Now is a good time to give Melee a chance

Melee is a pretty good game.
Twitch: / thebestadam
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Twitter: / adam_carra
#supersmashbros
#melee
#slippi

[@alexanderstilianov]

"This is Melee. There's no hand-holding. You do it frame-perfect or you die." This is my favourite Mew2King quote.

[@Skapes11238]

Agreed, the day they make auto L cancelling legal is the day they lose all the top players.

[@m0ppu]

@@Skapes11238 i don't think auto l-cancelling would make top pros quit melee, but adding a big buffering window absolutely would

[@Brando550]

@@Skapes11238 auto-L cancelling is impossible because you need to be able to tech or shield with the same button.

[@theinktician]

The best part is thats how it is in every fighting game well, except well......you know

[@Lagoa_real]

“Figure it out b****, this is melee” is my new favorite catchphrase

[@MasterMarioMX]

Welp, the fact that Slipii's internet code is better than Ultimates is reason enough 4 me to 3.

[@skato7291]

Yup. Been playing melee since slippi added internal matchmaking and haven't touched it since. Ult online feels terrible with the input lag.

[@jaker414]

Melee’s online was better than ultimates even back when it was delay-based

[@scrotie4198]

slippi online has less delay than ult offline

[@MasterMarioMX]

@@scrotie4198 that's the astonishing part. it's almost as if you where there...ALMOST. i am as bad as usual in melee, but at least I can git gud.

[@scrotie4198]

@@MasterMarioMX tbh honest idc about lag cuz i play link lelelelel

[@primetimedurkheim2717]

Now would be a good time for Rivals to come to Switch.

[@Atheist_1940]

Yes

[@auroraanshi639]

With rollback

[@vross98]

Just play melee

[@Atheist_1940]

@@vross98 on switch?

[@ezanadaniel9149]

i’m so excited for it

[@KLGB76]

Platform Fighter : Melee is still evolving Racing Game : Mario Kart Wii is still evolving It's crazy to see how communities manage to make a game stay alive for way longer than it was intended to.

[@SoulHero7]

Now take that, apply it to a franchise, and now you know why Sonic is sill around.

[@dethkid7]

Is Mario Kart “The” racing game? I always liked CTR more but unless I’m missing something I’m down to get back into Mario kart

[@Marc-rw3dd]

@@SoulHero7 as a sonic fan, sonic isnt evolving. back in the day, sega used to release 2 good games a year.

[@drippyspaff7616]

Me and my brother were just having an argument as to whether or not Melee has any value last night. Sending this to him now. Thanks friend!

[@JFMHunter]

what argument could there be for melee not having any value? Sure a lot of people don't like it but it's pretty much impossible to ignore that it's still very popular and influential..

[@theinktician]

@@JFMHunter lol it's a limited Smash game. How can it not have value?

[@Bam010]

@@theinktician if it was limited why have people been playing for more than a decade

[@noodletribunal9793]

value? melee is sick af

[@infineable]

The year is 20XX we have perfect melee netplay and still an active playerbase.

[@infineable]

I'm really proud of this one

[@Skapes11238]

Melee will never die as long as innovations like this keep coming along. UCF was the first big breakthrough IMO, but slippi is earth shattering. Excited for the future as a spectator.

[@danieldoucet7607]

A fellow yoshi main! I'm glad to see you hate winning too!

[@MyAce8]

I feel bad whenever I play low teir mains. They're doing all the cool stuff, and then I'm just like "ANIME MAN SWING SWORD GOOD" and then they die.

[@danieldoucet7607]

@@MyAce8 I started playing Yoshi when I was in high school and had a uniqueness-complex so I never wanted to play a character everyone else played. Now 4 years later I'm in too deep, that being said I have so much fun with Yoshi it's totally worth it.

[@ramtheman8044]

Yoshi’s sick homie and definitely can win!

[@xenotiic8356]

I'm a Doc main. Help me.

[@karlcossaboon7072]

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO L CANCEL lmao I'm dying

[@michaelpos2099]

"I don't consider myself to be apart of the melee community." *Plays Yoshi*

[@IAm-zo1bo]

Yeah whats ur point

[@PoorStargazer]

@@IAm-zo1bo Yoshi is a mostly beloved and skillful high tier that people root for

[@nothingimpossible9450]

@@IAm-zo1bo he's really fucking hard. lcancelling is the least of adam's problems when yoshi is his main

[@WeSkillNow]

L canceling deepens the defensive options, which is the secret to melee's beauty. L canceling has a variable timing because of when you hit, and you can choose to light/hard/power shield to make your opponent mess up and punish them for punishing them. But most people try to just use movement to punish anyway

[@kianjelogiorgio1713]

Exactly, auto l cancel takes away from people actually doing the move, and it gives people free sheild pressure

[@wes8448]

Idk I’m not really on either side but like. Lcanceling doesn’t really add depth because it’s not a choice. Every other advanced tech has alternatives. Wavedashing/dashing, shield drop/Jump out of shield, ledge dash/edge guard or jump to ledge. Lcancel has no alternative therefore not “real” depth

[@ClassicBentobox]

Wełłs I don’t think L cancelling has that much depth either, but it does raise the skill ceiling, and I think it’s definitely an important part of what makes Melee Melee

[@WeSkillNow]

@@wes8448 it DOES have depth because your opponents chooses to mix up your timing

[@Brandonious15987]

@@WeSkillNow You don't need L canceling for that. You said it mixes up your timing. Okay but why would you not want to shave off the frames? When you L cancel you can choose to delay your next option without being as vulnerable. So you don't need to not L cancel for the delay. When would you ever need to not L cancel? The only benefit I can see from L canceling is helping to balance combo heavy characters.

[@MyAce8]

9:33 I connect with this on a visceral level. People are talking about the integrated match making, and better netcode, but for me the real selling point is finally getting to play people worse than me instead of the sweaty people from anthers ladder. wow im insecure

[@Pslamist]

The main reason I am an advocate for preservation is that if you go to an IRL tournament at some point, they may not be running Dolphin, they may not let you set up your own controls, they may not have your tap jump disable mod, they may not have L-cancelling set up, and that's even before you talk about if they *should* or not. Changing the way people can play in practice inhibits their potential future in the game, and eliminates their opportunity to in the long run. Why choose that for anyone? Accessibility isn't worth it if it reinforces long-term bad habits.

[@gingerale1591]

@Adam Thompson The thing with modding Melee is that Nintendo is definitely against it. A lot of big tourneys don't even run UCF, which accounts for random variance between controllers, because Nintendo doesn't support modding Melee in any way.

[@Appletank8]

That assumes i’m ever going to try a tournament. You want to practice for comp, sure, keep it the same. If that’s not a priority, and never will be, ehhh?

[@kalanielibrenoklinke9440]

It's only considered a "bad habit" because people decided to see as that way. What I hate about the discourse around this game is that everything boils down to "get good", not everyone wants to spend their whole life trying to perfect their L cancel or wavedash. Nor everyone wants to play competitive.

[@tintinjoestar2894]

@@kalanielibrenoklinke9440 just don’t play it then

[@kalanielibrenoklinke9440]

@@tintinjoestar2894 I don't. I'm just criticizing people who are very elitist about a game designed to be played casually.

[@Mitchell555100]

Personally, I think having things like UCF and slippi are amazing for melee and help build the community. But I do have concerns when introducing things like auto L canceling. I believe that making melee easy to access is very important, but ease of access does not mean making mechanics easier. Part of the magic in melee is seen when someone does a cool combo. Was it a sick combo that you haven’t seen before? Probably, and that’s cool enough. But what makes even better is the fact that you know how hard it is to do a similar combo yourself. There’s so many technical aspects going into that combo that you have just that much more appreciation and respect for what that player just did. If you have a different view, feel free to drop a comment below so we can discuss more!

[@Xrelent]

Back when I played a lot, there was a point where L-cancelling became a pretty free part of my gameplay except during abiguity/whiffs. I even started to learn double shoulder L-cancelling so I wouldn't ever miss an L-cancel, but I lost motivation when I realized I was adding yet another rote input to my slowly dying spacie hands. On the other side, I will admit that there is a certain thrill to mastering L-cancelling and pulling combos you never thought you would be able to do. It just got annoying once I got good at it, and I found it unsatisfying when I would cheese newer players who hadn't mastered L-cancelling.

[@Xrelent]

Also I went to a local after almost two years of not playing and it took me like 6 hours to get L-cancelling back lol

[@Xrelent]

Also (sorry for the multiple long replies!) there're a bunch of other ways that Melee has a skill-cap. Off the top of my head, namely precision, good angles, timing, reaction time, decision making, and my personal favorite: the general lack of buffers.

[@plet0707]

What you just described is why I love watching Melee. I can admire all of the mechanics and precision and techniques that go into it, but I am not about to go into practice mode for 8 hours a day for a month to try and master a single technique. I know that's hyperbole, but it gets the point across.

[@Mitchell555100]

Jesper0707 951 and not wanting to go practice all of that is reasonable. But I think that’s also what makes melee such a good spectator’s game

[@MyAce8]

just to hammer in how insane of a feat of engineering slippi is. While Ultimate is a game with multiple full time developers with access to source code working on it's netcode. Slippi is a volunteer project that required them to reverse engineer the melee ISO, and inject assembly for proprietary hardware (the wii), and it's still better. As a programmer this blows my mind.

[@kevwox]

Ace shinigami it blows my mind that it was one dude’s quarantine project. It had really good timing for its release, too

[@adjmonkey]

That is insane. Glad he figured out how to use the chip though . Assembly is so powerful it’s amazing when you can use it this well. Do you know of resources/documentation for how he handled the programming? It’s crazy

[@MyAce8]

@@adjmonkey Luckily there's been a bit of work on writing mods using dolphin. I haven't learned myself, but if you just research gecko codes you should be able to learn some stuff.

[@MyAce8]

after a quick google search: smashboards.com/threads/assembly-guides-resources-q-a.397941/. Also checkout the slippi discord it has all of the best melee moders in it (although I'm sure they're all busy with answering questions about slippi these days)

[@randomd00d19]

We need to push project+ a lot more as well. Really good stuff.

[@Mitchell555100]

Sadly the issue is that a lot of large tournaments won’t push it (or at least stream it) because it’s a full on mod of brawl. Project M originally disappeared from big tournaments because Nintendo spoke up about it since it was a mod of their game. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing would happen again

[@adjmonkey]

Project+ is really fun but it’s not as polished, the online is now terrible by comparison, and Nintendo’s ban hammer is terrifying for big tourneys.

[@burgers1]

I think melee shouuldn't be changed, but I also think that it being arbitrarily harder isn't actually a good thing. Rivals clearly showed that you can have all of the complexity and high skill ceiling without making random crap difficult

[@LettuceGod1]

Yeah my biggest gripe with melee is L-canceling. It’s so dumb because there’s no reason not to do it, but it’s so dumb that u have to do it.

[@moosemeep3694]

Lettuce God If a new game was made L canceling should not be in it. Like rivals did a good job with replacing L canceling. Because all L canceling is is an execution test. But in melee’s case, the game is kind of balanced around that execution test being there and removing l canceling would buff spacies. And to me, difficulty is a big part of what makes things impressive to see. Like how cool would proffessional basketball be if you could walk outside and instantly shoot as well as the pros? Not very impressive. You know how hard they had to practice to become that good and that makes it cool to see. Melee and basketball would not be as cool if you could be that good instantly. And that’s what some people want when they complain about L canceling. They want to be good but they don’t want to practice. Just because something is “optimal every time” doesn’t mean its bad. Especially because of things like L cancel timings being different if you whiff, or hit someone or their shield. And if you know someone is going to use an aireal and L cancel it, you can hit them and they will be locked out of teching because they L canceled

[@Shyverin]

Honestly tho, the ease to do the best thing 100% consistently in rivals makes it much less exciting to watch than melee for me

[@rickmoranisstan]

It's a bit too hard for its own good. But that's also what makes it so good.

[@GTXDash]

I have no idea what on earth you guys are talking about. Melee has ALWAYS been newcomer friendly. It's easier to get into than a traditional 1v1 fighting game like Street Fighter. My friends, my family and I don't use L-canceling because none of us know or care about it. Learning these advanced exploits is only useful if you plan on playing against advanced players at tournaments and such. But if you always get paired with these advanced players online then that's a problem with the pairing system. And if there are no casual players online then that is an issue with the fanbase being too elitist, not the game itself.

[@DrPumpkinz]

I don't think I've seen a game with movement as polarized as Melee's. When you're good, it looks and feels incredible. When you're bad, it feels like complete ass. I hadn't really thought about it before this video, but I think you're right about Melee's difficulty contributing to its longevity. To use an overused metaphor properly, Melee is the Dark Souls of platform fighters, and maybe even fighting games in general. When you first begin, it sucks. It feels like everything is working against you. But as you slowly start to master it, that hostility turns to empowerment. And it's this promise of conquering adversity that draws players to both games. Saying "I beat Dark Souls" or "I can play Melee competently" is a badge of honor. You _earned_ those bragging rights. This is mostly from what I can tell from observation. I'm bad at Melee, so the game still feels like ass to me. But damn is it fun to watch.

[@adjmonkey]

Top tip for the game: slow down your inputs, wait until you see each part of your action before moving on, and tighten from there. So many people try to move faster than their character- spoiled by modern buffering systems lol

[@brumpotungus6959]

8:59 Demonstrably + Monstrously = Monstrably = My new favorite word

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

This year is an awful year, but as far as video games are concerned this has been one of the best years possibly ever. I can't imagine how much worse off so many people would be without this year's games to keep them sane. Never a better year than this one for video games to be so good.

[@VergilSFD]

I need a list of these games because I have only bought 4-5 games in the last 10 years because almost everything has either felt like a step down (or holds no mechanical appeal to me) compared to the "great game" of each genre. The doom franchise being one of the few that I feel improves consistently.

[@Yeoffrey]

@@VergilSFD Animal Crossing New Horizons dropped literally days before most of the US went into lock down, not sure where I would be right now without it.

[@CallMeAGansterOfLove]

please keep making melee commentary stuff. I'm only a melee player, like nearly zero other games and you did the game so much justice in this video, thank you.

[@jhozan]

Ah yes, the game with bad wrastor.

[@rickmoranisstan]

Which character are you talking about

[@auroraanshi639]

@@rickmoranisstan Falco i think

[@hgt_sr7034]

Rivals, the game with bad falco.

[@hystericallover5989]

Hayden Wagar Rivals, the game with 100% accurate falco.

[@jhozan]

@FlashFire1999 I was referring to Falco as they're both glass canon rushdown characters that are also blue-ish birds but jiggs works too i guess

[@theZodiacGriller]

Holy moly this was such a good video, You have such charisma and excellent timing , and you are so well spoken. I love that man, im subbing up.

[@polynices2461]

6:55 Adam is a centrist. Jreg will come for him when the time comes.

[@Kriscor01]

Wow centricide

[@KongMonkE]

We must terminate the centrists using anarcho-posadism

[@ycleptprof.5249]

I don't believe this will ever happen, but I would love for Nintendo to port older Smash games to the Switch. I still play 64 on my Wii, and I lost my copy of Brawl. I am more than willing to throw my money at them for Brawl and Melee without resorting to pirating, and I'm sure most people would do the same (maybe not so much for Brawl, but still.) At least now I can become the best Game and Watch in Melee.

[@topino1262]

I always think of that too. Also would be cool smash 4 too but probably not happening.

[@ScoobyShooby]

If daddy Nintendo didn't want us being pirates, they'd do something about it. Like a modern release of the game, for digital output, with sharper images and literally NOTHING else changed. ( And don't give us PAL, it will be rejected). You best believe that'd be a best seller overnight. The only reason they ignore the opportunity to make money on a re-release, is that they fear it would take sales away from upcoming smash titles. (And they're GODDAMN RIGHT it would)

[@AzureCrux]

If you own melee physically, it’s not illegal to obtain and play via slippi. If you still feel uneasy, it’s very easy to make your own Backup using a wii + home brew

[@forholding01]

damn filthy frank's gamer cousins pretty funny

[@enny7377]

Best video ever! You captured melee so perfectly

[@MB-hc9we]

I felt that melee setup montage

[@LtMelons]

I played melee before rivals and immediately fell in love with the extra accessibilty. Even so, slippi has brought me back to playing everyday with friends that I otherwise couldn't bear to play a single match with due to the connection.

[@pluto7373]

The reason melee strives is because of the practice you can do just with yourself to get better, there's a noticeable boost in skill for all the tech in the game that makes you want to keep going

[@GoldMaster_art]

Internet: I WANT WI-FI IN MELEE Me: I want tap jump toggle in Melee

[@robo-rex0239]

bruh just dont hit up all the way

[@plet0707]

@@robo-rex0239 Personally, as someone who didn't start with Melee, that would be fighting years worth of muscle memory. I'm not saying that tap jump is bad, I just prefer it off.

[@robo-rex0239]

@@plet0707 bro I play ultimate ar a high level with tamp jump off and tilt stick on. When playing melee u just got to suck it up and not hit up all the way.

[@MyAce8]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWrCo41uj7-Ybqs

[@Alexplain_Later]

Honestly if P+ had Rollback and matchmaking i would probably play it a lot more than melee. It was the first smash game I actually tried to get good at so it feels the best to me.

[@AdamCarra]

Don't tell anyone, but I would also play P+ more than Melee if it had slippi features

[@Alexplain_Later]

@@AdamCarra 🤐

[@SamWeltzin]

Kinda the same. I didn't really care about getting even slightly competitive until Project M. And even if I wanted to learn how to get good at Ultimate, I can't play it online because the Switch decided that my router's security was too good, so I can't even play it. So Rivals it is. I ain't going back to Melee 'cuz I don't find any of the characters to be all that fun to play.

[@hitechnic7805]

even with rollback I end up going back to P+ 99% of the time. The better netcode and matchmaking just aren’t worth everything else being so much worse in every way lol

[@RumpIeForeskln]

I tried it out a little bit when it came out and I've instantly ordered a mayflash adapter and I'm borrowing a gamecube controller from a friend. I cannot wait until it arrives.

[@BananaSmoothie-]

How this man not at 500K subs yet he deserves it

[@topherrobinson8674]

If Rivals can last 20 years I'll definitely be there. So... I'll see you in 20 years. :)

[@saigesmart4167]

8:13 I see the argument but I've always felt that removing L-canceling and having a little more buffer doesn't make the game easier, it just raises the average skill ceiling. Instead of learning how to press a button every time you land with an aerial you learn better micro spacing or edge guarding flowcharts. I want the challenge and focus of a fighting game to be centered on beating my opponent, not my own ability to learn the nuances of the game engine. Using rivals as an example, the base game is sick and easy to play with friends, anyone can learn to wave dash and stuff, its physically easier. But that doesn't make the game any easier at a competitive level, you just shift your focus to other things.

[@saigesmart4167]

@FlashFire1999 I didn't realize that was a tactic, thanks for informing me. That does add to the argument to keep it in, but overall I think I stand by the opinion that the game is better without L-canceling. Not saying we should remove it now, it's too late for that, but would have been better without it in the game in the first place. I am curious though, how hard is it to mess up your opponent's L-cancel and how hard is the counter play (ie recognizing they are doing it and how hard it is to then change your own timing)?

[@MyAce8]

as a doc kid I remember trying to get this all set up. It was a nightmare. GC controllers were much more expensive because they didn't start remaking them yet, I didn't know about gekko codes, so I unlocked all the characters by hand, I had to trek out an hour and a half to my nearest local, just to get double four stocked twice and go home. But hey I'm still here I guess

[@AzureCrux]

Hey so it’s important to clarify that if you own a copy of a game, it’s perfectly okay and legal to obtain and use backups on your PC. If you’re worried about malware, then you can use home brew on the wii to make a backup of a physical disc. If it was truly illegal, then dolphin (which slippi runs on) would have been shut down 5-6 years ago when it got good at emulating wii games on top of GameCube games

[@PorcoAka]

Love the vid, but pee yoshi? cmon man

[@RealGoggs]

consume the piss yoshi

[@Fireelf]

Four years later, and this is still a great time to give Melee a chance!

[@lifetake3103]

I think the weirdest thing I feel about when it comes to l canceling is that its just something you always do. You just wanna always do it. There are a couple things that change the timing and thus you need to be good at it, but its another input for your aerials to be the best they can be and that just feels weird to me. All that said though I realize this whole argument can fall prey to being a slippery slope. So its quite up in the air

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

I never liked L cancelling, either. It's not stopping me from playing the game--I've always found it rather easy to perform--but the problem is it's a tech that, like other techs, is difficult, but unlike other techs, can't be utilized in different ways to enhance your gameplay. It's not a tool, it's just an arbitrary performance barrier.

[@moosemeep3694]

Poophead Twenty-seven What’s an example of a good tech that can be used in different ways to enhance gameplay?

[@quorryraphael9980]

@@moosemeep3694 uhh wavedash?

[@lifetake3103]

Yea exactly this is what I'm getting at. It's tech but you do it because its the thing you have to do. Wavedashing as stated above gets used in may different ways and combined with different things to perform with both skill and decision making. L canceling is just skill.

[@ashtonbarnes3584]

@@moosemeep3694 shield dropping moon walking wavelanding char specif tec

[@JordanNexhip]

I can only get 4 stocked so many times before I lose my sanity

[@liljrkid302]

Normally l cancel jokes are played out but you made them very well through this video, 10/10 gave me a hearty chuckle

[@youtubecensorsspeech6672]

2:37 I thought it wasn't stealing if you own a hard copy of the iso.

[@AzureCrux]

Correct

[@Menoly]

@@AzureCrux incorrect, its still piracy, but it really doesn't matter

[@notheotheralex6213]

I think it's more copyright infringement than stealing. Because, like... you're not taking something from someone else, you're just making a copy... illegally.

[@Falariel455]

@@Menoly No you can legally rip one of your game if you want, the distribution of this copy is illegal

[@lightbrand_]

As a Melee player, i think it would be amazing if they let you customize your controls, i don’t think that will ever happen because even if they modded the game to add a "controls selection menu" or smth Nintendo probably wouldn’t allow it but I do think it would be great. Now I’ve gotten used to the controls, I wouldn’t change them even if I was able to, but I think adding options that let everyone play the way they want, while not altering the game itself can only be a good thing.

[@MyAce8]

idk i feel that if you could rebind your bumper that would be really OP

[@wilburcobb8990]

regarding the accessibility issue, I wouldnt care if the game gets easier. I wouldnt care if they gave it auto-L canceling and auto-perfect wavedash and all that. I WOULDNT care if not the semi-unfortunate truth is that the inputs for those things actually greatly impact the interplay in game. Because of hitlag and shieldstun, those few frames where the world freezes when someone gets hit, moreso when on shield, because of those, there's this whole internal meta-game of shielding and spotdodging to bait out missed L-cancels and punishes. Because spotdodging doesnt have these frozen frames, spotdodging is a tool to hard read an attack on shield and get a free punish this way. With some of the slower and mid-tier characters this is important to use because their other options arent as good. What I'm saying is getting rid of L-cancelling would make the roster balance in melee worse. gr8 vid btw

[@iMbenjee]

Ily thank you for making Melee content

[@flarmie]

Melee community's list of reasons for keeping the game less accessible to new players: Because it's in the game project + has *options* to auto cancel and add buffer they are *options* making the game more accessible to different players changes nothing if you make them *options*

[@delrioway6]

While I think a buffer system would make the game much easier to start playing, I think they would disproportionately effect certain characters more than others. A buffer system would affect how Fox and Falco are played to a much higher degree than any other character simply because of how much harder they are to use. Multishines would suddenly become something anyone could do with a little practice and shield pressure interactions especially shine aerial on shield would be completely different. Customizable controls mostly seem dubious when I consider pivoting in the meta game today. Even at a high level, there are only one or two people i've heard of who can perform a pivot up/down tilt. Customized controls would totally change the usability of those techniques further changing the game not at an accessibility level but from a metagame level.

[@iMbenjee]

I watch this everyday Adam

[@VergilSFD]

Respect your Elders -- thank you for the upload man.

[@jackmcveety2066]

But the Milestone System !Adam you’re forgetting that’s the competitive edge that rivals has

[@tidytraphouse2801]

So I just bought a GameCube melee and and controller will I need anything to play on a modern day tv?

[@MyAce8]

most TVs have a lot of lag. (here's some more info on the topic kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGelZadrm6h4mLM). Honestly the most newbie friendly way to play melee right now is through an emulator like the video suggests. Here's a video to help you get set up kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6vEqI1oo8ahq5I

[@WIImotionmasher]

I didnt realize it has integrated matchmaking I need to start playing Melee again (Ive always been awful, always came in last at my local lol)

[@clemwatts2599]

I think a good way to appease both sides would to make a mod for melee in the style of project M, where more characters are viable, and more beginner friendly. That way there is something to try if you like melee but just can’t get into it.

[@marcimarc203]

Adam. I love you dud. Best man. I'm a melee player myself but your content is just lit. Keep it up duuud

[@mxcascade]

Never forget that Melee is so specifically special that even Icons wasn't Melee or Smash enough to pull over Melee players

[@mariofox6643]

Melee as community and as a Game, I respect them and it. I played Melee, I owned all Smash games in fact. But I prefer Smash Ultimate since the characters have always been at the core for me and the gameplay is way better than Brawl and Smash 4 at least. While I won't get into Melee anytime soon, I do know the effect it has on the Smash community who care about the deep gameplay aspect for the competitive scene.

[@rickmoranisstan]

This is very reasonable. The only problem is that Ultimate has worse online than melee now.

[@Aidenkun64]

I tried Melee as a 4 and Ultimate player and I liked it. I didn't love it though as the lack of a buffer system really threw me off. That's just me speaking though, I'm glad so many people love the game.

[@MyAce8]

as someone coming from melee when ever I put down melee for a bit and play a lot of ult when I come back to melee I have tons of bad habits. I've stopped using a game cube controller for ult, and instead I've started using a pro controller, and it's helped me stop trying to buffer in melee

[@MelloGrunty]

another great video adam, got some good laughs out of me. thanks!

[@terpy663]

the buffer system in melee would have to be totally redone to allow for tilt stick and other control remapping. which means someone would have to reorder buffer priority for every character and every move in the game. even to simply add auto short hop aerial moves would require a fundamental change to how the game reads inputs.

[@AdamCarra]

almost as crazy as adding online functionality to a game that never had it in the first place hmmm

[@LeandroNany]

Melee is melee, and pichu

[@arfawks]

You are good at this youtube thing.

[@topino1262]

I think the reason why auto l cancel shouldn't be allowed is because it would make spacies extremely broken: fox drill, as an example, has 6 hits that can be sdi'd so there's no way you will be able to properly l cancel it and a combo off of it every time, but, with auto l canceling you will and you will always get your combo.

[@wrath5420]

Thanks you for this video man, the community really need something positive between all this mess, bless you 🙏

[@LinktheDragonslayer]

It being hard isnt just about it being hard... when you do something dope in melee, you did everything you had to do to make it happen, and it was dope. The difficulty legitimizes your effort

[@thesilverw0lf]

For the behaviour robot :)

[@happycamperds9917]

I am new to Melee. I joined when Slippi began, and it is a difficult game. I would think that L-Cancels and buffer should be kept as is. I do believe more controller options should be available.

[@MyAce8]

idk I feel like it would drastically effect the meta. Being able to rebind would make things like multi shining wayy easier and fox/falco shine pressure completely free.

[@TheClutchMexican]

Plus they already changed one main thing which was controller variance thanks to ucf you don't have to spend hundreds on a good controller this was a big change fixing things like dashback issues not necessarily needing notches for shield drops etc

[@shmulinadel9527]

just thought i would mention this, if you own a copy of melee, but download an iso off the internet, it is completely legal, and is not considered pirating/stealing

[@AnAwesomeDudette]

What music was used in this?

[@ArtlexP]

I tried to set up the replays and intergraded netplay but somehow I keep messing up.

[@Clarkbardoone]

I’m just excited to see mods for the game that either change existing characters and adding new one to the game. Obviously you can’t just change melee and add balance updates and things like that, but project M was very well liked and having a whole new game on melees engine would be exiting.

[@QTpitarianne]

Cries in South East Asia

[@Pslamist]

No, dude. You'll have plenty of people to play, and you can have great connections with people 100s of miles (or kilometers) away. Give it a try!

[@Kaemble]

with rollback you could probably play with people in japan and australia so its probably not as bad as you think

[@sabhjitsandhu5670]

When is the Milestone system sequel coming out

[@sauzeefy]

I want SD remix to be the new melee that everyone plays. My foavorite character in the game is kirby, and i just want to play as him without people quitting out b/c they think im trying to insult them.

[@jakezepeda1267]

Yeah. I wish some sort of balance mod could be agreed upon. Dont know much about SD Remix but have heard it does a good job of tweaking without overdoing anything.

[@MyAce8]

Isn't this the point of projcet+

[@Eanakba]

Ace shinigami Project+ is a brawl mod, and it overdoes it with the rebalancing. Too many gimmicks with a roster as big as it is. RoA players would like it though, I'd recommend it over melee.

[@sauzeefy]

@@MyAce8 nah, P+ is just a completely different game. I you ask me, it adds significantly more to the smash experience than it takes away though, and is 100% my personal preference. unfortunately, there's no rollback, and smashladder is not always active. So im stuck with shitass melee.

[@intranube]

melee is amazing, it's great as it is, it probably won't change anytime soon for weird reasons but if people are really debating if lowering the skill floor of a game while maintaining and/or rising the skill ceiling is good or not then you have me at a loss. The fact that UCF exists is proof of this: when shield dropping became easier, melee evolved in a good way. new and cool strategies had to be developed to adapt to it, amazing combo game ensued. Input Buffer and auto L cancel improve the gameplay experience far more than it damages it (if it does at all), also, who wouldn't want to play competitively without the risk of getting hand issues? Hax$ and Mew2king, these guys played with painful hands for years, they surely would. This "controversy" is non existant in my eyes but i understand that it's the same kind of debate as the one dealing with wobbling and ledge grab limits. TL;DR: Melee is great but it's hard to play and doesn't need to be. It's still amazing if you have the patience to learn it.

[@Allplussomeminus]

Imma be in there like Borp.

[@herbmaaster]

people who destroy melee discs deserve the gold experience requiem muda

[@lampsonmcstand6150]

Something about slippi that i do not like is that it doesn't use ucf, and i find dashback being a constant problem whenever i play melee, and although i think auto l cancel or added buffer should not be a thing the removing of dashback should be

[@AdamCarra]

could have sworn it does have ucf built in, either that or I've gotten a lot better at shield dropping then I remember

[@MyAce8]

it does have UCF. That being said even with UCF if you are not moving you stick back fast enough you will still get a turnaround animation

[@cg5380]

The techniques of Melee should be kept and execution should be the same but control sets would make it easier to get into but not to compete at a high level and might help people not murder their hands

[@SivillyHoshi]

it's basically, well have you heard of JESUS?!

[@laserdisk16]

as a part of the melee community, i dont even know how we'd change it, if we make it easier it would just make it PM so im on the side of preservation.

[@AdamCarra]

The things I would want that wouldn't be too crazy imo would be a no tap jump option, frozen Pokemon (forever not just right now in slippi) and no whispy on dreamland

[@sligordaoust573]

@@AdamCarra when you say frozen pokemon, do you mean no transition on pokemon stadium.

[@AdamCarra]

Yes

[@michaelhenriksen7359]

@FlashFire1999 I know most players hate the windmill, but in tournaments, with a lot of tension and both on last stock, wether it's combo extensions, mixups or recoveries, the windmill is so exciting in a viewer perspective.

[@shiangshujames433]

Youre so funny dude. Love this, in stitches. Johnny Ultimate XD

[@ashemabahumat4173]

The only thing I want changed in melee... new characters, lol. May or may not be possible, but backporting characters would be dope as hell

[@kokubo399]

You gotta zingdong your dingdong LMFAO

[@callie_yt]

I hate tap jump. Can I disable it in Slippi?

[@DibzNr2234]

We live in the time line where Melee online has less latency than Ultimate offline Think about that, a 20 year old game that was never intended to have online play has less input delay then a modern instalment of the same series without online And when you factor in Ultimate's online too things go from bad to awful

[@mannylight4280]

"Melee is harder." Smash players trying to recover in Rivals: Am I a joke to you? Rivals players: Yes

[@mr1m020]

Is it really difficult for them?

[@rumfordc]

nothing in rivals is difficult

[@MyAce8]

imo if you don't like l cancelling play PM. I think L Cancel is a bad design decision even when you consider the situation where it adds depth (using power sheild to mix up L Cancel timings, and then punishing). That being said it's part of the game, and if you don't like it there are a ton of other platform fighters to choose from. Part of what's fun about melee is it doesn't change. There aren't bug fixes, there aren't balance changes. You put down the game, and come back a few years later, and it's the same game.

[@dominoh1732]

The thing that excites me about slippi is that one day itll be added to ultimate, im sure people will still play it for years n years because we’re never getting all these characters together again

[@Snowballsage]

Can you play melee with other controllers?

[@AdamCarra]

yes, on emulator

[@termineitor828]

1 change, just add Jhon Wavedahs

[@e50013]

Great vid, you earned a sub from me also your yoshi is kinda nasty

[@Menoly]

I played a small bit of P+, but i think I may give melee a chance.

[@NoCorrelation.26]

5:45 No Melee should not be more accessible, if you wanted accessiblety then go to ultimate.

[@FabschOblivion669]

Or Rivals of Aether if you want Accessible Melee.

[@Kapedanii]

Or P+

[@GTXDash]

For once I think setting up an emulator to play melee online is actually harder than just doing it the old way. Admittedly I have it easy because I still have my GameCube with a copy of the game, and my friends and family play it. Also, some LCD TVs support AV composite.....even though I still have my CRT from many years ago, but it's still an option.

[@patternsincereal8289]

Love the intro

[@Goldenleyend]

This reminds of my dad, our internet provider has a video streaming app that's pretty much the worst steaming app ever. My dad will watch Lost, which he has already seen completely and hates it, on that shitty app. I think it's in our nature to come back to entertainment that tortures us for whatever reason.

[@MultiMadgeek]

Melee is sick.