Nutrition for Climbing | with Tom Herbert

This week Louis sits down with nutritionist Tom Herbert to discuss all things nutrition for climbing. Tom supports world-class rock climbers with nutrition coaching and mindset training, so it was brilliant to hear his insights on topics such as protein, carbohydrates and caffeine. 💪
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[@thespedwards]

0:00 - Intro 2:25 - Protein 9:08 - Carbs 17:03 - Caffeine 20:30 - Cravings 25:25 - Individual Macro Balancing 30:00 - Common Nutrition Errors 32:00 - Summary

[@alexpreston9331]

Easily one of the most accessible videos on nutrition i have watched. Good job team 👍

[@usefulcoach]

Thanks :)

[@FlarkeFiasco]

I just want to thank you for doing this video. I'm in the US, so Healthcare is pretty terrible. I've been trying to schedule a visit with a nutritionist for months. Hours and hours and hours of being on hold with insurance, having my doctor send countless referrals, them being rejected, it's a nightmare. I'm so glad you guys put this out online. And I'm glad Tom has continued to reply to the comments here, as one of them, he pointed to his website for podcast that go into more depth. This is what I've wanted! This should help tremendously in giving me a leg up with my nutrition. Maybe a specialist will be good to consult at some point in the future, but the simplicity of it has helped me learn; I'm stoked to implement some changes soon.

[@usefulcoach]

Really glad it was help. I'm easy to get hold of if you have any more questions.

[@MrCmon113]

How is that a USA thing? That's your specific insurance. Happens everywhere depending on your insurance. And in the USA you have more of a choice there than in other places. If you're in, say, the UK, you'd have the same problem, but no option to change insurance.

[@madr.a]

⁠@@MrCmon113 actually UK has a free national health service (NHS) so we don’t have this issue because we don’t need insurance. Although the years of underfunding has meant waiting times can be long. You could always choose to go to private healthcare, but then you’d have to pay / get insurance

[@thenayancat8802]

Always worth mentioning that coffee with food prevents you from absorbing a lot of minerals (esp iron) from the food

[@ianwhitehead3086]

Glad to see Tom introduced to a larger audience.

[@takkwin]

Am I the only one who's baffled on how they did their entrance?

[@usefulcoach]

Secrets!

[@FlarkeFiasco]

You can see rings dangling from the ceiling off camera

[@MaxLib]

Obviously a zip line

[@MichaelEverheartt]

Wonderful! This channel is blessing for me! - 5 months of climbing for me

[@Rockmaster867]

One year later, how are things going?

[@tkfritz5790]

Point 1. Consistency Consistency with nutrition, allows for consistency with recovery and climbing ability. By climbing at a consistent ability, it facilitates the ability to consistently learn, rather than missing out on growth and learning opportunities due to feeling weaker than usual. Point 2. Protein Nutrition starts with protein as it is the building blocks of our tissues. It builds our muscles, but it’s primary job is to repair our muscles and tissues. By consuming protein within 24 hours after training, it rebuilds and revitalizes your muscles. Because this takes time, consuming protein consistently through the day is more beneficial than consuming a massive amount all at once. Breakdown. - + Build 3-4 meals around a protein each day. For meat eaters, build meals around a protein the size of your palm. A whole chicken breast is around 45g of protein, when you really only need around 30g per meal. By consuming more your body will use what it needs, and discard the remainder. + To build on this, you can include an additional protein based meal or protein shake after training. Across multiple scientific studies the optimum amount of protein for muscle-building appears to be between 1.2 and 1.6 g per kg of body weight (.55g -.72g per lb) however many fitness “personalities” and fitness supplement sponsors suggest significantly more at 0.8 - 1 gram of protein per pound. Part 3. Carbohydrates Carbohydrates act as our primary energy provider. They provide a majority of our individual nutrients and vitamins, as well as fibers. “Carbohydrates act as the rocket fuel for the body.” On a day where you do not need the active fuel to burn, it is fine to go without a significant amount of carbs. “Proteins for recovery, carbohydrates for energy” On the days that you are doing performance and training, carbs act as a beneficial source of energy before, and during training sessions. Active training carbohydrate choices are bananas, juices, breads, and in some occasions things like cookies or brownies may be beneficial due to the combined sugar and carbs you can immediately burn. Part 4. Caffeine and Sleep Caffeine helps with focus, power output, and lowers pain sensitivity, but can cause issues as it impacts the quality of sleep. Caffeine may be acutely good for performance, but should be limited to 3pm at the latest in the day, as to prevent sleeping with a stimulant which impacts tissue growth and recovery. (Skin and Muscle). In the event of climbing in the evening, opting for carbohydrates for energy rather than caffeine may be optimal. In the morning, a combination of carbohydrates and caffeine prior to or during a training session may see significant improvements in energy. Part 5. Cravings Cravings can be good to know what the body “wants” but can often be misunderstood. When experiencing cravings, identify what you may be lacking from your diet. When we crave sugars and sweets or carbs it is often a biproduct of lack of sleep, as our body is looking for easily created energy.

[@cicicamino7379]

Great video! So nice to see someone with balanced and sensible views on nutrition. Would love to see more from Tom on here.

[@usefulcoach]

Thanks :)

[@Macvombat]

Really enjoyed this conversation. Some really high quality content coming from you guys!

[@usefulcoach]

Thanks :)

[@Rockmaster867]

I stick to intermittent fasting to most days (working an office job) by eating until 8pm and then skipping breakfast and have a balanced lunch. Only eating breakfast when I know I will be doing physical stuff before noon. Usually if I have a morning bouldering session on the weekends. Works very well for me.

[@dtctraveler]

Such an informational video without all the jargon. Well done.

[@usefulcoach]

Thanks :)

[@brunoloboo2]

This was so helpful! I’ve watched a lot of videos that focussed on nutrition and although it all made sense I never thought I got clear answers to my questions. Louis’ questions were great and Tom’s answers and explanations were very clear. I feel like I have a much better idea of what I’m doing right and what I need to change. Thanks a lot!

[@Vannguyen1015]

Thanks so much, I really enjoyed this episode. I took a lot out of that.

[@CatalystClimbing]

We are very glad that you got a lot from it!

[@shaunwolfe2956]

Lots of value here. The big question I would love to hear answered is if there’s any nutrition advice for tendon recovery, as that seems to be the biggest obstacle for me personally. I feel my knowledge is lacking in regards to tendon health, strengthening and recovery.

[@CatalystClimbing]

Go check out Tom @usefulcoach on instagram! He is running a live Q&A on climbing nutrition where you can ask regarding this!!

[@cassiusnoyb6499]

Same I ruptured some tendons in my left and and my right finger. It's frustrating because it seems that's the only thing holding me back when it comes to climbing is injury recovery.

[@lukesutherland6285]

From what I can see it's vitamin C and zinc

[@VincentGrimpe]

Very interesting to talk about nutrition and climbing ! 😁 so many problems related to that and interesting for everybody to hear your thoughts 🔥 Keep going you rock it !

[@usefulcoach]

Thanks :)

[@henryjb1572]

19:27 - from personal expirience some days i miss my coffee because of a combination of starting my fast late the previous day and my work schedule -what i find is if i drink or eat a high source of sugar/carbohydrate - the symptoms of the lack of caffeine in my system seems to clear up.

[@libertine5606]

Sardines for protein! Full of protein, omega 3, collagen, calcium, and low in mercury. Raisins for quick carbohydrates. Banana shakes of collagen, vitamin C powder, whey powder, and almond milk is good too.

[@usefulcoach]

Yup, I personally eat mackerel or sardines. It is my only animal protein source.

[@Jimmythemoocow]

I think generally what your saying is correct. I agree that for an everyday climber watching numbers isn't that important unless you are really trying to reach the uppermost limits of your training and/or chasing a certain physique. I would however still caution people to watch their eating and not necessarily blindly consume calories. If I ate whenever I felt like it I would most definitely gain a lot of weight as I have in the past. I also have friends who can be satiated and end up losing weight out of nowhere. I think that if you really care about nutrition and want to give it an honest go, I would at MINIMUM follow the advice of weighing yourself after a couple weeks and keeping tabs on how you are eating and what you can get away with. I think counting calories for a bit to find your true BMR and learning how many calories are in most foods can be very beneficial at least until you have a good idea.

[@usefulcoach]

Yes I agree. It's not about being unaware of what you are eating. Also I have no problem encouraging people to track their food intake. We count sets, reps, and intensity. It's not a problem see meals in the same light if there is a specific end-goal people are working towards. It's just knowing when it is important or not. I.e., you don't take a scale to a restaurant, or turn down social events because you can't track properly.

[@saifmanman]

Thank you for justifying my mid-climb energy gummies habit

[@ichich4223]

I would like to hear Tom's opinion on intermittend and prolonged fasting and keto in context to climbing training and how to implement it the healthiest way..

[@usefulcoach]

I'll ask Louis about doing something next year

[@ichich4223]

great, thanx in advance..

[@sarienstonedog7594]

I've finally understood how I can implement nutrition in my training. Thank you!

[@thisscreensucks]

Awesome intro

[@samtheman5923]

One quick question. How much climbing is “really pushing it”

[@jaytizzle365]

Go fast juice! Best passing comment!

[@DavidSchilter]

Lolz, I used to go to the gym after smashing a ton of oats. My dad (and others, for example, the yogi BKS Iyengar) have this rule of not eating 3 hours before exercising but not me :)

[@Gabrielowns321]

A couple peanut butter sandwiches has plenty of protein :) And protein powder mixed into granola with oat milk works too!

[@austintrotta9417]

But is it a complete protein?

[@Hopesfallout]

@@austintrotta9417 It's not. Unless the sandwich bread is some type of high protein bread with a lot of soy or egg ideally, peanut butter sandwiches are a pretty bad source of protein. Peanut butter, just like nuts in general is great for a healthy diet but not specifically as a protein source.

[@Glenburrows]

31:22 - YES people should eat as much as they can get away with to achieve their goals not the least as the calories also carry nutrition.

[@wintersalins8535]

Great video. I appreciate the chemistry between these two!

[@dawnriddler]

I was looking for actual food suggestions, especially low calorie foods that will keep you full. I went from eating 5 times a day to 7 once I started climbing regularly and I need to make some changes. Protein and carbs aren't really the issue, the amount of food that I'm eating now is the issue. 😅

[@stinhhh]

My question is about good sources of fat. What are they? If you try to prioritize healthy fats this can get expensive. If I put more saturated fats in my diet, I have this learned idea that I will die of heart disease or something. I have consumed more protein in the last year or two, but I am still struggling to increase fat intake. Thanks!

[@usefulcoach]

High welfare pasture raised meat, fish, eggs, diary, avocado, nuts, olives, olive oil. If you are avoiding animal products, then include an algae sourced omega3 supplement. In terms of saturated fat, we do have enough data to say that it does raise LDL levels, and LDL appears causative to poor long-term health. If you are eating a whole ingredient, mimally processed food diet, not consuming a large amount of coconut oil, and are active, then you will be fine. What we don't want is to be sedantary, eating an excess of energy, and that to come from refined carbohydrates and fatty animal products. Nuts (walnuts, almonds, brazil nuts) and good virgin olive oil are an easy ways to bring up fats without expense.

[@fuzz6263]

Nuts, nuts, nuts! They have some nice protein as well. Same goes for seeds. Both of them can be added to anything, whether it be sweet or savoury. Olive oil is also a great idea, use it as your go-to fat source for cooking, roasting and stir-frying. Super heart-healthy.

[@jermainehinds24]

One thing that I'm exploring at the moment is the use of creatine. After protein supplements, its usually the goto for those doing high intensity workouts as it enables you to push yourself beyond the point where you'd usually be fatigued. Is this something which would be recommended for climbers?

[@usefulcoach]

I actually do recommend creatine monohydrate to almost everyone (including my own mother).

[@publicalways]

Thk u for hosting this great session. The guest speaker made it very easy to understand and sensible to follow. i for one had been eating big meals during training days and under-eating when not. Now i'll starting paying attention to having consistent meals across, and also during training. much appreciation for sharing your insights.

[@BIGBORE375HH]

Great discussion! 👍🏻

[@usefulcoach]

Thanks :)

[@rbarreira2]

26:05 this sounds wrong. The difference in lean body mass can definitely be tens of kilograms between smaller people and larger athletes.

[@isaach6313]

Cleanest intro 👍

[@davidbecker54]

Such a great conversation! Thank you for talking about coffee and cravings!

[@radixnutrition]

A great video 👍

[@CatalystClimbing]

Thank you!

[@wixic111]

So me consuming Oreos before, during and after a session is a good thing. Goooooood.

[@usefulcoach]

Well they are helpful, but there are more helpful options out there :)

[@dakiblabla]

Not covered topic : Carrots - really healthy or one man's quest to turn us all orange?

[@thisscreensucks]

Been really wondering about nutrition. I've always ate mediocre-ly. Not terribly bad but not that great. Got into climbing the last year and even after a year of climbing I find it hard to recover fast enough to climb 2 days a week consistently. Feels like after 3 weeks of 2 sessions I'm falling behind on recovery. Trying to change my diet to hopefully recover faster.

[@usefulcoach]

I did a previous more detailed Q&A on Catalyst Online, and if you go to my website on the front page are links to recent podcasts that have much more detail on nutrition for climbing.

[@Alexander31616]

On the topic of protein, if it is a 24 hr window, how much less inefficient is it to have three meals but have 75g of protein in just one of those meals, rather than spreading it across all of them? Would you require maybe 80g of protein (when you are just overloading in one meal) to get the same effect whats the sort of payoff?

[@usefulcoach]

What we can do with protein is rate limited, and unlike carbohydrates (glucose) and fats, we cannot store excess protein (amino acids). So depending on how much muscle mass you have to absorb circulating amino acids that could be used for tissue protein synthesis, once you have too large a meals of protein the more of it would simply be metabolised for energy. So maybe only 50g of that 75g meal could be absorbed within a couple of hours before a portion of it is just used for energy. Obviously not a "waste" but an expensive energy source.

[@Alexander31616]

@@usefulcoach brilliant thank you, I guess this means I can eat a little more protein before bed as I'm not using as much energy and it should help my recovery! Great discussion by the way.

[@marktodd7397]

Would have been helpful to show example meals through a daily basis

[@rundino]

Was interested to hear thoughts about fat intake

[@usefulcoach]

Look below in the comments of my reply to Austin

[@dumplingbao2238]

this is great

[@Drummondtheman]

I know I'm a bit late to the talk here, but I'm curious what happened with the holds behind Tom at 12:59? All the holds suddenly gain dots over them.

[@usefulcoach]

It's a light up board, so they cycle like that when not used.

[@TVinmyEye]

I’ve been climbing and bouldering for about 10 months now. I put in about 10 hours a week at the climbing and bouldering gym. My diet mostly consist of just drinking coconut water and eating chicken burritos. I swear it’s provided me with substantial sustenance and energy to send harder lol. I also fast every day and usually eat 1.5 hours before a gym session which usually begin 6pm

[@ItsAlwaysRainingInWa]

Why does no one talk about keto or intermittent fasting when it comes to nutrition in rock climbing?! For someone who has insulin resistance and is only eating two meals a day, eating carbs three times, as suggested here, before during and after a workout is simply not possible and would cause more harm then help

[@usefulcoach]

I actually did a 2+ hour podcast about the Ketogenic diet on my ClimbSci podcast. I typically recommend to clients (when appropriate) to manipulate meal frequency, meal timing, and carbohydrate intake across the week. This is a general public surface level interview about climbing nutrition, rather than a deep dive.

[@XavierBartholome]

@usefulcoach ... sorry to raise this one up, but there's something I'm not sure I understood. When you say "25g of proteins", do you mean 25g of something that contains proteins (so there are less than 25g of actual proteins), or does it means 25g of actual proteins (so you need more grams of the stuff that contains the proteins)?

[@larryseibold4287]

exactly my question. 5 x 25G of protein is a lot of amino acids per day for almost anyone (IMO), especially a small 125-150lb climber.

[@usefulcoach]

So typically aiming for 25g of protein per meal is a good place for almost everyone, as that gets them to about 100-120g per day. This going to provide enough amino acids and particularly leucine at that guideline.

[@usefulcoach]

@@larryseibold4287 yes for someone who is smaller it would scale downwards, to around ~100g total protein by the end of the day.

[@jaredanwyl3686]

So my partner that is 110#'s needs the same amount of protein (190#'s) that I need?

[@SinnethSoul]

So if someone admits that low carbohydrate diet has been used by a lot of very successful climbers and than saying that carbohydrates will be your main source of energy, unless you eat a lot of fat, which not many will do (why not??? ) I am a bit confused.

[@CatalystClimbing]

Check out Tom on Instagram @usefulcoach he has lots of detailed breakdowns!

[@IzzyIkigai]

"The last coffee you should have is about 3 o'clock" well then i'm fine, i'm usually out of the gym at 11pm and my last coffee is probably an hour before that and i get into bed perfectly fine at 4AM :'D

[@Irishamerican33]

I stopped listening when he said “you only need 30g of protein per meal”

[@dirkh2122]

According to literature, less than 2.5g/kg BW carbohydrates per day restrict training progress. Sounds odd what is told here with 120g of carb per day. Yes, food is fuel and repair material. Having carbs and protein at the same level is beyond literature. Just eat healthy and don't make too much of a science of it, which at least here has an odd flavour.

[@dirkh2122]

@Tom Herbert @~10:20 you say 150g to 120g carbohydrates. @60kg BW 150g just hits the 2.5g/kg BW...and 60kg would be a very lightweight male person. Yes, you mention that vegetarians/vegans are higher. The following is a bit misleading to me. Now listening to it 2-3 times again: Yes, you say to increase with sessions but first time this was not clear to me, sorry.

[@usefulcoach]

On days you climb I am asking people to consume double the amount of carbohydrates they do on non-training days. This is typically in the range of around 150-300g of carbohydrates. If someone does not eat animal products, their typical carbohydrate is around 200-250g on non-training days and about 300-350g on training days. Did you mishear me talking about protein? I say a minimum of 120g of protein per day. [Replied again, as used the wrong account]

[@usefulcoach]

@@dirkh2122 So some people I ask to bring their carbs right down on non-training days, even to the range of 90g, and fat up to make up the calories. As with these sorts of Q&As it's difficult to give blanket recommendations without nuance etc.

[@dirkh2122]

@@usefulcoach Thanks for clarifying. As stated above, I admitted that I got you wrong. No mix up with protein but did not fully get that you ask people to get additional carb on training days but instead understood that the first mentioned 120-150g should be taken in closer (before&after) to training. Misunderstanding on my side but maybe possible to change phrasing to avoid such misunderstandings in the future.. Maybe more on topic discussion: what you recommend has a tendency to the "train high, sleep low" principles in endurance training. I would have assumed that climbing being more of a power endurance style sports would also benefit of slightly higher carbs on recovery days to fully exploit the training. Thoughts on this?

[@usefulcoach]

@@dirkh2122 it's mainly about energy balance and "metabolic flexibility". That is not supplying a lot of glucose when you don't really need it, to facilitate a higher use of fat via lower dietary carbohydrate. In regards to the "train high, sleep low", if you go to my channel I did a recent video on all that.

[@ryoma4904]

The day I drink a lot of water is also the day when my palm is the most sweaty😂

[@zerodamonsta942]

Nice video Louie

[@TheNickMartinez]

I wish you guys covered Fats in this episode but still a great video nonetheless

[@triplea657aaa]

I just need a steady diet of Clif protein bars and call it a day 😂

[@MaxLBogue]

"Entrance!"

[@DekarNL]

PB on toast not good enough for breakfast? Hell no: 3 pieces is 24g+ of protein.

[@usefulcoach]

So yeah it's actually not a bad spread of protein, carbs and fat. However the protein itself is a little low in the amino acid "leucine", which is a key signal for growth and recovery. 3 toast with 3 tablespoon of PB comes out at around 1g of leucine, and we really want 2g minimum. Leucine is typically lower in plant sources of protein.

[@tehtsb]

Except for legumes, which are a great source of leucine. So you may want to consider having a side of scrambled tofu with your PB toast in the morning. Very easy to make, healthy, and tasty.

[@Bushcroissant]

I love Catalyst Climbing, but honestly this is not a very good video. The guy mostly talks about what he would recommend, without giving insight in his reasoning. It gives the whole interview a 'trust me bro' kind of feel. Why would you recommend a high protein meal 3-5 times a day? Why would you recommend at max 150 grams of protein? And, besides the point, he repeatedly assumes climbers go from work > gym > eat. Most people don't eat dinner at ~22:00.

[@usefulcoach]

So the format of the video was a general Q&A (

[@Bushcroissant]

@@usefulcoach Thanks for taking the time to reply. If that was your take on this interview it makes more sense that it wasn't backed up by theory in this video. When listening to the intro it didn't come across to me as touching on the pure basis without much terminology. In future interviews I would take the time to touch on this and refer people to articles where you get your information from. It adds more body to your expertise, especially if people are not familiar with your credentials.

[@usefulcoach]

@@Bushcroissant no problem. Thanks for the feedback.

[@studiorex]

Saw another KZbin about using collagen supplements to aid tendon repair and strength. Is this actually a thing or just a gimmick?

[@CatalystClimbing]

I would go and ask a nutritionist! In particular check out Tom on instagram @usefulcoach

[@tristanmayfield4851]

I'm here for the view of those sexy looking boards in the background!

[@edwardoakley8659]

Where is this gym?

[@usefulcoach]

It is the separate training room of "Canary Wall", London, UK.

[@edwardoakley8659]

@@usefulcoach Looks awesome. Great Video btw, you make things so easy to understand... it's useful, I might say.

[@user-ez4iv2kp4f]

I hope, its not an advertisement of cricket protein 😉

[@rohanarchibald5853]

He is totally wrong about diet. You do not need plants to be healthy

[@krispagaduan7960]

Damn .. this is all horrible nutrition advice. Sugar?! 5 meals a day?! Eat before, during, AND right after training?! Follow this advice if you enjoy several energy crashes and insulin spikes throughout your day. Start your research now about the benefits of intermittent fasting to build muscle, get stronger, and maintain low body fat. He is not addressing the importance insulin plays in the body in relation to both physical and cognitive performance.

[@usefulcoach]

The format of this video was a short Q&A, and I answered the questions presented. The clients I coach use time restricted eating windows, single meal days, and various other specific nutrition contexts.

[@cassiusnoyb6499]

So I wonder my diet mostly consists of protein and fats. I would say my diet is mostly a carnivorous diet. Is it bad to eat just protein instead of carbs? For instance breakfast I ate chili with beans for lunch I ate a chicken stir fry and then for dinner I had lentil soup with lots of sausage mixed in. I guess it's a little bit of veggies but mostly meat.

[@cassiusnoyb6499]

I swigged down my caffeine drink as soon as he said 3 o clock lol