Obstruction in Toronto (via Buffalo) - Type 2 is Not Automatic, But Was Umpires' Out Call Correct?

After 2B Umpire Chad Whitson ruled obstruction on a botched pickoff play in New York (where Toronto plays home games for 2020’s season), chief Mark Carlson’s crew decided to nonetheless declare runner Lourdes Gurriel out at third base. www.closecallsports.com/2020/...
This analysis reminds us that by rule, there are two types of obstruction: one on a runner whom a play is being made on at the time of obstruction (or a batter-runner obstructed before reaching first base) and one involving a runner on whom a play is not being actively made at the time of obstruction.
This play constitutes the latter of the two (by definition, once the ball passes the fielder into the outfield, no play is actively being made on the runner), meaning that unlike the play IS being made on runner obstruction Type 1 (Type A), there is no automatic base award.
Instead, the umpires must let the play continue to its natural conclusion and then determine what penalties to impose, if any, that will nullify the act of obstruction: In other words, what would have happened here had obstruction not occurred. Would Miami nonetheless have thrown out the baserunner at third base? If so, the out call stands. If not, the runner is awarded third (or returned to second base, depending on the “nullify the act” determination).
What’s your call?
This video's sponsor: www.Outwestofficials.com

[@tgviss1988]

Gotta disagree with the out call in the Toronto game.

[@jamiethornton6101]

100 percent agree. He would've made third. He was standing up when he touched the bag. Not only did he get taken to the ground, it took time to get up around that grab. He should've been awarded third.

[@alexchavez3383]

@Michael Heathman I agree with all of you. He could have / should have run harder, and he would have made third, even if he ran at that same speed, but wasn't obstructed. Seems like an impossible call to sell / agree with

[@natemarroquin]

I disagree with the out call in the Toronto game. The defense can NOT impede a runner's progress to the base, therefore, obstruction should have been called, and the runner should have been awarded 3rd.

[@FactsMatter]

This is a bush league miss, even ignoring the scientific timing analysis. The play was clearly close enough at 3rd to protect the runner to 3B given the obstruction at second. The out call is tantamount to rewarding the defense for foul play. To call an out on this type of play at 3B, an umpire should be convinced that the runner had no legitimate attempt to make that base were it not for the obstruction. Horrible.

[@fides4758]

Agreed. I am a softball umpire I would declare that as a delayed dead ball the runner is safe in the Judgment of the Umpire have the runner not been obstructed

[@kerrytodd3753]

👍

[@jmcyclist2859]

Completely agree. This call did nothing to nullify anything…except the runner advancing a base. HORRIBLE job MLB.

[@socialumpire]

You're an foolish if you think that was close enough to award him 3B. The same could be said that runners just run because they think it's free. I love this rule cause I'll bang a mf out if I ain't got no faith in you

[@jayit6851]

Absolutely no way he would've been out had obstruction not occurred. This is a completely botched call.

[@jayit6851]

@Michael Heathman He was literally trying to run though. He had a fully grown man on his leg preventing him from leaving the base. You can see him trying to pull away before tripping after breaking free.

[@jayit6851]

@Michael Heathman it's not automatic, no. But it doesn't take an expert to see based on the time it took Gurriel the get free and how much the throw beat him to third that he had a more than reasonable shot at getting to third.

[@charliestokes4520]

I’m surprised they called him out, I’d have called him safe on the obstruction after getting together

[@larrycopeland2413]

It's all fine and good that CloseCall gets to put the stopwatch to the replay, but umpires on the field don't have that option. So the umps just have to estimate what would have happened without the obstruction? Because this whole play is changed by a defensive obstruction, maybe this rule should be changed to resemble football's illegal-touching rule on punts. That is, once the ball is illegally touched by the kicking team, the worst that can happen to the receiving team is they get the ball back at the spot of the illegal touching. So here (baseball), make the rule that the worst that can happen to the offense is that their runner gets sent back to 2nd base.

[@thecardczar8764]

@David Strothers That doesn't apply here simply because it is a type-B obstruction, which does not cause a dead ball.

[@time.8327]

Am I the only one that thinks the runner flopped or embellished the obstruction? I’m not denying the leg wrap but the runner could’ve continued standing imo.

[@jamiethornton6101]

Poor decision and I blame the second base umpire in this case. The fact he was taken down and almost held down or tripped again, should've been enough to give him third.

[@MrSnowdon0011]

A truly amazing decision - given the fact that three umpires got together (all of them with their own angle on the situation at 2nd base) and had time to discuss this ...

[@bsebldude]

No brainier. The entire crew kicked that one

[@daveh1758]

The defense screws up the pickoff, then trips the runner, as the ball goes into center field. Unless the center fielder was ridiculously shallow and had picked it up unusually quickly, this seems like an easy awarding of third base (and probably nobody would have given it a second thought).

[@kevindaugherty6617]

Excellent approach in the teaching of obstruction. A function of time and distance. I agree with the philosophy of giving the runner any benefit of the doubt while protecting. At least in this play example. In my opinion the only factor is "nullify the act of obstruction. There is no question in my mind the runner slowing down contributed to his being called out, but I'm sure sure that is a valid application. I remember the late Nick Bremigan teaching obstruction and the phrase "if he's out on a close play, award him the base. If he's out by a lot, let the out stand." While I understand what he is telling us, the level of understanding would apply to a College course "Obstruction 101" and after a few years I think umpires need to be thinking at a course level "Obstruction 606". Phrased another way, obstruction is way more involved than "out by a little or out by a lot".

[@jmhydn58]

Was that obstruction 666, in other words what the HELL?, Damian Thorn. Judgement, the obstruction occured between 2nd and 3rd, the only thing here is where is the outfielder, if he was close, the runner was hoping, if he was back, then the runner could have gotten there. It appears umpires didn't believe he would have achieved third even with obstruction, but benefit should go to the victim, the runner in this case. Its not automatic, its judgement

[@unclecreepy4185]

The infield clearly tried wrap the runner up on purpose. His slide is pulling his legs to his left away from the runner. Then he rolls over and when he does so, he swings his leg way over to his right, farther than what he’d need to do to stand up.

[@bryangolnick8663]

Where’d you find that video of Worth’s overturned ejection?

[@ryanglenn2745]

I would say that the runner should have been awarded third base/not called out. I think that had the runner gone off without obstruction he would've made it to the base safely. I'm biased as a Jays fan, but this definitely seemed like a botched call to me.

[@dougthegreat1808]

Ryan for whatever it's worth, I agree. Had R2 not been obstructed and had he remained on his feet, seeing the ball mis thrown, he would have gained third base! Go or bad that's my opinion. So please no stupid comments of how ignorant I am by others!

[@acehyatt44]

In the end, its a judgement call. We usually don't have frame by frame timestamps out in the field, so its in the best judgement of whether the runner would have reached or not. I think I would agree in awarding 3rd in this situation, but runners really have to learn to run full speed until they hear "Time!".

[@dougthegreat1808]

@@acehyatt44 I agree with you. BTW perhaps you would be surprised (or nit), how little some of these big leaguers know of the rules!

[@chrispate7354]

@@acehyatt44 notice he only slowed down AFTER the 3rd baseman had the ball. Running full speed like he would have if no obstruction had happened, he would be safe by a mile. He knew obstruction was already called and the 3rd baseman had the ball already for .94 seconds. He was actually tied up/ down for longer than 2 seconds so clearly he should have been called safe because of the obstruction.

[@acehyatt44]

@@chrispate7354 what part of "judgement call" confused you?

[@dougthegreat1808]

Gil, as you have written, this site and your play is great for learning!!!!

[@dougthegreat1808]

@Michael Heathman hey Mike how have you been. Since July 10th been doing Prospect Wire games. Finally!! How about you?

[@dougthegreat1808]

@Michael Heathman yea HS rules it's like type 2 or B type obstruction. Time isn't called but the infraction is recognized. Either way, time right away or after the play is dead will still give R3 home. The other runners R2 and R1 per your judgment if they could of advanced without the obstruction to R3....

[@dougthegreat1808]

@Michael Heathman it's always about saftey. Like the balk call. Of which I don't agree!!

[@dougthegreat1808]

@Michael Heathman Mike I feel you. Prospect Wire here in Florida is a competing tournament to Perfect Game. Hope things turn around for you pronto!!!👍👍👍

[@dougthegreat1808]

@Michael Heathman stressful situations no, only parents who think their kids are the next Mike Trout or Manny Machado....

[@charlesbarber5157]

The time stamps even show that yes he would have made it; runner should be called safe

[@StellarWishGaming2002]

Lmao this was just ridiculous. Chad Whitson, the 2nd base umpire, called obstruction right away, and Gurriel was tripped up so it was obviously obstruction, so he should've been at 3rd base. Glad we won that game though.

[@wganusgreen]

I believe they missed that one.

[@gcclassicslover7488]

Gotta point it out: the second baseman's got some mad cake 🎂

[@mptr1783]

I don't understand why the runner wasnt protected between 2nd and 3rd once the obsrtuction was called? At worst, he shouldve been returned to 2nd base, although I think he shouldve been awarded 3rd

[@mptr1783]

...also, is the High School rule different than the pro rule on obstruction. In HS, its an automatic award of 1 base(minimum) I believe. On a pickoff, if the 1st baseman obstructs the runner going back to the bag, the runner is awarded 2nd base in HS.

[@alanhess9306]

@@mptr1783 Yes, you are correct.

[@kenconnelly773]

That's way too subjective, the umps don't have stopwatch precision in their heads. It should be a simple penalty, the runner is guaranteed to advance one base on the play. Now if the runner tries to advance two or more bases past the point of obstruction, then the runner does so at his own risk.

[@alanhess9306]

There is no automatic one base award on type B obstruction under ML rules. If this game had been played under NFHS rules, there would have been an automatic one base award. This is one situation where I like the NFHS rule better.

[@kenconnelly773]

@@alanhess9306 that’s my point. I’m not saying that is the rule, rather I believe that’s what the rule should be.

[@alanhess9306]

@@kenconnelly773 The rule is fine but I wouldn't argue with your suggested change

[@michaelfalkner1186]

The Toronto/Buffalo call should've awarded third because of the runner's intent at the time of the obstruction to attempt to take third. Otherwise, the obstruction does not occur at all. Place at third.

[@alanhess9306]

In the Toronto/Buffalo call, the center fielder had the ball while the runner was only about 15 feet from second base. No way the runner would have made it to third safely. Out was the correct call.

[@dickraynes1339]

I think it's more than 1.74 to regain his footing personally. I say the defense screwed up. I've always been taught don't reward shoddy defensive play. I think the runner should be safe personally

[@alexchavez3383]

Correct, 1.74 to regain his balance, but there's zero chance he went into his full speed run the very next instant

[@MrGeldhart]

If no obstruction he doesn't stumble abs have to restart his momentum after regaining his feet. I once had F3 tangle up R1 on a routine base hit to center field (I pointed and called obstruction). F8 throws to F6 covering the bag and the throw beat F3. I called time and awarded R1 second. The defensive manager initially argued that F6 was entitled to be there as he was receiving the throw. Once I said the call was on F3 he apologized and returned to the dugout. Had a similar play later in the same game where a briefly entangled R2 decided to try for home and was out by a mile. I told my partner the runner was only protected to 3rd. Only thing we heard from the offense was "why the hell did you run through the stop signal?"

[@MaydayAggro]

The end of the video stole my thunder. I was going to say that the "severity" of the obstruction delayed him so much that it resulted in the change from a "safe" to an "out."

[@thecardczar8764]

The main point of the video is to show that just because there was obstruction doesn't mean the runner will be protected from the out. I do tend to think that the runner should've been awarded the base, but the obstruction is a judgment-based penalty, and therefore only the umpire making that call can decide on whether or not to protect the runner. If a different ump is there, the result may be flipped. It's hard to say for sure if it was the right call or not in a judgment call like this, so let's just respect the judgment of the guy in the uniform and work to be in his shoes next time!

[@bretthardin9239]

bad call. they just want to end games faster

[@Elsanta666]

HOW DOES THE RUNNER KNW WHICH TYPE OF OBSTRUCTION WAS CALLED?

[@vincenttougas9090]

Ball is dead immediatly on a type 1 obs... The umpire points for obs 2 and says that's obstruction

[@alexchavez3383]

Because a play with the ball is not being made on him when the obstruction happens (The ball is rolling onto the outfield), most players will know that's type 2 obstruction. As opposed to a player being obstructed in the middle of a rundown, when a play is being made on him, they'll know that's type one, and the next base is guaranteed (barring malicious contact in most codes)

[@Samanthareneeheart10]

I feel if obstruction would NOT have occurred in this situation the runner would have been safe at 3rd, now the other instances the out would stand as the runner I think could not have made it to 3rd without being put out first

[@jonkuntz4960]

Fielder inf with a runner go to 3th base

[@bobcarp1239]

If the play at 3rd in the 2013 World Series was obstruction, then this one should definable be called...

[@alanhess9306]

Both were called obstruction but there is no automatic base award, so it becomes umpire judgment as to whether the runner gets the next base. In the world series game they judged correctly. In this video they judged incorrectly.

[@CIF-pm7tk]

that is odd, obstruction shoild reward the player the next base or why even call it? whatever happens after that base, he is on his own.

[@CloseCallSports]

That's not the rule in OBR.

[@CIF-pm7tk]

@@CloseCallSports not even NFHS?

[@alanhess9306]

@@CIF-pm7tk There is a mandatory one base award under NFHS rules, but not under MLB rules.

[@CIF-pm7tk]

@@alanhess9306 ya, thats what i thought. i dont know mlb rule. i know the nfhs rule, awarded one base, but if they advance past that base, they are on their own.

[@alanhess9306]

@@CIF-pm7tk Yes, that is true for NFHS.

[@robertbrown7470]

They could have given him three full steps which would make this a very close play.

[@hwileyiii]

Yeah, I don't like this out. Should have been 3rd base awarded.

[@bernier42]

I know this video is 13 months old, but the word at 0:13 is pronounced “a rye”.

[@BrianSmith-gp9xr]

Would have given it to the runner. He felt before he left he was obstructed and perhaps foolishly did not hustle.

[@ronaldmead7643]

He would have been out no matter what. He tried going to third hope he would get the call his way. It did not work

[@johnleonard6878]

The umpires don't have a time stamp system so they used there judgement to make the call

[@garrettwebster201]

Of course not. The purpose of this video is to educate others how to handle this call, using a specific play as an example. The timestamps are a tool to help home our judgment and understanding, and to get us thinking about it different ways.

[@chrispate7354]

And they totally BLEW it

[@jmhydn58]

Screw the timestamp.....just use your brain

[@stevehamman4465]

If there is obstruction, then there is a penalty! Now what, umps are to start using stop watches? Get rid of umps and use cameras,and lasers. Sheees!

[@damienbell3155]

I got obstruction

[@alanhess9306]

Obstruction was called.

[@damienbell3155]

@@alanhess9306 but ultimately he was not awarded 3rd. He was called out. So I have obstruction with runner warranted 3rd base

[@alanhess9306]

@@damienbell3155 Yes, I agree.

[@critter2]

obstruction should of been been not out call

[@Gnomaana]

It probably didn't help the runner's case that he took a dive. Yes, he was obstructed. But, he was clear of the 2nd baseman and still on his feet and decided to throw himself to the ground in that barrel roll. I know slow motion can be deceptive and could be why it looks like that but that could also be why the umpires called him out.

[@jaybingham3711]

Are you kidding? When his instep made contact with the fielder's arm, it was like: "Well, wow, where'd that come from? Ouchie... Ouchie... Your arm hurted my foot real bad...and when I tried to test if my shoe/foot might be able to quantum-tunnel right through your arm...it totally didn't! So, now my proprioception has been totally blown asunder. My God, I think I'm going to fall! Hold on! I'm definitely going down. And everyone knows how I feel about clean uniforms. I get assaulted while arriving at 2nd and end up being tripped while trying to move on to 3rd only for the assault to intensify and eventually I fall (in the dirty infield) due to a not so perfect heal hook technique...and all of this most assuredly prevented me from properly calculating my ability to get to 3rd after the illegal shenanagins transpired and sullied our great game. Had I been allowed to traverse the base path in a manner free from any fielder's hindrance, I would not be standing before you in a dirty uniform. And my mind is unclean, too...having to think about how aggressive the assault was." "Frankly, during the assault, it was like I was being viewed not as a person in a baseball uniform. Instead, I was just as another inanimate object much like the bag itself. It has left me totally shaken. I'm glad there's video evidence of it."

[@cloudwatcher724]

wow..... wow...... (did i mention "wow...."?)... sometimes i get the opinion that mlb umpires do stupid $#!+ on purpose just because they can... after all, who's going to do anything about it? they are laughing all the way to the guaranteed pension...