NVIS Survival Antenna Test | Near Vertical Incidence Skywave | Emergency

[@johnkershaw9575]

Great video and glad you are able to get out in the country side. JJK

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks for the comment John.

[@SevenFortyOne]

I had problems using my SUV to support my inverted vee - like you said, it de-tunes the antenna. I've had much better luck since figuring out how to support the antenna on it's own using rebar and surplus military poles.

[@hamradiocq]

Yes, I also am interested in rapid deployment and take down. It's not easy.

[@KX4UL]

Pretty interesting results Tom. I am betting your van was acting as a reflector and possibly making your signal favor a particular direction. I know there are hundreds of videos of HAM's trying different antenna set-ups, but I never get tired of watching the videos and seeing the results. I too would change out the wire for a coated, more flexible wire. I will be interested in seeing further results from this antenna. Thanks for enduring the cold to make this video. Take care!

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks for the nice comment. I'll get out there when the weather and time permit asap.

[@PatAutrey]

I’m trying to find the very best NVIS antenna for close in local contacts between 5-100 miles

[@douglasdreger3852]

An inverted v has nearly isotropic azimuthal radiation (unlike an elevated horizontal dipole). I am able to get 100-400 mile contacts on 40/80m with a single inverted v. What is the reason and benefit of having the four wire arms? Edit: I started writing before the end. I guess the reason is to have different length wire so you can more effectively tune different bands. For my NVIS attempts I’ve used tuned dipoles on 40/80m. I use jumpers on buddipole coils to switch between the two. Thanks again for a great video.

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks Douglas. I hear you.

[@KD2MIC]

When I throw a painters pole up I use a patio umbrella stand. Heavy base with close to n 8-10" long receiver

[@hamradiocq]

Good idea.

[@brianrose2487]

They have a mast holder that fits into the receiver on your hitch, don't have one yet but will for my truck. Great contacts!

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks, for the tip Brian, I want one. Where to get?

[@brianrose2487]

@@hamradiocq Ebay Camco 51611 hitch mount flagpole holder

[@victorbell1378]

Like the music. I am sure I read in more than one publication that nvis works best when both or all stations in the net are using antennas set up for nvis. Keep up the good work.

[@hamradiocq]

Yep, that's what I heard Victor. I expected it to be a tough day.

[@lessmith99]

Use a heavy weight T Post (used to hold up cattle fence) drive it in the ground about 18” ( they are fairly easy to drive and pull, with the right equipment) A 6’ one will have no problem holding your mast upright. I think I would use hose clamps to fix the mast to the pole. With this set up you should not need guys. I am using 4’ plastic electric fence posts to hold my antenna wires off the ground. If you go to Tractor Supply they will show you what you need to drive and pull the T Post.

[@JohnSublette]

K4TO - that's my Dad. The dipole was one of his great projects this year. I had the pleasure of operating his station during Thanksgiving last week. It was fabulous! Much better than the 37 foot vertical I have in my backyard in a subdivision... Keep up the good work! 73! de K4TOO!

[@hamradiocq]

Ho man that's so cool! K4TO is your dad? Great spot my friend, John.

[@JohnSublette]

@@hamradiocq Yessir! And, when I got my Extra License 3 years ago, I couldn't help it - I requested a callsign based on his. :D

[@jsieb]

Interesting. I've got one of those drive on mast holders, I'll have to try it out with my Packtenna and see what the analyzer says about the car compared to standing it up out in the open.

[@hamradiocq]

Hey Jason. I just ordered one from Sotabeams. It'll be in video soon.

[@KX4UL]

@Jason Siebert - It would be interesting to know your results with and without the car. I am guessing Tom's van was reflecting the signal thus favoring a particular direction. It's fun to see the results HAMs get trying various antennas and set-up configurations.

[@JulietNovember9]

Thank you for doing this and documenting your findings. Any testing like this takes time and it's really helpful to see this. Running into the same problem with things not working like it should on paper. AZ QSO party this weekend and trying to set up NVIS for in state contacts. Have an EFHW 40m literally 4 feet off the ground but still contacting out farther than I'm supposed to. NVIS seems like pretty elusive Voodoo. 73!

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks for the comment I really appreciate it.

[@walteredwards544]

If you have a second antenna like a small vertical, that could be used for listening, this might help you I'd some stations you might be missing

[@hamradiocq]

Absolutely right Walter. If I were staying over night I would add that. This was just a quick field test.

[@Brandon-dg8zn]

The wire orientation has a lot to do with which direction the signal is mainly heading. Think broadside E/W, N/S, etc. Depending on which one of the 2 dipoles was actually used is the determining factor. You might be better off using just a regular dipole. To keep things short, you could use a loaded 80M dipole and a tuner. Even though the signal is suppose to go basically straight up it's not always the case. You might need a counterpoise wire directly under the dipole. Make the wire 5% longer (think yagi reflector element). As for the painter pole mast, you can always use a long stake, say 6 feet, pound it into the ground 2 feet and just tie the pole to it. Though some "experts" say 16 feet is the optimal height for nvis, others say 20 feet is better. Your mileage may vary. 0.2 - 0.25 wavelength above the ground. You might also want to try using no more than 50 watts. You want your signal to reflect off the ionosphere, not go through it. Again, your mileage may vary. Brandon, ND3U

[@hamradiocq]

Sorry I missed this comment, Brandon. Yeah this was more of learning how to setup for the first time which I found to be more cumbersome than I realized. I've since improved it. I appreciate your tips....will consider.

[@larspregge6420]

Whats the name of the handles on the side of the radio?

[@hamradiocq]

Oh that's Portable Zero. google it.

[@williamlimyx]

Yaesu FT-450D or Yaesu FT-891 better bro? Wanna use it for base and portable but most of the time at base sometimes will use it for portable

[@hamradiocq]

I don't know the 450...? Love my 891 though.

[@mikemcdonald5147]

bro I was jamming out to the tunes and you just faded them out I can believe you cut off the music lol. great vid and showing how NVIS works thanks for the video.

[@hamradiocq]

hee hee

[@VickyGeagan]

cq K I have worked California on 75 QRP 100 watts NVIS with just a NVIS g5rv dipole from the east coast. I checked into the ABBA net. The net control station thought I was mobile. I could here him he could not her me. I had a relay from another part of California from the net control station. Just so you know you were using a beam NVIS Tom. Your car was acting as a reflector. A great trick, you can try is to spin your antenna another direction to see where you make contact. 73's catch you down the log.

[@hamradiocq]

Thank you Vicky. SO nice to see a female ham. I wish there were more... Love your trick idea to spin the antenna.

[@VickyGeagan]

@@hamradiocq My ham club always uses nvis for field day and that was an old trick we used to do to make more contacts. Their are a lot more woman in Ham radio these days they even have their own cw club.

[@pgooden51]

Tom, you can go to Home Depot, Lowe’s or another Home Center and find yourself a two foot or three feet unfinished tabletop in the project area. You can measure the inside diameter of your painters pole where the plastic handle piece is (I hope it is removable) and get a pipe from the plumbing section with the outer diameter is the same as the inner diameter of the painters pole with a threaded end. Ask the person in the plumbing department for a matching flange that the pipe can screw into. Find the appropriate mounting screws for the flange and screw it into the tabletop. The tabletop will be your supporting platform as you go about staking your wires. It is like a flower table upside down. Good luck. K6PFG.

[@hamradiocq]

That is a great idea. I'll share that with others.

[@BargainBasementHamRadio]

We're cursed Tom....at least we've made a couple of contacts, but it shouldn't be so hard. I'm wondering if there is some terrain between us causing the issues. angle of return signal vs mountains, etc... who knows. I'm sure that the van was affecting the antenna, but how much is anyone's guess. My horizontal V dipole is aimed west, but there is a house in the way. We'll try again soon.

[@hamradiocq]

No. I think me with nvis ant. I would hear you but not send.

[@WJ6FRadio]

Great video! Dig that camping site you have. MO is a great state! Almost moved to Blue Springs.

[@hamradiocq]

Yeah, I"m not familiar with Blue Springs... tnx fer comment.

[@pnowikow]

I'm in STL. What park is this?

[@OldF1000]

Ham radio the hobby that last a lifetime with a never ending learning curve . Scary and exciting at the same time 😉

[@hamradiocq]

Scary that I might destroy my radio.

[@gt3940]

Looking forward to using mine, I wonder how the metal portion of the painting pole affects the antenna let alone the van, I'll see with mine when the 3d printed part comes in and the fiberglass pole, the pole holder came in today from Amazon and of course the pipe is too small for the 22` fiberglass pole, good thing for bungie cords. It worked out well for my island's outing and at work in the generator yard just to lash the pole to the ground holder or anchor. As for the hitch mount it would restrict use of the lift gate unless it projects out a ways, sodabeam makes a drive over mount for the tires I have a homemade version of that and you just drop the pole in as the tire supports the pole. You going to do a CW outing soon ? Thanks for the tip on ham alert, I was able to work wg0at on 30m today!

[@hamradiocq]

wgOat! That's awesome. I meant to do CW on this outing, but my paddle didn't work so I cut it out... : ( The painters pole, I think doesn't matter, as long as the wire doesn't touch the pole. I realized this once I had it up. It was close. That "drive over mount" is exactly what I'm talking about. I need that for convenience. Where can I get one?

[@gt3940]

@@hamradiocq check ur email

[@PatrickDickey52761]

A thought for setting it up. Stake down one side of the "X" and then set the pole up vertical wherever you plan on mounting it. Then walk out each of the lines for the other side of the "X" and stake them. You shouldn't need to lean it against your car at all then. (*shouldn't*)

[@hamradiocq]

Yeah it was a first run full of mistakes my friend.

[@nateworzel6044]

Where were you operating? I was camping at Cuivre River State Park last night.

[@hamradiocq]

That was Logan Conservation area up north of Troy. : )

[@RFMaster6]

What's the max power it will handle ? Is it QRP only or will it handle 100w ?

[@hamradiocq]

I think it will definitely handle 100W probably more, but I don't see it on the data sheet? www.radio-oasis.com/nvis

[@KN4YEM]

Hey!!! Top video I'm in Richmond,VA also 73 out.

[@hamradiocq]

Hey KN4YEM I think I have a direct channel into VA from MO. I live in OK now though.

[@KN4YEM]

@@hamradiocq Oh okay Nice!!! Happy new years 73.

[@petbytes7167]

If your campsite (Park) is listed on POTA, you could spot yourself with the park designator and you'll get calls.

[@hamradiocq]

Its not its conservation area

[@dandypoint]

Just a couple comments from my experience. I am assuming you are using 40 meters, but it really does not matter as long as you are under the critical frequency. I find a resonant dipole or inverted V is simple and hard to beat. I also include the sloping dipole where one end is supported and the other end is walked out as far as you can get like you did your inverted V setup. Dipoles and inverted V antennas are essentially Omni directional unless they are “high”. Less than a quarter wave is not high, even an 80 meter dipole at 65 feet is not “high”, whereas my 10 meter dipole at 45 feet is high and has a pronounced null off the ends. Usually only metal objects that are in the neighborhood of a quarter wave long or some resonant length will act as reflectors or directors. I would not think a car under the antenna would have any noticeable affect on directivity at the 40 meter wavelength. The metal pole should be fine also as I and many hams have metal tower’s supporting their dipoles and other antennas. I also usually skip the balun on portable resonant antennas such as a dipole. It adds weight and in most cases is not necessary. It is only necessary to keep common mode current off the outside of the coax shield. Obviously, such current would radiate, and in the case of highly directive antennas it hurts the directive pattern but such is not a concern with dipoles or NVIS. If using high power then the effects of having such current/ voltages could cause issues ( radio chassis becomes hot with RF and other RFI issues appear) that would then be solved with a balun. In most cases changing the feedline length or adding a counterpoise could also solve the problem. One note on antennas very close to the ground is that the resonant frequency will be lower near the ground. I once “tuned” an 80 meter inverted Vee by lowering the ends for CW at the low end and raising them for SSB near 3800 KHz.

[@ea6wu]

Thanks for the video!

[@hamradiocq]

Tnx for the comment ea6wu

[@beyondboris]

Hi what band were you working? Paul VK4PWG

[@hamradiocq]

Sorry Paul I don't remember.

[@windowfitter1587]

Great video Tom

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks windowfitter.

[@Photoeye65]

I like how you baby that rig! 😂 in the booster seat.

[@hamradiocq]

Yep, I baby all my equipment

[@walteredwards544]

From limited experience even if your antenna is not at optimum height for DX, you might still get a little skip. I reached a station in England on 40 meters with an EFHW 10m to 40m that was about 25 feet in the air

[@hamradiocq]

That's exactly what I was wanting to test. Very interesting comment. More videos to come.

[@spraymadfoamyo7262]

You got you a van!!! Sweet. You like it? Sorry, I haven't been watching. Got into 35mm film photography. Glad to see you are still Hamming.

[@hamradiocq]

Ha! Yeah I get it Spray Mad. I've had the van, wife drives it though. I just steal it now and then.

[@davidsradioroom9678]

I like NVIS antennas. Great for emergency and portable work. That antenna has a big footprint. I assume it is for 40 and 80 meters only. Did you need the tuner> Suggestion for the wore: SOTA (sotabeams.co.uk) sells wire winders. You could get a set of four anf wind the wires on them. I did that with my Wolf Fiver Coils antenna, and they work like a champ.

[@hamradiocq]

Funny you mentioned. I just bought wire winders and a drive over mast mount from Sotabeams!

[@davidsradioroom9678]

@@hamradiocq I have a drive over mast mount, too. I can get it up to 20 feet without guying. Can we see your new set up in your next video?✔

[@andrewscharbarth2099]

Get a two inch PVC endcap and screw it to a board. Drill a hole in each corner of the board and put a tent stake through each one of them. m Now you've got a socket to hold the pole that won't go anywhere and it cost you $5 to make.

[@hamradiocq]

Great!

[@timw8ngt]

Nice video. Thanks

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks, Tim

[@saxmusicmail]

Crooked mast? Gently lift it and walk it over to where it is vertical. Just that simple. This antenna is a copy of a military antenna. The pairs of wires are not resonant on the ham bands. They are resonant at 6.16 mhz and 9.36 mhz. Shorten the 25' wires to 16.5' each. That will put it in the middle of the 20 meter band. Shorten the 38' wires to 32.8' each. This will put it in the middle of the 40 meter band. With a little touchup from the tuner you will be able to work 15 meters. Let me suggest 14 ga MTW wire. It won't kink like THHN or the wire you are using.

[@mikeydvd1]

Good job. Even know you didn’t like the antenna. Always cool going portable. This is what this hobby is all about. Thanks for sharing. 73s. AA1US

[@hamradiocq]

Oh I like it. Just has different properties

[@mikesmithg0rfd356]

try something like this..

[@hamradiocq]

No, that's too hard.

[@mikesmithg0rfd356]

@@hamradiocq www.amazon.com/Boone-Outdoor-Under-Tire-Stand/dp/B001IBHVJI/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Drive-on+Mast+Mount&qid=1573083583&sr=8-19

[@mikesmithg0rfd356]

get something like this put on the floor roll car on put pole in it

[@colincolin30]

Tom, I tend to think the metal ploe would inter react withe the aerial. I use the Fibre glass poles for that reason. Enjoy your videos mate.Colin vk2jcc

[@hamradiocq]

Yes, Colin. I find fiberglass to be weak though. I've snapped more than one of them.

[@daleurban4059]

Thanks for the video on Nvis. I have become interested in Nvis for local HF comms. Take a look at www.sws.bom.gov.au/HF_Systems/6/5 It shows the the frequency that is usable for Nvis. I have been watching this website for a couple months and it seems that 60 and 80 are the best bands with 40 meters occasionally. If we had better solar cycle conditions 40 m would be more usable. Thanks foe demo on that antenna I have been wondering about those.

[@hamradiocq]

Thanks for the comment Dale, I'll check it out. Yes, I've never used 60M before. I don't understand it. I'll try more 80m next time.

[@MoTown44240]

Antennas do not need to be pretty Tom. The drive on holder for a mast would be nice. You worried about reflectivity from your vehicle influencing your antenna signal? Doubtful since your contacts have been in the range that NVIS contacts can be expected to be heard. You youngsters are more concerned about appearance of self to others rather than self comfort. Dress for the weather, not how you will look to others. Try layering and mechanic type gloves that retain heat and give you the dexterity of using a pen and turning the knobs on your comm's equipment. 73 KB8AMZ

[@hamradiocq]

Well, Terry. You have to remember, I get a lot of comments on every little aspect. So, when my painters pole is crooked, I try to head them off at the pass and say why. I don't care that much I just want to shut down the comments.

[@vironpayne3405]

I used to be a fan of frequency agile non-resonant antennas, such as 135ft OCFD and Windoms. I have in recent years moved primarily to 135ft EFHW antennas that are resonant. They have nearly the same efficiency as resonant dipoles and they are much easier to deploy. Your antenna looks like it is based upon a military design. That does not mean it is an efficient antenna. It means it is frequency agile, rugged, and can be deployed by ignorant GIs. I get concerned when I see a tuner is a necessary part of the system. In the strictest sense as defined by PhD Ben Witveit, the one Dr NVIS, NVIS range is 200km to sometimes 300km. This is my setup for NVIS. I thought I watched your video a year or two back and commented, but I didn't see my previous comment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2Kme5l3hpZomtUsi=sLYqJ0-OkCZyD7oU

[@xzs6ba0]

Very good video and NVIS Test... just wind on mike a problem... Enjoy.. 73... ZL1BAA

[@hamradiocq]

Yeah, i hear ya

[@kevinrhodes9329]

I enjoyed your video thanks for sharing it 73 kd7kyb

[@hamradiocq]

Thank you Kevin. Appreciate the comment.