recently had someone jump in a campaign and it's her first time in pf2e and being a thaumaturge was... an experience for her, lol. Very confusing, especially when you use it with Age of Ashes, which isn't really written for weakness abuse like how a thaumaturge uses them.