2024 Round Up: Gaza, Starmer And The Death of Woke with Ash Sarkar, Aaron Bastani and Michael Walker

[@onepartyroule]

This is one of the most sensible discussions on identity politics that I’ve seen anywhere.

[@andybrice2711]

_Jacobin_ also have a lot of rather excellent discussions dissecting identity politics from a socialist perspective.

[@camilovargas1722]

Would you mind sharing it?

[@stevegiles8019]

I love you three wonderful human beings.

[@redmondo42]

Centrist Michael Walker, 98% Loaded 📶

[@nathanaelsmith3553]

I agree with his stance. Ethically correct opinions are not the same as workable progressive policies. Those have to adapt and integrate with the imperfect world as it is.

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

I'm team Michael whatever you call him.

[@jackjude]

​@@intelligenceofacertainkindwhen Aaron calls Walker 'the big dog'. He ain't joking.

[@obibraxton2232]

Has deffo not a leftist 😂🤧😬 Michael’s opinions on some things make me wonder

[@barryk00da]

Which part was centrist?

[@xparadoxicallyx]

Fantastic discussion! As a leftist, this was the most encouraging and sober analysis I’ve heard in awhile. Thank you for your work - this is why I’m a subscriber!

[@noah5291]

Are a socialist? Just say the please if so because I don't know what a leftist is

[@gordonaliasme1104]

Thanks Novara for your dedication in bringing truth to counter msm !

[@sophiepooks2174]

MSN suck so does most media is Neo-liberal.

[@subcynic]

After a horrible year, that switched me off from engaging with politics, I found this very reinvigorating. Novara for the win in 2025

[@CambeulWalker]

Thanks folks that was both extemely interesting and thought provoking as always.

[@tonioinverness]

Ash = 100%. University graduate culture has exercised a lot of control over the discourse for some time. They generally aren't dealing with problems like being evicted with 3 kids. They're dealing with problems like someone asking to touch their hair. So they find ways to freak out over that and build politics around that. This is how you get Cynthia Erivo flipping out because a fan redesigned the Wicked poster. She just doesn't have anything bigger to worry about.

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

It's a reflection of left wing politics sidelining economics for a pathological obsession with cultural issues. They disregard Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. How the fundamentals of human existence like food, shelter, water, sanitation, healthcare must always take primacy. They became an intolerant cult. If someone like Bernie Sanders said something deemed 'wrong' on a cultural issue - he was labelled 'bad' and an enemy of the people even though his economic policies help the vast majority of people. It's become an intolerant, fanatical and self serving cult that's clearly not interested in the needs of the people they claim to 'represent'.

[@selen332]

@@intelligenceofacertainkind 'Cultural' and social concerns are as significant if not more so than economic concerns. It's not as if extremely impoverished countries lack cultural and social issues, ideals, institutions, etc, because even people in dire poverty are concerned about questions of community and identity. Personally I think this obsession with economics often comes from a privileged position in which someone is fairly comfortable socially and culturally, so their primary concern becomes economic woes.

[@noah5291]

​@@intelligenceofacertainkindsee example a: Selen in the comments

[@timjkoala7556]

​@selen332Literally the vast majority of people in the world disagree with you, but I'm glad you voiced your opinion, shows how bad it's gotten on the left.

[@andybrice2711]

Also it allows them to frame themselves as underdogs and freedom fighters, rather than part of the elite. And (if I’m being even more cynical) promoting this kind of identity politics is a great divide-and-conquer strategy to prevent populists on the left and right uniting.

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

Big respect to Michael for not letting the naysayers get to him. That jumper does not look like something Albert Steptoe would wear. It is in fact the height of fashion. And that's the end of it.

[@b00ts4ndc4ts]

Best of luck for next year and thank you for staying truthful.

[@francescahamilton6856]

Brilliant end of year discussion. Very enlightening and inspiring. Dynamic politics....more of this please 😅😅

[@LivingstoneThomas]

Well done Guys, Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year! You guys 'knocked it out of the park', this year. Kept us, informed and updated on Real World Issues that affect us all. Long Live, Independent Media. Thanks Novara!

[@mattiethemongoose3rd]

Michael Walker still refusing to be educated about trans women in sports I see.

[@sophiepooks2174]

Also these people don't know the difference between biological sex and chromosomal sex, the narrative and vibe is always more important than the TL;DR facts of a matter.

[@johnlavers3970]

what disgusted about starmer was his response to criticism in parliament over his support for genocide(and it's major support) he smuggly retorted that remember oct 7th. the calus total lack of humanity is a harbringer of the return to hard core racism ans hard core militarism. he didn't evem make an attempt to jujst say the genocide is terrible and we are woerking to pursuade israel to be more carful about civilian casualities. obviously he doesn't care a whit about mass deaths of civilians, especially childred, and there is no price to pay in british politics for such returb to barbarisn but the britsh empire

[@sophiepooks2174]

Labor are Tories lite, definitely not left or for the workers anymore, right wing sellouts.

[@bentz98125]

Michael's reference to "the modern world" is exactly what multipolarity calls into question. Is it eurocentric or is future Europe the western arm of the Asian node of modernity?

[@mr.kind_stranger8755]

This is a golden age of left wing media, and I hope its only the begining x

[@a7ukgc8x9m4h]

What left wing media do you reccomend?

[@BenChod3]

🤮

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

Novara became better when they started having guests with other political views. Echo chambers encourage self delusion, cultism, fanaticism and serve to alienate from the rest of humanity. It's very good to have well mannered disagreements. It's how you pressure test ideas.

[@jamescelliers3195]

lmao

[@andybrice2711]

@@mr.kind_stranger8755 Yeah. I feel like there’s finally a lot of sensible left-wing ideas re-emerging again, after a decade-long dark-age where everything became consumed by aggressive sophistry about identity and language.

[@AlJalandhari]

1:05:40 Hezbollah do have the long range missiles they claimed to have. They were revealing it very slowly. 5 months in to the war they went from just attacking the border to attacking sites 5-10km in. Only 11 months in to the war (after the pager attack) did they start targeting Haifa and a month later they started attacking Tel Aviv. On the last day of the war they launched a cruise (as opposed to ballistic) missile at Tel Aviv (something they never even claimed to have, and can not be intercepted by iron dome/david's sling). It is possible some of there arsenal has been taken out in Syria thanks to HTS's takeover but there is plenty left in the Bekaa

[@00wil77]

Cheers Guys. Have a good one. X

[@Missfredawallace]

You will go the way of Young Turks

[@sophiepooks2174]

Yep can wait for the; "why I left the left" videos.

[@Aarenby]

@@Missfredawallace are going

[@jukebolton3465]

why would we want to donate to novara media to fund an alternative media, when he is very supportive of the labour govt?

[@Orlando-qj7bh]

he doesn't like the labour govnmt but he thinks that the success of this govt is the best option in the short term, because if it fails that means the tories or reform come into power.

[@johnmoorefilm]

A little poem for 2025: “Let’s not worry about the colour of your skin, let’s look at the state your salary is in…”❤

[@RadiantStar8997]

That was a good review of 2024 with logical explanations for their views.

[@Orlando-qj7bh]

such an enlightening discussion, you guys should do this more often!

[@billiepotts1541]

On Michael's maximalism point, I think he's dead wrong on policy, but completely correct on optics. The people don't understand the bad faith of the anti-trans opposition, or the immigrant haters, or cop defenders. They walk into this debate, completely fresh, and see the proper left defending these three policy commitments of trans rights, open borders, and dismantling the police, and they join the far-right. Everything is about framing. When the bigots spout lies about trans girls playing sports, we should pivot to their position on the role of women in society. When the bigots bash immigrants, we should pivot to the contributions of immigrants and our commitment to integrating them into our societies. When the bigots defend extrajudicial execution by cop, we should pivot to their lack of efficacy when it comes to solving and preventing crime, the reality that their presence is the primary determinant of whether or not a place is considered high crime, and the genuine lack of safety people feel, and HOW IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT, and no amount of squandered cash is gonna solve it.

[@Aarenby]

Appeals to moderation and decorum only get you to one place and it's not good

[@nmk5003]

A lot of the UK discussion on so-called DEI shows how much the USA and England really are completely separated by a common tongue. I don't think anyone on this panel has a real understanding of American racial or gender politics.

[@SimonMclennan]

Well done guys :)

[@mawkernewek]

28:55 they're not doing it to flog cars, what they are actually doing is to try to build social licence for the continued operation of their business

[@TheSheriffess]

Damerica was built on racism and I believe that Black & Latino people decided that most politicians are racist, or are just there to line their own pockets, so they might as well choose the one that will benefit the economy. Most votes for Trump were based on the economy. If they wanted the wars to end, they would have voted for Jill Stein and If they were really worried about their health & the pharmaceutical companies, then they would have voted for Dr Shiva.

[@RadiantStar8997]

Yep. black, asian and latino people knew the name of the game and that racism is always there. So, what else can they vote for? It's sad Gza and geno didn't count so much.

[@timjkoala7556]

Everything I've seen from interviews and polling of latinos that voted for Trump indicates they don't believe he is a racist.

[@sophiepooks2174]

The irony is Trump the 🤡will make their lives much harder unless they are already earning $400K per annum. They have shot themselves it the foot USA will soon officially be a Plutocracy run by Oligarchs that will take all they can for themselves and leave nothing for the common folk.

[@Joepantioni123321]

I *love* Aaron, but he seriously needs to get a better grip on macro economics. The way he speaks about government deficits especially when in regards to nations with their own sovereign currencies and low reliance on foreign financing (United States) is unfortunately so limiting to his analysis and intelligent discussion. You guys had Stephanie Kelton on Downstream! What’s the excuse?

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

They need to have viewers. Macro economics is so soul destroying and boring the channel would collapse for lack of interest.

[@noah5291]

Present your critique please

[@Joepantioni123321]

@@intelligenceofacertainkind I understand this and I’m not asking for the channel to cover the topic any more than they currently do - I just think the quality of the analysis and the conclusions leave some to be desired when they are based on a jazzed up version of the household budget metaphor. MMT as an explanation for how modern monetary systems literally work is hugely convincing and allows better analysis into what has been going wrong.

[@sophieparry8926]

Throughout I've seen: leftist Ash Sarker and Aaron bastani and then there's Michael walker. At least Ash and Aaron openly support trans rights

[@nathanaelsmith3553]

I think Michael supports trans people exercising the same human rights as everyone else. I think he also believes biological male advantage in sport not to be a gender identity issue. I don't think that all trans people necessarily disagree with him.

[@outofideas42]

@@nathanaelsmith3553 giving airtime to those 'concerns' is the problem in and of itself. Not to mention airing them uncritically - trans people participating in their affirming sports categories must undertake tests to affirm that they fall within typical ranges of relevant female biological measures. Any advantage that did exist is measurably eroded. I have never heard a trans person say that trans women should not at all ever be allowed to compete with cis women in physical sports. But Michael lets that opinion, which exists only in bigotry, get major airtime without any substantial disagreement.

[@Aarenby]

​@@nathanaelsmith3553the science disproves him though

[@nathanaelsmith3553]

I don't think holding honest opinions on things makes anyone a good or bad person. Of all the Novara team I would be most interested in Helena's take on trans issues as she is herself a trans person. I would be interested to hear them candidly discuss these hot topics. I think they would remain friends afterwards.

[@Aarenby]

@@nathanaelsmith3553 Michael calls trans rights "TRA Doctrine"

[@alexjohnston-x9x]

2024 was one hell of a year! What the hell is 2025 going to be like! Feel like 2024 was just the forplay before the main event

[@munchuriancandidate]

Really great chat everyone, stimulating thoughts etc 🙏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🎩 *Ash mainly obviously.

[@wmndz510]

Thanks!

[@leohoddle5822]

The western world owes a huge debt of gratitude to the American voting public. Trump will make life extremely difficult for Starmer, Lammy and co.

[@sophiepooks2174]

Trump/MAGA will make life very difficult for anyone not already earning $400K p.a.

[@rteammobile]

OMG, pardon me, my dear British friends! As an American (and a proud minority), I’ve got a little secret to spill: yes, America has its share of racism, but let's be honest-everyone here really wants to be one color: GREEN. Because once you’ve got that sweet cash, all those pesky color problems tend to vanish into thin air. Pretty sure that explains how a certain spray-tanned billionaire ended up in the White House!

[@dovic86]

I might not fully agree with Michael's overreliance on technological solutions to the climate crisis, but I think he has a point when he says that political solutions in Western democracies look unrealistic, at least with this kind of system and our consumer-based, individualistic culture. what baffles me the most, though, is Aaron's attitude towards the issue. I feel like he often casually downplays and trivialises the impact of this crisis. teaching kids about wildflowers hoping they'll go green when they grow up? rewilding your backyard? really? what about crossing your fingers? 😂 I'm afraid we don't have time for this baby steps anymore.

[@nathanaelsmith3553]

Things are really kicking off in Serbia.

[@seanchilling]

Jaguar: copy nothing Also Jaguar: copies Benetton

[@Alden1957]

You need to look at the struggle between the social model of disability and the tragic but brave charity model. You will find answers to many of the problems you discussed today.

[@johnmoorefilm]

Spot-on👍

[@johnmoorefilm]

The Turks are gettin’ their Ottoman on!

[@thetwentysevenclub_]

Novara fast-tracking their TYT arc.

[@thomascuerden7797]

lovely discussion, needed to be said

[@andyweetabix]

what about the canceld song [ it will be freezing this christmas]

[@danielhoffman7414]

Aron , if you want to talk about alternatives to capitalism you need to speak Peter Joseph.

[@obibraxton2232]

How I would summarise Novara LIVE in 2024? I’ll be really honest and I hope nobody comes for me but Michael Walker has surprised and disappointed me this year more than any other host. It become evident that he’s Centre more right leaning than left leaning especially when he’s had his arguments with Dahlia or Arron or even Barnaby in the past. (MSM is full of centrist we don’t need any more) It makes Michael come across slightly misinformed or ignorant during certain debates. Having said that I hope we get to see more Barnaby on Novara LIVE in 2025 !

[@blackdogbarking]

very good discussion [reckon ron B [key gone] spot on with labour strategy.

[@blackdogbarking]

live & let live no freedom with poverty.

[@sophiepooks2174]

Exactly, all the rage bait is about money making, divide and conquer, not of these people care about the BS issues they invent and cash in on, they would rather see millions of deaths/WW3/scorched earth mentality than reform the current Neo-liberal unsustainable model of crapitalism ever change anything, it works well for them so STFU.

[@dovic86]

1:00:36 Paul Mason (almost) mentioned

[@stevekearslake7501]

The historical shift of what is considered 'centre' politically would be an interesting debate in itself. why not give that an airing in a special?

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

Political triangulation and the dark arts.

[@sophiepooks2174]

Especially as the Overton window has shifted so far to the right in most western countries.

[@andybrice2711]

I reckon Ash should definitely meet with Richard Tice, it'd probably be interesting. I've heard a few right-wing nationalists admit that they have a begrudging respect for Ash. Because although they profoundly disagree with her on many things, she seems to be up for an honest debate.

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

And Ash, regardless of her politics, is undeniably charismatic, funny and attractive. The right understands the importance of those qualities. The left ignores them.

[@blackbeard00]

If you'll are gonna cover American politics you need to have more Americans on!

[@bentz98125]

Framing the Ukraine war as territorial obtusely misses Russia's understandable obsession with the existential threat of regime change at the hands of NATO.

[@stfnba]

Imperialism does not stop at the border of US, or France. There is a Russian imperialism, Chinese imperialism and Turkish imperialism (as teh PKK) etc and by the way, these were all Empire in the past (Britain, France, Russia, the Ottoman Empire etc)

[@fancyprinter]

What really drives me nuts about this exemption of the very valid anxiety on the part of the Russians (though the invasion was 100% illegal, the PROSPECT of a military alliance is not causus belli) is that if a power hostile to the West like China or Russia pulled this alliance crap in Canada or Mexico, the US would not HESITATE to shut it down by whatever means necessary. The double standards are out of control

[@lewis9159]

And yet, very predictably, Russia's actions have reinvigorated and enlarged NATO. If Putin didn't see that coming he was dangerously naive.

[@johnmoorefilm]

National Socialist WORKERS Party may be what clued-in Reform on how to approach getting elected…?

[@roybruno100]

I love Ash. I'm white passing too..

[@itsaykay]

ALL politics is identity politics. Be it based on class, race, religion, region, sexuality, occupation, capitalist production, party affiliation, nationality etc. People's identities are complex and cross-cutting. They're also activated or turned off when certain groups are attacked, especially when it is existential. When I see pejorative portrayals of identity politics, it simply betrays how much the said political commentator doesn't understand or identify with certain groups.

[@andybrice2711]

I don’t buy this argument at all. Obviously all politics touches on issues of identity. But that doesn’t mean it can reasonably be described as _“identity politics”._ Unless it places identity as central and paramount. Just as it wouldn’t make sense to say _“All politics is nationalism.”_ just because it inevitably involves issues of nationhood.

[@sophiepooks2174]

@@andybrice2711 All politics doesn't revolve around nationhood though, it is corporate interests mostly. Everyone has an identity it has been so ridiculously politicized and become a dirty word used by the right to de-legitimize human rights issues, over protecting and empowering oligarchy.

[@jagonchichon590]

Michael walker is so knowledgeable and incredibly articulate but he should dress like what a mainstream audience perceives to be a 'serious' journalist. It shouldn't matter but Image is so significant, if you want ppl to listen to and absorb your message.

[@munchuriancandidate]

Always the fascist co-opts things. Think we’re getting caught up in the co-opting vs real struggle.

[@tmaxyb]

Have Scott Horton on the show. He has a new book on Ukraine.

[@joanneward6746]

What happened to Dahlia?

[@callyyeadon2653]

👍❤️🎄

[@TheBananaLoverorignal]

Anxiety is not mainly to do with smartphones. I'm brokies michael!!!!

[@TedThomasTT]

Yeah one of his stranger opinions. Probably influenced by people dunking on him via Twitter

[@wdb-q4y]

@@TedThomasTT Like many of thier opinions, such as the wanting everyone to be jolly thing, it comes from a place of security that a lot of us don't have. As their careers have developed and their lives have improved so much, I think they've inevitably lost touch with how much many are truly suffering.

[@markmcgowan442]

Michael Walker's bastardisation of CBT to make spurious arguments about societal harm needs to be strongly refuted

[@andybrice2711]

He’s relaying Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff’s argument. And I think when they make it in full, it’s very persuasive.

[@ACHUNDOI]

Aaron having a tabloid moment attacking GG was a blot on the NM project. Maybe Aaron should have a back of house roll...

[@mawkernewek]

15:00 remember the Brexit Party teaser ram from 2019!

[@Manuscriptsdontburn1990]

What Bastani is getting at is what Bowden was saying over a decade ago. Left-wing capitalism.

[@tmaxyb]

Russia were never fighting for land. If the west had promoted the Minsk accord's none of this woild ever have happened. Crimea.... They lost that only because the US/ EU would have envelopled the Russian. Warm water port and given it to NATO..

[@mat-ur6qb]

Go Michael...

[@DaveATKIN]

Political drift in real time: by the time he hits 40/45 Michael Walker will be a full-on reactionary pundit on GB News.

[@samanthaday5097]

As a tactic, people on both ends of the spectrum use identity to nullify the legitimacy of other voices. It reminds me of Animal Farm's 4 legs good 2 legs bad

[@sophiepooks2174]

The both sides argument is bull sit, one is actively voting for a plutocratic dictatorship, while the left wants dignity and justice, better standards of living for all regardless of bank balance and assets.

[@Squeegeeee]

Race just doesn't matter that much

[@stephengardner4194]

You won't find this level of intelectual discusion anywhere else

[@SSRT_JubyDuby8742]

Like deployed 👍

[@johnmoorefilm]

The following terms have been dumped in the skip in 2024 as politically self-harming (or “dumpster” for our US cousins): “lived experience”, “my feelings”, “community”, “green new deal”, “the 1%”, “identity”, “liberal democracy”, “marginal”, “DEI”, and finally “me”…..feel free to update👍

[@sophiepooks2174]

What if the popular view was brown cardigans are ugly and I support making laws to outlaw them, is it just my unpopular opinion? or forcing someone to conform to my ignorance and prejudice? Does Nick realize systematic prohibition based on ignorance, is not the same as having people push back on his misinformed/outdated beliefs the result of loaded language and manipulation are based on?

[@blackdogbarking]

supported strt insted of ntionl service

[@shrimpoffthebarbie]

Waaaaay too much pro plus.

[@ohyesitsme]

We have a wonderful future with our Davos loving PM and Miliband the Mad with Net Zero

[@stevesmith1984]

Bastani could have been as huge as Tony Benn was. If only he was a commited Socialist. He has to stop being snidey. Look at some videos of how Tony Benn reacted to situations. Try to learn from him. Or just keep on being a clever yet snidy being. Your piss take of G.G. was a typical example of what I'm trying to get at. Ash is great, Michael is a nice Liberal. I still like Novara but am cautious of your commitment. Just my opinion.

[@blackdogbarking]

Im getting divorced the cbt stuff is great t Christmas

[@Phil-n7c]

Re Ash's final comments: your problem is you spend too much time talking on the internet and no time organising and building alternatives in the real world

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

Because there aren't real world alternatives. That's the reason. It's a tacit admission of defeat.

[@Phil-n7c]

@@intelligenceofacertainkind Look up community energy schemes, food co-ops, local currencies etc etc

[@Stoddardian]

Any fellow rightoids here?

[@sophiepooks2174]

🤮

[@velveteen100]

jumped the shark

[@orlaghscoreyauckland]

They are all abandoning us it feels like

[@Alden1957]

Socialism is a minority perspective.

[@clivechesterman6635]

Incorrect. In the UK nationalisation of rail, energy, water, gas, health and education. Higher taxes on the ultra wealthy and better investment in the public sector and infrastructure are also majority positions.

[@Aarenby]

Even if that was true (it isn't exactly) so what??

[@intelligenceofacertainkind]

Socialism, like capitalism is a useless term. It means everything and nothing and has terrible baggage. I think a mixed model, capitalism in some areas, socialism in others, such as what we had post WW2 in Britain is very popular. (It's hated by elites though.)

[@Aarenby]

@intelligenceofacertainkind are you saying you want a "thirdway"

[@noah5291]

The online leftist comments in here are making me ill, go read a book or volunteer or something, go outside please

[@CaptainSensible-z1z]

Comedy Gold - what a load of utter shite

[@Jack_Warner]

Lefty Corner.

[@strandedstarfish]

The real left, not that fake centre right left they have in Russia and the USA. Join us comrade and help improve the lives of everyone not just the elite.

[@ADAMPETERS-eu7md]

Enjoy

[@7dtdfil730]

Joined by snowflakes commenting about the left...

[@Jack_Warner]

@@7dtdfil730 I'm no Snowflake. I'm a far right bigot with a phobia of everything. I need to see a psychiatrist.

[@Aarenby]

Though Michael is a capitalist

[@NickDartnall]

Only idiots still push the Green Grift😂

[@jacquesdewet2661]

Why do your moderators timeout people with a different opinion on climate change? 😂 I see the left taking more L's

[@mikedonnarumma5337]

MALE EGO ,,,, SO SAD

[@JB-mh5xy]

Can you all please find someone other than this Ash lady? It's so infuriating listening to her speak. She's so unintelligent that she drags every conversation down. She treats it like it's gossip at the lunch table in high school.

[@terencemeikle534]

BA and MA from UCL

[@arymus]

Michael is the main centrist in the group and he often comments on how comparatively astute, original and clever he finds Ash. She might well be the most widely respected of Novara's presenters. The only people I see hating on her are RW racists. If you have a problem with her then it might be that Novara is generally outside your comfort zone. Do you have a problem with the other women of Novara? Which of them do you like? I am pretty sure they would all be confused by you approving of them and not Ash but maybe you can explain it??

[@zenaudio108]

Hard disagree and Ash (along with Dalia) is the Novara presenter and commentator I appreciate the most. Her take on identity politics here was well thought out and not just following generic points of view.

[@evelyncraig7243]

That is so rude .The three of them are great at what they do

[@ashnasarkar5814]

I've been trying to get myself sacked for years!