Pirate Software Ashes of Creation Situation

[@Nyce-Gaming]

Join us on discord to discuss AOC and/or apply to Syndicate guild: discord.gg/tNHaDmqgTz Also feel free to signup to AOC with my referral code cause it somehow makes my opinion less compromised than that of a full time CC 😏 Ashes Of Creation Referral Link: ashesofcreation.com/sign-up/r/HI5ZG9WTR8FVCMYL

[@2025-l3j]

we have MMR system in RTS, so we need MMR system for MMO servers. at the end of each season a certain % of top guilds move to a server with a higher mmr. for example, like starcraft 2 we have leagues - silver gold platinum etc. I would like to see a competition of guilds in the gradmaster league what do you think?

[@henrythegreatamerican8136]

If and when the world fully expands, it will be harder for guilds like that to control everything.

[@jonathanhughes8679]

You know why it’s so social of an MMORPG making communities and feel that old school feel? First it’s PvP forcing you to seek some kind of protection. Secondly you can’t TP from place to place and must walk so friends and they help you do all the things required.. smaller guilds usually have more knowledge of each other and it is nice to know how your companions play.

[@swaangreen9188]

The point that they can't tele into big fights really makes small merc guilds viable and fun tbh.

[@MadManDan-MMD]

Having a "guild skill tree" that sacrifices max members perk isnt going to fix zergs, leaders will just make 10 separate guilds and get the best guild perks on all of them and call it a day, people communicate in Discord anyways, no need for guild chat ingame. Slightly annoying for leaders but its been done on mmo's for over a decade. Zergs will zerg

[@Dwarfurious]

Have an Alliance skill tree then, and limit the number of alliances guilds and incentivize wars against other large alliances and decentivize an alliance from fighting unaligned guilds. Even if they go all out and form multiple umbrella alliances they'd be competing with eachother

[@XeegCreates]

It’s still annoying for them though. When guild wars are declared it is only between guilds. So a small 50 man guild can war dec Actual Pirates and only the 50 members in Actual Pirates are flagged.

[@chammy2812]

This is why in my opinion the "issue" of Guild Wars targeting players in town mentioned here is actually a good solution to combat this. You can't make 100 separate guilds with all the artisan perks and just camp those characters safely in town. This system means they can be picked off with no way to fight back. If the Zerg guilds are going to circumvent the guild size rules (by making multiple guilds), then them getting treated as not being in the same guild (i.e. not letting someone from Guild 14 fight in a war that Guild 21 is in) is perfectly fair. They want to have their cake and eat it to. All this system is doing is actually forcing their separate guilds to in fact be separate.

[@Fae_Viking_Princess]

FFS Zerg doesn't mean large guild.

[@Biscuitdough]

Guild chat in a game is a must for me I don't wanna be on discord 24 7... during raids only for me that's it

[@Silver-Buchanan]

Actual Pirates is on my current server after wipe. Havent really had issues with them. My guild has PVPed them as well all in good fun. I do think its a bit stale seeing Actual Pirates XXIV or whatever number they are on but zergs will plague every game they are allowed to be in.

[@Nazgull2k1]

Its funny.. cause The Federation is clown rolling them at EVERY engagement. They arent anywhere NEAR as big and powerful as you think

[@_AriseChicken]

one of the largest guilds in wow is called the old gods, has like 18k members and maybe 2 braincells split between all of them. Theres a reason why they opt to zerg.

[@TheSortingHelmet]

War of Attrition is usually the bane of large guilds against numerous smaller guilds needling them.

[@GP-ur6if]

The map size and lack of ability to show up to a fight quickly is the main deterrent as you point out. Now, what about Node sieges and other planned battles?

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@GP-ur6if this is a big question if they truly become uncapped sieges 🤔

[@ReactFaster]

Really cool perspective on how the lack of fast travel presents a huge roadblock for massive guilds to really benefit from their numbers advantage. Sounds like that could create some interesting dynamics with how smaller groups engage with them.

[@TheToledoTrumpton]

Unfortunately, you wont get the chance to revel in their misery. If it doesn't get fixed, they just wont play. This isn't real life, you are not compelled to play a game that doesn't suit you.

[@SuperBlackatude]

Once more of the map is in play it will become even more of a reality. They either all hangout in a cluster of nodes stripping their land of resources or spread out across the world making them more vulnerable. People forget that if they are even 2-3 nodes separated thats at least a 30 min mount ride to reinforce a group being ambushed. Zerg guilds will have to be in the thousands to be game breaking and the alliance system only allows for a total of 1200 players in any given alliance with all the guilds putting their points into player cap increases

[@mattmason8474]

@@SuperBlackatude The in game systems don't matter when communities exist outside of the games. You don't need to be an official alliance to come to the aid of another guild. It will require more resources like making your own wardec, but it's possible.

[@lemonpics24]

@@TheToledoTrumpton they'll still play, game is still fun, and that's part of what makes it fun. Prooperly coordinated large guilds and groups are going to be able to compensate as necessary. Don't see any issue with this approach, and hope it stays. Underdogs actually have a chance, and guilds have to actually be led by competent strategists to succeed at scale, not just streaming buffoons.

[@Dwarfurious]

sorry what? A large guild has more people and more territory. Having more people literally helps them in this situation because they havemore body's more eyes and ears in more places

[@balancebreaker1561]

I love how Pirate Software wants to forcibly have that thumbnail character but fails cuz theres only one face he can make and its the one that looks like someone took a shit on his face 😂

[@sawmanUK]

ahhhh finally, some actual Ashes of Creation content 👌

[@wahidahmad2577]

Why don't you just make one yourself? 4Head

[@eh298]

its the only content AOC has

[@garsux6065]

I don't think Feds make a distinction (nor should they) with the biggest faction on the server. Now Mr. Thor may try to play the victim but he had no problems with trying to obliterate a small guild for "stream sniping" and using their one bad apple as an excuse to be unreasonable. The other day I joined Feds in a 17 caravan convoy a lot of pirates showed up and proceeded to promptly get their cheeks clapped from Steelbloom all the way to Joeva. Sure 2 caravans were lost and a few others were having huge problems with bugs but all in all it was a successful run (and this was a Saturday peak time)... Now my views and opinions don't represent the leadership of feds so I am just speaking from my account and personal experience... but fighting pirates with feds have been a great experience and the toxicity level in it is non-existent.

[@karkic5556]

As a pirate from the other side we had a great time with this fight as well. Finding spots to stall or just finding ways to pick players off was fun.

[@garsux6065]

@karkic5556 it was great fun, brother... and I look forward for more run-ins with your crew

[@jefflukey123]

@@garsux6065this right here is what makes gaming great. No hard feelings; just vibes and love of the game. Peak.

[@Fae_Viking_Princess]

he didn't put apex order KOS because of stream sniping. He put them on KOS because of all their actions afterwards.

[@Ghovochez]

​@Fae_Viking_Princess Exactly. He stated that he had no problem fighting them in game, it became a problem once they tried mass reporting him to try and get him banned from the game. They only became KOS once they took the in game fight personally.

[@kristohOSRS]

Hey Nyce, thanks for the video and the interesting topic. I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it already, but the zerg issue has been mostly solved already by Albion Online. There is a "disarray" mechanic, where all groups participating in a fight will receive a debuff. The more people you have, the more stacks you have. If your group has higher stacks than the other group, your entire group will deal less damage to them as well as reduced CC durations. It's not perfect and there really isn't a perfect solution, but it works quite well. There are also "bomber" groups, who flank zergs and delete entire back lines through syngerizing abilities together. This mechanic has essentially incentivized big guilds to run smaller groups for ZvZ (zerg vs zerg) fights. Heck, even before the mechanic was implemented, one way we annoyed the crap out of zerg guilds was to camp the roads leading to the zone their fight was in and picking the stragglers off one by one. I think Intrepid could grab a lot of inspiration from Albion regarding this issue and it could save them from having to reinvent the wheel.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

OOOOh this is an interesting play... hmm thank you. Im gonna look into this

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

Jokes on Ferret Boy aside (If you know the story of Figtree, You know) : I think skill it's self can often be a natural deterrent to Zergs. Most Zergs in any game, including Pirates own Zerg, are rarely any good. Their main tactic is usually just swarming and on the whole, when you break them down on a user by user bases, they aren't very good. Smaller groups of legitimately skilled players are usually enough to reign Zergs in. The problem right now however is the game might still be too new for many of these groups to exist. That being said, making Fast-Travel less reliable is a step in the right direction. It doesn't matter how skilled you are if you're going up against a never ending wave. The only real limiting factor is the attention span of the Zerg it's self. By making Fast-Travel less reliable, you're playing against Zergs. Anything that doesn't drop you basically directly on top of the other players is going to be pretty much useless to a Zerg, you're never going to get them coordinated long enough for any kind of a long march. Even Ferret Boy has limited control over his own Zerg Guild, usually it's just point them in a rough direction and hope the majority follow.

[@JessieBlood-bh4yg]

It sounds like the eve online corporate system

[@tsipher]

I'm playing on the Vyra server in Genesis and we have encountered the Guild War problem. Guilds like Barcode and Polar were waging wars on small guilds and crafting guilds (like my own) and there wasn't anything the main Genesis Guild could do about it. We've had to rely on other means to protect our crafters such as leaving Alt characters in the Guild and our mains Guildless to complete our crafting wants. I would think that an Alliance system would be put into place so that if a Guild does declare war on a smaller guild of a bigger guild that all Guilds within that alliance would also go to war. Or at the very least, declaring war on a small guild should render PvP combat outside of the town, this would prevent a lot of new players to a guild from getting killed as a result.

[@ferocious_pooh]

The 300 won and all lived happily basking in the glory of their resounding victory. Yep, that's definitely what happened.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@ferocious_pooh this is what I was hoping 🙏

[@gfitness6401]

@@Nyce-Gaming nope they all died in glory

[@kyleaday365]

Being on the opposite side of a zerg and not having numbers is a lot less fun than people make it out to be, it gets old very fast. Especially in a game where getting killed makes you lose experience.

[@Lamacide]

True all the people d riding Thor don’t know how horrible it will be to deal with actual pirates in game. If you don’t play nice by their rules they will swarm you and have a horrible time. I plan on playing rogue and killing and trash talking this guild. Only way to play will be a stealth character or you will be kill on site with no way to fight back aside from opportunity but having a lot of experience in these games the Zerg assembles fast because the member never get to express skill so any win via Zerg is the best they can feel.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@kyleaday365 yup it’s definitely not for everyone and some don’t realize that until they are in that situation or join

[@maxdrax9946]

+ where is the benifit of not achieving any goals as a member of small guild

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@maxdrax9946 it’s all perspective honestly. Bad examples I know but if I’m struggling on a boss in Elden Ring that most beat solo and I call 3 friends to beat it, I don’t get that since if achievement . If I’m the animal husbandress for my guild to get mounts and there’s only maybe 2 of us I feel special. They know me by name. They help me in return. The benefit will NEVER be efficiency , the benefit is socially and in satisfaction

[@Daniel-p1h]

thank you for making actually relevent and interesting content and not hopping on the latest drama train.

[@Nazgull2k1]

The Roach King will live in infamy forever!

[@Zaku14CK]

Nice vid. Probably the first vid yet that made me want to play this game.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Zaku14CK this genuinely means a lot. Kind words

[@psycho-phobic]

Great video Nyce! Yeah some systems still need more work and can be frustrating. But Suspect has been having fun with what we can. Thanks for the PvP around that carvan btw!

[@BourbonsVegas]

This actually explained the reason most are concerned. What this said broken down was, yes, a smaller guild can be the little hornets' nest you step within at times, but you will never be anything other than this in this game if you stay small and the game is a big as expected. So, in order to ever see the full game and what that can offer you... you either must join a zerg or be happy just being that little bee sting that get swatted down and never has the potential for anything bigger... Now we also understand that it is what it is in the world we live in now adays.

[@theknightwhosaysoh]

Isn't it possible for smaller guilds to ally against larger ones? In my opinion, in a social sandbox mmo like ashes, players are most limited by whether or not they are willing to work together. Plus I think some of the decisions Intrepid have made, like limiting fast travel, will help immensely. But I'm most interested in what you said about not being able to see the full game. What parts of the game would smaller guilds be barred from?

[@tompc17]

@@theknightwhosaysoh Let's say thor's guild overall have 2/3rds of a servers population. At that point, even if all other members of the servers banded together, they still would only be 1/3 of the server fighting against 2/3rds of the server. So, still the minority. Also, having guilds that don't know anything of each other deciding to work together against a common enemy is a very difficult and unlikely thing. It takes a lot of management to get that many people together, and if they are not even part of the same guild then politics can get really complicated. Finally, regarding the "barred" from certain content. I would assume large zerg guild could monopolize world bosses, some end game dungeons, resources, etc. People keep saying that the map of ashes is going to be SO HUGE it will minimize or even negate the zerg guild issue. I find that very hard to believe, but time will tell. I think the zerg guild will eventually get bored and try to conquer more territory. I suppose at that point the argument could be that they will be stretched too thin to defend everything? Maybe.

[@Nazgull2k1]

Ahhh a fresh video about the Roach King! bwahahahahaha

[@gentlemanroguefelz3493]

Considering this video was launched prior to the events of that Onlyfangs wipe.

[@supermercado6848]

I also feel like Zerg guilds might not be as big of an issue when the FULL map is out. It would be way to difficult to coordinate taking over THAT much space. It's a bigger issue because we are crammed into just the riverlands, but even you mentioned how it was already difficult to react and coordinate in that "small" of a space.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@supermercado6848 agreed. If it’s that tough to coordinate just with one or so biomes, then the full map will make response times insane. Especially once the next continent is added

[@SinisterPlauges]

lmfao wishful you are, stupid you may be.

[@Aerroon]

Plenty of games have had PvP like this before, often with lower stakes involved. What happened to them? The zergs took over. But it's also a self-correcting problem: if the zergs impact the game too much then people that aren't part of the zerg will just stop playing, thus they won't care about that zerg anymore. Also, this is a discussion about people just playing the game normally. But we all know that games like this are gonna have lots of cheaters and exploiters on top of the zerg problem. I think putting so much emphasis on PvP is asking for suffering. It's cool at first, but then will get old over time.

[@lightenlynx]

Ashes of Creation: the MMO that is not even born yet, and is already old.

[@TheDirtypirate360]

Battle of attrition. If you’re fighting a larger guild attacking the money and pve players forces the leadership to the table to end the war over time. Attacking individual guilds full of crafters and merchants is smart by the federation. Makes the Zerg guilds members vocal in the community and upset and in turn they’ll leave and find guilds with less of a target on their back.

[@ANiCKiN]

This guy is collecting all the "situations"

[@Mark-sd4hv]

So he's made a zerg guild? And try to acts morally superior to everyone?

[@drumice]

when I walk around and see the "Actual Pirates LVI" guild tag 🤣🤣. Love the fact that you streamers are generating so much interest in this alpha.

[@Themetabreaker]

Great Video! Really well edited and the music choices pace your video really well. Kept me engaged from start to finish, it's no wonder you've achieved such a large amount of subscribers! Nyce! On the topic of Federation and Pirates--there's a little bit of bias and misleading information on Thor's behalf. Thor is in fact the one who started the war by blacklisting fed members over a competitive mob tagging situation in RoS early on in the server's lifespan. Within about 3-4 days of it going live, he pitted his guild against The Federation. Not just the few members he had a problem with, but the entire guild--things like disallowing any pirates member from grouping with Fed members, which led to pug groups falling apart on the server. The way he described the war between these two guilds to you seems a little bit disingenuous, almost as if Fed is being toxic and pricking at his guild just for the sake of being toxic. There have only been 4 total war decs on the server, and Fed has never specifically targeted crafters in the Pirates' guild. In addition to this, if you were to do so, and loot that player's body--you would flag, and the opposing mega guild (regardless of whether they've been decced) could easily just all gang up on you in town, along with guards, and get the mats back. It's kind of a fake new story about what has been happening that paints a picture of toxicity. Long story short, Thor is the one who initiated the guild war, and he's done a phenomenal job of spreading misinformation about how Fed behaves on the server, painting the guild as "the villain," but most guilds on the server have been taking a bandit stance/SYNDICATE playstyle, and his guild's caravans have been getting attacked constantly while he plays Classic Hardcore WoW. I don't know anything about people calling him out for his career at blizzard or anything like that, but unfortunately, when you put yourself on the world stage like Thor has, you invite that type of criticism, so while I'm not privvy to it, he should get used to it if he's going to call in 40 people to attack solo caravans in a PvX game. People will retaliate, and they will target you as a streamer with 14000+ viewers. Not expecting this is kind of naive on his behalf. Here's the spot in his VOD where it all began, with one of our officers asking him in say chat to split the mobs with them, and then him saying they were being toxic: www.twitch.tv/videos/2334055735?t=07h53m37s At this point, we've just chalked it up to him wanting more content for his stream and using us as villains, it's whatever 🤷 We try not to engage in the baiting and a lot of their members are very respectful, and we've had many very fun PvP engagements with them over massive 12+ trains of caravans. It's been a blast.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

thank you so much for this comment. I’m literally just now seeing it cause KZbin had it held in ‘waiting for approval’ cause the link in the comment. really appreciate this and glad Fed did not back down and am having fun. here’s to the resistance dude! 🫡

[@lynpotter6471]

I enjoy fighting the big guys, but I want to have a ghost of a chance in it. I'll even take partial wins. But if it's completely decided from the start, I don't really want to put my whole heart in it.

[@YouAreAsleep]

The only spawn camping I know of is when we are attacking a caravan and someone that marked themselves as an attacker looted our bodies. I only heard about this and was not part of the raid. But it will be on one of PirateSoftware’s VODs from last weekend.

[@Skeeters_Lint]

Once systems build out and there's a real alliance system in game that is the defense/offense against zergs like Actual Pirates that smaller guilds will have, hopefully they get this in game soon to make it easier to combat them.

[@Skeeters_Lint]

Honestly, I think the guild war scrolls should go away and if you want to pvp another guild you suck it up that your going to get corruption on both sides of the conflict. Since there are no factions in Ashes the scrolls make pvp guilt free (and at this time easily exploitable when there multiple guilds) when in fact there should be penalties for pvping. But that's just my opinion as an ex Archeage player, which Ashes is heavily based on.

[@Skeeters_Lint]

As an example if you purple up on me and I defend myself the corruption is on you, if you gank me and I come back with more guildies and then purple up on you then the corruption is on us if your not flagged anymore, that way there are consequences on both sides

[@Risu1177]

A zerg guild in any game that dominates a server kills that server. You either join the zerg and be bored or change servers.

[@MegaRamster]

as an outsider that just finding this game now, I wish they would implement a good "alliance" system that can combat some zerg tactics, or at the very least give the illusion of combating it

[@gyraxxus12]

Hypothetically, a zerg guild having "ten seperate guilds" in order to access all the best guild perks could also be viewed as an avenue for rifts to form from within the said 'family' of guilds such as rebellions against the main 'leader' - I think Steven alluded to this in the video. See it as like an empire dissolving. Just something to consider. EDIT: Could Intrepid implement a "vassal" system between guilds that allow access to certain perks but also come with cons? I know I'm speaking broadly but hopes this might stimulate more discussion.

[@Jordan_C_Wilde]

As a non MMO player, watching this is like seing a brawl of 900 crackheads in the street, shaking my head and then going on my merry way to increase my factorio output by 0.001% for the next 15 houres.

[@VoiceULove]

If Pirates is 3500 players strong, all that means is that they will dominate a server. That's 500 players in 7 different map locations. You're not going to compete with that. They will most likely control every metropolis and castle, which gives them access to all 10 flying mounts. So, what can AoC, Intrepid and Steven do to combat it? Probably nothing to be honest. Although, that server will probably lose the majority of it's opposition which will basically turn into a PvE server, lol.

[@valfreyaaurora4922]

Pirates are aware of their ability to dominate the server and choose to NOT do that and stay in their one node of Halcyon. They recognize that it would be unhealthy for the server if they did such a thing. Thor and Kronos have talked about such on their stream.

[@lemonpics24]

@@valfreyaaurora4922 LOL, if recent fights on the server (and the whining by Pirates from the fights and the drama), it's more likely the reality is they aren't organized enough to actually control the server. Attempting to do so would spread them thinner, and they're already crying/playing the victim if this drama is accurate.

[@VoiceULove]

@@valfreyaaurora4922 I was talking about official launch servers. I can see them being nice about it while in Alpha 2, but once the game launches, I'm almost certain the gloves will come off.

[@valfreyaaurora4922]

@@lemonpics24 That's probably true about the organization - its hard to keep that many people together in any kind of cohesion. I'm not on the alpha currently - you referring to the federation war decs mentioned here? or something else? If the war-decs, that mechanic may not be perfectly balanced but honestly makes sense as an anti-zerg mech, lol. I do think it's fair that the other pirate guilds can't assist and may require them to do some reconfiguring to protect their crafters and newbies. This type of mechanic existed in archeage too and it is a way to have diplomacy and war - and picking on people until they leave the guild was a strategy in AA as well. If pirates is too large and too segmented to defend from war-decs, it sounds like it's their problem to figure out.

[@Frosty_Tips_]

​@@valfreyaaurora4922 It seems like War Decs are the only real balance currently in Alpha that does a meaningful impact to a zerg guild like Actual Pirates, like @tylenolrx7699 commented above, if you're Pirates and you have 40 sub guilds, that means you have to find 40 guild leaders who will actually be actively playing so that they can click the button to surrender and end the War Declarations and prevent the death of their crafters in town. They don't have that and so as we see in Alpha, the war dec stays in place and the members in those guilds get killed in town. Over time multiple guilds could pick away at Actual Pirates like this and their members will leave. But War Decs alone aren't going to be enough, one solution a wealthy streamer like Thor could do for Actual Pirates is instead of having to find 40 real life daily active players to be one of his 40 sub-guild leaders, he could just buy 40 accounts and he could name each of his alt accounts the guild leader and then he'd be able to quickly log into any of them to end a war declaration. So at this point i'm nervous and eager to see what Ashes will come out with to further prevent 1000 man guilds from just setting up dozens of 50 man sub-guilds.

[@666evo666]

Imagine asking an Eve online player if Zerg guilds are a problem =D, They can't see the forest for the Trees so you will never get the answer every one else can see except them.

[@MordimersChessChannel]

"Not everyone has character to be in small guild" - that's eufemism. I remember I played Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. On my Asian server it was slightly unbalanced at start on one side, that 2 biggest guilds rerolled to opposite faction and we had the best 6 months of PVP-ing, siegeing, raiding, ambushing, etc... then the game started to become unpopular, servers started to be merged with American ones... and then we experienced shock. On their servers 90% OF PEOPLE were rolling bigger faction! We were just flooded! We were running 2 warbands, they were running 10, lol... so they were sacking our capital every 2nd day, looting last tier gear, become even stronger, and stronger, and stronger... until most people on our side got bored and they killed last server and the game, lol :D

[@jothewizard]

Something that also wasnt spoken about is that often times large guilds fracture for a lot of reasons. Bigger guilds are also a bigger target. Their caravans will have more lucrative loot and be more high rick with high reward kind of thing. Smaller guilds will want to constantly pick off those caravans. These are two of the things of thought of while watching this. Great video!

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

You're talking about actual big Guilds, not Zergs. You may get a few people defending caravans for a Zerg Guild, but on the whole the lion's share of that Zerg aren't going to bother with it. Hell, you might even see some of them not know it's their caravan in the first place and try to attack it. I mention that because I've seen similar things happen in other MMO's, Zergs typically start to implode due to lack of basic coordination and ever declining skill levels. They're an issue when a game first starts off and everyone is basically on the same level, but as time goes on and people get better and better at the game, that's when you start to notice the Zergs diminishing return more and more.

[@HT-jj5sx]

Legit awesome video, really well balanced. Personally I think mega-guilds are bad for the game, it'll drive people off servers, there is a reason that Eve Online has about 4k people that play it and it never changes. It's odd that Thor doesn't seem to understand that the issues with the GW scrolls isn't just about big guilds, it's about all guilds really. Lets hope they figure it out, I think a restriction of the alliance system could end these problems before they begin. However, it's hard to get much done at all right now with all the exploiting on the servers :/

[@allthatishere]

Only 4k people are playing Eve Online? Is that a factual statement? You think everyone is multiboxing 10 toons?

[@HT-jj5sx]

@ I just looked at the steam charts for the last year.

[@allthatishere]

@@HT-jj5sx Please don't troll me, dude.

[@HT-jj5sx]

@@allthatishere all you gotta do is look at the steam charts dude. I did some additional research and I understand the launcher has a higher number. However, it seems to be pretty well understood that the actual human count is much, much lower.

[@Sub-zp2gs]

@@HT-jj5sx Eve has separate launcher from steam, so steams numbers probably are not even close to 80% accurate

[@moosegamer8189]

I'm hoping to join a guild when the game goes live, it's always hard for me to get into an Alpha/Beta hardcore knowing there is a wipe, even though I'm in the current alpha. Would follow you Nyce, your New World tank 1vX videos and Necro ESO videos are pure joy.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@moosegamer8189 this really means a lot Moose 🥹

[@Erik-bb3ci]

I'm with you brother. A few friends of mine are going to be attempting the same thing as you. Small tight knit group or brotherhood for lack of better words. Militia tactics and death by 1000 cuts. Seiging will need some strategy and temporary alliances to form Tho. Perhaps a band of like minded guilds for these occasions. Call it the resistance! Lol Unfortunately to many people are sheep in todays society and just follow the crowd. We are a niche group inside of a niche game lol

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Erik-bb3ci well said. Love this comment. FOR THE RESISTANCE!!!

[@xBloodXGusherx]

Ark Mega Tribes all over again.. However I am interested in seeing how all this goes as I am used to fighting Mega Guilds.

[@heartless_gamer]

Not what I expected when I clicked considering all the other drama lately so was a nice surprise of a video.

[@maxdrax9946]

Pirates words regarding small guilds still being able to have their fun looks good on paper but let's see what will ppl in small guilds think about it after 2-3 months of constantly being nuked.

[@PWNHUB]

Not hating, but wouldn't the name Syndicate be way more of an appropriate name for "Actual Pirates" and not a small guild working together? I think of the old movies and The Syndicate is like saying the powers that be, implying overwhelming power and influence.

[@cdubyaxvi3614]

Excellent coverage.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@cdubyaxvi3614 appreciated

[@C0mm0nS3ns3]

Syndicate from UO or some new age bs guild?

[@Leowing5]

I hate streamers with massive impact.. This is ruining fun

[@Chonobataar]

It's a good thing. Zergs often create difficulty for other communities, who either bow down or they form coalitions against the zerg. This is a very positive thing. Conflict and Cooperation.

[@Broosh]

I feel like this is one of the foundations of the game where players will slowly start to say "I'm not sure this game is actually for me." PVP is a core mechanic, things like this will happen. There will be large guilds that control things, and there will be smaller guilds that either have to deal with it or politic with other guilds to make a change. I don't anticipate Steven (or Intrepid as a whole) changing anything in the game that would promote (or sway) a certain play style.

[@SinisterPlauges]

and that will kill the game lol.

[@samscharenbroch9696]

@@SinisterPlauges Why would it kill the game? Games like Albion Online and Eve have existed for literally decades and they're not your normal run of the mill MMO. Believe it or not you don't need millions of players to turn a profit in the MMO genre, you just need a dedicated fan base that believes in your vision and believes in you. That's what Intrepid Studios is fostering, they've stated CONSTANTLY that this game won't be for everyone and that's okay, but they aren't moving from their vision.

[@Lepidopter1]

​@@samscharenbroch9696 Albion has safe zones where you cannot be PVP'd in. Once they solve the issue of newbies and PvErs being killed in town I'll agree with you

[@konkats-tg7pf]

yeap the first castle siege will/must be asmon vs pirate minions....intrepid cook for us....

[@keith4776]

On Lyneth and props to thor who has effectively ended toxic behavior like training in POI's. But also the war between federation and pirates is kind of crazy and i don't see an issue with the current system. If you split your guild apart that is on you. You can also respond by declaring war back on their crafting guilds which is what pirates strategy seems to be. It's a war of attrition. Which I'm not in either guild so just a bystander.

[@brandondeavilla3298]

I mean… the Pirates seem to be complaining about war against their crafting guild, but also, I don’t see how anyone is supposed to see Actual Pirates XVIV and know what the purpose of that guild is. Sounds like a leadership problem to me.

[@SuperTimeStretch]

@@brandondeavilla3298 Actual Pirates II and III are the crafting guilds

[@brandondeavilla3298]

@@SuperTimeStretch How is anybody supposed to know that?

[@SuperTimeStretch]

@@brandondeavilla3298 Because I just told you

[@MostCoolestName]

i personally think zerg guilds will be the death of this game and there should be a rule against it. make an alliance system that you have to send tributes back and forth to maintain an alliance or something.

[@eatdirt3366]

The Fed v Pirate war was decided by looking in town determining what pirate guild had most in town. Just looking for numbers not to grief crafters.

[@OGParzoval]

Anyone want an object lesson of what pvp guilds do to a MMO just look at New World. They literally drive the playerbase away and AGS knows it's an issue, but refuses to do anything about it.

[@Sub-zp2gs]

AGS drove players away before any large PvP guilds did, New World was bad from the beginning and I wasted 1500 hours on it lol,

[@Filip-xx9lj]

​@Sub-zp2gs how can you call a game you've spent 1500h on bad

[@jaygerlach6884]

sometimes in pvp, people may forget to actually have fun, and take things entirely too seriously.

[@3v3rb0t]

Is the Alpha still purchasable?

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@3v3rb0t correct. See pinned comment, link in description, or ashes of creation website

[@rogueofennui]

Pretty sure phase 3 is. Won’t start for a few months but should still be available.

[@valfreyaaurora4922]

@@rogueofennui pretty sure you can still buy in to phase 2

[@PiriPiri_01]

Happy that you didn't jump on the dogpile with recent drama and just kept making normal videos. Good on you man. The pivot at the start of the video gave me a laugh. Large guilds like this have always been my biggest fear for the game and it sound like Steven and Thor are both echoing what is a pretty insignificant fix for the issue; just band up and beat them. Issue with this is it still doesn't alleviate the primary issue in that the larger guild will have control of the world for larger periods of time than an alliance due to obvious organization advantages that larger guilds have. I don't mind the best guild having control of the best node most of the time, but I do have issues with the best guild having control over a significant portion of the world. I also have issue with the best guild having control of the best nodes 90% of the time. The scenarios where the whole server bands up to take out the larger guilds DOES happen, but they are always very short lived and that control goes back to the zerg guild within a war or two and they maintain that 90% of time control. This isn't "competitive", it's just zerging. Every other decently popular modern multiplayer game has player caps on competitive PVP for a good reason, and that's to keep it competitive. Luckily Actual Pirates being in the game should help give feedback well before the game is launched, I just hope Steven responds to it since I know he likes organizing zerg guilds himself.

[@DoggyP00]

It's just so weird how zerging and killing on sight for no reason is perfectly fine, but suddenly when the smaller guild retaliates with intended mechanics it's going "too far"

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

It's just Figtree being Figtree. That's his MO. He cries about shit all the time.

[@Shoibyrd]

I think the thing is; every server will be and so far are very different from one another. At launch this define will be even greater. Pirates won't even be the only large guild then. There are other larger streamers who sre waiting. This was the same with Archeage.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

Don't forget he worked at Blizzard. He just thought you should know that.

[@ZapatosVibes]

War declaration seems to be in a very scuffed state at the moment. There should be at least a small amount of time between war deck and actual war start, otherwise it's just a gankfest in town/lowbies to score easy points without any counterplay. Tbh, node town centers should be PVP-immune zones to prevent griefing anyway.

[@ONEMADKILLERx]

I am totally against guilds as big as the "Actual Pirates". Zergs are a big problem and kill servers. Alot of the time you will have a big zerg expand until no one can compete with them and then the rest of the server will stop engaging in PvP content. Then you have guilds ducking and transferring servers.

[@Wedcakskacdew]

Enjoy the content Nyce, but they spend plenty on marketing, definition of a showcase my man.

[@coryoneil5064]

Great video. You just gained a subscriber. .

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@coryoneil5064 thank you !

[@BirthrightGaming]

As always, nyce video man!

[@sloppiipapi5648]

I don't care. I've played a billion and 1 full loot pvp games unless it's old as shit. massive zergs are just apart of it and they are hard af to organize. there are weak links stragglers. they split for objectives. Like he said small elite teams and you pick at them. You play for speed and insta clap and you can take minor victories over and over.

[@nerotvwow3733]

I'm not good at math but 3k people is more than 350

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@nerotvwow3733 very good math

[@Healindawolf]

part of the problem with a zerg guild is yeah your elite guild can pick off a fw caravans but you are taking 3 or 4 of hundreds and not everyone is going to be skilled enough to take those caravans or want to go to the effort of fighting them, there is also going to be the siege system for nodes to take down the higher lvl node from the surrounding ones for something like that a very large portion of the zerg guild is going to show up and you would need a lot of players to take that even if they are elite players. also I don't see a real problem with the federation targeting crafters and the ability to go after specific pirates guilds in safe zones where their allis cant help is not a flaw in the system its to prevent the exact thing that is going on and there be 50 guilds in an alliance together and with the guild progression system being a choice of bigger guild or buffs I can see people just making a bunch of guilds be in an alliance and take buffs only instead of increasing guild size and being in one guild

[@travisparkel9619]

My guild and I tried to avoid the pirates however we were forced back on to their server because of connection issues on Vyra at launch

[@isth3reno1else]

Syndicate gaming 😎

[@phalron_irl]

So Thor declared war on the Federation, and now complains about it. All the Actual Pirate guilds are numbered with roman numerals so there is absolutely no way of know which is for new members or crafters. That's the choice he and his leadership made. Kind of crazy saying "nobody can fight back" when it's a system that literally allows everyone in that guild TO fight back. They holler "PvP/PvX" until they're on the receiving end, and then it's not balanced or a bad system. As for the gloating and personal insults, I have never seen any. What I have seen are known Fed members defending themselves against the 3000+ members of Pirates (plus the Pirate sympathizers) who decide to talk down at Feds in global because of stuff like this that Thor says. Want to talk about toxic? Imagine talking to your entire viewership (15,000 concurrent, not individual viewers), like how he did in his comments here, about a guild that is a fraction of your size because you declared war (ALL of your guilds) on them and they're actually fighting you. That is straight up toxic.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@phalron_irl very interesting. Getting Fed’s side of things for a future video

[@skafftaruss]

Very nice pivot from the Narc controversy. I still believe that Bounty Hunters is a great balance to PVP grieving, ganking, and ZERGs. There ought to be a strict code of gaming behavior to Bounty Hunters. We'll see if Pirate's can break the Bounty Hunters. I paraphrase Asmongold - PVP are dependent on PVE: Uber Gear versus people that make the gear. Much love, Skaff.

[@blktauna]

Bounty hunters is great for the hunters but the initial victims are still s.o.l. The griefing is my issue.

[@Drunkninja101]

Really good video and perspective.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Drunkninja101 thanks Ninja

[@sadjy]

Dope vid as always Nyce, great topic and analysis. I'm trying to create a similar guild than yours (quality over quantity).

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@sadjy this is the way. Good luck!!!

[@pewpin1039]

I used to play very PvP oriented mmos the likes of GW 1, Age of Conan, Ragnarok online, Warhammer online... Zergs were fine, imbalance between factions was ok BUT, that was under the condition that bottlenecks never formed. In age of conan my server had 3 large guilds, all 3 very pvp oriented. And still you would see so many players without a guild, just messing about. Because you actually could pick people off, and sneak past player blocades. In comparison there was warhammer online. Where a large power imbalance formed. I was with my friends on the underdog side... and it was a lot less fun. The pvp areas had clear points of interest that had to be captured, there was nothing open about it, and the larger flood would win 19/20 times. The point I am trying to make is, that as long as there are reasonable objectives small teams can achieve, a zerg guild can be fine. As long as you do not provide them focused points of interest of great importance that everyone would want to contest for.

[@TheMotitaNEWS]

I really hope to play Aoc one day 😭 looks so promising!

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@TheMotitaNEWS the vision for this game is inspiring

[@Koshak87]

12:45 why wont Pirates with all their resources and manpower spare 3-4 guilds to do the same to the Feds?

[@dissidius13]

Pirate is vindictive and he hated one player on the Feds because he killed him 1 time. Very petty while masking it as just for content. Backfired on his face afterwards, though 😂

[@Snowshill]

a way to combat guilds having lots of small ones with the power buffs instead of taking the size ones is with a PvP flaging system with each guild having its own flag if two alied guilds try and defend a caravan they end up accidentaly hitting one another with friendly fire this would force the use of guild size perks and engage with the aliance system, sure this would still be soemthign you can work around but then adimin issues get evern worse than they already are needing more resorces, and from the way the ashes team talk this sounds like thats how its going to be or soemthing similar

[@valfreyaaurora4922]

Interesting tho - isn't Lynnth less toxic than the others?

[@falscher2]

yep, in part because a large part of the server seems to be quiet....

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@valfreyaaurora4922 I’d say so

[@TheToledoTrumpton]

As much as people are excited for the mechanics of Ashes of creation, the actual vision for the "Game" built from those mechanics isn't very good. The concept of long grind PvE, with hardcore consequential PvP runs contrary to all game theory, because it provides zero security for investment in the game, very slow payoff, and a brutally penal steep negative spiral for losing/setbacks. In a game of leagues, short battles, or where you start fresh every game, it isn't a huge problem, in an MMO, if you rage-quit from the battle, you rage quit from the game forever. I think, at this stage, there is a lot they can do, but in general they need to somehow insure that ALL players total rewards and positive hits, massively exceed the total losses and negative hits (ideally there should be none!). Trying to do this with a "Player Driven Economy", particularly a meritocratic one, seems impossible. There must be many game designers laughing their heads off at Intrepid's amateurish ignorance. In any competitive game, the trick is keeping the losers playing, not keeping the winners playing. So like losing a battle in a battle game, you still earn XP, just not as much as if you had won. The idea that someone is going to be a citizen of a "Vassal Node" for any time at all, is laughable! Making a sim of real life isn't making a good game. As I say, the mechanics and world they have created for the game to exist in is magnificent, but their concept for the game itself, is worthy of ridicule. They need to get a professional game designer in ASAP, or Steven has to start learning and lose his ego, extremely quickly. My biggest hope is that all the stuff they have added, will go into UE6, and a game designer will pick it up and make a good game out of it.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@TheToledoTrumpton weirdly enough I think that risk and consequence is what separates AOC in the mmo genre. We have so many MMOs that are more forgiving and while it may indeed be a niche, I feel a lot of gamers are waiting for something like this. However I agree it needs some tweaks especially to the leveling experience

[@TheToledoTrumpton]

​@@Nyce-Gaming It may sound good, but an MMO needs the players that lose the game to keep playing. Let's take the Vassal Node idea. Sounds great if you are the Node doing the Vassaling. What about the 200 players in the node that just got vassalled. What is the route back from that? Do they keep playing, and put up with diminished game-play and opportunities for a month or 6, or are they supposed to go and spend 6 weeks to 6 months building another node for the semi-professionals to vassal? Or do 200 players just quit playing the game. Or more likely still, they don't play the game in the first place. Ashes is a hardcore game for a very small pool of hardcore MMO players. Right now I cant see people playing it, without a professional real money-making side to it. It is going to be hard work, not R&R.

[@jaygerlach6884]

not to mention, these kind of games require a significant active population to succeed.

[@TheToledoTrumpton]

@@jaygerlach6884 And to have a active population you have to make sure everybody who plays enjoys it, win or lose. If they want to make the game hardcore it cant be for everyone playing and not right from the start. I think they have to work far more on the actual game. The vision for the playing field is fantastic, they just need to sort out what game we are going to play on it.

[@Stevekitty2369]

11:06 id go with whatever. But if i ran into a issue like pirate's guild issue just make a pact with other guilds. Id think that would be more fun. Itd have alot of RP potential or emersion. So somthing else to work for ya know?

[@travisparkel9619]

The way I feel is that there is a guild cap for a reason... I think Steven should do something about these multi guilds if the guild cap being 50 is meaningless then why is it even there to begin with

[@Sub-zp2gs]

Well one, is to help Balance the thing talked about in the video, guild wars, if it were meaningless and don't have the cap then the guild wars wouldn't be able to separated the larger guild into equal fights

[@venranava949]

also check out this same issue on Throne and Liberty

[@ervinfejes9942]

I dont have alpha acess but i follow the development as i can. This zerg stuff could be a potetntional problem. But i think the future gatekeeping too. The game is only in alpha and yetw too many ppl playing it, there are too meny early guides(FOR AN ALPHA GAME xD) etc. When the game will relse i think the gatekeeping lvl will be freaking HIGH. Simply if an alpha/beta veteran guild chose a server im 100% that they gonna dominate the whole ecosystem and the server itself. The devs still have time to make it right but if a couple big zerg guilds are able to dominate whole servers then the average players will suck hard.

[@StepCrow]

I’m sorry but I WILL NOT play on a server with someone(s) who can decide I’m not allowed to play the game anymore. The response to Apex Order showed me exactly what Thor does when someone inconveniences him. I don’t want any of that.

[@andreipotato3828]

The sige wars wil be the real deal when it comes to numbers . If it wasant actual pirates then it would have been another big guild so... Have fun its just a game

[@darknstormyknights]

yall had me in the beginning there lolz 🍿

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@darknstormyknights lmao

[@agogo8861]

already pvp destroying this game and not even out of Alpha.. yea dead game with 100 players in the first year.

[@tylergladys6626]

FED OR DEAD BABY

[@Darkabyss290]

Spending any amount of resources on increasing guild size is utterly pointless when they can just make another guild. The size limit of 50 actually does nothing except vaguely limit how much any one small guild can really get. Anything like the size of Pirates or Federation will feel no drawbacks to the small size and will not care about wasting resources to get a larger size when every other bonus gives a numerical advantage over everyone else.

[@aBrownAmerican]

Man this game sounds awesome I don't have a gaming pc but by the time the game is solid I probably will have one 😂

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@aBrownAmerican lol safe bet

[@Dwarfurious]

large mega guilds are always a problem; even player caps dont work because they just make secondary guilds and everybody has more incentive to join them than to join any other guild

[@PureLanceTea]

I can't wait to start my bard this act I liked ranger but just want something new.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@PureLanceTea 🎶 🎼

[@PawketsArt]

I keep saying it, I actually was looking forward to being on a single server and being forced with Pirates when they said initially 1 server for NA. As a medium sized guild I prefer a mega guild who is controlled and with integrity to help keep larger less "honorable" guilds.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@PawketsArt would’ve been epic

[@Blurghity]

Asymmetrical warfare.

[@edmuenster2436]

One of the pros of ESO PVP was the glass cannon bomb builds. Maybe this game needs a play style or role like that. Ball group with bombs and pulls. Worked well in ESO against zergs. I've seen 10 man groups take out 30+ players in cyrodil. A huge group is harder to manage than a strong compt out group with sustain and damage. Better siege weapons that only small guilds have access to. There are answers to deleting zergs. They just have to figure out what that is. ESO did it. They can.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@edmuenster2436 yessss I really hope we get skills or something that punish stacking. Like damage multipliers by amount of ppl in the aoe

[@VizerPS]

"guilds will have to choose between being bigger or being stronger" is such a joke answer when, as nyce pointed out, guilds will just pick the bonuses for being small and they'll make 200 guilds