Oil Level Equals 70Horsepower

Changed oil level and it made a big difference in power.
Website: www.wengines.com
Email: [e-mail]

[@yodawunn6700]

BBC's are more sensitive to oil levels even in stock configuration but the longer the stroke, the more difference it makes. 540's can really make a lot of froth in the pan. Really good to see real testing to show just how big a difference. The ultimate oil level test would be to throw a dry sump system on it.

[@FORCFED]

You know what be cool ! When you take pan off put 6 quarts of water in pan and see where level is in pan verse 7 quarts and 8 ??? How it sits in pan ?? Great information sir

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

Here is a running oil level sight gauge idea. Replace he drain plug with a hose barb. Then run clear hose from this hose barb up to the valve cover breather or a catch tank. Then lash the clear hose to the side of the block and pan so it’s not moving around due to vibration. Now you will be able to see the height of the oil in the pan when running at various rpm.

[@tomrose6292]

Now that sounds like a good idea..chk out my lil pick up at old ridge runner race truck

[@YouCantSawSawdust]

Smokey Yunick covered all this horsepower gain, or loss, from oil level and sump design in his early-'80's book, Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets. Old news nowadays.

[@jakeblack4095]

Thanks for this Eric! Some of us really appreciate what you do!

[@edsmachine93]

Nice testing Eric. Maybe you need to run an accumulator. For the safety of your engine. Have a great day.

[@shawnmcatee895]

This is exactly why Smokey Yunick said the perfect wet sump pan would be 12 feet deep. Windage and aeration. Aeration is the oil pressure issue. The aeration is the scary bearing part of this. Bearings dont like foamy oil. The HP was massive Windage. If you've got room and can afford a dry sump system, do it. The oil pump isn't the issue here. Where the oil is, in the pan, in the valley or where ever it is, I run a Stef's "14qt" full length pan with windage screen, tray and 3 trap doors on each side (circle track boat race pan) and I'll only be running 10-11 in it.

[@keithbarron3654]

Dick moroso figured this out back in 70's, he sold Canton-Aviad accumulator to plumb into engine, oil pressure would charge it and remove oil from pan, when, if oil pressure dropped it would back fill oil galleries to maintain pressure, but was claimed to allow HP from reduced windage, other option was deeper sump or side kickouts.

[@TheSargeGX43]

My friend couldn’t make the 6.50 index with his S10 a few years back. 6.54 was about it on a good day so he was gonna sit out a race at WRP. Of course he was running the truck all the way to the full mark with a 7 qt pan, so I suggested he drop it down to 1/2 qt below the qt low mark. Off the trailer he laid down a 6.489 best ever pass. Anyways he wound up beating me in the final of the 6.50 class that night…. That’s what I get for helping out! Good times!

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

Before the final you should have went up to him and said “ Is your motor knocking ?” 😂

[@rapidride2]

Nice display of integrity.

[@danielslocum7169]

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

[@johnsheetz6639]

Your comment section is awesome! A lot of people like me that love the science aspect.

[@kelly811]

Jon Kasse u tube video. He finished second one year in Engine Masters Competition by not very much. Went home and changed oil pan and picked up 30hp. He was kicking himself after that one.

[@MrsSunshine75]

Can’t wait to see oil pan/pump vid! 👍🏻

[@MrBigDeel]

I experienced this on my 540. I was not on the dyno. It was watching the oil pressure gauge while driving it hard. It would bounce around at any rpm over 5,000 going from 60-20 psi. I was lucky to figure it out quickly. Mlidon pan with rear kick outs, hv pump. 6 quarts was the number for my pan that worked.

[@bartpang]

My corvette bracket picked a 10th of a second and 1 mph draining 1 pint.

[@TomBurris-um3hf]

My jet boat has 427 that turns 6k rpm. It has a Dan olson 12qt with windage tray and scraper in it. Anything more than 10qts and it has terrible oil pressure and turns 500 rpm less.

[@Finding_K_Factor]

Stockers and Super Stockers are very aware of oil windage…😃 I run a Milodon pan for a Second Gen Camaro with a kick out, a Titan Sportsman Pump and a Canton Mecca AccuSump. Been toying with idea of adjusting oil level in the pan. Based on your testing I think I will look at doing that this season. My oil pressure now is steady 75 psi throughout the run and through braking. Thank you Eric for showing this!

[@randywl8925]

Add a quart before deleting a quart. 🤔

[@terryenyart5838]

That's typical aeration of the oil. I run 4 quarts on the dyno & may run 4.5 in the car to keep minimum windage/aeration. Good job

[@drcolster]

IMO. small sump for a 540ci BBC..make biggest sump possible to keep the oil away from crank..the correct ammount of oil to keep oil pressure consistant...

[@dougcheesman5527]

As usual.......... Great video Eric!!!!!!!

[@drewsharpe7484]

Good stuff Eric. Wish you would have tried 5.5qt and 6.5qt

[@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions]

While doing the pan tests, also do oil weight test at the same time. The thinner oil may return faster and release the aeration faster. Not an expensive test and it's the best time to varify the pumps/pan affects on the weight differences.

[@mk-xg2kt]

when I build an engine, I decide the oil level it should have. I have the oil pan at the right angle i fill it with water to the right level. ( to the? splash plate).now that I know how much water it was.then when it's time to top up the oil, I pour in that amount. then I put the dip stick in oil and see what level it is. mark the level on the oil dipstick, it will be my maximum level. then I can prime the engine an add for the oil filter. after the first oil change I drive with 1 quarter less oil

[@mikecondoluci53]

man i never thought it would be that big of a difference in hp, thanks for sharing

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

I had a customer with a 385 powered Pinto. The car was built for a SBF originally and when the 385 was swapped in they had to go to a remote filter. After losing a motor he found out that the oil pressure was dropping dramatically at the big end ( 1/4 mile ). Turned out to be the remote filter adapter that screwed onto the block in place of the filter. I tried to “port” the square corners in the adapter to increase flow but nothing helped. The solution was to cut the rack and pinion mounts free and rotate the rack so the steering shaft was not masking the oil filter pad. We then needed a shorty oil filter and one from a Renault LeCar had the same mounting pad as a Ford but the height was only about 3”. Now the oil pressure didn’t vary through the whole run. This isn’t applicable to this video just a heads up.

[@bobirving6052]

Good tip

[@brianholcomb6499]

I wouldn’t be too scared of the oil pressure dropping on decel! Is it not great, absolutely! We had a customer with a 540BBC & it was supercharged, oil pressure would drop like that from 80ish to 10psi! At 1200 runs, he finally brought it back for a freshen up, coated bearings still looked good, especially for a supercharged engine!

[@drivinwithdrew7676]

I run a standard volume high pressure pump on my 383 and had the exact problem valvoline vr1 fixed it but either way it’s 2-3 tenths faster on the dragy when it is low on oil, when I slow down and loose oil pressue I know its time to add a quart, most fast wet sump drag racers now days cut ignition and throw em into neutral due to no oil pressure on decel, killer vid as usual

[@bowtie0069]

I spent time on the dyno with my small block and oil pans/oil levels. With the old "Z28" 6 qt. pan it would vary a lot by changing the level. Switching to a Moroso 7qt. w/passenger side kickout, we found no difference from level changes, BUT, it made 25-27 H.P. more with the kickout. I know of big blocks that have seen 25+ H.P. with either Moroso or Milodon pans with the passenger side kickouts. BTW, I run Moroso standard pressure/standard volume pumps in most of my SBCs.

[@jasonelliott5196]

Lower kick outs or upper ?

[@bowtie0069]

@@jasonelliott5196 upper along the pan rail. Moroso 21017 is what I run on my 69 Nova. Won't clear some chassis, it actually touches my crossmember, but with solid mounts it has survived 18 years so far.

[@jasonelliott5196]

Awesome thanks man. How many qrts do you run ?

[@bowtie0069]

@@jasonelliott5196 Usually 5, sometimes 6 if I'll be driving long distance.

[@johnginnitti4598]

Awesome content Eric, I discovered a similar issue on the dyno.......not nearly that severe though.......

[@GaryWhipple-q6w]

Try a oil accumlater with extra 1 1/2gt this will protect on desellaration

[@bowsertownes]

If you're worried about loss just go drysump and get the vacuum benefits to boot

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

6 to 6.5 qts with oil restrictors being a must into the lifter galley... has been the norm for decades.

[@daveperry6793]

run a small block chevy w/ an older moroso kickuot pan has full tray and scraper can hold 8 qts. oil run 5 quarts w/filter for 5 years now lots of passes-no troubles w/ bearings ya it loses oil pressure on decel-just shut it off stop restart -drive back repeat moroso anti cavitation pump 55 psi at full throttle roller cam oil resrictors that 3 quarts of oil is worth a tenth

[@flinch622]

Add oil and pressure drops? Aeration. One little trick that seems to be a good starting point is [before pan goes on] measure what it takes to get to near top of the baffle - about 1/16" or so. I use a 1 cup measure. That number in hand, add 1/2 quart to accomodate filter, and some volume that stays in the top of the motor when running. That gets a build pretty darn close most cases - maybe play with level up/down one pint and see what changes. In the case of my present car, a full change ["6 quart" pan] likes 5.75.

[@TechnikMeister2]

Runt Pittman had more power than anyone in Nascar by sucking all the oil out of the engine after it had cycled through the cam, main bearings and rocker assemblies. He used a 5 stage dry sump and then a rear axle driven pump to create a negative 13psi inside the engine. In the mid 1990s he had it figured out and RC tried to sabotage the Morgan McLure team anyway they could. That 540 should be capable of 100hp per litre, or 900hp. I think the single 1050 is strangling it.

[@GaryWhipple-q6w]

Add a moroso accumulator and it will help with the drop in op when declaration

[@GaryWhipple-q6w]

The horse power loss is from winding the oil around the crank.just think how much oil that is to reduce the HP that much

[@bobirving6052]

Good stuff. Thanks!

[@petemcpeterson6205]

Im running that same pan with an external pump and ive always ran 9 quarts in it because of the line volume and large external filter. I'm thinking i may try less than that now. Wish me luck! Lol

[@kevinjennische8209]

Hey Eric, have you tried the moroso Accumulator? Holds three quarts. May help Your Camaro?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

No but I should

[@jasonjordan4672]

​@@WeingartnerRacinga Moroso Accumulator will difinatly help the Camaro on decel, ive used a couple sucessfully

[@boharris8179]

Eric I gotta tell you as a plumber I can tell you by using thicker oil just to see a better psi number your killing the hp from parasitic drag. Try chsnging to 10 30 oil. No difference in thr amounts just viscosity. IVE burnt the mains outta couple engins with the heavy stuff. Never had one prob with the thinner stuff...only the gauge dont look as good. There is a reason they run like a stripped ape when there about to blow

[@patrickwendling6759]

Should of went to 5 quarts . 5 quarts is still plenty of oil . We ran as low as 4 and picked up 10 more from 5 but we stay at 5 for insurance

[@chevyrc3623]

That's quite a bit of power on that 540 bbc way more than i thought and wow oil level that's definitely a huge difference

[@jasonelliott5196]

Went through this on my 422 with your heads . Not that your heads had anything to do with it. I have the milodon 315516. If I use anything over 4 qrts of oil . My oil pressure is erratic. When I use 4 qrts 75 psi wide open steady .

[@maxmaxwell7590]

Nice good info I am building a 540 for my C10

[@DavidB7474]

Clarify the rocker arms. This engine uses the XD version? Correct? Comp has two different versions. Comp Ultra pro magnum XD: “The Ultra Pro Magnum™ XD Rocker Arms are engineered from durable 8650 steel” Rated for 1000 pounds of open spring pressure. $557 price. Comp ultra pro magnum: Investment cast 8650 chromemoly body, rayed for 850 pounds open spring pressure. $454 price

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Ultra pro not xd

[@autobodyspecialistsinc.4397]

dry sump ..... done

[@gordongrimes2797]

this is old technology David freiberger did this test when Dinosaurs roamed the earth. Oil is the bege- st horse power robber. in the 80,s I bulit my own oil pan for a SBC it had four quarts total incluiding the filter in a dragster ran 8.50,s 153 mph. never hurt any parts. pressure is over rated takes power to carry 80 lbs if your round track racing sustained RPM then yes drag racing not so much when its built right. just a thought, thanks Eric really injoy your videos

[@robertkeime4907]

Great video

[@rickyfulks889]

How about a stock pump with some nice porting?

[@stormyyoung6344]

I'm curious to what a bigger oil pick up that uses more surface area would do.

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

Eric, I am perplexed. This is a common wet sump issue and shows up during a dyno session fairly frequently. But what your seeing is a very real thing for sure. What I cant understand for the life of me. Is why you did not take another 1.5 litres out for a total of 4.5 Litres and try it again. Even if you cant solve that for the car. Its valuable information that might help decision making when you go to approach the solution. Also, as a suggestion. You can probably get away with three quarts in the pan and an accusump which will look after decel. Seems like a decent engine.🤘

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Because I hadn’t intended to test oil levels. I attended to test manifolds. But when the oil pressure thing happened I ended up testing oil levels.

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

I understand. I dont mean to sound like i am taking a cheap shot. But I really think it would have been good to have taken more oil out and retry. The intake test did become a victim. Sht happens. Ive been there. Good video. Thank you.

[@randywl8925]

Do like Steve Morris and delete the oil pump altogether. 🤣

[@drivinwithdrew7676]

😂 Amazing they made 3 passes like that, I figured it would have been smoked after the first burnout

[@randywl8925]

@@drivinwithdrew7676 Yeah, with that kind of HP, truly amazing.

[@stevenbean9706]

dry sump =power i had a moroso oil accumilator in my s10 id dump 2 quarts of oil if it was a final run and i wanted a bit of extra power cause everything was super smooth and oil got back to the pan super fast .

[@jcnpresser]

Seems like you’d benefit from an oil accumulator for your decel issues, than you could actually test the oil levels safely to see if it picked up on the strip also. Obviously it should, shew, 70 hp!

[@timleonard86]

1st moroso pan I ever bought was a reject wouldn't seal had to send it back and wait 3 mths to get a replacement

[@mikediamond1522]

5qts & lighter wt. Oil.

[@Nova-1977]

I’ve been using a accusump for over 35 years and will never race anything faster than a low 11 second car ever without one . I have a 7 quart pan with 2 in the accusump one in the filter .

[@sweetness34km]

9 qt pan 1 qt filter

[@Nova-1977]

@@sweetness34km the accusump holds two additional qts there is 7 in the pan and the accusump will add and take away what’s needed when the pressure good up or down .

[@andyking9673]

the dynamics the engines see on a dyno arent the same as in a vehicle

[@hankclingingsmith8707]

Great explanation

[@tomrose6292]

It's about 10 Psi a minimum pressure per thousand rpm adequate to maintain the life of an engine?

[@drivinwithdrew7676]

I’ve seen ls motors live a long time with boost, with wayyyy less oil pressure than you would think

[@chrisw5837]

Ever think about an accusump oil accumulator to help with the oil pressure drop on decal?

[@ICONBADGTA]

That's crazy....Oil can do that..

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

On the coast down oil pressure drop. I always shifted into neutral at the finish line. Doesn’t everybody do this except for the knuckleheads with reverse valve bodies ?

[@markgiraldes4062]

So just wondering what pump you like for a street 8 qt. pan and would you use oil restricter’s ? I’m in the 750 hp range ? Awesome video Eric ! 😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@smilsmff]

I have never seen a oil pan filled that was not on engine just to have a look at where the oil fills up to. to get and idea of what heights are etc

[@DavidB7474]

So just a thought, maybe you don’t need to the huge oil pan. Maybe we just need an oil pan that keeps oil around the pickup during driving.

[@bowsertownes]

I'd like to see a dyno test on rod length differences. That'd be neat

[@johnsheetz6639]

I bet rich holdener has what you're looking for. He is a dyno test for almost every question I've ever had.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Engine master did that. I have not and will not. It’s too costly

[@bowsertownes]

Haven't found one yet.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

@@bowsertownesthey literally tested just the rod length in a 477bbc

[@bowsertownes]

@@WeingartnerRacing do you have a link!?

[@waynecera4422]

The pan is not of the capacity that was advertised. Above 4000 RPM the oil looks like a white fluffy coffee.(YES WE DID USE WINDOWS IN THE PAN & VIDEOED IT ). At GM we didnt ever see improvements like this.

[@n2omike]

Any advice for someone forced to deal with a FRONT sump oil pan?

[@thomasjohnson1142]

Shoot ! I'm about to go drop 3 quarts out of my truck ! Wish me luck lmao . On a real note that's insane goes to show everything is important.

[@riccocool]

I thin my oil with mineral spirits as well.

[@rickyfulks889]

Oil getting aerated mayb?

[@shawnmcatee895]

Exactly. Windage and aeration.

[@DaveMcLain]

Big block Chevy is about the worst for this sort of thing. I've seen 30 horsepower at 6000rpm in back to back testing by changing the amount of oil by 2 qts. We just remarked the dipstick and ran the engine 2qts low for years with no problems.

[@flinch622]

A longer crank with more cross section applied to windage does indeed get more twitchy compared to small block. Stroke can do the same in extreme cases to a small block: surface speed of rod journals increases for the same rpm due to larger radius. Maybe why some folks still like building a 377...

[@DaveMcLain]

@@flinch622 On the big Chevy the crankcase is really small for the size of the engine and assembly. The pan rails are close together, more like a small block when compared to other engines like a Ford 460, Pontiac etc. This can make the pan selection really critical. R and Morrison ran an engine on the dyno one time with no oil pan and after that test they built the largest possible oil pan and they were running a dry sump.

[@PerformanceEngines]

I wish David Vizard would comment on this..He'd say " knew that" In NHRA Super Stock and Stock they'll run 2 quarts in the finals.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I’m glad he doesn’t

[@bobirving6052]

Is David the real deal, or is He more about bragging?

[@garlandjones7709]

​@@bobirving6052Vizard is legit. Has some weird theories that catch a lot of flack. They seem to produce though most of the time.

[@bigboreracing356]

Rumor is Vizard interviewed thousands of professional race engine builders/tuners then put the plagiarized information in books and sold them. Never seen nor heard of his engines winning any major championships.

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

Accumulator help the decel

[@echadmiyodea]

5 and 4 ...

[@shadowopsairman1583]

It's almost like running clutch fan vs electric fan

[@bernielehman8288]

In which way clutch fan is better? I just went back to a clutch

[@nova467spanker]

LOL you said the carb is a Dominator Edelbrock 1050 😁

[@7080nik]

Great info!! Seems the pan is a turd if its 8 qt pan. Wonder how many have that pan and running 8 qts? Defnitely want to see the right side kick out test!! A kick out should be used on a 4.25 stroke anyway.

[@GaryWhipple-q6w]

Should have tried it with 5 quarters

[@raykreuger7724]

Is the crank knife edged?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

No

[@donbrutcher4501]

do back to back runs at different oil temps

[@20alphabet]

Easy enough.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I did first run with 8 1/2 quarts 112temp 750hp heated oil to 160 730hp. With 6quarts 120 ish temp 798 160temp 805

[@jims2286]

I bet it is the high volume is a mistake my friend that built engines for over 50 years lhe built stock to Top Fuel engine's would laugh because smallblock and bigblock Chevrolet engine's bypass oil filerter after 2500 RPMs this is a common mistake theres high volume pumps came out in the early 1980,s thsts when people would start having problems

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

Just remembered another point I wanted to make. Does the Titan oil pump sit way down into the sump and therefore displace a lot of oil ? This would raise the oil level even when running less oil than the spec for the pan.

[@hankclingingsmith8707]

Watch the video again . He used a moroso oil pump

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

@@hankclingingsmith8707 He used that oil pan with a Titan pump in the Camaro.

[@stevesolo16]

Wow! I don't have a dyno. How is someone without a one go about checking their motor?

[@JR-The_Godfather_of_Horsepower]

Take it to the track

[@rickyfulks889]

How much did ya mill the heads Eric?

[@bobirving6052]

He says how much in the video. I think it’s 219 to 211.

[@rickyfulks889]

@@bobirving6052 as in thousands of an inch

[@whatchu_talkin_john_willis]

sucking the pan dry isnt a thing, it never has been unless youre dead flat out of oil. its always windage

[@timjones4554]

Why 12.3 compression ratio

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Why not

[@bobirving6052]

Higher than that doesn’t give as much power gains.

[@rickh633]

98 lbs??? wtf do u need 98 lbs for. 70 lbs is plenty. I usually machine the pump gears and housing to 1.1 When testing you should have drained another quart, and used a lighter oil. Get an accumulator for your car or better yet used Nascar dry sump setup

[@shootermcgavin2819]

Wonder what the viewers did to their vehicles after watching this video 😂

[@p0intdk]

You running somewhat loose tolerance to use the 15w50 oil?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I told why I used 15-50 in the video.

[@samstewart4807]

wtf who uses 15/50 oil? and why are you wanting 85 lbs og oil pressure?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Many people. It want planned to be 80lbs. It was in the 60s once the level got right it jumped way up.

[@bigboreracing356]

I use 15w 50 Valvoline VR1in my big blocks. It helps prevent smoking the pushrods and rocker arms and extends valve spring life. Also extends the life of the solid roller lifters as well.

[@randywl8925]

I get the HP difference, but why having more oil decreases pressure leaves me totally baffled...... ok, confused.

[@hankclingingsmith8707]

Oil attaches it self to the crank spinning

[@rodpalm6398]

It's from windage which is a common issue.

[@n2omike]

When oil gets all whipped up by the crank, it gets aerated and turns to foam. Foam doesn't build pressure or lubricate very well.

[@vernonharless3083]

Oil control.

[@randywl8925]

@@rodpalm6398 That would do it. I don't spin my stock 4.3 that fast. Bubbles...... 🎵Tiny bubbles🎶 Thanks.

[@chevyrc3623]

Here is what i don't understand why does to much oil messes up the oil pressure gauge and dramatically lowers oil pressure and you would think it would be the opposite why is that

[@mk-xg2kt]

If I learned correctly (when too much oil). then the crankshaft grabs hold of the oil and lifts it and has it around it and causes oil to become mixed with air and oil return becomes more difficult so you get a low level and air in it = lower pressure

[@chevyrc3623]

@@mk-xg2kt oh got ok thank you so that makes sense now

[@baims8367]

I use 10/30 full synthetic higher end racing oil in a 602 crate and just the lighter oil from 15/50 it suggests picks up significant hp then u take 1 qt out to 7 and even more. Any hp + in a 602-604 is a huge gain against the competition! 💪🏻

[@autonomous_collective]

LCA to high

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Sure

[@brianb8489]

Its a Chevy so 😂😂😂