Lords of Ragnarok and the Decline of Crowdfunding

[@awakenrealms]

Hey! Rules claryfication from our side, as there seems to be 3 bigger rules misinterpretation in the video: Great Jarl Victory Condition - A player wins the game immediately when they have control over all Regions in 3 Lands. It is stated in the video that capturing and defending approximately 9-11 Regions with 6 Armies is almost impossible, suggesting a possible misinterpretation. The game ends right away when the player meets the victory condition, and it is possible to perform up to 6 Army Activations during the player's turn. In extreme cases, a player can start their turn with 3 Regions and still achieve the Great Jarl victory condition. Slayer Victory Condition - A player wins the game immediately by slaying the Boss (Loki). The condition has been deemed impossible to fulfill. While it may not be the most frequently achieved win condition and requires the player to adopt a different playstyle, it is definitely achievable (based on hundreats of playtests). Even without having maximum statistics (5 Might and 5 Wisdom, with 6 being the limit), a situation may arise where the player defeats Loki with a single turn. Starting the Hunt with 10 cards, it is possible to inflict all 5 Wounds at once, using 2 cards for each. It is possible that a misunderstanding of one of the Hunt's rules in this particular case made this mechanic more challenging, but it is difficult to judge based solely on the video. Ragnarok - Fulfilling the Requisites conditions triggers the start of Ragnarok during the game. There appear to be two misinterpretations here. Firstly, Requisites are only checked during the Build Monument Special Action. Secondly, while Ragnarok is active, the remaining victory conditions can still be met. These two clarifications can significantly impact the perception of the game and balance the occurrence of specific victory conditions.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Hello! Thanks for offering these clarifications, we think clarity is really important, and on our part we'd like to also, in response, clarify a few things here. 1) The great jarl condition: We did not misinterpret the rules, we understand that this is possible. We went for brevity in the review, but the long and short of it is that in our experience, this just didn't happen, because players had two strongly defended territories (usually with temples) locking everything into a stalemate. We think the fact that the game encourages this is a shame. 2) Slayer Victory Condition: We did not misinterpret the rules, again in our experience this didn't happen. We refered to another review in the video, in which the reviewer also did not experience this happening and refered to reports of it not being achieved by other players. We understand that this "can" happen, but seems very reliant on a good card draw, which feels like a very arbitrary way to win a 2.5-3h game. 3) Ragnarok - This one we regret very much wording the way we did and we apologize for using the word "immediatly." We're happy to say that we did not misinterpret the rules our plays, but that word implies that ragnarok conditions are fulfilled as soon as they happen and it was a poor choice of words, so, again, apologies. We understand that once ragnarok triggers other win conditions can still be met, however we think that once this happens - not trying to take territories adjacent to YGGDRASIL is silly, as it would lose you the game by default. When Efka says, "the other victory conditions no longer matter," he refers to the flow of the game and changing priorities. We've also found that this very last round when people do start scrambling for things is when the game finally comes alive, shame it's such a brief moment within the playtime.

[@awakenrealms]

@@NoPunIncluded Ok! Based on the wording we thought those rules were misinterpreted. Clarified then ;)

[@MinistryProductions]

@Awaken Realms.... Also replied to the thread on BGG.... Thanks for commenting and clarifying these rules Awaken Realms. I am wondering if the player feedback so far has lead to you guys considering an errata for boss battles and Loki? It does seem a pretty tough way to win which is a shame because monster hunting is a lot of fun within the game. Winning this way in Lords of Hellas was arguably too easy and it feels Ragnarok has gone the other way and no longer viable. Thanks for the input 😁👍🏻🥒

[@ernie3249]

The wording of Awakened Realms rules, due I think to poor translations, is the primary reason Is topped backing their games, and got refunds for ones I had in the pipeline last year. As beutifal as the games often look, not being able to undertsand how to play is never worth it.

[@TheHouseofPanda]

⁠they need to fire their translator. The rulebook for Nemesis alone is atrocious. I love that game, but it took way too many plays to get all the rules right. After over 24 plays, I'm still not always sure we're getting it all right. And it's not just translation. The layout is chaotic. With some actions and game mechanisms, you have to search all through the book to get the whole picture. You think the answer you're looking for is on page 8? Nope. Check page 15. Which will send you back to page 4. It's as if they have yet to realize that the best minds for creating the game aren't always the best minds for explaining it clearly and concisely.

[@idontevenknow9758]

I think we are falling into the same trap of video games as well. These games are getting bigger and bigger, yet I barely have enough time to dive in. Videos games are massive, and many now require a huge time sink to get into the "fun parts" (especially in the AAA stuff). Board games are like video games now, expensive and require time to learn but the market is time poor adults and families. It's become more and more off balance it feels like. I cannot justify buying a massive boardgame for $200+ that ends up being a dud and then I can't even sell it because the marketplace will be overcrowded with people trying to ditch a lemon.

[@colbyboucher6391]

I've mostly looked at this hobby from the outside in for years, and I've felt the same way for a looong time. I see a lot of games pretty explicitly trying to emulate video game-like mechanics, and I can't help but consider that a lot of current board games develop electronic versions of themselves to speed things up. Like, do I really want to manually simulate an NPC's AI by shuffling cards? No, I seriously don't. Most of these games don't seem to lean into the advantages of sitting around a table with friends, in fact, they seem totally disinterested in it. Having a few games like that is fine, I'm always up to play BattleTech, but I'm surprised more designers don't focus on being tight, fast and easy to pick up. There's literally not enough board gamers in the world for them all! And please god less theming. I get that theming is cool but sometimes I wonder what was wrong with Backgammon.

[@jonathanfryer1319]

Good comment.

[@JohnClem56]

@@colbyboucher6391 "And please God less theming. ...what was wrong with Backgammon" Clearly you've never played Marvel Backgammon... 🤣

[@idontevenknow9758]

@@colbyboucher6391a great example of this issue I think as someone who is a board game and video game person is darkest dungeon, when I saw they were making a board game version my jaw dropped. The video game has VAST amount of context, steps, items, characters, that I cannot imagine how that would translate to a board game. Even frost punk got a board game, so all that resource management that the game took care of the extremely mundane stuff so you can focus on making smart choices that will impact your settlement now it all on you. Video games streamline the mundane. Board games are just meant to be fun dives for a few hours. A great example of a fast but semi complex board game is betrayal in the house on the hill. It’s just enough to keep players engaged but they streamlined a bunch of fluff to keep the pace moving.

[@reallyidrathernot.134]

Yeah give me a 4 hour game of just the good bits, every time. Or, a game like Slay the Spire or FTL which again is just 40 minutes of good game play - with the option of going back to if you want.

[@velotrampler7459]

This is how Quidditch players must feel, unless they are the seeker

[@jakeholmes9296]

Haha just made a very similar comment.

[@cableshaft]

Haha yep. Getting the golden snitch seems to be the only thing that really matters in the game and everyone else is just faffing about, if the books are anything to go by.

[@ianpatrickclarksr4074]

wait … is elijah wood in harry potter?

[@Brighton24601]

7:40 The idea of playing a sport and then inserting another sport that is used to win the game is a pretty accurate description of Quidditch

[@benjaminwyatt3778]

It would actually be a cool mechanic in a coop game, one dude railing away at a super tough task, separate from teammates

[@pepperypeppers2755]

​@@benjaminwyatt3778 That wouldn't adress the issue. However, If that idea appeals to you, invite a friend over, share a couch, and play two completely different games. It's a good time, and you don't have to fund a kickstarter to do it.

[@benjaminwyatt3778]

@@pepperypeppers2755 not really. Quidditch players are playing the same game with the same ultimate goal. It could be fun if say, your other two teammates worked on securing the lands, and you worked on trying to defeat a (beatable) big bad. Especially if you could support each other here and there. Like the lands being secured opened up resources for the boss beater and beating a minion boss opened up resources for the land grabbers. And ultimately, if the land grabbers were on their last leg and losing, they’d be rooting you on as a last chance to win…and vice versa.

[@humandave5417]

Catching the snitch ends the game and scores 150 points, not wins your side the game. So it's entirely possible to catch the snitch and lose so its not really a good analogy.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

I always thought quidditch was stupid af.

[@iphatbass]

Tom's chaotic energy is starting to infect other board game channels too 😂😂😂

[@cryptidtd7294]

You mean Elijah

[@judgemario]

@@cryptidtd7294That was a great joke.

[@WaterTastesLikeNo]

@@cryptidtd7294 _Diet_ Elijah

[@rakino4418]

I hate this boy and I'm never watching a "youtube" again

[@iphatbass]

Where's Quinns? Only he can stop him! 🤣

[@RvLeshrac]

Don't forget that this entire game - all the expansions, the minis, etc. - can actually be placed into only two of those boxes, with even just a crappy homemade foam insert. There's no reason it needs to have so many boxes.

[@JamesDenholm]

Oh, there absolutely is a reason. It's to sell them individually.

[@Carighan]

@@JamesDenholm Also to make them seem worth more money.

[@garathon66]

Well I've avoided any big mini-heavy KS for a number of years now and am glad, but I wanted to say I met Elijah at UKGE 2 years ago while he was trying to find his table and he's a lovely man I mistook for Tom. So another informative video here.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Who's Tom?

[@garylangford6755]

Idk why npi still back any games with miniatures. Always results in a hate video... actually making an entertaining video is a pretty good reason

[@dustmagnet]

Wtf you on about, they couldnt get enough of ankh, oathsworn, and guards of atlantis?

[@Talliesyn]

@@garylangford6755 dunno man, maybe bc of expectations? I for one have enough of always positive "every game is great" reviews. It's good someone talks about those games for what they really are. And if nothing else they're fuckin expensive plastic.

[@mattrodgers1663]

The sad thing is that all I really wanted from a sequel from Lords of Hellas was an improved rulebook and something to tighten up the playtime a bit.

[@lordpappanqui]

Just like I wanted a Pepsi.... just a Pepsi..... :) LOL!!!

[@raoulinho82]

A common houserule for LoH is simply to let the monsters attack first, to have the "hunt" being a little more difficult. But in all honestly, I have not played LoR at all and LoH was a long time since it hit the table. I love the presentation in these games, but there are "better" games out there. :/

[@blaisestudios7382]

@@lordpappanquiWow S Tendencies? You got that on cassette, or is it just a throwaway line you heard somewhere?

[@JMS1138]

Heck yeah, Starcraft/Forbidden Stars for one, how hard is it for someone to make a spiritual successor to it @@raoulinho82

[@lordpappanqui]

@@blaisestudios7382 I have it on vinyl. :D

[@hunterbarella8402]

As an apprentic game designer, I've learned so many times that concise, limited and direct play is often better than expansive, huge and tons choice gameplay which really slows down turns and fun for all players.

[@ungabungabunga]

I've written a couple of project games before and it's definitely always bad to execute a concept loosely to satisfy test players feature creep than it is to just accept that you're not being that other game they want to play

[@hunterbarella8402]

@@ungabungabunga literally 😭😭

[@technoartfest8708]

I learned from video games , that if you give too many options ,too much freedoms to the players on how to beat the game ,they will become bored very fast ,aside of the problem that the designer lose control of the game of how they wanted it to be played . In the case of Lords of Ragnarok , it seems the solution to this broken gameplay issues , is to precisely limit the game victory conditions ,so that in an area control game , controlling do matters and not allow people to "win" with shorcuts. The best way to learn how to make great games , including board games is to observe others jobs,, how they do it , and try to do the good things others do right , that you liked and avoid the things you don't. IF there is a game that i believe needs to be mandatory for every designer to learn from it , that will be CHESS , a game that exist since the very first human civilization and that is very simple to know how it plays , but it takes a life time ,to become a master on it. There is never two games that are equal to each other , and you always learn something new in playing against experienced people. i would like to see more Area control games ,where area control actually matters , but also positioning too . Chess is the ultimate Area control and area positioning in my opinion and wish there was games that took what they did with Chess to a whole new level into a board game . in any case good luck with your game designer career and for sure you learned valuable information in the above review of lords of ragnarok. What not to do.. hehe.. i think it can be house ruled to fix the game and make it more fun. @@hunterbarella8402

[@zenithquasar9623]

Especially, if your "gameplay options" that you create become redundant.

[@kaikaganishu1565]

I ve played LoR quite a bit since I got it, and while our group isnt a big fan, a lot of negative things you stated are factually incorrect, or dont happen like this in normal gameplay. And I agree with you on some points of criticism, but you misrepresent too much to say I agree with you here, sorry. Examples: You dont need to defend 9 territories with 6 units. Land grab victories, while certainly too hard (I agree here) are achieved the very moment you control three lands, and that is when you pushed in and won the fights. You can EASILY grab 3-4 regions in a single good turn after you built up your forces and cards. Loki isnt unbeatable - I have in fact won a 5p game by boss kill. Once more, its too hard in relation to 5 temples, but thats it. Then, when Ragnarok triggers, the other win conditions are STILL IN PLAY! A 5 temple win is really easy when everyone rushes to the middle. It doesnt change the victory condition to Ragnarok only. And there are more, I am sorry to say.

[@darthkt]

Thanks for this, I agree that this review (and others) run off the road a bit. I like Kwapinski’s games so I bought this on a whim at my FLGS. I have only played 1 game completely. It has beautiful table presence with colors and images, I like the building the monuments and the runes, it’s quirky and fun, and I like it. The other person enjoyed it too. I can see if you kickstarted the whole project and waited for delivery you might have a different response, but I found $150 of value in it.

[@paulleins7531]

Agree with your assessment. The fact that there are four paths to victory is ESSENTIAL. It keeps the game in balance and building up, and then Ragnarok is the actual deciding turn - players should be positioned to make a play for one of the conditions by that point, and it's about having what you need to make that surge when it matters. Triggering ragnarok is the smart play for the player who isn't positioned to grab one of the other three wins, and relies on the other players gambling on the win they're closest to.

[@twarnold14]

I have not played the game, but I was also wondering if he was too critical. For example, he mentioned that defeating the boss is an objective the other players can’t interact with. Well, it sounds like they can. Trigger Ragnarok early. The fact that each 3 win condition has a smaller part that will trigger Ragnarok makes sense as it Ragnarok is ultimately a timer on the game. And getting closer to one of those 3 victories should be an indicator that the game is reaching its end. It’s not telling players they should stop having fun. It’s telling players they should be constantly working toward their win condition. I naturally can’t speak to the whole of the game. But his comments about the design being baffling wasn’t as baffling as he presented. I do think he has a point about games that sell themselves on miniatures and hours of bonus content. That gets to “putting the cart before the horse” territory.

[@clarkewithe]

Elijah Wood wishes he was Tom

[@THESP-rz3hg]

Remake LotR with Tom you cowards!

[@twentysides]

The only thing I want to see as stretch goals are expanded playtesting, professional rulebook editing, and a player reference sheet by Universal Head. Anything else pulls focus from the main product.

[@jamesjacobthomson6198]

The downfall of crowdfunding, and the rise of ... Tom.

[@vorsharkar]

Hello. I only played two times at Lords of Ragnarok. I won each time, one time by occupying 5 temples and the second, by killing two monsters and Loki. That's curious. It seems we don't play at the same game :)

[@shcon]

Dude... imagine making a game this big and gorgeous... then having a review like this.

[@fruehlingsobst8123]

Implying they actually care and are not just in it for the money...

[@ghstrdio]

I've played it 3 times and it is a great game. Lots of fun. Only complaint is I wish the reference cards were on a single one faced card.

[@m3ddl3r]

I fell for this one and have (hopefully) learned my lesson. Our experiences with the game haven't been atrocious but they've not been great either. This is not a game I will be keeping on my shelf and I will think extra hard before buying another AR kickstarter. Before this the only AR game I had played was Nemesis and that's one of my most popular games I own with my groups, so this seemed like a good back. Sad it didn't work out...

[@kaijuh]

I cancelled my pledge just in time. I saw the signs that this game was going to be a complete disaster and bailed out

[@KillboySlim]

More Elijah please - I loved him in Die Hard (Love the SU&SD cross pollination - Great stuff)

[@thumper8684]

If players had to gang up to defeat Loki, that could be cool. Then they could have some sort of face off between their heroes. Or the heroes get powers that help with battles.

[@matthendrickson5992]

I'm so glad I got to play the prototype for this. It allowed me to save a couple hundred bucks. Awaken realms continues to miss for me.

[@lobotomiseme1653]

I recently almost got got by the crowdfunding campaign for the Heroes of Might and Magic III boardgame, because I'm such a big fan of the videogame. I think my hard rule to never kickstart shit is working out well for me. Great video.

[@Berndr]

For me it has nothing to do with crowdfunding itself ... I regrettably did not back some games due to similar thinking ... then had a chance to play these games and absulutly loved them but the only way to buy them now was on ebuy for twice as much because there never was a retail version ... so the question is simple how much do you want it ... plus you can always sell it ! and yeah I would not have missed backing the Heroes of Might and Magic III for the world, I literally grew up playing it , and even if the game totally sucked which is not the case, it has been tested on many events... even If I was never to play it and keep minis as a decoration on the shelves I would still not regret backing that one.. I am actually really looking forward to painting minis probably more than playing the game :)! and yes I did go all in with Lords of Ragnarok, and if his review turns out to be true, it seems I will be selling my copy, but I don't regret backing it ...I backed it because it reminded me of Heroes of Land Air and Sea which I love! I am still waiting for my copy to arrive I am in the second wave :( ... but no worries cause just received Oathsworn, Zootycoon, and Castles of Burgundy so have already lot on my plate to play ...

[@lobotomiseme1653]

@@Berndr I'm really glad you enjoyed it! Maybe I'll look into it.

[@robrattley3902]

Nice to see Elijah and very glad i didn't back this one and generally avoid any games that contain boxes upon boxes of miniatures or so many hours of campaign gameplay that I'll be retiring before I'm finished.

[@rickcarson591]

"so many hours of campaign gameplay that I'll be retiring before I'm finished." Sounds like a good problem to have _if it's actually fun_. If it's just hard work then you're just signing up for a really poorly paying job with incompetent management :D

[@browe]

You 100% had me with Elijah's lack of backbone and "Greecy Lasers" 😆😅🤣 A truly on-point review from Efka, cheers!

[@twentysides]

Changing my backing strategies from getting everything for games that have a lot of potential to just getting core boxes has been immensely successful. I strongly recommend that. If the game is that good, the core box will be good. Doubling the cost to not meaningfully impact enjoyment, or worse, to overwhelm you each time you try to play it, is a bad idea.

[@NecrosTheDark]

If it was good then there is a good chance to get some of the addons in normal shops or a reprint of it later when you know you want more of it or not. Do not give in to your fear of missing out :-)

[@Ellie-rx3jt]

​@@NecrosTheDark If nothing else you can pretty much guarantee that not *everyone* will enjoy the game, and you can most likely pick up the expansions secondhand at some point. And if nobody buys the extras that might persuade game designers to make everything fit in the one box in future!

[@Milkymalk]

A "armies on a map" that I can recommend is Hyperborea. I played it only a handful times due to me not owning it and how hard it is for me to find players for this kind of game, but I had fun. It has a "deckbuilding mechanism" where you buy/collect colored cubes into a bag and draw them to feed your action tablet with.

[@CompressionPolice]

Pretty sure that was Elijah Wood

[@AlwayzFresh]

Darkest Dungeon was my last crowdfunded game purchase...probably forever. So many downsides to crowdfunding versus very few upsides. Retail is king for board games, especially since my local and online retailer has copies of every single successful Kickstarter anyways.

[@stefansibbes2440]

At first, conquering 3 lands seem impossible. But.... 1. You win instantly. You don't need to hold any territory to win. 2. Some lands exist of 3 regions. 3. Step 4+ mobilize amounts to a possible total of 7 army movements. Meaning you can achieve it from a position of holding 3 well defended regions with good access at the start of your turn. This seems doable.

[@patrickblue7024]

Always appreciate the insight, humor, and integrity. You are one (channel) of a kind.

[@charlietwoteas3676]

Love the Tom cameo. Totally agree on bloated kickstarter games that need more playtesting and design thought. My group played Nemesis Lockdown for the first time on wednesday and what a bloated fernickety overly fiddly and overly long experience that was. But at least you get a bunch of minis and tokens and like 5 different decks of cards.....🙄 Made me long for a good Knizia.

[@cableshaft]

I've stopped bothering with these giant dudes on a map games a long time ago for pretty much this reason (also I already have no more room for games, I don't need a bunch of giant boxes). Your recommened alternatives of Kemet and Inis are my favorite dudes on a map games (besides Memoir '44, which is my favorite), so excellent suggestions. I suspect I'd like Ankh too, just haven't played it yet.

[@stan.stawski]

'floating carrier bag that's trying to pass as a seagull' another brilliant line.

[@steeleye2112]

Lots of games fall into this trap of not prioritizing the idea of "Where's the fun" and thankfully I've dodged all but 1. Kickstarter is a hell of a gamble and everyone needs to be reminded of this. The only one I went all in on was Bardsung and although quite a few people weren't impressed, luckily I adore everything about it. I doubt I'd ever take the risk on another expensive kickstarter again though. Just too risky.

[@theblaznee]

Lords of Ragnarok is still one of my all time favourite games, and this didn't change my view. I will still highly recommend this as a fun game with excitement in each turn.

[@EdOuellette]

Seeing Bandwagonesque in the background makes you 100000% more credible on all things.

[@maddoctorx-zj1ee]

Hope they enjoyed it more than the game!

[@j3errym]

Totally agree and so pleased I only backed Oathsworn at Standee core box level and I am very pleased with it, though not impressed with the mystery box as no gameplay value and the wrong scale to use as a mini in other games I own. Just received Uprising Kings of Titans expansion and it's also a great game, great value masses of gameplay as opposed to masses of plastic, the acrylic standees are great. This year I have shunned many boardgame/skirmish crossovers due to the huge boxes of minis needed to get gameplay as I have no room or spare disposable income for boxes of plastic, for games that at their heart are board games and the plastic is cosmetic only, though I do enjoy TT skirmish games and do buy and paint minis for those games.

[@disposable157]

Oh there's a standee version? I'd be so much more into that ...

[@hermanturnip3984]

I fully backed Oathsworn and loved it, but that game occupied such a huge footprint on my shelves that I had to sell it off to free up some much needed room. Lesson learned, and I've stopped backing games full of bloatware.

[@j3errym]

@@hermanturnip3984 Mine all fits in one box and I don't feel I have lost anything gameplay, by having standee monsters, which look good and I have fully pain4ed Marvel Crisis Protocol collection, fantasy skirmish/dnd, Cyberpunk characters, Battletech etc.

[@victoramaralbucksaldanhada3463]

I almost spit my drink when the Tim Robinson clip showed 😂

[@Angeloflight444]

Thank you for sharing your experience of the game and reviewing it and sorry to hear it was such a mess.

[@MarkChee-k5h]

Thanks for the vidoe. I've played this game X3 times and did not enjoy any of the experiences. I thought it was just my lack of comprehension but your video confirms for me what I felt. I invested 333 Euro on this my first kickstarter (and probably last). The professionally painted characters arrived a few days ago and sadly I don't think they will ever hit the table. So far it's been 111 Euro per play, I really wanted this one to work but sadly it doesn't. There are sooooo many other games I could play instead of this - so into the dustbin of history this one goes. The worst part about it is even if I wanted to offload it I doubt anyone in Australia would give me $500 AUD in partial compensation for what I outlayed.

[@DoubleUpBrettspiele]

Damn, I was really sad to see that the game wasn't available to buy at SPIEL '23 today. Now I am glad. Thanks for saving my money. ❤

[@Talliesyn]

There's a 1 thing I am doing with my kickstarter pledges. Does not matter if I pledged all-in. I am only opening and playing the minimum to see if the game is coherent and works for me. I once fell this trap of unboxing everything and then selling it afterwards without making it all the way for core experience, with a loss. It was Tainted Grail og edition, I tried to like it.

[@styfen]

4:15 Reminds of when I learnt that the prestige armor/mini-campaign expansion for The Green Armor in Kingdom Death: Monster wasn't achieved during their development and that they were also not sure anyone could defeat the Level 3 Dung Beetle Knight. Mind you, that was a fledgling company back in 2014-15 ish and they've a much better approach to playtesting now. It coming from Awaken Realms in 2023 is absolutely mindboggling.

[@joseseptien]

Weird, because I really love the game! Is beautiful and so engaging, that as you go into it , you want more...

[@christopherchild4022]

This is why I never crowdfund anything (except reprints of games I already know I enjoy). Crowdfunding is just “this side” of being willfully duped.

[@mike_howes]

This was a fantastic review. Loved your critiques and really understood them. One of the best critiques of a game ive seen for a while

[@japanczyk]

the sad thing is that he got rules wrong, so some of those points are a miss

[@jonathanfryer1319]

I love your eloquence, insight and honesty. A gaming hero. I need games to be shorter and sweeter and... cheaper? I now focus on shorter and sweeter games - and solo games at least let me have more options of when to play.

[@Patricia_Taxxon]

i relate to the bewildered feeling of expecting safe mediocrity and instead getting jagged hostile incompetence, except for me it was watching the super mario bros movie.

[@jimvalentine8952]

Aww Dennis Hooper was great

[@luiscarlosqg]

Pretty bad movie.

[@Tennethums1]

I’ve only ever once delved into Kickstarter and it was for Lords of Hellas. This was back when I was just buying games faster than we could play them. The “get” was way grander than the “have”. When Lords of Hellas finally arrived I was like a kid at Christmas time. The amount of…stuff! It’s been years since I got it and we’ve STILL only ever played the base game. NONE of the expansion stuff. In fact, I’ll probably sell the game as I also realize now…it isn’t that great, really. I stopped buying games a while back and have sold much of my collection. I’m trying to whittle down what’s left to about 20 games. Thankfully, I came out of the other side of the “buy buy buy buy” addiction that many board gamers still have. I actually feel sorry for people with rooms FULL of games. Seeing all those shrink wrapped games, unplayed…the reason for people doing that is actually a tell tale sign of deeper problems.

[@Tennethums1]

@@ramonosuke Aye, much of it’s just a “box of toys” at this point. That’s not to say some great games are still coming out, but they are far and few between the other fluff that’s churned out every day, it seems. I mean, between DUNE Imperium, Orleans, Teotihuacan, Anachrony and probably 10 others…I’m good. It’s so awesome to play a game multiple times and to really delve deep into the strategy and meta side of it. Just done buying. An incredible feeling of relief and it allows me to focus on the HOBBY and not the COLLECTING. 👍

[@akhedena]

Your board game channel is a rare gem indeed. You combine insight, humor, and integrity in a way that is both informative and entertaining.

[@xenondoro8573]

10:15 Thank you! This point became clear to me after backing The Edge Dawnfall, which is actually an extremely good 1vs1 skirmish game but the 3 campaigns are simply undercooked and broken. They made a 1.5 kickstarter version where they promised to fix the campaigns, I backed it and tadaa they left the campaigns completely untouched and produced more plastic instead. Awaken Realms is constantly making these big, complicated games but clearly have no time to design and test them properly. CMON is also producing tons of plastic with unbalanced gameplay but their niche is to produce simple games which makes houseruling that much easier. Awaken Realms would do themselves a favour by adopting a similar approach and just hash out simple games a lá Zombicide while selling all the expensive plastic Kickstarter backers could dream of.

[@Tackleberry666]

I could never bring games like this to the table with my group. All the best to the ones that can.

[@krookodil5829]

If I remember correctly, there was a "have 3 lands" winning condition in Lords of Hellas also.It was really fun when you mentioned that it is impossible. Btw. I bought a used copy of Lords of hellas last year, it looked really cool with the minis. Since I usually don't play games with minis, that was actually cool. But in the end, we just played two times, because even Lords of Hellas was (for me and my game group) already a game, that doesn't connect its parts very well. As alternatives I could also recommend Circadians: Chaos Order or Root. I know Cthulhu Wars is a popular game in the area control genre, but I haven't played it yet.

[@treytechie]

According to some “game designers” with their hands in the youtube money pot - “there are no terrible or bad games, only poorly designed games”. That doesn’t seem to matter anymore when they flashbang you with fancy minis and colorful expansion boxes. Thanks for your video post.

[@sachagoytia9553]

We are a group of wargamers (and boardgamers) that like miniature painting and advanced games that include direct conflict and are NOT too EURO, our favourite is Rising Sun, and LoR seems like one of the few alternatives, Kemet could be there... maybe, but Ankh was not well received.

[@縞鰺-o3c]

I've actually mostly turned away from Kickstarter. The last two campaigns I backed were the reprint of "Uprising: Curse of the last Emperor" and "Nature Incarnate", the latest Spirit Island expansion, because the base game with all expansions the already exist is still my favorite game... and getting the Target-timed-exclusive "Horizons" would have been more difficult otherwise here in Germany. I specifically do not trust big multi-box campaigns... and as a bonus point I like to support my FLGS, that provides a great environment to play games and has also been a platform for me to find not only be people to play with privately, but also new friends. Luckily I never got burned too hard personally by any campaign. (Rising Sun was a good experience for me and my groups and I only backed the base stuff of Dark Souls.)

[@Deaddinoproductions]

Awaken Realms seems to have an ongoing struggle balancing their own lofty design philosophies with what real-life humans will actually enjoy playing.

[@augmenautus]

Lol Greecy lasers 😅 I loved that game.

[@thinusconradie4297]

Love the crossover with Shut Up and Sit Down!

[@stigmanz]

I've played only a few games of this, and I've seen Loki killed and a victory won by controlling 3 lands. This sounds like a review made by evaluating the rules in theory without actually playing. EDIT: I will admit that the quality of the expansions for this one pales in comparison to Lords of Hellas. The expansions for LOH were interesting and modified the game in unusual but fun ways, but the expansions for LOR failed in this regard.

[@jakeholmes9296]

It sounds like quidditch. A bunch of people are playing the game scoring points, then some person catches a golden ball the game ends and the amount of points they get usually makes the rest of the points not matter.

[@skancijan]

Great review, i wish we see more of those when campaign is live on crowdfunding, games on them are getting more and more expensive...i skipped this one, but i do own few AR games (Etherfields, ISS Vanguard, Castles of Burgundy), but its not only them, many companies focus on more "plastic" then game play sadly....keep up great work, kind regards from Croatia.

[@Girruuth]

The Good Thing (TM) about the Awaken Realms association with Castles of Burgundy is that CoB was already a successful, highly ranked game and the AR treatment was just a way to guild the lily and make some money while improving the games appearance. It's easier to miss with a new property and if you end up dropping 200+ on a miss well that can be disappointing.

[@nickadams8460]

Yeh I agree CoB was amazing and one of my best backs of the year. But of course I knew what I was getting. LoR however was my worst back EVER! It is a horribly mis-designed mess of poor mechanics. At first I thought it was just the poor rule book. But I spent 5 hours working that out fully. Then I realised on play 3 that it was just one of the worst game designs ever. But it is not without consequence for Awaken Realms or Adam Kwapinkski - I will never back one of their products again,nor buy a game designer by Adam. They have hit the bottom of my publisher and designer rankings now.

[@PRC533]

You won't see anything like this during a campaign because the companies (rightly so) only send prototype copies to content creators who agree to basically make a commercial, or "preview" in the popular term. Never forget that, first and foremost, crowdfunding is a business that is trying to sell you a product and they will use all the regular tactics to do so. This is doubly true from larger and well established companies like AR and CMON.

[@codydavis3100]

I generally enjoy AR games. I have Lords of Hellas and I still think it's a good "dudes on a map." Nemesis has some of the most cinematic moments in a game I've played. Tainted Grail had a great story, though it took some time to really understand how to tackle the game. I have Etherfields and ISS Vanguard and just don't have much time or people to play with. I do really want to play Vanguard though. I passed on Ragnarok because it didn't seem to do anything new and I don't think I'll be backing many AR games, not because of quality but mostly because of the campaign nature of most of their games.

[@Girruuth]

@@codydavis3100 I have played and enjoyed Nemesis a few times. I am not the biggest fan of the "dudes on a map" genre, and my game group has a hard time getting thru Campaign style games. I personally won't back any Campaign or DoaM games, just because I don't want to spend that kind of $$$ on games that won't get played, but that is a ME issue not an AR or any other publisher issue.

[@VaultBoy13]

I bought into Lords of Hellas which was an incredibly uneven experience. It's a case where they really just needed to cut one or two ideas to focus on best ones, and they'd have had one of the best troops-on-a-map games. When the Ragnarok campaign was running, it didn't look like they'd actually learned anything from the Lords of Hellas development. They were still running with an everything-and-the-kitchen-sink design. I enjoy some of Awaken Realms games, but I feel like their development cycle lacks critical feedback. Most of their games have some cludge that deters from the experience. Sometimes it's more significant than that. And, they're not applying any lessons learned when they develop sequels.

[@vinceA3748]

Excellent video. I learned a long time ago to stop chasing the minis. I was all gung ho over them, in the beginning. I ended up with big box games that I didn't like. I sold almost all of them. Now, I'm much more interested in game play. I'm perfectly fine with standees now. This is why I love games like Gloom of Kilforth. Small box game, with standees, that's fun to play, less expensive and easy to store.

[@davidmccarthy7562]

Great review; there was a lot of potentially confusing nonsense to get across and you aced it.

[@josephmelendez3327]

I backed their This War of Mine game ages ago, and it was so finicky and fiddly and hard to play through because of how it described actions and overall gameplay (or largely didn't) that I refused to back another of their games.

[@Edit-nk6nb]

Never understood the boardgaming communities obsession with Crowdfunding when there are so many amazing games in the world already. Seeing that pile of crap that will never be played cause the base game is bad just angers me, all that plastic for nothing.

[@MichaelButlerC]

I built up a small collection of ~30 (which is definitely not as many as a lot of people have) and they get so little play that I'm totally done buying any new games. I haven't quit the hobby, I have found groups that have huge collections amongst the members so I don't even need to bring any of my own games!

[@repertuaras]

It is a lottery ticket. Many get hooked and immediately buy another ticket in hopes of a win

[@koalabrownie]

Because you get free exclusive content in the KS, mostly, or expansion that won't hit retail. I have backed a few things but- won't do any more. I'd rather pay more money and get something right now than less money and wait a year and a half for it to arrive.

[@pfefferle74]

Quinns from Shut Up & Sit Down phrased it best in one of their podcasts: "People no longer buy a game to play it. They are buying into the illusion of playing it."

[@viktorgabriel2554]

the gaming industry dose the game paying for early access is the same thing and some people just want to play a fun game and are willing to give something a try people have forgotten that they have the power of the wallet and thus they have the choice

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Frankly, games that release so many thousands of expanded options before I even touch them whiff a bit of desperation. It suggests that the core box just couldn't be that good, if you need aaaaall this extra stuff to actually complete the design. At least with on-shelf purchases I can buy the game, and make it EARN the expansion - I can buy Twilight Imperium and if it gets a hundred hours of play and I enjoyed all three games of it, I can go get the extra stuff and see if that helps. If the game is really that good, it will see enough play to keep in print, and I will simply pay the premium when I choose to buy more.

[@leventeopelcz6203]

Northgard imo is also a good option as miniatures on board (risk) option.

[@huguesperruchot4653]

For solving the problems enounced here, I have modified the rules: 1/ killing loki does not end the game and he can be defeated with 4 points of damage on the 5 he has. The two victory conditions (temple and territories) remains. 2/ After a combat with a monster, player must have a minimum of combat cards equivalent of their score of wisdom. They can take some new ones if needed. 3/ After the ragnarok is complete (one turn), no need to be near Iggdrasil , players counts 1 point by region, +2 if a built temple, 5 by territory, 10 by killed monster , 1 by realm alliance et 20 if loki defeated This way it is a run to get power, alliances, territories till the end with the ragnarok PS: values for each goal may need to be furthermore tested.

[@jokerES2]

Part of me wonders is AR has a way to take the same components and tweak them to a viable, complete game (or if theres a 1.5 version in there with a few changed components). I do have to say, that seems to be the AR model. Make a game, tweak it a bit and produce a new ruleset, and make a passable game.

[@FoolishFishBooks]

Thank you for this review, Efka! The "must add more photogenic content at the expense of enjoyability" syndrome has defined Awaken Realms since the beginning. Admitting that a non-native speaker with a couple english lessons probably shouldnt be writing the rulebook AND scenarios might also help. Smh.

[@darthkt]

6:55 No - Ragnarok cards only flip during the Build Monument special action, they don’t immediately flip. The Ragnarok cards are really a timer, much like the day and night cards are in Mage Knight, making the need to upgrade fast and furious.

[@PRC533]

That doesn't invalidate the criticism that the only other realistic way to end the game is by potentially controlling the temples after they are built. This review is spot on that there is a number of mechanics in the game that just don't functionally add anything to the actual game aside from the chance to make miniatures. The boss kill might be viable if you had unlimited time to build up cards and stats, but you have to use those cards to get through the monsters first and then the boss is like fighting two monsters at once. As soon as we played our first game and I got to experience the combat for myself, I questioned whether or not it was even possible to defeat Loki.

[@japanczyk]

@@PRC533 It actually does, the boss kill is a viable option to win the game, the same applies to controlling 3 teritories...

[@PRC533]

@@japanczyk Both of those are possible, but not viable unless you have a table of people entirely not paying attention to what one person is doing.

[@Alchemist0234]

I've been following dragon eclipse (DE) campaign trying to decide to pledge. this video and latest few updates from DE campaign are making me decide against backing. DE campaign is adding more and more cost and backers who thought they were 'all in' are being asked for more. Im not convinced by gameplay videos i've watched either. I have 1st tainted grail and ISS vanguard with hundreds spent on AR games. Thank you NPI for your continued wonderful videos and integrity.

[@TheEpinema]

Always read the rulebook before you back anything. If there isn't one, ask if they will supply one. The red flags usually start by reading it or being refused it lol

[@thegremlin3194]

Totally had it with crowdfunding ,I have never been happy with the little I have recieved

[@The_Real_Danger_Mouse]

Fantastic opening. I was both fascinated and laughing aloud! And... Elijah!?🤣🤣🤣

[@BloodyRedBaron-u1x]

I've definitely become more discerning about backing games. I'm seeing too many big box games that are undercooked

[@mahna_mahna]

Surprise ITYSL reference! There was a CMON convention in my city recently (I know this isn't a CMON game, but it's CMONic). I couldn't imagine anything less interesting to my approach to board games.

[@kimmoruohoniemi7158]

Friend of mine got the whole set for this game, basically every darned box. I went to check the reviews and then pointed to him the stuff you raised here. He basically said you (and other critics) were clearly too stupid to understand the rules correctly. Well, as your answer to Awakenrealms comment here shows, you did not misread the rules or misinterpret them, you were in all points correct. I wish my friend good luck with the game tho, but suspect it will be one of those that are soon abandoned by his gaming group.

[@saveversus]

Man, Nordic bullet dodged. I was backing this until the last minute and changed my mind.

[@Aitor]

I agree with you. Crowdfunding is on a decline, despite some games making millions for some reason... hell, I just backed awesome "The Isofarian Guard" but I know, I won't back another game ever... in my entire life, even if I resurrect several times.

[@andyreichert499]

I’m always curious if it’s possible with all those pieces to make house rules that could result in a more enjoyable game.

[@DowntimeDad]

Exactly what I would do. With something like this, it's obvious you paid a lot of money for a lot of pretty miniatures and not much more. Time to house rule this game to something salvageable.

[@mdb45424]

I would ignore the ragnarock rule. That way you can maybe kill loki, if some players also goes that route. Another option would be a hidden win condition that is revealed a few turns in. So people would diversify their boatd

[@Alittlefruitgoesalongway]

​@DowntimeDad This is not a bad idea, but ends up not being very practical I feel. Extensively houseruling a large game like this to make it better is a huge time and effort investment. On top of that, it may be hard to introduce players to it. Unless you have a dedicated game group who doesn't mind house rules. Also considering that many people who would buy a game like this on Kickstarter likely also buy or have a lot of other, probably much better games to choose from and spend time on, means prioritizing fixing someone elses mess over simply playing something else.

[@DowntimeDad]

@@Alittlefruitgoesalongway Definitely agree. I'm just saying house rule if you already bought it. Otherwise, it's just a waste because the rules don't work as is.

[@amnesiai]

Remember when the cost to ship from china went back down, but board game companies didn't change lower their cost to ship? I remember cuz it's now.

[@robertthurman9866]

Thankfully I'm not drawn to much that is offered on KS. I seem to have a narrow field of interest and have only bought into 3 KS projects. 2 were fine, the third resulted in my KS' company going bankrupt as the games arrived at the fulfillment centers and have been sitting there for almost a year. I keep looking at KS projects and see slight variations of other games and a new edition of an older game with even more minis then before. For a board game anything over 30 minis sets off an alarm for me. I feel at that point the game company is going full FOMO on it's customers.

[@vascariz69]

ISS Vanguard is my favourite Awakened Realms game compared to Etherfields and Tainted Grail. Interested to see your thoughts.

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

Tremendous review and commentary on where the business of big games has gone. I am currently looking at the new Witcher Old World game system - and this one clearly expects you to buy the core game (for $110 in my Canada) but then buy another 1-2 "expansions" in order to get a decent gaming experience (ie reasonable variety in Monsters). Like way too many streaming services - the business model of continent-sized game systems will quickly exhaust the buying public.

[@zephyrstrife4668]

Honestly... I saw it in my FLGS and looked at the minis, I wasn't even bothering with the game behind it because I thought the minis were really nice... But with a video like this out there, it makes me glad I was only looking and not actually investing in a game that didn't quite hit the mark.

[@masonpellazar6543]

Even when I backed Lords of Hellas I kept thinking the whole time "Man I just wanna read the graphic novel version of this."

[@Drewbe821]

This video was in my recommendations. I have no regrets for subscription.

[@jecabreradc]

Thanks for the candid take!

[@drew-id]

Crowdfunding did it to itself. I'm on year 3 of waiting for a board game I've already paid for.

[@ronaldojuniorr]

Congratulations brother. I’m so tired of way of business with thousands mini boxes. Cheers from Brazil!

[@radiosonicfan1726]

I miss the days where I could count on two fists the number of big publishers: Rio Grande, Z-Man, Fantasy Flight, Queen, etc. When they had skin in the game, the were more likely to publish quality games and support them long term. Now quantity of games surpasses quality. Good games have a harder time seeing a second print run. I still think of my best games are my flashy nor contain half a barrel of oil in plastic pieces. Pragmatic I tend to like crowd funding when someone prints an older out of print game.

[@jimw2633]

Fully agree with this review. I had an all-in Pledge of this game and had a very bad feeling immediately after the first game. Since I didn't have any interest to play it again I sold it... Good to see that I wasn't wrong.

[@Kelfuma]

Hey, you got a haircut!! Nice. I own and love the predecessor game Lords of Hellas. Saw the campaign for Ragnorak but ultimately didn't pledge because Hellas is enough for me.

[@djfusion2808]

The last big box game I backed was the Oathsworn 2nd printing and that’s mostly due to you guys giving it a good review.

[@benjaminbaker4168]

I would argue oathsworn fits that “miracle” category he alludes to. But it also didn’t add expansion after expansion. It has just one base game and then miniatures/superficial add ons. It’s true that so many of these kickstarters are just bloated messes. The great ones rise to the top. And there have been several great ones, but, it’s never a guarantee.

[@Santanilla]

Love this channel , never disappoints

[@SmokeRingHalo]

I was on the fence on this one but passed because it wasn't a true Lords of Hellas remake as I prefer that theme. So glad I did now.

[@Exozik]

La Famiglia is a really cool euro take on the area control. You should review it! The rulebook isn't great but the game is. Thanks for that great review!

[@MrSomebunny]

I LOVE La Famiglia. Such a hidden gem

[@meeksandgeeks]

Any chance the positive Awaken Realms review Efka teased is Castles of Burgundy Special Edition? Excellent review. The excessive crowdfunding discussion is something that needs to be brought up often in our industry.

[@primordialblob]

That was my immediate thought. I'm exceedingly happy with how that one turned out with all the add ons (aside from the 3d terrain)

[@4_Last_4]

Either that or Kings of Ruin