NOVEMBER 9 is worse than UGLY LOVE

[@ReadswithRachel]

The first 500 people to use my link will get a 1-month free trial of Skillshare! 🎉 skl.sh/readswithrachel04241

[@snicketylemony]

Hey, not sure where to ask this, but are you having trouble with your patreon? My membership didn’t auto renew and I thought it was bc I didn’t update my card info maybe (got a new one recently) but I’ve tried like 8 times today through paypal and apple pay, multiple cards but it keeps putting me back on your main page and says “join to unlock” 😢 I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong or if it’s not just me, pls help Sorry to ask here, I couldn’t find a direct ask/message option on that app

[@ReadswithRachel]

@@snicketylemonyhey! I haven’t heard of this happening before and I’m not sure there’s any tools on my end that could fix it. I’m so sorry! Patreon has a few bugs like this I’ve noticed.

[@burgundyyy]

Kyle KNEW what was up

[@879SCSP]

"Today we're going to react to November 9 by Coleen Hoover" Me: This is a canon event, I cannot intervene

[@awkwardhandmovements]

Every Colleen Hoover book: the man, no matter what he does or how toxic he is... ALWAYS gets the girl/what he wants. And you know what's even scarier? CoHo is a boy mom. 😬

[@edwardnotthevampire]

As a boy with a mom I must say: ugh 🤢. I’m depressed that there are other boys out there having their MOTHERS teach them that behavior like this is ok

[@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd]

Well now we figured out why CoHo writes what she does.

[@shatteredlazuli8092]

I mean, she did ignore and block a 16 year old who was sexually harassed by her son, so....

[@MetryTwintails]

You know what's even *MORE* scarier? CoHo is literally a *SOCIAL WORKER*

[@flootzavut30daychallenge]

@@MetryTwintails😮😮😮

[@kaialexander6806]

I've heard the phrase "suicide is the most selfish thing someone can do" so many times that it washes over me like water over a duck's back, but you highlighting it really made me realise just how cruel Colleen's writing on it is. For reference, someone that I'm very close to attempted suicide several times during a two and a half year period. I lost count of the actual number of attempts because there were so many. I was often the one who had to try and talk them down, but because of lockdown, I couldn't travel to be there for them physically so it was all over the phone. During that time, I never fell asleep before 4-5am because I was terrified that they'd call me in the night while I was asleep and so I would wake up and they'd be dead. I was so stressed about it I had to take half a year out from university. When the attempts ended, all the trauma I was unable to process during the time hit me like a train and my own mental health plumetted to unforseen depths. I began engaging in self-harm, and I'd developted PTSD from it all. I also had to move back in with my mom because I needed the support. There's no doubt in my mind that I was very negatively affected by the suicide attempts. I was. There's no two ways around that. _But_ I wasn't hurt because they were being selfish; there was nothing fucking selfish about it. They were in pain, they needed help, and they deserved and still deserve grace and respect. I have no ill will towards them; I have nothing but pride and love pouring out of my heart for them. At no point during that time did I think "wow, they're being selfish" so no, Colleen, suicide is not selfish. It's insulting, innacurate and irresponsible to portray suicide as if there are some motivations for it where it is noble and others where it is selfish. When I'm struggling with suicidal ideation, I'm not having selfish thoughts nor am I having noble thoughts, both of which are ideas that creep in to my mind sometimes and are ideas I know not to engage with. Suicide is suicide; assigning morality to it is ludicrous. The closest to "selfish" I can think of is when my dad's girlfriend threatened it (she may have gone further, I was 9 at the time and have spotty memories of it) in response to him breaking up with her, but that is not selfish either. She clearly needed help for her mental health and was in a very toxic relationship with my dad. It's not difficult to see that if you think about it for more than three seconds. The complete lack of compassion Colleen shows towards her fellow human beings is astonishing.

[@bishielurfer]

I've dealt with mental health issues my whole life so I have plenty of my own attempts, and I have had friends make attempts. Hearing people say it was selfish didn't help anything. I already felt like I didn't deserve to exist and like people would be better off without me. Saying I was being selfish just reinforced that idea. And when my friends made attempts, I never was upset with them or blamed them. I would just tell them I was so happy they were still around and give them all the support I could. I had a friend who called me after getting out of the hospital a few years ago. I'd been trying to reach them for days so when they finally called back I was just relieved to hear their voice. I remember they were surprised I wasn't upset with them. I was just like "the only thing I'm upset about is that I didn't know you were struggling so much." I just can't imagine guilting or being angry at someone for that.

[@Stephanie568]

One of my uncles (one of my mom's brothers) did commit suicide and years later someone (an ex-friend) told me that what he did was "selfish" and it made me really upset. He was never a selfish person so yeah.

[@abbysmith3126]

Man I’ve just seen the title for this one and my immediate reaction was ‘oh Mrs. Rachel… I’m so sorry’

[@ReadswithRachel]

Colleen should be apologizing NOT YOU

[@Persephone_Personified]

She owes the written word an apology... ...it burned my retina. . Lies and causing permanent physical damage and 5 more years of lies and ewww = Nov 9

[@asavagegarden]

the fact that colleen hoover is SO misogynistic and sells this awful misogyny to young and vulnerable people, especially women, over and over in every book she writes is fucking insane.

[@floreya67]

I'll never understand how these influential women peddle misogynistic shit for money to a vulnerable audience and are able to live with themselves.

[@asavagegarden]

@@M.H.I.A.F.T. no, she is misogynistic.

[@MegaCelacanto]

Well. Considering her adult son S. harassed a teen and her response to the girl reaching out was blocking, ignoring, and then after a lot of outcry, her final response was denying everything and going back to ignoring it... I'd say it's a pretty sure bet she's misogynistic.

[@asavagegarden]

@@M.H.I.A.F.T. when you write it over and over and over, its deliberate

[@elle8786]

My hope is that her male characters are so bad, young women will be outraged on the female character's behalf and start reading things that aren't as awful

[@Vashiane]

Not the baby coming in to check on you... that is so cute. I hope they're enjoying their Oreo day.

[@kirbysthiccthighs]

this😭 melted my heart lol, and the way she explained it to them- Rachel is such a good mom

[@yeenbean3318]

Same, that was super sweet.

[@palamedes4740]

"Goodbye 😁" "Goodbye 😅" That's adorable

[@amyallen6863]

Oreo day!!

[@marianamauricio]

the fact that in the original book Ben actually SA'd her and Colleen Hoover had to be told that r@p3 is wrong for her to remove it ...... 🤡🤡🤡

[@floreya67]

Wait wtf D:

[@marianamauricio]

@@floreya67 yup. She’s truly sick in the head

[@UrMentalHealth]

@@marianamauricio What. The. F*ck. What is wrong with that woman?!

[@crystalightz]

​@@floreya67 yes it's still in the older version of the book.... Fallon kept saying Stop and Ben replied with "I'm trying" and countinued to have sex with her... And her fans were still fine with it until a few people who weren't actually her fans came out saying this is literally SA and then more people started raging about it and then she removed it... Like she literally had to be told what is SA. And what it means to ask for consent

[@presshusfightlady3966]

Ain't surprised by that considering the bit in the beginning where he undresses her and puts her in a dress she didn't want to wear and then she cries and he still has her wear the dress anyway Who cares if she's emotionally ready for this sh1t, might as well not check in with her and just do what you wanna do, you clearly know best you arsonist piece of ass

[@mst3kharris]

I may have mentioned this here already, so please forgive me if I have. When I watched Krimson Rogue’s takedown of this alleged “book,” I was struck by him mentioning the detail that Fallon suffered fourth degree burns. I’m a breast cancer survivor who had a unilateral mastectomy roughly two years ago. I’m still dealing with the fallout of that surgery: lymphedema, limited arm mobility, and possible permanent loss of sensation in my underarm area. And that surgery was far less complicated than dealing with fourth degree burns! There is absolutely no way I can believe that Fallon is healed well enough to be walking around with what sounds like relatively minor scarring and no loss of limb or limb usage, let alone moving _across the country_ from her care team! From what I’ve heard, recovering from extensive burn injuries is a slow, taxing process, and I find Hoover’s ill-researched depiction of them incredibly disrespectful. Not to mention her prose is excruciating. ETA: oh, one more thing! I looked it up: the statute of limitations in California for arson is six years. Which means that Fallon found out about Ben setting the fire _one year too late_ for criminal charges to be filed. When I tell you I seethed…!

[@randompromises1038]

I always found it strange her severe burns only affected her appearance and nothing else. I may have never experienced severe burning (the worst I ever endured was a grease burn on my wrist and the scar's long faded now) but would it not make walking difficult? Moving around? How much smoke did she inhale? Would that not cause longterm problems too? It's so unrealistic her burns solely affect her appearance and nothing else.

[@mst3kharris]

@@randompromises1038 now that I think about it, the fact that Fallon has extensive scarring but no long-term damage or impairment is a really good metaphor for Hoover’s books. She writes these horrific situations but there’s no actual human pain in any of them. Everybody floats through the narrative and bangs out their issues and then everything is fine. Feh.

[@bumbabees]

its not surprising colleen just wanted the look of scars because she thinks theyre "hot" or something. its infuriating, though. scars can be very painful. if not physically, then emotionally. hell, all ive got is a relatively unnoticeable scar from when i cut myself years ago, the only one i retained out of them all, and it _still_ bothers me, because even if other people cant see it without it being pointed out ill always know its there. ill always know why. its going to be a lot worse for a massive injury like that. for a whole boat load of different reasons. im beyond tired of trauma being used solely as a plot point or for fetishization. if youre not going to write trauma with the sensitivity and accuracy it deserves, then you shouldnt write it at all.

[@SodaPopJX]

​@mst3kharris and in one short youtube content you've exercised more critical thinking and creativity than all of her books combined. 😂 seriously such a great observation

[@HungryEyes-sl3mu]

The best thing about surviving this CoHo review is learning about Oreo Day.

[@stephanie_1120]

I will only ever 'read' a CoHo via Rachel. This is the way it's meant to be portrayed 😂

[@ReadswithRachel]

This is the same thing I do with todays Christian films. I will never watch them but I WILL consume every video essay on them 😂😂

[@mst3kharris]

@@ReadswithRachelhave you seen Acolytes of Horror’s video on The Passion of the Christ as splatter horror? I watched it again for Easter; I really like it. I will warn you that he’s still a Christian (I think), but he mostly talks about it in terms of contrasting a life of Jesus film he really likes with The Passion.

[@moonstone___]

i’ve literally never read a single coho book but i can give detailed plot summaries and direct quotes of several because of so many videos taking them apart :D

[@annabelledrake2027]

if you’re looking for more entertaining colleen slander, nikkie carreon has some really good videos on her books. She isn’t really a booktuber as in her content doesn’t always revolve around books or reading, but her COHO videos are gold.

[@mst3kharris]

@@annabelledrake2027 excellent. I shall look them up.

[@Tamaki742]

The worst part is I've seen people who I assume are younger, justifying the romance and forgiveness with "he didn't know Fallon was inside!" Like dude, if I purposefully hit someone else's car, thinking I'm gonna kill a specific person or maybe not even kill them but it turned out to be someone else, I'd still be charged with at least grievous bodily harm, maybe conspiracy to commit murder. I can say sorry all I want, I still committed a crime.

[@roxannehuston6268]

Oh man... Thank you, Kyle, for punching Ben. Her mom should go straight to jail, and Ben should have been in jail the whole time for arson. Her stabbing Ben in the end would have been a great plot twist and an HEA if I'm not mistaken.🖤 And I totally wrote a Benton into 1 of my books. I love obscure and vintage names.

[@marisagettas]

“Sir!?!? That will be one jail. Pay up.” 😂😂😂☠️☠️☠️

[@angiecullen97]

@@marisagettas I laughed so hard with that and the "mom jail" part

[@teylawhite687]

When the person who was clearly the one who was slighted in a conflict is the one who ends up asking for forgiveness, and that notion goes completely unchallenged, is truly one of the most frustrating things that can happen in a book

[@joyc.e.7511]

Couldn't agree more.

[@bishielurfer]

For real! I understand having the character trying to apologize as it's a common thing among people who have trauma or are conflict avoidant. But, if you're not trying to portray an unhealthy/abusive relationship, it shouldn't just be accepted and brushed over. I'm absolutely a person who apologizes even when I didn't do anything wrong because I'm terrified of being abandoned. But, if it's not my fault, my friends and partner always tell me I didn't do anything wrong and don't need to apologize.

[@ccbb8115]

out of all of this, CoHo writing a burn survivor be totally ashamed of herself, only to be won over by a man who compares her full body burn scars to a lazy eye is what made me cringe the most. did colleen even meet any burn survivors before writing this book? breathe in the direction of one?

[@mst3kharris]

No, and I think she did that on purpose. If she had written about Fallon’s skin grafts and having extensive physical therapy to learn to walk again and regain the use of her arm, the surgeries to reconstruct her breast and face… Who could read about that agonizing process and cheer for Ben to succeed? Any focus on what Fallon would have experienced as someone with extensive, deep burns would have revealed that her romance with Ben is absolutely unbelievable.

[@emackenzie]

​@@mst3kharris exactly this. Her focus is not being physically attractive, and he finds her physically attractive. So, in the logic of the story, all's good in the end because he can give her what she felt he took away. If she had been left with life-long pain or mobility issues, it would have been a hell of a lot harder to brush off the consequences of his actions, but this is a CoHo erotica so she just needs to get over her insecurities and feel sexy again.

[@deen7530]

@@mst3kharris I don't know why she didn't just write Fallon with like, first-degree burn scars or something. It still doesn't make what Ben did okay at all, but that at least that would remove most of the medical issues that Fallon should have. Did CoHo even look up what fourth-degree burns are? That's burned down to the bone. Fallon should have amputations and chronic pain and all kinds of medical issues.

[@mst3kharris]

@@deen7530 Exactly.

[@yinyinbun]

She tried romantic thriller/suspense with Layla and Verity and both were just as horrific. DON'T read Verity as that would majorly trigger you but boy I'd love to see your reaction to the male lead's behavior in Layla.

[@ReadswithRachel]

Oh I’ve been warned away from Verity by EVERYONE so I will be avoiding it very much lol

[@Heather_Duke]

I'd like to suggest that anyone who finds horrible stuff happening to children triggering avoid Verity at all cost. From reviews I've listened to, it's pretty awful. Though I will say, Colleen's ideas of "sexy" scenes is hilarious since she had Verity (and the main character in the book) both apparently bite the headboard when getting it on with the guy. Like they're beavers or something.

[@katherineeaster5799]

I don't know, I think if you go into Layla with the proper mindset (that it's the most ridiculous depiction of possession ever) it could at least be entertaining. Not good, by any means, just entertaining.

[@Lemoncakelover678]

​@@Heather_Dukethe book is also way too into the smut scenes too. Like your a thriller book, not an erotica. Where TF is the thrill here?

[@moonstone___]

verity had such potential honestly. if she REALLY leaned into the horrific nature of the story it could be a great thriller. instead it’s just ableist and her usual romanticization of abuse and she’s like, yeah. perfect.

[@Lemoncakelover678]

I noticed a pattern in hoovers books where forgiveness is portrayed as an obligation and not a personal thing the affected gets to decide. This book along with any other where forgiveness plays a factor, the hurted character is practically forced to forgive the one that hurted them such as the mom to fallen, it pisses me off

[@emackenzie]

It feels like it feeds into the whole "not forgiving someone is like drinking poison and hoping it hurts the other person" idea. Like, no, it's not! It's walking away from someone who has already poisoned you and refusing to take another drink from them. No one is owed forgiveness, and you don't need to forgive someone so you can heal

[@Viteaification]

​@emackenzie but but! The Hatred!!!

[@haggisa]

Its part of that Christian idea, that you’re a bad person, if you’re not willing to forgive. Which is incredibly toxic, because it can further traumatize and guilt trip victims of horrific abuse.

[@antheathetiefling8581]

Lol, Please don't associate Papa Roach with this trash.... Spoilers The ending would have been better if the "Fallon forgives him, they are in love and together!" Was Ben writing his perfect ending from prison after breaking his restraing order and the arson. Fallon, gave the manuscript to the police. She gets threapy and lives her best life without Ben.

[@ReadswithRachel]

YES! That ending would have been so much better

[@mst3kharris]

I looked it up: the statute of limitations for arson in California, as far as my non-lawyer self can tell, is six years. Assuming I understand the timeline of the book correctly, Fallon found out Ben set the fire _seven years_ later. It’s one year too late for criminal charges to be filed.

[@Lemoncakelover678]

See November 9 would be great as a horror

[@antheathetiefling8581]

@@mst3kharris ah, OK. I am non American and didn't know that.

[@mst3kharris]

@@antheathetiefling8581 I didn’t either! I looked it up because I was hoping Fallon could still press charges. When I found out it was too late, I got mad all over again, lol

[@mel4957]

If anyone acted towards me the way CoHo "love interests" did I would immediately reenact the Ides of March

[@Melanie_Dawn]

I love that your child came to check on why you were screaming 🤣 That’s a good kid you have, checking on their Mom

[@cylexia]

hearing your kid ask "why are you _screaming?"_ in a judgemental tone is the best part of my day so far. thanks for the video 🙏 i second fallon stabbing ben as the canon ending

[@marie-c.r4136]

Alternative ending: When Fallon realises he broke the restraining order, she dials the authorities. After a quick investigation, the police arrest Ben. While being handcuffed, he promptly tells the police that " he too, is scared by the fire, and that he didn't mean to hurt her". Intrigue by the statement, the officers remind him he has the right to remain silent, but silence and guilt are not attributes Ben possesses. He confessed to the police. Everything, without leaving any detail. The police give a fine to Ben since he broke his restraining order. They also kindly advised him not to do it again. On November 9th, Ben hears a knock on his door. Maybe Fallon has forgiven him after all. Excited, he opens the door to see two police officers with a warrant. He is arrested for arson -- disregard for life. During his trial, he is being asked if he regrets anything. No was the answer. The judge smiled, and he sentenced him to life in prison. THE END *** Please my apologies, English is not my first language, but I believe my ending is satisfying. Also, since I'm Canadian, my legal references are based on the Canadian criminal code (section 433 C.cr). I don't really know how the American court system works (I also don't really care).

[@mittag983]

Why did I imagine "the judge" from blood meridian 😂? Well at least I know won't make it out alive with Judge Holden by his side.

[@elliemr5427]

awww i hope your son enjoy oreo day, a nice palate cleanser in the middle of this mess

[@ReadswithRachel]

Thank you 💕

[@rainydayjules]

What you said about the guy never thinking about what he did in his narration reminded me of the video game Heavy Rain. It’s a murder mystery where you play as four different characters, and at any moment you can press a button and hear what your character is thinking. In the end, it turns out that the killer is ONE OF THOSE FOUR CHARACTERS?!! Which means you press a button and hear him think, “huh, I wonder who did that” SIR YOU DID IT!!!

[@ReadswithRachel]

N O !!!! see that would drive me nuts

[@mst3kharris]

Damn this short term amnesia!

[@lanaharper9798]

Feel like that’s the issue with a Big Twist if you don’t pull it off right lol

[@jenny5272]

I am still so angry about this plot twist.

[@atanvardecunambiel8917]

Press X to Jason moment

[@typotyche172]

At this point, I'm hoping a book will come along where the mc's are like "The sex was eh, but servicable" or "The sex sucked, but the cuddles after were nice", just something other than "Damn, that missionary was so PEAK nothing will ever top that"

[@Viteaification]

or at the very least "that was silly and embarrassing but still fun"

[@RikkiLove0317]

Sex scenes where the characters don’t really know what they’re doing are honestly my favorite, they just feel a lot more genuine and sweet

[@iFlutterbye]

“So shut up forever.” THIS is the crossover we wanted, not ‘what’s their nuts’ from Ugly love.

[@Artbyhurricanyounot]

I believe this is the same book that was rereleased because originally it had a full on SA scene that Colleen thought was cute 🥲

[@omgmo1962]

SURE IS! Released in 2016 and i think republished in 2017

[@patriciaroos9987]

I never read any of her books and the more I find out about them I'm more and more glad I never did. HOW DO YOU THINK SA IS CUTE WTF 🤨

[@Artbyhurricanyounot]

@@patriciaroos9987 it’s cute because the main love interest is hot, of course 🤪🥲🫠

[@ZanZanzuki]

When you said "he's been reading books where girls like the aloof alpha males" I screamed "OMG, he's been reading Sarah J. Maas!" :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[@foxesofautumn]

That’s some supreme confidence from any 18-year-old. “Hi, girl my age I barely know. I can see what your struggles are and how to fix them so I’m gonna do that.” When you know his connection to her it only gets 100 times worse.

[@lovehatetragedy823]

"Colleen... we are enemies" 😂😂😂. That took me out 🤣😂💀!

[@JuliaElizabethGraves]

Coleen naming this book after my birth date was a hate crime

[@UrMentalHealth]

Same. I think everyone born on November 9 should come togheter and sue 🥲

[@pmpkn_soup]

the name benton just makes me think of ben ten

[@ReadswithRachel]

I was singing the theme song reading this!!

[@nancyjay790]

​@@ReadswithRachel It is catchy.

[@Heather_Duke]

I don't think Colleen knows how to write straight up romance (as in, romance where the guy isn't evil/a creep). This is just based off of reviews I've listened to and little snippets of her books that I've seen on twitter, but none of her male love interest seem in any way "normal".

[@Lemoncakelover678]

And the ones that are 'normal' are dipshits too, just not to the main character ig

[@katherineeaster5799]

I actually saw a video on Heart Bones and the guy is actually pretty normal/not creepy. He has a secret, of course, but it's the girl in the story who is an awful human being. Not sure that's any better, actually.

[@lanaharper9798]

@@katherineeaster5799Heart Bones is interesting to me because it actually doesn’t really have a lot of *ethically* objectionable things in it. So for me, it lays bare all the issues of craft. Because Heart Bones has bad prose and horrible dialogue, paper thin characters, laughable attempts at being edgy, and a really uncompelling emotional narrative 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@katherineeaster5799]

@@lanaharper9798 I really think of it as a worse version of The Last Song by Nicholas Sparks. The movie, anyway. I haven't read the book.

[@ghostoyster]

i hope in her next book. since she has characters from other books cameo sometimes, this book (Ben’s book) is being read by the female lead or she just finished and is crying happily about the ending, and the male lead (maybe they’re on the train together) interrupts her reading and is like “have you heard the real story of the couple in that?” “um…no?” she responds “he killed her and his brother. you’ve never heard of the November Killer?” that’d be too meta for Colleen though

[@deen7530]

This but if Fallon burned his house down in revenge as soon as she found out the truth

[@gingerjessietalks7685]

Have I seen 1,089,635 videos critiquing this book? Yes. Did I still watch this whole thing? Also yes. 💞

[@Marie45610]

I choose to blame the popularity of Hoover's books on why the Romance genre still gets a lot of flak. People who don't read the genre must think this is how all romance books are.

[@cakt1991]

Having read the romance genre for over 10 years now, I don’t even give her that much credit. She’s, at best, a mild symptom of a much larger issue, being only the modern incarnation of an evolving trend that has existed for as long as the modern romance genre has. Pick up any of the “popular” books from the 70s or 80s by authors like Kathleen Woodiwiss, Jude Deveraux, Johanna Lindsey, etc. that had Fabio on the cover and the dynamics are likely very similar…with the main difference that those books are set in historical times, and therefore have *some* excuse for the dynamics they portray (that and the politics of the time they were written, when women were just obtaining sexual liberation). And it’s far more common for romance detractors to pull from that, with a term like “bodice ripper” (coined originally due to the inclusion of 🍇 scenes in these older novels) now viewed as a universal pejorative for romances that have explicit covers, not to mention citing said covers as “Fabio covers,” never mind that not only has he not been on a book cover in a while, but romance has been shifting away from those covers overall. If you’re interested, there’s great romance scholarship that goes into all of the “why” begind the stigma of romance, and it absolutely predates CoHo. Maya Rodale wrote a fabulous book called Dangerous Books for Girls: The Bad Reputation of Romance Novels Explained, that goes into all of the things I mentioned and more. Disclaimer that I read a previous version that doesn’t entirely reflect the current publishing landscape, and while she has released an updated version with new content, I can’t say how she’s addressed the changes in publishing.

[@AshChiCupcak]

​@@cakt1991My mom was really into those old romance novels back in the day and she'd gush about how she used to sneak to read them as a teen and how good and smutty they were. Then I found out she read the fifty shades of grey series and loved it too, I immediately side eyed her. What were in those old romance books you were reading before that made fifty shades of grey look like a perfectly normal romance. Like, she couldn't even perceive how toxic the relationships were. She had parents who had a great marriage so I don't think she was normalized to it by them. I often wonder if reading those books at such a young age messed up her grasp on how a relationship should work. I've been giving her an existential crisis lately, making her slowly realize those things are not ok and I feel so bad because you can tell it's hard for her to accept 😞

[@cakt1991]

@@AshChiCupcak this sounds like a very common experience for many older romance readers…they stole books from their moms or grandmothers. But I hate the idea that a work of fiction is supposedly responsible for giving people bad ideas about how relationships work. They’re not meant to be instruction manuals. Obviously, those things aren’t ok in real life, but to say this also diminishes the fact that sometimes victims of abuse may use these books to work through their trauma, whether as a writer or a reader, something that I believe is also relevant to CoHo’s history, whether it be just her history with her parents or a toxic relationship of her own. But to imply a book that was written FOR ADULTS that a teen picked up when they weren’t supposed to is the author/publisher/book industry’s problem is very much related to the rhetoric around book banning. If your mom had had responsible adults monitoring her reading, this wouldn’t be an issue in the first place.

[@AshChiCupcak]

@@cakt1991 Oh I absolutely do agree, I'm not one to blame everything on one thing. Multiple factors in life have to back up and reinforce toxic traits to normalize them and you can't get that just from reading books. The time period back more heavily supported those kinds of romances so most people probably didn't see them as bad. Our awareness of these toxic traits seems pretty recent and it's the older generations that defend them so heavily most the time. I'm heavily against book banning, specially if those books can exist and Colleen Hoover can exist, there's no excuse to ban a book. Hell, I read exquisite corpse as a teen, extremely graphic disturbing book, it didn't bother me cuz it was just a book. Probably would have scarred me as a movie. Sorry for rambling. I'm autistic and trying to process my thoughts here and I kinda went off rails 😅 I appreciate your insight, your input was quite helpful

[@wildfire_writer]

That’s so funny. Your son was so worried about you screaming about this book. Maybe you should join him for Oreo Day 😂😂

[@RenaDeles]

My favorite detail is the fact that Ben is assuming their parents were dating, looking at the actual clues he has it's just as likely they were friends and the dad was sad that his friend is dead. Meaning he burned down a house over jumping to conclusions even more than he thought he did.

[@OxyMauron]

_Reminders of Him_ doesn't excuse the terrible actions of man for most of the book, read that next! ...It excuses the terrible actions of a woman instead.

[@MarcelleLeiturasPreguicosas]

every time you mentioned "he burned her hooouse" my mind radio played talking heads - burning down the house

[@seraphonica]

15:44 It's giving "I don't just write books... I read them, too! Aren't I so relatable, reader?"

[@robbiep.5497]

I legitimately screamed “WHAT?!” at the ending parking lot scene. Scared my poor dog and everything. I just…wasn’t prepared for that wild ride even though I should’ve expected it. Colleen Hoover….if there are pearly gates, you ain’t seeing them 😭😭😭

[@nancyjay790]

Hello, flame rotisserie! Would you prefer to be drizzled with bourbon or a different accelerant? Edit to add: The physical book, unless you have an e-reader or audio version. Just in case anyone thought I meant for Ms Hoover to have a date on a rotisserie.

[@monster-enthusiast]

37:18 It get's worse in the context of her book Verity. In every book she writes, the men do horrible things and it get's excused. In Verity, a woman does horrible things and get's eviscerated for it. (Spoilers for Verity and In Ends With Us if u care) But, for example, in IEWU, the abuser gets partial custody of his victims child, in N9 he straight up gets the girl, and in Verity the character Verity, a woman suffering from post-partum depression gets irredeemably vilified and murdered in her own home by the protagonists. Colleen herself has said in an interview that she didn’t know who the real villain was gonna be as she was writing it and then said that she thinks Verity is legitimately evil. Which means there was a version in her head, of a woman (with ppd and intrusive thoughts) who was only MISTAKEN for the villain, but the version she went with was to make her mental issues be the source of her "evil" behavior. Not to mention she portrays this woman she's deemed completely evil as presmiscuous and money oriented, and the mc as someone who kinkshames for some reason???? Weird, women hating, nasty behavior all around. And all the women besides the mc suck in her books too. And the mc usually always hates other women. And it's patterns that happen in EVERY book she writes.

[@emmy8495]

Tried to listen to this before sleeping… but now all I feel is rage

[@SuperEkkorn]

Never read a coho, never will. *grabs popcorn* Eta; you didn’t give it a rating, how many stars???? 😮

[@misstaniataylor]

Lol I am with you there!

[@ReadswithRachel]

Negative. Stars.

[@valerielevasseur8674]

​@@ReadswithRachel Black holes?

[@the_petty_crocker]

@@valerielevasseur8674 But black holes serve a purpose ...

[@valerielevasseur8674]

​@@the_petty_crockerA purpose they only serve if they truly suck.

[@kennashan]

For what it's worth...this is the one that waa re-edited , I think. There were actually some things they rethought, and took out because it was too far. They did an edit, and this version is the one they went with. Wow.

[@omgmo1962]

it was published originally with an SA scene in 2016 and then she faced so much backlash that it retracted and rewritten in 2017 iirc definitely wasn't her own realization that it was bad.

[@kennashan]

@@omgmo1962 Nope, we were told it was the publisher's decision.

[@LadyKnightMare]

Wow, that’s insane but I’m also not surprised

[@ReadswithRachel]

There was a WHAT

[@kennashan]

@@ReadswithRachel I think the bar scene. He puts his hands up her....... skirt, in public, while she's saying no. Reason 1,384 why I loathe these books.

[@matocajsa9096]

the best part of video. Kid: Mom why are you screaming?

[@ashmac2699]

The way I cackled out loud when you said “Sir, jail, that will be one jail” 😂 my daughter and husband were both like “you good 😐”

[@saint-juste]

"That'll be one jail. Pay up." Is so good lol.

[@iahfuyu]

"To be young and naive- as i was last month" Felt

[@Drakochannojutsu]

I am laughing so hard at the tone of your kid's "Why are you screaming?" and then just ok i'm gonna eat this oreo lol. I saw Alizee's review of this and so I knew what was coming so I could not wait to hear your takes, I cannot understand how any of CoHo's books are so popular, and it makes me worry for the girls who think this is peak romance they are getting set up to be in the WORST relationships if they carry these ideas over to RL

[@lrae9519]

All I hear is Cindy's voice - "girl stand up"

[@hyenaedits3460]

Your kid coming in to check on you 😂😂😂

[@weirdobookclub]

Why did I start singing the papa roach IMMEDIATELY and then it shows up.

[@weirdobookclub]

SHUT UP FOREVER

[@guamjewel]

I got the notification for this and went "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Oh, Rachel.

[@mythicalcreaturecomforts]

Ok but imagine she said that last line about needing his forgiveness, all up close in his ear, and then stab, stab, stabbity, stab, stab. Much bettet

[@kymar4810]

How do people read this and not cringe in embarrassment? And they also find it sexy??? It truly boggles the mind.

[@jacobdavis3359]

I think we all need the weed for this one

[@ReadswithRachel]

Tbh I should’ve smoked before doing this. I was worried I wouldn’t follow my notes but honestly who cares 😂

[@jacobdavis3359]

@@ReadswithRachel honestly with how unhinged in incoherent Coleen Hoover is it really would make a difference

[@jules-fd1vq]

Thank you for reading her books so I will never have to 💞

[@ReadswithRachel]

You're so welcome! It’s a public service atp

[@floreya67]

​@@ReadswithRachelwe're so grateful 💚

[@ravenesperanza]

I won't ever read a Hoover book, but I come here for the I-can't-look-away-train-wreckiness of the reviews.

[@HoHoMyLad]

Man, I want an Oreo Day…especially after listening to this plot. Woof.

[@ReadswithRachel]

My kid was onto something with that 😹

[@caffeinatedangel]

Your sweet child coming in to check on you "why are you screaming?" too cute, I almost died.

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

You know, if someone approached me the way Ben first approached Fallon, I would loudly call them out, deny knowing them, and tell them to back off and leave me alone or I’d call the police. That man is a creep with a capital CREEP.

[@tyler-df3wy]

Im a big fan of some extremely toxic relationships in media, but CoHo literally has no idea how to write good toxic couples. A lot of the fun comes from the medium understanding that it’s an awful relationship between awful people. Some of my favourite couples have stabbed, tortured, and manipulated each other to hell and back, and the narrative always gets that they aren’t good together Even if the couples end up together, it’s the legitimate self-awareness that makes it enjoyable. When the writers think they’re acceptable and that the love interest is an amazing person, it just becomes infuriating

[@moonstone___]

same, but honestly i think a big part of the appeal for me is a supernatural element to WHY they’re doing enemy shit. it’s much harder to do with regular humans and she is absolutely whatever the opposite of nailing it is.

[@MarcelleLeiturasPreguicosas]

the last book I've read was "Born, Darkly" and that is a good example of a good toxic couple. it's marked as dark romance but I would say is more romance suspense/thriller. is like if Dexter fell in love with Clarice from Silence of the Lambs, but she's a psychologist.

[@moonstone___]

@@MarcelleLeiturasPreguicosas that sounds like an excellent version of a fully human possibility !

[@floreya67]

​@@moonstone___I agree, I can absolutely love toxic supernatural couples, but with humans it's just meh.

[@saintdude6032]

It’s basically this to me: “This is bad” “Umm actually this is good cause blah blah blah” “This is bad” “yes”

[@hinduhillbilly]

This all would have been so much more bearable if I'd known from the beginning that it was Oreo Day.

[@mynaemismoos]

Your kids are so adorable. “Goodbye!” What a much needed interlude during ranting about November 9.

[@jennderqueer]

the absolute best part of this video: "Why are you screaming?!"

[@erikdaniels0n]

November 9 fills me with such a fucking rage that no other CoHo book does. I hate CoHo in general, but something about November 9 is so icky to me. I HATE IT

[@mittag983]

It's the ableism for me

[@SilentHarpist]

Oh my gosh the cut to Papa Roach had me choking on my drink that was incredible

[@zvikomboreromukamba3389]

I had the same experience Rachel. But if you pretend it's a thriller it becomes less torture

[@synthiasparkle6482]

I just realized this could have been a psychological suspense story if instead of insane romance, we had Fallon want to find out who burned her house down. For starters, we could have had Ben succeed in killing the father and getting away with it for two years. He has to leave town and only comes back for his brother's wedding. And then the following year when they have a child together. And then when that other person dies. See how this story has more potential to work if IT'S ABOUT FINDING THE ARSONIST? It would be like a game of cat and mouse. Fallon could be motivated by the death of her father who she had a bad relationship with and the fact that she survived. With time dwindling, Fallon only has a couple of years left to find the suspect. And then she could look into her father's past history and even the neighborhood to find out that he was in love with Ben's mom- a woman who committed suicide. The fact that there was an affair. All the while, Ben (a sick evil person actually portrayed as one in this version) has been pursuing Fallon. Fallon isn't swept away, but wary. I feel like from there Fallon could get him to drunkenly confess what he had done while wearing a wire and then finally JUSTICE BE SERVED! All the while Ben secretly has been writing NOVEMBER 9, where he's a misunderstood lover boy who gets off and wins the heart of a girl who he made confident (even her mother approves). His slosh would never be published, but instead used as evidence in his arson-murder case. As for Fallon being an actress, those skills should be useful to her if she wants to portray herself as an aloof, innocent girl. It isn’t about getting justice for her father, but rather for herself.

[@brighidmcmullen9577]

I don’t even like suspense but I’d read that!

[@lenapawlek7295]

The ending of this book drives me absolutely nuts - also i thought the bathroom sentences were jokes you made up and not quotes 😭

[@P0rk_Sinigang]

Here's hoping that Carlos learns that forgetting kiss spell so that you may one day be free of this CoHo curse.

[@reading_faerie]

20:00 lmaooo my husbands name being Kyle this meme KILLS ME EVERY TIME

[@AceOfSpades455]

The fact that you mentioned the fire for the first time, and my VERY FIRST thought was "oh, the love interest did it didn't he". Yeah no, not predictable at ALL😭

[@barbararowley6077]

I think the only way I’d read a CoHo is if she wrote a collaborative novel with Christina Henry. Ms Hoover sets up the man behaving awfully, then Ms Henry eviscerates him. Possibly literally. Very cathartic.

[@juleselizabeth]

Ben is garbage and deserves to be jailed and stay far away from her. Her mom pissed me off at the end. I hate this book. 😑👎

[@melvin9888]

Colleen actually wrote a thriller once called ‘Variety’ and it STILL ended up being a toxic romance that exuded a man for killing his wife and some random innocent lady. Also it had so much misogyny and ableism it’s insane.

[@mst3kharris]

I have a question: when Ben introduces himself to Fallon’s dad, does Fallon’s dad not notice Ben has the same last name as his girlfriend? Or did Ben and his mom have different last names? This has annoyed me for a while.

[@mst3kharris]

@wormie1312 it’s not really an important detail, I guess, but how her dad didn’t immediately think, “Wait, is this her kid? How the hell is her kid dating my kid?” and hire a private investigator, I do not know.

[@JamesELFERS]

When fiction written by a woman makes a HERO out of an incel stalker it really makes those complaints about men writing women seem really, really petty.

[@katherineeaster5799]

I think my favorite thing about CoHo books is that they all have jobs, but we never see them at work. I thought maybe with her book Too Late that we might see the DEA agent (I think) do something, but I don't think much is shown. In Verity, whatsherface is an author, but we never see any of that, even though writing is the whole point of the book!

[@moonstone___]

the one where the girl works at a flower shop and her name is like Petal Stem Leaf or whatever shows her at work sometimes and it’s the most insane out of touch depiction of retail work it’s hilarious

[@katherineeaster5799]

@@moonstone___ I think in Reminders of Him, both characters work at a bar, but we don't see any of that beyond the first day they meet. I should say that I've only read Verity and watched videos of several others, so I could be missing information, but I don't think I am.

[@moonstone___]

@@katherineeaster5799 oh same for sure, i haven’t read any myself, just watched the videos lol. but that same criticism, that her characters are cardboard cutouts with no hobbies or jobs in practice, is a common thread.

[@Drudenfusz]

Someone should take you up on that idea to write that as a thriller, maybe call it November 10th.

[@moonstone___]

i have more than once contemplated taking the bones of these terrible plots and making them Better in a fanfic (about different IP characters).

[@skyedeegirl]

The editing choices……20 out of 10. I’m laughing so hard!

[@melowlw8638]

i absolutely did just wtach readwithcindy's review on this twice and i will watch this too with as much enjoyment 🤭🤭

[@HazelSageHP]

Oh my god, your kid coming in made me cackle - he sounds sweet! I hope you get an oreo day too to recover from that!!

[@BanjoJill]

The alternative of Fallon meeting Ben at the diner, but instead she throws the manuacript in his face to confuse him, pulls out a knife and gets her revenge is my ideal ending. 😊 I hate this man so much.

[@k-statekev6987]

Three constants in this world: de@th, taxes, and Rachel roasting Colleen Hoover. 😂

[@Devil6442]

I actuality read this one and by god it was rough my heart goes out to you

[@ReadswithRachel]

You Me 🤝 Suffering

[@RikkiPReads]

I saw Ugly Love on the book swap table at Silent Book Club today and I was so tempted just because but... no. I let it stay on the table lol

[@reading_faerie]

27:50 LMAOOO idk why but I spit when you said that’ll be one jail pay up 🤣

[@OrbitInsights13]

I made myself suffer reading Verity. That is unhinged. I think this is worse.

[@be_my_druidess]

tbh i just don't think the entire scenario could've ever worked in a non-toxic way. there isn't a way to portray him being weirdly fascinated with her scars that doesn't come off as him not completely regretting what he did.

[@marsarson3620]

the only colleen hoover book ive read is Verity and. um. the suspense was fine but the characters and the way they act is just SO bad and took me out of the story soo much that it was barely readable. also the amount of misogyny was unexpected and just ???

[@MarcelleLeiturasPreguicosas]

I've read people telling what the story is about and it's so unrealistic, I would have to suspend a lot of disbelief

[@mittag983]

Reads like a sexist podcast bro wrote it as a ghostwriter

[@roselover411]

I was totally going to say you should read Verity if you want a romance thriller, but i didn't think about how big of a trigger alert that is for probably a lot of people. I'm so glad you have people who can help you avoid running into those unknowingly 🙏

[@brigidbrown6881]

This is like One Day (didn't read the book, watched the limited series)

[@moonstone___]

it’s like coho head that thing women do sometimes where we pretend to know each other in public to protect each other from some guy and based a meet cute on it except the stranger IS the same guy and he’s doing it for his own benefit.

[@lanagomisc.6005]

You managed to get so upset that your kid was wondering what happened (it was a very cute wholesome moment). Hopefully the next book you have to review isn't as horrible as this one...

[@gingerbreadandtea]

The scream is exactly my reaction! Just...🤮