Recycle Copper chloride PCB etchant (waste free method)

[@NurdRage]

I'm always first, get over it.

[@kg4boj]

You mean 0rd of course?

[@CousinWuKaLok]

NurdRage deal with it.

[@kranganekar]

Will you ever make a video about synthesis of urea hydrogen peroxide ... By using 6% h2o2 to make urea h2o2... And later getting a more concentrated solution ?

[@NurdRage]

kshitij Ranganekar Interesting idea, what would you use urea peroxide for that regular hydrogen peroxide couldn't be used for?

[@kranganekar]

NurdRage for storing h2o2 in its more stable form (low decomposition rate)... Which can be easily accessible in high concentrations when needed

[@cifer5262]

I don't know when I'll ever use this knowledge, but man is it fun to watch.

[@MartKencuda]

And this is why I chose Mechanical over Chemical. I could never wrap my head around a lot of this; it may as well just be black magic to me. But I still enjoy your videos regardless. I may not understand everything you're doing, but I can appreciate all the same.

[@dumle29]

Rabid Rabbit Rabbi If I learned something in chemistry, it's that if I had listened and done my homework, it's actaully very logical, and follows some rules. One just has to spend the time to understand those rules. Now that's not my interest, my interest is electronics, but I see the parallel. I think you aren't interested in what you are good at. You get good at what you find interesting.

[@WhileTrueCode]

dumle29 Words of wisdom right here! Well put :D

[@MartKencuda]

dumle29 Yeah, it really does boil down to having an interest, no pun intended.

[@NurdRage]

I tried releasing the tubestart campaign today but it seems they need to review it before it gets published. I'll keep you guys updated on its progress.

[@slpk]

NurdRage Tubestart? What's that?

[@Nichoalsziv]

***** here - lmgtfy.com/?q=tubestart

[@slpk]

Stragemque Haha. That's what I tought.

[@robertbradbury6962]

Just give us your PayPal email address and I'll send you a couple of bucks.

[@slpk]

NurdRage I'd advise you to create a better introduction to the project. Better describe and explain it. Frankly, the IndieGoGo one was pretty lame.

[@Cruiser052]

I'm always happy when I see a new NurdRage video in my sub list.

[@TheShirtie]

I'm a Chef and have no real idea what is going on in your videos, but i enjoy them none the less... But i'm learning something by watching them.

[@brianempson]

It would be cool if there were a channel that could turn these chemical experiments into chemical process design videos on a small scale. Would be neat to see these steps scaled up in a process plant design. I like how nothing is wasted!

[@zachreyhelmberger894]

And if you use solar panels for the electricity, you get even less waste!

[@chuck7790]

I barely understand what you're saying, but I can watch you do chemistry for hours

[@Nikolaii2571]

I am happy to see that your videos are back on KZbin. We missed you while you were away. I believe that your presentation may spark an interest in chemistry with some people. And who knows? Maybe one of them will go on to become a chemical engineer thanks to you. Keep it up please. On with the Great Work... - -- - Nikolai

[@Slappyhorse]

so glad that you decided to keep making videos. you were the only youtuber (at the time) that i followed every new video.

[@NurdRage]

Anthony Vecchione Thanks for staying with me :)

[@Slappyhorse]

=D

[@evilplaguedoctor5158]

YES! Thank you, this is the video I've been looking for for a while. thank you!

[@WhileTrueCode]

I think these recycling videos are my favorite- also really enjoyed the gold recovery

[@idjles]

I'd like to see him not waste any water during distillation and use solar energy for heating, stirring and electrolysis.. Here he just recycled chemicals by using more water and electricity.

[@NurdRage]

Idjles Erle And I'd like a supermodel girlfriend. We don't always get what we want. :P

[@brandoncowan9029]

NurdRage But sometimes, you just happen to get what you need.

[@brandoncowan9029]

Idjles Erle Hey, spoilers, ALL recycling of things, cans, bottles, and whatever, uses energy to make it happen. Nothing is 100% efficient yet.

[@vadzimdambrouski5211]

I did not know that the copper does not react with sulfuric acid. learning something new with every video, thanks!

[@Dh4v0c]

Best chemistry vids on KZbin. Keep up the good work!

[@Luciferas1]

I was looking for this! I saw this video when was released and finally I need this solution ! Thanks NurdRage i really admire your work

[@ChristieNel]

Very educational. I had so much fun copper plating as a kid. Even did an oral about it.

[@s.sradon9782]

thanks for the discount and your video means that I can recover copper from pcb's now

[@KarenDian1]

I just recently subscribed, and I must admit...I love your videos!

[@BloodxPledge]

It's so great to see you posting again, Nurdrage! How are things going?

[@jjenson2006]

2:39 If you have battery acid, you can use 6ml of water and 3ml of battery acid for every gram of copper chloride.

[@SlightlyMiscalculated]

Extremely informative video! I definitely feel like I could do this now if I ever ran into a situation where I had a surplus of leftover etchant that I wanted to recycle. :D

[@morlanius]

NurdRage Congrats on the nice new kit and glad to se you doing videos again. :)

[@foobar1794]

Have you considered making a video of similar recycling process of cupric chloride solution, which has been used to etch various ewaste components (pins, fingers, etc) to extract gold? While this solution will consist of primarily Cu(I)/Cu(II) chlorides, there will be lots of other metal chlorides (ZnCl2,NiCl2,SnCl2,SnCl4,FeCl2,FeCl3,BeCl2,PbCl2), which complicate the recycling process.

[@bbbruh8809]

Seconded

[@three_sigma]

@@bbbruh8809 Thirded

[@JamesAJ]

Wow, that's some genius process!

[@NurdRage]

***** Thanks! Although i'm sure most chemistry students can probably devise the same solution too. :)

[@pwnely]

I have no idea what I Just watched but it was so interesting keep on making video's!!!

[@ARVash]

I loved using cupric chloride for making circuit boards.

[@lipman19]

this video blew my mind! you are ridiculously smart good video!

[@NurdRage]

lipman19 Why thank you! but i'm sure a good chemistry student can come up with the same process :)

[@mduvigneaud]

I just re-watched this. Awesome and very informative! I'm about to start etching my own PCBs and I want to have this option available. :D

[@HarshHemaniHH]

+1 for explaining why not to do electrolysis of copper (I & II) chloride.

[@blzahz7633]

Wow. That's all I can say, just wow.

[@stephenjacks8196]

At our PCB shop we used [Cu(NH3)4] Cl2 which could absorb lage amounts of Copper,. Crystals of CuCl2 would fall out on cooling then filtered and sent to recycler. Our waste treatment dept went to NaBH4 to precip metals.

[@philpem]

That's really cool. I've gone down the route of "disposing" of spent etchant by reacting with sodium carbonate to precipitate copper carbonate, then filtering, drying and heating that to a few hundred degrees to produce copper oxide which can then be mixed with HCl to restart future etchant baths. That's nowhere near as clean as this process! Though my first step should be to fix the foaming problem with my CuCl etch bath, which worsens when the HCl concentration is increased (to speed etching). I suspect it's been contaminated with something, possibly from the cement cleaner I originally used as a HCl source.

[@NurdRage]

philpem Hmm... try distilling the HCl, hopefully whatever detergent they added doesn't distill as well.

[@philpem]

NurdRage Indeed - I'd hope that if it did distill -- assuming for a minute I followed the process in the video -- it'd go with the water and not the HCl, thus leaving it in the first, discarded bath, which isn't a problem. I actually have access to pure HCl, so starting over with fresh chemistry may be a better option, though I may look into the process in the video to get the copper out of the detergent-contaminated solution. It would at least fix the problem of "now what do I do with this mess?". An alternate line of thinking I've pursued is going down the copper-carbonate route, heating to produce to copper oxide, rinsing with water to remove any trace of residual detergent, then adding HCl which should produce CuCl again. Though perhaps that's far more effort than it's worth! In any case, I certainly need to get a proper hotplate-stirrer and some lab glassware! There are some things you just can't do with repurposed kitchenware! :)

[@NurdRage]

philpem Actually it might be even more straightforward: Precipitate the copper carbonate from your dirty copper chloride and filter it. While it's on the filter paper wash it with water several times to get the detergent out. Discard the filtrate and clean the container. Now put the filter with the copper carbonate back on it and pour on top small amounts of the clean HCl. It will react producing carbon dioxide and copper chloride solution that will filter through. Keep doing this until there is no more reaction. What's left behind on the filter paper is insoluble residues, and the filtrate is now copper chloride solution with a bit of extra HCl. (which is what you want for etching). No need to bother with heating to produce copper oxide.

[@MSteamCSM]

Hell yeah! Thank you for a new video!

[@KiloFeenix]

I know I'm late on this video, great video btw, I have so much of this stuff... and none of that equipment.

[@Themuffinman488]

I feel smart watching these videos :)

[@RaExpIn]

Hey guys, I'm a chemistry student and I have started a new chemistry channel, because I really enjoy showing and explaining easy and advanced syntheses or experiments.

[@billy91011]

Another great video. I was wondering if you know how to make Aerogel (and if so could you do a video or with it. It has some cool science to it)

[@thebestofall007]

This would be a nice process to find a way to automate.

[@kristianprokupek6606]

Very nice. Is possible to use this method to separate NiCl2 with CuCl2 in solution ?

[@RoroTheDeer]

This. Was. Awesome.

[@Effay513]

Great work! Thanks!

[@ZoruaZorroark]

still fun to see the science used in chemistry

[@TeslaFactory]

And with EDTA, NaOH, and Formaldehyde, you could use the cuso4 to electroless deposit copper metal onto resin boards and remake new PCBs!

[@skonkfactory]

I'd love to see a version of this where you recover silver metal from spent photographic bleach/fix solution.

[@kristianprokupek6606]

Nice video. Can I use this method also for dirty solution of CuCl2 ? Platinum electrode is very expensive, is there some alternative metal?

[@astbrnrd]

Danggit Rage! Your videos make me wish I switched majors! It would have helped a great deal if the instructor made his lessons 1/8 as interesting at least ;-) U have an awesome lab btw. Let know when tubestart is running.

[@Bob_V]

This is super cool but where the hell am I to get that Platinum lead from ? Anyway, if you have a copper sulfate solution like he has just wipe on on lead and it will leave a copper plate on the lead surface, Very Cool !!!!

[@butth0le_inspector]

Please NurdRage, make a video about lead dioxide anodes e how to coat a graphite substrate with it. Thanks

[@IntermountainGoldRefiners]

I've watched this before and I watched it twice today. Also I expect I'll be back to watch it again. (facepalm) I'm learning about copper chloride so I can think of ways to remove it from some of my solutions. In other words, thanks!

[@Scrogan]

I wonder if copper(II) sulfate would still make a good etchant? Would cut down on one step. A graphite electrode would also be nice to be able to use. Also I wonder if you could use iodine or bromine in solution as an etchant, use it to oxidise the copper on a PCB, then electrolyse the iodine/bromine back into its aqueous form (copper + inert electrodes) while pulling the copper out onto a wire? Would be a single step reversal, save any pH adjustments due to dissolving atmospheric oxygen. Might also need to add some chemicals at the start for improving initial solubility, with sulfuric acid or sodium hydroxide, I guess.

[@awesomecronk7183]

I have used graphite (from a pencil) as an anode before. It deteriorated VERY fast and left me with a pile of black carbon power in the bottom of the jar. Definitely still gets consumed, but at least it doesn't contaminate the solution with metal when it does!

[@cristianvalladares2973]

Has always great vids 👌🏻

[@kristianprokupek6606]

Nice. What temperature you used for distillation heater?

[@crystalsoulslayer]

Chemistry is terrifying, but... pretty colors. :D

[@NexusDNA]

Thanks for being an inspiration NurdRage :) What book do you recommend on dye-sensitized solar cells?

[@zachreyhelmberger894]

I LOVE IT!! Thank you!!

[@glenwoofit]

Interesting video.

[@ferandres2]

Hello I need your help it's possible to make copper nitrate from copper sulfate with nitric acid?

[@EE_fun]

I did the electrolysis by myself to regain copper metal. It just looked like in your video: The copper fell off the electrode and broke into many particles. How can you avoid that? I want the copper to stick to the electrode. Like in electroplating.. exactly this method is used, right? Why does it work out there?

[@benyanman]

Will the concentration effect of preferentially discharging chloride ions be eliminated if the copper (II) chloride solution is diluted to a rather low concentration?

[@Nyxthewarlock1]

thank you I was going to make aluminum acetate and hcl

[@Araxatu]

Is it possible to recycling the iron chloride along with the copper chloride and separate it? because in electronics i use this for the PCB.

[@JonathanFosdickNano]

Nice! Keep up with the superb videos :)

[@shivambhatt2724]

NurdRage Your videos are absolutely awesome (watching them for years now) You can totally make any video you like, but just as a suggestion, please try something other than etching related stuff I miss the old NurdRage :)

[@kcebolpj]

If you increased the surface area of your platinum coated titanium anode, you could have run a higher current density, thus reduced plate out time, downside is the anode cost, but probably worth the investment. I've toured 2 board houses, National Tech and ECT, not certain what their processes are, except I do know its all in house and waste free, so could be similar if not identical.

[@pirobot668beta]

Dumb, dumb question: Wouldn't the use of a copper anode result in a traditional 'plating bath'? Sure, you would be cycling copper from the anode to the cathode, but wouldn't that also deplete the copper sulfate? I have read that plating bath chemistry is not steady; running a bath does indeed deplete copper salts despite anode erosion.

[@MCircuits]

That is why I failed on my CHEMISTRY subject during my school days. I can't even understand a damn thing. All i know is how to use that damn acid on etching my pcb's. Great video though, fun to watch.

[@0Arcoverde]

Question, could I use sulfuric acid or some other acid that is easier to recover the copper from?

[@EE_fun]

You are saying that you could not electrolyze the etchant because you would produce chlorine gas. One question: I was always wondering, if you could just do that, collect the chlorine gas and bubble it back through the solution to oxidize the copper(I) back to copper(II). Of course just extract so much copper until you do not have any copper (I) left, then stop and start etching again. Would that technically be possible ?

[@Kethlar]

Heh... Now all you have to do is teach us how to use that copper to clad boards for PCBs LOL! Then YOU Would have come full circle!

[@KaWouter_]

Holy crap. I have to go over my chemistry notes again. This is amazing stuff. Learned already a lot.

[@matta8508]

Hey there, would a graphite or manganese dioxide coated graphite electrode work? I think it might withstand the electrolysis and even if it flakes off during the process, it would be an interesting alternative to platinum since its much cheaper and easy to get.

[@milesmccoo]

as I Google for HCl boiling point, I see numbers around 100C. in your video there's a fairly clear transition from first just getting water and then getting HCl (at what concentration?) can you speak to why this happens that way without needing to fractionally distill? thanks for the videos!

[@ideasytnow]

When I dissolve (using electrolysis) gold plated computer pins I end up with a solution containing copper sulfate and nickel sulfate. I have no problem plating out the copper, but what happens to the nickel sulfate that is in the solution? Does it plate out with the copper, or is it left behind in the solution?

[@TheChemistryShack]

Wouldn't it be easier just to precipitate the Cu from the CuCl2 with aluminum?

[@NurdRage]

TheChemistryShack that creates aluminum chloride waste. you also lose the hydrochloric acid. The objective of this video was to fully recover the acid and the copper without producing any waste. I'll show disposal/wasteful methods later.

[@TheChemistryShack]

NurdRage Oh--I misunderstood what you meant by "waste free"--I thought you were just referring to hazardous copper waste as opposed to all wastes

[@alidan]

heres something i'm curious about. what is the power cost for this entire process? not necessarily the monetary cost, but the kwatt cost.

[@rogert151]

what if you don't want to recover it but dispose of it safely, what is the best way to neutralize it and throw it out, about half a gallon ?

[@awesomecronk7183]

I wonder, if you contained the resulting H2 and Cl2 gasses and allowed them to recombine into HCl as they were produced, could you not simply electrolyze the HCL/CuCl/CuCl2 solution to reduce it straight to HCl?

[@MrGoatflakes]

That's really fantastic :D

[@helimonster3]

This might be a silly question, but why does the copper not react with the H2SO4 in the beaker containing the final products?

[@feby87]

what kind of pcb was that etching solution from? pcb with the components or without any?

[@IsettasRock]

I'm mainly interested in the recovery of HCl from spent solutions. Could this process be adapted to also work with solutions of tin chloride and iron chloride?

[@nickhill9445]

First etch using a solution of copper sulphate and sulphuric acid. PCB for etching as anode, copper electrode as cathode. This is a fast and waste-free one-step method. When copper starts vanishing, switch to an electro-less method eg Copper Sulphate and HCL so that current densities don't concentrate near tracks thereby thinning them. This way, 90+% of the copper is immediately recovered and no chemicals are consumed in the firs step. You may use this process to plate-up another PCB as your cathode which you may use later for high current applications.

[@NurdRage]

Go for it.

[@theevilhuman1]

can we use nitric acid instead of sulphuric acid? since Copper II nitrate also can be electrolysis

[@banteringboomer4280]

the true magic!

[@recer_]

Sir, where would you recommend shopping for the tools and containers you most often use in these videos? I'm a newb on a budget... Thanks!

[@spicymolybdenum3980]

would adding hcl to copper nitrate produce copper chloride and nitric acid?

[@000bHd000]

Is it possible to recover pure copper sulfate using a process like this?

[@edgeeffect]

I've got a problem with my first distilation... my hot plate will only take the solution to ~125 degrees and it's still not boiling... I've put this down to the concentration of copper chloride in the solution but it still seems to be a very high temperature to still not give me much boiling????

[@somefool6409]

Instead of bubbling the solution, couldn't you simply add hydrogen peroxide to oxidise it? Or would that not work?

[@thebestofall007]

You need to update the ferric chloride etchant annotation. It still says "still working on this one, will be available in a couple of weeks" when the video is there. Just a reminder...

[@g00gdobb3ers7]

NurdRage just curious what specific field of chemistry do you work in?

[@aymnfarea9875]

Whate is the methode can i use for copper sulfides?! .

Since the procedure requires two distillation steps, as well as dealing with copper(I) chloride (all steps which require time and energy), wouldn't it be more economical to simply waste the hydrochloric acid and recycle only the copper, since that is the expensive part of the etching solution?

[@unlockeduk]

a lead anode also works i use this electrolysis to make sulphuric acid from copper sulphate

[@zanpekosak2383]

Would 33% H2SO4 work? Of course three times as much.

[@denniskurniadi5416]

is there any chance that after the electrolysis end, the copper will react with the sulfuric acid solution?

[@ThePeterDislikeShow]

What about the chemical waste produced at the power plant where you got your electricity? You still generated waste.

[@chemicalmaster3267]

+Nurdrage What If you had a solution of sulfuric acid below 98% concentration, how would you calculate the stoichiometric amount of militers of sulfuric acid needed to convert all the copper(II) chloride into copper sulfate? Also have done the stoichiometry with anhydrous copper(II) chloride or with copper(II) chloride dihydrate?

[@chemicalmaster3267]

***** I know, but thanks! Some chemists don´t use the water of crystallization of some compounds in their stoichiometry calculations, but the water of crystallization also plays an important role when it comes to stoichiometry. For example 1 mole of anhydrous copper(II) chloride is not the same thing as 1 mole of copper(II) chloride dihydrate (which is the form that copper(II) chloride that usually crystallizes from solution).

[@casaverdero]

show us how to recycle persulfate echant waste since I have a ton of it.

[@NurdRage]

casaverdero i will eventually, next i'm going to show how to recycle ferric chloride waste. then afterward i might do the persulfate types.

[@Landogarner83]

casaverdero I don't know what Nurdrage has in mind but I simply fill it into a plastic bottle with some copper scraps till its completely depleted. That takes some time but I don't mind having that bottle standing in a corner somewhere for some weeks. The resulting liquid gets filtered and boiled down and then you can just let the salts crystallize. With the etchant I use this yields sodium sulfate and copper sulfate. those two are easy to separate as sodium sulfate dries out much faster (within a few days when left open) and the crystals just crumble to a white dust leaving only the copper sulfate cristals solid.

[@Nikolaii2571]

NurdRage I would love to see you do the persulfate types. It should prove interesting.

[@alcid34]

Are you going to do the iodine clock reaction someday?

[@s.sradon9782]

may i use a lead anode insread of platinum