Ogres wanting some of that Dragon meat

If you want to send me your disaster campaigns email it here. [e-mail]
Please only send campaigns on the verge of defeat or battles you can't win. Auto resolve wins won't be accepted. Modded campaigns are not currently accepted. Please only send campaigns/battles on large or ultra unit scale. Normal and small unit scale will not be accepted. Not currently accepting Realm of Chaos campaigns/battles.
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[@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149]

"Ogres wanting some of that Dragon meat" and that's how dragon ogres are born.

[@crsmith6226]

I’d read that story

[@Stephen-N]

You could say they shaggoth...

[@ZackShark1]

Alternate universe shrek

[@filipsz.8309]

What else do you think Zhao and Greasus were doing during that one negotiations

[@crsmith6226]

@@filipsz.8309 Miao and Greasus*

[@quint3ssent1a]

Legend being unusually polite, with all his will trying not to trash-talk whoever sent him this battle.

[@marcusanthony9322]

LTW "I'm not gunna tell you how to make your armies" me: "why the hell do I watch your channel then!"

[@TheCheat_1337]

My first IE campaign was Ogres (and I played them on the Chaos campaign too when WH3 first came out), for Greasus on Legendary a reliable comp for me was Greasus, Hunter, Firebelly, three Stonehorn Harpoons, four Leadbelchers, two Ironblasters, eight Ironguts. A more aggressive comp would be four Stonehorns, four Crushers GW, two Hunters one Firebelly and eight Maneater IF/GW depending on who you're facing. But I've always found at least some Leadbelchers and Ironblasters useful in 9/10 battles because they're just so good at shredding infantry.

[@daimpthing]

"God the Ogres are trash!" **Man who played enough to make Greasus Goldtooth LVL 48 without looking at what Greasus buffs, what he is good at, and with an Army that has units that dont compliment eachother.** Yea that tracks.

[@l_ArAxus_l]

Also LL lvl 48 on turn 120smth

[@12SickOne34]

When you're using a spoon to cut your meat, a spoon seems like a terrible tool.

[@pain002]

@@12SickOne34 more like a spoon to cut your steak and thinking "bro spoons are trash" 😂

[@Loj84]

@@pain002 ...that's what he said?

[@orbitalbutt6757]

@Pain Nightmare that is literally what he said

[@poh1617]

"At least I know how the AI feels when I'm wasting all their ammo..." Legend of Total War 2022. Wish I could get a list of your quotes for my load screen in WH3.

[@parmamon1285]

yeah, please someone does a mod like this

[@eshaan570]

“its better to crack the nut than to nut in the crack” from a while ago

[@BRBMrSoul]

As modder easy to add those quotes what’s hard is combing through hours of content and thousands of comments to find most relevant/comedic etc haha Tell ya what tho, when having nothing pending on my mods and if no one has yet, could toss that together for all the LOTW fans.

[@parmamon1285]

@@BRBMrSoul Here a quote for you: "single entity units are the best, except for the giant, because the giant is a giant piece of shit", LegendofTotalWar- Warhammer 3 Ogre Kingdoms Unit Roster Tier List

[@ElyrionX]

Sometimes you confederate a LL and you get frustrated at the AI messing up the skill tree and not picking the most obvious OP skills of that LL and you’d think to yourself that a human player would never do that. This guy right here just proved us all wrong lol.

[@Valivali94]

True, but thats what modding is for

[@LukasKain]

@@Valivali94 EXACTLY! I have friends that hate the modding scene bc they think it's only for making things OP. Modding is a la carte, and I think the game is only made better by utilizing like Mixu's mods, the ability to pay to repec a character once, and stuff like that.

[@Captaintrippz]

@@LukasKain Ah yes, better camera mod is pretty op.

[@lavitz0073]

What skills do you usually level up for a melee lord?

[@ilari90]

@@lavitz0073 defense, ward saves, speed (if necessary), hp (if viable), attack, wpn strenght, armour sometimes if needed, usually charge last.

[@jameshutchins9614]

Imagine using leadbelchers and saying ogres are bad

[@tutes0133]

Unreal

[@settratheimperishable4093]

Leadbelchers are really useful though, especially if you put points into the red line.

[@weaponizedlizardmen360]

@@settratheimperishable4093 ... He's saying their good...

[@pain002]

Leadbelchers can be pretty terrible when you dont use them well. The crumble in melee very easily

[@TheCheat_1337]

@@pain002 Yeah like all other artillery units, which is the point. They're slightly mobile, slightly more defensible artillery pieces (traditional ones and not the chariot based ones). Given a good firing position and effective blocking, they're essentially walking Organ Guns. You wouldn't say Organ Guns or Hellfire Rocket Batteries are "pretty terrible" because they'll die to literally any melee unit right? Leadbelchers are arty and should be used as such.

[@jaimeperales7219]

This guy must not fully understand the ogres or the game. We all gotta start somewhere 🤷‍♂️

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

Saying a character is bad instead of trying to understand it first is scrub mindset. Don't be scrubs guys.

[@Lis-ce2gx]

I think he doesn't understand the game in general. Spellcaster, army comp, campaign map. Kinda arrogant to claim an X faction is shit if you can't even take time to understand the basics.

[@graciaman]

All of this. That opening was frustrating to listen to. Hopefully the submitter takes time to learn how the game works

[@Meyna86]

I believe Legend himself admitted thinking the Skaven were crap until he figured out how to actually use them. The skill-point distribution alone proves that it's an inexperienced player who sent this in. No need to bash him for it.

[@weaponizedlizardmen360]

@@Meyna86 he only thought skaven were bad because they were bad. They only got good when they got their first dlc amd thats when legend did a 180° and is the cheese master he is today. Rattling gunners do that to a man. Secondly, yeah the person is obviously inexperienced but people are going to dunk on the person if they kick open the door and profain how bad something is when in reality, they are the ones doing/playing them wrong and didnt even TRY to understand how it works before even complaining. Inexperience can be resolved through practice. Impatience and stupidity cannot.

[@MatthewBrown-yu1hs]

thoughts from my Goldtooth campaign: - Greasus is too slow, which I guess is his "loreful feature" because he's so fat haha fat am I right - Definitely rock a bunch of Ironguts on his army at least, dirt cheap but a decent unit - Ogre garrisons are incredible, the first level garrison building on a minor settlement will stop most full stacks, you can even allow rebellions to happen to farm cash they're so reliably good - Firebellies are excellent, grab that Fire Mouth settlement asap to recruit high level ones very early - Pretty much all ogre units are good, even gnoblars can be good expendable units, or speed upgraded trappers peppering the back lines of enemy that ogres are engaging

[@AmorellaOfficial]

Few extra notes from myself - Camp maps are terrible for defending so you should be super careful with all of your camps -any ogre infantry works fine as a cavalry

[@MatthewBrown-yu1hs]

@@AmorellaOfficial Actually yes, I should have separated ogre settlement garrisons and camps. The ogre camp battle maps are ROUGH to fight in, I think in large part due to the size of ogre units. It's just a big pain in the ass to try to find good positioning.

[@JohnXina97]

The only thing that I would say that actually sucks about the Ogres is that their Auto Resolve value is a bit too low.

[@rave9532]

Which faction has good autoresolve?

[@daimpthing]

@@rave9532 I've had good auto resolve with the Empires when its 1v1 or 2v2, but never during settlement attacks or when outnumbered

[@JHouston62]

@@rave9532 Dawi, WoC, pretty much anyone with high armor

[@MrHomok]

@@rave9532 high armor or good range. Dawi, Wood Elves, High elves, kislev iceguard stack and so on. OH and ofc Skaven with their weapon teams

[@fittpappa687]

@@rave9532 Wood elves got stupid fucking AR sometimes. 14 garrison vs elite-ish full stack army with maybe 1 unit wipe.

[@tweehoren3641]

Bruh ogres are the kings of sieges, you can always just open walls with that ability and let the gnoblar stalkers cap te final point

[@AmorellaOfficial]

It even works against unbreakable units Took out a full stack of slayers by sneaking

[@pumblechook1505]

Best Ogre armies are just scraplaunchers and gnoblars. They get -50% upkeep from a Tech so you can just spam them out

[@gplr1882]

Especially if your lord has that unbreakable gnoblars big name

[@ValkynShade]

I love how respectful you handled the situation. I know too many people that would respond to an email or statement like that with insults and blaming or something, which is probably a testament to how toxic the community has become, but I always love people like you that not only stay respectful but also give VERY good advice

[@ZombieMaster64]

What I don’t understand is how people watch you so much and still be ass at the game. I literally learned everything from you.

[@daimpthing]

Mainly cause they try to mimic him and his skillset with all factions instead of catering to the races strengths and weaknesses. They think every race plays similar and so when they play another race and the tactics they used doesnt work, they think that race sucks

[@ZombieMaster64]

@@daimpthing I guess you are right, my guy invented an ogre weapons team army with cav holding the lines:D

[@pain002]

@@ZombieMaster64 when did legend ever use cavalry to hold the line though?🤨

[@chaos7535]

@@pain002 I'm sure he's had to at some point or other in the past, given he did it this time means there's a precedence for it. Though he's always trying to leverage the situation to his favor so it's probably why we don't see it. Either way this was an interesting choice for him to do as a video. I've learned something at the very least.

[@Lersion]

@@ZombieMaster64 I'm willing to bet he wasn't actually using cav to hold the line. Looking at that comp he was probably doing a 2 line checkerboard formation with Maneaters in the front line and leadbelchers in the second. Cav were probably to fight other cav and harass archers.

[@The_Maw_Hermit]

I see Ogres, I click like. Keep up the good work man! 👍

[@pit_shost]

Why does the finance panel look like chaos

[@bigcat5348]

You could save 15% or more on Ironguts

[@jean-edouardahmedozzi6120]

I don't understand those players willing to limit themselves with a battle timer.

[@erythroniumrene]

I use the timer cause even when the ai attacks me when I have artillery they will still just sit at the other side and force me to move forward. It’s just to get them to charge in my understanding.

[@jean-edouardahmedozzi6120]

@@erythroniumrene That's weird, the AI will always bee-line at you when attacking. And even on the defense, if you have missile superiority they will attack you too.

[@HoodieProduction]

@@jean-edouardahmedozzi6120 I actually play semi-defensive in all my battles even if I don't have artillery or very much range. If the AI doesn't have a clear numbers advantage it can be challenging to get them to take the bait.

[@MateoLemes]

only time I used timers was in Rome2 because the AI would bug out or something and the battle would never end. That's not needed these days I think.

[@pain002]

Sometimes especially in coop campaigns a war of attrition can be amazing when faced against gigantic odds. Surviving against the attacking ai until the timer runs out for a tie is an amazing feeling

[@pradipta1233]

I might be in the wrong but I don't think there is a shitty faction u just need to understand their strengths and weaknesses

[@antcig]

Currently I feel like some faction are way overtuned, but no one feel really weak. Khorne, Beastmen and Skaven have a lot of annoying mechanics, very good campaign mechanics, and powerful armies. They would dominate the world if CA didn't severely limit their agressivity. In Warhammer 2, giving Norska powerful garnison just like the Beastmen and the ability to corrupt their occupied land far more quickly would have probably be sufficient to make them balanced. Haven't tried them in WH3 but I fear they also overtuned them

[@WhichWazzockWantedEmailHandles]

I'd say Beastmen were shitty pre-rework, due to even multiturn recruitment being cancelled when a camp is discovered. But beyond that, you are right.

[@antcig]

@@WhichWazzockWantedEmailHandles, The Beastmen needed their rework, they were incredibly annoying to play before. But they went too far in the opposite direction, and I feel like they should remove or tone down some of their campaign mechanics. Playing them or Khorne, i feel like I am not using half of their power and I still decimate everyone around me with ease.

[@OriginalVoiceBox]

One of the biggest humps to get over as a total war player is learning that you can save yourself so much headache by just being aggressive

[@ramsey_ajr1702]

One of the humps I’ve finally gotten over and made my enjoyment of the game increase tenfold is learning to ignore auto resolve and trust your skills in a battle, I’ve won so many battles the game thought I should’ve been trounced in

[@klille]

those are some bad dragons the ogres want a mouthful of.

[@EdelesTTRPG]

🤨

[@smugnecron3891]

🤨

[@beastmenmain9198]

I'm assuming the player is new, Ogres are very good

[@killhimnotme9129]

They are ok not that amazing

[@fukyomammason]

To me it looks like someone who only plays one race trying to bend the Ogres to that play style instead of learning how they play.

[@erythroniumrene]

@@killhimnotme9129 they have some of the best armies lol. Cav doomstacks, inf doomstacks, artillery doomstacks. Can expand extremely fast cause of camps too. Noob proof in battle map too cause most army comps you can just charge in and easy win.

[@RyujinRoninReach]

Idk what this player was thinking I would’ve snatched up the camping perks immediately upon unlock its essential

[@dzej16]

No ironguts and MOST IMPORTANT no stonehorns. No wonders he dislike his campaign 🤣 Best part of ogres is when you get access to ledbelchers and stonehorns. Enemy's are just melting.

[@Live_For_Real]

You should do an Ogre campaign sometime. I am so bad at them and could use the cheese master's guidance.

[@pain002]

Bro didn't get burning head, didn't increase his camp size, had 1.4k in the bank at round 120+, while using, what can only be described as an anti synergy army. I mean how do you not go after a single battle "wow this doesn't work out at all" Or I guess that's when he just thought "ogres are trash"

[@RenegadePawn]

That was some really helpful and well-spoken analysis for the first part of the video :)

[@captc0ck5lap60]

_Gib dragussey_ Slaanesh, probably.

[@Kingkrock]

The problem for me with ogres is just that they don't feel like the mercenaries you want them to be. Like the missions are usually too far away and too long in between to feel fun. The rewards you get usually doesn't pay you remotely enough for it to be worth marching and army all the way there and declare war on a faction. And while camps are cool why can't you lend troops to other factions? Like they can send you a request for a few units in an army and pays you for the turns they are borrowed. Would match the ogre mechanic from warhammer 2.

[@Abysalss]

I hate how slow greasus is because when you click him he pulls up and Tokyo drifts and is clearly moving fast but then he’s fuckin slow as shit even with all the speed you can possibly give him you can’t even chase down an infantry unit, if he had some crazy nearly unbeatable melee skills maybe I’d understand but even when you get him in position he’s not all that good and gets swarmed easy

[@tima_fenix]

Legend,my Ogres

[@theStamax]

By god I can't believe the sfx for leadbelchers is that shit. Those sound like plastic toy guns

[@marcusturner3131]

Shout out to the fire mage Furt Stank

[@aldirnila6215]

I have no idea how someone could consider ogres as a "crap race". ^^'

[@skagsnoten]

Didnt you have one point to spend? For Lightning Strike?

[@THENemesisXX99]

And here we have another classic display on why a respec button is so desperately needed you know aside from the obvious one of properly allocating points on confederated lords heroes.

[@DaemonPrince]

Unless I missed it where the player describes how he uses this army, but if it were me with this army comp id use the pistols as the frontline since they can get a few shots off while cav cycles the sides of units I can hit

[@sympunny8636]

Yeah, i guess the issue is it's a huge waste, and is hurting his eco badly. Ironguts are much cheaper than the pistols in the first place, add in the with the 50% reduction from greasus and they're ridiculously efficient. They're also better at being a frontline with their higher armour, able to more easily tank. So he's wasting all that money and armour on a few shots before melee. And if you look at his current money, he could definetely use the cash!

[@DaemonPrince]

@@sympunny8636 absolutely, still a strange army comp to go for. I mean the persons army in the video not what you said.

[@sympunny8636]

@@DaemonPrince yeah, based on his comment, it seems he was trying to build ogres like a wh2 missile faction, more along the lines of skaven/empire/dwarves and not really paying attention to the ogres strengths, or greasus's buffs. He also gave up on using camps, hence why he didn't have the points, and why his eco was fairly bad.

[@dmitriyk.2890]

I still hope they'll make DLC for DLC with remaining Ogre characters and units. It is not many after all.

[@Jayton.Olerie]

What's the point of using Firestorm instead of Burning Head on single units if it hits only for a single second and then moves away?

[@RicardoSanchez-es5wl]

If they have armor, firestorm is always better but if they are lightly armored burning head can be better

[@Jayton.Olerie]

@@RicardoSanchez-es5wl Better for what lol? It hits for a second and then moves away from the unit. It's a complete waste of damage, doesn't matter if its AP or not. At the same time you can easily align a BH cast with your target and get at least some value.

[@dEcmircEd]

@@Jayton.Olerie on black orcs burning head would do squat. firestorm is high risk high rewards generally but better on such targets. on less armoured targets I agree burning head can be better

[@jessep3571]

@@dEcmircEd why not use piercing bolts of burning instead?

[@rursorrow2526]

@@Jayton.Olerie Firestorm has ridiculous dmg in comparison to burning head and even most other damaging spells in the game, that one initial second will most often than not outdamage a full hit of a burning head on armored units. I don't even like the spell that much, but I can't but acknowledge how absurd its dmg is. xD

[@LordSavok]

When possible we need a Rich Evans sound pack.

[@FandangoJon]

Rich Evans wants that juicy dragon Shaq meat.

[@sylvainprigent6234]

One thing I dislike about Warhammer 3 is how bad walls are. I would wish that walls were easier to defend : like infantry nor being able to right click and jump on ladders without defenders being able to contest them climb

[@sim.frischh9781]

One Button Reset. The solution to all this guy´s problems. At least in-game-wise. Rest is competence, but that´s not something one can cheat.

[@LordofIsleofTritone]

Imrik is probably the only LL that was able to beat one of my Caravan of Blue Roses zombie horde armies. I could kill Kholek without any trouble, but Imrik just would not break

[@totalwar-hamster4518]

Ironguts are basically their best unit. Way better than maneaters in practice. A full irongut spam with greasus beat almost anything just charging in

[@RicardoSanchez-es5wl]

Ironguts are amazing with Greasus

[@alirezarezaei2976]

Honestly, Ogres in their current state are in dire need of a small-sized war hound unit I know the sabertusks are there but they are considered large and as all know large troops are awful at chasing down stragglers And chasing down stragglers are essential for Ogres to activate their army-wide abilities

[@DesevPostMortem]

In campaign at least, you can recruit allied units for that Hounds from Ghorst can be recruited for instance if you need

[@alirezarezaei2976]

@@DesevPostMortem Yeah indeed but nothing fills the gap completely until a fully native unit come into play Because all other factions that have access to hounds have ways to buff them too specially in speed category Speed is the most important factor for hounds and that's why the poison chaos warhounds are the king of all utility units in warhammer 2 and 3 First because you can increase their speed to about 115 and second because they will reduce the enemy speed by 15% at contact Back in warhammer 2 when everybody was about creating dragon ogre shaggothes as WOC i always had 9 DOS in my armies and 6 poison chaos warhounds to complement the massive terror rout potential of the dragon ogres Nothing could beat my armies when i could split my forces in two and since my force was all fast and mobile i could divide dragon ogres in one and hounds in other and lord and 4 heroes in the third group The majority of the enemy always followed my dragon ogres and only a tiny force were always chasing my hounds which i could smash with flying goon squad of heroes and then hounds would tear them apart at the run And this was the most effective way of crushing overwhelming forces the enemy threw at me unless the map was small

[@DesevPostMortem]

Oh interesting, i wouldn't have put hounds and DOS together since DOS are already quite speedy, but by reading i can figures it works well ! In my plays (i play a lot vampire coast) their hounds are weaker than counts parts, but hey to chase down retreating enemies it doesn't matter that much. They works well with 4-6 deck gunners who shoots at enemy range to break them before letting the hounds having a snack out of them hehe

[@alirezarezaei2976]

@@DesevPostMortem Man if you never put poison war hounds with DOS together before you missed a lot of potential This combination was the most brutal combination i ever created in my whole career in WH2 after my Ghorgon plus poison warhounds doomstack under great bray shaman and razorgor chariot plus poison war hound doomstack under Khazrak as beastmen The preferences were the same but the differences was that Ghorgons are far superior unit to DOS because of their attack animations and beastmen can boost their speed to match up with DOS in WOC roster The criteria is the same though you need a speedy army that have two distinct but complementary unit type in it First you need a bunch of big scary and fast and super hard hitting monsters and second you need some super fast small-sized hound unit First one hit the enemy where they are most vulnerable and causing quick terror rout and second ones will capitalize on that and chase the fleeing enemy before they rally and wipe them out This will work perfectly fine against empire You can do ridiculous rush maneuvers with it and break the enemy with ease But against more solid armies like lizardmen and dark elves and high elves and dwarfs you just need to split the forces and let the enemy chase the stronger group and the weaker ones coming after your hounds and will get snacked by your flying goon squad of your heroes plus lord and then getting easily mauled by the hounds on their way out

[@DesevPostMortem]

@@alirezarezaei2976 I see, you know what ?i'll try that in my next campaign, i wanted to play chaos so ghorgons will have to leave the place for DOS and poison hounds ! Also does it works with the skavens ? Their poison hounds does AP damage and their monstrous unit ain't that slow, did you try it ?

[@TheCatthedragon]

Hey, I'm the guy who sent this battle in. Thanks for playing it, Legend. A few things I want to clarify: The reason I stopped building camps is because camps are the exact thing that slowed down my campaign. They are completely indefensible until they are built up, so unless they're buried deep inside your own territory you have to spend 20-30 turns babysitting them at enormous monetary cost. The game advertised being able to put camps in enemy territory so I made the mistake of thinking this was remotely a good idea. In fact one thing legend didn't touch on in the video was that even after garrisoning my camps with T5 maneaters, they just got cycle sieged anyway until they died, and you can see the remnants of one of my camps in the top right in the beginning. Camps cannot be assisted like traditional settlements, because they literally can't be built too close to traditional settlements to reinforce, and if you park an army outside the AI will just attack that army and you'll deny yourself the settlement defense battle. That's assuming they don't just bring 2 armies or lightning strike and deny your reinforcements altogether, because again, you can't put your armies inside camps. Even if you put them in a safe location, camps are still exorbitantly expensive, the tier 5 upgrade alone is 12000 iirc. Unlike black arks the area effects they provide are miniscule, something like 4% casualty replenishment or some garbage. Also unlike black arks, they can't move or aggressively assist in defending your territory. Had I just forgone camps entirely and expanded on cheap melee armies I probably could have expanded this far in half the time. So yeah, I didn't respect camps and was not putting points into them. Regular settlements aren't much better, it's about 12k just to wall off a regular settlement as well. While I respect the remark about ironguts being cheaper, and if I played ogres again I'd probably give Greasus an irongut army, at the time I was expecting the ogre economy to be a lot stronger and the upkeep reduction to not be necessary. Going in, when I thought "ogres", I was expecting a kind of trade baron faction that got absurdly rich playing both sides of the war, like high elves but able to deal with both order and chaos. The guy literally being named "Goldtooth" kinda reinforced this. That's not what I got, so my economy was a lot weaker than expected. Instead I got a faction that can't produce more than 200g per settlement unless it's a port, and requires a 50k investment into a camp to make a building that puts 1k back out. As for the actual units in the battle, I found them profoundly disappointing, since my hope was that the investment needed to get them would at least be worth it. Again, I was wrong, and you can see why in the video at places like 14:30 18:25 22:30. I kept watching my army of 14 gunpowder missile units try to shoot large entities out of the sky, only for them to deal next to no damage and for those large units to just land and shred my army. The crushers were supposed to defend against that (hence the great weapons) and they couldn't, they just got killed. Again, the faction didn't live up to my expectations, I was expecting my units to have ultra-heavy mass and be able to pin things down and dictate engagements. nope. The crushers would charge in on a dragon, and the dragon would just walk through and keep hitting my leadbelchers. I kept thinking "If I was playing skaven, or empire, or dwarves, or any other faction with strong range, those dragons would be dead as as soon as they entered my time zone". The ironblasters were the worst offenders, and you can see that in this video as they straight up lose balance of power trying to shoot everything from big hitbox dragons to nonmoving archers. I kept thinking "a highly inaccurate anti-infantry cannon unit... who is this even for? What unit is this supposed to deal with effectively?" Even Legend seemed to be laughing along at how bad the artillery was despite still claiming the faction is strong. Ultimately my opinion is that the ogre ranged units just struggle with damage output compared to other ranged factions, and it's because their low model count limits the number of missiles that they can fire. So that's basically what led me to quit. I spent 30+ turns with my finger in my butt defending a camp and pouring all my money into it just to get access to T5 units, only for those units to be wildly inaccurate garbage. Being the only cannons in the game that can't shoot a dragon, being the only 14-stack gunline that can't kill enemies before they get close. And honestly I didn't see anything in this battle that actually spoke in favor of ogres as a faction. "Dude just spam flame storm and bait the large units out 1 at a time and kill them so slowly that they still get a chance to land" doesn't exactly scream 'strong faction' to me. Any faction with access to fire magic could have played this battle the exact same way. This is supposed to be an end-game doomstack army and it ended up with what, 5-15 kills per unit on the gunline? Including the run-down phase? Money aside, this is how they would perform under a non-Greasus commander. And if "Dude, just ignore the ranged half of your roster and play a million settlement battles and ignore field battles" is the answer, that doesn't particularly sound like "strong faction" either. Legend was correct in that I was trying to avoid them. So yeah, hopefully that helps clear things up on my end and why I did the things I did. The faction just didn't live up to my expectations. I don't want to sound ungrateful to Legend for playing the battle, I did find it interesting and I do greatly appreciate the analysis. But with the way things stand, I don't think I'm gonna go back to ogres. Not until their camps are defensible and not until their big units are actually effective.

[@jardakkspiritfang5962]

I love your own analysis and detailed response. Good on you, mate! Not everyone will like the same race/faction. I hated playing Empire in WH2 because of the shitty elector count mechanic crap for example. Not a weak faction, just, annoying for me to play. You hating ogres for your own reason is no different.

[@sympunny8636]

20-30 turns babysitting camps? I never had even remotely that issue when playing greasus. Just put units in the camp and leave it to mind itself. You can have 80% cost reduction at tier 1, so you can leave a very substantial garrison in there for extremely little. Whenever I went on an offensive I put down a camp and gave it a decent garrison with a radius to cover as many of their settlements as possible. Gives me replenishment and recruitment even when in enemy territory, plus means I always have extremely high meat and can boost my units whenever necessary. You also don't need to boost them all to tier 5. Tier 3 is probably more gold efficient, for most camps, while still getting your hero cap up and decent gold from it. The last two lvls do cost a lot of gold, and are mainly just useful for recruitment. Another thing that makes camps very important, is they boost your settlement gold income. The more camps you have (even tier 3 ones) the more settlements give you. Without camps, settlements really won't give you that much. Obviously trade and prioritising getting trade resources is very helpful as well. If you're really struggling with an army, near your camp you can always make a lord, temporarily take most of the garrison from the camp, go smash that army, then return the garrison and disband the lord. As for units, they're not a primarily ranged faction, you don't want to go primarily missile units. Just go a mixture. Don't think of ironblasters as stationary traditional artillery pieces. Think of them more as mobile shotgun platforms. They have way better speed than any other artillery and can move around the battlefield to reposition wherever's needed. I find them particularly good at shooting cav and elite infantry. Which is why is very helpful to have a front line to tie up units, so you can shoot at the blobs that form. And using crushers to defend is a waste, they are honestly very good cav who're meant for attacking. Indeed most ogre cav are very good. I feel like you're trying to play them like the ranged factions you mentioned, (skaven, empire, dwarves) and using missiles as much as possible, rather than using a mixture of missiles, infantry and cav who complement each other. Stonehorns and stonehorns with harpoons are another great ogre unit, that also increases hunter capacity, and you can get as a mount for a hunter. And as for the ogre pistols, they're a hybrid unit, definitely not a primarily missile unit, indeed their melee stats are very solid. Their heroes are also excellent particularly hunters, and there's lots of different stacks you can make around them. They also have many units either with stalk or who can gain stalk, which is op particularly in settlement battles for secretly capturing points or setting up hidden ambushes in land battles. Just don't play them as something they're not (ie a primarily ranged faction). Instead you want to be charging, with your strong infantry and cav, and using your missiles as support. I'm playing legendary difficulty greasus currently, and absolutely smashing all the factions around me and growing my camps fast. Once you get the camps and trade resources going, your economy definetely gets much better, not the best in the game ofc, but certainly not trash tier.

[@Laucron]

Wish the leadbelchers made more damage to single entities. It's kinda dumb how a cannonball firing squad doesn't rip them to shreds in seconds

[@anthonycernik6548]

If you use a strong weapon that you don’t know how to us very a terrible weapon that you know every inch of than that faction is going to suck (except the Empire which suck no matter what right now)

[@rogofos]

its like playing as tiktaq'to and never using terradons like what are you doing with your life man

[@Witch_King]

Ulthuan maps in Dark Lands? Seems legit to me

[@Omnissias]

Had an ice map in the desert today. Small independent company :(

[@daimpthing]

Its based on settlement type. Since this is where Imrik starts, its an elven settlement type

[@Witch_King]

@@daimpthing yeah, forgotten Elven Colony in Darklands

[@evanescentdoom2629]

i had the same problem but i just backed off this city and ambushed him when he came out to go siege my stuff.

[@septimustavi9352]

Beginning of this video reminds me of when I was playing High and Dark Elves in Immortal Empires...predominantly Shades (great weapons)/Sisters of Avelorn with some artillery. Use the artillery to take out some of the wall towers and then just use ALL of my ammunition trying to shot...well...pretty much anything I could. Once all the ammo is gone send the Shades/Sisters in. 1 army could take out 2 armies easily with only a few losses. Vampire Counts (Ghorst) is much more, yolo nearly the whole army in (all the zombies anyway) and send to the crypt ghouls and doggos around capturing points as much as possible. Have won some by capturing and holding the capture points (including in minor settlements) and won others by triggering the army losses (some units waste a heap of time going and recapturing the points rather than fighting my army). Just got to play to each factions strengths when it comes to sieges.

[@chourtout]

thanks for the advices i have a hard in late game against real strong armies mastorocs are just not good enough

[@andreasaa2000]

Bro what is that skill tree. What the fuck is this guy doing?

[@arby456]

Is there a way to look at the city without having to go into a siege battle?

[@mightypanda5768]

yes, there is a button on the left of the auto resolve button that loads the map for you

[@spencermorgan2281]

Oh Jesus, I'm getting flashbacks here. Imrik is just stupidly powerful.

[@mariowattimena6245]

Siege battle is tiresome and boring. Its also very hard for me to play vampire coast in siege battle since they lack rush units unlike ogres. I hope one day legend would stream coast so that I can learn how to use gunpowder units more effectively in sieges.

[@sympunny8636]

It's not so difficult. In walled settlements, you want to bomb the walls with artillery, while advancing with your infantry. Basic chaff zombies and heroes tank the approach fire. Then once you are through the gate, your depth guard and heroes can really start to get to work, while the zombies tank. Your mortars can bomb the blob that forms around your blob. In the meantime, you advance with your handgunners and scale the walls. Then shoot down from their own walls and the enemy will crumble away. Mornghuls are also very useful stalk units to capture major victory points without the enemy noticing. In fact, often if you use them carefully, you can capture the city without firing a single shot, stalk is really op in sieges! In settlements without walls, you want to leave firing lines while you advance, so when you engage the enemy there is still room for your handgunners behind to shoot. So make your front line quite compressed. Again mortars can bomb from ages away, and mornghuls can stalk capture victory points. It's particularly useful for the majority of the handgunners to follow behind a hero core, which is much easier to shoot through.

[@drupiROM]

Just finished my second Warhammer III RoC campaign with the Ogres. I thought i would not like them, but they quickly became one of my favorite races and the only one i can think of that would be effective to combat deamons IRL(if it existed). I can;t see humans or elves having the mental and physical power to battle deamons and their spawn. PS: this guy played badly this campaign, it reminds me of how bad i played my first Skaven campaign 5 years ago when THW 2 came out.

[@wesmantooth32]

I really like the idea of Ogres, but think CA just kind of half assed them. WOC getting a better Big Name mechanic, contracts being shit, slow/clunky Legendary Lords, and limited Lords and Heroes just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for a "DLC" race.

[@drupiROM]

@@wesmantooth32 I agree. Maybe they do it on purpose :) so that they can come in a few months/years and release a rework just like Beastmen got. I got them as a pre-order bonus and the game was about 40 Euros, so it was a nice bonus for the money.

[@wesmantooth32]

@@drupiROM I just don't think it is fair to compare them to a WH1 faction. Our expectations should be TK, VC, reworked Beastmen, reworked WOC. The state Ogres are in should just be a base faction. Instead they are charging $12 USD for them now. That is fucking ridiculous.

[@drupiROM]

@@wesmantooth32 Vote with your wallet. It's the only thing big companies care about. And if CA keeps it's promise to support TWH 3 for years to come. Then there is plenty of time with patch XYZ to rework the big boys. The alternative is that they do a Three Kingdoms and abandon the Warhammer setting. I would forgive them if they did it for a 40K setting though :)

[@cipsahoy9639]

My only complaints about the ogres are that the contracts are not worth it AT ALL and that every unit costs a meat. It’s really annoying in the early game to especially that all your low tier units are costing you so much meat to maintain. I remember in the realms of chaos campaign i went into the demon realms and actually had to leave after getting negative and losing too many entities to attrition. It was ridiculous

[@sympunny8636]

true the contracts could be better. I find meat is much easier on IE than RoC, since you aren't forced away from your camps with the rifts. With careful camp placement, and even one or two non-trade resource provinces being dedicated to meat you're normally high meat throughout the game.

[@andrewkomlyev4877]

sieges as ogres are rather easy use their ability to destroy all gates get gorgers through the back cap point. voilà. very hard very hard half stack of ogres destroys tier 4 city with full stack in it. it is time consuming though.

[@Nobdythere]

I don't my mind siege battles with ogres and beastman. I enjoy making the AI loose entire stacks with next to no loses.

[@woodwalker7129]

Idk, but ogres are stomping. Easiest A tier faction.

[@skeenerbug601]

Ogres, my lord!

[@zaneblightcaller7298]

Sounds a little sus

[@KiiLNER]

Why not just use the army ability to destroy the towers on the walls?

[@leegibson5469]

I love crushers. Even playing Greesie.

[@brumbi9616]

Okii police

[@vilidious]

I like walled city sieges with dwarves. Just poke a hole in the wall with artillery, fill the hole with flamethrowers, maybe use LL as bait in the fort and in front of flamers... and a bit of master engineer to keep ammo etc. up. Gives orc "waagh!" a different meaning. :).

[@pain002]

They kind of stop taking the bait after a while though

[@HardcoreSalmon]

This is like a medieval siege against a fortress. Just a massive war of attrition

[@jakecain5107]

Really liked the intro portion of this. Good on you for the awesome content as always

[@blakehall9391]

be sure to click on the ads to get legend that sweet ad money

[@KiiLNER]

Sending leadbelchers into melee xD

[@MsGuinhodias]

Alternate title: Greasus gets the whole Dragussy

[@kilercola]

Is legend streaming today?

[@quinng3870]

Ogres want some bad dragon meat 😏

[@simpleman3898]

Wow lots of detail, love it

[@Lost7one]

this is what happens when an incredibly bad player sends a save over to a top tier player.

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@gavburger]

The best advice for Ogres is to put 4 units of Gnoblar trappers in the army - they could've snuck in and capped the victory point without ever engaging the Elves. Mass your forces at one wall and send the Gnoblars over the opposite point. The AI doesn't react to stalking units capping points if they don't see them.

[@NightFoory]

I didn't know you're a furry

[@shortyhighlife6332]

Love you Legend wuhuu

[@beefcake1876]

First