Not So Slow Rust Bluing

[@flaircraft]

I also had problems with pitting when I followed Cogwheel's instructions. Thank you for taking the time to develop a rust solution that solves that issue! I'll give your method a go next time I blue some parts.

[@richardkramer1094]

If I may give you some advice. If you want a durable finish you must let the chemical do it’s work and that takes time. You must let the rust develop into a fuzz type texture before you neutralize the acid by boiling. No matter what chemical you use to induce rust it should only take you no more than 4 applications of the chemical to get a good dark blue finish. Magnetite (ferrous ferric oxide) is a blue black color. What you are doing in the bluing process is turning ferrous oxide into ferrous ferric oxide but you have to allow time for the ferrous oxide to develop. Take it from a gunsmith, you can’t hurry the process.

[@Jingles4dingles]

Random. I’m doing a build that has original blueing and I have a barrel that’s phosphate parked. Is there a way to make the barrel darker to match the other components without blasting and blueing?

[@richardkramer1094]

@@Jingles4dingles Not really other than keeping it soaked with oil. You can strip the parkerizing off with some Steel White available at Brownells or you can boil it in some Comet scrubbing compound. Parkerizing is the only protectant that is tougher than rust bluing.

[@Robert-em9ny]

I’ve got a shotgun that I’ve sanded the original finish off and it’s starting to rust and don’t know what to do , what is the easiest finish I can apply ?

[@richardkramer1094]

@@Robert-em9ny First get some 0000 steel wool and soak it in acetone to remove the oil coating. Boil the steel parts in water for about 30 minutes. The rust will turn black, gentle rub it with steel wool until it has a luster. Get some Art’s Belgium Blue and apply with a cotton ball, don’t scrub it on just wipe it on, boil rub and repeat until the gun is the color you want. That’s the fastest and easiest I’ve found.

[@Robert-em9ny]

@@richardkramer1094 okay thank you I will give it a try

[@patriciovalenzuela6119]

Amazing video, so simple to use, by comparison to other systems, and beautiful results… Thank you for sharing…

[@richardcontinijr9661]

I have no idea what whey oil is but for anyone interested in rustling bluing used motor oil or small engine oil are good choice's. You don't want to use oil that has detergents in it because it'll take the finish off before it has a chance to set. Also kerosene is a good option. When applying your bluing solution you want to try to apply a thin film and don't overlap on the application for best results.

[@mannys9130]

Used motor oil has detergents in it... When you say "small engine" oil, you're hitting in the right area. That's because most simple small engines call for a straight 30 grade SA oil which has no detergents and no viscosity improvers in it. You can also use pharmaceutical grade mineral oil from Walgreens or similar.

[@richardcontinijr9661]

@@mannys9130 for the purposes of rust bluing the detergent in used motor oil is so degraded that it will not strip the finish off before it has a chance to set. I've been bluing guns since 1987 and doing it professionally since 1995 so I kinda know what I'm talking about.

[@Trust_me_I_am_an_Engineer]

OMG, has no one given you an answer ??. It's way oil and that's oil for oiling the slideways on mill, lathe, etc..

[@1ucasvb]

These people never really fully explain the oils they use, and the terminology is incomprehensible.

[@williamryan1984]

Greetings from Ireland. Many Thanks. William

[@TomMakeHere]

Great work Can't argue with the result. Will remember this for the next project

[@compassprecision]

Good info. Thanks a lot for sharing this video. Looking forward to watching your other stuff.

[@carneeki]

Definitely going to give this a go! Thanks Dan!

[@CraigsWorkshop]

Hi Dan. Great video thanks. I would love to try this on some home made tooling. What strength of hydrogen peroxide solution do I need? I think I can access 3, 6, 9 or 12% at our local hair dressing supply shop. Thanks, Craig

[@Dans-hobbies]

You want the standard 3% antiseptic stuff. You should be able to find it in the first aid section of your local grocery store or pharmacy!

[@CraigsWorkshop]

@@Dans-hobbies thanks Dan appreciate the quick answer. I will grab some next time I am out. Cheers, Craig

[@jensdavidsen4557]

I'm a research chemist...we got the good stuff... 35%...no I haven't tried it and won't try it LOL - it would be guaranteed to pit the surface haha

[@bigoldgrizzly]

@@jensdavidsen4557 ..... but if you wanted an 'antique finish' say on a 'not so old' axe......... ;

[@knifelover73]

1/16 cup is a tablespoon if anyone wants to save the conversion chart.

[@StuartdeHaro]

Nifty stuff, Dan! Thanks for sharing.

[@Dans-hobbies]

Thanks Stuart!

[@robertbrandywine]

What grit did you sand to before starting the bluing process. The result looks really nice and so much quicker than slow rust bluing.

[@Dans-hobbies]

320 grit.

[@TheManamba]

Keeping peroxide in an Amaretto bottle is funny, long as you dont mix up !

[@guytiips3906]

Wow thank a lot this is great job, Inspring me to keep alive my traditional metal work. #Love from Thailand

[@sumerianhunter6283]

Thank you for this great information. May I know what percentage of hydrogen peroxide you used?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Sorry, I was away on vacation. I use the standard 3% antiseptic stuff you can get at any pharmacy.

[@theeastman9136]

Pretty simple thank you and the resulting surface is quite good. One thing though, you did not explain what your « carding » wheel was. I guess it’s fairly important in the finish quality no?

[@HeimoVN]

Excellent video

[@MaximRecoil]

Do you use distilled water to boil the part in or just tap water? And do you use typical iodized table salt or non-iodized salt?

[@Dans-hobbies]

I've used distilled, purified, and tap water and not seen any difference. to be fair my local has a pretty clean watercourse. The salt was iodized.

[@MaximRecoil]

@@Dans-hobbies I'm trying it now with distilled water and non-iodized salt. I can't seem to get the steel past a dark gray color (closer to medium gray than to black). I've repeated it 5 or 6 times, but it hasn't seemed to have gotten any darker since the 3rd or 4th time. I wonder if it's sanded too smooth (I sanded it to 600-grit). Right now I'm going to try letting it sit for an hour after applying the rusting solution to see if that makes any difference.

[@sumerianhunter6283]

Great presentation, great presentation, thank you

[@markmanning2921]

distilled vinegar can be of various percentages, what percentage vinegar are you using?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Standard 5% you will find in a grocery store!

[@karlhansen635]

Nice black. Is this finish a rust preventative?

[@Dans-hobbies]

It's a mild rust preventative, just like it is on guns. It will be fine for normal handling , and storage in non humid climates. However just like with guns, if it's going to be subject to a lot of handling or a humid environment it needs to be aided with a water displacing oil.

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

That poor bug stuck under the lid at 9:00 I hope he's okay :(

[@DigitalVideoFromOz]

I’d mark the bottle saying it contains rust bluing solution. Although not toxic, you still don’t want someone sneaking a drink.🙂

[@patriciovalenzuela6119]

👍

[@janslavsky3680]

Thanks for nice video. What is the abrasion resistance?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Like most other non paint coatings you find on tooling & firearms, fine for handling and what not, but can't take sustained abrasive abuse.

[@suit1337]

so i wonder: can you just boil it directly in the hydrogen peroxide solution?

[@christianthomsen3855]

No. The peroxide solution makes it rust, and heating it would just make it rust faster. Boiling the RUST in water converts the rust into the black oxide.

[@kevinburns8343]

Does boiling in the pot wreak it or stain it / also how long will it stop rusting after making it rust - ok sounds weird with the black coating thanks Kevin

[@Dans-hobbies]

If the the pot/pan is metal (even stainless) it will develop a rust stain over time.

[@zactennyson8419]

interesting. I have always used commercial solutions for 'blueing' steel, but I like this homemade action. Have you tried dipping the part in the solution and then wiping it off?

[@Dans-hobbies]

I haven't tried dipping with the concentration I showed in the video, but I have tried it with a stronger concentration (more salt). It worked in that it rusted the steel, but it was messy because of the strength of the concentration. I think dipping would work, but might be a little slower, as you would probably want a cool part and a very mild solution so you had enough time to wipe of the excess.

[@rickhaass1133]

@@Dans-hobbies I have always been told to not dip and to not get it too wet with the solution - ring your applicator out and use light coats... take that with a grain of salt though... no pun intended.

[@zactennyson8419]

@@Dans-hobbies I suppose it could also have the effect of polluting your solution - you would have to decant a bit for what you want, and it would only be good for that project, so a lot of waste.

[@Dans-hobbies]

@@zactennyson8419 Thankfully the ingredients are so cheap and easy to come by, thats you can experiment. Not to mention this stuff isn't really toxic.

[@jensdavidsen4557]

@@zactennyson8419 you, sir, are correct. Dipping isn't a great idea because you quickly contaminate the solution - you'll have microparticles of rust (hematite) in the solution that will consume the peroxide.

[@samlal9156]

Thanks for sharing the non-aggressive method. I will take it into my workshop. However, I have one query. What % of Hydrogen Peroxide is used 10% or 30% etc?

[@Dans-hobbies]

You want the standard 3% antiseptic stuff. You should be able to find it in the first aid section of your local grocery store or pharmacy!

[@jrdean3374]

@@Dans-hobbies Thank you @dan, i am working on it, it really amazing...

[@TheWrate]

Nicely done!

[@davidrendulic92]

If we can't have access to a tank big enough for a rifle barrel would steaming it from an apparatus used for rust bluing be just as good as boiling it with your mixture?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Unfortunately, No that won't work. The conversion on happened in the absence of oxygen if memory serves. The old school gun methods uses a steam/humidity box to generate the red rust because it uses a very weak chemical solution to cause rust. See this video for example , it's using the traditional method, but still involves boiling! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKazZaBsgZ5ogZY

[@trunorthmusketeer6266]

Thanks for this vid! I've been looking for a way to blue gun parts in the home shop without buying hard to get chemicals or an advanced ventilation set up, I'm going to give this a try. I'm not sure if you'll have the answer to this or not but would a black oxide coating like this make a good priming coat for finishes like Armacoat or Duracoat? Or do you know of anyone who's tried this? Thanks!

[@Dans-hobbies]

I'm sorry but i don't know a great deal about Armacoat or Duracoat. I assume for a finish like that you would want a bright, or blasted part. Blued would be bad i think because blued always involves soaking in oil.

[@littlejackalo5326]

No. Duracoat and Cerakote require a sand blasted, grease free finish. Assuming you mean this process minus the oil soak, because no one's would think using a coating over oil would be a good idea. This process, even without the oil bath would be a terrible primer coat for the Duracoat, or any other sprayed on finish.

[@will7its]

Remind me not to do shots in your garage....lol

[@frankljs]

Why do you wipe it? Why not just dunk it and then boil

[@Dans-hobbies]

If the solution pools up in a spot, the reaction causes bubbles to form and that leads to thick flaky rust that just falls off during the boiling or carding process. I've tried dipping a few times and it's always been a bubbly flakey mess. I think if the solution was weak enough that you could dip it and have the excess drip of before rust starts to form it might work. However, you would probably have to apply more coats to make up for the weaker solution.

[@TheJDiane]

@@Dans-hobbiesGood to know! I tried this process with a steel chain and had no luck. Now I know not to dip it, but to lightly brush it on on

[@stephenrawle3013]

hi, would this method work with any acids that make the steel rust? thx steve

[@Dans-hobbies]

I'm not sure, as my chemistry knowledge isn't that strong!

[@stevecallachor]

Where do you get whale oil??? Stavros

[@frase1234]

From a Whale

[@Dans-hobbies]

Sorry if that didn't sound super clear. I used Way Oil, but really almost any oil will work. For reference this is what i was using. www.mscdirect.com/browse/tnpla/60002151

[@asdafasdafasd]

You gotta label that liquor bottle bub

[@vtbn53]

Great! Thank you, I want to try this, but there are two words you use that I am not familiar with (I only speak English ;-)) - the one that seems to refer to the rotating item on the lathe (which seems to be a buffing wheel or similar) and sounds like you are saying cart (or kart), and the other that refers to the oil and sounds like whale (surely no one has access to whale oil these days?), if you (or anybody) can enlighten me as to what they really are I would be forever grateful).

[@Dans-hobbies]

The wire wheel on the lathe is commonly called a "carding" wheel. I have the 4 row version of this one. www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/wire-brushing-carding-tools/0025-stainless-steel-brushing-wheels-prod6762.aspx I used "way oil", because as an owner of machine tools it a consumable you must have on hand. I currently use Vactra #2. www.amazon.com/Mobil-100772-Vactra-No-2-Way/dp/B07B7XZKVF/

[@phineasj.whoopee3301]

I just use an old toothbrush instead of a carding wheel, you're just removing the loose rust before boiling. He is saying "way oil", used for lubricating the ways (sliding surfaces) on a lathe or mill. Any old oil will do, motor oil works fine. Just something to keep moisture from getting to the surface.

[@DavidR8]

Does this method change the dimensions of the part?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Yes, but only to a very small degree , as you are converting oxides from one form to another.

[@DavidR8]

@@Dans-hobbies Thanks!

[@moonrazk]

Wikipedia says the coating is around 25 micrometers, although I'm sure it'll depend on how many times you repeat the process, so unless unless you're dealing with _really_ precisely machined parts, you don't have to worry. And if you are, what the heck are you thinking, leave those parts alone!

[@wrxs1781]

What percent peroxide 3% or 6%, I use only peroxide on heated parts 6%.

[@Dans-hobbies]

I used standard 3%

[@user-cb1vo1ik4b]

what is the name of the wheel your using to buff

[@Dans-hobbies]

it's called a carding wheel. www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/paint-metal-prep/abrasives-polishing/.0025-stainless-steel-brushing-wheels/

[@zacharyschellinger4769]

What was the amount of water you used?

[@Dans-hobbies]

do you mean for boiling the part? If so, as much as you can, the more thermal mass you have the better.

[@taab7]

Why is it necessary to use the wire wheel in between coatings? Are you not just removing the coating you've just applied by doing this? If you're just abrading the surface for the next coating, wouldn't a light sanding with high grit water paper do the job? (Not everyone has access to a variable speed lathe)

[@Dans-hobbies]

After you boil the part, it will have whats is commonly referred to as rust "fuzz". The fuzz must be removed before you apply the next coat. You don't have to to use a carding wheel, and light abrasive process will work.

[@Northend404]

0000 steel wool degreased in acetone.

[@iotaje1]

When rusting the part surface metal turns into red oxide. Red oxide has a greater volume than steel by weight, so most of it does not stick to the metal. When boiling the rust it turns into black oxide, which is what you want. However since most of the rust was loose you need to scrub it off and repeat the process to obtain an acceptable coating.

[@gregred78]

Using a heat gun is definitely not a way I've seen before, I've seen people using a box qnd a heater before which is a slower way but probably better since you aren't blowing it with a blow dryer. Still a good look the way you went with. Just not quite the same as an actual rust blue on the piece.

[@jlart11]

Hi, thanks for the video. 2 questions 1- I don't have a carding wheel what should I use? 2- If anyone already tested, what is the durability of the blueing on a heavily used piece. thanks

[@Dans-hobbies]

In my opinion, You want to use the softest form of abrasion you can. So, a really fine stainless or brass wire brush, or even a clean rag would work. All you are trying to do is remove the built up loose bits/fuzz. For durability, it depends what you mean by "heavily used". It will hold up as well as any blued gun will. If you are talking a mechanical part or something that's going to see a lot of abrasion you are better served by using a different surface finish like hard chrome, or a different material like stainless.

[@jlart11]

@@Dans-hobbies Appreciate your response, what I mean by durability is turning Petanque soft carbon steel boules into a dark blueish finish. I guess, maybe that is not gonna do the job because the boules are in constant attrition with the ground and other boules. TY

[@bigoldgrizzly]

@@Dans-hobbies I wonder if an new un-stitched cloth buffing wheel run fairly slow would do a good job ??

[@Dans-hobbies]

@Old Grizzly almost anything will work, it's just a matter of how efficient it is.

[@rodneykiemele4721]

What’s a carting wheel?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Carding is the process of removing the loose flaky rust. A carding wheel is basically a wire wheel that uses very fine (0.003" diameter) stainless steel wires. You don't really need one, but it really helps speed up the removal process. This is the model I have. www.midwayusa.com/product/1007082530

[@rodneykiemele4721]

Thank’s so much for the fast reply

[@erasgonehistoricalmolds2400]

@@Dans-hobbies Can you tell us where you got your wheel, how heavy the wire on a carding wheel should be? Thanks, excellent video.

[@Dans-hobbies]

I got my wheel from Midway USA. www.midwayusa.com/product/1007082530 From what I have seen carding wheels are always stainless wire with a diameter of less than 0.005"

[@nwchamp321]

Great video Dan! When you heat the metal are you using a heat gun or boiling the metal in water before applying the darking solution? How durable is this finish. Would it work on a gun barrel?

[@Dans-hobbies]

I always use a heat gun to heat up the part before the first application. for subsequent applications it depends on the thermal mass/cross section of the part. If you the part is thin in cross section you might have to hit it with the heat gun. If its thick in cross section it should hold enough heat from the previous boil that you can apply the next coat imiediatly. It's basically the same process as old school gun bluing, just using different chemicals. I'd recommend you test it out yourself before you try it on a prized firearm.

[@nwchamp321]

@@Dans-hobbies Thanks for the advice. I was looking to blue my Bond Arms Derringer. Wanted to try something different. I'll test this out before I try it on my Bond Arms. Appreciate the info. Stay safe and healthy. Peace

[@redzone1019]

@@jayinscottsdale2001 Actually decided to go a different route. I went with a weathered look using paint to simulate aging. I wanted it to look as though the bluing was coming off due to time. Came out pretty good in my opinion. Looking to purchase the Texas Ranger black ash grips to finish the look. I'll let you know when I upload a video on the completed project. Happy New Year. Stay safe and healthy. Peace

[@nwchamp321]

@@jayinscottsdale2001 Nice, let me know how it goes and post a video. I plan on posting a video on my Bond Arms Snake slayer IV, showing my own custom work. I'll let you know when I do. Thinking of getting a spare 9mm barrel for the Bonds. If you have good results with your project, I might give it a try. Happy New Year bro!

[@redzone1019]

@@jayinscottsdale2001 Hey bro. I recently completed my custom job on my Bond Arms Snake Slayer lV Derringer. It's a little radical, but represents my personal style. Check it out and let me know what you think. Go to KZbin and type in "Redzone101 Radikal tactical pump shotgun" and it'll come up. Stay safe and healthy. Peace

[@alfianandinugroho4062]

Thanks Dan, can I change the oil with nabaty oil or coconut oil?

[@Dans-hobbies]

You probably don't want to use a plant based oil, as it might go rancid over time. Just about any petroleum-based oil should do.

[@alfianandinugroho4062]

@@Dans-hobbies thanks Dan for your answer, one more question. How much percentage of the hydrogen and vinegar that you used on this video?

[@Dans-hobbies]

@@alfianandinugroho4062 1 cup hydrogen peroxide 1/4 cup vinegar 1/16 cup salt (1 tablespoon)

[@TheFlanman10]

What about complex shapes? Like an AK barrel?

[@Dans-hobbies]

I've never tried it, but i don't see why it wouldn't work.

[@brokenarrow967]

I rust-blued my entire underfolder AK, using a different browning solution. It's a lot of work carding all the contours and crannies of an AK

[@komputatek]

What times do you recommend,. Between coating and boiling, between boiling and carding, and between carding and the next coat? It would seem applying a next coat while the metal is warm would be best but I would like clarification. Thanks. 👍

[@Dans-hobbies]

You can boil as soon as the coating is dry. You can card as soon as you are done boiling, and you can apply the next coat as soon as you finish carding the previous one.

[@Vitor_A.]

muito obrigado!

[@nealstockheimer9669]

How do you boil a rifle barrel

[@Dans-hobbies]

you can buy custom tanks and heating units. check out this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKazZaBsgZ5ogZY

[@gungan5822]

Why can't i get a blue that dark on stuff i do? Too much polishing?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Without knowing more about what you are doing it's hard to say. It could be any number of things, not enough coats, not boiling long enough, carding to heavily etc. Additionally some steel grades just don't blacken as easily or as darkly as others.

[@gungan5822]

@@Dans-hobbies I'm guessing it is probably the steel...

[@harryboehm7041]

Having now done rust bluing,i CAN tell you that longer boiling will give you darker coloring.

[@aphale]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could assist me. I'm trying this method to blue a pistol magazine. The issue I'm having is with an uneven first layer, when I apply the solution it doesn't stick as well, instead of forming a "film" there are areas where the steel seems to "repel" it (kinda like water acts on steel). If I do multiple passes I do get the whole piece covered, whoever not evenly. Is this due to not heating the part first? Bad part cleaning? Or perhaps my solution isn't in the right proportions?

[@Dans-hobbies]

Cleanliness could be part of it, or it could be the steel itself, some steels just don't blue as well as others.

[@ghidfg]

are you handling it with gloves after cleaning? it could be oils from your hand transfering to the metal

[@PacForeTravel]

If you brought the metal up to a mirror finish, will this process produce a black mirror finish??

[@Dans-hobbies]

I don't believe so, since you are converting a portion of the surface to rust, I believe it should generate a matte finish to some extent.

[@brokenarrow967]

Mirror is probably not possible, but you can get a bright, polished finish. Card as normal until very dark, and then polish with 0000 steel wool. Apply more solution. Boil, and repeat until you have an even, polished finish.

[@springersshop5839]

What If you want a high gloss finish

[@Dans-hobbies]

You will need to use a different finishing technique, or apply some kind of gloss finish over top.

[@springersshop5839]

@@Dans-hobbies do you think you could get a medium satin finish with this method

[@Dans-hobbies]

@@springersshop5839 Maybe, but it you would need to test it out to be sure. I'd bet it comes down to the steel in question, and how many coats you apply and how strong the solution is.

[@electricannulus8854]

Good video overshadowed by the storage of toxic chemicals in a liquor bottle, especially one with the original jabelling - That's an absolute NO NO. I personlly knew a teen who died drinking from a clearly labled liquor bottle.

[@1Clavdivs]

Hydrogen peroxide solution comes in different strengths 3%, 6%....consumer available Higher grades are restricted What grade are you using?

[@Dans-hobbies]

the standard 3% antiseptic stuff.

[@keithhagler502]

1/16 cup = 1 Tablespoon

[@ashhans1756]

What type of steel is that not stainless is it?

[@Dans-hobbies]

For the video, I used plain old run of the mill 1018, but the process will work on any steel that's capable of rusting.

[@andrimoldyansah1275]

Can you write the inggridient bro

[@Dans-hobbies]

1 cup hydrogen peroxide 1/4 cup vinegar 1/16 cup salt (1 tablespoon)

[@andrimoldyansah1275]

@@Dans-hobbies thanks dans Good luck for you

[@cankurdzen4287]

rust bluing solution ?????

[@Dans-hobbies]

1 cup hydrogen peroxide 1/4 cup vinegar 1/16 cup salt (1 tablespoon)

[@cankurdzen4287]

@@Dans-hobbies Thank you, my friend. I don't know much English, so I didn't expect a reply. I thank you agai

[@memsley1961]

can you let the parts sit overnite?

[@Dans-hobbies]

If you mean in the solution, I would say probably not, as it would most likely continue to eat at the surface.

[@memsley1961]

@@Dans-hobbies No I mean after I card it but have to wait till the next day to put on the next coat will it continue to rust over night

[@memsley1961]

@@Dans-hobbies also what did you boil the barrel in that was long enough?

[@Dans-hobbies]

@@memsley1961 No, if you have thoroughly boiled the part and carded off the fluff it will be fine till the next day.

[@memsley1961]

@@Dans-hobbies thanks for the info!