Oh The Drama - SaltEMike, Marcus & Morph | Star Citizen

[@marcuswynn89]

In the live stream we also came to the conclusion that buffing the ion and inferno could potentially stop a single pilot A2 bombing run

[@Nick-wx9ty]

Isn't THIS the damn truth...i HATE what they did to those ships.

[@gyratingwolpertiger6851]

I'd also argue requiring a bombardier station to be crewed, upping the bomb cost to say 100k per and not reloading the bombs when claimed back would also drastically help

[@marcuswynn89]

@@gyratingwolpertiger6851 you would have to do that for every ship

[@Leadnap]

Yes - we HAD tools to negate the power of the A2 but some people had to get upset about that too!

[@gyratingwolpertiger6851]

@@marcuswynn89 As far as I am aware there's only one A2 type ship in game. Those measures are to counter the solo suicide runners who bomb, crash the ship and then expedite claim the ship to avoid paying reload costs

[@blacksheepwall79]

4:41 multiple smaller ships is usually preferable because you can project over a wider area and it helps mitigate losses. Redundancy is your friend.

[@Mike5Brown]

Response videos are fine there are always points that we don’t get across clearly enough and an opportunity to clarify is always nice. I think the A2 drama is starting to veer into content creators are just keeping it up because the beef gets views and doesn’t take that much effort.

[@maestrom7531]

I find Medium ships suit what I do now and what I think I will do in the future. The idea of Balance is fine if it based on some logical reason...

[@windyozoner7077]

i do not understand why ppl make dramas at this stage of game development. it is no doubt re balance will come in place and all might change. Lets enjoy what we have now and, if you can't, just make a pause and come back later. peace :D

[@The_E_Paladin]

I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head on all points.

[@Leadnap]

Thank you

[@diminios]

Drama can be both good and bad. Good in that it draws attention to a problem... but usually bad in the *way* it draws attention to a problem.

[@Capt_Shaun_Solo]

I agree 100%. How can you be mad about a ship doing exactly what it was designed to do? Nerfing the A2 would just be another Ares Ion incident that would make it completely useless. Area Ion was supposed to be slow fire, big damage. Its suppose to one shot light fighters if they fly into its crosshairs. The balance would be to make it bad at dogfighting through maneuverability. Instead we got a low damage repeater with a spread like a shot gun. An A2 that couldn't take a hit on the way to the drop zone would be the same thing. Let it do its job and if you are worried about getting bombed, then take the necessary measures to counter it.

[@nothingtolookat276]

On the point of scoops and refineries, I never understood why the 400i doesnt have the tech the 100i's have.

[@Anubik001]

Kamikaze was in WW2 a legit strategy, SC is WW2 in space, dont see a problem

[@tripperdan]

Thanks Leadnap, I've enjoyed rational conversations from different perspectives. It's refreshing

[@Leadnap]

Glad to hear it!

[@jerrylove865]

Good luck on getting the subscriber target.

[@IceyJones]

CR makes HIS dream game. that does not mean that it will cater the masses. this has been very clear from the start....

[@0Metatron]

Absolutely Perfect constantly moaning about PVP for instance and calling for a god mode or anti PVP servers are completely arguing against that vision and going against the spirit of the game entirely

[@verdigris3122]

There are enough known counters to the A2 that there's no need for a "balance pass" (spelled N-E-R-F). Well reasoned here.

[@TheRealBillix]

Yeah and when sc is more complete you won't see an a2 bombing lawful players very often

[@Nick-wx9ty]

I have never watched @Marcus Wynn before, thanks for the link Lead! I love finding new creators through existing creators i like.

[@Leadnap]

Certainly.

[@justinburrough6400]

Completely agree with you on the A2, it’s designed for its intended purpose as I’m sure other ships will be at countering it

[@trenton4854]

Great Vid, always enjoy the content.

[@marcjensen9080]

The biggest counter to the A2 is to simply move. That's so true. Everyone knows what's likely to happen when an A2 appears on the radar. All we need is a call out.

[@Ocmersh]

plus morph was in an anti fighter platform. rather than something like a ballista

[@AJGibbs-ge2kp]

The whole concept of the game is that there is always a way to get something done, unfortunately, Morph didn't plan for a kamikaze, doo-doo happens, hopefully, he and his organization will just plan better, or maybe it'll be 2 A2's lol. Learn and adapt, it's part of the allure.

[@captjaders]

That's one of the main issues I have with Content Creators that have been following/backing SC from the start, they are living in the past regarding the game's development and where we are today and where we will be going in the future. Any game with this long of a development model is bound to have changes from the original concept, and its the lack of the content creators to adjust to the changing development of the game. All I hear is them crying "this is not what they stated in 2014,15,16 ect is what the game was going to be, Well no shit Sherlocks....

[@esdee108]

A lot of this is also relevant to the state of fighters due to the low level implementation of damage, armor, and hit points that so heavily favors light fighters. The Hornet, especially the Super Hornet, the ship(s) that sold the game 10 years ago, are not only in a terrible place due to the current game state, but their future potential is muddled by many of the upcoming systems and their own interactions especially because of the “game balance” decisions that make many of its features and performance obsolete

[@MarkMT]

Good points and arguments in the video :) I often take on the discussion of what kind of ships are "better" in the way of what will provide the most diverse options for gameplay. I hear many saying "bigger is better" and that ships like the Merchantman, Orion, Polaris, Endeavor and Kraken is what is needed to "win" and that these players expect that they will be able to fly these ships more or less solo (only some NPC crew and no human crew) and that it will earn them tons of credits. I just don't see that happening... and if it will be a thing, I still think it would be a more enjoyable experience when crewed with a team of human players setting this up as a joint mission where everyone share the "spoils"/income from the mission (NOT just one person exploiting everything for him-/herself).

[@limitedrespawns]

There has been a massive hole in SC content, good to have you back

[@marktvcturner2448]

Great video as always. On the original A2 video, did it actually drop a bomb? Or just plough into the mountain and explode? The earth shattering kaboom seemed to be missing. :)

[@Fetor]

Morph is entitled.

[@GoodLordNo]

Yes, he is, and you are both, entitled to your opinions and the common decency of respect that most people afford.

[@Fetor]

@@GoodLordNo I don't respect grown men who cry over (incomplete) video games.

[@GoodLordNo]

@@Fetor Fair enough. I’m not judging you, and I did say, “the .. respect that most people afford.” Thanks, Fetor.

[@cohan88]

@@GoodLordNo Streamer bratism is a thing. It should be called out. Suck it up.

[@keldornify]

The guy apologized and though he wasn’t exactly on the mark with “it can’t be stopped” he made some good points. Discussions that can improve the final product are worth having.

[@duvelske]

Quite honestly the a2 (pilot only) is easy to destroy or to counter. Even more with the centurion if you just simple shoot on the falling bombs.

[@Red_ger]

You nailed it. At least in my eyes. Though we all theorycraft but in the end, we have no idea yet how it will be balanced finally (fire, maintenance, repair ...)

[@JP-lj4lv]

I really enjoy watching your videos and hearing your perspective

[@Leadnap]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@dianeweaver8379]

Great comments on Theory Crafting. I have been suckered in to the concept ship mystique one too many times. Thank you for the objective viewpoint.

[@shrapnelface5978]

Remember that time that morphs org took jt, then all grouped together and kept all their drugs in that location in the open instead of taking multiple trips on smaller ships, then he got exploded and lost all that time... lol that was classic

[@Grim-HEX]

Pretty much the best way to counter an A2 is move... myself with 4 other people have managed to hold JT.. We would sit there for hours with the building being stocked to to brim, but in the end we would still make it out with several million in drugs.. 1 to pull drugs, 1 to move the drugs, 1 to check the door... When that door shows action its all defensive mode inside the bunker till the threat is neutralised then back to business, 1 to fly the ship loaded with drugs, and 1 to keep a lookout. When the money ship is requested, the 3 people from inside the bunker quickly load the ship, with the pilot moving the moment danger is noticed.

[@Kapnoullas]

A great deal of thought went into this. Great video.

[@Leadnap]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@jwg72]

Yup, at some point they'll pivot (from large orgs and people who pay a large amount for a ship) to a more numerous casual base... once they are closer to release.

[@51ghardy]

I agree that fielding the right defenses are key to repelling attackers. Put up a cap above JT and pay them a percentage of the profits. Easy peasy.

[@gammaprysem]

Literally this was my exact arguement on the whole situation but often got told "what would you know you don't make content" no I don't rn but have been closely following and playing SC and keeping up with ship metrics.

[@Embarkation1]

Well reasoned. I like the A2 a lot. It’s very expensive with real £ and not worth it… but it is cool.

[@Leadnap]

A point I have regularly made - but if you spent the money, why not take it to JT? I own it for sentimental reasons, otherwise I've often stated the A2 is far too expensive and niche to be useful for most players. I do enjoy it as a cargo hauler though.

[@DerDrecksack87]

@@Leadnap exactly, the only thing it has going for it is to bomb jumptown, i really can't be mad for that nor i want to take the single thing away it has going for it or make the use of it unnecessarily complicated & i think it is perfect as it is now, or even in the future for that matter, as "huge" ground battles will seldomly be a common thing, even if we had the ability, most of the fighting will still take place with ships. People should enjoy being on the giving AND recieving end, it shows how much is possible and how far we came from a hangar-only game, the joy of that overpowers any bad feels i might have in pvp, nevermind the admiration for the player who outsmarted you in a standoff situation, i just can't be mad for that.

[@inventor75]

Seeing both sides of the A2 argument is interesting.

[@Maxxmentum]

I so agree, the one time I captain an A2....targeting and making out alive was rough....made it fun .

[@Poseidon-ve4vr]

All valid points as always, good to see you still kicking after the move and such. :)

[@jakejewkes6688]

Bro amazing perspective on the whole thing solid video ma dude

[@Leadnap]

Glad you think so!

[@doogbattlesmoke]

I think you put a well thought out statement that i can honestly agree with.

[@Leadnap]

Thanks

[@captc0ck5lap60]

Sod bombs, crew up the A2 and fit it with AD5Bs on the remote turrets and pilot weapons. Absolute beast and can out range almost anything at 2.8kms.

[@Jeremy_Walker]

NPC crew will have to be 95% of the ships in the verse. Very few players will consistently want to play a minor role in someone else's story.

[@Leadnap]

Yep, but there will be a lot of expense to do so where human players in theory you could get away not paying

[@Jeremy_Walker]

@@Leadnap Agreed on the pay, but necessary. Would you sit in a carrack turret seat for hours while I go explore a planet in the pices Tuesday 5-7 Friday 6-9 Sun 2-4:30… The fleet battle scenario makes sense for player crewed ships, but day to day gameplay isn’t practical for it. And people would lose their minds if they were stuck with small ships and couldn’t access larger ships without being reliant on other players.

[@Malember]

Awesome video. You make some very good points.

[@jklyghter7597]

Always love how you put out your point of view, make it clear that it is YOUR point of view, and encourage viewers to also seek out alternatives. Silo'd discussions accomplish nothing

[@Leadnap]

Thank you

[@RayGic]

Agree with the points you made, great video!

[@dwayneholloway9364]

I don't play jumptown as I'm terrible at FPS (I play a spaceship game for the spaceships). I do however love watching others play JT and have been known to fly near-ish in a cheap ship and watch the event unfold as well as watch other content creators. The disruption caused by the A2 is hilarious however There's a certain other creator who caused even more disruption with just a railgun. I can only imagine the frustration of the org trying time and time again to retrieve the drugs only to have the pick-up explode. Does this mean we need to nerf the railgun too or do we just take a breath, pull up our big girl pants and continue playing the video game. Well done Lead. As always, love the content and the ensuing discussion.

[@Prushbinger]

a good and logical take on all the stupid drama

[@firstjayjay]

I do think that the current game we need the A2 and other ships to, once you have spent your payload u cannot reclaim the ship and get new payload, it has to be bought. That will make the use of MOAB's more balanced. Well that is my thought

[@timvictor8926]

The expedition ships will be capable of travelling far and remaining out for long periods. They’ll be tweaked in terms of fuel and life support for this to be the case. There’s no reason to believe they won’t be capable.

[@joesgotmore]

I get the frustration Morph had in the moment. People shouldn't dunk on him so much imho

[@0waverunner0]

this. he was heated and in the moment. i bet every single person playing any game out there has done the same...i know i have.

[@indospartan]

This! I always see those outburst as an opening into a viewpoint, and a counter to that one. Like this vid is. Seeing things from multiple views is how you really find solutions. The fact that these things are even possible ingame nowadays is a fact we just need to enjoy.

[@Leadnap]

He was heated, but he wasn't in the moment anymore - based on the fact he was playing it back from Premier, over and over. At the same time, though it sounds cliche, he has a greater responsibility to wield his influence. I've had plenty of angry moments, I don't fault him for that. Thing is he has a massive audience, it is the "influence" side of "influencer" and his anger and frustration can lead to action in a way that the average gamer doesn't. As content creators we all live a sort of "public" life and while I would never criticize something he said in private or about him personally - he put out multiple videos about the need to nerf the A2 based on what really turned out to be a non-event. HE put that into the space where it's been picked up. It wasn't just this one video but multiple videos, which is part of the reason that this hasn't just blown over.

[@0waverunner0]

@@Leadnap I kinda agree with him. The A2 is kinda op for ground attack in that way. At least right now, when the ships we had to combat that were nerfed into the dirt. Cig honestly needs to remove their heads a bit. 😂

[@indospartan]

@@Leadnap werent the multiple vids a response to the commotion of his comment during his stream? Correct me if i'm wrong. I do get the concern about having a huge following, the last decade have proven that point and I do get your point about the "public" eye. But being realistic, how much is going to change? There are so much more problems that are voiced over and over and nothing has changed ingame. Balance of a ship or something this early in development is a drop in an ocean imho. His opinion should not have any say in the development. CIG has more than enought to do I think. That said; That does not mean people should not say things. His views made a point, so does yours. Even if I disagree for a nerf. That does not make me automaticly agree with it being the way it is now. The evolution is a long road. If this was gamebreaking I get the commotion. If this was full release same. All your opinions about the subject makes all parties and viewers more educated, and give more insight into tactics, do's and don'ts. Hell, you can even look at it like this. Because he said that stuff, more people are finding new ways to stop the bombers, and bombers are finding new ways to bomb. THAT is gameplay. And imho where this sort of sandbox in space is all about. And like I said in a comment before; without all this I would not have found more Star Citizen content creators. Keep it up, very nice vids and topics.

[@TairnKA]

I feel the need for development (by Org?) for an Exploration Fleet, consisting of various ships for specific needs and multi-purposes to fulfill a long range and duration mission.

[@TheJCG9]

SaleT Mike… now I can’t unhear it. :)

[@SundayPriest]

Thank you for the content!

[@Leadnap]

My pleasure!

[@Rap-o33]

I am the proud owner of a Javelin and Idris-k. But in my org, i am the only one with those ships sho i am not worried about getting crew.

[@frapwaam5964]

What drama in SC? No way! Good to see back anyway.

[@andyandreson3989]

Large crewed ships should absolutely be more capable than a small single seater. That’s my opinion. As for th A2….. if you have a group larger than 5 people there really is no excuse when you get MOAB’d.

[@jamesdunn581]

Thanks for your views. Good food for thought.

[@TheThunderbladee]

The whale holding the bomb with a troll smile. Nice thumbnail LOL. Did you draw that?

[@Leadnap]

I modified it, the whale was Morphs whale.

[@spcrowe]

Love the A2, nobody touch my baby

[@indospartan]

Great vid. Without Morpf I would not have found your vid, and without you I would not have found Marcus. So win for me, because I can't get enough of star citizen content. Haha I know, glass half full kinda guy.

[@wiggyone]

Nice to see you back - it's been a while. I think the calls for the A2 to be nerfed are a bit bloody silly when the game combat mechanics are nowhere near complete yet. Right now, it's all working okay and seems to be in a good place to iterate upon. When we get all the combat mechanics sorted, with armour, NPC crew and more - only then will some adjustment one way or another be needed.

[@steelslayer8506]

As a person who has no lifed the A2 for 7 months, i can tell you that it makes my blood boil when people talk about nerfing the a2 when the have never used it.

[@famousblack05]

I agree, with the notion that if the smaller ship can do it all then why ever go to a bigger ship. If every ship can server the same function then we lose out on what makes anyone ship unique. We end up with a bunch of rehashes of the same thing with a new skin. At that point why bother getting a larger profile to accomplish the same goal. There should be a noticeable impact on the outcome of the game loop to justify it. And no not every situation should the bigger ship equal the better ship. Like a scout ship or a ship intended to steal data or hack would probably be suited for a ship that you dont notice due to its small profile and emissions output. And as how to deal with A2s, Im just going to leave this here>>> kzbin.infox6oyO80itLU?feature=share

[@Yangmeista]

Great comments! Subbed 👍

[@twonky6909]

Good points as always!

[@whowhowhowhowhowho8139]

I like when people don't give up their dreams. There is no hero, rich person or famously know whom didn't.

[@whowhowhowhowhowho8139]

Did.***

[@GoodLordNo]

I get it. Nobody likes to be nerfed. Here again is something that was originally argued, that I don’t see people rebutting it, address, and that is, a PROPORTIONAL level of effort to defend against the level of effort to make the attack. Saying the A2 can be stopped by a fully manned Hammerhead, or torpedo carrying air defenses (did you see the over 100 flares and chaff on the A2?), or surface to air defense vehicles? Yes, ONE kamikaze A2 bomber can be stopped by ten or more players in a crewed Hammerhead, Eclipses and Ballistae. But what was argued from the start, was a comparison of the PROPORTIONAL levels of effort of the attacker and defenders.

[@Leadnap]

Yup.

[@riggaden4248]

Great video, good job.

[@Leadnap]

Thanks!

[@SingleTrack66]

Very clickbaity however I’m glad I listened. You make perfect sense

[@Leadnap]

Thanks. It is always a challenge to not come off too clickbaity but at the same time drive people to the video via the thumbnail and title.

[@Sacred421]

I 100% agree. I'm tired of seeing KZbinrs complain about Star citizen because they're not fast enough at creating the content that they want. Or constantly ranting about a game mechanic that they themselves don't understand. I've made a lot of money with a three-man crew at jumptown.

[@zenairzulu1378]

great points

[@jmcorp8021]

Absolutely agree

[@keldornify]

Fully crewed ships will be required much more when all the multi crew functions exist

[@Rumline7]

Yes, but raising the crew requirements for large ships is only going to hinder their adoption even more. Currently there is precious little reason to crew any ship, let alone fully, when that 7-crew Hammerhead would be more effective at defending JT as 4 light fighters and 3 ballistas. Until the game's balance is shifted such that large ships have a clear advantage, requiring an engineering crew is just going to drive even more people to light fighters.

[@keldornify]

@@Rumline7 you are right, but it is happening anyway. Step one will be the power management system we are about to get, and it will rapidly escalate from there until it is an extreme version of sea of thieves

[@Elvalley]

It's a hell of a careful balance that has to be achieved between allowing people to have jack-of-all-trades solutions and having people actually use all the gorram ships they have made and intend to make. Is a jack of all trades too good? Nobody will care to specialize. Is it too bad? Good luck gathering a crew. *However*, the latter scenario is less likely to be detrimental to the game's overall intended experience, so I don't expect them implementing many "ships that are able to do everything" any time soon. But I may be sorely wrong here, as usual.

[@Leadnap]

It’s simple really - you can be a jack of all trades but a master of none. Take repair as an example- the Carrack is capable of repairing components by hand in a workshop and (without the loop we don’t know how) making repairs to its own hull and systems. The Vulcan on the other hand is more capable and is able to more efficiently repair other ships and their parts. Same as I can cook but I couldn’t get a Michelin Star. The ability for me to cook doesn’t negate the value of people who went to culinary school.

[@Elvalley]

@@Leadnap I don't think it's really all that simple, although there are ways of making it less of a pain. Of course in your example things are more clear-cut, because we're comparing the ability to perform maintenance on one's own ship (the capabilities of a Carrack as is) with repairing entire ships. In the same vein, a ship being able to mine and process just enough quantanium to keep its exploratory mission going (regardless of efficiency) shouldn't be a deal breaker, but the moment you can, say, discover new places, detect their resources and exploit them for profit with a single ship... That's when you have to start to balance all the variables very carefully as a game designer/dev. That's also why I think tweaking the balance towards the generalists being "barely good enough to get the job done" is the safer bet. Lone wolves and small groups with a preference for doing everything will *always* find them useful even if they're not anywhere near as good as getting a fleet of specialists. Large orgs on the other hand wouldn't have an incentive to build fleets of specialists if the difference in returns from such fleets (vs fleets of generalist ships) weren't large enough to cover the extra expense from having to maintain a well oiled logistics network.

[@citizen_brimstone3113]

Nice recap.

[@Libertas_P77]

Blasphemy.. the Carrack is the nearest we have to ‘the God ship’ in the verse for now, that’s for sure..

[@haze.x3342]

Great video!

[@Leadnap]

Thank you

[@Deathtrooper177]

you have earned my respect

[@Leadnap]

Thank you, that means a lot.

[@amd1031]

Great job keep it up 👍🏾

[@eparock]

well said sir...

[@kyleturner6965]

Where's your next cinematic!!! They are amazing)

[@blackcobra8849]

Hello , I agreed with you 100% . Saltmike doesn’t know his as* from a hole in the ground. I also believe in imagination, . I believe that , there should be 2 size 5 on the nose turret of the MSR. THAT STILL DOESNT MAKE THE MSR A FIGHTER OR WARSHIP.

[@KingPWNinater]

So toxic for no reason. What is this community coming to?

[@LordRydag]

Everybody gets shitty and goes on balance rants after dying. Its a normal part of gaming, but this just that, a rant. it happened to be on video and people took was was just angry ranting as a serious suggestion, which in turns cases people to double down and defend their rant.

[@luftwolf7405]

so much salt these days... would have been an enormous wealth in medieval days. ;-)

[@blacksheepboyz]

Nice share.

[@Leadnap]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@addis504]

Well said!

[@Leadnap]

Thank you

[@taarcks223]

I think the A2 is not the problem, in the Video of Morph they had enough time to liftoff, if there were a pilot in each of the seats of the landed ships. So i don't see the point of his video, only thing I have seen is an unfortunate situation awareness.

[@Greg99rock]

I think 2 bombs for the A2 is fair.

[@brianmason4595]

We need anti-air flak guns

[@Astral_-_King]

On point

[@ArterialCanine]

The game is yet far from being fine tuned and balanced. I believe CIG has done a tremendous job so far with no one stand out. As the game develops so will the balance evolve. Everyone will be upset at one point or another when the dice don’t fall in their favour.

[@Cozzyhane]

Let’s be honest here. A2 owner here and I think I am having too much fun ruining other people. I am pretty sure anyone on the other side of the stick has the right to complain with how easy a solo pilot like me can wipe out people on JT again and again.

[@AdjudicatorBrbal]

The drama i recently had was these cake boys lured me into a back and forth trash talk. Then because i one the trash talk they screen shot my text in the chat and blacked out theres and reported me!!? And CIG locked my account for three days!!? Wtf!?

[@garrettlehman5701]

Comment

[@Libertas_P77]

Morphologis is entitled to be pissed off that the stupid dynamics of the verse right now mean a dumb ass can suicide bomb a PvP zone and get a cheap thrill out of killing large numbers of other players without any skill, and ruin hours of their own play and prep time. However that’s not to say I agree with ‘nerfing’ the A2 either, there just needs to be dynamic and balancing tweaks made - and real consequences to behaviour like this, so that there is a meaningful cost. There’s none right now.

[@0waverunner0]

what is the fun of a ship that does it all? ....sorry, but i have to agree with mike on this one.

[@Richard_Cranium]

Morph is just wrong. Orgs that plan ahead for A2's at JT don't seem to have a problem with a solo player in an A2. They just send that player back to respawn.

[@Leadnap]

Exactly - and with half the size of the crew he brings with him.

[@ericwatson9152]

Also…I find it funny that you bad mouthed reaction videos (one of which called you out) and then went straight to reacting to another content provider.

[@Leadnap]

I’ll start by saying that if you watch SaltEMikes video through you’ll see he agreed with me. I’m not sure I would call that “calling [me] out.” At the same time this isn’t a reaction video - which is a video where you are down in the bottom corner talking through a video that generally you’ve never seen before and filming your reaction throughout. This was a response video - you’ll note I never imply what one of them thinks, knows or believes.