Not All Megapixels Are Equal (and Nikon RED LUTs Review) | The PetaPixel Podcast

[@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel]

My condolences to all the Leica M11-D users who are experiencing a freeze and have no idea what's happening because they don't have a screen.

[@alhOOO2O]

🤣

[@FerventAstronomy]

This stimulated me to watch Tony’s video, and I don’t see anything immediately incorrect with his take or his methods. He took a pro-consumer position in opposition to a multinational corporation’s marketing spin, backed it up with real world testing, and put a call-out for consumers to be treated with less marketing spin….. What exactly is wrong with that? Chris insisting that the iPhone is producing 16-20MP of resolution, after (watching?) someone prove otherwise, is hard for me to wrap my head around. I also can’t fathom why the developer of a smartphone camera app is being called upon for a take: he has a vested interest in people believing phone image quality is good (enough?) for their needs. Every time Apple (or Google or Samsung etc) convinces someone to re-route their camera budget into a new smartphone, some proportion of those people will buy or rent Halide after realizing the phone’s camera app sucks. A subject matter expert, sure, but the guy has a very specific financial horse in the race.

[@nitni0002]

They absolutely need to incorporate those luts into the camera firmwares

[@JMurph2015]

Fwiw for everyone's clarity: a 48MP Quad Bayer sensor only has 48M photosites (not 48M * 3 for RGB). The dirty secret that many people seem to have forgotten is that all cameras use this marketing trick. Your $6000 Sony "50MP" ILC only has 50M photosites (give or take a few for PDAF, which goes for smartphones as well). 2 of the 3 color channels for every pixel in the resulting image are inferred from demosaicing. The big difference is that a 48MP Quad Bayer sensor has 48M photosites in blocks of 4 that each use *the same color filter* so that they can read it in those blocks as 12M photosites as if it were a conventional Bayer pattern or they can read all 48M and use a different demosaicing algorithm that infers even more color information from adjacent pixels. The result is that a conventional Bayer sensor has about 4x the _color_ resolution that an equivalent MP Quad Bayer sensor does. They have approximately the same luminance resolution. This is why Leica's B&W cameras are known for being "so sharp". They don't produce bigger files. They just don't have the Bayer filter getting in the way. Similarly, this is why there is so much hype around Sigma's Foveon technology. If they can get it to work, then every single photosite will capture all 3 color channels.

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

@@JMurph2015 Couldn't have said it better myself 👏👏

[@drchtct]

It’s not really a marketing trick in other cameras if they actually display way more than 12mp. Nobody cares about technicalities, what matters is „how much detail do you get?“ And Tony’s video was very clear on this, one camera displays a whole lot more than another. One camera advertises 48mp and gets like 6mp, that’s disastrous. Everyone that owns a phone and a camera should just test for themselves and see how Apple, Samsung and Google lie about their overpriced flagship phones to take market share away from the camera market. I wouldn’t care if these phone cameras were part of a €400 package, but they cost €1200-1400 nowadays.

[@CO8848_2]

By far, this is the most cogent explanation. Now that makes me want to explore the Leica B&W cameras.

[@JMurph2015]

@@drchtct you get less color detail using Quad Bayer than a traditional Bayer sensor. If you had read my comment fully, you would understand that 👌

[@drchtct]

@@JMurph2015 if you watched the comparisons, you would understand my comment.

[@garfieldirwin]

Tony N just calling out Apple's marketing for the BS that it is. The question is, why isn't anyone else?

[@mavfan1]

They won’t get invited next time if they do.

[@Trevellian]

PetaPixel should call out this misleading marketing on every phone review, no matter the brand. Yes, it needs to be called out every time, as there will always be new viewers who don't know the truth If this results in PetaPixel not being invited to the next event, they should wear it as a badge of honor. "Banned for telling the truth".

[@garfieldirwin]

@@Trevellian Completely agree! These are professional photographers that should know better than to fawn over smart phone makers hype.

[@alen2937]

100% with Chris on phones. Of all the things we have, Cellphones offer the worse ergonomic experience to do anything and that is why also my phone is a cheapo one. That way I avoid to rot my thoughts with anything consumer-phone related. Also, for that LEICA camera... you can always flip the other screen around in many cameras, my A7C can at least.

[@VioletGOKU]

can confirm, Megapixels are vastly inferior to Petapixels 😂

[@JayBlue2U]

🤣🤣🤣

[@ricknicholson5894]

The photography industry has been lying for ages. My favourite rant (notice the spelling of favourite), is lens length. I haven't been following the most recent lenses but let's talk about two Canon classics - the ef 400 f5.6 L and the original 100 - 400mm L zoom. I had this discussion at dpreview a long time ago. I said the 100 - 400 wasn't really, more like 100 - 385 or something along that line, pushing old memory cells in my brain. Naturally I was challenged at dpreview for saying this, my response: "get the 400mm and the zoom. Shoot at long end with the zoom and the 400 prime. In theory the image should be the same. But you will discover the prime is "more 400" than the zoom." I know Chris and Jordan have known about this phenomena for a long time. Why do the companies get a pass on these lies?

[@ericaceous1652]

I recall Duade Paton doing a video on this topic at some point too - or at least talking about it in a more general video. Perhaps a prime v zoom video?

[@TravelerNick]

Focal length is measured at infinity focus. If a lens breathes more the AOV will be different than a lens that has breathing under control. I mean if you're closer than infinity. 400mm using a 200x rule of thumb infinity is at 800metres. Lenses have almost never had EXACT focal lengths. Most people don't care if it's a 49,50 or 51mm lens. Unless you're using the lens on an industrial setup that depends on exact FL the difference is just noise. Just look at your example. The angle of view change isn't going to matter in real life. 385 or 400mm. In both cases you're basically the same. How big is the difference?

[@ricknicholson5894]

@@TravelerNick 15 degrees

[@TravelerNick]

@@ricknicholson5894 15mm at 400 mm isn't 15 degrees. It's 5.x to 5.something. Quick search Canon's 400mm EF claims 6.1 degrees for the diagonal . 5.1 for the horizontal. Nikon's 400mm Z also claims 6.1 385 is virtually the same angle

[@houserhythm]

@@ricknicholson5894 that's 15mm, not degrees. The whole image doesn't cover 15 deg at this long FL. 400mm has a horizontal AOV of 5.2 deg, vs 385mm has 5.4 deg. That's a 3.5% difference and even side by side it's gonna be hard to spot, unless you shoot a measuring tape.

[@timdekyrke]

Just a heads up: The Nikon Heralbony Zfc is available in Germany (Europe?) on the 19th of September for 1369€ (that is with 19% VAT included).

[@starbase218]

In the UK as well. It was on NikonRumors too, yet PP missed this(?)

[@ianroe1076]

Regarding Jaron's interest in rangefinders, I highly recommend looking into Canon LTM lenses. They are inexpensive, easy to work on, and excellent quality. The Canon Serenar 50 1.8 is the most clinically perfect lens I own - compared to my two Leica 50mm Summicrons from later production years. They are not M-mount, but they use Leica's older screw mount. Leica screw mount lenses can be adapted to M mount with a simple, cheap adapter that adds virtually zero size to the unit (maybe one or two millimeters) and brings up the correct framelines with correct rangefinder focus coupling. I have had excellent luck with Urth brand adapters, but I am sure cheaper ones of good quality are available. Also, I highly recommend learning how to calibrate the rangefinder yourself. It will save you a lot of money, and only takes about half an hour of your time on most cameras.

[@thealmightysnark5878]

Jordan's intro's are definitely a highlight of the podcast!

[@sipper2136]

Fips sounds silly, therefore we should adopt it.

[@alexdubois6585]

I agree with Jordan view on that... take it to its satiristical form... FIPS is a term used for security certification for IT equipments... Could be used for the Leica C2PA implementation, but not for FPS for sure :)

[@doyoulikejazz9516]

I think you guys are lacking a bit in the reasoning department because "everybody does it" and "we've done it for ever so why not continue" aren't that good of an argument in any way, shape or form

[@Fedorevsky]

Yeah the good old "but momma, the other kids do it too" type argument. We all learned this was a bogus argument as children.

[@kendokaaa]

And also some other manufacturers do let you take full resolution photos if the subject is bright enough

[@quangpham4372]

That’s just evidence that the Northrups are really not holding back against anyone; while most other outlets do need to keep some degree of relationships with the manufacturers

[@absolutelyeverything]

I think you missed the argument. You can’t beat physics. There’s simply no way around it. This solution gives them a phone that can create higher resolution images, still shoot fast enough for computational editing, and be affordable enough for the average person who doesn’t give a F how many true megapixels their Instagram photos are. The argument isn’t “everyone is doing it so it’s okay”, it’s “everyone is doing it because it’s the smart move and calling out Apple in particular is stupid”

[@mikeireland2428]

Do you think digital split image and digital microprism focusing are as horrible as I do?

[@Radium3D]

He's right to call it out. Your reasoning of "we've been pushing the wrong megapixel number for so long why not keep doing it?" is a little off base. Just pull off the bandaid and start being honest about the full real pixel count forever going forward, that's what everyone wants.

[@axgrf]

The problem is, tony is wrong here. A quad Bayer sensor with advertised 48MP indeed has 48MP, the only difference to a 48MP Bayer sensor is the different Pixel layout. The demosaicing is more complex with the quad Bayer sensor, which results in it not being 100% comparable in detail with a Bayer sensor, a 48MP Quad Bayer sensor can roughly be compared to a ~35MP Bayer sensor.

[@JMurph2015]

​@@axgrf It depends on what you call a pixel. "Just a different color filter" is very disingenuous. Regular Bayer filters essentially cut the color information by 4 compared to luminance. So let's just use the 48MP example. On a normal Bayer filter, aka all normal CMOS sensors, the resulting image has ~48MP of luminance data and 12MP of color data. The rest is interpolated (debayering). On a Quad Bayer sensor, it cuts the color data by another factor of 4 by reducing the spatial sampling frequency of each color by 1/2 (the maximum gap between adjacent sampling locations of the same color) in each dimension. Therefore, you end up with ~48MP of luminance data and 3MP of color data (equivalent to a normal 12MP Bayer filter).

[@axgrf]

@@JMurph2015 Yes, usually however I’d say luminance data is more important than color data, considering sharpness and detail is usually resolved in the luminance. Additionally, the color data is being added in the computational pipeline by stacking it with a binned 12MP image.

[@JMurph2015]

@@axgrf luminance data is more important, but most people agree on the pretty reasonable definition of a pixel being one point of RGB. Bayer sensors don't meet that standard, but it's been industry standard so long that it's largely forgotten outside of astrophotography forums, and Quad Bayer sensors certainly don't. The second part of your post is not a valid statement. Stacking another low resolution image on top doesn't get you up to the right amount of color resolution (unless you can guarantee that you're stacking images offset by a fraction of a pixel, like pixel shift multishot, which most smartphones do not do that for every photo).

[@garfieldirwin]

Tony is calling out Apple marketing. The question is, why isn't anyone else?

[@lyndonarden-wong3752]

The main takeaway I got from Northrop’s video was that the increased image file size leads to a need for more cloud storage space. That was a far more interesting argument, from my point of view

[@RollinLeonard]

Yea it seems that Tony actually tested and reviewed the cameras and these nice guys here just regurgitated marketing materials provided to them.

[@RollinLeonard]

The megapixel thing is not old news or common knowledge because people are always comparing their iphones to professional cameras taking those marketing BS numbers. Everybody is doing this BS and there needs to be push back from reviewers like you guys. I'd love if you kept pecking away at these fake megapixel claims even with just a brief statement. So good on Tony! I hope you come around too.

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

@@RollinLeonard I second this. You guys are seen as professipnal photographers maybe it's time to start acting like it

[@swr410]

Right, I’m newly into photography, and it’s not old news to me that smartphones are reporting non-equivalent numbers with the equivalent-sounding same label. Especially with Apple looking to grab even more of the casual photography market with this generation (with the new camera button and more processing options), it feels like a very relevant difference to highlight at this moment.

[@niccollsvideo]

I did mention it in our review.

[@swr410]

@@niccollsvideo first, I love your channel and your work, and I really appreciate what you do and what I’ve learned from you, Jordan, and the team. That said, I watched the review and enjoyed it, but the I do feel like it would have been interesting and informative to see some kind of test at how much detail 48mp quad bayer really is, and not just in comparison to the 12mp iPhone camera. Were Tony’s tests not accurate or not fair somehow? They were kind of wild, if so, as they make it looks like the iPhones aren’t even achieving 12mp of detail. You made a great review and you had a lot to cover, and wow, that would be hard to do in just a few days. Still, to me the topic of photo resolution feels worth more than a quick mention, 18 minutes deep, in a photographer-focused review. After all, the iPhone marketing site this year even has a diagram of a 120mm large lenses and says, “it’s like having seven pro lenses in your pocket.” How close to true is that? From another angle, how much would a buyer miss out if they got the non-Pro with a 12mp wide angle camera, vs the Pro with the “48mp” wide angle? Maybe it could be an interesting topic for a future video, unless you’re just sick of the topic, in which case, fair enough. Again though, thanks for the great channel! I feel lucky to have Petapixel’s videos and podcasts to enjoy.

[@Aureli7]

It is old news, manufacturers have been doing it for at least 5 years.

[@thefocalcode]

Jordan killing it with his streaming scene lighting haha

[@d3xmeister]

Actually Tony is right. The reason I stopped shooting my iphone since the 12 is because the level details in most photos is very low. It was much better in older phones. I take a photo in bright daylight with 1/6400 shutter speed and the details are barely comparable to my old 5MP Olympus E-1 photos ? And that is in RAW. That’s unacceptable for today. They look dreadful on my 65 inch TV, 40inch monitor or largish prints. So I only use the phone for snaps of meaningless things

[@JasonOverHere]

I agree. And the skin tones are horrendous. How Apple have continued pushing this nonsense since switching to a 12mp sensor boggles the mind. Really not sure if the executive team are siloed, or if this is the “we can’t be wrong” silliness Apple are plagued by.

[@d3xmeister]

@@JasonOverHere Skin tones on iPhone lack the smooth gradations recorded by big sensor cameras, that’s a small sensor issue that computational processes can’t fix, and along with iphone processing, people look like plastic. But people got used to this look, I asked around and they see nothing wrong, until I show them a portrait made with a decent camera, and then they see the difference

[@JasonOverHere]

@@d3xmeister It’s true. I don’t disagree at all. People are forgetting what a proper photo looks like. However, my 5MP & 8MP iPhones had much better skin tones than the 12MP iPhones. That’s subjective, but taken from looking at my own photos over the years (including with my actual cameras). I don’t know for certain what Apple changed with the 12MP iPhones in terms of processing, but it seems related to the way photos are stacked to provide better dynamic range, irrespective of HDR.

[@MattN-g6c]

That set up and ending question. . . brilliant. =) FPS for the win.

[@ElectroMedia-cs9ek]

lol-referring to the iPhone debate (full insertion charging)😂😂. I was wondering where I was gonna start laughing in this video. There’s always at least one or two times I’m rolling on each video. Great podcast guys ,full insertion.😂

[@Abc1987]

Jaron: I’ve owned and sold a decent number of cameras (including an x100v and x100vi and an m11). My bessa r2a is by far my favorite camera I’ve ever owned. Light weight, small, can use for EDC or for travel. Great choice! You’ll love it

[@W00dy_NL]

Oh an Jaron! Congrats on the Bessa, I have its sibling a R3a with 40 mm 1.4 bought it new when they just came out. Body was around 900 euro from Hong Kong shipped to EU. Really love that camera. It was my holiday camera for years until the Fuji X100t came along. Hope you will enjoy yours as much as I did/do.

[@BradleySwainAwesome]

Jaron needs a beanie for his film photography KZbin era

[@PetaPixel]

Well I am in Portland. Get some flannel while I'm at it.

[@davegrenier1160]

Concerning the "sensor" reflection in the moth photo. It can't be a reflection. Note the upper right corner of the pattern where it is superimposed on the blurry, light-colored flower. It makes the flower darker. A reflection could only ADD light to the flower (making that corner of the "box" brighter), it can't make anything in the photograph darker. Bright areas on the sensor would make the flower lighter in spots (because light reflected from the sensor would ADD to the light striking the sensor's photosites), while dark areas on the sensor can't SUBTRACT light (reflecting from the flower) from the photosites recording the scene. If the portions of a sensor are reflecting ANY LIGHT AT ALL, that light would be added to the photosites recording the scene's reflected light, even if they were reflecting so little light that there's no perceptible increase in the light being recorded to the RAW file. OTOH, if any of the sensor's area were completely dark, they simply WOULDN"T ADD light to any of the sensoer's photosites, not darkening them. (In fact, after examining the file Jaron posted, the "pattern" is definitely blocking light where it appears, and is making nothing brighter. This indicates something on the sensor - most likely - or on a lens element.) Also, the pattern is not centered in the image. Because the lens and the sensor are centered on each other, and because the angle of reflection equals the angle of incidence, any reflection of the sensor onto the rear element and back onto the sensor must be on-axis. This pattern is decidedly off-axis (presuming the image hasn't been cropped). My WAG: It's residue on the sensor left by an attempt to clean it. BTW, how many nocts does a fip weigh?

[@drchtct]

I think you are right in a way that yes, we in a camera bubble know that 48mp on phones are not really 48mp. And we know that they are not as good as fullframe cameras. But many people outside of this bubble don’t know this, so you should point it out as reviewers. You can see by the reaction to Tony’s videos how many people didn’t know it. And it’s irrelevant if it’s the iPhone or Galaxy or Pixel, it should be tested and compared every time just like you test lenses every time.

[@RegrinderAlert]

The Content Credentials Feature can’t function without a tamper-proof hardware-based root of trust. The images need to be signed by an Authority that is trusted - Leica, Adobe etc. For that a private key is required. Without hardware protection measures preventing a readout of the key, the whole system falls apart.

[@alexdubois6585]

Very true that a secure enclave/HSM is much better, however if every vendor was to today provide C2PA in software as an initial step, it would still be better than nothing as it would push the entire toolchain and distribution to have this info. I can't wait for Europe to mandate to all social media to have this info (mainly against fake news).

[@Borodino33]

Tony is right!

[@Zacheldridge]

100% yes @jordan. Getting the LUTs ON camera for view assist is needed bad. The current awful view assist is my biggest complaint about shooting log on Nikon...

[@g.lindzey3291]

For the person wanting a fixed lens fuji gfx camera he could always go for a hasselblad 903swc (actually any of the SWC models) and have the option of putting the 100mp hasselblad digital back on it (or other lower resolution backs) or an A12 film back. Best of both worlds. You will probably want to carry a light meter or you can just use Chris's method of guessing. And you really don't even need to worry too much about focusing just eyeball the distance.

[@dj_laundry_list]

I think DxO mark's Effective Resolution metric mostly solves these issues - if only all fixed lens cameras were marketed with that. I wish phones would just produce HEIFs at their max effective resolution, then we could save on space while giving up very little to the raw file

[@thedarkslide]

The issue is that pixel count is not a suitable way to measure resolution. Lines per MM (lpmm) is a suitable measure for resolution.

[@kendokaaa]

@@thedarkslide Lines per mm... of sensor? What if the sensor is a different size?

[@Kliffot]

@@kendokaaa Pair lines per mm, its sensor + lens, thats what is used on MTF chart.

[@arian12300]

The host at the bottom and the guy he's referring to are completely misrepresenting Tony Northup's points... Tony Northup was rightfully objecting Apple's false advertisements and how they're making consumers believe that what they're getting with iPhone cameras is pro level quality in the entirety of their keynote, and even when you visit Apple's website they try to make customers think that they're getting a quality of full frame zoom lens with iPhone lenses. personally, i think the quality of this year's iPhone camera is the same as the last 5 years at the very least... the photos look dull, full of artifacts and lack detail and depth.

[@B0b_J4ckson]

Alternative idea for Chris's shirt : Living La Vida LoCa 😎

[@PetaPixel]

Livin La Bokeh LoCA was under consideration

[@CineMobilePodcast]

The LG Voyager was SOOOOOO dope for the time. I had one as well

[@02337755]

LOVE IT. Chris keeping it real 👍

[@bodyweightbob8669]

I like Bonobos chinos, super stretchy, love them for my job and doing some photography, can bend and move and run in them. Lots of colors too.

[@costascosta273]

Not to be that guy but the Gfx is a 45mm. Safe to say Jordan has had hands on the q3 43. 😊

[@SilverHalides]

Rangefinder *and* medium format: what about the Mamiya 6 or 7? The 7II, with the 43, 80 and 150mm, is the most enjoyable rangefinder I have ever used. Also, the Bessa: cool, but I want the Zeiss ZM! 😅

[@niccollsvideo]

The Zeiss Ikon ZM is a masterpiece. Fully agree!

[@MarkThomas1]

Great choice with the Bessa! I have a Bessa R2 in black and love it. The Voightlander lenses are great and it Leica mount. Enjoy it and it's great to shoot film. PS: I still shoot digital on my Olympus OM1 mk1 though.......

[@PetaPixel]

Thanks! I'm not giving up on digital either (you really can't), but I just like how shooting film makes me feel. -Jaron

[@MarkThomas1]

@@PetaPixel Me too mate. Have a look at the TT Artisans 50mm with LM mount which is great on the Bessa. Be mindful of the tramlines though.

[@danbuchman7497]

Yep, use a Bessa with classic m42 mount Pentax lenses. Fun!

[@TristanColgate]

Maybe Fuji can bring back the old medium format folder but digital :) Fixed lens, bellows, leaf shutter, manual everything, but a nice big sensor on the back (maybe a range finder, for the cowards). My old 6x9 can fit in my pocket!

[@bishfrie]

Actually Tony was the first to say that an iphone takes better pictures then a full frame camera, that was the iphone 11😂😂

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

@@bishfrie Context: In certain scenarios he states but, when given the right time and lens a Full Frame Camera will always take better pictures

[@petouser]

I highly assume that the DJI Action 5 Pro will feature the Omnivision OV50H image sensor, as all phones that have this sensor are also advertised with 13.5 stops of dynamic range.

[@W00dy_NL]

Fips... Why not FAPS, FUPS, or FOPS? You guys have a Lut going on this week, still like the podcast a Lut though! Love it every week. Waiting for next week already!

[@drum009]

My first smart phone was the HTC Evo on Sprint Network.

[@charliewaterman816]

Can't wait to hear how you like the voitlander :) although I found myself siding with Chris. 35.... meh. :p 28 40 50 all good.. 35 just never hit with me.

[@michael1326]

Tony Northrup has been calling out Apple’s marketing since the iPhone 14. PetaPixel’s stance that this isn’t NEW news so we accept it is weak

[@kevinshrubsole6247]

Almost an apple infomercial

[@timlaunyc]

OG iPhone. I had a music centric sony-ericsson bar phone before that. Never went back to feature phones or flip phones. Then I moved onto the 3GS after that and have been on android ever since.

[@Superbus753]

I think Om System went the right way. Both the Om-1 and Om-1 mk ii have quad bayer sensors but they only claim 20 mp and do not claim the misleading 80 mp files. i Think this is the honest way to go. By the way i always felt like Smartphones were misleading with the crazy mp numbers with quad bayer sensors. Apple did resist the urge to go down this path quite a while. seems a bit sad they have given in too (since the iphone 14)

[@PetaPixel]

The OM cameras have Quad AF Sensors, not quad-bayer. www.dpreview.com/articles/4088675984/quad-bayer-vs-quad-pixel-af-what-they-are-how-they-work-and-how-they-differ

[@dfinlay587]

My first smartphone was a Microsoft PocketPC, built by HTC. I ordered it upon release in October 2002. A full 5 years before the iPhone. It was ahead of it's time, with Apps, Games, Email, Contacts, Appointments. And... I got a rig for my car to use it as a GPS. Directions, locations, etc. This has to be one of the epic failures of tech products, where you have a 5 year lead, and blow it. I rode the Microsoft phone wave until ~2015 , and then went for Android, with a Microsoft skin. I still use the skin, as I like the look and ease of running my most used apps. On the megapixel side, yea, it's frustrating understanding the MP on smartphones. I shoot with my Pixel 8 underwater with a third party app, 13MP max. What?? Have to say, it outperforms my TG-6.

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

Imagine being okay with a company lying and misleading its customers... aren't you guys supposed to review devices?

[@houserhythm]

They aren't technically lying - the sensor does have 48mp. Just your photos don't... 🙃

[@jeejbeej]

Remember how upset they were about the GFX being 10 bit instead of 12 bit or something, and compare it to their reaction to Apple's BS.

[@perilthecat]

Toneh may be leaning into cheesy KZbinr sensationalism, but at least he isn’t doing paid ad reads for the companies whose products he’s ostensibly supposed to “independently” review. Y’all gotta check yourselves.

[@hedydd2]

I bought a HTC Desire after my Ipaq personal organiser died, so the Nokia was retired. It wasn’t a great upgrade because I couldn’t then consult files while dealing with customers while using the phone to my ear for at least some degree of privacy. Retired now so no big deal but if I was working, I’d have a set of earbuds with a microphone so I could multitask as I did with the Nokia and Ipaq.

[@StephAndBurim]

We are Aussies (Australians) so we love fips❤ it’s totally legit!

[@falxonPSN]

BILFs are back, baby!

[@hendrixg]

If Nikon highlighted different artists in their different markets, that might be more fun. Show off Canadian artists, or American artist collabs.

[@dac9404]

First smart phone? An iPhone 4s in 2011 just before I retired. I had to leave it in the car because I was not allowed to have a smart phone at work. Issued cell phones had to be turned off stored outside the work area. Yes, there was a Faraday Box to put them in.

[@jennifercall9014]

Thomas Heaton and James both get Hasselblads to keep. Zooming out about. What is going on? Would love to see some market analysis from Tony and Chelsea Northrop.

[@yineo]

Basic photography question: is there an impact of aperture on dynamic range? So, if a shot is blown out by bright sky at f/2, does stopping down to f/16 (with shutter time changed to fix the exposure, obvs) reign in the extremes of dynamic range captured in the photo? I've been confused on this.

[@FawfulDied]

Given the same exposure, no. But it can reduce contrast reduction and vignetting from a lens.

[@yawningmarmot]

Wait, you guys switched to snartphones because of _music_? Did you not have feature phones by Nokia and Sony Ericsson among many others in NA?

[@kaak4737]

paterns in the background ? A)not enough colors capured., Jpg small + file size for example. B) using low quality software for transforming the RAW in a Tiff...or go to quick to srgb and go further with a strong post processing proces afterwards. a D800E does have a lot of DR , lot of "pixel power" , but if I use the wrong colorspace it will be ruined.. and get this sort of patterns ... almost artefacted "edges" Digicam , the 14 bit RAW is clean , then transform it with srgb small color space and the isued problems can be there, if i choose RGB PRO it is clean... A old sensor with low DR ( D200) , over exposed and the raw developed in the srgb can be a full of unwished patterns in the background. C) to much compression NOT using maximum compression and 12 Bit , but 14 bit uncompressed and the could give a mayor difference... especally when you start pulling up shadows ect. Now in this example, it would be in the RAW file? I thing to strong compression of the RAW in the camera settings... , so use the max Bit depth and the best or no compression for RAW. Compression in some ( cheaper) camera's are a bit sloppy, nikon D7100 12 bit compressd is terrible

[@alexdubois6585]

I don't think PetaPixel would have processed the RAW file in a wrong way. So A, B and C options above are out). Maybe he's got something in his lens, maybe one of the elements had a problem with the coating process in factory.

[@kaak4737]

​@@alexdubois6585 Thanks for this insight. I just gave a few reasons why this might surface. Optically? , once had an EF300mm f2.8L USM, everything first series, superior on slide film, to the digital age a drama, foggy photos, moderately sharp on a 20D, 30D, 40D then sold and the photographer is super with it, had put a modern 1.4x with digital coating in between and internal reflections were gone. Experienced again with the AFI400mm f2.8DiFED, reasonable, then the flat insert fiter out and great photos, also internal reflections between lens and image chip eliminated. a different kind of deviation there, not paterns/spots Sensor dirty? looks different ... wrong cleaning fluid on a Pentax K1 sensor, had ruined the top layer, also the spots as shown in the film, but more blue colored islands and weak paterns A friend with the z9 and 800mm f6.3PF shot for a test on He, maximum compression.. on Photomechanic 6 fine, nothing wrong.. make a jpg via LYN, looks fine, but in real RAW conversion the spots/paterns show everywhere in the sky. Adobe, Topaz Photo Ai terrible , DXO pure raw much better. ( backlight hight contrast images) Back to He* better, but on lossless no more worries. One program can dig deeper than the other. I don't have the file, but the feeling is that it is digital... and the compression that is not well "understood". Or camera internal sloppyness in compression..To low bit And that can even appear in a Windows/apple viewer that already shows spots/paterns and a DXO pure RAW that understands the compresion , or interal camera RAW to jpg conversion does not show problems. Would sensor remapping help? I do not know ... Just some thinking paths to investigate further is the purpose of this response, I do not have the camera /lens set to dive in deeper. Do I misjudge the paterns here shown in the film, that could be possible... ofcourse.. I / we in the group did had irritating patterns ( D7100/z9,K1,EOS 5DsR) over the years and it was all digital in post when trying new software.

[@marcomarcon5802]

I use the Pixel Pro 8, as well as "real" cameras, and I can assure you that when your main lens is a 24mm equivalent, the ability to make big crops on 50MP file and still get excellent results is a godsend

[@ZappaBlues]

A new nickname,... Chris 'FPS' Niccols pronounce 'FIPS' of course. 😆😅🤣

[@johnyoung1606]

I Truly Enjoy!!!!!!! and have watched all of these Long Form Videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)

[@Soundwave857]

20:05 I wonder how Sigma made that focus ring work. If the OG one had linear stepper they must have replaced those with a helicoid focus mechanism and i expect the AF to be super slow or its still Focus by wire but with fixed steps

[@cookedart]

If this helps Chris at all, I work in production of content and have definitely heard "fips" before, outside of Apple.

[@chiraz111]

How do you compare the Leica mentioned here with the X-Pro3 from Fuji? The Fuji was vilified for having a hidden screen; do you think the Leica will fare the same?

[@ianroe1076]

The kinds of people who buy Leica and Fuji are often different - Fuji appeals to people who want classic ergonomics and styling with modern, Sony-like technology. Leica appeals to people who want digital image output and convenience in a camera that otherwise operates exactly like a Leica M7 from 2002 (which is just an electronically controlled version of the M6, which is from 1984). In my personal experience, lots of people who use Fuji cameras use the rear LCD or use an EVF (even in the cameras like the X-Pro or X100 that have very sophisticated OVF modes), so not having a convenient rear LCD is a real slap in the face of people who are used to relying on live view. About $2000 of the price of a new Leica M is the mechanical rangefinder, and I rarely see Leica photographers use live view with the rear LCD or use the external EVF units at all. I doubt they will care, especially because there is a similar M11 on the market with a screen for a similar price. Personally, I don't use the live view function on my M ever, because that's how my film Ms operate. When I used a Fuji, I just tucked away the flip-around screen.

[@Zhiloreznik]

People buy phones by specs. Friend bought a phone with 200mp sony sensor and needless to say photos have a 2mp quality to them. Non photographers don’t know what a 48 or 200 megapixel photos look like on a pro camera. People for that reason don’t see a need to buy a camera.

[@johnbunani1341]

Tony Northrup vs Petapixel: FIGHT!!!

[@niccollsvideo]

Hey I agree with Tony but not to the same degree and not with an attitude that this is a new thing that only Apple is springing on us.

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

​​​@@niccollsvideo He states its not just Apple in his video but he is highlighting Apple because its the phone him and his Wife uses personally so he feels personally wronged by this. You ranted about Quad Bayers sensors some years ago when you were apart of DPReview, I guess being on PetaPixel made you less critical? Edited: Grammar

[@drchtct]

​@@niccollsvideoit's not just about Apple, all of the phone manufacturers do this. My Samsung 50mp camera is a joke, but without videos like that of Tony many people wouldn't think it is before buying. It's important to call out marketing lies to help buyers make informed decisions, especially since the Pro phones got so expensive mostly based on "premium" camera features which aren't premium at all.

[@ShaunakHub]

Yup, hTC One X came with Beats headphones and they were awesome...

[@andreasgiobel6355]

Just had a flashback, my First Motorola smartphone was delivered with 3 batteries and a dual battery charger…that phone just chewed batteries

[@Gremlack13]

I think my first smartphone was also around the time of the htc one. They don’t seem to last long then and I changed phones multiple times until I got an iPhone 4s in late 2010-2011.

[@ripcamera]

Nikon really needs to actually open up that mount. Wanted the Sigma 18-45mm f1.8 on Z mount. Now that Nikon has RED luts, possibly RED cameras with Z mounts... imagine if we don't get the Sigma CINE 18-45 T2. (And on the side note, Nikon still hasn't let Sigma put 18-50mm f2.8 on APSC either, Canon got there first. Can we talk about how ridiculous this is?)

[@heiner71]

My first smart phone was the original "waffle", i.e. blue Blackberry, followed by the newer silver Blackberry and the iPhone 3G

[@MrRoosterx]

You were adopting a smart phone around same time as me, the HTC Desire release q2 2010 in Europe.

[@samohara5187]

Is there a new Insta360 action camera coming up? I think I saw a rumour of fall 2024 for the Ace Pro 2?. Might be worth waiting for that for a three way shootout!

[@davexmit]

Anyone see the video where they told people on the street they’d upgrade their phone to an iPhone 16 and they thought the phone was better, clearer, faster, but it was just their old phone in a case.

[@cinematools]

I got used to judging exposure on Nikon Z6 III by using a waveform monitor without view assist. The view assist is terrible and the official LUTs are bad.

[@ValiRossi]

Monster Jam!!!! Yes!!!!!

[@rasmussen75]

1 smart phone HTC desire, and won it via the Danish provider Sonofon/Telenor and HTC, at the unveiling party for the Desire model, so I was the 1 in Denmark who had that model ;-)

[@SoftKitty0930]

Chris: vindicated

[@WparuSlowach]

The problem with iphone 48mpx is file size, avg. 50mb is still a joke vs quality we get it. Even M43 hi res pictures have similar file size but much more details (different league). 👌🏻

[@charliewaterman816]

Dude... mother. Was like... what?? Then looking it up was like ooo! Ya... totally. 😅

[@stickgarrote8582]

Maybe resolution that’s produced by computation should be called ”metapixels” instead of megapixels, they’re ”based on true events”, not actual recordings.

[@thedarkslide]

19:51 I would recon Australia needs to queue behind Canada still for cool stuff. But since you guys are all Commonwealth, queuing up politely and not complaining about it is your cup of tea. ;)

[@simongoldrick702]

Would love a 28-70/75 shootout but please include the Sony 24-50 in that.

[@PetaPixel]

Great idea!

[@phynx2006]

What the fps is Chris talking about 🤣👍

[@southendsites]

Moto Defy Mini was My first smartphone... Try getting a Mamiya 6 Roll Film camera... Affordable Range Finder... I have one and They are so cool..

[@TravelerNick]

On the LUTs. The technical LUT is worse than just using a CST or colour managed workflow in Resolve. Fine if you want to use it for a viewing LUT on a monitor but for grading? Na. The other problem is bleach bypass doesn't mean a whole lot. Is it a 100% bypass. AKA skipping the bleach step? Or is it a 10% bypass shortening the bleach step. Or is it in between? There is a reason if you shot film you'd do all your testing BEFORE actually shooting anything important.

[@ianbrown704]

Some reviewers will at best sit on the fence if they get to play with the toys early and all expenses paid 🤣🤣🤣

[@eugenegirshtel]

In regards to the "sensor" artifact in the subscriber submitted photo, you guys said the user applied denoising in both the Lightroom and Topaz RAW copies. I think this is the denoising algorithm going a bit haywire as it analyzes sections of the RAW file in block chunks (like a matrix). I've seen this type of blockiness from applying too much denoising but never a distinct square like it was shown here. I think the white flower did something to trip up the denoise algorithm. Can anyone show what the file looks like without ANY denoising/sharpening applied?

[@houserhythm]

They said it's present in the original raw too. Have you listened to the whole bit?

[@eugenegirshtel]

@@houserhythm I watched the section a few times. Jaron mentioned he edited the file a little so not sure if he added some denoise. I don't use lightroom but in Capture one you can send someone an EIP file that contains all of your edits of the raw file; I'm not sure if you could do that in Lightroom and if that was what they were looking at. It would be nice to have access to the original raw file instead of the jpeg from the Petapixel site.

[@yawningmarmot]

Love the podcast, you're all knowledgeable and hilarious :)

[@brianlinton910]

The iPhone still image quality really hasn’t improved dramatically in a long time, that doesn’t account for how much better video is in a tiny little module that doesn’t cost anymore than the older version did when new. Trying to convince anyone that comparing megapixels and image quality is like comparing engine displacement and specific power output. More might mean gooder. Or not.

[@guyjordan8201]

Pronouncing acronyms is such a silly game. FPS becomes fips but why not feps, fops, fups, or even fa-? Well, maybe not the last one.

[@johnsoncityaerialphotograp7201]

It will always come down to sensor size and not megapixels….

[@ianroe1076]

Well, sensor size and technology. A lot of people seem to brush aside APS-C cameras and embrace older, full frame cameras, which does not always produce better results. My Fuji X-T4 had significantly higher image quality than my Leica M Typ 240, just because it was almost a decade newer.

[@swonghobby]

PalmOne Treo is a smart phone too.

[@kjltube]

Yes please to view assist luts Nikon. Please make it happen

[@AadidevSooknananNXS]

Is Jordan's mic clipping?

[@PetaPixel]

That is my bad on the edit. It's an attempt to make all our levels equal but it didn't work well this time. The audio-only version is cleaner, and next week I'll treat them all the same way. Sorry about that. -Jaron

[@AadidevSooknananNXS]

@@PetaPixel No problem! Love y'all podcast

[@michaeloravecz5752]

Although both Google and Apple describe their 48 MP cameras, Apple states "super-high-resolution 48MP ProRAW and HEIF photos with autofocus" and "capture a mesmerizing new level of detail". The latter quote is in BOLD on the apple website. So, Apple marketing is misleading in their promotion text stating a huge resolution improvement due to 48 MP. By comparison Google states "50 MP main camera for incredible image quality." This does not directly imply 'incredible image resolution or detail'. Google also states, "42 MP front camera for super-sharp selfies." Compared to what are the selfies supersharp? It isn't clear.

[@TimSeraphiel]

Apple love reviews that toe the company line.