Oddity Archive: Episode 219.5 - Ben’s Junk: ClonerAlliance Box Pro (Video Capture Device)

[@vwestlife]

The only native 4:3 resolution setting on mine is the PC 1024x768 60 Hz mode. Also I had glitchiness when recording to NTFS drives. Cloner Alliance told me to use FAT32 instead and that mostly fixed it. Maybe they improved the NTFS support in a later firmware version.

[@OddityArchive]

No glitches so far. Looks like the most recent firmware update was about two years ago.

[@otaking3582]

I'm pretty sure there are other ways of recording from component cables out there, even if they're not the cheapest. I'd recommend watching My Life in Gaming's PS2 episode and/or try to get in contact with FrameRater.

[@evefavretto]

"the remote has a definite cheap Chinese vibe " Yeah, it looks a lot like a remote for an Android TV set top box

[@und4287]

that remote housing is used on thousands of cheap chinese electronics

[@JanusCycle]

Nice box. Looking forward to finding out more about D-VHS when you get there.

[@maxmushroomN64]

the VGA input looks like it could be really useful

[@stressball1324]

I find it quite strange that you’re not on board on analogue captures at 60fps/59.94fps for NTSC or 50fps for PAL considering that is what it’s supposed to look like, at least if it was shot on videotape. I think it’s due to the fact we’ve seen analogue videos at only half its frame rate for so long that when you look at analogue material in its actual frame rate you think that it looks unnatural but that’s how it’s supposed to be. Also, what editing software are you using that the maximum frame rate it goes up to is only 30 FPS? Just wondering Ben. Regardless, your videos are always very informative, keep up the great work as can’t wait for the video on the D-VHS format.

[@OddityArchive]

Still on Windows Movie Maker. It's such a part of OA's vibe that I just haven't been able to part with it. Also, unless I'm really missing something, broadcasting is at 59.94 (or 50)fps, but not the content.

[@stressball1324]

@@OddityArchive Thanks for the response Ben. First of all, you still use Windows movie maker? Okay I understand you are into old, obscure and outdated electronics so I presume that’s the reason why you’re still using it, but why not use editing software like DaVinci resolve 17? The lite version is free and there is so much you can do on that compared to moviemaker, as long as you’ve got a PC or Mac that is strong enough to run it it will work. Secondly, Broadcasting isn’t the only thing that’s at 59.94/50FPS, anything that was shot on videotape ( with a few exceptions) Family videos on VHS, Betamax, 8mm video tape, mini DV and many more, TV sitcoms on dvd (if it wasn’t shot on film), etc... It’s very hard to explain it but despite the fact when you watch a video it says it’s 29.97/25fps this is not necessarily true, that is the frame rate on an interlaced image, but when it’s properly converted to a progressive image it’s actually 59.94/50fps. It’s one of those things I can’t properly explain, you actually have to see it with your own eyes but once you do, you will realise oh so that’s what it’s supposed to look like. The problem is I would say about 90 to 95% of all videos on the Internet that were captured from analogue to digital are always captured at only half its information so as a result we are not actually seeing analogue video material it as it should be. Sorry if I’m not much help trying to explain it. The only thing I will say is try playing back any type of videotape that was shot natively on videotape, and plug it straight into something like a CRT TV then directly compare it to the one you captured on your computer. the difference is noticeable. As I said keep up with the great work, you are fantastic.

[@OddityArchive]

It’s more the choppy, pseudo-industrial look that keeps me on WMM. Believe me, I’ve kicked around the idea many times of going over to something nicer (lord knows I beat my head against the wall enough with it). WMM just seems to be the thing that gives OA its flavor. EDIT: So the frame rate has more to do with the, I guess, scanning. For what it’s worth, the 60fps option on the Cloner on my progressive gear is near-interchangeable with 29.97fps.

[@stressball1324]

@@OddityArchive if you like using Windows movie maker, that’s ok. heck, a lot of people are still using Windows XP, despite the fact it got officially discontinued in 2013 because they love the set up and considerate it the best operating software that Microsoft has ever released. Just trying to help you out, you are one of the most underrated KZbin Channels.

[@michaelcarpenter2498]

Sometimes stick with what you know instead of the new bright shiny thing. Upgrading can sometimes be a step back.

[@DanZero77]

But the Engrish and the cheap remote add to that modern consumer electronics vibe we've all come to expect these days!

[@DJAllOut]

The quality of those captures looks excellent! Looking forward to more History of VHS

[@robfriedrich2822]

This unit can everything...

[@robfriedrich2822]

The capture device does a pretty good job

[@RetroDakota]

I'm curious to see if this could work with QuickTime on a Mac. My current (and admittedly not perfect) HDMI USB dongle solution just shows up as a USB video camera/audio capture in QuickTime, allowing rather easy capture of HDMI footage with some caveats. Those caveats are the inability to change the aspect ratio for 4:3 content, and no way to adjust QuickTime's compression settings, necessitating the use of AVIDemux for those final tasks. Though The ClonerAlliance Box doesn't come with Mac-specific software, I wouldn't be surprised if the device gets recognized as a standard USB Video/Audio capture device that works in a similar way to my current USB dongle. I may have to look into this myself, as it would eliminate the need for a separate AV-to-HDMI box as well as being able to capture to a USB flash drive. As for the 60fps transfer trend, I guess what I want to achieve with my transfers is a de-interlacing method that works similar to how consumer Mac/PC DVD player software de-interlace DVD movies and TV shows. The particular de-interlace method used by those allows videotaped shows (sitcoms, etc) looks as smooth as they would on a CRT, while also keeping filmed content flowing at it's proper frame rate without applying the dreaded "soap opera effect".

[@ShawnTewes]

The QTGMC deinterlacer is great for maintaining the smooth motion and sharpness of 480i video, while making it easy to compress, allowing for 60fps progressive output without any combing or stair step (skipped field) artifacts that plague 30fps transfers. I believe DVD software such as Cyberlink PowerDVD uses the bob deinterlacing method. It has smooth motion, but can be a bit jumpy and not as sharp. The main drawback of QTGMC is that it needs a fairly powerful machine, and even then it can be slow to process. VLC can play back interlaced footage in realtime using the Yadif 2x deinterlacer, which looks sharper and overall better than bob, and it gets really close to that CRT look. In general, your output destination will determine whether or not to deinterlace. If you're trying to preserve 480i footage for archiving intact, then it's best to capture it that way to begin with, and let your playback software/display handle deinterlacing. Otherwise, if you're capturing for KZbin for instance, then you would want to convert that footage to progressive 60fps (at least 720p) to maintain the look and feel of how it was shown on a CRT (as weird and unnatural as it may be to watch footage intended for CRT on a shiny 4K flat panel).

[@RetroDakota]

@@ShawnTewes My AV-to-HDMI converter box handles the de-interlacing part. That is connected to an USB dongle that captures HDMI signals. The AV converter is meant to be used with a standard HDTV to convert a composite A/V signal to either 720p or 1080p via a switch. I set it to 720p as the capture device can only do 60fps recording at 720p. 1080p recordings are capped at 30fps. So while there is no post-process de-interlace filters required, I still have to manually set the aspect ratio with AVIDemux thanks to QuickTime's lack of configuration options. I could switch to OBS Studio which allows precise setting of the recording resolution, but with my previous experience of OBS on a Windows PC, I would be in for all sorts of audio sync problems I could never sort out. I could try OBS on my current Mac setup, but I wonder if I'll run into the same audio sync problems....

[@cbehr91]

For the tape at 16:02 an external frame TBC should correct the vertical jitter.

[@Fuzy2K]

"WE SLEPT IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" *doot doodle-oot doo--* (music gets cut off)

[@GeoNeilUK]

Also, I don't like where the Delete button is. Right beneath the Play button and in between the Rewind and Fast Forward buttons, that button should be well away from the playback controls.

[@ellisgl]

I think I had this one and had to return it, since the 1080p recording ended up with horrible results, even on the highest settings.

[@GrumpzTheCat]

Just woke up and there's a new video!

[@5speedfatty]

linux can be a tad jank as far as ntfs goes but it is able to read from and write to that partition type. (sudo apt install ntfs-3g) id say skip the built in software and just use something open source...

[@Hogstuff]

When do we get to hear "John McCain (Parlor Song #117)"?

[@OddityArchive]

Never. I had to write a campaign song my last semester of college. It was a pastiche of late 19th century campaign songs-figured I’d make an old song for an old candidate.

[@GabrielleCenter2000]

That box is so cool. I didn't know they made one of those.

[@michaelcarpenter2498]

A lot of Ben Minnotte stuff in your iTunes there. Are you a big fan. Seriously great video.

[@OddityArchive]

Heh. It's left over from my music days if I needed to play something for someone on the fly. I have it set to not come up on shuffle.

[@michaelcarpenter2498]

Well so do I. Of course since the band just lost its guitarist, singer, and main lyrics writer, Weare going through a transition.

[@ghagefuoco8373]

D-Theater contains the only HD release of True Lies

[@BigOlSmellyFlashlight]

ben: "i dont like how it looooks ::((((((((" *proceeds to destroy half of what he's "archiving"*

[@OddityArchive]

How so?

[@flylesskyle]

7:22 that’s something id kill to have. how do you get a computer to hold two different operating systems?

[@OddityArchive]

Any Windows or Mac computer should be able to dual-boot. There are plenty of tutorials on KZbin.

[@johnathin0061892]

The line based TBC in your JVC S-VHS deck should handle any TBC issues 99.99% of the time, if you need it at all. At least with VHS of course.

[@NortelGeek]

I've heard of the Stoner Alliance... but never a cloner alliance.

[@19king14]

Did you happen to have any sound-to-video sync problems? Some of the capture devices I use throws the sound out of sync.

[@OddityArchive]

I had one minor sync issue with one of the over-the-air tests-which may have been on the broadcasters part.

[@19king14]

@@OddityArchive I like the Cloner Alliance Pro, but one thing odd... if I record to a USB thumb drive and then copy the video into the computer, it plays fine. If I open Vegas Studio and import the video, Vegas does something to the video where the sound becomes out of sync, even though the video was fine otherwise. Now, If I record the video directly into the PC, it plays fine and the sound stays in sync when importing it into Vegas. - Strange - but at least I found a way that works..

[@OddityArchive]

It means something (your software perhaps) has no audio dropout compensation. Happens to me periodically.

[@SetTopGames]

Ben... did you test recording video off your Sega Genesis? That thing has a notoriously weird video signal that most devices can't handle without it being stabilized somehow (like through a VCR deck.)

[@OddityArchive]

Actually, I didn’t think to test any game consoles with it.

[@IgrokDrako]

I wonder what happens if a D-Theater tape is worn out or has a crease or mold in the tape?

[@TheMediaHoarder]

The picture freezes or gets blocky momentarily, similar to bad digital TV reception. The heads need to be cleaned somewhat regularly. I've had some tapes play badly at first but fine later on.

[@soundminedd]

Capturvating❤❤❤

[@dorourke105]

I know you don't live in denver anymore but do you or anyone else know if there are any Perkins still left in colorado?

[@OddityArchive]

There used to be one in Denver at Colorado Blvd. and I-25 when I lived there.

[@adamstamps3568]

is the may 1983 recording on archive annex

[@OddityArchive]

It is. Recorded from TBS, uploaded last Summer.

[@adamstamps3568]

@@OddityArchive cool i typed in may 1983 on archive annex it dident come up lol

[@OddityArchive]

Here it is if you didn't find it already. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3LEnXl6jNmlp8U

[@Mr.Goodkat]

How can you get S-video to work with this? it's supposed to look better than composite.

[@OddityArchive]

Not an option on this model.

[@Mr.Goodkat]

@@OddityArchive Is there one where it is?

[@OddityArchive]

ClonerAlliance does have one (covered elsewhere on this channel), but it's a piece of junk.

[@williama29]

That's a cool box I like it

[@michaelcarpenter2498]

A&r, people who are now obsolete. But amazing you got that picture from a dup. To be serious, D-vhs seems like a good concept just a little late to the party.

[@ToenS]

hahaha.. "Och!" is actually a very german colloquial term and quite funny in that context 😆

[@prismstudios001]

Man, I want a strawberry waffle fit some reason!

[@robfriedrich2822]

6:05 Every Mac can read NTFS.

[@OddityArchive]

Tell that to my 2012 iMac.

[@evefavretto]

@@OddityArchive you could also try NTFS-3G or one of the paid NTFS solutions

[@RetroDakota]

@@OddityArchive I had a 2008 iMac as a spare computer, and I was able to gain read-only access to an NTFS external hard disk. A 2012 iMac with a relatively current macOS should be able to read an NTFS drive without any additional software or drivers.

[@robfriedrich2822]

@@OddityArchive Why could my Mac read NTFS? Mac Mini from 2009.

[@mightyfilm]

While I'm not surprised you wouldn't be a fan of 60fps, I'm glad someone else is speaking up against it. I absolutely hate how it makes movies look like cheap television soap operas, even when the thing is animated. And yes, I'm WELL aware it's "coconut effect" stuff and we expect films and certain shows to be grainy and film looking, and its absence is jarring, but I just hate the look and the motion sickness I get from it.

[@OddityArchive]

If the idea was to recapture the broadcast look, either they're too young to remember analog TV or their memories are more ghostly than bad reception. I don't remember analog TV looking anything like what I'm seeing on YT these days. Having said that, as I said in the video, the 720p/59.94fps setting on the Cloner is virtually indistinguishable from 29.97fps--very slightly more fluid, but that's about it.

[@RetroDakota]

@@OddityArchive I had an old CRT-TV as my daily driver for quite a long time, up until around 2008 when I got my first flat panel. Even then, I went back to a CRT for a time because of my then obsession with retro video games and how much better they look on a CRT. My DVD player explanation from earlier stems from a time I managed to get a DVD-R from a friend that contained a copy of "The Dream Machine, a Scanimate documentary. One of the discs had cool demo reels. Scanimate is very smooth by design, and this is when I really began to notice framerate discrepancies between a CRT televison and video playback on my laptop and how some standard de-interlacing methods ruin (in my eyes) the fluid movement of Scanimate visuals and videotaped shows after conversion to standalone video files. I guess it all depends on the individual when it comes to framerate perception. Some notice the difference much more than others.

[@TheMediaHoarder]

Look at any old video I’ve uploaded within the past 3 years. All are at 60fps but don’t apply any fake effects like TV motion smoothing does. I convert filmed material even though it doesn’t really need to be, and it still displays as it was intended. The default KZbin standard-def video does the opposite of the soap opera effect- it takes away every other field and makes video appear more like film.

[@DesmondShannon87]

Yep just got the news