What Do Britain's Veterans Want? | Downstream

They are claimed from all sides and by all parties. But who are Britain's ex-service personnel? What do they want? And what do their politics - whether conservative, liberal or socialist - tell us about Britain as a post-imperial country?
Aaron Bastani speaks to Joe Glenton, journalist and author of 'Veteranhood'. Available from Repeater Books: repeaterbooks....
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[@stevefaulkner9391]

100% correct. I served 11 years and saw the racism, violence and 'otherness'. We hated civvies, foreigners, the other services etc. Aggression was encouraged, but when you needed help, you were blanked and shamed. No help, no understanding. It has took me twenty years to come to terms with it.

[@Pinzpilot101]

Took ?? I had only respect for the hard work down by the thickos in the Pioneer Corps.

[@rontocknell5400]

This is a brilliant piece. I was in the RAMC in the early 1970s. Soldiers were never referred to as 'Our Heroes' then... and I would have found it embarrassing if we were because, personally, I never did anything heroic throughout my whole service. I never saw active service and just worked in a hospital mostly on the reception desk. We were 'squaddies' and not highly regarded. One thing I did learn was that it takes more courage to defy an order than to face conflict. We did receive soldiers who had been injured in conflict (at that time, transferred in from Belfast). They had faced very charged and threatening situations and been severely injured in the process. But, also, they talked about some of the things they had done that troubled them. Things that conflicted with their own sense of moral decency. But they did it because they were ordered to. My heroes are the 'refuseniks' who said no and refused to act against their conscience. Vilified as 'cowards', they knowingly faced abuse, imprisonment, regular beatings (we got those in too) and, sometimes, rejection from their own families... but retained their humanity.

[@ronaldsimpson8890]

rontocknell, i was a regular from 1957 to 1963, and apart from three years in Cyprus, i found in the UK that sqaddies were pretty well disliked, and were sometimes barred from pubs.

[@TheInternetIsDeadToMe]

I was blown away by his DDN piece. He made me completely reevaluate my preconceptions of what a Soldier is. His humanity, his ethics, his deep understanding of complex geopolitical situations. This is the sort of person I want to be aligned with.

[@MZ4thJuly]

This is a really good interview … my dad was a naval officer from age 18 to 60 and he has always been a socialist and vehement anti racist. He has always hated the Tories

[@howler6490]

He must've had it hard! He would need to be 110% all the time. Must have some great tales. A real hero to have maintained his beliefs in the face of the non-stop bullshit surrounding him. As the yanks would say..."thank you for your service".

[@klemmr3233]

I was court-martialled. There are a few of us around. This is an excellent piece, thanks.

[@ghostcat5303]

I suffer from C-PTSD from my childhood and from listening to Joe it seems like the object of training is to induce the kind of hypervigilent, chronic stress that I have had to live with. If that is the case then it's no wonder so many vets struggle.

[@crayontom9687]

Just ordered the book after seeing him on Double Down News. Looking forward to reading it. More generally, I find it interesting that people in this country bang on about ‘queen and country’ and all that faux patriotism nonsense but then don’t notice that the way we treat veterans in this country is a disgrace

[@CINRZ]

Couldn't agree more. All of these people who screech about poppies on the internet walk past veterans on the streets every day and sneer at them.

[@MrAvant123]

Totally true, the Americans revere their military some of which are only in the military because they would be in jail otherwise, while here we call them squaddies and dont want to even look at them in the street - I for one am thankful that all servicemen put their lives at risk for crap salaries to keep us safe !

[@willpushback4874]

@@MrAvant123 Its not about keeping us safe, its about plunder for the rich..

[@MrAvant123]

@@willpushback4874 And what plunder are you talking about ? Afghanistan ??

[@willpushback4874]

@@MrAvant123 OIL

[@0211brucetube]

Joe Glenton is class

[@tonymurphy2624]

Fascinating interview. I suspect the shift from the quiet understatement of respect for vets to the pom-pom 'thank you for your service' has been mostly a function of the creeping Americanisation of Britain, fuelled by the milquetoast Hollywood fayre. I've certainly noticed it over the last half-century, but especially after 9/11. The whole giant poppy costume thing is straight out of Disney, and it's everywhere nowadays.

[@sailyousuf]

Great interview Joe Glenton's insight into veteran culture is very informative. I think we should have compassion for the veterans regardless of our politics.

[@yetidodger6650]

the ship my grandad was on was sank during ww2 and he spent 12 hours in the sea, he suffered pneumonia and had to leave the navy, the British legion never offered him any help whatsoever because he wasn't an officer of any kind, there was a group called the buffalos who saw my grandad through the hard times, my father also served but refused to ever drink in the legion club in his home town.

[@ronaldsimpson8890]

Will the RBL publish the ranks of there trustees and how much they are paid?

[@sebastianbaxter6760]

A truly extraordinary interview - Joe's insight is profoundly unsettling yet nuanced delivered with an erudite fluidity. Rarely do ya learn so much in 54:44

[@leontinemccain5170]

I would love to see lowkey discuss anti imperialism with Joe.

[@beatsbyjordan8730]

Oh my god 200%!!

[@TheGduane]

What an excellent interview. Joe is such a good communicator.

[@robertwinslade3104]

His segment the other day on DDN was fantastic

[@JayeshPatel-ek5ou]

For about 10 years I knew a bloke who would tell me stories of all his adventures around different bits of the world when he was in the Royal Navy. When he retired one of his mates told me it was all made up bullshit, he'd never been in the Navy, just had regular jobs all his life.

[@mchmch6185]

Another super-interesting, eye-opening Downstream piece. Thanks, as always, to all and particularly to Joe.

[@MrCawkwell]

Thank you Joe an excellent piece full of thought and idea. I joined as a boy in the 70's, and I quiet frankly find all the "hero" vibe cringe-worthy.

[@Smittumi]

An incredible interview! Really informative.

[@billyouka448]

Saw the DDN article and had to watch this interview, fascinating interview.

[@simeonmcbean-willis1068]

As a serving officer this was a refreshing take on many conversations that need to happen. Good work Novara

[@summertilling]

This was super interesting.

[@libanmohamed5503]

What I thought 💭 exactly

[@robertwinslade3104]

Have ordered his book based on the quality of this interview. Looking forward to reading it

[@michaelrch]

Excellent piece. Really fascinating.

[@witzmeister]

"engine of violence" title for the book maybe? Absolutely fascinating interview. Thank you.

[@TheGduane]

"Marc Francois is a bloater" 🤣

[@bristolrovers27]

Interesting interview, I joined for adventure and to get away from town and people I grew up with. Left quickly, 6 years is short in military

[@williamwimbourne856]

I got addison's disease after leaving the military. Adrenal glands failed and don't produce stress hormone. Constantly in hypervigilance, perpetual stress., pissed off all the time.

[@gerardmartin9873]

I never liked the idea of been a soldier, because of my family and friends. They went to these wars, and they came back as animals, every word from their mouths as to be war related, keep a stiff upper lip, and just get on with it. They lost that human touched, a yes or no, they would lose their cool, I kept wondering why, it almost felt I was beneath them because they went to the army. Now that I heard your explanation, about being a in the army, it all makes sense, they have used all that soldiers stuff, to hide their poor mental health. I remember saying one of my friends, it almost he wanted to take a hammer to kill a bug, and for that reason, we couldn't see eye to eye anymore. It is what it is, never express about any mental issue's, he was that tough guy, at least so I thought, when you don't know, you don't know, but when you know, you know. Thank you for sharing, thanks for the insights into the subject matter, oh man.

[@gerrijacobs8426]

Amazing interview. Loved every minute. Thank you Joe & Aaron.

[@freebornaiden7666]

This is brilliant. Well done Aaron.

[@markarianludd5930]

A wonderful listen. Many thanks.

[@margaretfarrell5137]

A brilliant analysis of the military based on personal experience and observance of the changes that have taken place over time. My grandfather was killed in WW1 & my grandmother was left with 6 children to bring up on her own. Yet I've never been drawn to Remembrance Day or wore the poppy I think because it reminded me of the shocking waste of thousands of young life in a senseless war. It bothers me to see the establishment laying wreaths while they continue to wage (illegal) wars or sell arms (killing machines) to other countries at war. Are they reminding young men "Your country may still need you."

[@jamesbarclay8430]

Great interview, very interesting.

[@nitzerebbandflow]

Such an interesting and informative interview - thanks for sharing.

[@hamza9829]

amazing downstream interview, proper enlightening

[@swarming1092]

This was absolutely fascinating. I had no idea how interesting it was going to be.

[@jamesoneill2933]

Many of those who served in Ireland during the conflict ,want, jailing.

[@isaacngugi3926]

Great interview. Another Novara banger

[@interested-q4d]

Colonel Rainsborough forever let's have the Putney debates now!

[@lo-boy6956]

Just love the honesty..

[@willleahy6958]

Excellent analysis from a principled and intelligent man. Good drills.

[@clairerimmer6334]

Thoughtful and insightful interview. One to listen to again. Book also bought. Thank you.

[@MrCawkwell]

Oh and by the way pal your book arrived today.

[@coolmans7676]

Brilliant piece 👏 👌 will definitely buy the book. Very insightful conversation. Thanks 👍

[@nickowen5310]

Awesome interview. So so interesting. More stuff like this please!!

[@robheppellvideooffice]

Production note; There's a really high-pitched feedback on this video around 7.44 - some kind of mic feedback

[@john-fs9bw]

American veterans, or me at least, find thank you for your service incredibly cringe. No matter your country please don't.

[@phillips241]

RLC are you tough enough 🤣🤣 lost me there

[@Dave-lk4qc]

“Walt Island”.. fucking brilliant!

[@willtb6131]

Brilliant interview! Learnt alot

[@72warnock]

A brain that works is what they want .

[@umvhu]

Informative and interesting artice. EDIT I my opinion the statistic estimates should be emphasised. The common estimate is about 1:1 in WW1, civilians to combatants. The estimates for WW2 are a bit less consistent but about 10 civilians to every combatant is the most common. Vietnam war estimates vary from 50 to 100 civilians per combatant. More recent conflicts almost always exceed 100:1. My question is? What will drone warfare bring?

[@TheInnacity]

Mitty esque bloater . see Ian Duncan smith : sanctioneer brigade

[@jaybee2786]

100% agree with this video

[@wilfredsterling2124]

Interesting talk

[@stephencunningham6557]

Clement Attlee was a 1WW veteran. A Captain I believe but still had a little imperialism running through his veins.

[@olphausmegaletor8835]

16:28 Ant Middleton is a Budget David Goggins or Jocko Wilnik This is what I thought; Middleton is Goggins for a broud public consumption.

[@yogeorgia6316]

Does anyone know if/ when Joe Glenton's book will be available on audio?

[@joeglenton6858]

not sure but i'll be voicing it myself.

[@davidhurst5101]

Very good

[@Pinzpilot101]

The system changed......In this guys time maybe there were a lot of people in the Army who should never have gotten through the selection process. I joined in juniors in 72...during the day, people would be pulled out of the ranks....when we got back to our barrack rooms in the evening, every trace of them would be gone. They had been spotted as 'Non Soldiers' maybe they were saved from being like this guy? Who did I feel sorry for back then? the guys who were fit and motivated, but at the end of the course they were simply 'thumb fingered' and with the weapons we used would have been a liability and accidentally shot their own people.

[@bengallup9321]

Awesome interview. Same thing in Canada, there are lots of left wing vets and service people.

[@michaeljensen1364]

You forgot to mention the heroes of 43 Group!

[@joeglenton6858]

They are in the book!

[@wokenessisasickness6597]

People at Novara Media have been disrespectful of the British army.

[@craigburns5016]

BLAZERS are a nuisance. I go to remembrance day. got medals just like them and dreadlocks down my back. No way will they ever exept me.

[@Scrinwaipwr]

What veterans want depends on how much anglo-imperialist propaganda they swallowed before and during service and how much the horrors of the reality of battle, war and capitalist imperialism have undone that propaganda.

[@lennoxbaker4182]

*I* *just* *made* *my* *first* *$20,000* *in* *cryptocurrency* *I'm* *so* *glad* *I'm* *gonna* *have* *a* *successful* *retirement.* .

[@alanfoss8990]

congratulations, I'm still mining bitcoin on my bitcoin cloud.

[@williamssmith4584]

Investing in crypto now should be in the every wise individual's list, in some months time you'll be ecstatic with the decision you made today"

[@crossdressfet-ish]

Pretty sure I've got some form of ptsd I'm autistic and have had a panic attack before (it feels like a heart attack but it's not) conscription is the only way I'd be in the army