O Group: First Play, Part 1 | Storm of Steel Wargaming

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

I made a ton of rules mistakes in this video, but enjoyed playing the game immensely. I will be returning to O Group when time allows in the future, so stay tuned and check out part 2!

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

Being part of a group playing and learning O Group, I think it would be impossible to play early games without making errors or overlooking things. Now we finally found the National rules, listed on each country's Battalion page, for example. It is a tremendous game but there are many little moving parts (eg lose 2 firing dice if moving but lose only 1 dice if moving less than 4") that it takes time on the table, the rule book and the forum to make things come together.

[@vryc]

Command and control and abstraction. Perfect. Those people that are complaining about difficulty of rules (having read through the rulebook twice these a super smooth design overall) and being entirely luck driven have no idea about actual wargaming or what the actual marco level of command is like. Bolt Action or 40K are games. They are not playing in any way the realities and dynamics of warfare and more specifically WW2 warfare. Great vid!

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Indeed, it mirrors friction very well and the abstraction of battalion command, it plays smoothly once you follow the basic tenants and is an exciting and enjoyable game. I wouldn't worry about other people getting upset at how someone wants to play with their toy soldiers TBH.

[@vryc]

It's possible that you're right since I've yet to play 'O' Group. But I have played General D'Armed by the same designer and while that's for Napoleonics, those rules are fantastic for actually playing the period so my current money is on Mr Brown doing more of the same. And like I said, I've read the rules twice and found them very simple and well thought out. What rule set would you suggest is better for a battalion-level WW2 game? I've played Bolt Action which doesn't do a good job of abstracting unit size and doesn't represent the historical period of military doctrines well at all.

[@davidwasilewski]

Personally, I think that the assumption that reality can be captured by shoving toy soldiers around a generally very ‘2d’ board and rolling dice to determine who is ‘dead’ is strange no matter what set of rules you are using. For me (been wargaming ww2 for 40 years and even wrote my own set of rules) it is about the ‘feel’ of the period. It’s all very subjective. I play 40k too very occasionally. There’s a reason why that game probably out sells every other wargame ever so I wouldn’t be too hasty to denigrate it - it is what it is.

[@vryc]

@@davidwasilewski Certainly wasn't denigrating 40K as a fun game. But it's really not trying to model anything which is for the best since Chaos Marines and Orks aren't really a consideration in our reality :)

[@davidwasilewski]

@@vryc you’re right on one level but not at another. I’ve been immersed in the ‘lore’ of the old world and the 40k universe and dungeons and dragons for as long as I’ve been reading books about napoleon, Alexander etc. It is just as possible to ‘re create’ famous battles for those games as it is to re fight Waterloo etc. Of course I know that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Me, I like both. Fantasy and historicals.

[@thestoicsteve]

Thanks for the video Alex. You introduced the game so well, showing the details of so many of the rules. Shows how shockl can mount up and its effects, and that you have to spend orders to get demanding things done. Looking forward to part 2.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers buddy, thank you for that. Yeah, shocks and suppression can really make a mess of your plans if not dealt with, but then of course that means you can't do everything else you want to...

[@mikeleese6694]

I’m enjoying this. Nice clear descriptions 😊

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, be warned though I get quite a lot of the rules incorrect in this video, but it gives you a good idea of overall play.

[@mikeleese6694]

@@StormofSteelWargaming reading rules wrong ha! Join the club. It usually takes a smug 6th former to point it out. The advantage of Solo gaming ;-)

[@chrismikucki9107]

I love that you have already learned this and gotten a couple videos out in the time it took for my parcel to arrive! Amazing!

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers Chris, I did read the PDF whilst waiting or the hard copy as well, so I was ready and waiting to go pretty quickly.

[@jamesianmitchell5242]

Excellent play through I’ve struggled a bit with these rules so seeing them in action has really helped

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, I am glad you've found it useful. I found the rules took a little getting used to and reading them took a while, but once it is on the tabletop they are incredibly simple.

[@bernardgodfrey3499]

I really enjoyed this, well paced and and the rules seem to be well thought out and quick to master. Great stuff, looking forward to the continuation.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, I'm glad you enjoyed it, the next part will be along later this week!

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

I think those making critical posts need to realize two things: 1. as SSW acknowledged he is carefully explaining all the steps for each phase of the game - and that takes time 2. this game covers scouts, fog of war, command and control, uncertainty, and many other advanced concepts - it's designed to let the players make a lot more choices or decisions (allocating reserves, spotting potential ambush areas, etc) than in other rules - and based on David Brown's track record and the amount of time developing these rules, it's likely they will play well as we are able to put it on the table

[@benitoverap]

Great video Alex, very educational, Helps a lot .

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thank you, glad you found it of some use (I do make loads of mistakes though!)

[@thelittlecorporal7613]

Great play through, going to definitely invest in this rule set, both for personal use and for our business to stock. Great video. Great gaming room too - very envious lol

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, I don't think you'll regret it at all, its an excellent set of rules and there's a lot of interest in them at the moment.

[@hanskloss7930]

I was just looking for some reviews and materials on the game today so perfect timing!

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@nigelatter9307]

Hi Alex really helpful video to take us through the rules. Following your dialogue the rules don't seem too complex, which is great. Fire and movement seem simple enough. Shock can, as you demostrate, can have an adverse affect on units. Great stuff - can't wait to get the rules and have a try out.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

You're welcome, glad you enjoyed the video.

[@chriscornwell7383]

Thanks for this Alex, been reading them but it is always so useful to see a set of rules played out. Not likely to get a game with them myself for a while yet. I do have plans though.....

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Glad it was helpful! Don't take this as instructional though, there are plenty of mistakes!

[@chriscornwell7383]

Well, in some ways that can be helpful in itself, makes me go and check stuff for myself- all part of the learning process ....(then I can bask in self satisfied smugness and say to myself “ha! I thought he got that wrong!” ).

[@simonteppett8435]

I have to say you have worked it out very well 👍. When you get the flow going they are great rules.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, yeah, they are easy to hold in your head and after a few turns the basics are pretty simple.

[@philRminiatures]

Always glad to see this kind of gorgeous table...splendid game!

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thanks Phil! I am glad you enjoyed the video and the table!

[@Ian_KH]

Great stuff. Nice and easy to watch. A few mistakes but you said to expect them and I'm sure I'll make more mistakes when I get to play my first game.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers Ian, you can't learn without making mistakes!

[@leonleese4919]

The big advantage of using a German army in 1944/5 is the number of Theatres whereas the Russian army fights the Germans as do the British, Canadian, Americans. Ov course if you have unit flashes and names on your 15mm army you have to paint units particular to theatre. In 1940 the Brits have respirator packs on their chests. The German uniform started to change in 1941 around about the time the Stug.III and IV made a showing with PZKW III & IV sad V . So as a German you will possibly have a choice of different armour for each game. It is fun researching them and you may even get an expert to tell you how nice your models are but they are wrong 🙂 but that’s the fun of the hobby. As a solo player I’ll have to be careful not to spend all my time painting and not get a game in.

[@tabletopgeneralsde310]

Great one Alex, looks like a great ruleset. Good explanations, thanks for getting me another game to play.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Glad you enjoyed it! O Group is a great game and I'm sure you'll enjoy it

[@WARdROBEPlaysWWII]

I really appreciate the overview. I’ve not been interested in it yet, so the more out about it, the better.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

No problem, I'm glad you found it useful either way. I guess it all depends on what level of command you are interested in.

[@chipbrenner9981]

Great video Alex. It gave me a much better understanding of the rules. If you don't mind, where did you get the roads and game mat?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers Chip, I would definitely suggest reading the rules properly as I forgot loads of stuff, but I'm glad it helped! The roads are by Miniature World Maker, based in Australia, but I got them in the UK from Magister Militum and the game mat came from Tiny Wargames, based here in the UK.

[@chipbrenner9981]

@@StormofSteelWargaming Thanks Alex. Really appreciate the information. I enjoyed part 2 as well.

[@johnmichael3740]

You really did a nice job on that video, extremely helpful.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thank you, I am glad it was useful!

[@marcellocolombarini1653]

Great work👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers!

[@BattleBunkerHQ]

Thanks for the video, I’ll look forward to seeing part 2.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, it will be along soon enough, in the next couple of days.

[@Conflict_Boardgaming]

Love these vids! It's almost like watching a movie!

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers buddy! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@nickjennings8757]

Thanks for sharing this vid. Been waiting for these for ages and got my copy and pdf this week. We’ve got a game lined up on Tuesday, via Zoom playing this scenario so this has been a really useful walk through. One question I have is in T1 when the Brit platoons react fire you have penalised them for moving - a thought this only counted if you moved in the same phase as well? As it’s a new phase it seems a disadvantage to have advantage, if you follow my drift?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

I'm glad it was of use for you. Yeah, you're probably right, as I said don't take this as instructional, I make loads of mistakes throughout it.

[@nickjennings8757]

@@StormofSteelWargaming be the same for everyone to start off with, then we’ll all be asking for add ons like smoke grenades, better shooting factors for Lugers and Italian tanks with 5 reverse gears. 😂😂😂. Keep up the great work. Love your videos.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

I did keep forgetting about the 'training' attributes for the British and Germans as well, it would have helped the British advance if I'd used their smoke mortars... Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy the videos!

[@nickjennings8757]

@@StormofSteelWargaming Credit to you. You’re doing it solo, whilst commentating. We can’t get it right when there’s for or five of us sat around a table playing rules we’ve used for years!!! 😂😂

[@billwindslow4440]

Great video Alex, very informative. May I ask what you are using as a battle mat?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers Bill, glad you enjoyed the game and the video. The matt is from Tiny Wargames, it's their standard grass matt.

[@bonddizzle]

Great walkthrough, thank you. Do you have nested bases for your Chain of Command figures when you are switching to O Group, or are they different models?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video! I use the same figures, but these ones were originally based for Rapid Fire. I have a load of single based WW2 figures that I am using more often in CoC as well.

[@bonddizzle]

@@StormofSteelWargaming thank you for the reply. Yes, I think for me, finding a sabot base for 15mm with three men in a row shouldn't be too hard. That way I could do both. I guess for O Group the main thing is having a uniform size for both sides of the engagement.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

@@bonddizzle it is something I considered myself, but already having millions of multiple based figures it didn't seem necessary. It works well for allowing both games to be played, but I have also never had an issue with using multiple based figures in CoC anyway, especially not at 15mm. Even having as uniform size isn't critical for O Group, as long as they in the same ball park. My Soviets have a slightly larger four man base than my three man Germans, for example, mainly cos they were originally, originally based for Grey Storm, Red Steel, which used different sized bases and I never changed them for use in Rapid Fire and now IABSM and CoC and O Group...

[@garrywebb8381]

Just found this... excellent !!

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Enjoy!

[@chrisg9445]

Great video Alex. I like your tokens, what did you do to them please?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers Chris, I just airbrushed them in various colours, then used a ripped sponge to dab Oily Steel and German Camo Black Brown Vallejo paint on as rust and chips.

[@chrisg9445]

@@StormofSteelWargaming great thanks, they look very effective

[@ratelmike8825]

Morning Alex, at my own work bench after a a bit of lay off for August. I think im starting your O Group series in the right place now at the PC rather than on the phone. Looking at going 12mm with the victrix range keeping it separate from my FoW collection. I was looking to order the book as the game straight away appeals, just held back when lardy rich announced colour tokens so just waiting to see if those will be available as the bundle buy. Basing wise for 12mm is it similar to your 15mm? If i understand correctly from another of your videos it is and I can just add more troops to the section bases. Have I got that right?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

There's no basing requirements in O Group, so you could easily use your existing FoW based figures anyway. There's a video on the channel about organising your forces for O group, I think I cover basing on that.

[@JKWARGAMES]

Great insight to o group, we’re did you get your buildings from Many thanks JK

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, I am glad you enjoyed it. I got some of them from various places, but I also scratch built a few of them.

[@Pc-wi2es]

Great video...very instructive...

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thank you!

[@RePriMoWargameTerrain]

Very nice table

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thank you 😊

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

Me again. This scenario video has been up for over a year now and I'm wondering how others have done playing this scenario. Our group played through it and found it almost impossible for the British to win. The combination of German platoons in each of the main town BUAs and the hard to destroy Panther were issues we couldn't overcome. As the frontal armour of the German Tank is a massive 11, even when hit twice by 17 pounders from the Fireflies, we could not damage it. The group did like all the coordination of smoke, armour, small arms and artillery support in the game - and the multiple uses of the Combat Patrols. So, if you have played this mission, how did you find it?

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

If I might be allowed to add to my post, I guess one way for the Brits to win this one is to "ignore" the scenario objective of taking 2 of 4 BUAs in the town, and focus on the Core Game Rule of forcing a defeat by inflicting 12 losses (3 Fubars), as we saw in a later two-player game with Alex on the losing end with the defenders, despite that nasty Panther.

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

Yes, I wondered about that option for the Brits too. Reading on the actual action I found the Howards failed to carry the day against stout defenders, not surprisingly. After a few games when I host I generally reduce the defenders by at least several squads (including at least one full platoon) - and I also give the attackers 10 orders. After all, it's acknowledged defenders needed a 3:1 advantage to reasonably guarantee success, so finding a sweet spot for a balanced game is tricky. I also need to try some meeting engagements where this issue largely goes away.

[@kharizaderis]

I hope you'll make more IABSM aar soon 🤲🙇

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

I will do, I just need more time!

[@peterclarke527]

Thanks for this, but a few comments. Only -1 die firing for any shock. ANY unit with a line of sight can react-fire, so you missed a few opportunities for that. I can't see where the -2 dice for shooting at a combat patrol is. And a react-firing unit doesn't count as moving, even if it moved in the offensive phase.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Cheers, I cleared these up with Christopher Brown the other day, and I did say in the intro that I would make mistakes as I am still learning myself. Firing at Combat Patrols: page 58, in the modifiers table second to last entry.

[@peterclarke527]

I'm just learning the rules myself (obviously!) so it's good to see examples of play. My comments are as much by way of trying to ensure that my understanding is correct. Looking forward to part two>

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

@@peterclarke527 Part two coming soon (possibly tomorrow...)

[@BearGrisham]

Does the rulebook come with army lists and if not how did you go about putting your armies together?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Yes it does.

[@nickjennings8757]

And have you missed the regroup phase at the end of the turn?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Yep, every time...

[@nickjennings8757]

@@StormofSteelWargaming 😂😂 No worries, we’re all on the learning curve.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Friction. 😂😂

[@ThemadTinhatter]

I think you forgot to check if the German's could deploy to combat patrols due to the preliminary bombardment results?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Keep watching, I realised that myself

[@leonleese4919]

For 15mm figures the ground scale is 1mm = 1 meter or 1 yard which is 1/1000 or 1/900 ground scale. The farms and buildings on the table and even the road all look more like 1/100th. scale. This has always been a problem for Wargames. A possible aid to top being the size of a village is to drop the building scale for 15mm figures to 10mm scale for buildings. Which is general practice for Napoleonic 15mm figure games. It’s the only thing that I’ve had to think about. That apart, I’m enjoying playing the game solo which is pretty straight forward using -sit rep- into the move phase. I have no idea what will happen or where anyone is including my own troops. 6 blinds for 3 companies. I even using for the moment a paper table (old wallpaper) and sketching a map to 1/900th so if I’ve got it right the table is 1800 yds X 1200yards using 1/300th buildings. Which looks ok. and I’m using 1p pieces for platoons.

[@get_the_lead_out]

I agree. If you are modeling individual buildings (like for BA or CoC), use the same scale as the minis. If you are modeling BUA’s, drop the building scale. This allows you to make some really nice mini-dioramas for the BUA’s, instead of just throwing buildings onto the table. It also adds to the “zoomed out” feel of this grand tactical game, rather than the “in your face” feel of a skirmish game.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

I'm used to using 15mm scale buildings in battalion level games, such as Rapid Fire, so the size discrepancies don't worry me so much. I just use one building to represent a number of buildings.

[@Oblomovrising]

15 mm WWII !!! Yes ! 👍🏻

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Check out the rest of my videos and you'll see plenty more 15mm WW2!

[@kevinhale9400]

When you corrected yourself when you said TRUCK for jeep, you were incorrect, they were classed as trucks by the Americans. I think they were 1/4 or 1/2 ton trucks.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thank god, I've been waiting three years for that clarification.

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

Interesting at 30 minutes you chose NOT to give the Brit platoon any cover despite the fact they were behind a hedge - of course the rules allow the Gamemaster to stipulate what offers cover and what doesn't at the start of the game

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Yeah, I said at the beginning of the game the hedges were just purely decorative.

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

@@StormofSteelWargaming this is a tremendous video - I have my pdf but am waiting for my full copy; btw, does the book include extra copies of the QRS such as came with General d'Armee? Always a lovely bonus

[@nickjennings8757]

@@Vlad65WFPReviews hi Vlad just answering for Alex, yes rules come with a copy if the QRS in a very similar format to GdA. The rule book and rules also have a similar feel and look as Daves previous rule sets. Building up into a lovely collection of excellent rules for various periods.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Thanks Vlad, as Nick says, yeah they come with the QRF.

[@Vlad65WFPReviews]

@@nickjennings8757 thanks, Nick! Yes, the QRS was the very first thing I spotted in a box-opening video and I was delighted. Been playing it solo a bit and it looks like a cracker of a game - many, many elements but with 4+ simplicity - and so many decisions. David has another winner.

[@militarywargaming7840]

Sorry not for us but thanks for the play through ...

[@SpringfieldFatts]

Thanks for this. The videos the Lardies put out for this game did a terrible job explaining it. This strikes me as kind of a mess of ideas conceptually.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

No problem, I'm not sure why you think that, it is pretty streamlined and works perfectly well for the level of command it is replicating, IMO.

[@SpringfieldFatts]

@@StormofSteelWargaming Obviously diluted by not having read them myself and only the video to form my impressions it just seems overly "busy." That setup and deployment takes a while, there's a lot of dice adding-and-subtracting in addition to rolling with little effect (though the spotting die being integrated into the roll is cool), the beloved Lardie Random Movement Rolls return, the whole two types of order resource management, and tokens all over the place. I'm kind of dreading what armor combat will be like in part 2.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

@@SpringfieldFatts set up only takes time in the video cos I was explaining it, in reality it's probably about ten minutes, roll a set of dice and put your figures and combat patrols on the table or in reserves, and you start. This way is far better than just setting up figures on opposite table edges and marching toward the centre. The little effect of dice rolling was due to my poor dice rolls, the majority of dice are rolled against a 4+ factor, so there's a 50% chance of success with pretty much every roll (apart from obscured units or elites). The dice addition and subtraction is equally streamlined with only a handful of factors at play, once you understand them (moving, firing into cover, being shocked are negative modifiers) they come very quickly, far quicker than looking up modifiers on a chart in other similar level games I've played. There's nothing wrong with random moves, and in fact, if having now used them, I would hate to go back to fixed movement rates, it seems pretty ancient and boringly predictable IMO. If you accept firing as a randomised event, then why not movement? There are so many factors at play. Armour is pretty simple, you roll to hit, then roll for effect. I'm not sure there are any rules that make it any easier than that. No need to dread it at all. And you can always replace the tokens with any other means, such as a roster, markers using spare figures, anything really. At the end of the day, you can either buy them or not, choice is yours.

[@SpringfieldFatts]

@@StormofSteelWargaming Thanks for extrapolating. Are the Brits you used on this video from your 15 minute challenge a while back?

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Indeed they are!