Norsk 15Ah Lithium-Ion Breakdown

[@Big_Friendly]

So I just commented on a Norsk Facebook post, and they were quick to respond. According to Humminbird testing, Lithium Ion batteries showed no significant drop in performance even down to 8.6V, which is why Humminbird chose to partner with Norsk. Here's a quote from their response: "The 'recommended voltage' you're quoting is for Lead Acid batteries. It doesn't apply to a Lithium Ion battery. Humminbird did EXTENSIVE testing of Norsk batteries and found they ran their fish finders perfectly down to 8.5 volts."

[@iceholepower8012]

Is that what they are saying now? lol! How does a sealed lead acid volt differ from a lithium volt? If that was the case then the hummingbird manual would break down the minimum voltage by battery chemistry but it doesn't because it is just bull shit battery salesman talk.

[@Big_Friendly]

@@iceholepower8012 that's the icy waters I'm trying to navigate. The Norsk social media person also claimed Humminbird would update the manual this summer with the differences between lead acid and lithium ion recommendations. According to Norsk social media, when lead acid gets down to 10.8 V, it's basically dead and lacks the necessary amps once below that level. But with lithium ion having a flatter power curve, it's still capable of supplying enough amps below that voltage level.

[@iceholepower8012]

@@Big_Friendly wonder where their data is and how come they have not posted it? I will probably make another video regarding this topic.

[@AlexTimm]

Great video! I learned quite a bit, thank you! I can't wait to see the other tests you put this battery through and the final tear down!

[@iceholepower8012]

Thanks Alex! Love the setup in the Black Hole! We should shoot a collaborate vid this season while ice camping!

[@MGMarineTech]

Man great info here!! Really bringing this technical data to light ! Will definitely be pushing this channel!

[@iceholepower8012]

Appreciate it! Just checked out your channel, good stuff. New sub here!

[@MGMarineTech]

@@iceholepower8012 thank you I appreciate that!

[@jaketownsend3341]

Great video. Looking forward to the other tests. Deep dives like this are key to finding top quality products

[@iceholepower8012]

I also believe that it will drive change for the good of the customer. Thanks for watching Jake!

[@edbrown3047]

Thanks for this.I see alot of recommendations on the Norsk on the ice fishing pages. These videos really help people like me who don't have a clue about lithium batteries

[@iceholepower8012]

Happy to help!

[@huckfin1100]

I sure do appreciate your videos they help fishermen a whole lot

[@iceholepower8012]

Thank you!!

[@AustinDeanRoach]

So I use this in my helix 9 and I get pretty close to the full ah. It doesn't shut the unit off when I get down to the 10v it keeps going the battery meter just shows its dead is all

[@jonnitzsche3495]

Thanks again for your time on these battery series, really appreciate it.

[@iceholepower8012]

My pleasure! Hope you got something out of them, thanks Jon!

[@NPLife]

I've tried quite a few different lithium batteries and I always come back to AMPED. They're great!

[@iceholepower8012]

Aaron, same here. That is why they are in our boxes.

[@joeugro5999]

So in my tests I have a helix 7 g2, it will run down to 8.7v before it shuts down. And you still get clean sonar readings at that voltage. On the cold side they are not like drill batteries where you are pulling a lot of amps out of them so it should be just fine.

[@iceholepower8012]

So are you saying that the specs on the humminbird website are incorrect? Does the manufacture not know the operating voltage of their own fish finder? On the cold side, as long as the amp draw is low, the temperature isn't a factor? I recently received a Lighting Lithium Ion battery that will be thrown in the testing mix. We will see.

[@joeugro5999]

@@iceholepower8012I'm sure humminbirds specs are correct. I was just going off of what I have tested personally. Lithium ion does loose some capacity in the cold but at the same time it does perform better than lead acid batteries while in the cold. I love the videos that you do and I hope you can keep doing them. I do believe you try to be as non biased as possible.

[@mlardinois80]

Yes Humminbird will run on lower voltage than 10.8v. The concerns are, when running at a lower voltage, you are drawing more amps. This creates more heat within the circuitry of the unit. Will this cause more wear and tear on your components? Does your image quality or target separation diminish? These are all things that are to be determined but I would assume there is a reason why all major manufacturers post their working voltage range.

[@AustinDeanRoach]

Yeah I agree here I get the full run time off my helix 9 I will have to check but I'm pretty sure I'm pulling right at 1 amp with my screen at full brightness... but I I have to agree people don't realize you only get about half the charge cycles is why they sell so cheap but for a common guy those will last many years

[@jasseagraves]

This is the one I was waiting for. Thank you.

[@iceholepower8012]

You bet, hope it was helpful!

[@jasseagraves]

@@iceholepower8012 sure was.

[@dallasmarce9193]

I am looking for a high quality lithium battery to run my Helix 9, and Mega Live. I want higher voltage (was looking at Norsk 14.8volt). But after this I want other options. Thx

[@jonschiele5228]

I Have watched a few of your battery reviews, if you had to pick a battery for a flasher, which would you choose?

[@anthonyray773]

Really like your videos on lithium batteries. Have you tested the lithium pro and ionic lithium batteries?

[@rolfes17]

Just curious is this 100% non bias when your company only sells amped outdoors batteries?

[@iceholepower8012]

Well, you can watch the Amped video and see everything that I talk about that I don't like about that battery and decide for yourself. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4KWiqd7hJqAnLs

[@ericahlstrom9506]

Is there a difference in the chemistry between the norsk green batteries and the orange one that is 14.8 v?

[@iceholepower8012]

No, just one more cell in series to increase the voltage.

[@jessegodsey]

Have you ever reviewed Eco-Worthy Batteries?

[@iceholepower8012]

I have not but we are taking votes for the next battery, there is an Eco-Worthy in the mix. facebook.com/189949278251347/posts/1010899222823011/

[@jondoerr2652]

Curious to see a review of the Tracker batteries sold at Cabela's

[@iceholepower8012]

I will have to grab on next time I am in there. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@alberthighsaw5622]

What about the dakota batteries. How do thay hold up.

[@iceholepower8012]

I made a video on the 7ah kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHewfH2Qf7lorpo and the 10ah kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWW2ZY1tgJpqjbc one was really good and I was disappointed with the other

[@mikereissy6111]

I bought this battery for my ice 45 and now I get the voltage warning on my flasher screen now. Never did that with my led battery I had before.

[@iceholepower8012]

Now you know why! Thanks for watching!

[@mikereissy6111]

@@iceholepower8012 this was their response to my email I sent them regarding the voltage sign coming up on my flasher. Ice 45 is a mechanical flasher so this is funny: “Thanks for reaching out! Your Ice45 is collaborated to read lead acid batteries, not lithium. The amped battery also is lifePo4, not ion, so again it will read the voltage differently. Great news is that your battery is ok and humminbird will be releasing software updates to allow units like yours to read the voltage of lithium batteries. I hope that helps clarify! Happy Fishing!”

[@iceholepower8012]

@@mikereissy6111 check out the power requirements of the 45 instruction book. bottom of page 33. www.gpscentral.ca/manuals/Humminbird_ICE_35-45-55_Manual.pdf

[@benjaminsteines]

Wow, I’m with you, lots more questions raised on this kind of battery. Definitely wondering how this Li Ion does in extreme cold (-10F) as well. Maybe an extreme freezer test is in order? 😶‍🌫️🥶

[@iceholepower8012]

My thoughts exactly!!! We will do it for sure!!!

[@presidentspilot]

Fantastic review, Jeremy! You sure opened my eyes about the drop-off of the voltage VS the bottom-end voltage needed to keep the 'load' properly functioning! (In some ways the battery voltage drop more resembles a SLA battery!) I have ordered a Moseworth 24 volt 60ah lithium battery to power a Newport Vessels NK-180S brushless motor that will propel my Wilderness Native Titian 13.5 Propel kayak. What motor are you using to propel your Native 13.5 with, Jeremy?

[@iceholepower8012]

Leg power! The fishing tournaments that I was in did not allow motors last year. Sounds like that is changing so I will have to rig something up in the spring. Thanks for watching!

[@barryw1244]

Great videos! Appreciate your insights. Before I saw your video, I recently bought a Norsk 15aH Lithium Ion battery to power my new HELIX 7. It arrived in the mail with a reading of 1.1 volts. Is that a cause for concern? I put a full (7 or 8) hour charge on it, which brought it up to 12.6 volts. I noticed that the charger got extremely hot during charging. After using the HELIX for a few hours, I left the battery in a battery box in the boat for a couple of days. The next time I went fishing, the HELIX wouldn't turn on. The voltage in the battery read 1.24 volts. I thought it could be one of two things - self discharge, or the HELIX had accidentally turned on and ran for two days. I put another charge on it, and it hasn't discharged much at all since that first time. If the HELIX had been accidentally running for a couple of days, could the battery have discharged below the 10.8 volt lower limit of the HELIX? FYI, I placed an order for an AmpedOutdoors 12aH lithium phosphate battery to replace the Norsk.

[@kingstondunk3465]

I almost bought two of these after seeing good reviews from in depth outdoors channel. They are sponsored by hummingbird so that makes sense. Shipping to Canada and cost of charger was going to be too much. Bought a marcum brute on sale and think it will suit my needs and budget. Thanks for awesome series!!!

[@iceholepower8012]

Yeah... A little battery knowledge can go a long ways in sorting out the BS paid reviews. Good call on the Brute, it is a solid battery! Thanks for watching!

[@googz79]

The norsk may not be a good option to run a graph, but how about low draw items like lights or a Bluetooth setup?

[@iceholepower8012]

It would work for those items. Great question

[@chrish1172]

Be curious how the Amped 12AH would do on the 10.8v/Helix 7 test.

[@iceholepower8012]

Great question! I will revisit those tests. All lithium batteries with a nominal voltage of 12.8v has a higher voltage range than any Lithium-ion 11.1v nominal batteries so they would discharge the vast majority of their capacity while above the 10.79 helix operating range. When LifeP04 batteries get that low on voltage, they are falling fast and hard on the discharge curve.

[@sammartens5924]

Can you do the Do the amped nmc

[@iceholepower8012]

I will add it to the list. Thanks!

[@benjaminbailey4984]

Any plans to do any testing on the Norsk 14.8V 20.8AH Lithium-Ion Battery? Looks to have a higher operating voltage range (listed as 11.2-16.8V). I apologize if this was asked already I tried to scan through the comments. Thank you!

[@iceholepower8012]

I would like to. I think that battery will be the better option for fish finders. It is better suited for the voltage range.

[@christopherherrmann6269]

Another great video!! Love learn what to buy and what not to buy. So thanks, also I hope as many times I rewind it, it counts as views😂. Look forward to watching more

[@iceholepower8012]

Thanks for watching!

[@ryanknudson3446]

30 ah amped outdoors. Can't remember if you had that on your list to test or not

[@iceholepower8012]

We will get it done! Do you prefer 30ah wide or tall?

[@ryanknudson3446]

@@iceholepower8012 tall

[@tuiflies5869]

Notice the 12AHr Amped and Dakota batteries run down to 10V & 9V respectively. Wonder how their runtimes would change if they were stopped at 10.79V too….

[@iceholepower8012]

Great question! I will revisit those tests. All lithium batteries with a nominal voltage of 12.8v has a higher voltage range than any Lithium-ion 11.1v nominal batteries so they would discharge the vast majority of their capacity while above the 10.79 helix operating range. When LifeP04 batteries get that low on voltage, they are falling fast and hard on the discharge curve.

[@joshalzen4778]

Awesome info. Thanks for doing these tests.

[@iceholepower8012]

You bet! Thanks for tuning in Josh!!!

[@josearrasola7236]

Good day sir , I’ve always been sighing to catch you channel in the evening ! Don’t make a difference I’m still going to watch where ever and when I get a chance ! I have a small repair shop and I have Been making power bank solar gen for the homeless here in south Florida and I have been doing this for about 8 years already but I don’t if you remember when I said I had my fair share of battery testing ! But I found making my own I get more for less that’s counting labor cost but yes 30 days on usb they’ll saying if it breaks you still lose the warranty! They need to stand up for what they made up for !

[@iceholepower8012]

Thanks for watching Jose! You will have to send me pics of your batteries!!!! [e-mail]

[@erickescobedo4820]

Would you pick Amped Outdoors 12v 18ah or the Marcum 12v 18ah? I'm trying to choose between the two. I don't ice fish but I will be on a kayak.

[@iceholepower8012]

Great question, right now I would go with Marcum just because of availability. They have similar build quality.

[@swiggs754]

I just purchased the Norsh 15 AH battery today for a Garmin 73SV fish finder. It was the only one sold in the brick and mortar store that I visited. They did not have any chargers so I ordered one from the company and they sent it out the same day. As I await for the charger... I took a voltage reading of the battery in the OEM state and it registers 1.2 Volts. Was that your experience?? (Seems quite low based on my experience with lithium batteries for drones.) Of note.... I cant test my batteries ability to charge from that low level and Can't test the fish finder till the charger arrives.

[@iceholepower8012]

I am guessing that it is in low voltage protection mode (sleep mode). The batteries are shipped from the manufacture in China with a 30% SOC (State of Charge). I can think of three scenarios for this. It's a Dud, it has been sitting on the shelf at that brick and motor store for some time and lost it's charge. Or it was a returned battery and the previous owner never charged it back up. If your charger does not wake it up, try and take it back. Let us know how things go with it! Thanks for watching!

[@swiggs754]

@@iceholepower8012 Follow up on the new batteries charge state. I went back to the store and the 5 other NORSK 15 AH batteries on the shelf also did not show any LED lights when the top LED button was pushed. I then received this message back from the company: "It is shipped with the BMS turned off to protect the life of the battery. It will need a charge to wake up." The charger arrived yesterday and as soon as I connected the battery, the LED light went on. It took 6-7 hours to move to a fully charged state of 12.67 V using a volt meter. That makes sense since the charger is rated at 2 amps / hr. Correspondingly... About every 2 hrs the next LED light showed the 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% status. I will test the batteries discharge current to my Garmin UHD 73SV unit tomorrow on a nearby lake to see if it can support a day of fishing. Thanks ICE Hole Power for your comments... (I wont be testing the battery in serious cold conditions so that will be for others to determine).

[@swiggs754]

One more follow up in that the charger did arrive and as soon as I connected the battery the first LED light functioned on pressing the battery charge status button. It took 7-8 hrs to fully charge the battery. When I went to the lake for fishing, i monitored the voltage and it moved from 12.6 volts to 11.9 Volts in 4.5 hrs with my Garmin UHD 73SV unit on continuously... I double checked the voltage with a meter and confirmed the 11.9 volts. The weather was in the high 60's. I suspect that this battery will allow my unit to run for a full 8 hrs in reasonable weather.

[@presidentspilot]

Jeremy, KZbin's "Northstar Angling" on Feb 24, 2021, (published on Feb 26, 2021) ran a test of this same Norsk 15ah battery and, using a Hummingbird Helix 5 Gen 1 fish finder, got 22 hours of operation out of the Helix 5 unit! Heck, the Helix 5 was STILL operational when the Norsk battery was reading zero percent charged!! I chuckled because Northstar was then wondering that at zero percent charged, how in the world could the Helix STILL be running, and wondered if it was 'possessed!" LOL!

[@iceholepower8012]

I watched the video, I'm sure it can run the screen with the transducer out of the water for 22 hours. The specs show that unit with an operating voltage range of 10.8v-20v. Below that threshold you can expect poor returns and target separation as the unit starts to feel the effects of being under powered.

[@mattgregory4124]

So I am running a Helix 9 ice set up. I bought a Norsk 15ah battery. Only getting 5 hours of run time. Very disappointed. What battery do you recommend for this set up? Thank you?

[@iceholepower8012]

There should be a list of recommended batteries in the video description

[@mlardinois80]

Well explained. A few more points and examples of why 11.1v batteries are less ideal. When running lower voltage, you are starving the electronics of voltage, meaning they are drawing more amps. Companies do this to trick you into thinking you are getting a higher capacity battery, but you really are not. The only one who wins by buying this type of battery is the company selling them. As you stated, they have lower costs to build and companies can put a higher price tag on them with higher AH capacities. Think of it like buying gas with ethanol, you burn more to achieve the same amount of power. The advantage of ethanol in a vehicle is it is less expensive to the consumer and better for the environment. With 11.1v, you I really not saving money and the NMC used give you significant less charge cycles. Be aware of any company taking advantage of the ignorance of consumers and even their partnered companies. Eventually everyone will get the proper education such as this video and in the end the companies who are honest with their customers will strive. Yes, a hummingbird unit can run at lower voltage then 10.8v. there are many disadvantages to this and this is why all of your electronic manufacturers do not recommend lower voltages. Why would they choose an 11.1v battery? It could be the major decision maker is not properly educated? It could be profits? Who knows. Ironically the biggest names in ice fishing running Hummingbird are using Amped Outdoors for a reason.

[@bryankellar2752]

Great watch on this as I was looking to purchase this. Ty

[@brandonn4790]

How long did it take to charge the norsk?

[@iceholepower8012]

I did not actually time it. But considering the math, they send a 2 amp charger and it is a 15ah battery so. 15ah/2amps = 7.5 hours

[@allenupnorth2191]

Can I use this battery with my livescope

[@iceholepower8012]

There are better options

[@wiscowalleye7954]

Great video. I got the mega live ice kit it came with the larger orange version of the NORSK. I fished hard with it all winter on a helix 9. No where near the advertised run time. At 8hrs I’m down to about 30-40%. Also I’m not sure if it has cold temperature protection. I doubt it. I’ve brought it in from the cold and started charging it right away and seems like it started charging right away. I’ve probably already damaged it. Thanks for your informative videos I’m learning a lot. I just ordered the 12 Volt 125ah IONIC heated batteries for my boat trolling motor. I hope they are better quality than the small one you tore apart because they were not cheap. Lol

[@iceholepower8012]

I think that the larger batteries get more build quality attention. Plus they are made with prismatic cells so it's also an easier build. Thanks for watching!!

[@craigwavra3495]

Appreciate you explaining all that. Enjoy the detail for these tests. Almost bought the Force battery. Will wait until that video comes out, but probably will not be purchasing.

[@iceholepower8012]

That one should be a good video. Good call.

[@CARLBP]

Good stuff. I bought 2 of the Marcum Force batteries. Hope I did not make a mistake. I have been pleased with the Marcum Brute and King ones I have.

[@iceholepower8012]

Scheel's has a pretty good return policy.

[@CARLBP]

@@iceholepower8012 do you already think this is that bad before doing the breakdown?

[@iceholepower8012]

It appears to be the same chemistry and voltage range as the Norsk. There are just better battery options in my opinion. I did mention them in the end of this video.

[@douglasdeboerjr9867]

Great video can’t wait to see the iconic 12v 12amh for around 100 dollars has bluetooth curious as to your thought I will not purchase a battery with out watching theses video very informative thank you for sharing with us Jeremy

[@iceholepower8012]

I am looking forward to that one! We are voting for the next battery on the Facebook page, make sure to put one in for the Iconic! Thanks for watching!

[@douglasdeboerjr9867]

@@iceholepower8012 thank youb

[@ItsChoeTime]

This battery reminds me of when Marcum put similar cells into their lithium shuttles. Struggles in cold enviroments~

[@iceholepower8012]

Yeah, that was probably a customer service nightmare for them

[@mlardinois80]

The shuttle is 11.1v lipo. Never quite understood that. Very unstable.

[@larva7066]

Thx for the sticker with my battery 🤣

[@iceholepower8012]

everyone loves a cool sticker!

[@anthonyorr2487]

First. I almost was tempted to buy that Marcum Force battery until I saw the charge cycles and did a HARD pass! Bought the 15 AH AMPED instead.

[@iceholepower8012]

Good call! I knew I had something going on when some guy commented "First" within the first 2 mins of posting the video!!! ;) Thanks man!

[@anthonyorr2487]

@@iceholepower8012 Love the content! And from a fellow vet.....THANK YOU!

[@MatCatSoft]

LiPo is heavier then LifePo4 so makes no sense for an equivalent voltage / Ah for the LifePo4 to be heavier. Also on voltages, LiPo has a full voltage of 4.2V per cell, and an empty voltage of 3.2V, so for a 12V 3 cell battery the range should be 9.6v - 12.6v.

[@FargoNDRoland]

Good video

[@iceholepower8012]

Glad you enjoyed

[@stoneblue1795]

Interesting tech report(s). Appreciate the lessons, thoughts and ideas. I hope you are building up to making and selling your own batteries!

[@iceholepower8012]

I have had a bunch of requests, but it's not in the plan at this point. Thank you so much for your support JP!

[@jasonbroom7147]

That's probably a 3S-5P battery, with 3,000mah 18650 NMC cells. When you do the tear-down, we'll know. That's a total of 15 cells. What's silly is they could build a 4S-4P pack, using the exact same (16) cells, wire it to a buck converter that outputs a consistent 12.5 volts, and then you'd get the full range of power from the cells. Instead of getting 10 amp-hours of usable power from a 15 amp-hour battery, you'd get ~12 amp-hours out of a 12 amp-hour battery, PLUS you'd have regulated 12.5v output for your electronics the entire time. You'd need a different BMS and the buck converter...maybe 3 or 4 dollars more into the construction costs for a MUCH better product.

[@lanevickers6958]

It seems if you call them out about mis information on their product they delete you comment on their Facebook page

[@iceholepower8012]

what's that tell you? ;)

[@mlardinois80]

Trying to hide the facts. They only see $$$$ and honestly not sure how some companies sleep at night

[@dennishedrick5308]

Most electronic devices use Lithium ion. The solar industry are the main users of Lithium Iron phosphate. I believe the two technologies use similar battery spot welding techniques. Not sure what the quandary is regarding Lithium Ion usage. Most builders use Lithium ion technology for their power tools which are used in heat and in the cold. I guess a person needs to look up battery specs before using in an ice house scenario.

[@whitelightning3330]

This would be great for keeping phones charged with the USB ports.

[@patrickethier6190]

Hope we're getting a unbiased opinion here ... People just want to know what's the best product out there for the money!!!

[@iceholepower8012]

I actually stopped selling Amped batteries for that reason. I am giving honest opinions about the batteries and supporting it with the specs.

[@adamspelhaug1015]

1year now on the USBs

[@iceholepower8012]

That's the goal, drive change to benefit the consumer!

[@theluckystrike6371]

🙂 👍🏻👍🏻