Not Such A Grand Design | RV Roof Problems | The Downside To Fulltime RV Life!

[@Spoolingturbski]

I’m so grateful for these videos. My wife and I looked at a grand design reflection this week, and the sales rep talked about how it’s quality was second to none, come to find it’s been purchased by Winnebago and the mission they set off with had changed.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Yes they are not what they used to be! Our advise is find the floor plan you like and search for a quality used one! Use the money you saved over a new one to make any repairs yourself and never rely on a warranty or the dealer to help you! That is what we did and 2 years of fulltime use we have never had to give our home up, and even with repairs we are still less invested than a new unit!

[@GimpyCamper]

I put an RV armor roof on my cougar when it was 1 year old. People thought I was crazy but after seeing how my thin TPO roof was and how it stretched under my feet I was paranoid. I have had a few little areas I had to go over and I added an antenna last week. I’m so happy that I went with this product

[@PavingNewPaths]

We love RV Armor! We also were not impressed with the stock roof and how thin it was! Once we had issues we decided to fix it once for ever! Our next RV will have RV Armor put on from day one!

[@johnnypickler5002]

How do I get in contact with this company? I am sold! I want our Tpo ripped off and replaced like yesterday!

[@GimpyCamper]

@@johnnypickler5002 Given that this isn't my channel I won't post my referral link here but I'd be willing to bet there is a referral link in the video description that gives you a $100 discount

[@bugsinthegrille6414]

Had same issue with our 2020 painted Momentum - flapped open at joint between front cap and roof. Grand Design blamed their paint contractor and fixed it for us. But it happened again within days. We finally abandoned the original roof and did RV Armor. We love it now.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We ran into so many people just like yourself that had Grand Designs and told us the same story! They fixed it but it failed again quickly and almost all of them ended up with RV Armor as the final solution!

[@aricellis]

It's a bummer to hear many Grand Design models are leaving the factory with bubbling roofs. Of course GD calls this "perfectly normal", but anyone watching this industry knows there are no acceptable reasons why an RV roof should be bubbling on delivery day, or fail after 5,000 miles from general wear and tear. RV Armor proves you can install a lifetime roof by taking your time and focusing on quality.

[@jesseredfield8194]

Im tired of companies claiming normalcy with shyte work. I bet it is normal. Lol

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for Watching! We also agree if a smaller company will offer a lifetime warranty, why can't the manufacturer! Likely because they deliver them with a roof that they cannot stand behind!

[@michaelcorey9890]

So much for their exhaustive PDI inspection

[@floridadog7773]

The thickness of that roof system that U pulled up was like a surgical glove .... Pure garbage... They want Beaucoup Bucks for pure garbage 🗑️

[@tomclose6643]

they aint that grand trust me had numerous issues my 2800bh very disappointed

[@TC-nn7xk]

At 13:35 you're reinstalling the AC and I see the RV Airflow Systems mod. The diverter plate that is between the AC and the lower outer housing should be removed when using the mod per the RV Airflow System install instructions. If the factory did it that way it was an install oversight or they wanted to leave it in case the end user wanted to remove the mod. You'll see better airflow with the diverter plate removed. A good technique is to use duct or foil tape on the inside of the lower housing to hold the dump valves closed since they have no use with the mod in. That way they don't vibrate open and allow air to bypass the filters.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for the info! We actually didn't know that plate was not needed when using the RV Airflow system!

[@jesseredfield8194]

This video needs more attention. The main reason. Main reason we want to upgrade trailers is the roof. I never considered them to be shyte from the factory. Wow. RV Armor. Will have my business shortly after we upgrade. Thank you so much.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! If you have the roof done from day one it could be a cheaper option than waiting until you have a problem!

[@PavingNewPaths]

*** Discount Code for RV Armor*** Tell them you saw the video on Paving New Paths to get $100 off your roof

[@judyswanson1508]

Now I understand why so many RV's have ceiling leaks. With that being said, I now know more things to look at and for potential problems, as I've been searching for a used travel trailer for quite a while. Knowledge is power, thank you for this informative video!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you for watching! Good luck with your search!

[@Goingnorth751]

@@PavingNewPaths The day I brought my new camper home, 2009 Keystone Passport 290 BH, I used eternal bond on every seam, fans, vents and all. including the slide, still no leaks or issues 12+ years later. Heard on the RV forums lots of delamination issues on my model before I bought it but wanted the floor plan no mater issues others had. I will do the same with eternal bond again no mater the brand we get next time, maybe 5 more years from now. Although my roof you have to lay down on to spread your weight or you would break through. Really make cleaning the a/c coils fun.

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@Goingnorth751 We love our Grand Design and would still buy it again. If I had to do it again I woulf have put this roof on day one and been done worrying about it!

[@PWN_Nation]

This is a problem across the industry. We looked at dozens of RV dealer lots across the southwest, and most times the dealer had never been on the roof to even know the condition. When I'd climb up to take a look, it was appalling the number of roof membranes that were failing...

[@PavingNewPaths]

We started to see so many campers on the road with the roof having the air bubble when driving! We always wondered how they don't know. We were at a rest area when we found out it was happening to us, when I got to the campground after setting up, I went on the roof to take a look and the roof was as if nothing was wrong! It was lying flat with no bubbles or slack in the Vinyl! Eventually it became a problem as we traveled for almost 6 more months before we had it repaired! In the end I had maybe 400 ft. of eternabond tape across the front cap transition just to help keep the vinyl from completely separating!

[@jasonschaeffer72]

This is a great video. But I came here to see the process of removal and installation and to learn more about the product.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks! Because this process and the materials are proprietary to RV Armor, I was only allowed to show before and after each step! We could also discuss each step but I was not allowed to show any of the process while it was happening!

[@tomhuk67]

I also had RV Roof Armor do my Roof in 2018 and could not be happier.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We think that they should offer this or something similar from the factory! I would definitely pay for the option! Our next RV will have this roof put on from day one!

[@jacquetaylor2714]

Excellent info! Thank you! Love how you talked to us like we were with you.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for the feedback and for watching! Glad you enjoyed this style of video!

[@carlosharrison7616]

Thanks for uploading this! We need more KZbinrs to be honest and forthcoming with the shady quality of even some of these higher brand RVs.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We live in ours fulltime so we do use it more than most! It has held up well but be prepared to work on something everytime you move!

[@nathanurick8320]

It’s doesn’t matter how much money you spend, all rv’s are very poor quality and it’s because we keep buying them as is instead of demanding better craftsmanship. I seen a slide fall out of a $750,000.00 tiffin last year.

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@nathanurick8320 I agree if we keep buying them they will keep making them!

[@MetalDetectingwithPete]

Great Video. We had thought about doing this on our last RV. There is a do it your self version called Crazy Seal, but you would really need to be comfortable with you abilities. I think having them do it, is the way to go. Thanks for sharing!

[@PavingNewPaths]

We explored the DIY, but in the end decided that having them do it with the lifetime warranty was the way to go!

[@sheilacaine3962]

That was great. Looks good so far. I know you feel good after being able to clean everything too. Great idea.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Yes it definitely needed to be cleaned! Thanks for watching!

[@lonnielawson4557]

Thanks for showing us the company that repaired your roof l'll use them my roof on my motor home fails.............

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching! They are a great choice for ensuring your roof will last!

[@mikec8123]

Are there more than one company called RV Armor. I googled it and the process on the website did not remove the old roof. They applied a primer and topcoat. Can't see how this would help if the old roof has bubbles.

[@PavingNewPaths]

No there is only one company called RV Armor! They base each job on the conditions of the existing roof! We paid the fee to have the entire old roof removed and their roof applied directly to the wood! Not all roofs will need this done, but we felt that it was best to have none of the old roof on there when the new roof was installed!

[@lonnielawson4557]

Our 2014 Grand Design 5th wheel had no issues with the roof or anything but when Wenabago (sp) bought out Grand Design the quality went down fast. We did the factory tour 2 years ago and they slap them together just like all the rest. We think when Grand Design first started they took more time in building them but when all the orders came in because it was good company with a good a god product they started to slap them together to keep . We sold our 5th wheel and now have a 30' motor home and are just as happy while traveling.....

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching! I believe they started out as a good company doing things the right way! I have also heard since they were bought out things are not what they used to be!

[@fordracer1415]

@@richardkoch8752 have you not seen AZexpert’s videos every winnie built in the last ten years is garbage no roof structure what so ever just foam and a thin layer of luan

[@ykv6840]

Thank you for being so up front and zero BS.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you for watching! I appreciate the comment!

[@gergemall]

Thank you very much for your video . I need to redo my vintage travel trailer roof . This is helpful.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! This roof is amazing, and we now only have to get up there to inspect and clean it!

[@BK-js1hh]

We have a 2017 Forestriver 3825FL Cardinal and after a year and a half I saw water leaking out around the pin box when it was raining. I said WTF? So I climbed up on the roof and the roofing that attaches to the front cap was separated and water was leaking into the front cap a draining off around the pin box. I took it to the dealer to have it re-roofed. Forestriver wouldn't re-roof it but they repaired it and looks like crap but doesn't leak. So far so good but the roof has 2 long creases where the roofing isn't flat on the roof. I plan on keeping this RV fifth wheel and now might want to get the roof replaced now after seeing this video. 😊 thanks for showing this. I installed an airbag pin box and I believe it helps in taking the edge off them huge bumps on these bad roads in California. Interstate 5 sucks. People that have roof problems like this might want to consider in replacing the pin box with an airbag system.

[@PavingNewPaths]

I think you would be happy with the RV armor roof. We no longer worry about our roof when traveling or when it rains! Our choice was to deal with dealer or manufacturer to put the same sub par roof on or spend the money to fix it forever.

[@BK-js1hh]

@@PavingNewPaths amen to that. These RV's are investments and gotta keep them up especially if it has anything to do with the roofing.

[@PavingNewPaths]

If you decide to go the RV Armor route, mention Paving New Paths for a discount they are giving our viewers!

[@BK-js1hh]

@@PavingNewPaths excellent!! thanks much. I emailed the company to find out where in Tucson or Phoenix Arizona to take it to. I need to hire experience.

[@PavingNewPaths]

They will come to you wherever you are!

[@nevadalamont82]

Still have wikles up on front cap

[@PavingNewPaths]

No! The RV Armor roof removed the existing stock vinyl roof and installed their roof over the entire RV! We have not had a single issue with our roof in 5 months now! We made a follow up video on the roof after it cured you can check it out here! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZLXdJaVgculfrs

[@inthesun3884]

Wow - this proves the cost of the RV doesn't necessarily promise quality. We paid about $15,000 for a brand new 28' Aspen Trail 6 years ago. We never had problems with the roof. The only issue we had was our outdoor faucet cracked and ruined our outdoor kitchen counter. Easy replacement. My husband said this is clear indication that GD and the companies building RV's that do this aren't watching their employees or quality control.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We have spoken to so many fulltime families and have found that across the board all the manufacturers are similar in build nowadays! While it is unfortunate that our roof needed to be replaced so soon, overall, we a very impressed with how our Grand Design has held up to Fulltime life!

[@icare7151]

It’s a great idea to remove the front and rear caps before installing new roof so to properly seal the transition from the cap to the new roof and to fix any unknown water leaks, damage and missing insulation revealed once the caps are removed.

[@Marcobelluchi-xl3gc]

Thank you so much for such great videos and honest infornation. You are one very few youtubers spreading the truth! Thank to you videos, I am changing my mind about buying "GD". I looking for other manufacturers now!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Glad you liked the videos, we film everything exactly as it is, the good and the bad! Almost all major brands build these trailers the same! Find a floorplan you like and then find which brand offers the best version of that! Just know if you use it like we do fulltime you will have more repairs and maintenance than normal use!

[@michaelwaller6093]

Unfortunately, Grand Designs isn’t so grand after all. I’m surprised at how many videos are on KZbin showing serious issues with the Grand Design product line. It’s unfortunate that people have to spend the amount of money for the initial purchase, and then have to spend another ton of money for repairs that never should have happened in the first place. Good on you for fixing it the way it should have come from the factory.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We were disappointed that after only 6 months of fulltime use we already needed a new roof! For what these cost they should put this type of roof on from the factory!

[@walkerlucas]

@@richardkoch8752 No it isn't. And yes it is.

[@grandpied]

Roof failure is the grand design.

[@VideoByPatrick]

Hwo is Nate, does he have a rv repair shop in Florida ?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Nate is the RV Armor Technician that did the work of removing and replacing our roof! RV Armor will send a technician to where ever you are to repair your roof!

[@jefflancaster9221]

my2021 had these bubbles it's a Grand design reflection

[@PavingNewPaths]

We originally noticed the radius seemed loose! Then the front cap area to the first A/C would blow up when traveling! We decided to fix the roof for good out of pocket rather than have the same stock roof installed!

[@jefflancaster9221]

was grand design going to replace it under warranty

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@jefflancaster9221 We are the second owner so they don't really care! The dealer said they wouldn't and wanted us to do an insurance claim that was $12K to replace the roof with the same stuff! We spend $7500 out of pocket to get a lifetime roof with RV Armor!

[@rvlifediy]

Makes sense since Grand Design is owned by Winnebago. Winnebago has had the same problem with their fiberglass roofs for many years. Unfortunately I never heard about it until after I purchased it. Even when brand new 1st owner, they try get out of warranty work. I had sealant failures after 6 months and check all areas where air will get under the fiberglass on a regular basis. These manufacturers need to get it together. Thanks for sharing the process.

[@PavingNewPaths]

It's sad that their products fail so soon after purchase, or at all, honestly! For what they cost, you think the quality would be better!

[@theoriginalrjt21]

My 2018 GDRV 303RLS started doing this recently. Seems they're not glued properly.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Ours did it about 3 months into our fulltime traveling journey! It lasted another 6 months before we fixed it but it was getting worse with every move!

[@VishenkaSladkaya]

My RV still under warranty and GD just decline our request for fixing roof. They said it’s OUR FAULT 😮2.5 months our RV stayed on dealership yard and nothing done. Now we have a huge headache,we have no idea what to do. People should stay away from Grand Design as far as possible.

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@VishenkaSladkaya They all have the same roofs and will use any reason not to fix it! In the event they do fix it they put the same roof on! We didn't feel like spending the money to have the same sub par roof installed! So we paid to have a lifetime roof put on! I will be installing this on day one of my next RV!

[@dansklenicka8403]

This is why when i buy my next RV ATC will be the brand, one piece aluminum skinned roof. No wood and rubber roof membrane. We where living on our 35’ fifth wheel full time and had the roof replaced big disruption had to take it in for the repair..

[@PavingNewPaths]

That is why we went with RV Armor! They come to you and do the job! We were only out of the trailer for three days during this process! As for us we will be putting this roof on our next RV Day one!

[@dansklenicka8403]

@@PavingNewPaths Thanks for the reply, i did like the video and the process. Customer service coming to you is fantastic. I think we got ten years out of our roof.. Will keep this company in mind if i do buy a normal RV..

[@tylerarrigoni7700]

I'll probably do this proactively when the RV is brand new. Makes sense.

[@PavingNewPaths]

If you contact RV Armor and mention Paving New Paths, you'll receive $100 off! Definitely better to be proactive about it!

[@johnmalecki3893]

Thanks for sharing this. Great to hear there is a quality after market solution.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching! We believe any aftermarket solution is better than the factory delivered roofs!

[@kennethcole9896]

Big shout out to Nate extremely professional thanks for the very helpful info well done

[@PavingNewPaths]

Yes Nate was awesome and a good sport for letting me film him working!

[@andymarcus2081]

Great video, I lose a lot of sleep worrying about me roof. You did not help showing how inadequate these membranes are covering my home however love the idea of some good options. I hope you do some followups on durability as you travel. Have fun and keep camping.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching! Our research involved countless other horror stories from people we met during our travels. After hearing what they went through and allowing me to get up on the roof and see how these coating looked helped make our decision!

[@PNWWanderer83]

So on my Eagle, I had the same thing going on; the dealer attempted to fix it multiple times. I finally just bit the bullet and went with the Flex Armor Roof. While I was talking with the tech, they said they don't know about Jayco, but on the GD, the roof would do what yours did because the king pin box is open all the way up to the top. So while going down the road, it would suck air up through the back of the pin box and blow out at the transition strip.

[@PavingNewPaths]

I am not sure I can buy into that completely as the part of the roof around the transition strip was still down, it was about a foot back from there all the way to the front A/C that was bubbling up! There was also a few bubbles happening along the radius in multiple areas along the RV! We are glad that we went with RV Armor and have had it now for around 18 months with no more roof issues or maintenance to worry about!

[@DeeDeeDIY]

New roof! Here's to no more bubbles.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We hope so! We watched that bubble for 9 months!

[@XPLORCAMPER]

Thanks for a great informative video. Grand looking roof now...

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks so much!

[@carlholttum9150]

I am glad that i run in to this video to know there is a remedy to the lose roof.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Glad you found it, too! If you contact RV Armor and mention Paving New Paths, you'll receive $100 off your cost!

[@carlholttum9150]

@@PavingNewPaths I. I don’t think my roof is coming up yet but it is good to know that there is someone out there that can replace them if it does. I have see several trailers on the highways here in Texas with there roofs blowing up in the air but there has not been a way to tell them they have a problem because they are normally going the other direction on the highway.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We see them all the time, too! Thank goodness we noticed ours at a rest area one day! Glad your roof is still intact!

[@OOMAN]

That really sucks! I wonder what changed over the years? My old camper is a 1994 Damon Escaper, which looks like it has the original roof on it. I could see where there was some sealant applied around perimeter and penetrations over the years, but it's still solid. Gonna add walking the roof to the list of things to do on the Seismic next weekend!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Our roof construction is still solid but the way they glue and secure the membranes to the roof is not very good! I walk our roof every move and this still happened on a move day!

[@OOMAN]

@@PavingNewPaths I was thinking that it might have something to do with the "environmentally friendly" adhesives not being as good/holding up, or thinner roofing materials. Still, what a disappointment! When I rebuilt the old Damon, I sealed all the joints and windows up with silicon caulk. I won't use anything water based/latex on anything. Always shrinks and dries out. I'll do the same on the Seismic if/when it needs it. I'm putting a note in my log about this roofing product. Thanks for the info!

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@OOMAN Thanks

[@shanebrown2963]

Should of showed more of the actual process of the new roof being applied.

[@PavingNewPaths]

At RV Armors request they did not want me filming the process or step by step. If your interested they have that on their website!

[@WeretheRoberts]

That's a pretty spectacular fix, man... There's a place close to here (I think Flex Armor is their name) but they do replacement roofs also... I'm sooooooo tempted to just go get it done so we can stop worrying about the front cap area... You asked all the right questions at the end so anyone watching this video would be 100% up to speed on this process... Very cool video, buddy. I'm not sure how we've just recently found your channel. Wish we'd found it sooner but now I have a bunch of past videos to catch up on... lol God bless you guys and thanks for this info..

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank for watching and for the kind words! Flex Armor was our other choice, but you have to take the RV to them. Tha's why we went with RV Armor because they'll come to you!

[@WeretheRoberts]

@@PavingNewPaths yea that would definitely be a big deal. Cool stuff

[@PavingNewPaths]

*** Discount Code for RV Armor*** Tell them you saw the video on Paving New Paths to get $100 off your roof

[@WeretheRoberts]

@@PavingNewPaths holy crap, wow!!! Thanks, man!

[@iminoccacitizen7861]

A couple of months ago I bought a 2005 Winnebago Journey, on our second overnighter (3 weeks after the purchase) our Filon roof peeled off! I considered having a new Filon roof installed but after doing a little research I had a Flex armor roof installed, there's a dealer in my town. It was expensive but not more that I was quoted for Filon and I have no doubt the Flex Armor will last longer that I will. For what these RVs cost the factories, all of them, could and should do better. AZ RV Roof did mine and I couldn't be happier.

[@alexg97343]

I have heard nothing but good from rv armor. Looked great!

[@PavingNewPaths]

We have had it for five months now and it has been awesome! My next RV I will have this put on day 1!

[@jeffbushman6080]

Glad you got a new roof, but it would have been nice to see all the process as he was putting new roof on. Not just parts of it.

[@PavingNewPaths]

At RV Armor's request, they asked me not to film their step-by-step process, only the before and afters. However, you can go to their website and KZbin channel to see to see a step-by-step process.

[@ZeebNinja]

Wow..thank you for sharing your experience!!! It was very interesting to see what is involved with a project like this.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching! We wanted to show that this is a better replacement option than the stock roof but either way the process involves alot of disassembly and prep work!

[@perecarl12]

We are being told that the tape you see at the front cap edge is made of mylar. They say that Mylar does not adore the roof glue therefore there will always be a bubble there. Same as for all other roof edges. We are still going back and forth with Grand Design

[@PavingNewPaths]

We don't have tape on ours? we have once piece that is suppose to be glued and pulled tight! It is then held on the front and back with a strap and the sides with the gutters! Then they goop dicor on all bolt heads and call it a roof! Our new roof has a lifetime warranty and is one solid sealed membrane!

[@chuckmckee2741]

I’m glad I watched this. No RVs for me with this type of roofing system. No I now . Great video. Especially a manufacturer that doesn’t stand behind their work.

[@PavingNewPaths]

The bad thing is this is the type of roof you will find on 90% of the RV's made today!

[@chuckmckee2741]

@@PavingNewPaths I have seen new roofing systems on Jaycos that have caught my interest. We are looking at RVs and this video helped us so much. Thank you. Good stuff.

[@dar7771]

Very nice. Will definitely go with them if I need a new roof. Was cracking up on him commenting on the eternabond. That stuff is garbage after about a month and extremely hard to remove.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! RV Armor has been great for us! That Eterna bond tape saved our roof until we were able to get back to Texas and make these repairs! It was on there for almost 9 months!

[@samplays4421]

Yep, same issues with bubbles on the roof upon delivery of my new 2021with my Grand Design. I pointed it out immediately before accepting it. I was told it's normal and they ( Blue Dog RV) would watch it. Update 2022 bubbles are worse and we are fighting to have it repaired. Now they are saying it can be fixed at our expense. I keep this RV covered through the winter and check the seams regularly and add sealant as needed. My previouse RV by Forest River did not have any issues with the roof as I maintained it extremely well over the 10years I owned it. It was still in great shape when I sold it.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We were also told it can be fixed at our expense! It would have been a $12,000 insurance claim! Its not a better roof its the exact same roof that just failed! We decided if we had to spend money, might as well put a lifetime warranty roof on the RV.

[@KJRitch]

I’ve noticed a lot of KZbinrs who own Grand Design have had major issues, many have had axle issues.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We definitely keep an eye on our axles! And I think, no matter the brand, there are issues with any rv!

[@larryfoster6072]

And when you replace the skylight air condition you have to take it back to them to get them to seal it or your warranty is voided

[@PavingNewPaths]

The air conditioner has its own gasket so I don't need them to change that. But if I need to change out a sky light or max air fan all I need to do is call them and they will send a tech to me to help change it out and reseal the roof intrusions.

[@larryfoster6072]

If that air condition comes off the roof in anyway you will have to have it resealed gasket or not and you will pay for it and you will have to take it to them as well as a vent or max air fan I know from experience

[@timinsandiego6979]

Excellent video and you asked all the right questions. Happy travels

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching!

[@x3dominator28]

Six thousand dollars is a fantastic deal for the amount of labor that was completed. I’m going to plan on doing this as preventative maintenance on my toy hauler in the near future

[@PavingNewPaths]

It is a great system, and if done before you have any major issues or water damage it is still affordable!

[@PavingNewPaths]

*** Discount Code for RV Armor*** Tell them you saw the video on Paving New Paths to get $100 off your roof

[@oldkoot5828]

And that 5th wheel is a beast too!

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@oldkoot5828 Thanks!

[@humbertoduran2747]

Great video 📹. I had flex amor roofing installed on our 2021 jayco... 👌

[@PavingNewPaths]

It came down to RV Armor or Flex Armor for us. Since we live full time in our RV, having to take it somewhere didn't really work for us so we went with RV armor!

[@RC-hm9vg]

My issue all along after owning 4 trailers is how the manufacturers speed through the build on EVERY TRAILER NO MATTER THE BRAND OR ASSUMED VALUE! They need to slow the hell down and do it right the first time. Even the wood shavings that you see in most of the units bug the crap out of me! I have recently had to replace a barn door hanger on my Alpine because it fell off. Very annoying!

[@PavingNewPaths]

They are all built by the same people in the same town in Indiana. Our Grand design has had problems but I would still buy another one because it has held up to full time living.

[@oldkoot5828]

I could not agree more. They build them as fast as the pizza guy.

[@SVT_LIGHTNING]

Our 2022 gd 3100rd has the roof just like yours but not in one spot but all across the roof. Dealer said it’s normal. Guessing it’s not?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Once I discovered our problem, I started noticing small bubbles or loose areas all along the radius areas of the entire camper! If I had to do it all over again, I would have put this kind of roof on day one and never thought about it again!

[@zilann673]

was disappointed that didn't really get to see the RV armor process. The finished product looked nice but looked like any other RV roof. I have no idea what makes RV Armor superior to any other RV roof. It was however interesting to see the process taking the old roof coating off. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@PavingNewPaths]

At RV Armors Request they did not want me showing a step by step of the roof process! Instead, I was allowed to talk about the steps and show a before and after! They install a fiberglass type membrane down on the wood and apply two base coats on that! Then they come back with the thick rubber final coat! I was really confused by the request not to show the process, because they have step-by-steps of the job on their KZbin channel!

[@healdiseasenow]

Yup I have a 1988 allegro motorhome galvanized steel roof still like new.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thats awesome that it has made it this long! Shows you they don't make them like they used to!

[@tamarashaw9518]

Friends bought a new 2022, first time out, the slide would not go all the way back in. Thankfully was able to drive home. We drove behind them. Went to dealer, took 6mos. To fix. He sold it. Was a grand design fifth wheel. 28ft.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Yikes!

[@Freightmeister]

Wish you’d have videod some of the actual application process.

[@PavingNewPaths]

At RV Armor's request, I was allowed to talk about the process but not show any video of it!

[@barryackerman3331]

On a recent trip to Florida, I seen 2 fith wheels on 95 with the roofs blowing up like balloons ...

[@PavingNewPaths]

We used to see them and wonder how they didn't know! Turns out we didn't know either!

[@ricktaylor6373]

Excellent video on your roof, good info and I’m truly sorry you had to replace it. Now if you’ve schwinntek slides get rid of them when ya got Spare coin.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! It is unfortunate that we had to replace it so soon! Our main slides are hydraulic, but our bedroom is a schwintek Slide!

[@GLAMP_Ride_and_ThRiVe]

Great Video you will have to give us a 6-month review and let us all know how it is holding up after 6-months

[@PavingNewPaths]

Will do, we are also interested in seeing how it holds up over time.

[@CenturionSilver]

With my GD being a 2019 I hope to not have this issue but am pretty confident I will . Thanks for the referral.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Ours was a pre-covid built, too (2020)! Glad there's a better solution than the factory roof!

[@railroadfansandfun]

I love format of your videos! Very informational and you keep my attention (which is difficult! 😃)! Thanks for sharing and safe travels! 🚂

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! I try to show how the day is going without it getting too boring or dull, but still show the progress!

[@Reaglesracing44_]

looks like they just put on henry’s top coat right over the plywood

[@PavingNewPaths]

I was not allowed to film every step of the process, But they put down a fiberglass type cloth that they call thier membrane! Then it is two coats of the base material and a final thick coat of a rubber type product! It takes two weeks to cure and the final product is like a rubber feeling truck bedliner! We have been very happy with the new roof!

[@Reaglesracing44_]

@@PavingNewPaths very interesting!! i love the way it came out

[@PavingNewPaths]

The final product has impressed us we did a follow up video after it cured and we could walk on it!kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZLXdJaVgculfrs

[@fredhinck9685]

The Arizona sun must really do a number on the adhesive used.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Not sure if it was the Arizona Sun we just noticed it on our travel to Arizona!

[@BrianAz]

Grand Design and other brands have suffered this. Its a shame and of all things to not hold up, the roof is really the part of your coach that gets never ending contact with the harshest parts of nature! My friend at work has a 5th wheel, same size called the Attitude by Eclipse and he had the same problem. Insurance denied the claim saying it was a "maintenance" issue, what a joke. Word games with the contract and all. The manufacturers will fight you over this kind of repair even if its under warranty so be prepared. He also got the RV Armour and loves it and had nothing but great things to say about the installer and appreciates the warranty as well. This is something everyone with an RV like this needs to be aware of and I find it to be a sad, sad strike against the manufacturers who are not building their roof better. It was a $6500 bill for my friend a couple years ago so I know its even more than that these days. I do have a question, when you put the new "Max Air" fans in, I saw that you put the inside casing up, screwed it in, and added no sealant or anything before installing the casing. I know the rubberized roofing is great and all, but would it not be smart to seal around where the fan makes contact from the inside as well for added leak prevention? Or did you do that off camera?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank for watching! Yes the price was a little more now than what your friend paid but it was still significantly less than the dealer reinstalling the same horrible stock roof! That being said we think at this RV price point the stock roof should be better from the factory!

[@lemichaeljohnson2069]

Grand design is overpriced junk. Roof delamination, frames breaking. Etc. just junk.

[@barrypessolano1468]

We had this done on our 2007 Teton , well worth the money and time 😎👍

[@PavingNewPaths]

We love this roof! Just wish they would install something like this from the factory!

[@bozerbrett7867]

I’ve been shopping for a Grand Design but with their axle problems and the roof problems I have changed my mind. I’m hearing good reviews about Northwood Mfg and Outdoors RV that are made in Oregon.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We have not had any axle or suspension issues, however that's likely because we installed the Morryde Crossmembers, heavy duty shackles and wet bolts before we began traveling! But we did have to get a new roof in the first year of owning it and the bottom of the camper fell off while driving! We made a video on that as well you can check it out here! kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGGuc6anh66FZ7s

[@joewhitfield2252]

I’ve been living in my Nash for 2 years not even 1 problem..

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@joewhitfield2252 Thats great to hear that your camper is performing!

[@bozerbrett7867]

@@joewhitfield2252 that’s good to know. Seems like they focus on quality versus mass production.

[@glennstamps346]

I noticed your ac units have the ac airflow system installed but you are reinstalling the lower baffle plates which are unnecessary and actually restrict your airflow. My Grand Design Reflection was done the same way from the factory. If you go to the every airflow KZbin page or their website you will see that plate should not be reinstalled. This should make your ac more efficient and help the airflow. Good luck and we loved the video on the roof and will be looking into replacing our roof with this once we see the signs that you did.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We never knew that! Thanks! And if you ever use RV Armor mention Paving New Paths for $100 off!

[@biotoxin99]

WE now have a new roof on our 2022 xls lde, after 3 trips screws were coming thru the and the roof seemed extremely weak. Under warranty and 5.5 months later we have her back home. Rv country Sequim Washinton did the most amazing job. Grand design took for ever to get hours approved. The trusses had to be worked on , staples and screws were missing the structure completly and some screws had been filed off. The plywood was partical board. Now we have strong trusses, mahogany plywood beautiful smooth roof , no bubbles and sealant that does not pick up leaves and pine needles because it was so sticky. Your roof should not be full of bubbles, NOT NORMAL. Happy campers now. But we did loose a half year of warranty

[@PavingNewPaths]

We are the second owner of a rig that was only 6 months old, but Grand Design and the Dealer were not help, said the warranty was only for the original owner! The dealership also quoted $12,000 to put the same subpar roof that could fail the same way and is very prone to damage from trees! We decided to remove Grand Design or the Dealership from the equation and went with RV Armor! It was half the price, and comes with a lifetime warranty, there is also no more dicor, or Maintenace other than cleaning it every 6 months!

[@davidhamel2663]

My roof bubbled up as well on my new 22RBE. We pressed all of the bubbles large and small down by hand and they seem to be holding. Probably due to the solar panels we mounted on the front of the roof. The roof oddly has much thicker wood on the front third than the back two thirds. This was a problem when mounting the solar panels. We won't get into the unstapled vinyl in the vents, the misaligned drawers, the bent steps, the screws that punched through the exterior wheel vinyl, the multiple 6 inch holes drilled under the kitchen cabinets for wiring, the open to attic a/c vents (explained why the a/c would not cool even though the air was cold), etc. Would I buy another one, no. I would look elsewhere. I thought I was buying a quality trailer. I did not take the trailer back to the dealer as I have heard horror stories about trailers being in dealerships for a long time and instead repaired things myself. BTW, Grand design said I could not replace my recalled pressure regulator my self because the dealer had to do a bleed down test on it per DOT. After waiting months they called me to service it. After the tech was done I asked him if he did the bleed down test and he said "yep" and held up his spray bottle of soap. I was livid and stormed into the store to complain. Apparently they are not into following DOT requirements. Did I mention the microwave not mounted into the wood correctly..................

[@PavingNewPaths]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck! We have had our share of issues, but all were minor compared to needing a new roof so soon! We wanted to show there are better options for repairing the roof than the manufacturer or the dealership!

[@robertburgess6100]

Should of showed more of how he seald along the side terminations, front and rear terminations and vents.

[@PavingNewPaths]

At RV Armors request I was not allowed to show the process. They tucked their membrane under the front and rear caps, as well as under the gutters. They then applied their two base coats and final coat over the caps and gutter seam.

[@robertburgess6100]

@@PavingNewPaths Thanks for the information I have talked to them and seams like there not all that forthcoming about it.

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@robertburgess6100 I also agree showing the process should not matter, it is the product they put down that is proprietary!

[@robertburgess6100]

@@PavingNewPaths Agree 100 percent. Enjoy your travels.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@Thesaltymedic36]

I’ve seen a lot of videos lately about glue failing on roofs. I’m not sure why Rv manufacturers don’t use a spray on roof from jump street. Great video 👍🏼

[@PavingNewPaths]

There are several roof companies similar to RV armor that offer life time warranty! why can't the manufacturer either offer it from the factory or develop their own version and offer a forever roof!

[@benkok02]

Ours is now two years old. We have warranty for Rv and when we came for a unrelated issue they told us to come by when we see something funny at roof. It is going to be replaced with upgraded sealand

[@PavingNewPaths]

Unfortunately we are the second owner on a brand new rig! First owner only kept it a few months before we purchased it! Being the second owner and the fine print it was not covered under warranty! But if it was they would put the same sub par roof on it, Upgrading to a lifetime warranty roof was the best thing we ever did!

[@sfcjones2590]

So much for me getting a Grand design. They are off my list to buy from.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Honestly its not just a Grand Design problem! Across all manufacturers you will find the same construction and problems!

[@bobbyzaragoza8294]

It was installed wroung at the front cap . It's grabbing air from the bottom and works it way up

[@PavingNewPaths]

Yes, he mentioned that in the video that it was a combination the termination strip at the front cap and not enough glue applied to the vinyl when installing!

[@donaldpedigo296]

.. YOU ARE A "VERY--DEDICATED--PATIENT--MAN" ... WISHING YOU & YOUR FAMILY ALL THE BEST OF SAFE TRAVELS IN YOUR "RV-LIFE" ..👍👍👍👍👍

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! We just decided to fix it ourselves and continue traveling!

[@whipple7362]

I would liked to see how they sealed the sides where the gutters are. Doesn’t the old roof wrap under the gutters

[@PavingNewPaths]

Yes they do! He had to remove the gutters to remove the old vinyl roof! They then wrapped their membrane over the radius down behind the gutters! Once two base coats and top coat is applied the gutter is reinstalled! They then run a bead of their top coat along the edge of the gutter where it meets the membrane! Now that it is dry the gutter is essentially part of the roof now!

[@whipple7362]

@@PavingNewPaths sounds like a bulletproof system. What was the cost for a trailer your size? Also how long did it take to get them out there to install it?

[@kevinmakesitcool]

@@whipple7362 It's based what needs to be done and if there is any damage to repair! Ours was around $175 a foot but we requested that the old roof be completely removed, including behind the gutters! We scheduled it for the time that worked best for us!

[@whipple7362]

@@kevinmakesitcool that’s not bad at all! Just over $6k. And if I ever had to have it done I would definitely want old roof removed and it wrapped under the gutters. Maybe even new gutters. Thanks

[@ls2gudchevs752]

Thnks u for this upload always good 2 know story like this thnk God rv Armor is 2 save d day so u and others can go back on the road ,I own a 89 lance camper n thinking of upgrading to a trailer, kids r full gown now so it's time for new n bigger 1 so I've been watching n doing my homework B4 diving in thnks again stay safe God bless u n family happy camping🤙👍👐🙂

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks for watching! Almost all campers are going to have problems if you use them! Thats why we decided to fix the roof the way we did! Why go back to the same thing that failed when you can put a forever roof on your RV!

[@blairwalkin5733]

I noticed you have rv airflow in your air conditioner and that you installed the put back in the airflow shower plate. You do not need it with the rv airflow, my 31MB had it installed at the factory too which is incorrect. Removing it should help airflow and let the system work as designed.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! Several of our viewers pointed this out to us and we have removed it! It was in there, so we just assumed it was supposed to be in there! We downloaded the installation instructions, and it says to discard that piece!

[@blairwalkin5733]

@@PavingNewPaths Really enjoying your video's, traded our old keystone 5th wheel for this 2021 31MB before winter set in here in Manitoba, so waiting for spring, -35 this morning. BRRRRRR

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@blairwalkin5733 Thank you, we are glad you enjoy the videos! -35 is to cold for us Texans, stay safe and warm!

[@CanadianSpeedster]

Wild. I have a 11 year old Jayco and the roof is perfect.

[@PavingNewPaths]

That is probably why you don't have any roof issues because of when it was built! The amount of people we have met that have campers built in the last 3 years with roof problems is amazing!

[@Pipelineaudits1234]

Where were you when you had the repair completed?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Texas! On family land. But they will come to you where ever you are!

[@Pipelineaudits1234]

@@PavingNewPaths about how much did it cost? I have a 41’ Grand Design Solitude

[@PavingNewPaths]

The job varies depending on damage and what you want done! They charge you by thr linear foot of your roof, so for you about 38ft! We requested the old existing roof be removed completely so our cost was around $175 a foot. yours could be less or more depending on what you want done! If you use our name Paving New Paths you can get a discount on your roof!

[@bryanthornton6787]

I just picked up my new camper last week and after getting it home, I got the ladder out so I could take a look at the roof. Low and behold there is a small section that made me want to throw up. We emailed a video of it to the dealer and I guess we'll be in touch with one another about what the next step will be when we get back from our trip. What was membrane he put directly on the wood?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thats no good! We had a choice go through a dealer or file an insurance claim! Both would have resulted in the same roof being put back on! For half the price we can get a better roof with a lifetime warranty! We love the peace of mind the RV Armor roof had given us! The membrane they put down is like a fiberglass type batting! They install two basecoats that dry semi hard then one final thick rubber coat! They only thing I do now is clean the rood! No more dicor or small tears to deal with!

[@SemiReTired]

Great video brother. Im gonna be thinking about this on my new camper. Liking the channel.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We appreciate you watching and are glad you are liking our channel! The roof has been great we only wish we had done it from day one!

[@SemiReTired]

Thats what im thinking, do it early.

[@NewHorizons2020]

We had a 2021 Grand Design Reflection 303rls Fifth Wheel. It was a total lemon. We had daylight through walls, kitchen sink falling through, drawers flying out and breaking, cabinet doors that wouldn't stay shut. Called and called and called Customer service and they wouldn't help. They demanded us not bring it up to Elkhart, Indiana headquarters. We talked to the head people and didn't get anywhere. We traded it in on a Keystone Arcadia 3660rl Fifth Wheel. No issues at all with it. Grand Design has horrible Customer service

[@PavingNewPaths]

The problem I have is they don't really want to deal with the end customer! For them once they deliver the unit to a dealership they are done with the unit! They want you to deal with your local dealer to handle all problems and issues! Problem is we are second owner and our local dealer didn't sell us the unit so they don't care about service or warranty work with us!

[@NewHorizons2020]

@@PavingNewPaths I have 2 Grand Design Reflection 303rls video on my channel. First one is showing the outside issues and the 2nd one showing the inside issues.

[@jimg2885]

That is so sad you had to deal with this. Amazing the rv roof is not covered because you are not the original owner. So a 10-12 year guarantee is no good if you sell the rv. Now you will have a great selling point now that you have a transferable warranty. That's the way it should be from the manufacture. Great video..

[@PavingNewPaths]

Even if they were to cover it, they will only install the same sub par roof that requires you to inspect and reseal constantly!

[@jimg2885]

@@PavingNewPaths does this roof you had put on not need resealing around vents, A/C's etc. ??

[@PavingNewPaths]

@@jimg2885 There is no maintence required! If there ever is an issue or you need to replace a vent or skylight they send a technician or materials to you! The AC units have thier own gasket so its the same as any other roof. The skylights and vents were installed and then sealed over.

[@jimg2885]

@@PavingNewPaths thank you and glad you are all set now..

[@TheMinnow101]

The warranty is only for materials. So if (and that’s a big if) the manufacturer was to cover a replacement roof under warranty, you’d be getting about $300. The thousands more it costs is all labor. An rv roof warranty from the manufacturer is a big feel good scam.

[@parkininparadise]

Great information! Excellent solution. Was this covered by insurance?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Depends on your insurance, ours would only cover factory replacement nothing else! We decided to to put a better roof on at out cost but it was half the price of thr insurance claim!

[@williamshort4267]

how old is this trailer I have a trailer that is 10 years old roof as good as day I drove home

[@PavingNewPaths]

It is a 2020! They don't make them like they used to!

[@mitchsalewsky6475]

My one year old grand design 26 foot roof. Took the cover off today and discovered the roof had bubbling on all the horizontal seams.

[@geraldkoth654]

Stop and get a staple gun staple the roof where it is loose and put some goop on the staples. Another way is to run a line of screws with fender washers and goop under the washer before tightening and after tightening.

[@PavingNewPaths]

With this roof there is no need to do that. They installed and sealed a membrane that is secured under my front and rear caps as well as under my gutters.

[@kathleenrutherford733]

6 month old RV at that cost!!! I would never staple it nor screw it. But to each their own

[@tls453]

What does it cost? Also, it seemed a bit strange that the Nate was not shown on camera during the interview or that the installation process was not shown in more detail. Makes me wonder why so secretive.

[@PavingNewPaths]

The cost depends on the work required, if there is damage that needs to be fixed as well! We requested the entire existing roof be pulled off so ours was around $175 a foot! At RV armor request I was not to show Nate's face or a step by step process of the roof being applied. I was allowed to show before and after and talk about each step! The roof membrane and the coating materials are proprietary and they did not want an uncontrolled video of how its done on KZbin!

[@grumpyshorts1056]

@@PavingNewPaths So $175 a foot with tearing off the old roof and installing the new one, sounds like a fantastic deal. If our new GD ever gets to that point, this is where we'll go. thanks for the info and video.

[@kevinmakesitcool]

@@grumpyshorts1056 I think it is a great deal compared to what they charge you for replacing the roof with the same material that already failed!

[@RamblinRoadies]

Is this an applied liquid product that becomes a "membrane", or is it an applied solid membrane? I wasn't clear on that. It also seemed that the penetrations, a/c, skylight, fans, etc., were embedded into the membrane as opposed to installed, as typical, on top of the membrane. So now what happens if you need to replace one of these items? Great video. As a former GD owner, they get a lot of undeserved hype. The customer service is good, but the product is only average. Is the vinyl wood grain pealing off your interior doors yet?

[@PavingNewPaths]

Frank, they didn't want me videoing the process but they laydown thier own fabric/ fiberglass type material on the wood then apply 2 layers of base product. Then they install all the penetrations and lay the material and the 2 layers of base around them. The top coat is then applied and its a very thick rubber finished product. If you needed to replace a fan or sky light they will send you materials or a tech to help you reseal the roof when your done.

[@RamblinRoadies]

@@PavingNewPaths ah, it's more clear now. It looks like a great product.

[@PavingNewPaths]

*** Discount Code for RV Armor*** Tell them you saw the video on Paving New Paths to get $100 off your roof

[@johnny_truth]

What a beautiful paint job and they put a roof like that from the factory.

[@PavingNewPaths]

They should come from the factory with an rv armor roof! Or at least allow the buyer to add that on from the factory as an option. Our next rv will have the new roof put on immediately after we purchase it.

[@markdixon1403]

So if you need to replace a vent or an AC units or anything up there what's the process

[@PavingNewPaths]

For the AC units they have thier own gasket to the roof so its the same as with any other roof. The maxair fans and skylight are now sealed over! So if you need to change one out they will either send you a technician or materials to reseal the roof once your done changing them out!

[@michaelosmon]

I might have removed the old roof myself and rolled on some rustoleum primer before that guy showed up, maybe the rubber coating did the same thing as an oil primer would have. I appreciate you sharing this experience. I can't imagine how frustrating it was to deal with the manufacturer. RV roofs have been an issue since forever. Why they refuse to solve this problem once and for all is beyond me. Moisture promotes mold. Mold can kill you if your exposure is prolonged. So if I develop respiratory issues from living in a leaky rv, if I can prove the manufacturer didn't try to improve this design flaw, or in this case made the design worse, can I hold them accountable for not only my medical bills but also compensation for losing my quality of life?

[@PavingNewPaths]

The old roof was not leaking it was just trying to come off while driving! That is why we left everything in place until he arrived! We knew when we bought used that we might have issues on major stuff since we are not the original owner! The money we saved on the upfront cost of purchasing the RV is worth it! We were able to pay to have a quality roof put on and are still better off cost wise than buying a brand new RV!

[@coreygilbert62]

Fully bonded epdm rubber they use it on high rise good for 20 years

[@michaelosmon]

@@coreygilbert62 my buddy's winnebago has a fiberglass roof from the factory. Lifetime. Epdm on a high rise doesn't brush against branches when you drive it down the road.

[@coreygilbert62]

@@michaelosmon it's very durable could withstand it no prob

[@ryanmcnulty8323]

I’ve always wondered how the process would be for replacing a skylight or vent fan if they were ever to be damaged.

[@PavingNewPaths]

With an RV armor the skylights and the vents are covered over with the new roof! Of you had to replace one, they give you a repair kit or will send a tech out to help, just to ensure thr lifetime warranty stays intact!

[@kerry4951]

This has been an on going problem with GD for years and they dont take responsibility that their roof install process is lacking in many ways. My previous RVs (not GD) had excellent roof membranes that were attached tight to the sheathing, no bubbles, no wrinkles, no loose spots.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We were the second owners, previous owner only had it for about 6 months! We were in the RV for almost 6 months and 4000 miles before I started to notice some bubbles and loose spots! Not long after the big air pocket when driving showed up! We knew we were getting a new roof at that point we just had to figure out what kind, how and when!

[@SLICKW1993]

I’ve seen some manufacturers use the PVC roofing, seems more durable than the rubber membrane. I’m always fixing leaks on my roof, annoying! If I was planning on keeping it I’d get something like this done.

[@PavingNewPaths]

I can't believe they still use Vinyl or TPO as a roof option anymore! You have to constantly apply dicor every 6 months to all the seams and penetrations to keep it watertight! On top of that if a tree branch so much as touches it there is a new rip or hole that needs dicor! They should offer a lifetime roof like this from the factory! We would gladly pay the upcharge to not have worry about the roof!

[@marciatesch3951]

We’re are you having this done? It’s beautiful with the trees and country side. We are thinking of moving to NE Texas, maybe Tyler.

[@PavingNewPaths]

This was in east Texas near Lufkin! We originally lived near Tyler and it is very much the same landscape!