Offset Holes with the PGS - and the definitive 4 Cut Test

[@dworkin7110]

Very useful video. I have the system 2 and already created my MFT top with 96mm holes. Fortunately I left a few undrilled holes to make sure I could still extend the table holes at a later date but they are in the way to some degree. I just hadn't thought about what now is obvious - create a series of reference holes all around the edge! Thanks!

[@NewBritWorkshop]

I am glad that this has helped. Cheers. Peter

[@allenjenkins289]

Hi Peter Great video just bought mk2 parf guide I've got to say its brilliant I've just made my first top for site I'm a kitchen fitter and I've made one with a sacrificial strip so when I cut my panels the cut line is in the same place and if I do damage it I can replace the bit of timber very easily it's great I'm very pleased with it Regards Allen

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Allen, That is great feedback and I am very grateful that you have let me know how pleased you are. Good luck with all of your work. Cheers. Peter

[@MrPatdeeee]

Good Show! Thank you Peter for teaching us so MANY things that helps more than you know. 🎵"For he's 💂 a jolly good fellow! A jolly 💂good fellow! A jolly 💂 good fellOOOOOOOOOOOW! ................................That NO body can deny!"🎵

[@nino3798]

Thank you Peter for your excellent way to describe the articles you treat each time. Thank you again from Italy.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Nino, Thank you. Cheers. Peter

[@cameronmcarthur582]

I will consider myself very lucky based on what you just said, I only had to wait one week to get my order. Great seeing you work and thank you for passing along your wisdom.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Cameron, Yes, things are settling down now. Axminster have opened up new manufacturing capability and are employing extra skilled engineers. It is also giving great opportunities for their new apprentices. Cheers. Peter

[@jtlong8383]

It is a brilliant system, and I am very pleased with my purchase and the results.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Thank you so much for that feedback. Peter

[@JurBols477]

I am one of lucky ones getting my Mark || Parf Guide System by DHL tomorrow! Give me some time but I will sure be happy to do a review about the set. Thanks for al the clear instructions, I hope it all works out!

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Jurjen, Excellent. Peter

[@denty32]

Very informative and a cracking demo as always, many thanks Peter.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

I am sorry that it has taken so long but I am trying to move house. Cheers. Peter

[@patrickadams1688]

Peter, these Parf tables are a great addition to any workshop but I think you are making a lot of work for yourself with these offset holes. I don’t have this problem with mine because I made up a couple of 20 x 200mm long dogs and tapped each end with an 8mm thread. This allows me to fit a T bolt in the end of each dog. I can then pass the dog up from underneath and locate in the T slot on the underside of the guide rail and lock with a quick turn of the dog. This means that any worktop cut is offset from the Parf holes. When I want to remove any stock from under the guide rail I can just lift it up a little bit and it normally just stays there. Alternatively with a quick turn of the long dog I can release the guide rail completely. I’ve since found that BenchDogs now sell there own version of my dogs but they are only 100mm long and their T bolt has to be slid in from one end whereas mine can be put in anywhere on the T slot the rail. If you want to see some pictures let me know and where to send them.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Patrick, Very clever - perhaps you should make a video ! Cheers. Peter

[@MultiWarrior63]

Thanks Peter, great video mate

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Ken, Many thanks. Peter

[@joebloggs7231]

You can of course cut wider stock by cutting parallel to the long sides of the table top. Notwithstanding, this is a great system for creating tops of all sizes.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Joe, Of course. Many thanks. Peter

[@fixedwheel]

"I think that must be pretty reasonable..." Peter, you are the master of understatement. I'm trying to pick my jaw off the floor with you getting it to .08mm over a 495mm cut, and giving us the tools to get that accuracy ourselves. Thanks again.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi John, Yes, I suppose it is pretty good but I have heard from others who have made even more accurate track saw cutting stations ! Cheers. Peter

[@chipatchison5971]

Another great video. I make the top and bottom rows all offset holes :) Lovely! Hope the move is going well

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Chip, Many thanks - I am still at the de-cluttering stage throwing away (or taking to the charity shop) tons of stuff accumulated over the years. Cheers. Peter

[@barrynorman3906]

Peter, firstly very informative well presented video (as always) One thing that has always puzzled me is why not use a sacrifice board under your stock so the surface is not damaged.This is one of those that you know there must be a reason but my dumb head doesn't come up with it. So I thought I would embarrass myself and ask. Thank's

[@roncooper6302]

I did not want to embarrass myself, but I was thinking the same thing.

[@Marcus_Caius]

Using a sacrificial board will not guarantee a clean hole. It help for sure but at some point you end up with dust between the boards and the damage *may* occur. The best way to prevent damage is to make the pilot holes which damage result is neglected by the bigger and final holes. Once the pilot holes are completed start boring the 20mm at +50% depth than turn the board upside down and finish the holes. This is a longer process but ensure you have perfect clean holes. My thought.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

The PGS 20 mm cutter hardly creates any breakout when used with good quality MDF. If anyone does decide to use a sacrificial board then it has to be fixed to the main board throughout the drilling process (both 3 mm and 20 mm holes). The reason for this is that the PGS 20 mm cutter must have a 3 mm pilot hole ahead of it in order to work. I have never used a sacrificial board and am happy with the results from the many dozens of tops that I have made. Peter

[@barrynorman3906]

Marcus, thank's for your reply but either I have I misunderstood your reply or I didn't explain well. I wasn't saying about cutting or drilling the holes I was saying that to stop damaging the top of the MFT 3 top (as Pater calls it), why not put a sacrifice board between the MFT 3 board and your stock so that when you use a track saw you don't end up with curf marks on the board with the Parf Dog holes drilled in. I do hope that makes sense as I know what I mean but when I read it back I am not sure haha.

[@barrynorman3906]

Thank's for that Peter.

[@guitarchitectural]

A timely video... just finished my fourth PGS (v1) top today on a permanent assembly/cutting table - the first two were temporary and the third was a workbench. Hopefully I don't see any tips I wish I had know before I started, Haha!

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Great stuff. Peter

[@guitarchitectural]

@@NewBritWorkshop watched the video and now I want v2! While I was laying it out I was wishing for 48mm option, Haha!

[@jhutch9106]

They must still be having a hard time filling orders I had to wait two months for stock in the U.S. It was worth the wait this thing is Amazing in it's accuracy. After a couple of tries at the 4 cut test i was getting results that show me that I need better squares.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

The accuracy is truly amazing and I knew when I made the very first prototype that it would be a winner. Axminster's brilliant engineers have taken my idea forward and it now really can beat many CNCs - woodworking CNCs have never been especially accurate as they tend not to take tool wear into account. Cheers. Peter

[@MarcoChristensen]

Great video as usual. Whats the size of the mdf board, width, length and thickness?

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Marcon, 1720 mm x 1100 mm Cheers. Peter

[@DalyMalcolm]

Hi peter, good idea once again, ill stick with my Mk 1 kit pal, glad theyre doing so well, I hope you negotiated your cut well with axminster (-;

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Malcom, Long time no see - I hope all is well. Cheers. Peter

[@DalyMalcolm]

New Brit Workshop I’ve been really busy pal. Doing two jobs, taking the kids to Florida so I’m having to work my but off 😄

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Malcolm, I remember those days. I had my full time job, worked 5 sessions a week in the local pub and taught maths 2 evenings a week. That was 40 years ago and I am still recovering !! Good luck and enjoy Florida. Peter

[@varmit7286]

How about a pair of Parf Dogs that sit flush with the table top (held by a top chamfer) and have a 3mm hole in the center. These could be used to align the Guide System on existing tops. Fantastic system. Excellent videos. Thank you!

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Interesting idea. Cheers. Peter

[@hughlaxton7852]

Hello Peter, is there any way to drill accurate offset holes for the super dogs using the PGS Mk1?

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Hugh, Yes, if you use the two rulers set up in a triangle- remember symmetry. Peter

[@barryschings3275]

Nice video, wish I saw this last week before I built my table. How would you drill offset holes after the fact? Thanks again for such wonderful videos

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Barry, that was covered recently in my Workshop Notes #23 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/amWYiKudZsppnLM Peter

[@mimibecks7049]

Hi Peter For those who purchased the original system of parf guide, including me, is there a kit that will convert it to mark 2 or do I have to buy everything all over. Note that I am very happy with the original system and I have already saved tons of money by making my own tops instead of paying festool over $100 for their MDF version. Actually I buy 1 1/2 thick MDF doors and I use your system to make my tops and had no trouble drilling through. Please review and let me know. I purchased your system in US from TSO products. Thank you

[@mlindholm]

Mimi Becks I was curious too, so called and asked Axminster about the availability. They would be able to sell an upgrade kit, consisting of Mark II rulers, 6mm bushed drill guide (tall and short, presumably), 3mm drill bit in holder for it, and the new pins with 6mm collars. I don't remember if I was given an exact price, but given that it's everything except the 20mm bit and collar, 20mm drill guide, and 2x dogs, the cost was going to be a good chunk of the cost of a full new kit. Also, since they're so slammed with orders, it's not something they'd be able to fill just yet. You can always call or email, and ask for details and to conform what I've said.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Mimi, The original PGS is just as accurate as the Mark 2 version. The key difference is that the Mark 2 will last a very long time as there is no direct contact bewteen the 3 mm drill and the Parf Sticks (rulers). If you plan on producing more than 30 MFT3 size tops then the Mark 2 is better. There is no upgrade kit as everything in the Mark 2 is different except the 20 mm cutter and the locator dogs. Peter

[@mimibecks7049]

@@NewBritWorkshop Hi Peter Thank you for the quick response reply. I apologise if I was not clear in my email but I have absolutely no accuracy problem and your system has performed extremely but the reason why I wanted the mark 2 is the ability to drill offset holes. I look forward to purchasing the Mark 2 but as I understand it is not available in the US yet. Thank you

[@mimibecks7049]

@@mlindholm Thank you for the reply and you are correct( please see Peter's reply). Thanks again

[@NewBritWorkshop]

It should be available from TSO about now or direct from Axminster with a few days delay. Peter

[@RobyWanKenobi]

Any thoughts on variations of hole placements? I have been debating doing row 32 or 42 mm from outside edge then starting 96mm spacing. Will be on a larger bench 36 to 40 by 72 to 80 inches. Any direction would be much appreciated. Anxious to use the MK II that I just received but don't want to get ahead of myself.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Richard, I have made several videos about offset holes and even an Isometric layout. I can't list all the links but hope that you can search for them. I favour offset holes furthest away from the operator and nearest to the operator for the tall dogs that the rail goes against. This gives the maximum cutting capacity in between. Do search for the Isometric layout which is perfect for 90 deg, 30 deg and 60 deg cuts. Peter

[@RobyWanKenobi]

@@NewBritWorkshop I should have been more clear, sorry. But was thinking of having the rows and columns start at the 32 or 48 mm from the edge. Thank you for your earlier quick response and hope you have a good day.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Richard, You can have the rows or columns with centres as close as 32 mm from the edge of your bench top provided what structure of the bench is below does not risk causing any damage to the 20 mm cutter whilst drilling the holes. Good luck. Peter

[@stephenkim7502]

What if your table was doubled the size. Do you then connect 2 rulers to get a row/column complete?

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Stephen, You start at the middle of the top long side so that you then expand left and right in equal measure. This reduces compound error by a huge amount. It is covered in the instruction manual. Peter

[@stephenkim7502]

@@NewBritWorkshop apologies, I should clarify. At the 8 min mark, when drilling the offset holes along the bottom of the table, the ruler is the length of the example table you are using. If the table was wider, the single ruler would not fit.

[@bobbydazzler2248]

Hi Peter. I have started making a new MFT top using your Parf Guide MK2 and I have a question on finishing. I would like to finish the Medex you recommend to help with glue ups. Would you suggest Osmo Polyx and should I apply before boring the 20mm holes? Best Regards, Rob.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Rob, Yes, always apply the PolyX or any other finish prior to drilling otherwise the oil will go into the 20 mm holes and make them too tight. Remember to use a pecking motion when drilling the 20 mm holes and also a dust extractor. Peter

[@gamblesc1]

Hi Peter, just had my first attempt using your system MK11. I am building a large table and I used High Density MDF. after drilling with 3mm pilot the pins were incredibly tight I could not push them in by hand and had to use a little block of wood. Perhaps the nature of the high density material closed the hole up by expansion? The result was that I bent two of the pins. Could not find a way to purchase replacement pins in the Axminister book? Do you know how I can replace just the pins?

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Scott, Phone or email Axminster Customer Support and they will help you. Peter

[@roncooper6302]

Peter, once again Ron Paulk an American presenter, is using Parf Dogs, but interestingly, he is advocating sacrificial strips under the piece he is cutting. I wish I could send this privately, because I've not doubt I am showing my lack of knowledge. Regards

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Ron, Some people like to protect their precious bench tops and I respect that. I do not care about my tops as the PGS makes them quick, cheap and easy to replace. Cheers. Peter

[@jeffmarks3218]

Peter, I think I asked this before but did not understand your answer. I have a couple of festool mft3 boards that are already cut with holes. Is it possible to leverage the PGS Mark II system to add the offset holes? I know the PGS Mark II system can create the offset holes if the holes are all 3mm. I am asking once they are already 20mm. Thanks

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Jeff, It is not easy and with the original Festool tops you will not be able to guarantee accuracy. However, if you have the small Veritas Parf Dogs or the locator dogs from the Mark 2 PGS you can butt a Parf Stick against them to create a new row of 3 mm holes. Peter

[@jeffmarks3218]

Peter, Thanks for your quick response. It is really impressive when you respond like you do. I like your idea regarding an existing Festool MFT table. I think it might work how you described above. I have several Festool MFT table boards and I would prefer to leverage them if possible with the Parf Guide system Mark II for now. Thank you very much and love your channel. Even us Texans are Brit lovers :) Jeff Marks @@NewBritWorkshop

[@Workshop-of-Allsorts]

Peter, love this system. I completed a similar worktop idea on my new prototype torsion table, however a few mm out on a few holes 🤔 Will the Mark I Parf guide do as good and as accurate a layout out as the Mark II ? Or should I wait and buy the Mark II. (Currently OOS) The torsion box I built was really only a trail, I knew I would want to build a new very accurate one at some point.....looking at starting the upgrade in the coming month or so. I absolutely love the simple but impactful videos you post, learn loads from them 👍🏻

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Martin, Both systems are equally accurate but (IMHO) the Mark 2 system forces the user to be more careful and hence produce a more accurate result. As I am experienced with both systems I cannot put one ahead of the other for accuracy. If you are planning on making a lot of tops then the Mark 2 is better as there is far less wear after multiple use. Peter

[@Workshop-of-Allsorts]

New Brit Workshop thanks Peter, keep those videos coming 😉 Mark II it is then 👍🏻

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Martin, Good choice. Peter

[@ScrewThisGlueThat]

Peter, What are the clips called you are using with the dogs and the festool track... and where do I get some in USA

[@ScrewThisGlueThat]

I got it sorted... found on eBay.

[@chipsterb4946]

Robert Ketter - TSO Products appears to carry many of the UJK products. Lee Valley sells one or two. Sure wish they offered the Wonder Pup and Wonder Dog in 20 mm versions.

[@johnfrederickson3082]

Have you made a top of Melamine? I know it chips, but it is smooth. Does it ruin the cutters?

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi John, No. The cutter would manage it but would lose its edge quite quickly. In MDF the cutter leaves a clean exist hole but if the melamine was on the underside, as I would expect, it could chip out and look untidy. If it were a very special top then you could effectively sacrifice the 20 mm cutter. The underside chipping could be avoided by first doing all the 3 mm holes, then from underneath use the 20 mm cutter just enough to cut the melamine and finally drill from the top all the way through. There might still be a tiny bit of breakout as the cutter rubs the side of the melamine underneath but it could be tidied up with a small chamfer. I think a new 20 mm cutter is about £20. Peter

[@mjunaid8729]

i lost one of my pins today... wonder if the festool sucked it up

[@NewBritWorkshop]

I am sure that it will turn up but I am sure it would not be difficult to get a replacement. Peter

[@hf8685]

Peter, for those of us who purchased the original Parf Guide system, could you not provide a supplemental straight edge with the 48 mm and 32 mm offset holes? Give it a thought.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Henry, I have run this past Axminster a year and a bit ago just before the final design acceptance of the Mark 2. It may come and I agree it would be useful. Peter

[@hf8685]

I hope so, it doesn’t have to be too complicated and not much longer than 300 mm so as to pick up on two 3mm holes for accuracy.

[@NewBritWorkshop]

That is almost exactly what I designed 2 years ago. Peter

[@hf8685]

New Brit Workshop - Actually you can drill a 48mm offset with the pins and the Guide Block. You have two positions for drilling holes and the are spaced at 48mm. The only thing missing would be the 32mm offset, if you absolutely wanted that. All is good. Great tool!

[@Marcus_Caius]

Thank you Peter for another excellent video and great tip. Sadly this approach to prevent damage over the 20mm holes works only with the Mark II. I have to find a way to do the same with the PGS original :)

[@NewBritWorkshop]

Hi Marcus, It can be done easily at the 3 mm hole stage. Peter

[@Marcus_Caius]

@@NewBritWorkshop Thank you Peter, I will have to figure out in my next top.

[@Phenrica]

Hi Peter, is there a way to revisit an already drilled 20mm table to add offset holes in? Cheers Steve

[@NewBritWorkshop]

We did look at this in a recent workshop notes video. Peter