How this bizarre pericyclic transmission works?

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Pericyclic or nutational gears/transmissions typically consist of 4 bevel gears and thanks to their nutational motion, they provide extremely high gear ratios while also ensuring a high tooth contact ratio. This allows them to transfer high torques smoothly, making them competitive compared to other traditional gears. In this video, I discussed 3D printed pericyclic/nutational gears, their designs, working principles, and issues.
STL files: www.thingivers...

[@Irontygre]

I've seen high torque gearboxes before, and now I've seen a high twerk gearbox.

[@blackflagqwerty]

Work it baby, work, work, work.

[@teplonosia420]

that was my nickname in highschool

[@QuasiCosmiX]

That joke really *grinds* my *gears*…

[@jesusvera7941]

out

[@MatrixRay19]

The issue you noticed on the end is related to a tiny flaw on the design, you should use tapered roller bearings on the ends! There is force being applied axially as well as radially, thus it requires tapered roller bearings instead of just standard radial ball bearings.

[@yasirrakhurrafat1142]

Might as well make the gear teeth like the cycloidal gears as well.

[@jasonwhite2028]

Didnt know tapered roller bearings were for multi directional loads, explains why you see them in automotive drivetrain applications. Good to know thanks for the info

[@dennis-nz5im]

Slab bearings. Barrel shaped like old right axles on Mercedes swing axle

[@I.no.ah.guy57]

​@@jasonwhite2028 yes but they have a large nut or snap ring to hold it in place, so it's not the bearing on its own, and it's only in certain cars, possibly just trucks, I believe. The hubs of most cars are just a large straight bearing that gets pressed into the knuckle. While trucks and anything larger has tapered bearings that are made to come apart so you can pack grease into it and then pop it back together and fasten it down

[@firstmkb]

I hear mention of tapered roller bearings mentioned around machinist lathes. Depending on what angle you’re cutting the load could be axial, radial or a mix of both.

[@mspeir]

I don't know if it's useful, but it is hardly unnecessary. It may lead to a more advanced design. Try it with beveled helical gears and increase the gear contact by increasing the length of the gear teeth. You have a rather large gap between the teeth and shaft. More contact may increase stability.

[@jamesjonnes]

Recreate this with magnets. No friction.

[@ParaBellum2024]

I don't quite understand what you mean. Can you make a model in your workshop to illustrate the principle, and then upload a video showing how it works?

[@mspeir]

@@ParaBellum2024 That's a weird way to troll. 🤔🤨

[@user-gi7vi9gm4t]

@@mspeir i just looked at your channel bc i was interested if you had a workshop due to parabellums comment , you earned a new sub.

[@mspeir]

@@user-gi7vi9gm4t I haven't posted in years, but thank you.

[@misuyikillu]

i think this was genuinly one of the least annoying sponsor presentation ive seen,nice job bro

[@wedmunds]

Looks like a neat variant of the harmonic drive that doesn't involve deformation

[@aterxter3437]

If you want it to operate smoothly, three things are to take into account : 1) the distance of each nutation gear to the nutation point depends on several factors such as tha nutation ratio and the difference in tooth count in each gear mesh, if not followed, the gears don't mesh perfectly 2) 3d printed gears need to be work smoothed by runing them with an abrasive to eliminate surface artifacts 3) greasing the gears is key in smooth and qiet operation. Back to the first point, all herringbone gears have an average contact point wich describes a circle, the center of the fear being the center of this circle. With a nutation angle α, and an offset of a nutation gear from the nutation point (where the oblique and straigt axes cross) δ, and a meshing gear of radius r1 the nutation gear average radius needs to be r1/cos(α) + δ*tan(α), if you trace the simple meshing on a piece of paper to find the proper dimensions, you will find this formula with simple trigonometry. On a side note, having the same nutation gears and meshing gears will simplify the design as the nutation gears will bea simetrical to the nutation point

[@DaveEtchells]

So it’s possible to avoid the pulsing entirely if you design the gears to meet the constraints you described? I wonder if it would be zero-backlash like harmonic drives?

[@Roobotics]

Very interesting and bizarre stuff, I think the biggest shortcoming it has, is that the output is basically getting 'twitched' between gear meshes as a means of moving. So your output side isn't able to deliver a consistent level of torque in a direction. Also I think this means that despite the 40:1 ratio or so, the mechanical advantage is actually lower, each time it steps back it is undoing the mechanical advantage, then the forward stroke has to put it back that much further, so that's a sort of continuous movement ineffeciency. So it's mechanical advantage factor would be measured in the forward-wobble and advancement region only, if that makes sense. Basically it will act like a 40:1, but the input torque used to move it, will take the effort of something more like a 30:1.

[@MatrixRay19]

It's very much like on a worm gear reduction, friction takes away quite a bit of the performance.

[@TheTechnopider]

This was my initial impression but actually I don't think this is a fundamental problem of the mechanism, but the tolerances/manufacturing of the part. Like, its not like contact is made to force the gear once per per rotation, the contact is made cyclically around every contacting gear tooth in rapid succession. I think that there are also ways to optimize the tooth design. Before involute gear tooth, the same (or similar) criticism could be made for simple gears!

[@TheTechnopider]

​@@MatrixRay19I am unsure of this. I think at first glance you'd assume something similar of cycloidal gearboxes

[@jasonwhite2028]

I was thinking the same thing with the engage and disengage being horribly indirect compared to planetary or worm etc, but it also looks like it could be constantly engaged with just a portion of the gear as it wobbles rotating the contact position? Not sure but the vibration alone makes this seem pretty unviable, still cool to learn about

[@f.d.6667]

Maybe. But the real show-stopper is friction. Properly designed gear trains have friction only in the bearings but never on the teeth (rolling motion via evolute geometry). Here, there teeth are sliding into position. Big no-no in engineering and the reason why worm gears wear out so quickly.

[@KeithOlson]

6:12 FWIW, the teeth on *BOTH* sides of the center gear are engaged, so the total force is _really_ spread out.

[@christiangray7826]

I would love to see a really high load on this gearbox. Maybe test its limits with what 3D printing material and precision you have, until a gearbox of a certain size fails. I bet if you optimize it as much as you can, it may be capable of producing much more torque for its size and mass than other more commonly used gearboxes.

[@renedekker9806]

It is not suited for high load. With a 45 degree tooth angle, the output force is equal to the bending force on the inner gear.

[@christiangray7826]

@@renedekker9806 because of the amount of surface area in contact between the gears, the load distribution on them is completely different than other gearboxes. That means that the gears can handle many times the force before failure. This thing is only made of plastic, imagine one made of metal. Optimizing this box would be a really fun project for me, if I had the means to do it

[@renedekker9806]

@@christiangray7826 _"because of the amount of surface area in contact between the gears"_ - the real contact is still only 1 or 2 gear teeth, the force concentrates on those teeth. Because the gear teeth have an angle, that force also tries the gear teeth to disengage. In a normal gear box, that force is towards the centre of the gear, which is easily withstood by the gear. In this gearbox, that force is perpendicular to the gear itself, causing the gear and its axle to bend. I would not put large loads on it.

[@christiangray7826]

@@renedekker9806 We disagree on its function, but doesn’t that make it even more interesting to see it tested to failure? Whether it performs well or not, it would be very fun to learn more about. Maybe it has no potential. Maybe it has plenty. Only one way to find out, and that’s optimizing it

[@marco_gallone]

It’s easy to see that for a continuous input you have a pulsing outout. Even In the double gearbox configuration. You can improve the smoothness of the output by offsetting the mirrored gearbox by 90 degree rotation.

[@ParaBellum2024]

I'm struggling to understand what you mean. Can you make this design in your workshop, and then upload a video showing how it works?

[@marco_gallone]

I am not sure how to explain it, referencing 8:32 But if you install the right side transmission to be 90 deg out of phase with the left side, that will it switch which side does the pushing. Essentially you can smoothen the output motion by making it so that the push (instead of being in sync) happens twice per rotation instead, right left right left…

[@user-gi7vi9gm4t]

@@ParaBellum2024 bot

[@ParaBellum2024]

@@user-gi7vi9gm4t Wot?

[@htheorylab]

@@marco_gallone I'm not sure if you are referring to the smoothness of the axial movements. But if you picture the circular motion, your suggested offset of 90 degrees or pi/2 is equivalent to the sum of a sine and a cosine, which results in a larger amplitude, which means more axial vibration in both directions. Mathematically, as you know, only a phase shift of 180 degrees or pi will cancel. Here are two examples in Desmos: 'qfcs5camdc' (180 degrees) and 'kkvv0zanus' (90 degrees).

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

I’m very impressed by the finish on that clear cover! I used to work with acrylics and polycarbonate many years ago. That looks as good as an injection moulding. The gearbox is an impressive force multiplier! 👍🏻

[@Chris-bg8mk]

Similar to a strain wave gearbox, it should have extremely low backlash due to the large number of teeth engaged.

[@splynncryth]

Yes, but this design is much more 3D printer friendly. James Bruton did some experiments with a printable hamonic/strain wave drive but ultimately settled on cycloidal drives for his projects because of issues he had. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6ClmIaNoK-sg5Y Maybe someone will see a solution to the balance issue other than using a second gearbox and a better system of bearing (or maybe even something like a delrin bushing) might further improve things.

[@Luftbubblan]

Yeah, looks interesting

[@Laroete]

as you mentioned, a solid casing made of thick steel plate, machined solid steel parts, some grease and this thing would genuinely be useful in a lot of industrial applications

[@f.d.6667]

Certainly a nice gadget but not a solution for real-life problems: the show-stopper is friction. *Properly designed gear trains have friction only in the bearings but never on the teeth* (rolling motion via evolute geometry). Here, there teeth are sliding into position. Big no-no in engineering and the reason why worm gears wear out so quickly.

[@JackAdrianZappa]

That's wrong. Checkout the harmonic drive or the cycloidal drive. They are zero backlash drives and require friction on the gears. Here's a good explanation of the harmonic drive: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYLMlYucbtV5j9E

[@zachary3777]

That's not true. Involute gears have sliding and rolling contact. Pure rolling only happens at the pitch radius. Some sliding is a benefit in operation as it keeps the oil film from collapsing.

[@amichayr3418]

Even ideal evolute gears slide, this is plain wrong

[@hi-ccowboy7983]

@7:05 the screws start to loosen. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Harley Davidsons are made.

[@creativusme]

This broke my mind a bit but it is awesome

[@marcseclecticstuff9497]

Just a different form of what I know as a harmonic drive, only a lot worse performance. Harmonic drives have high gear reduction, they're relatively compact, have close t0 0 backlash, run smooth/quiet, and are robust. They are commonly used on CNC machine centers to drive automatic tool changers. We have a bunch of Toyoda's that use them, a few machines are over 30 years old, never had to touch the harmonic drive sections.

[@inthefade]

Thanks I will look those up

[@LateralThinkerer]

Sort of like a harmonic drive that doesn't require the fragile circular spline element. Cool!

[@anon_y_mousse]

Neat. It's a shame that KZbin is working hard to commit hara-kiri because I'm really going to miss channels like this one.

[@Mike-jm5wt]

You're right something has changed, it is increasingly turning into brain rot, I assume that's what tiktok is like (I wouldn't know)?

[@kentlab3850]

​@@Mike-jm5wttried tik tok once, it's still 100 times worse, not even joking. Tho youtube is getting worse and worse and content farms are also responsible for that

[@nebuladoe775]

Hopefully they move to one of the pop up competitors like odysee or something

[@notamouse5630]

Cool, another gearbox that acts like a cycloidal gearbox. I already have a functioning print of a harmonic drive and a cycloidal drive.

[@appa609]

This is more like a split ring planetary

[@GavinBath]

You have amazing skills in explaining things clearly. Well done.

[@haroldsmith45302]

Excellent work! I hope that students pursuing advanced degrees in mechanical engineering will consider focussing on this concept for their research thesis.

[@RobertWill-uq3iv]

If you can imagine it, it's probably already been done. Fascinating stuff, but he mentioned the practical, real world solution at the start of the video: the worm gear drive.

[@jaredkennedy6576]

Now we need a competition with 3D Printing Academy

[@KnooBill]

They are very interesting and you have great physics and cad skills

[@curtybaby]

this would've been a great example for my machine design course

[@JackAdrianZappa]

Interesting variation of the harmonic drive. 👍👍

[@fralinsandfriends]

My husband would understand this. It is interesting. 😊😊👋👋❤❤

[@beansnrice321]

Looks useful for high torque applications, such as driving a winch and spool.

[@mishkamcivor409]

Since the input and output are co-axial I think you could make a cool clock design with this, with a 1rpm input that gives you your minute hand with the input shaft going all the way through to the front and then with a design with a 1:60 reduction then the output wraps around the minute hand and gives you the hour hand and the low speed means that the noise and balance is not so much of an issue

[@goliath9081]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge on the gearing

[@keenheat3335]

i don't know why, but I'm getting a constant velocity joint vibe from it.

[@Roobotics]

But is it though? the output shaft literally moves forward and back, it jitters and isn't constant at all, much more obvious on the higher ratio box, fyi.

[@AllToDevNull]

cool idea. maybe the center gear could be balanced by modulating the infill percentage at least a bit.

[@martynridley3671]

With just a pair of metal worm/gears in series like the ones you showed at the start, you'd get 1600:1. Metal, simpler, stronger, quieter, cheaper, so, ...! Great to explore this kind of stuff, though!

[@Temperans]

Its a matter of use cases. Most of the time you don't need a planetary gear, but when you do its very useful to have. Same thing here, a worm drive is fine if you have the space. But if you are limited in space a design like this is nice to have.

[@Robothut]

Excellent job on making this video and explanation. Thank you for sharing with us.

[@runforitman]

Mechanical engineers are insane

[@AlRoderick]

I think even though it looks like there's a lot of teeth engaging it's still only one at a time. The teeth in front of and behind the one in contact are about to touch but aren't touching yet.

[@robblerouser5657]

Something like this would be perfect for a home telescope.

[@BonesyTucson]

Very cool! I have never heard of pericyclic transmissions before

[@ZacLowing]

Keep in mind, mirroring the gear boxes doubles the gear contact area. 2x the strength, or same strength, half the weight neaded in materials

[@fraudbuster1456]

It’s an interesting concept. Have you done a comparison with a traditional gear with the same ratio for friction? I have a feeling the friction may be too high for practical purposes. Adding bearings to the shaft to reduce the friction there was a great idea, but as you mentioned in the video, there are multiple teeth meshing simultaneously instead of just one and that means more friction.

[@erkintek]

In practical sense, all tork is on one/ two teeth , balance can be mitigated, nice work thanks for knowledge

[@user-hy4jq3pe4y]

Very inspiring! Ever considered to make a calender clock this way?

[@r.j.bedore9884]

I'm sure the angle for the shaft needs to be big enough for the gear teeth to pass by each other as it spins, but reducing this angle as much as possible will reduce the vibrations as well.

[@vincentbarkley9121]

Great work. If you use a much finer gear pitch, the distance of nutation can be reduced greatly, reducing imbalance forces. If you casually look at a harmonic drive, the gear pitch more closely resembles a straight knurl rather than gear teeth.

[@OVERKILL_SS]

I want to see it in an enclosed case with gear oil to see if it quites down then put it to its limit!

[@Mcnoklacyphie]

How to create a rotor for locomotive, thank you the sound remains

[@itonylee1]

seems like a good application for differential gear

[@fernandoandaluz2281]

Brilliant, thanks for sharing

[@Joe-rp8fd]

what if those gear tooth are rounded , probably would be much smoother and wouldn't skip since many are engaged at the same time

[@enderoftime2530]

There should be a counter balance weight installed to keep the center of mass around the center of rotation.

[@stefanguiton]

Excellent

[@I.no.ah.guy57]

What an interesting little gearbox. Im sure theres a few applications for it

[@toomdog]

That reminds me of how hydraulic pumps and motors work. Frankly, I'm thinking of all the times I wish I had known about this in my special project at work.

[@TheTechnopider]

I think that this should technically be backdriveable. The fact that it isn't I think implies that there are inneficiencies in the gear tooth designs. Reminds me a lot of cycloidal gears! I think this idea is very cool and potentially practical!

[@Kargoneth]

Fascinating. I think that, with a different way of meshing the teeth, the engagement could be gentler, like helical gears, though the vibration will remain an issue.

[@jesusvera7941]

i love energy converters, does it gets hot? i like my ECs cool and chill.

[@joewoodchuck3824]

This is great for high ratio needs.

[@Abmotsad]

Ultra-high gear ratios are not difficult. Three worms, labeled A, B, C. Three 100-tooth gears, labeled 1, 2, 3. Worm A drives gear 1, which is coupled to worm B. Worm B drives gear 2, which is coupled to worm C. Worm C drives gear 3. 1,000,000 to 1. Very compact. Nothing wobbles. Off-the-shelf parts.

[@ericbrodersen3666]

Superb! I wonder how well this would work in low speed conditions like bicycle gearing? I’m looking forward to see more. Thanks

[@WhyplayGaming]

3D printing is showing us so many new systems.

[@K-Effect]

These would be great to have in the hubs of each wheel on a vehicle with the proper gear ratio

[@vitorvilasanchez]

seems like a fun concept but must be one helluva thing to balance properly

[@lancethrustworthy]

I think this is useful. Perhaps we will see this in microscopic form. Nanogearing.

[@nogum9763]

in praxis you can make the wobblator and its shaft out of 1 part, id opt for a much larger shaft thoug, id go so far to increase its diameter to the point where its just a bit smaller than the inner diameter of the ring. stator

[@VANdeVice]

Try swapping the incoming and outgoing rotation. In order not to slow down the final rotation, but rather to accelerate it. Is it possible to create a propeller based on this transmission mechanism ? For example, for "pedal catamarans".

[@sugoijan]

Would it be possible to play with the weight distribution of the wobbling gear to make it stable? I guess that might be more dependent on manufacturing quality compared to adding a mirrored gear, but at least it would only be one unit

[@lordfly88]

Definitely interesting, but I think the Split Ring Compound Planetary gearbox is a much more useful design. Equally compact, practicality unlimited ratio options, and balanced.

[@funwithmadness]

I think you should make a robot that walks like an insect with this gearbox.

[@OskarPuzzle]

You can make the gearing ratio even slower if you have 1 tooth difference between the two yellow gears, and each orange gear having 1 tooth more than its yellow mate.

[@retsetman9698]

Exactly, the ratio increases as the number of teeth get closer together.

[@jamesgaither2069]

I have an idea for a clutch mechanism, that would require a lot of pressure but not a lot of parts.

[@lunarz7117]

Maybe use a counter weight like in car engines crank shaft to balance the gearbox without adding a mirrored gearbox?

[@BRUXXUS]

I've been addicted to videos of all the various gearing and drive mechanisms , and this is the first of this kind that I've seen! I wonder if these are used in any real products? The geometry doesn't even seem too hard to machine with standard lathes and mills. 🤔

[@SamChaneyProductions]

Huh, this is kind of like strain wave gearing but without the strain

[@martin-vv9lf]

it's better in a way because it doesn't suffer from flexing fatigue like the strain wave.

[@tylerferrusi7652]

Maybe good for solar panel tracking because of the slow movement required. Could probably have the gearbox sealed and filled with oil for low maintenance since solar arrays are pretty remote sometimes

[@tylerferrusi7652]

Idk about the torque situation - I'd say it's only actually engaging on or two teeth at a time, a lot of other teeth are really close, especially the closer they are to the contact point but unless the gears are flexing, no additional teeth are actually making proper contact. I'd think a next step could be to compare and contrast the design to a planetary configuration to see if there are any benefits but it's definitely interesting either way.

[@Jim202030]

I like this. Still not sure about it vs worm drive but either way I will take the extra arrow for my quiver. The one thing I can say is worm drive vs this has a perpendicular input naturally so this might have some advantage for situations.

[@resetatan500]

Sürekli kendini geliştiriyorsun dostum tebrik eder başarılı işler dilerim.

[@ekaggrat]

you could make it half the size and 3d print it in metal to get strength and precision . great work!

[@vangildermichael1767]

I saw a generator that operated on gravity. Just like a pendulum clock, the weight is hoisted up in the day. And at night as (the weight) "slowly" descends, A high gear ratio generator makes power from the potential energy of the big (weight). Only trouble was, no gear could hold all that weight on one tooth. It looks like your gear has solved that problem. ur oh, maybe not. I remember you say your gear, jams up if you try to "back drive" it. And that is exactly what that gravity generator project needs. A slow (rpm) into a fast (rpm)

[@basquo2]

Pretty damn cool, but I have to imagine that this would be pretty high wear, no matter how refined it gets. But if it's made with easy to change setup, might be a pretty nice alternative

[@IO-zz2xy]

Increadably high gear wear but good potential. Regards from South Africa

[@siegfriedschlag4353]

Hallo, sehr interessant vielen Dank 👍 wünschen dir eine schöne neue Woche ❤ danke für gegenseitige Unterstützung 🔔 Siggi & Anne 👍

[@wingcommand24]

Wait, even crazier. Make this a mobius strip.

[@szki272]

I had a winch that used a planetary drive but it was unusual, It had the motor connected to the planet gears and no sun gear. It drove between 2 ring gears which had a different number of teeth. One was mounted to the housing the other to the drum.

[@jacksparro3150]

The main advantage of a pericyclic gearbox is vey high output torque because several gear teeth are in contact at the same time. Because of its inherent design, we have this vibration problem causing the gearbox to self destruct. The only way to cancel out the vibration is by adding a "mirror image" of the gearbox. But then the output is now in the center of the whole gearbox which leaves us no other option but to use a spur or helical gear which is quite counterintuitive.

[@ChrisTacklind]

It appears you used involutes for the gears. Might a saw tooth or acme work better?

[@scienceraven1200]

here are planetary gears with high ratios: ---- Ratio: 5310.6 ---- sun1: 106, ring1: 158 diff1: 52, sun2: 110, ring2: 164 diff2: 54, max planets = 15 15, coherent planets: 10 halfDegAB = 17.72727 and 18.39416 ---- Ratio: 3554.626 ---- sun1: 107, ring1: 159 diff1: 52, sun2: 111, ring2: 165 diff2: 54, max planets = 16 16, coherent planets: 10 halfDegAB = 17.59398 and 18.26087 ---- Ratio: 5313.742 ---- sun1: 110, ring1: 164 diff1: 54, sun2: 106, ring2: 158 diff2: 52, max planets = 15 15, coherent planets: 10 halfDegAB = 18.39416 and 17.72727 ---- Ratio: 3557.574 ---- sun1: 111, ring1: 165 diff1: 54, sun2: 107, ring2: 159 diff2: 52, max planets = 16 16, coherent planets: 10 halfDegAB = 18.26087 and 17.59398 i have a planet gear generator which materializes them out of thin air i am checking it it today adn uploading it to thingiverse zoon1234micron soon

[@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo]

What is it supposed to replace, we have small reduction gearboxes, stepper motors, variable speed drives etc.

[@Blarrrgum]

Usefull in the circumstances you don't have access to flexible material for an harmonic drive. Harmonic drive don't have the wobbling of middle gear, much greater ratio and tooth engagement.

[@TashiRogo]

Would be interesting to see how this sounds and operates if it was submerged in a heavy oil.

[@bjoern_eberhardt]

This looks similar to the vibration motor mechanisms used in optical lenses

[@honkie_kong1689]

I wonder if you can scale that down to be used in something like a model train locomotive? It could give it true scale speed operation smoothly.

[@bsebastiannwlange3529]

it looks interesting, i would like to see it build like an elektrik high tourq rewnch like the used for automotive for example

[@liberatumplox625]

Could be great in a clock escapement.

[@CONCEPTUALMAN]

That is interesting. In a sense , it looks like a mechanical relative of the planetary gear, or even the differential, If the output is the center and you hold one shaft while spinning the other. Perhaps counterweights in the nutating gear would cure the problem of being out of balance.

[@Gugernoot]

Might have a use in gear reduction socket drivers unless planet gears are still better.

[@Bianchi77]

Nice video, thanks :)

[@piconano]

Very interesting. Question: What is the benefit of this design?

[@gormauslander]

I feel like you could mechanically tether a counterweight to be driven by the same motor to oscillate at the same speed.

[@iggypeters5564]

I could make that gear/axis ofset blindfolded if I wanted to