Why Can’t Cyclists Just Use The Damn Sidewalk?

[@TommyJonesProductions]

Why can't cars just drive in the dirt?

[@YTPartyTonight]

Why can't drivers just drive their cars on the damn sidewalk?

[@AtomikNY]

In all seriousness, there probably should be a lot more gravel and dirt roads out there. We spend a ridiculous amount of public money maintaining the pavement on low-traffic country roads, mostly to appease car owners who don't want to slow down a bit or get their cars a little dirty.

[@Banom7a]

@@YTPartyTonight move to developing world and they already doing that lol

[@YTPartyTonight]

@@Banom7a In the developed world, pedestrians fly using jet packs, but setting that aside, I think this all begs the question, are we in the developing world, the developed world, or the DEVOlving world?

[@chengong388]

If cars are the minority and bicycles are the majority, yes cars should drive in the dirt.

[@chillin_like_bob_dillan6499]

Not only is the sidewalk for walking, half the time they’re tiny, in horrible condition, or non-existent

[@joelv4495]

In Tennessee the sidewalks are prone to disappear entirely without warning.

[@FullLengthInterstates]

sidewalks are more likely to be neglected if they are compliance sidewalks only used by the occasional jogger.

[@ICE0124]

As someone who lives near a stroad you also have the sidewalks raised at least where i live by about 6 inches maybe. But there is cutouts for cars so when biking on it you have constant bumps on the sidewalk that go up and down like every 15 meters like its one of those bike pump tracks. Speaking of condition i commonly see trees that break sidewalks in half and leave a massive bump in it which would 100% not be acceptable on a bike path or road but for a sidewalk it could be fine because people can just walk over it until it gets fixed but with bikes or cars that would need to be fixed instantly. But we are supposed to bike on sidewalks where those things dont need to get fixed as easily. Also in my sidewalk example im talking about a very low traffic bike line on the side of a stroad.

[@HweolRidda]

​@@joelv4495I visit Houston quite a bit. There it is hard to walk on the sidewalk, let alone bike. Tree roots, broken cement, narrow, puddles, ending for no reason, cars parked across them, etc etc. To be fair, the roads are badly designed and built too, even if sidewalks are worse. Apparently Texas is a 3rd world country with no money for infrastructure.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Many sidewalks are narrow and I and people have had to get on the road to let others pass anyways. Ideally, we want many people commuting by walking and cycling like crowds in the Netherlands. No way they would all fit on narrow North American sidewalks.

[@TheSpearkan]

Motorists: Just cycle on the footpath! Pedestrians: Just cycle on the road!

[@hugosantana7253]

Then, just ahead, there is a bike lane with pedestrians obliviously walking and cars parked just because.

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

@@hugosantana7253 Don't forget the sidewalk with cars parked on it!

[@GiarcraiGO]

Former resident of a large city, now living in the country. I used to take the bus and walk regularly, but not bike. Even in area's with bike lanes, they weren't used properly, and there seem to be no enforcement against their poor behavior. Riders would often be on the wrong side, going in the wrong direction or on the side walk next to the bike lane. Rarely ever stopping at intersections, regardless if there was a stop light or sign. Licencing and a way to be fined for misuse of the lanes, no different than vehicle drivers, might solve some of these issues.

[@FuncleChuck]

@@GiarcraiGO cyclists are making the decisions necessary for their own safety. Since you literally don’t cycle, you could not possibly begin to understand that.

[@GiarcraiGO]

@@FuncleChuck blame everyone but those responsible for their own actions. So cyclists can break rules for their safety that undermine the safety of pedestrians, and I cant have an opinion? Too often Ive seen cyclists break the rules for "their own safety", while endangering most other people, particularly the elderly with walkers. Biggest hypocrites ever.

[@mattwalker5689]

All the complaints people have about cyclists can also be made about drivers. The difference is that a bicycle hitting you isn’t going to splatter you across the road.

[@hithere5553]

And less likely to get into a collision in the first place, since bikes move at a speed the human mind can comprehend, and you have to have undivided attention on the bike at at all times (or you fall over lol).

[@MrUnl0rd]

Less likely to get in a collision because cyclists are generally much more aware of their surroundings than both drivers and pedestrians.

[@Kkubey]

It might break some bones, though. For the eldery that might mean the end of independence. Can also be through unpredictable behaviour. Locally they are currently searching for a female cyclist who overtook a bus from the wrong side and then abruptly slowed down, causing 2 passengers to be moved to the hospital. The two cyclists who died this month in this city both suddenly switched onto the road without looking, giving the drivers (who were both also extremely young, so likely inexperienced) not enough time to even brake. Everyone needs to be aware they can hurt others at any given time if they aren't aware of their weaknesses. Cars: Very heavy, very fast, usually predictable movements, very inflexible and slow to brake, well protected. Bikes: Rather light, somewhat fast (at least city speed), likely to show unpredictable movements, very flexible and quick to brake, low to no protection. Pedestrians: No additional weight, very slow, moving around however they want in their home zone, slow to react matching their speed, can brake instantly, no protection.

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

Have you ever been hit by a bike? Let me tell you that yes, it is less dangerous than getting hit by a car but the main difference is that a cyclist hitting a pedestrian is dangerous for BOTH while a car hitting a pedestrian is almost exclusively dangerous only for the pedestrian.

[@cajonesalt0191]

@@MrUnl0rd This is flat wrong and you know it. People in general don't pay great attention in traffic. Cyclists are not special unicorns who just Do Better™ that other travelers. I have watched plenty of cyclists ride right through red lights, stop signs, into cars, into pedestrians, etc. etc. etc. that they could have easily avoided if they were paying attention. It's pretty much the same rate of distracted traveling as everyone else. Don't even get me started on the wannabe racers that try to ride lines as flat out fast as they can on *foot paths* and just ride right into people because they are hyper-focused on pretending to be in Tour de France. The only travelers that, as a group, consistently pay attention to their surroundings are women who jog at night.

[@foxgloved8922]

My grandma got ticketed many times for riding on sidewalks when the road was unsafe, but she said the tickets were always dropped when she showed up to court. She also did a ton of advocacy for bike lanes and greenway development in Oregon. She was a legend (,:

[@joyceonthego8317]

It's illegal to ride on sidewalks here, too. That point, alone, is why law-abiding bicyclists don't ride on sidewalks. And I'm sure your grandma was a lot fitter than many of her cohort because she rode her bike.

[@foxgloved8922]

@ yes, she lived to be 89 and was biking up until the last two years!

[@kreativwiebetonblock1327]

Maybe there should be a speed limit on side walks.

[@FullLengthInterstates]

​@larrycamilli9589 cars are orders of magnitudes more dangerous than even the heaviest cyclist on the fastest bike. This is the kind of well intentioned nuance that ends up being very harmful to public interest. If we wanted people to feel safe riding we should legalize sidewalk riding for all - and towns can only petition to ban sidewalk riding on specific streets after protected bike lanes are installed.

[@snowvix8902]

@larrycamilli9589 "The problem is that cyclists on sidewalks regularly kill pedestrians." cite your data. not an anecdote, DATA. give me the number of lethal pedestrian-cyclist accidents per capita. because i know for a fact this isn't a "regular" occurrence.

[@innocentnemesis3519]

Every argument against cycling infrastructure always seems to boil down to “I, as a motorist, feel personally attacked and inconvenienced by the insinuation that I have to pay better attention and share the road.”

[@weatheranddarkness]

10,000% this. This is all of it, this is the entire thing.

[@dantruong2582]

My only problems with cyclists is th 10% that ruin it from everyone else. People who purposely block the raod for no reason. Those that ignore or ignorant of road rules and laws.

[@joyceonthego8317]

Yup. You nailed it. And, this seems to be the santiment of our preemier's rich friends who drive in downtown Toronto.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@joyceonthego8317 Imagine choosing to drive in downtown Toronto? Madness! It was gridlock decades ago because you simply cannot move that many people by car.

[@kurisu7885]

Pretty much, and as said in the video, they'd rather cyclists just go away.

[@photonerd1968]

You can tell the people that post comments about riding on sidewalks neither walk nor bike anywhere. EVER.

[@andywomack3414]

I don't think people who design bike lanes ride bikes.

[@kudosbudo]

I mean i used to bike miles on sidewalks years back on my bmx. I was still doing it 20 years ago. For certain roads between towns i won't go on the road if theres a footpath, its just not safe enough but i also think those footpaths should be shared use. I cycle pretty much every day, average about 13 miles. sometimes i do 20+ miles.

[@Jet-ij9zc]

I spent pretty much all of my childhood and teenage years biking on the sidewalk. It's perfectly fine if you're not larping as a tour de France participant

[@wyhesggifrid]

@@andywomack3414 it depends where you live, dutch designers certainly do. my city designers most certainly dont seen that they only know about painted gutter lanes :/

[@Zectifin]

I have. nobody uses the sidewalk in phoenix. its too hot, so I just use my bike on it.

[@szszg]

Roads have been part of humanity for thousands of years. Then, about 50-70 years ago, someone thought it was better to reserve them exclusively for metal boxes.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

I think City Beautiful has a video on how cars stole the roads. Partly because of lobbying and propaganda from the auto industry. Another reason was the military industrial complex of wanting wide roads all around America for tanks to be able to drive through. Even back then many people couldn't afford animals to commute with and walked and built walkable cities. Even the bike was just invented in 1817. And when something is invented it takes awhile for it to become widespread or affordable too.

[@gyroninjamodder]

There is demand for roads for cars therefore roads are developed to accommodate future demand for roads for cars. It wasn't an arbitrary choice.

[@Coromi1]

Building empty roads and highways actually had been a deliberate choice to get car traffic started. (And to move tanks and troops)

[@ottifantiwaalkes9289]

I think that came naturally since the metal box is danger. It's a projectile in some ways.

[@tychovw]

@@gyroninjamodder There was barely any demand for cars until car manufacturers started lobbying and spreading propaganda

[@E11or]

That people really dont get that separation of traffic is safer and more efficient is crazy

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Yeah, it's weird and counterproductive how drivers complain about cyclists on the roads but won't give them bike paths to get them out of the way of drivers. They also fight against urbanism because they say how "no one wants to walk, bike, or take public transit" in car centric countries, but also say "people can do those things so urban activists should be quiet and stop whining".

[@E11or]

@@user-gu9yq5sj7c people romanticize driving so much. Urbanism and Bike lanes wont take away the small scenic back roads or highway’s across the country. You can have both. But the image in there head is no cars anymore

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@E11or Right, those are disappearing because of a failure to build enough housing nearer to the urban core to facilitate people living in the area. Which is doubly problematic as it doesn't just remove those more enjoyable drives, but also pushes people to use their cars more in the city due to the lack of funding as the money gets removed from the city to subsidize unsustainable suburban developments.

[@noahd213]

They also don't understand that while they might lose a lane of traffic, bike lanes also remove a ton of cars so commute times often stay the same or even improve

[@16randomcharacters]

We still culturally think of cycling as recreation and exercise, not transportation, that's the core of the problem.

[@archimetropolis]

Same with trains and transit. People think of it more like an amusement park ride than a genuine form of commuting

[@Reshumbox]

Drivers: won't somebody please think of the drivers? Everyone else: they have been, almost exclusively for over 70 years.

[@connorgrynol9021]

“When someone is accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression” I feel that this rings true here.

[@Reshumbox]

@@connorgrynol9021 precisely

[@benjaminhigham3624]

@@connorgrynol9021that’s how I feel about Christian Nationalism in the US right now.

[@connorgrynol9021]

@ yeah, the US has some pretty wild laws that protect parents from negligence if their child dies from a preventable health condition _if_ the parents neglected their child for religious reasons. In Australia, a church collectively rejected a 9 year old girl’s diabetic problem. She died and most of the church along with the parents were held criminally responsible. In the US, the exact same thing could happen but the families could get away with it. Truly, there is no group more privileged than American Christianity.

[@carpediem44]

More like 120 years. The automobile/car has been prioritized for us transportation for almost 120 years.

[@wilfstor3078]

It's a slow burning form of rage bait, they are trying to remove bike lanes and tell us to ride on the sidewalk, so they can scream at us for being a hazard to them when we pass them A never ending cycle.

[@akiraakiraakiraakira]

it is like that. the karen overtaking me at 1 foot distance in her SUV while screaming "get out of the road" is the same woman who has her unleashed dog run at me and bark when i use the gravel path next to the road

[@exDivinityFPS]

@@akiraakiraakiraakira Out here they can get into trouble for unleashed dogs. Having been attacked more than once, I don't hesitate to call the police and get them involved. It's a risk inherent to cycling in some areas, so it never hurts to have something on your person to defend yourself from doggos either.

[@cycleyyz]

In North America, riding on the sidewalk is often more dangerous at intersections (regardless of legality) than riding on the road - bike lane or not. Those mixed use paths that replace sidewalks have the same issue. A teen was killed in Ajax on one recently. Drivers don't anticipate faster-than-walking traffic in such areas. The "sidewalk MUPs" need fewer intersections or significant treatment at intersections for them to work.

[@The_Hagseed]

Single rider in a car taking up 30sq feet of space while talking on their phone and not using turn signals- "Bike lanes are dangerous and take up too much space!"

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

The irony of drivers with powerful huge cars that can be used as deadly weapons calling bike lanes more dangerous than themselves and their car centric ways.

[@jackoff1826]

If the street was made to accommodate vehicles in the first place, then yes, that driver is right.

[@sirjmo]

​@jackoff1826 streets are not supposed to be roads. Stroads are a horrible american invention, taking the worst parts of both streets and roads making them hostile environments to anything but the biggest vehicles.

[@paulgoff5068]

30 square feet? I have the 2nd smallest Toyota, its about 75 sq ft, and it's nowhere near the size of most North American cars. 🙂

[@jackoff1826]

@@sirjmo those motor vehiclists are the ones paying the big gas tax to pay for those streets. Let me know when the bicyclists are going to fork out the same amounts of money to pay themselves too.

[@eaar]

Its illegal to bike on the sidewalk for adults in my country, they want you to ride in the traffic with the card and the cars complain. You ride on the paths and people complain too, bike paths are rare and inconsistent. It sucks

[@sggoodri]

The most important reason cyclists should avoid sidewalk bicycling is that it increases the likelihood of collisions with motorists. In urban areas the vast majority of car-bike crashes occur at intersections and driveways; sidewalk bicycling increases the probability of collision by 2 to 10 times depending on which study you read and the bicyclist’s direction of travel. In my city, the most common type of car-bike crash is a turning driver striking a bicyclist who was riding on the sidewalk or entering a crosswalk from the sidewalk.

[@gabithemagyar]

I am an old fogey now, but I was taught in school years ago that if you are riding a bike on a sidewalk and come up to a crosswalk you should dismount to cross the intersection. I still do that when cycling. It makes sense. A car driver making a turn has many things to look for when turning, from all directions. It's only sensible to make yourself visible and not speed through an intersection faster than pedestrians in the crosswalk.

[@maciejstachowski183]

Should you avoid cycling paths as well? Because at least here, they usually intersect the road alongside sidewalks.

[@tinyfreckle]

Can confirm I have been hit by a car coming out of a driveway while I was on the footpath AND by a car turning at an intersection while I was riding on the road (I was going straight and had right of way, he was busy checking for on coming cars and not looking where he was turning). We literally can't win either way.

[@sggoodri]

@@maciejstachowski183the more frequent the driveways and intersections, the worse sidepaths can be for safety. There are some sidepaths with very low junction density that I will ride to avoid riding in the shared lanes of a high speed highway, and there are other bike paths that run beside low speed urban streets with lots of junctions, in which case I usually stick with the roadway.

[@sggoodri]

@@gabithemagyar To add insult to injury, a cyclist rolling in a crosswalk when they are hit will often be assigned blame (because they are not walking) and will be unable to collect damages for their injuries. This is a frequent occurrence here in North Carolina due to how our traffic and contributory negligence laws are written. Sidewalks and crosswalks are not designed for bicycling speeds and motorists are not conditioned to look for traffic approaching at speed from sidewalks. Just walking on sidewalks and crosswalks in North America is already dangerous enough due to poor driver behavior at crosswalks.

[@crowmob-yo6ry]

Yesterday I had some maniac in a jeep SUV give me a dangerously close "punishment pass" and then run a red light. This came after I saw several drivers driving in bike lanes. Car-addicted suburbanites are the most selfish, impatient, entitled people.

[@e.458]

I don't think there are more selfish or entitled people in any of the groups, you can find a-hole among drivers, cyclists and pedestrians. However, since you're safest and "most powerful" in a car when it comes to encounters between those three, drivers feel more free to let their a-holiness show. Cyclists and pedestrians will be more careful around cars since they recognise that they'll end up being worst off in a conflict.

[@JustClaude13]

How can they drive in the bike lane, with all those parked cars?

[@ChristopherRayMiller]

@@JustClaude13Oh, they manage!

[@crinsombone5380]

​@@e.458 I seen people who are normally chill turn into angry a holes when driving. It's definitely something about driving that does something to people's mentality

[@Kekatronic]

bike lanes in suburbia are just for show, they're death traps

[@BlacqueJacqueShellacque_]

Angry motorist: I once got stuck behind a cyclist on the road and it caused me a 15 second delay!!! It was the most horrible thing that ever happened to me!!

[@EzraM5]

Seriously though, even as another motorist, I find it absolutely insane when people rush past me if I'm going the speed limit, as if there isn't a stop light not 2 minutes away from us...

[@crash.override]

I think slowing from 25 mph to 8 mph just triggers something in our lizard brains. You gotta actively quell it, but other drivers don't bother.

[@qualicumwilson5168]

You were lucky, where I live we do not do flat well. Far too often a biker is in the middle of the only car lane, slowly going up hill. The result is quite often a screeching brake as a car comes over a nearby hill and tries to decelerate from 60 or 80 kph to 5 kph in 40 meters. Accidents happen because a 5pkm bike just can not go onto the gravel edge and must maintain his "rights".

[@s0nicfreak]

​@@qualicumwilson5168 You spelled "accidents happen because drivers go too fast to see ahead and slow down in time" wrong.

[@mikeemmons1079]

Well, I did make a line of traffic follow me at 15 mph for about 2-3 minutes. They should have been mad at the car right behind me, for nearly killing a mum with a stroller. Cuz he was in the wrong lane and made his turn regardless. He did park and get out of his car, realised my tiny bike [jetson bolt, rebuilt lol] is an optical illusion. Then got back in his car.

[@kacperwoch4368]

In my city they almost always cut the bikelanes out of sidewalks and yet the drivers complain like something was taken from them.

[@Uouttooo]

Another false statement! Which city? You do know there are quazillion cities around the globe, right?

[@nicename29]

@@Uouttooo "In my city" 😭can you not read. you just contradicted yourself

[@Uouttooo]

@@nicename29 My question still stands. Which city?

[@hiasp3333]

In Germany we say: "Gute Rad-Infrastruktur braucht keine Benutzungspflicht." Translating into: Good bike infrastructure will also be used where it is not compulsory to do so.

[@Alina_Schmidt]

Angry anti-bike people: Those pesky cyclists never follow any traffic rules. That is so dangerous. Cycling should be banned. Also angry anti-bike people: Why won’t cyclists break the laws and endanger those pesky pedestrians and ride on the sidewalk? Cycling on the street should be banned.

[@MichaelSheaAudio]

Not only that, drivers don't follow traffic laws. I often get tailgated and sometimes illegally passed for driving the speed limit. Most people roll through stop signs. People don't signal, or if they do, it's after they've already begun the movement so it's useless at that point. Drivers can't even follow the rules themselves, so why do they care that cyclists don't follow the rules? Cyclists not following rules (like going through a red light) is only really a danger to themselves, but drivers not following rules is a danger to everyone.

[@hiasp3333]

Also them: 1. When a cyclist is in front of me, I try to coerce him to change on the bike lane right there (with poor quality anyway) 2. Parking on this bike lane to be closer to the post office door is completely okay.

[@jmcminn1076]

Not that I am saying bikes *should* be on the sidewalk, but it actually is not illegal everywhere. Where I live, normal bikes and even up to class 2 electric bikes are legal on sidewalks except in a few “downtown” shopping boutique locations. But yeah, as someone who rides pedal/electric bikes and has a motorcycle license but not a car license, I concur: entitled car driver are the worst and the dismissive “ride on the sidewalk” is a terrible idea/take.

[@maskedmallard537]

@jmcminn1076 In NYC, it's legal only for children under 14. A cop actually stopped me on the sidewalk when I had already dismounted to go to a store when I was a kid and asked me how old I was and what year I was born, and my brain shortcircuited for a moment before I came up with the right year, because, you know, cop. Was not disturbing anyone, wide sidewalk, nearly nobody else on it, and had already dismounted. But this cop felt it was more productive to grill a child bicyclist than to enforce more important traffic laws, like speeding on the street behind us. 🙄

[@thorn6809]

It's seems as if car users never use bikes.

[@mipiism]

Dutch guy here, who has only read the title: WHAT???😮

[@MLWJ1993]

I know right, I like our infrastructure having all 3 of those available the majority of the time 😂

[@SnowlyLika]

As a fellow European, same

[@gabe6646]

Where I live in Ontario, bike lanes begin and end at random places, you'll be in the bike lane on one side of an intersection, then when you cross there's nothing to go to on the other side so you have to join traffic 😂. They started building newer and wider ones last year so we're at least moving in the right direction.

[@amacot656]

As a troll, that live in canada... Keep you safer road and better urbanist out of my damn country! (i trully wish we could adapt your design to our climate and existing infrastructures)

[@RoundShades]

We live in 1950s cities here. Nothing's changed, 8 Lane highways and nothing for foot or bicycle.

[@willardSpirit]

Well a sidewalk is meant for uh ... walking? Hence the -walk in sidewalk 😮

[@baffinsansterre]

Then we need sidebike/bikelane.

[@lws7394]

What if it isn't used for walking anyway , as most sidewalks along stroads ? Not in towncentres of course , but in quiet neighbourhoods its well possible. I had that in Finland .. But of course roads/stroads/stteets should have separate 6ft bikepaths , or be low traffic with low speeds facilities..

[@bencheevers6693]

That doesn't quite work out for parkway and driveway through

[@KCH55]

​@@bencheevers6693 Yes English is funny.

[@Fenthule]

That's much too logical for the carbrains.

[@ididntknowicouldchangethis]

where i live, people walk in the bike lanes and act like its your fault when you nearly hit them when they didnt look before crossing where they arent supposed

[@deathlessgamer]

Where I live there are almost zero actual bike Lanes, and I am not about to deal with 2-ton death machines on my slow bike. I don't care if it's "illegal", I have to ride on the sidewalk for my own safety.

[@NoNotThatPaul]

Where I live, in Mississauga, people routinely drive through and in painted bike lanes, like they don't know what they are and also don't know that they're not permitted to cross a solid white line.

[@James_Knott]

There's a school near my home where the parents think bike lanes are for parking!

[@Nick-o-time]

​@@James_Knottthis is everywhere.

[@Dionysus626-p8p]

@James_Knott I've experienced this as well, but often there isn't enough space in the parking lot, and it's not really a problem for me as a cyclist. Speed limits around schools are low enough that it's actually completely fine to just use the road until you're past the area.

[@James_Knott]

@@Dionysus626-p8p Why are there so many parents bringing their kids to school? When I was a kid, we'd be embarrassed if our parents did that. On top of that, some make U turns in an area where they're prohibited and not careful when entering the road.

[@ditch3827]

The study "Cycling Injury Risk in London: Impacts of Road Characteristics and Infrastructure" showed that painted cycle lanes are dangerous as they increase injuries to cyclists by 34%. Segregated cycle lanes reduced injuries by 40-65%.

[@momentomori1747]

I wish they would segregate the bike lanes where I live. Almost every bike that uses them rides so close to the line that part of their bike is also in the car lane, even though they have the entire bike lane to themselves. With how oblivious car drivers are with veering into or too close to the bike lanes, it's only a matter of time until someone gets hurt.

[@aerob1033]

Great overview of the issues with bikes and pedestrians sharing sidewalks. My city uses a fair number of these shared path "sidewalks" and I wanted to add my observations of where I think they work and where they don't. I think they only work well at all when the sidewalk is very wide (at least 3-4 meters or 10-13 feet). They work poorly in a "stroad" environment where there are many driveways/curb cuts into parking lots because they create too many dangerous conflict points with turning cars. They also work poorly when foot traffic is high, like in an urban main street kind of scenario. They work fairly well alongside arterial roads with few intersections/conflict points and low-to-medium foot traffic.

[@kai_v_k]

Maybe an addition from Germany: they also tend to work okay as connections between villages or cities when they run alongside more busy highways (mostly two lane), however, they should be at least three meters wide if not a bit more to allow for passing. I agree, inside cities the travel volumes of bikes and pedestrians are just too high that they could work well without major conflicts between pedestrians and cyclists. Especially when the cycling/pedestiran traffic volumes increase over the years, those multi-use pathways can quickly turn from a viable option to an annoyance for cyclists and pedestrians.

[@Padtedesco]

Rule of thumb. If the main movement depends on something walking, sidewalks. If the main movement depends on something rolling, roads.

[@soonny002]

"Get TF off the road! This is MY ROAD and I ain't sharing!" Truck said to Lorry. Lorry said to van. Van said to sedan. Sedan said to motorcycle. Motorcycle said to scooter. Scooter said to bicycle. Bicycle said to skateboard. Skateboard said to pedestrian. Pedestrian said to stray dogs. Feel free to expand.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

"Choo choo motherfucker" said the train.

[@Alex-od7nl]

The argument that bikes should use sidewalks is not in good faith. Most likely it is coming from someone who lives in suburbs and does not understand how impractical cars are in the city.

[@connorgrynol9021]

Yeah, I lived in a suburban neighbourhood for a while. Biking on the sidewalk or using the road were both fine. I preferred the sidewalk though because there wasn’t a ton of foot traffic and I feel unsafe when a car is coming up behind me. The fact that drivers are prone to not registering motorcycles when driving makes me feel like they’d do the same to bicycles.

[@chrisgraham2904]

LOL If "cars are impractical in the city", then the traffic infrastructure for cars in the city needs to be improved. You probably don't understand that the vast majority of cars & trucks operating in the downtown core of major cities are necessary to conduct business. Very few people are using a car to commute to their downtown office and pay $50 dollars per day for parking. Motor vehicles operating in the city are vital to the economy. Many millions of tons to goods get delivered to city locations and get picked-up from the downtown cores every day. Thousands of trades people and technicians carry heavy specialized tools and equipment for their professions. Taxi, Uber and multiple small delivery services access locations that are not readily serviced by public transit. Emergency vehicles are abundant and vital that they must have fast and efficient access throughout the downtown core. Toronto, as an example, is experiencing an ongoing construction boom of high rise commercial and condominium towers requiring that huge construction equipment, dump trucks, cement mixers and cranes to navigate Toronto streets to their destination. Yes, the downtown core is a hostile environment for any type of vehicle attempting to navigate the maze, but particularly hostile to a person pedaling a metal frame with two wheels. If public transit is available to reach your downtown destination, then leave your bicycle, or your car at home.

[@mindstalk]

@@chrisgraham2904 "then the traffic infrastructure for cars in the city needs to be improved." Nope. At the population densities of a decent city, it is geometrically impossible for everyone to be driving conveniently. There simply isn't space. "the vast majority of cars... are necessary" Nope. Lots of private cars still, outside of maybe Manhattan or Tokyo. "Very few people are using a car to commute to their downtown office " For this to be true, most commuters would have to be taking public transit instead of driving. Which means that... cars are impractical for them, the condition that you start out claiming requires improved infrastructure.

[@yocobicus]

@@connorgrynol9021 Yep. suburban neighborhood's within the US are likely to be 35mph to 45mph and dimly lit in some areas. which have little to no foot traffic. That is why I support 6ft to 8ft wide blacktop nature paths as a better option then adding painted bike lane. That any car turning right will not check the bike lane before wanting to turn right.

[@AbrahamCasillas-t3o]

Cars aren't good for anything other than hauling a good amount of supplies (which is what we call trucks or semis).

[@vaska00762]

In many parts of Europe, it's also illegal to cycle on pedestrian paths, unless they're explicitly signposted to allow it. The reason it happened was due to early cycling advocate in the late 19th century arguing that bicycles were too dangerous to share space with pedestrians and that the road was the only suitable space for the bicycle. Those early cycling advocates didn't anticipate the car boom 50-60 years later. Instead, they probably only ever encountered an early car, horses or in some instances, trams. It's rarely enforced by police, but if you ever have an incident, then you'll probably be found liable in a civil case, or guilty in a criminal case if, you cycling on the pedestrian path, causes injury or even death.

[@Alina_Schmidt]

It‘s not wrong that cycling on the sidewalk is dangerous, especially for pedestrians. But it isn‘t so safe for cycling all the time either. At intersections cars would be more likely to cross your lane, making crashes more likely I’d guess. Drivers are also not encouraged to think of you. There can also legal unsafety for cyclists, like in the european country I live: If you cross a street by bike on the sidewalk and a car hits you, you‘ll be at fault if you happened to go in the opposite direction of the bike path or always on the sidewalk. Even though the driver would be liable without question if they hit a pedestrian coming from the same direction.

[@Telamon8]

The same is true in many parts of the US. Here in Las Vegas, it is entirely illegal to cycle on the sidewalk, no exceptions; the rule is almost-never enforced, but that's up to the disscretion of the cops on patrol.

[@barryrobbins7694]

In North America, the first modern roads were literally build for bicycles. Early bicyclists were wealthy and influential. When cars were invented, most of them became drivers.

[@steveschurr5967]

In California, kids can ride on the sidewalk but it is illegal for adults. As a practical matter, law enforcement usually ignore someone obviously elderly, although it does remain illegal and you can be cited.

[@AnotherDuck]

Yeah, here in Sweden it's illegal to cycle on the sidewalk, unless marked. We also have asphalt sidewalks, not concrete ones. At the same time, cycling on the streets is safer, since drivers are generally more aware of cyclists than what I'm led to believe about America. Of course, that depends on the size of the street. But we do have good cycling networks in a lot of cities. In Stockholm it's a bit worse in the centre, mostly because there are a lot of old streets that haven't been upgraded, or bikes are meant to take other routes. In the suburbs there's an extensive network of paths for pedestrians and cyclists, so there's rarely a problem there.

[@CannedFishFiles]

1:18 guy dismounts to accommodate pedestrian; oh canada, never change

[@jihenrygmail]

If only all bicyclists would do that I wouldn't have an issue with sharing the sidewalk. Unfortunately there are some who won't be courteous. I had someone on a bike tell me to get out of the way earlier this year, while walking on a narrow 1 meter wide sidewalk. I understand why people don't feel safe riding on the road, but if you are going to ride on the sidewalk you have to give way to pedestrians.

[@jolteon345]

It amazes me how much drivers want more space for cars when creating proper infrastructure for bicycles, pedestrians, and/or public transportation accomplishes that by removing drivers from the road. A lot of people in the US don't want to drive but end up being forced to because of a lack of proper infrastructure all around. Making roads more car-friendly also has a tendency to hurt, if not kill off, businesses in downtown areas because people won't feel safe going to them. My (small) city is attempting to get things approved to make it's main road safer for pedestrians and to pretty much revive the downtown center, but the car people are fighting hard because the plan involves going from 4 (sometimes 5 including turning lanes) to 3. If you want more space on the roads, you should also want to remove other drivers from the road. If creating more space on the road only incentivizes other people to drive, then you're getting yourself into a death spiral until the area dies off completely.

[@justcommenting4981]

Riding on sidewalk is generally illegal and people complain about it. There is just general anger at people not using a car.

[@Optopolis]

Pedestrians do feel threatened by bikes riding on narrow sidewalks. As a pedestrian, I've felt threatened, and as someone who rides, I'm certain there have been some people who inadvertently felt concerned I was on the side walk.

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

100% As a pedestrian I sometimes have to turn around and purposely avoid bikes coming my way. It won't kill me, but if I do get hit, it's still going to be pretty painful. It's not a comfortable feeling. Sidewalks are already often narrow as is.

[@NeiyMaritz]

kzbin.infonNHED9XnWmQ you

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

My husband was riding his recumbent in the street one morning, and apparently scared a couple pedestrians on the adjacent sidewalk. At least, he thinks that's why they screamed. LOL. I guess they weren't expecting to see a recumbent.

[@Optopolis]

@EXROBOWIDOW Haha! I was on a normal bike once when I was approaching a pedestrian on a greenway. I said something like, "passing on your left," and the poor person jumped and screamed, clearly did not expect anyone to ride by at that moment. Happened to me another time whe I was passing through a parking lot, and that time, I caught it on camera.

[@matthewshultz8762]

Even on dedicated 12' wide multiuse paths in my area there are always people complaining about cyclists either going too fast, or not announcing passes, vice versa cyclists complain that walkers spread out the whole width of the path and don't keep their dogs on a short leash. MUPs are fine for general recreation but for A to B utility they are not great. It feels like walking on a neighborhood road except all the vehicles are dead silent and pass way closer than cars do.

[@TheFarix2723]

Other excuses I see on the former bird app. Bikes are toys/hobby. Cyclists don't pay taxes (for separate infrastructure) like drivers do. Cyclists are an infinitesimally small minority compared to drivers.

[@LoneHowler]

Yeah there's some weird myth that gas taxes pay for roads. But it's actually property taxes that pays for infrastructure, so bicyclists are indeed paying for roads, sidewalks and bike lanes too just like everyone else

[@kreativwiebetonblock1327]

Bicycles need far less infrastructure than cars. Also they cause much less damage to infrastructure.

[@JoshuaTootell]

I drive two gas guzzlers with two big annual registration fees. I'm paying my taxes to use the bike lane with my bike. I don't know anyone who rides who doesn't also own a car.

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

@@LoneHowler California voters believe that gas taxes should pay for roads. I'm not sure, but I think we have finally required our Legislature to budget the gas tax money exclusively for transportation. But the Legislature has also passed laws requiring more electric vehicles to be sold, and now they're wondering how to make up for the gas taxes that EV drivers don't pay. Don't worry about our Legislators; I'm sure they will come up with a new, "improved" way to make us all pay taxes.

[@matthewshultz8762]

@@LoneHowler Property tax doesn't do the same thing in every US state, where I live for example the property tax primarily goes to schools (75%) with only 2.5% going to city roads directly, our overall property taxes are low in comparison to other states notably Texas (who uses property tax to supplement their lack of state income tax). The majority of our road budget really does come from gas taxes, other things like general bonds and taxes from other industries help out as well as federal funding. But I'm certain that $/mile the cycling infrastructure being built is paid for almost entirely by federal programs and local city tax. Rural areas do not get the bike infrastructure.

[@notright7]

Another way to look at this issue is, for every bike that is on the road, it is one less car on the road that a driver has to deal with.

[@NickCombs]

We recently had a sidewalk cyclist die in our small town. They fell at a corner and were not seen by a driver turning right. Looking at the sidewalk, it's quite narrow, is at the bottom of a hill, and has a pole in the way.

[@musingwithreba9667]

I used to live and work on Eglinton Ave E and I walked the 2.7km to and from, with my dog a lot of the time. And at least twice a week, I'd almost be hit by a cyclist who was using the sidewalk. When I pointed out the shiny new bike lane they should be using, they'd flip me the finger. I emailed CycleTO to plead with them to remind cyclists that is is illegal for adults to be riding their bike on the sidewalk, and they pointed out they "don't like to use the shiny new bike lane, because it's only painted, and it's dangerous "...but it's quite OK for cyclists to endanger the lives of pedestrians and their pets I s'pose 🤬 One day, I was on my way to a CycleTO bike safety seminar at a community centre, and while walking there on the sidewalk, I got clipped by a guy on a bike. 😡 Cyclists need bike lanes. Pedestrians need sidewalks. Cyclists should not be on the sidewalks.

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

Did you consider the person was disabled and fully allowed to bike on the sidewalk? Scares me to see the amount of people in Ontario that have no clue a bike can be and is a mobil aid, therefore can go wherever 1 is allowed. I’d flip you the finger too, what you did sounds pretty rude.

[@musingwithreba9667]

@theepimountainbiker6551 they were not disabled. They were fully capable of riding on the bike lane. Hey, I used to bike as much as possible, but in Toronto, it's just too terrifying (I no longer live there) so I walked mostly and I sold my bike. And no matter how terrified I was to ride on the road, I would never use the sidewalk. That's for pedestrians.

[@ProAvgeek6328]

When I hear people say cyclists must use the sidewalk 99% of the time that person is a driver, having never touched a bicycle in their life and absolutely oblivious to what riding a bicycle is like.

[@grahvis]

Also, probably never walk anywhere, so don't use pavements.

[@ollie2111]

Exactly, they don't know or care how that affects everyone else. For now I don't mind bikers on the sidewalk as long as they are careful when they pass by me & others, but this is only as a bandaid temporary solution while infrastructure is advocated for. Car people are so selfish and wouldn't give up two minutes of their drive even if it meant literally saving hundreds if not tens of thousands of biker & pedestrian lives a year.

[@ProAvgeek6328]

@@ollie2111 Not only are most of them selfish, but ignorant, impatient, aggressive, and plain stupid.

[@logicalfundy]

Also not aware that ebikes are becoming a thing, and in some countries can legally go almost as fast as a moped.

[@jackoff1826]

I'm in the 1% then. When I'm on my bike, on main streets I'm wanting to be on the sidewalk as much as I can. Because I'm not a selfiish prick who thinks streets created for vehicles should accommodate me.

[@PhoenixHen]

0:15 "We've accomodated the delusional long enough" That's so hypocritical

[@baffinsansterre]

Narrow minded ide say.

[@Wurfeln]

Def smooth brained

[@Fenthule]

People like that have a depth of thought that's almost 2D.

[@tbrown5657]

No irony there whatsoever

[@daniely5260]

HUH

[@JM-to9dk]

It’s illegal to cycle on the pavement here in the UK, yet people don’t care and do it all the time. For context, I live in London. Teens ride at speed, tourists zig-zag around on their rented bikes because they don’t know where they are going, food delivery riders are constantly on their phones and almost no one indicates anymore.

[@joyceonthego8317]

Operate a vehicle, whether it's a car or a bike, please stop and pull over to use your phone! Talking and driving at the same time is illegal here in Ontario for cars. I don't know if that also applies to bikes. In any case, our attention needs to be on our driving or our riding.

[@wiiiz3]

i live in toronto. It's illegal here too unless you are under 14.

[@ditch3827]

In London in 2022, 222 cyclist were each fined £100 for riding on the footway.

[@FullLengthInterstates]

good thing the sidewalk bike laws are not enforced. the last thing we want is for them to drive a car

[@peridiusoverlord]

I routinely have to get on the sidewalk during certain stages of my cycling commute because some days drivers routinely try and run me off into them. In those situations I don't pedal nearly as fast if there's people to maneuver around, as do most of the other cyclists I see in these circumstances. It's not a black and white "Oh they're on a bicycle so they must be flagrantly disregarding everyone and everything." That really isn't an option to commute safely by bike. We have to be aware of most everything to not die or eat tarmac for lunch.

[@ionflow1073]

Cars are best suited for long-distance travel, so they really have no place within city limits anyway. It's absurd that we design our cities for cars just so we have to use cars to get around.

[@sir9integra9jr]

A cyclist in my neighborhood recently got shot by an angry driver for cycling on the road (in a low traffic housing area) where he was legally supposed to be. It’s a nightmare out here

[@Orwellian-Purple-Grapes-1984]

Jesus Christ. Crazy. I hope that driver is in jail for a long time.

[@GarryBurgess]

I gave up trying to use my bike after almost getting killed several times on the road. Now I just take my car when I want to go somewhere, and only use a bike on quiet streets near my house for recreation. Canada is biking hateful.

[@carstarsarstenstesenn]

I don't blame you. I ride in Chicago and only take off street paths if I have the option, but sometimes I feel like it's just a disaster waiting to happen. People are crazy out there, all over North America

[@esgee3829]

try the calgary of the usa and you'll see how bad it could be. properly horrific.

[@glenm99]

In BC, we have designated "shared use" roads, which are routes off the main corridors, often through residential areas, which should have lower traffic speeds and volumes, and thus be friendlier for cyclists. They have a sign with a bike, and often text stating "share the road." Try getting on one, though! Within one minute, you'll find yourself aggressively tailgated, honked at, and soon enough passed/cut off/threatened. I've been rear-ended twice by people who absolutely needed to get to the end of the street three seconds faster. The awful thing (other than my two wrecked wheels and elbows) is that if those drivers wanted to get home from work 10 minutes faster, they could have ridden a bike and bypassed all the traffic that they were rushing so recklessly to reach....

[@dcb8531]

Montréal has many areas with safe biking infrastructure; the REV is an example of this. In Montréal, it is possible to use your bike for transportation. Unfortunately, in the suburbs, the same level of infrastructure is usually not available.

[@amdgg1]

The “bike lanes” on the road just aren’t safe enough yet and drivers in my area are too oblivious to notice other cars, let alone bikes and pedestrians. I stick to some of the multi use paths in my area, but I’m fortunate to now live in an area that has those paths.

[@Andizu1]

As a Dutch person.. bicycles on the sidewalk?? Do they want to unalive pedestrians or something? Over here you get a very heavy fine if you use a bicycle on the sidewalk.

[@dandre3K]

Brakes exist…

[@Andizu1]

@dandre3K they do. But it wouldn't be much use for cyclist to use a sidewalk if they need to brake every other second and so most wouldn't. Or imagine a pedestrian coming out a store and both them and the cyclist don't see each other fast enough.. accidents waiting to happen and they will happen. Give each their own lane, simple. It works, just look at the Netherlands and Japan and the UK.

[@dandre3K]

@@Andizu1 No country has 100% bike lane coverage lol braking every few seconds is just a part of moving faster than your legs alone could. I live in a city with 7 hills I can’t take my bike anywhere without constantly braking. Meanwhile literally nobody but the homeless and school kids are walking anywhere.

[@Andizu1]

@dandre3K come visit the Netherlands. You can get everywhere here using a bike. And we don't need to brake every other second either. As for only the homeless and school kids walking over there.. that's because everyone else is too addicted to their cars.

[@austinbaccus]

​@@Andizu1come visit the most insufferable country on earth? No thank you

[@andrewszabo7342]

If there's no bike lane provided and there's a passing lane, I'll take the entire slow lane and make them change lanes to pass... it's better than having 2 cars side by side approach and the right hand car try to barely squeeze past me at 60kmh. It amazes me that these anti cycling people never offer solutions, they simply want bicycles to not exist. Well, bikes aren't going anywhere.

[@Jurjen_Warrel_Ottenhoff]

A large percentage of cyclists are replacing a car. This frees up space for cars. I don't see the problem in using some of that space for cycling infrastructure.

[@ma14.27]

In Austria the law says: If there is a bike lane, it must be used. If there is no bike lane, you can either ride on the sidewalk at sensible speed, or ride on the road. Whatever seems more safe/beneficial to you. There's still no way around building infrastructure.

[@NotUp2Much]

"Use the sidewalk, filthy cyclist!" I shout as I hop the curb in my F-650 SuperYacht Edition on my way to Tim Hortons

[@pr0wnageify]

yeah totally, protected bike lanes are the best. however in the absence of bike lanes, or even if there is a painted gutter, it should be acceptable to cycle on the sidewalk at slow speeds. I think that prohibiting this will discourage people from cycling if they are not comfortable being that close to car traffic. realistically, in North America, people live in areas without many pedestrians because destinations are too far to walk.

[@jonathonalsop2120]

Let’s be real, during rush hours, no car is going to be travelling faster than a bike in urban areas. This is all whining because the motorists know they’re stuck using an inferior mode of transportation and seeing someone live a better life for less than the cost of their insurance embarrasses/enrages them. For the record I don’t ride a bike, but if I lived in a city I would.

[@josephfisher426]

This is generally untrue. I was shooed off a downtown road onto the sidewalk because I couldn't ride 30 mph.

[@BJ-cy1bx]

As a cyclist, I find the biggest waste of money is bike specific Traffic Lights. We don’t have the bike infrastructure like the Netherlands, so the lights are not needed here in Ontario.

[@TwoMenandaCanoe]

I live in Ajax, Ontario near the bottom of Harwood Avenue. Harwood was perfect for cyclists. Many years ago there used to be two lanes of traffic each way separated by a median in the centre. About 10 or more years ago the right lane heading both ways was converted into a bike lane. It was great. The bikes had plenty of room to be safe. The single lane each way was great at calming traffic. Suddenly this year, the town decided to put in a multi-use path on one side, replacing the sidewalk. This is not a bad thing. But what they did next is the dumbest thing ever. They removed the bike lanes on the road portion and returned them to active traffic lane. There was never enough traffic to justify this. The results are yet to be seen, but there is a good chance that cars will now speed more. The road is perfectly straight and that raises the potential for street racing. There is a school on one corner that students will have to cross four lanes of traffic vs two. There will be accidents. And also a good chance that pedestrians using the multi-use path will complain that cyclists are wizzing by.

[@carstarsarstenstesenn]

Yes, "put them on sidewalks" as in put the bike lanes on the sidewalks with an extension of the curb… not that they were implying that 😂

[@justcommenting4981]

Yes! Extend the sidewalk and have it be a bike lane. Nice ELEVATED bike path.

[@kathrineici9811]

I think that would be safest, yes

[@FullLengthInterstates]

Cycling on the sidewalk is an important solution for a town like mine: Narrow streets where eminent domain to widen to add a dedicated bike lane is impossible No parallel route so the street can't be changed to 1 way Suburban development pattern with very few pedestrians. In which case it certainly makes sense to bundle the vulnerable users together on a mixed use sidewalk, rather than asking cyclists to ride in the gutter and hope cars are passing safely.

[@TheGIGACapitalist]

This argument lasts until the cyclist needs to cross the road and then all of a sudden bikes are cars again and shouldn't get to use crosswalks.

[@spark_pigeon]

cyclist are allowed to use crosswalks what do you mean here is a video on dutch style intersections kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJ2koZWugd9ppqM

[@ShowMeThatOne]

My cycling group was yelled at recently, "Get off the sidewalk!" by another cyclist. We were on a multi-use path.

[@theDane70]

I live in Montreal and to answer the question about riding on the sidewalk with pedestrians is no good the same is true for pedestrians walking on the bicycle path, it’s just asking for accidents to happen.

[@pleappleappleap]

Here in New York, riding a bicycle on a sidewalk is illegal.

[@jimlawton4184]

This week a pickup truck turned in front of me at the only fully protected intersection here in London, ON (Dundas and Colborne). It is a combination sidewalk/bike path that is elevated from the roadway. It is also ‘backwards’ in the sense that the bike part of the lane is furthest away from the curb, instead of closest to the street as it usually is. Anyway, the pickup truck that turned in front stopped to yell at me and all I heard was SIDEWALK! So I can only assume they thought I WAS on the sidewalk and were complaining that I should be on the road. When in reality everyone that walks down this pathway to get to the light is actually incorrectly walking on the bike path and not the sidewalk but no one complains about them. So it makes drivers think that it’s a sidewalk when in reality there is a protected bike lane there. I wasn’t even that mad at him because I can understand that they wouldn’t see coming out behind the bus stop at full speed. But in reality they did cut the corner and turned too soon before ensuring it was safe. So all I wanted to do was to make them aware they made a slight mistake and instead they end up literally slamming the brakes to defend their actions to me when I’m already 100m down the road. Sorry Mr Pickup driver, you are perfect and everything you do is perfect and I will never question that again! 😂

[@weatheranddarkness]

The sheer snide arrogance of drivers these days!

[@SaHaRaSquad]

Pickup trucks behave like that with other car drivers too. They're the car drivers of cars.

[@Lunadyne]

Rollerblading is another problematic form of exercise that doesn't really fit in. I don't care what the law is, I consider sidewalks safer in a vehicular environment, though not when there are a lot of pedestrians. Luckily few walk here in the U.S., so it's typically not an issue.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I do roller skiing sometimes and it's also never clear to me if I should be on the sidewalk or the road when there's no bike lanes. And even bike lanes aren't ideal.

[@hlamp]

As a motorist, I like bike lanes a lot because it makes the road more predictable by making a clear division. It also prevents other cars from needing to weave in and out of lanes to pass cyclists which interrupts the flow. I much prefer consistent steady continually moving traffic rather than constant “stop-go”.

[@isimerias]

Incidentally, there has been an actual sidewalk “bike lane” in my neighbourhood for as long as I can remember, and I cannot remember the last time I saw a single cyclist using it. (It quite literally dips and raises every 2-3 metres due to residential driveways just like a regular sidewalk)

[@James_Knott]

What gets me are the idiots who insist on riding on the sidewalk, when there is a bike lane right beside it!

[@isimerias]

@@James_KnottPersonally can’t say I’ve ever seen that happen. That’s quite strange since as far as I can tell, anyone going faster than walking speed prefers the steady flatness of the road instead of the sidewalk (joggers included). We have a road that has a painted bike lane, but no sidewalk was ever added. So pedestrians literally walk their dogs in the middle of the narrow bike lane and it’s completely normalized. Really annoying.

[@James_Knott]

@@isimerias I've seen it many times. It frequently happens on the road beside my condo property, though I have also seen it elsewhere.

[@isimerias]

@@James_Knott By any chance, is the bike lane just a painted lane without any protection from high speed vehicles beside it? That’s a scenario that I can definitely see happening.

[@James_Knott]

@@isimerias Yes.

[@pacificostudios]

Your examples are largely in Eastern Canada and you showed shockingly narrow sidewalks with lots of people walking on them. In the West and Midwestern U.S., sidewalks are often surprisingly wide, like 8 feet (2.4 m) considering the few people that use them. In my town of Oceanside, CA, spurred by the growing popularity of e-bikes, we are now allowed to ride up to 10 MPH on sidewalks. That's reasonable, considering the alternative is often to accommodate drivers going 45 MPH and up passing by on the left.

[@weatheranddarkness]

That's crazy narrow for a "multi use path" situation. And being limited to 10mph is crazy.

[@pacificostudios]

@@weatheranddarkness - I didn't say "multi-use path." I said ordinary sidewalk. For example, the one in front of my home, which parallels a road with 45-55 MPH traffic and receives very light pedestrian use. My home is 2 miles along that road to the nearest rail transit, a DMU train running twice an hour. The official walk score in my neighborhood is 55, which clearly doesn't account for the fact that I live on a hill 250 feet above the river valley, so going to the grocery store is like climbing the stairs of a skyscraper officer tower. Bike score is 13, Transit score is 36.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@pacificostudios you are necessarily making it a multi use path by using it for greater than walking.

[@pacificostudios]

@@weatheranddarkness - It's not designed for multi-use. Multi-use is when a sign expressly says that cyclists and pedestrians have to share it.

[@annoyedok321]

@@pacificostudios Signs cost money and sidewalks are often empty. It's multi-use unless there is a sign stating it isn't in most rural areas.

[@tirvine9102]

More of these motorists should go for a walk sometime. They'll catch a glimpse of what it's like for cyclists on an unprotected road when a reckless cyclist or e-scooter narrowly brushes by at full speed from behind.

[@carpediem44]

These hateful drivers will not understand until they are too old, too disabled, or too vision-impaired to drive. Then, they will finally understand the downside of the car obsession.

[@danieltesfaye8517]

They do and then they call for e scooters to be banned when they are already banned. In the UK they are considering to bring them back but so many motorists are totally against even though they haven’t actually killed anyone. Like the many cars who have killed people waiting at bus stops. Motorists spend all day deflecting their actions onto other people like e scooters and cyclists. When it is proven that cyclists are just as law abiding and the fact that motorists don’t jump as many red lights is because there are many cars in front of them. In addition traffic lights were never designed for bikes in the First place,

[@NoTengoIdeaGuey]

They're middle-aged suburbanites in an SUV; they're not fond of walking, generally.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Car and suburb people won't try walking, cycling, or taking public transit because they know it's unpleasant and unsafe (because of how it's chosen to be built). Yet at the same time selectively won't admit it and go back and forth. Just hypocrisy.

[@bartmannn6717]

Anyone who says this, has not used a bike since they were a kid - and has certainly never walked more than half a block on a sidewalk. It's the most stupid thing I've heard regarding this topic.

[@b33thr33kay]

I would argue that they've never been a pedestrian. How can one not notice that bikes on the sidewalk are dangerous to pedestrians?

[@amdgg1]

Even as a kid, living in an area where there are no sidewalks you learn how dangerous the road can really be as a biker.

[@drill_fiend1097]

Because when they hear the word "bicycle" they only tolerate a 10 yo riding slowly on self-balancing bike or tricycle on sidewalk. These people really think bicycles are old stuff that should be eliminated because of cars. They just have no life outside loafing at couch and riding their oversized suvs to office, munching on fastfoods and watching youtube or tiktok behind wheel. Every inconvenience that makes them pay attention to the road is bad for them.

[@bartmannn6717]

@@drill_fiend1097 yeah. In America, bicycles are perceived as 1. a toy for kids and 2. a form of weird exercise. Not as a means of transport, like in most areas of Europe.

[@nhoj30]

Anyone who says bikes belong on the sidewalk has clearly never been hit by a bike going 40+mph before 😂

[@mrkat8137]

“Omg get off your bike and drive like everyone else” “Omg why is there so much traffic, my city is getting worse”

[@agricola9171]

As an Australian I appreciate you adding the different terms for sidewalk/footpath/pavement at the start.

[@vincentng2392]

Do New Zealanders use footpath too?

[@OhTheUrbanity]

@@vincentng2392 They do, but having three flags under the term felt like too much visually

[@CarlosPopelka-c7e]

Or simply have everyone accept the fact that streets are for buses, bicycles and cars! In urban areas they essentially move at the same speed anyway.

[@sigurjonor4817]

drivers need to stfu about getting space taken away. they already have more than enough and yet it still doesn't work. cars are just dumb

[@stischer47]

I was surprised the first time I saw a bicycle on the sidewalk. I was raised that a bicycle was a non-motorized vehicle and belonged on the street going in the same direction as the traffic. What happened?

[@bengt_axle]

Even in Laval, along the farmland, they are putting in bike lanes. Bike lanes are also being added to areas that lead to schools. Nobody really thinks cyclists should be riding on the sidewalk, except those who want to have more lanes to drive and park for free. Toronto and Ontario are moving backwards by introducing legislation that will remove bike lanes. If you add car lanes, more cars will be present, and then it leads to gridlock, which then in turn causes fewer shoppers to come to the area.

[@dcb8531]

I agree, Laval has been putting in many safe bike and/or multi-use lanes around schools, parks, libraries, and pools. Great idea.

[@Urbanhandyman]

Bicyclists don't have the same rights as car drivers. That's the message.

[@stevecarter8810]

The work GM put in to label non motorists as country bumpkins who need to modernize is still paying off culturally.

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

@@stevecarter8810 And Ford billboards: "Nobody walks in L.A."

[@ErilynOfAnachronos]

How did George Orwell phrase it? "All vehicles are equal, but 4-wheeled vehicles are more equal than others."

[@SanderEvers]

Which is stupid. Says the Dutch government. The road should be designed for the people using it, not just for cars. An area with a lot of cyclists: a wide seperate bikepath + seperate sidewalk. An area with a lot of cars and cyclist. Road and seperate bikepath + sidewalk. An area with slow moving car traffic and a lot of bikes: a cycle street. A rural road with not a lot of traffic: a small cycle lane. A big road for lots of fast moving cars. No cyclists allowed, that's a highway. Usually there is a parallel road / bikepath.

[@PatrickDobak-t7r]

One more bike = one less car. Rather than whine about bikes, please advocate for more and better designed bike paths. Please drive safely and calmly. Arrogant drivers can be dangerous. Watch out for motorcycles too. Meditation might be helpful.

[@jimmyjohnson1870]

I think some people don't see these ideas as a real possibility. Cars have been prevelant for as long as almost everyone has been alive now. They're integral to the running of our society. It's like death and wages. Living in a world without them is hard to imagine.

[@arsen567]

I cannot believe that something like this actually requires clarification, wow.

[@gabithemagyar]

I cycle on the sidewalks in quiet or suburban neighbourhoods if the road does not appear safe and if there is not too much pedestrian traffic. What I notice is that a lot of cyclists no longer slow down and ring a bell or honk a horn before passing a pedestrian going the same direction to warn them that you are coming. 99 percent of the time the pedestrians look back and give me room and I acknowledge them with a "thank you" as I slowly and safely pass them. If there is a large group of pedestrians I dismount and pass them on foot. I was taught to do this in grade school many years ago. Police used to come by once a year and do a cycling safety event where they would go over the rules of the road, techniques to ride safely with courtesy to others and check to see how well you can control your bike (slalom, start/stop, stay between the lines tests etc.) . When did it become "not cool" to have a bell or horn on your bike ?

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

I bike the same with people, no shame in having a bell. I have a 80db electric horn, people love that they can hear it from 50ft away and not right behind them. I also have a bell dangling for bears, people hear that too. Why some cant slow down to pass a person walking is beyond me

[@falsificationism]

Dude YES. Thank you for doing this video. I'm so sick of this lazy argument. THANK YOU THANK YOU!

[@kagreen2k]

Why can’t drivers: take the bus, take the train, get over themselves

[@archimetropolis]

Because they don't have available transit, and if they do, "it's for the poor and criminals"

[@cyrusol]

Over here in Germany it is forbidden for cyclists to use the sidewalk. The fine is 55 to 100 Euro, depending on if something like an accident happened. (Just the part for driving on a sidewalk, the accident itself might be fined in addition to that)

[@BobDeGuerre]

Same where I am in the US (southern Illinois) There are painted bike lanes on some major roads, but they vanish in most residential areas.

[@PRH123]

Although from what I’ve seen in Germany in the past, cycle lanes are actually usually half of the sidewalk, with a painted stripe between the two sides? I read the farhrrad rules and they say that bikes are not allowed on roads, with the only exception of racing type bikes in the daytime?

[@cyrusol]

@@PRH123 The halfs of sidewalks is only for very old bike lanes, no new ones are planned like this and eventually they will cease to exist some day. That lane is also technically not counted as a sidewalk anymore. The remark that bicycles wouldn't be allowed on roads is wrong. They have to use bike lanes if available but if only the street/road and a sidewalk are available have to drive on the street/road.

[@MarioFanGamer659]

@@cyrusol Small correction to your correction: Cyclists only have to cycle on the cycleway if it's signed by a blue round sign. Unsigned cycleways (such as the existence of bicycle pictograms on the ground or a separate surface on the sidewalk) or one marked with an additional road sign (a white rectangle) are optional so you can chose either the road or the sidewalk in that situation.

[@josephhaddakin7095]

​@@BobDeGuerreThere is 1 nice caveat. If a district accepts Federal money for road improvements from DOT, 1 of the stipulations is that they have to add the 'share the road w/bicyclists' sign & also include the 'painted bicycle' in the right hand lane. You're seeing it more often now that areas are accepting Federal funds for road improvements.

[@GloriousSwordHorse]

another good aspect of having split/shared sidewalk with bike lanes instead of painted lanes on a road is that it prevents cars from driving/parking on the bike lane.

[@carpediem44]

In my city, with concrete barriers separating bike lanes from cars on major thoroughfares, a$$holes STILL park in bike lanes.

[@davidjames4915]

Uh, no, no it doesn't. When the Churchill Ave raised bike lanes in Ottawa were installed the combined sidewalk and bike lane width became enough to park vehicles on... and that's exactly what a number of - usually pickup truck - drivers started doing (the bike lanes had of course taken away one lane of on-street parking, so only one side of the road would have parking at any given spot). I've not seen it happen recently so I imagine ticketing had an effect but the design definitely enables something was not happening before (the frequent curb drops for driveways create plenty of access points for cars to drive up onto the bike lane/sidewalk).

[@The18107j]

Another problem with riding on a sidewalk is traffic priority. On the road, a cyclist can pass through unsigned intersections without slowing down, but on a sidewalk, they may need to stop every 100m. Getting up to speed every 300ft is exhausting.

[@caskadestudio]

Oh my god. My friends are starting to get their drivers’ licenses around now, and last week they were having a conversation about how much they hated bikes on the road because it makes them a minute slower, and how they should just ride on the footpath instead. I was the only dissenting voice but I couldn’t come up with anything good on the spot. I have this as material now. Also those one-way, footpath-grade bike lanes seem like a really good idea that I’m surprised I didn’t know about. My city needs some of them lol.

[@timk7073]

Years ago, I used to have people yelling out their car widow at me: "that's what the sidewalk is for!" I still get some hostility or people not paying attention to the road, so I usually just give up and ride the sidewalk when there are a bunch of cars around. Our biking infrastructure is not ideal, as is most of the US (and here in Cincinnati).

[@Truth_Spoken]

Don’t give in. Do the right thing.

[@bluedarkness7125]

@@Truth_Spokennot worth it to put life at risk. Some of cities banned bike on path but I do that since it is more safe than road.

[@sean7456]

Plus, in a lot of places in the US, there are basically no pedestrians and sidewalk riding is legal. I like having the option of using an empty sidewalk if the streets get too fast or busy. That being said the only times I've been hit by a car is when I was on the sidewalk. US drivers literally only pay attention to the road directly in front of them.

[@0xsergy]

@@sean7456Thats exactly why they recommend to stay off sidewalks. Car drivers are blind and won't see you on the sidewalk, most collisions occur here.

[@vadimpetruhanov4150]

Why cant car owners just stay home/use public transport/use bikes or mopeds

[@automagic11]

We need to build stuff for that first but that would be great

[@FerdinandCesarano]

This is the correct answer.

[@superknugs6327]

People on bikes (I'm not going to use the derogatory term for them) really only use the sidewalks on busy stroads that don't have bike lanes. And it sucks. When there is another person on a bike, or (rarely, but still sometimes) a pedestrian, you have to fight over space and run the risk of riding into the road. Sidewalk riding is a desperate alternative and it sucks.

[@ShuckleII]

If you ride a bike on a sidewalk, you'd be better off walking or even jogging, there's too many obstacles, too little reaction time, and too little space to maneuver or even exist. Riding a bike on a sidewalk is not doable, the purpose of riding a bike is to go *PRETTY FAST,* doing exercise, without wasting tons of money or space or causing large danger or polluting the environment. Thus, *people who tell you to use the sidewalk are just telling you to walk or jog, and want to cannibalize your right to ride a bike,* the most valuable method of transportation.

[@vipervidsgamingplus5723]

There's also things like where I lived, $500 for riding on the side walks, but the bike lane was filled with parked cars.

[@lukedeschenes1426]

Great video!

[@ob_dowboosh]

In the Soviet Union people not younger than 14 had to bike on the road with no bike infrastracture but that rule wasn't enforced. But the car availability was lower - to get a car you could buy it if you are a higher-class citizen or you had to wait for years in the queue if you are an ordinary citizen. From the 90's to the early 10's in Ukraine, where I ilve, the rules were the same but the amount of cars has risen dramatically because it was a symbol of a real man to own a car. The car-centric and corrupt development worsened this problem. There even weren't any bus lanes. 4:50 There was no demand for separate bike infrastructure because people believed that it's ok to cycle on the sidewalks and dangerous to do it on the roads. But today many e-scooters and delivery cyclists have appeared, so now it's even forbidden to design a road with no suitable bike infrastructure. And yes, the bus lane where cyclists are allowed is never a suitable bike infrastucture, despite being allowed in 2014 as an experiment. The first bike path in Kyiv appeared only in 2011 near the urban freeway (Bazhana Avenue). It was 1.5 meter wide and one-way and on the both sides. The curbs on the crossings with the roads weren't lowered and there were no standards for bike infrastructure. In 2014 after the nationwide protests the newly elected mayor has created a new bike route from the far-away high-density (9 to 25 floors) Troyeshchina district that doesn't has the subway to advertise himself. In the district the 2-way bike path was painted on the sidewalk and was 2.5 m wide. But on the Soviet 8-lane bridge above the Dnipro river people have to bike on the 2-2.5 m wide sidewalks. These sidewalks have a street light pole every 50 m where you have to yield to the oncoming traffic, including walking pedestrians, so it's not very pleasant to bike there. When the route reaches the right (Western) bank of Kyiv, it becomes a 3 m wide multi-use path with the pretty steep gradient and blind turns to the Upper Kyiv. It's not pleasant to use because people sometimes overspeed on it when they bike down. In 2018 the road standards have been updated. Now the minimal width for a multi-use path is 2.5 m for the 75 per hour per direction traffic. They are built near the bus stops, near the freeways and high-traffic roads and stroads when they claim there is no place for the bike path and cycling on the road in any form is dangerous or too many cars drive this road so they believe the "protected" (indestructable protection isn't allowed on Ukrainian roads) bike lane instead of the car lane will worsen the situation. The car lanes minimal width decreased from 3.75 m to 3 m, so some road markings became redrawn and the space for the 1.5 m bike lane has appeared. 3:45 The minimal width for the sidewalk is 1 m when there are extreme circumstances. The normal width is 2.25 m. The curb must be lowered near the road crossings. The minimal width for the 1-way bike lane or path is 1.5 m (before was 1 m). There are sometimes illegally parked cars on the bike lanes but the problem is that the fine is 340 UAH ($8) and there is not enough parking inspectors and towing. 3:20 The minimal width for the 2-way bike path is 2 m after the road, where the bike path is installed, is repaired. They are now built near freeways and wide roads with a lot of traffic. 2 m 2-way bike paths are not very pleasant to bike on. You can see all stages of bike infrastructure development in Kyiv here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5OyZ52ta5KMhqM It's a bike path near the street leading to the new beltway and along the unfinished beltway. Stage 1 was a painted bike path but it became a multi-use path because it should be possible to walk to the businesses. Stage 2 is a more newly-built bike lane but it becomes a multi-use path on the bridge. Stage 3 was built a year ago with all road markings. There are no crossings for the disabled on the beltway and the beltway is too near to the city so after time passes, it may become an urban freeway. The concrete blocks were used to block the road during the siege

[@MagicjavaGames]

Literally no one is catching me riding on the sidewalk. IMO the best way to bike (at least at in my city of Boston) is pretending you’re a car

[@nicolasmonty3692]

Same in nyc

[@iankravitz5723]

There's another factor, that may explain this. So many drivers are paying more attention to their phones than their driving. With this, the drivers could feel that cyclists are taking space away from them, even when it's not. This makes cycling dangerous. In Florida for example, for over 15 years, the state was rated 11th in car versus bicycle collisions. Mostly due to, you guessed it, cellphones! You're welcome.

[@benjamingeiger]

Florida allows cyclists to ride on the sidewalk... but the city I live in (Winter Haven) prohibits cycling on sidewalks in "business districts" (which is basically anywhere there is a business). And no bike lanes, not even painted bike gutters.

[@stuhennessey9013]

Our carwashing (like green washing) society prioritizes the most comfortable modes of transportation. We have been carwashed to believe people who are sitting comfortably in their cars with the heater or AC on, listening to tunes or on their phones should have uninterrupted flow while the pedestrians and cyclists exposed to the elements should always bow down to the mighty auto

[@AubreyBarnard]

Yep! All these people in their weatherproof, climate-controlled, collision-protected metal boxes on wheels can't be bothered to slow down or otherwise accommodate others in the slightest, nevermind the weather and road conditions the cyclist is facing, or the effort they're putting in, or the personal risks they're taking.

[@MrSunrise-]

It's about status.

[@SweBeach2023]

That's a great way of framing it, and also shows why pedestrians and cyclist always must be prioritized. But this also demands more of us start walking and cycling. If only one out of ten trips are walking or cycling, how much of the available space can we justifiable demand?

[@BossMan-yu1og]

Car Driver: "Why don't you just ride your bike on the sidewalk?" Bicyclist: "Why don't you drive your car on the sidewalk?" Car Driver: "Because it's illegal, slow, bumpy, full of obstacles, and there are pedestrians. Oh, and aren't those sidewalks usually incomplete anyway?" Bicyclist: "Exactly!" *Nods head and cycles away*

[@kathrineici9811]

Bro isn’t going to be getting away from the driver if he’s on a bike lmao

[@archimetropolis]

Ebikes exist

[@GGamer720]

I worry these people were never arguing in good faith anyway, but hey, I hope this opens *someone’s* eyes.

[@weatheranddarkness]

They weren't. It's just self-entitlement.

[@automation7295]

These people just self-entitled Karens.

[@Svid1701D]

I'm usually less annoyed sharing the road with cars than dodging pedestrians walking 3 people wide on a bike path who get startled and dont know what to do when a bike shows up.

[@MelJandric]

I used to live in Toronto, Kingston road on the stretch with wide sidewalk and a scary road with potholes. I biked on the sidewalk, illegally but at least I'm still alive. Now I live in a small town in Europe, here's how this is solved in one of nearby larger cities (cca 1mil population): There is functional public transit. The key word here is _functional_; Driving in the city centre is prohibited; Cycling paths are sometimes on the road and sometimes on the sidewalk. If there's a pedestrian on the path then simple "ding" from the bell will move him/her. Frequently followed by a friendly hand wave or a "sorry". Sometimes cyclists will ride between streetcar tracks, which are ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, not in the middle. Two very critical details: There are very few traffic signals and 4-way stops are unknown. Even simple regular stop signs are rare; Cars MUST stop when either a pedestrians or cyclists approach a crossing!!! That last one is absolutely critical, cyclists don't have to stop every few meters, they simply slow down, cross the street and continue on the other sidewalk or wherever they go!!! First few times I saw that I watched it in disbelief, but it works, nobody has to press the stupid button and wait two minutes for light to change. One car stops, maybe two, cyclist or pedestrian crosses and traffic continues to move. Think about that.